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View Full Version : What's worse: LeBron continuing to lose in the Finals or The Decision 2.0?



FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 12:11 PM
Hell, both might hurt his legacy at this point but would LeBron continuing to lose in the Finals with a terrible record hurt more or would a new team with a better roster hurt his legacy more?

LA4life24/8
06-08-2017, 12:17 PM
Hell, both might hurt his legacy at this point but would LeBron continuing to lose in the Finals with a terrible record hurt more or would a new team with a better roster hurt his legacy more?

Idk that losing to this current warriors team really hurts his legacy. I mean they arent supposed to win.

Since he brought cleveland a chip i think he has every right to leave there but jumping to another super team or "best situation to win" kinda hurts but not as much after what durant did.

Basically you gotta do anything you can to compete vs the dubbs. They are so fn good and not going anywhere for 4-5 years.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 12:18 PM
If he went to a new team and beat GS it would help. But if he builds a new team and loses it hurts.

Losing to GS isn't going to hurt his legacy unless they lose constant games like last night where he fails to perform down the stretch in close games. But unless GS chokes those games will be few and far between. They'll just rain train anyone for as long as they're together.

LA4life24/8
06-08-2017, 12:18 PM
Heard someone talkin this morning about how the cavs should go out and try to add pg13 somehow balance the scales.

Not sure how they could but that'd be nuts

KnicksorBust
06-08-2017, 12:19 PM
Idk that losing to this current warriors team really hurts his legacy. I mean they arent supposed to win.

Since he brought cleveland a chip i think he has every right to leave there but jumping to another super team or "best situation to win" kinda hurts but not as much after what durant did.

Basically you gotta do anything you can to compete vs the dubbs. They are so fn good and not going anywhere for 4-5 years.

In game 1 he stunk. In game 2 he got scored on like he was James Harden. In game 3 he went ghost in the final minutes. This finals isn't doing his legacy any favors.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 12:21 PM
Heard someone talkin this morning about how the cavs should go out and try to add pg13 somehow balance the scales.

Not sure how they could but that'd be nuts

They can actually do two things:

Love for Cousins. Pelicans loses Cousins for nothing after next season. Why not get Love? They would have given up Hield, Evans, and chump change picks for a three year contract Love.

Irving for PG. I think Pacers would take this quite easily.
Irving+Double T+Shumpert for Wade+Jimmy Butler. I think this makes BOTH teams better. Cavs get Cousins, James, Butler, and Wade while freeing up pieces that didn't work. Slide LeBron at PF. This team beats the Warriors, IMO.

They can do a lot. They just have to work out some trades with Love and Irving. People aren't understanding the contracts Cavs have with Love and Irving are steals in today's league. When guys are getting paid upwards of $26 million, Irving and Love's contract are very good. Since Irving's contract is SO good, you gotta try and ship double T with it or Shump/J.R. so you can free up bad contracts.

The salary also works in every scenario I chose. Cousins is actually only getting paid $17.8 million next season.

WaDe03
06-08-2017, 12:50 PM
They can actually do two things:

Love for Cousins. Pelicans loses Cousins for nothing after next season. Why not get Love? They would have given up Hield, Evans, and chump change picks for a three year contract Love.

Irving for PG. I think Pacers would take this quite easily.
Irving+Double T+Shumpert for Wade+Jimmy Butler. I think this makes BOTH teams better. Cavs get Cousins, James, Butler, and Wade while freeing up pieces that didn't work. Slide LeBron at PF. This team beats the Warriors, IMO.

They can do a lot. They just have to work out some trades with Love and Irving. People aren't understanding the contracts Cavs have with Love and Irving are steals in today's league. When guys are getting paid upwards of $26 million, Irving and Love's contract are very good. Since Irving's contract is SO good, you gotta try and ship double T with it or Shump/J.R. so you can free up bad contracts.

The salary also works in every scenario I chose. Cousins is actually only getting paid $17.8 million next season.

I like where you're going but who's the Cavs PG in that scenario with wade and Butler?

Big Zo
06-08-2017, 01:00 PM
Decision 2.0 already happened when he returned to Cleveland. I don't doubt that he has a third one in store, though.

