PDA

View Full Version : Does Mike Brown deserve another chance?



Twolves88
06-03-2017, 07:45 PM
So for all the praise Luke Walton got during half a regular season coaching a stacked warriors team it only seems to extend that Brown deserves the same if not greater credit for getting the warriors through the playoffs?

Think about it warriors have yet to lose in the playoffs. Walton coached 56 games or so in the regular season. Does Brown deserve more credit then we on PSD are giving him?

If not then why does Walton get praised? What did he really show in his first year with the lakers? Could of Brown coached the lakers to a better record this year if roles were swapped?

Is he someone that could be successful if he had a good offensive assistant with him?

Chapin78
06-03-2017, 08:18 PM
I wouldn't want him as a part of my organization after the police officer pulling him over story. I also don't think he's that good of an overall coach.

More-Than-Most
06-03-2017, 08:43 PM
No... Walton didnt deserve the credit he got either but the lakers bit hard... the players and the system are all in place and almost anybody in the NBA can run with this much talent.... i feel bad for the lakers because of how the walton **** will end.

Walton got praised because of these reasons

Former Laker
Future laker coach
Kobe said he was smart
Former player in general where all players are amazing and know the game until they touch the coaching seat and get exposed.

LOb0
06-03-2017, 08:45 PM
That should be the biggest proof this team is completely broken. Even Mike Brown can win with them.

likemystylez
06-03-2017, 08:57 PM
That should be the biggest proof this team is completely broken. Even Mike Brown can win with them.

what???

Lakers + Giants
06-03-2017, 09:05 PM
If i were to coach the Warriors I'd get a contract too and be hailed as the next great coach @24 years old. Honestly warriors would've won this year with anyone as HC.

Lakers + Giants
06-03-2017, 09:05 PM
what???
He's saying they're way too good

Raps18-19 Champ
06-03-2017, 09:25 PM
Someone will give him a chance but he's not going to be good.

Put him in with Alvin Gentry.

goingfor28
06-03-2017, 10:39 PM
I could coach this GS team. Not hard when you have 2 of the top 3 players in the league and by FAR the most talent of any team.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

hugepatsfan
06-03-2017, 11:04 PM
I could coach this GS team. Not hard when you have 2 of the top 3 players in the league and by FAR the most talent of any team.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I disagree. Think of the scrutiny. There's so much pressure to win because everyone thinks you should. It's probably one of the tougher jobs in sports. If Kerr can't get healthy the Warriors will have a hard time finding someone brave enough to take that job.

LOb0
06-03-2017, 11:08 PM
Someone will give him a chance but he's not going to be good.

Put him in with Alvin Gentry.

Two of the absolute worst.

JasonJohnHorn
06-03-2017, 11:26 PM
He's not a bad coach.

The Cavs were a struggle. It was his first job, and as we have seen with LBJ, the King wants control over the team. Lue is an assistant coach.

In LAL, he never got a chance. He had a lockout shortened season with the same team Phil lost with only older, and then got Howard, who refused to do the pick-and-roll and demanded the ball in the post, and ancient Nash who quickly got injured, and while being forced to implement the corner offense, he got fired a hand full of games into the season.

Then a gutted Cavs squad?

He really hasn't gotten a decent shot.

Seems like he's working well as an assistant, and does very well with players who are willing to listen to him.

LOb0
06-03-2017, 11:39 PM
He's not a bad coach.

The Cavs were a struggle. It was his first job, and as we have seen with LBJ, the King wants control over the team. Lue is an assistant coach.

In LAL, he never got a chance. He had a lockout shortened season with the same team Phil lost with only older, and then got Howard, who refused to do the pick-and-roll and demanded the ball in the post, and ancient Nash who quickly got injured, and while being forced to implement the corner offense, he got fired a hand full of games into the season.

Then a gutted Cavs squad?

He really hasn't gotten a decent shot.

Seems like he's working well as an assistant, and does very well with players who are willing to listen to him.

lol to be wrong that fast.

FlashBolt
06-03-2017, 11:44 PM
He's a terrible coach.. Fun fact: Cleveland wanted to get rid of him so bad they are STILL paying him like three or four years later.. he's bad.

metswon69
06-04-2017, 12:23 AM
Does everyone who interim coaches with the Warriors deserve a head coaching job? I mean there are probably a lot of PSD NBA forum posters who could lead the Warriors to a title with their roster.

