PDA

View Full Version : JVG- "This is the biggest talent differential between the best team and the 2nd best"



Chronz
05-31-2017, 10:15 AM
http://www.sfchronicle.com/warriors/article/NBA-playoffs-predictable-but-no-longer-boring-11178551.php?t=f7a8755472&cmpid=twitter-premium


“I don’t think the Warriors will be challenged,” Van Gundy said. “I think they’ll be in the same situation as last year, up 3-1 coming home. In my time in the NBA, this is the biggest talent differential between the best team and the second best team. No disrespect to Cleveland, but I just think the Warriors are at a different level.”


His boss sure hopes Van Gundy is wrong. The Western Conference finals produced some of the lowest-rated conference finals games in the past four years. In the Eastern Conference finals, ratings were slightly up over last year. A lot of people were apparently taking Durant’s advice: During the Spurs series, he said, “If you don’t like it, don’t watch.” Van Gundy was among them. He turned off Game 5 (on a different network) when Boston was trailing by 30.



Paul Pierce compares KD joining the Dubs to a kid befriending his bullies instead of fighting like a proud competitor;

https://twitter.com/JordanHeckFF/status/869642425173778433



Im watching the Finals outta habit but is it plausible that people tune out if its another beatdown? These 2 teams were already a great rivalry, KD nuked it. For those who keep trying to compare it to Bron just stop already. Bron didn't join his enemies, they were already friends and were not in direct contention with each other. KD is Ray Allen in Pierce's mind.

hugepatsfan
05-31-2017, 10:23 AM
In before people say Pierce teamed up with KG and Ray.

KG/Ray/Pierce were a "Big 3" but only KG was a transcendent talent. Lebron/Wade both were transcendent talents. Curry/KD both are. That's the part that I think is weak. Linking up with all stars is one thing, but when you have transcendent players teaming up that to me is what ridiculous.

What KD did so far blew Lebron out of the water because he was already on a team with transcendent talent and went to one that had that plus two more all stars and established role players. Lebron didn't have the needed help in CLE and he was starting anew with a team that had to still find the role players and build chemistry.

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 10:30 AM
In before people say Pierce teamed up with KG and Ray.

KG/Ray/Pierce were a "Big 3" but only KG was a transcendent talent. Lebron/Wade both were transcendent talents. Curry/KD both are. That's the part that I think is weak. Linking up with all stars is one thing, but when you have transcendent players teaming up that to me is what ridiculous.

What KD did so far blew Lebron out of the water because he was already on a team with transcendent talent and went to one that had that plus two more all stars and established role players. Lebron didn't have the needed help in CLE and he was starting anew with a team that had to still find the role players and build chemistry.

Furthermore, we know Wade declined big time after year 1 in the big 3. I just can't see that happening with GS's stars, who are all in their peaks.

To the point of what Van Gundy said, he is right. Anyone trying to justify Cleveland being an equal is basically either in denial, or setting up their argument to dump on LeBron.

GS is the most talented team in NBA history. Easily. Anything less than a championship, unless it's due to injuries to a couple of the Warriors over the next 2 weeks, is a monster choke job.

ManRam
05-31-2017, 10:32 AM
In before people say Pierce teamed up with KG and Ray.

KG/Ray/Pierce were a "Big 3" but only KG was a transcendent talent. Lebron/Wade both were transcendent talents. Curry/KD both are. That's the part that I think is weak. Linking up with all stars is one thing, but when you have transcendent players teaming up that to me is what ridiculous.

What KD did so far blew Lebron out of the water because he was already on a team with transcendent talent and went to one that had that plus two more all stars and established role players. Lebron didn't have the needed help in CLE and he was starting anew with a team that had to still find the role players and build chemistry.

Yup. Nothing compares to this. Not Miami. Not Boston. Nothing. It's a whole different level. There's no debating it.

I too think GS should blow out Cleveland. I hope it's competitive, but I'm pretty convinced we'll have a fitting finale to the least interesting NBA playoffs of my life. The Finals were really all that I cared about because it was inevitable, but GS is healthy and when they're healthy they're unbeatable.

KG2TB
05-31-2017, 10:33 AM
In before people say Pierce teamed up with KG and Ray.

KG/Ray/Pierce were a "Big 3" but only KG was a transcendent talent. Lebron/Wade both were transcendent talents. Curry/KD both are. That's the part that I think is weak. Linking up with all stars is one thing, but when you have transcendent players teaming up that to me is what ridiculous.

What KD did so far blew Lebron out of the water because he was already on a team with transcendent talent and went to one that had that plus two more all stars and established role players. Lebron didn't have the needed help in CLE and he was starting anew with a team that had to still find the role players and build chemistry.