TrueFan420
06-08-2017, 01:25 PM
They can actually do two things:

Love for Cousins. Pelicans loses Cousins for nothing after next season. Why not get Love? They would have given up Hield, Evans, and chump change picks for a three year contract Love.

Irving for PG. I think Pacers would take this quite easily.
Irving+Double T+Shumpert for Wade+Jimmy Butler. I think this makes BOTH teams better. Cavs get Cousins, James, Butler, and Wade while freeing up pieces that didn't work. Slide LeBron at PF. This team beats the Warriors, IMO.

They can do a lot. They just have to work out some trades with Love and Irving. People aren't understanding the contracts Cavs have with Love and Irving are steals in today's league. When guys are getting paid upwards of $26 million, Irving and Love's contract are very good. Since Irving's contract is SO good, you gotta try and ship double T with it or Shump/J.R. so you can free up bad contracts.

The salary also works in every scenario I chose. Cousins is actually only getting paid $17.8 million next season.

Definately was thinking of similar options they had. Only thing is I doubt the Pelicans move cousins so soon after getting him. I think they see how him and AD work and if it doesn't they consider a deal at the deadline. Also depends on if they still want AD as a 4 instead of 5.

With the both the pacers and bulls deal the question becomes do they want to blow it up for picks or rebuild in a different style. If it's the latter both deals make some sense. If it's the former they'll want picks and will look to Boston first.

All good ideas... will be interesting to see how it plays out.

TrueFan420
06-08-2017, 01:26 PM
I like where you're going but who's the Cavs PG in that scenario with wade and Butler?

They'd need to find a 3 & D type and they'd be good

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 01:27 PM
I like where you're going but who's the Cavs PG in that scenario with wade and Butler?

Warriors already proved you don't need a PG. The only issue with this is Wade and Butler can't shoot but you get two guys who I think would provide you better production than Irving+Shump at this point. Shump can't even shoot and Irving has been off this entire series. The key component is obviously Demarcus Cousins here. Love was essentially MIA the entire series. He's rebounding the ball but he can't defend or score. That's not good enough to beat this Warriors team. I don't even like the Wade and Butler move but at this point, you gotta find someone who can guard KD because LeBron can't do it on both ends anymore. A guy like PG or Jimmy Butler would work wonders on the Cavs right now.

TheDish87
06-08-2017, 01:52 PM
They can actually do two things:

Love for Cousins. Pelicans loses Cousins for nothing after next season. Why not get Love? They would have given up Hield, Evans, and chump change picks for a three year contract Love.

Irving for PG. I think Pacers would take this quite easily.
Irving+Double T+Shumpert for Wade+Jimmy Butler. I think this makes BOTH teams better. Cavs get Cousins, James, Butler, and Wade while freeing up pieces that didn't work. Slide LeBron at PF. This team beats the Warriors, IMO.

They can do a lot. They just have to work out some trades with Love and Irving. People aren't understanding the contracts Cavs have with Love and Irving are steals in today's league. When guys are getting paid upwards of $26 million, Irving and Love's contract are very good. Since Irving's contract is SO good, you gotta try and ship double T with it or Shump/J.R. so you can free up bad contracts.

The salary also works in every scenario I chose. Cousins is actually only getting paid $17.8 million next season.

this is ridiculous. these teams are just going giftwrap the Cavs to make them better bcuz James is little *****.

TrueFan420
06-08-2017, 01:58 PM
this is ridiculous. these teams are just going giftwrap the Cavs to make them better bcuz James is little *****.

I mean the first deal is interesting as cousins and AD didn't look like a great fit but I'd want to give them more time.

Pacers could look to move PG cause he's gonna walk. Butler and management don't seem to like eachother. Their all in the realm of possibility. It just depends on what direction the teams want to go in.

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 02:07 PM
Love for Cousins makes sense if you're NO. A stretch 4 with long-term control next to AD instead of another 5 (who did shoot 3 well last year but isn't a sniper like Love).

Kyrie for PG13 makes sense if you're IND. You get a star for long-term rather than an expiring. Basically you just give yourself an extra few years to try and build around Kryie/Turner and then maybe get lucky in the draft and/or FA.

From CLE's side, I'm not sure that's the answer but it's worth a shot. PG13 is a 2 way stud. I don't think Cousins will fit very well as a 3rd option but gotta try it because Love clearly isn't the answer.