Honestly I don't think Walton deserved a head coaching job either.

hugepatsfan
06-04-2017, 12:27 AM
We'll see how Walton turns out but coaching them last year is much different than this year. Walton was coaching an all time great team but it still took some level of coaching. The team with Durant now could be coached by a monkey but without him they're not that laughably better than everyone else level of dominant. Like I said still an all time great team but this years Warriors are just a different animal.

Twolves88
06-04-2017, 12:38 AM
How is it that Dantoni who has never made it to the finals gets a break on this forum? But Mike Brown who coached a crap cavs team to the finals doesn't catch a break? Look the the cavs best roster prior to LeBron leaving then look at phoenix roster with nash amare and marion. Arguably phoenix by far and away had a more talented roster and never made the playoffs. It's not like the Detroit team the cavs had to go through was a slouch team either.

metswon69
06-04-2017, 12:46 AM
How is it that Dantoni who has never made it to the finals gets a break on this forum? But Mike Brown who coached a crap cavs team to the finals doesn't catch a break? Look the the cavs best roster prior to LeBron leaving then look at phoenix roster with nash amare and marion. Arguably phoenix by far and away had a more talented roster and never made the playoffs. It's not like the Detroit team the cavs had to go through was a slouch team either.

Innovative offensive style of play that players enjoy playing (say that 5 times fast). That's why D'Antoni keeps getting hired. Not to mention, he deserves credit for how well the Rockets played this past regular season.

Mike Brown style of coaching is what a lot of NBA coaches preach, defense. There isn't anything overly exciting about his offensive schemes and there is only really one guy who gets credit for that Cavs team making the finals and we know who that is.

Twolves88
06-04-2017, 12:51 AM
Innovative offensive style of play that players enjoy playing (say that 5 times fast). That's why D'Antoni keeps getting hired. Not to mention, he deserves credit for how well the Rockets played this past regular season.

Mike Brown style of coaching is what a lot of NBA coaches preach, defense. There isn't anything overly exciting about his offensive schemes and there is only really one guy who gets credit for that Cavs team making the finals and we know who that is.


The league borders on obsessive on offense but defense no one seems to care. In Browns years of coaching his teams have NEVER been outside the top half on defense. Honestly, look at this cavs roster....

http://basketball.******.com/nba/teams/Cleveland_Cavaliers/5/Rosters/Playoff/2007

Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson
Drew Gooden
Larry Hughes
big z
Damon Jones
Daniel Marshall
Sasha Pavlovich(sp)
Eric Snow
Varejo
David Wesley
Lebron

This is what Brown had to coach. His lakers team was equally as god aweful. That's less support then what Iverson had when he went to the finals!

Yet offense is sexy and Antoni keeps getting jobs

metswon69
06-04-2017, 12:57 AM
The league borders on obsessive on offense but defense no one seems to care. In Browns years of coaching his teams have NEVER been outside the top half on defense. Honestly, look at this cavs roster....

http://basketball.******.com/nba/teams/Cleveland_Cavaliers/5/Rosters/Playoff/2007

Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson
Drew Gooden
Larry Hughes
big z
Damon Jones
Daniel Marshall
Sasha Pavlovich(sp)
Eric Snow
Varejo
David Wesley
Lebron

This is what Brown had to coach. His lakers team was equally as god aweful. That's less support then what Iverson had when he went to the finals!

Yet offense is sexy and Antoni keeps getting jobs

Well think about the teams that have job openings. Are those teams usually any good? He'll presumably face the same problems he did in LA where the team he coaches is bereft of talent and the poor results will result in him getting fired again.

Joe Dumars deserves another NBA job before Mike Brown does imo.

lol, please
06-04-2017, 01:38 AM
I agree with people saying Walton didn't really deserve the coaching job or recognition, it's a cool feel-good story and all, but as people are saying, anyone could be coaching this team right now, it's a ship that runs itself.

BKLYNpigeon
06-04-2017, 01:42 AM
Coaching Success depends on the Players and Situation.

Everyone though D'antoni was a bum with the Knicks and Lakers. Now he might be Coach of the Year with the Rockets.

Look at Scott Brooks with OKC. It was all ISOs and pick and rolls. You blame Brooks or Westbrook?
Because he had a great first season with The Wiz and John Wall has a career year.

Popavich would coach 5 more wins out of the Nets last season. lol.

Mike Brown hasn't had the best success, but I'm sure he's grown since then. Im sure he's going to take a lot from Kerrs system and apply it in his own way. it all depends on your players and situation.

FOXHOUND
06-04-2017, 08:14 AM
Everyone thinks they can coach the Warriors until you're standing there with a Donkey yelling in your face.

Scoots
06-04-2017, 10:01 AM
1. There are no bad coaches in the NBA.