I think you're splitting hairs. We could debate "transcendent talent" all day...but the fact is that KG/Ray/Pierce are all future hall of famers.

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 10:37 AM
I think you're splitting hairs. We could debate "transcendent talent" all day...but the fact is that KG/Ray/Pierce are all future hall of famers.

they came together after their peaks however (2 via trade). Imagine if they came together in 2003, and just happened to have a 4th all star in his peak with them just for fun...that is GS.

Who beats 2003 versions of KG, Allen, Pierce, and toss in 2003 Peja Stojakovic just for fun...

seriously people, that is what GS is/did.

hugepatsfan
05-31-2017, 10:39 AM
There's just such a difference in the NBA between a top 5 player and a top 15-20 even though people just lump them in as all stars.

Like there's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference between Curry/Durant and Klay Thompson or even Green even though people just say they have "4 all stars". It's not really the 4 all stars that make them such an unbeatable monster, it's the fact that they have 4 all stars with two of them being transcendent MVP talents. And they're all in their primes.

BOS had 4 all stars by the end of their run but Pierce/Ray were never "transcendent MVP talents", Rondo definitely wasn't and KG post-knee injury wasn't anymore. Lebron/Wade were but Bosh never was - and Wade wasn't by probably year 3 of that MIA run. Those teams weren't even in the slightest bit comparable to what Durant built in GS.

To Chronz point, they already mentioned that the WCF finals were bad. People like to argue that dominant teams are a draw and they are to an extent but if people feel there's no reason to watch because the outcome isn't in doubt then they won't. If CLE gets blown out like they should on paper it probably does have serious complications. The media will have a whole year to hype up the inevitable 4th matchup next year so maybe by the time it comes around people will psyche themselves up. But if GS steam rolls back to back (and then more years in a row) like they should then the sport is probably going to face some serious issues drawing interest. The NBA NEEDS CLE to put up a good fight that makes people enjoy watching.

hugepatsfan
05-31-2017, 10:41 AM
I think you're splitting hairs. We could debate "transcendent talent" all day...but the fact is that KG/Ray/Pierce are all future hall of famers.

Pierce and Ray are HOFers but neither was ever sniffing an MVP award. They're GREAT players but they aren't prime Curry/Lebron/KG/Wade/Durant. There is a big difference between the tier those guys were/are and what Pierce/Ray/Bosh/Green/Thompson are. (Actually Lebron is even a tier above those other MVP guys himself.)

hugepatsfan
05-31-2017, 10:43 AM
they came together after their peaks however (2 via trade). Imagine if they came together in 2003, and just happened to have a 4th all star in his peak with them just for fun...that is GS.

Who beats 2003 versions of KG, Allen, Pierce, and toss in 2003 Peja Stojakovic just for fun...

seriously people, that is what GS is/did.

Yup exactly.

And just to be clear, the management of GS deserves immense credit for putting this together. Just an absolutely amazing job. Sure they got helped by the cap spike but they've just done an out-of-world job putting it all together. Durant just deserves to be ripped for being such a ***** that he took part in it. The management gets full props but there's nothing commendable about it on Durant's end.

hugepatsfan
05-31-2017, 10:47 AM
they came together after their peaks however (2 via trade). Imagine if they came together in 2003, and just happened to have a 4th all star in his peak with them just for fun...that is GS.

Who beats 2003 versions of KG, Allen, Pierce, and toss in 2003 Peja Stojakovic just for fun...

seriously people, that is what GS is/did.

Honestly, I thought of an even better comparison. It'd be like if after the 08 Finals where BOS embarrassed Kobe in Game 6 (like GS took a 3-1 lead from Durant), if he as a FA came over to join BOS's Big 3.

Your 03 big 4, as loaded as that team is, doesn't even really compare. They have 1 MVP and 3 all stars. This team has 2 MVPs and 2 all stars. It's like if you had a prime Kobe/KG/Pierce/Ray. It's just INSANE to think about.

hugepatsfan
05-31-2017, 10:53 AM
Also, in before Golden State fans criticize all of us as not being competitive enough to just root for GMs to build better teams. This of course as a defense for Durant, an actual competitor on the court, not being competitive enough to go against GS.

KG2TB
05-31-2017, 11:03 AM
Pierce and Ray are HOFers but neither was ever sniffing an MVP award. They're GREAT players but they aren't prime Curry/Lebron/KG/Wade/Durant. There is a big difference between the tier those guys were/are and what Pierce/Ray/Bosh/Green/Thompson are. (Actually Lebron is even a tier above those other MVP guys himself.)