Pistons I think want out of Reggie Jackson's contract. JR Smith has less years on it so maybe they go for it.

TT would be a good fit at C in Houston. Maybe trade him for Ryan Anderson - they save a little bit of money and get the rim runner/rebounder who'd be a perfect 5 for D'Antoni.

Jackson
PG13
Lebron
Anderson
Cousins

TheDish87
06-08-2017, 02:45 PM
I mean the first deal is interesting as cousins and AD didn't look like a great fit but I'd want to give them more time.

Pacers could look to move PG cause he's gonna walk. Butler and management don't seem to like eachother. Their all in the realm of possibility. It just depends on what direction the teams want to go in.

there is no way the Cavs are going to end up with Cousins, Wade, Butle/ George. Pulling off Love for Cousins maybe but Cousins is a cancer and not sure he even fits and will command a good chunk more than Love does

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 02:51 PM
Yeah no way the Cavs get Butler for Kyrie. Butler is better, cheaper and signed ofr the same amount of years. There's no benefit to them doing that deal.

Kyrie for PG13 I think they can very well pull off. IND gets an extra year to ride out Turner's development and try to pull something off.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 03:15 PM
Yeah no way the Cavs get Butler for Kyrie. Butler is better, cheaper and signed ofr the same amount of years. There's no benefit to them doing that deal.

Kyrie for PG13 I think they can very well pull off. IND gets an extra year to ride out Turner's development and try to pull something off.

I would say Kyrie is lightyears better than Butler offensively and Butler defensively is better. It comes down to how bad they want to get rid of Butler. Butler has shown frustration with that franchise already and you might get a better version of Kyrie since Kyrie is only 25. And they can also use that to leverage out Wade's contract - which they probably regret doing. Plus, Butler's contract is cheaper by $200,000. That's hardly worth anything. The issue is obviously Robin Lopez. I doubt this trade happens but I would really look into that PG trade. That's something worth considering and I believe it can happen.

TheDish87
06-08-2017, 03:53 PM
no Irving is not lightyears better than Butler on offense but Butler is in fact lightyears better than Irving on D

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 03:59 PM
I think Lebron is going to need to change his game to beat CLE. His blueprint has been to get a partner than can split ISOs with him. Everyone else is a floor spacer. That won't work against GS. They have Klay, Durant and Green. Three elite defensive forces. You can't beat them swapping ISO possessions even with Lebron and Kyrie who might be the 2 best in the game at it.

They really need a coach that's going to start calling actual plays. That's going to make a bigger offensive impact than any talent they add. Just swapping out who's running the ISOs when lebron is tired and the spot up shooters around them isn't going to solve squat.

CLE needs more defenders and more ball/body movement. Lebron needs to adapt to a new game offensively for that to work. He's not going to beat GS playing his way. Doubtful they could ever get the talent to make it work even if they made the scheme switches but they should try.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 04:03 PM
no Irving is not lightyears better than Butler on offense but Butler is in fact lightyears better than Irving on D

You can't name five players better than Kyrie offensively.

DamnGoat
06-08-2017, 04:17 PM
Butler's not a great fit next to LeBron. A significant portion of his offensive game is barreling into the lane and drawing fouls. He's turned into a better 3pt shooter, but not a great one, just a good one. For the most part he lives in the lane and is a good jump shooter inside the arc, but like LeBron, he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Then you add Wade to the scenario (which is where it becomes pretty unrealistic anyway) and they'd have some serious spacing issues with that lineup.

I do think/hope the Bulls trade Butler within the next 2 years, because he has an opt out in 2019 and will probably leave for nothing, but I don't really see Cleveland as a realistic trading partner since they'll likely want a high lottery pick or two.

FlashBolt
06-08-2017, 04:24 PM
Butler's not a great fit next to LeBron. A significant portion of his offensive game is barreling into the lane and drawing fouls. He's turned into a better 3pt shooter, but not a great one, just a good one. For the most part he lives in the lane and is a good jump shooter inside the arc, but like LeBron, he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Then you add Wade to the scenario (which is where it becomes pretty unrealistic anyway) and they'd have some serious spacing issues with that lineup.

I do think/hope the Bulls trade Butler within the next 2 years, because he has an opt out in 2019 and will probably leave for nothing, but I don't really see Cleveland as a realistic trading partner since they'll likely want a high lottery pick or two.