2. There are coaches who are better at some things than others.

3. Mike Brown is a good coach, but his strengths don't extend to offense or managing the team on the floor.

There are these things that people just believe as fact because they've heard it so often. Listen to Cleveland sports radio and they just take it as a fact that Mike Brown can't coach at all and it's not close to true. Great coaches have been run off by a bad situation.

Brown doesn't seem to want another head coach gig.

warfelg
06-04-2017, 10:14 AM
He would 100% get another job if defense wasn't seen as a dirty word in the NBA anymore.

Really - Coach Pringles should do whatever he can to get Mike Brown on his staff. He needs that guy to help him.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-04-2017, 06:20 PM
1. There are no bad coaches in the NBA.

2. There are coaches who are better at some things than others.

3. Mike Brown is a good coach, but his strengths don't extend to offense or managing the team on the floor.

There are these things that people just believe as fact because they've heard it so often. Listen to Cleveland sports radio and they just take it as a fact that Mike Brown can't coach at all and it's not close to true. Great coaches have been run off by a bad situation.

Brown doesn't seem to want another head coach gig.

What?

You're good/bad relative to your peers.

If X coach ranks at the bottom in multiple facets compared to the rest of the league, then that makes them a bad coach in the NBA. He might be elite in college but in the NBA, that makes you bad.

GoferKing_
06-04-2017, 07:09 PM
These guys know how to play without a coach. So, no.

TheDish87
06-04-2017, 07:19 PM
walton didnt deserve to get hired and Brown hasnt done anything to warrant the thought he can be a successful head coach again. any of us could coach the Warriors to 60 wins

Scoots
06-04-2017, 07:20 PM
What?

You're good/bad relative to your peers.

If X coach ranks at the bottom in multiple facets compared to the rest of the league, then that makes them a bad coach in the NBA. He might be elite in college but in the NBA, that makes you bad.

Okay, relative to other NBA coaches by skill set there are certainly coaches who are at the top and some who are at the bottom, but they are almost certain to have other strengths to make it to the NBA.

Sure, but not as good at even multiple facets does not mean they are bad in all facets. If a head coach doesn't do offense, a team can succeed with an assistant coach who is good at offense. It's about building a coaching team and getting them to work together.

Mark Jackson was not a bad coach, full stop. He was horrible at managing his staff, and he was inept at running and offense and at game planning. But he was very good at managing players egos. He was nowhere near as good a coach as Kerr in any facet, but that can't completely devalue the one skill he did have.

AllBall
06-04-2017, 07:28 PM
When you throw in a player who has been coached by Scott Brooks, Coach K and Billy Donovan they don't really need any further coaching.

If it were Mike Brown coaching last year's Warriors team, then yes. But it's not. I think last year's Warriors team is different enough where I can give credit to Luke Walton.

Chronz
06-04-2017, 07:30 PM
He's not a bad coach.

The Cavs were a struggle. It was his first job, and as we have seen with LBJ, the King wants control over the team. Lue is an assistant coach.

In LAL, he never got a chance. He had a lockout shortened season with the same team Phil lost with only older, and then got Howard, who refused to do the pick-and-roll and demanded the ball in the post, and ancient Nash who quickly got injured, and while being forced to implement the corner offense, he got fired a hand full of games into the season.

Then a gutted Cavs squad?

He really hasn't gotten a decent shot.

Seems like he's working well as an assistant, and does very well with players who are willing to listen to him.
That he wanted to run the Princeton offense with Nash around was dumb in itself imo.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-04-2017, 07:45 PM
Okay, relative to other NBA coaches by skill set there are certainly coaches who are at the top and some who are at the bottom, but they are almost certain to have other strengths to make it to the NBA.

Sure, but not as good at even multiple facets does not mean they are bad in all facets. If a head coach doesn't do offense, a team can succeed with an assistant coach who is good at offense. It's about building a coaching team and getting them to work together.

Mark Jackson was not a bad coach, full stop. He was horrible at managing his staff, and he was inept at running and offense and at game planning. But he was very good at managing players egos. He was nowhere near as good a coach as Kerr in any facet, but that can't completely devalue the one skill he did have.

He doesn't deserve another chance because he hasn't show that his strengths make up for his weaknesses. And you can only have so many assistant coaches who can make up for his weaknesses before you essentially have a staff of assistant coaches that end up being better than the head coach anyway.

If he has say 1 strength and 9 weaknesses, well no matter how great he is in that 1 strength, he'll still be a bad coach. Being an assistant is great for him. He can focus on the few things he is good at and he doesn't need to be in a situation where he is the head coach but his assistants are clearly better than him.