That's true but different years bring about different circumstances. Boston was the best available destination due to talent/team/salary cap etc. Same with Miami. Miami was a preferred city, had Bron's buddies, and they were able to absorb the salary. For KD, GS was the best situation. They were already great, fun city, and were able to absorb his salary. I can't fault guys for going to the best situation to win or enjoy their time in the NBA. In 10, 15, 20 years, there's not going to be this narrative of jumping ship to a powerhouse. It

Chronz
05-31-2017, 11:23 AM
In before people say Pierce teamed up with KG and Ray.

KG/Ray/Pierce were a "Big 3" but only KG was a transcendent talent. Lebron/Wade both were transcendent talents. Curry/KD both are. That's the part that I think is weak. Linking up with all stars is one thing, but when you have transcendent players teaming up that to me is what ridiculous.

What KD did so far blew Lebron out of the water because he was already on a team with transcendent talent and went to one that had that plus two more all stars and established role players. Lebron didn't have the needed help in CLE and he was starting anew with a team that had to still find the role players and build chemistry.

You a fan of Bill Burr? Thoughts on his thoughts of the KD cuckolding experience? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yLAO0EZX6k

Chronz
05-31-2017, 11:28 AM
In 10, 15, 20 years, there's not going to be this narrative of jumping ship to a powerhouse. It

Your an entitled to your own opinion even though I disagree with it but this part annoys me, I might be reaching here but its abit like controlling the opinion of others. Why would this narrative go away if its such an unprecedented experience? I dont think people will forget, maybe the casual fans but who gives a **** what they think? I know of 20 year old "narratives" that dont escape my mind when a certain player or ranking is brought up, why would KD destroying the league be any different?

When guys like JVG and Pierce say these things, I think they'll remember why.

Rivera
05-31-2017, 11:28 AM
i just want to make sure im reading this thread right, I dont want to put words in peoples mouths

but people think this is going to be a short series (4 or 5 games?)

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 11:37 AM
i just want to make sure im reading this thread right, I dont want to put words in peoples mouths

but people think this is going to be a short series (4 or 5 games?)

yes. GS in 5, with 2 blowouts in the series, average margin of victory will be 12-14 points

likemystylez
05-31-2017, 11:41 AM
has jeff van gundy ever heard of the 60s celtics? there was a huge discrepancy in talent for like a decade straight

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 11:54 AM
has jeff van gundy ever heard of the 60s celtics? there was a huge discrepancy in talent for like a decade straight

he said, "while he has been in the NBA".

Different time too. You have to break up the NBA into the modern era, which is the 80's, to now. Even more detailed if you wish to use FA, salary caps, etc.

But his point stands. I haven't, in my life time, seen talent disparity from team 1, to team everyone else, in the NBA, like it is now. It's a joke.

And GS fans, enjoy it, I don't mean to crap on your parade, your team did nothing wrong. I can't stand Durant anymore, but the Warriors themselves are amazing with what they did. I just don't like seeing a fight over before it even starts..

cmellofan15
05-31-2017, 11:56 AM
Yeah I'd be surprised myself if the series went 6 games. It would have to be a result of the Warriors not playing up to their potential because they are far and away the better team across the board.

cmellofan15
05-31-2017, 11:59 AM
has jeff van gundy ever heard of the 60s celtics? there was a huge discrepancy in talent for like a decade straight

Didn't realize he was coaching back then.....

Rivera
05-31-2017, 12:01 PM
yes. GS in 5, with 2 blowouts in the series, average margin of victory will be 12-14 points

wow, really? I can respect that and cant really argue against it. I just think Cleveland is gonna compete and KLove is playing wayyyyyyyy better than he did at any point in the post season last year. Kyrie seems to step up his game even on D when he plays against Steph and if Lebron is Lebron from 5-7 last year the whole series, I dont see why we cant get 7.

I guess im more hoping for good basketball because I was bored this entire post season

cmellofan15
05-31-2017, 12:05 PM
At this point I think it's hard to look at the Cleveland defense and the way they have been playing the entire year and think they can become elite in these next few games to compete with the best offense in the league.

Rivera
05-31-2017, 12:09 PM
At this point I think it's hard to look at the Cleveland defense and the way they have been playing the entire year and think they can become elite in these next few games to compete with the best offense in the league.

I agree but at the same time, didnt they finish 23-23 and just flip a switch?