You're thinking about this in a regular season matchup. Finals vs the Warriors is all that matters. Butler on KD, Wade on Thompson, LeBron on Draymond. That's much better than whatever Cavs have going for them now. It's an option. Right now, the issue is clearly Warriors talent and Cavs inability to defend them. They're not outscoring this Warriors team. Cavs had the best offense in terms of efficiency the entire season and they struggle just to keep up. And this thing about LeBron+Butler not being able to mesh is true but we've seen KD+Curry+Klay mesh darn well. Preferably a shooter is good but looking at how this Cavs team is built, any way to get better is what they need to do.

akagiredsuns
06-08-2017, 05:04 PM
If people are going to be GMs in here, at least be realistic. No way in hell can the Cavs get Cousins straight up for just Love. LOL It would take a package deal and possibly a third team to even make it work. Thompson should go too. What a bum. 0pts 4 reb Game 1. 0pts 3 reb in Game 3. $84M of irrelevance. A Love, Thompson, filler & 2nd seems more logical, but I think a 3rd team should take Thompson for picks. Cousins is still in his prime. Had an off year, but should return with a vengeance.

As for Kyrie, I don't know what the hell he was doing the last 5 minutes last night. He clearly does not fit the Cavs system and should get moved. But all this talk of PG13 to Cavs no way. George wants to play for his home team. I see him going to the Lakers this summer in a trade or in February. Pacers not letting him walk away for nothing. While Kyrie may work with IND, Pacers will ask for more than just Kyrie to part with PG. This NBA Draft will be interesting because if 76ers pick one they're likely taking Fox, but may trade him. And Lakers may or may not get Ball. LOL if they package Ball on draft night for PG13 along with maybe Randle and/or Ingram/Clarkson. If Lakers keep Ingram, he would need to get bigger if he were to move to the 4. George is a natural 3. Or Ingram may go to Indiana for Paul George with the guys I mentioned. Time will tell.

WaDe03
06-08-2017, 05:13 PM
If people are going to be GMs in here, at least be realistic. No way in hell can the Cavs get Cousins straight up for just Love. LOL It would take a package deal and possibly a third team to even make it work. Thompson should go too. What a bum. 0pts 4 reb Game 1. 0pts 3 reb in Game 3. $84M of irrelevance. A Love, Thompson, filler & 2nd seems more logical, but I think a 3rd team should take Thompson for picks. Cousins is still in his prime. Had an off year, but should return with a vengeance.

As for Kyrie, I don't know what the hell he was doing the last 5 minutes last night. He clearly does not fit the Cavs system and should get moved. But all this talk of PG13 to Cavs no way. George wants to play for his home team. I see him going to the Lakers this summer in a trade or in February. Pacers not letting him walk away for nothing. While Kyrie may work with IND, Pacers will ask for more than just Kyrie to part with PG. This NBA Draft will be interesting because if 76ers pick one they're likely taking Fox, but may trade him. And Lakers may or may not get Ball. LOL if they package Ball on draft night for PG13 along with maybe Randle and/or Ingram/Clarkson. If Lakers keep Ingram, he would need to get bigger if he were to move to the 4. George is a natural 3. Or Ingram may go to Indiana for Paul George with the guys I mentioned. Time will tell.

Cousins was traded for Buddy Hield......

hugepatsfan
06-08-2017, 05:16 PM
I'd love TT in BOS next to Horford. I'd trade Bradley/Crowder to them for TT and a 2021 unprotected 1st.

CLE does the Love for Cousins deal. BOS signs Hayward.

Kyrie
Bradley/JR
Lebron/Shump
Crowder/RJ
Cousins/Frye

IT/Rozier
Smart/Fultz
Hayward/Brown
Horford
TT/Zizic

It'd be weird to see those teams trade but I like the outcome for both teams.

LOb0
06-08-2017, 05:28 PM
All bets are off with the Warrior team, Bron has to do something drastic to counter it. Leaving after bringing Cleveland a title is fine. If Durant had brought OKC a title no one would've really complained.

LA4life24/8
06-08-2017, 05:37 PM
Well looks like there are quite a few options... might be a crazy summer.