Scoots
06-04-2017, 08:06 PM
When you throw in a player who has been coached by Scott Brooks, Coach K and Billy Donovan they don't really need any further coaching.

If it were Mike Brown coaching last year's Warriors team, then yes. But it's not. I think last year's Warriors team is different enough where I can give credit to Luke Walton.

Luke Walton had a significant impact. He's the one who freed up Curry and supposedly told him he wanted him to take 15 3s a game. If you look at Draymond's scoring with and without Walton it's a huge difference. Walton is a good people manager and a good player development coach. We don't yet know about his other attributes.

Scoots
06-04-2017, 08:09 PM
He doesn't deserve another chance because he hasn't show that his strengths make up for his weaknesses. And you can only have so many assistant coaches who can make up for his weaknesses before you essentially have a staff of assistant coaches that end up being better than the head coach anyway.

If he has say 1 strength and 9 weaknesses, well no matter how great he is in that 1 strength, he'll still be a bad coach. Being an assistant is great for him. He can focus on the few things he is good at and he doesn't need to be in a situation where he is the head coach but his assistants are clearly better than him.

I don't think Brown should expect another chance, and I don't think he's looking for one. As a head coach he's not as good as others, as an assistant he's a good coach.

I think the confusion may be that when you say "coach" you are ONLY talking about head coaches while I'm talking about assistant coaches too.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-04-2017, 08:55 PM
I don't think Brown should expect another chance, and I don't think he's looking for one. As a head coach he's not as good as others, as an assistant he's a good coach.

I think the confusion may be that when you say "coach" you are ONLY talking about head coaches while I'm talking about assistant coaches too.

Well OP was referring to him as a HC. But yes, I agree with your first paragraph.

JasonJohnHorn
06-04-2017, 10:40 PM
lol to be wrong that fast.

He's not only gotten 66 wins out of a team before, but also got back-to-back 60-win seasons out of a team, and got the Cavs past a very good Piston's team in the playoffs.

He should have gotten to the finals once more with the Cavs. The Boston team was better. The Magic... not so much... but they were able to exploit a key match-up and officials let Howard get away with a lot of offensive fouls, which they didn't let him do in the finals that year against the Lakers.

Is he a bad coach? How would a bad coach get 66 wins out of a team? How would a bad coach get back-to-back 60-win seasons? Pop has only done that once and has had much better teams.

Is he a great coach? I wouldn't make that case. Is he a bad coach? I think we can quantifiably say no. He's not. Based on what he has done.

Did he have a bad year with Cleveland in 2014? The roster had so many changing pieces and injuries that year... 33 wins was a decent mark for most any coach.

In LA, he had a .666 percentage... Jackson had .690 the year before with a younger and healthier roster.

So he's managed achieve a marker Pop only has done once (back-to-back 60-win teams) and won at about as high a percentage with the same roster that P-Jax only not as healthy and young as the one Phil had.


Jackson and Pop set pretty high standards. If Brown has been able perform as well as them in some instances, even if not consistently, I'd say that's a pretty good indication he's not a 'bad' coach, even if that doesn't mean he isn't a great one.

He's also won COY. So.. there's that.

A bad coach could not have pulled off what he pulled off. If you can think of one who has, I'd be curious to hear about it.

And an organization like the Warriors isn't going to being in a bad coach.

JasonJohnHorn
06-04-2017, 10:51 PM
What?

You're good/bad relative to your peers.

If X coach ranks at the bottom in multiple facets compared to the rest of the league, then that makes them a bad coach in the NBA. He might be elite in college but in the NBA, that makes you bad.

I think Scoots has a point here....

You have to be pretty good to get to this level.

I'm more inclined to say 'he's not a bad coach' or 'he's not a great' coach, but bad seems unfair in this context.


But Brown is not bad by most standards, he just isn't as diverse.

He has a record of 347/216 for over .600 for an average of about a 50 win season.... I'd say that's pretty good among his peers.

JasonJohnHorn
06-04-2017, 11:00 PM
That he wanted to run the Princeton offense with Nash around was dumb in itself imo.

I was under the impression that the Princeton offense wasn't his idea. I thought Mitch and Buss wanted that because they thought it was a system that Kobe would do well in with Nas and forced it on Brown because they thought he needed to up his offensive end.

I was also under the impression that he wanted to do the pick-and-roll with Nash and Howard, but that Howard was quite insistent that he wasn't doing that and wanted touches in the post.

Could be wrong... but the press stuff I was reading at the time (if I remember right) was more about Buss and Mitch wanting to shape the offense that way. Buss wanted to put his imprint on the team and wanted something like the triangle that Kobe would thrive in, but something that was different than Phil Jackson's work, so the corner offense/Princeton offense was what they went with.


Either way... I think Brown was a good head coach... decent... but he's a better assistant.

eDush
06-05-2017, 11:56 PM
What?

You're good/bad relative to your peers.

If X coach ranks at the bottom in multiple facets compared to the rest of the league, then that makes them a bad coach in the NBA. He might be elite in college but in the NBA, that makes you bad.

Okay, relative to other NBA coaches by skill set there are certainly coaches who are at the top and some who are at the bottom, but they are almost certain to have other strengths to make it to the NBA.

Sure, but not as good at even multiple facets does not mean they are bad in all facets. If a head coach doesn't do offense, a team can succeed with an assistant coach who is good at offense. It's about building a coaching team and getting them to work together.

Mark Jackson was not a bad coach, full stop. He was horrible at managing his staff, and he was inept at running and offense and at game planning. But he was very good at managing players egos. He was nowhere near as good a coach as Kerr in any facet, but that can't completely devalue the one skill he did have.There you go again bringing up his name in a negative light. You are no different than the owner making fun of him at a privately held fund raiser but at least he stop while you continue to trash him and it's wrong!
:mad:

goingfor28
06-06-2017, 03:23 AM
Mark Jackson

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Saddletramp
06-06-2017, 03:59 AM
Mike Brown can coach again if he can find a way to get onto another NBA All Star team. If he goes to Orlando or Milwaukee or even the Clippers, he'll be fired again because without those All Stars, he sucks ***.

He's about as good as Mark Jackson, just without the hookers, bible and hypocrisy.

Scoots
06-06-2017, 09:27 AM
There you go again bringing up his name in a negative light. You are no different than the owner making fun of him at a privately held fund raiser but at least he stop while you continue to trash him and it's wrong!
:mad:

I said he was not a bad coach. I said he was very good at managing players egos. Positive things.

Hawkeye15
06-06-2017, 09:31 AM
as a head coach? No. Hell no.

I could look like the COY if I had GS's firepower.

Brown is a defensive guy. All he did in Cleveland, is isolate LeBron on the right, and stand there looking confused. When the defense was able to slow them down, he called a timeout, and isolated LeBron on the left side now. What an X's and O's guy that one...

eDush
06-06-2017, 09:47 AM
I said he was not a bad coach. I said he was very good at managing players egos. Positive things.
You said he was inept in running an offense and game planning.....so they made the playoffs back to back on defense alone? And u said he was horrible at managing a staff...how would you manage moles whose purpose was to undermine and sabotage him? Malone did a great job under Jackson but than again he wasn't a mole.

BKLYNpigeon
06-06-2017, 10:10 AM
Probably get some considerations.

Fred Holberg, Nate Mcmillan, Jeff Hornacek and Earl Watson Still have a job.

FOXHOUND
06-06-2017, 10:25 AM
Roster makeup has so much to do with whether a coach is "good" or not. Very few coaches can adapt to a roster on the fly at a high level. Those are the special coaches. Mike Brown is a good coach, but he's not a special coach. The NBA tends to chew up coaches and spit them out once they reveal themselves to not be special. Mike D'Antoni would have never gotten another shot if it wasn't for his philosophy fitting so in line with Morey's analytic ideals.

LOb0
06-06-2017, 02:30 PM
The league borders on obsessive on offense but defense no one seems to care. In Browns years of coaching his teams have NEVER been outside the top half on defense. Honestly, look at this cavs roster....

http://basketball.******.com/nba/teams/Cleveland_Cavaliers/5/Rosters/Playoff/2007

Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson
Drew Gooden
Larry Hughes
big z
Damon Jones
Daniel Marshall
Sasha Pavlovich(sp)
Eric Snow
Varejo
David Wesley
Lebron

This is what Brown had to coach. His lakers team was equally as god aweful. That's less support then what Iverson had when he went to the finals!

Yet offense is sexy and Antoni keeps getting jobs

I'd like a stat monkey to break down if they just played horribly slow and that's why the defensive numbers were good. I never thought any of those teams were great defensively. That 2009 Orlando series was atrocious, Brown just made mistake after mistake match up wise.

ewing
06-07-2017, 09:35 PM
Sure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MrfadeawayJB
06-07-2017, 10:36 PM
Helen Keller could get this GS team 65 reg season wins