TheDish87
06-08-2017, 09:16 PM
You can't name five players better than Kyrie offensively.

that doesnt make him 'lightyears' better than Butler on that end. you cant name 5 wing denfenders better than Butler.

but KD, Curry, Leonard, Harden, Westbrook, IT

AllBall
06-09-2017, 12:26 PM
Wade can EASILY go to the Cavs. He has a player option and GM Lebron calls the shots in Cleveland.

Bostonjorge
06-10-2017, 06:59 PM
What the refs did last night is much worse

JordansBulls
06-12-2017, 07:50 PM
Losing to GS isn't the issue, the issue would be having lost more finals than won. This is why winning in 2011 and 2014 were important.

Sly Guy
06-12-2017, 11:47 PM
I don't hold this finals loss in any way against lebron. I don't think anyone with any semblance of judgement really could.

FlashBolt
06-12-2017, 11:51 PM
This was the best Finals by a losing player.

zn23
06-13-2017, 12:01 AM
KD proved that he made the right choice. It's hard to win playing with a guy like Westbrook who just looks for his own stats at the detriment of his team.

The GSW are much more unselfish and Curry and Thompson were willing to take a step back to let KD do his thing. It showed.

FlashBolt
06-13-2017, 12:03 AM
KD proved that he made the right choice. It's hard to win playing with a guy like Westbrook who just looks for his own stats at the detriment of his team.

The GSW are much more unselfish and Curry and Thompson were willing to take a step back to let KD do his thing. It showed.

There are many teams he could have went to. It didn't have to be the Warriors.

Hangtime
06-13-2017, 12:06 AM
The only finals loss I hold against Lebron is 2011. Watching Jason Kidd D up Lebron was by far the strangest thing I have ever seen. That performance is forever a black eye on Lebrons great Hall of Fame career.

papipapsmanny
06-13-2017, 12:15 AM
I'm trying to be realistic

Love and a 1st for Markieff Morris and Otto Porter (Sign n trade)

Could role with Irving-Smith-Porter-Lebron-Morris when playing small ball, which would be nasty

J-Relo
06-13-2017, 12:26 AM
Losing to GS isn't the issue, the issue would be having lost more finals than won. This is why winning in 2011 and 2014 were important.

I don't really care about that as long as the player has showed up. C'mon losing in the finals means you reached the finals - that's already a huge accomplishment. When did losing in the conference rounds became better than getting to the finals? Do we count the years of not getting to the finals as the years a player "lost"?

blams
06-13-2017, 12:35 AM
Losing to GS isn't the issue, the issue would be having lost more finals than won. This is why winning in 2011 and 2014 were important.
Making the finals >>>>>missing the finals.

For example 3/8>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3/3

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Raps18-19 Champ
06-13-2017, 12:49 AM
It's better if he doesn't make the finals at all so that "3 and X" doesn't change.

LOb0
06-13-2017, 01:39 AM
I'm really disappointed he allowed his team to go scoreless at the end of game 3. Bron should get blame for 2011, 2014, 2015 (Scoreless game 1 overtime) and this finals.

in the end, he shouldn't get any blame for losing any of those series outside of 2011. Even if he had been better all those teams were better than his. But I will say he surely could have put them in a better position to win had he been scoring the ball late.

Bostonjorge
06-13-2017, 04:05 AM
Double

Bostonjorge
06-13-2017, 04:06 AM
Lebron is the only guy who can't get blame it seems. Yet get credit for doing exactly what he can't get blame for.

GoferKing_
06-13-2017, 08:18 AM
Hell, both might hurt his legacy at this point but would LeBron continuing to lose in the Finals with a terrible record hurt more or would a new team with a better roster hurt his legacy more?

His legacy? He went to Miami creating a superfriends team, this is his legacy.

SirSkyHook
06-13-2017, 09:01 AM
What if Love was traded for a up and coming young guy or for a high draft pick and fillers? None come to mind but I think that's the likely route.

Edit: Changed my mind lol. What about TT and Love for Dwight Howard and some other serviceable piece lol

Scoots
06-13-2017, 09:19 AM
What if Love was traded for a up and coming young guy or for a high draft pick and fillers? None come to mind but I think that's the likely route.

Edit: Changed my mind lol. What about TT and Love for Dwight Howard and some other serviceable piece lol

Please LeBron, make that deal!