I can see them getting physcial again and bothering GS, grabbing around screens again and just constant rubbing getting under GS skin again

i dont know if that gets them 2 games but I can see that happening, they are fast and athletic but i just dont know how organized they can be on their switches and run outs

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 12:15 PM
wow, really? I can respect that and cant really argue against it. I just think Cleveland is gonna compete and KLove is playing wayyyyyyyy better than he did at any point in the post season last year. Kyrie seems to step up his game even on D when he plays against Steph and if Lebron is Lebron from 5-7 last year the whole series, I dont see why we cant get 7.

I guess im more hoping for good basketball because I was bored this entire post season

Trust me, I hope Cleveland makes it a series. But their defense isn't great, and GS will expose it, badly.

Remember all those shots Cleveland let GS shoot in the corner? That isn't Harrison Barnes anymore, it's Kevin Durant. Curry isn't gimping, and Green isn't hunting sweaty balls. No bailouts this time for the Cavs, they need to overperform to a monster degree to win.

SfgiantsJD3
05-31-2017, 01:23 PM
Any game that is within 3-4 possessions near the end of the game, LB has the potential to just take over and control, that's the big x-factor, all it takes it GS to be a little cool and CAV to be a little hot and we have competitive games and series.

LOb0
05-31-2017, 01:26 PM
At this point I think it's hard to look at the Cleveland defense and the way they have been playing the entire year and think they can become elite in these next few games to compete with the best offense in the league.

This is why GS in 5 sadly.

The Raptors and Celtics missed so many open shots. Good luck playing that D against the Warriors.

Rivera
05-31-2017, 02:17 PM
Trust me, I hope Cleveland makes it a series. But their defense isn't great, and GS will expose it, badly.

Remember all those shots Cleveland let GS shoot in the corner? That isn't Harrison Barnes anymore, it's Kevin Durant. Curry isn't gimping, and Green isn't hunting sweaty balls. No bailouts this time for the Cavs, they need to overperform to a monster degree to win.

why couldnt Cleveland leave Draymond or Iggy or Livingston open?

Those 3 dont have great amazing shots, if they make them you live with it. I guess I would try and dare Draymond to shoot and give freedom to who ever guards zaza or javelle

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 02:23 PM
why couldnt Cleveland leave Draymond or Iggy or Livingston open?

Those 3 dont have great amazing shots, if they make them you live with it. I guess I would try and dare Draymond to shoot and give freedom to who ever guards zaza or javelle

Point is, they tried to load up on Curry last year, they succeeded, GS role players missed their shots. That is a very risky strategy, now GS has yet another shooter/scorer, and Green probably doesn't get suspended this year.

Seriously, this is such a disparity in talent. GS should win the series in 4, but Cleveland will show up and get hot enough to take a game I am sure.

The Warriors will also play plenty with Green at the 5, and that will make Cleveland think long and hard about keeping Love on the floor.

Just too many advantages for GS.

Vee-Rex
05-31-2017, 02:27 PM
Cleveland is seriously about to shock the world.

Rivera
05-31-2017, 02:34 PM
Point is, they tried to load up on Curry last year, they succeeded, GS role players missed their shots. That is a very risky strategy, now GS has yet another shooter/scorer, and Green probably doesn't get suspended this year.

Seriously, this is such a disparity in talent. GS should win the series in 4, but Cleveland will show up and get hot enough to take a game I am sure.

The Warriors will also play plenty with Green at the 5, and that will make Cleveland think long and hard about keeping Love on the floor.

Just too many advantages for GS.

I mean I get your point. I get everything your saying, but I think its a bit closer than what this thread conveys. I dont really disagree here but just talking ball, going over different ways Cleveland can defend and attack.

KLove has been impressive, and im being honest here, im putting KLove on Klay. KLove knows Klays game from when they grew up and im being honest, im not scared of Klay driving past KLove to get to the whole. Not that he isnt capable, because hes MORE than capable, but I am not scared of that if im Cleveland.

If im Cleveland im forcing, Iggy, Dray, and Livingston to shoot

Im bumping, rubbing and grabbing the jerseys of Klay KD and Steph

im attacking Dray to get him in foul trouble and if they dare put KD on bron, im attacking KD and trying to put him in foul trouble

Scoots
05-31-2017, 02:38 PM
I just don't like seeing a fight over before it even starts..

One funny thing about that is that in actual fighting nothing gets more attention than a fighter who is so dominant every fight is a foregone conclusion.

nastynice
05-31-2017, 02:44 PM
Yup exactly.

And just to be clear, the management of GS deserves immense credit for putting this together. Just an absolutely amazing job. Sure they got helped by the cap spike but they've just done an out-of-world job putting it all together. Durant just deserves to be ripped for being such a ***** that he took part in it. The management gets full props but there's nothing commendable about it on Durant's end.

Yup! It's funny cuz last year the league muddles with the finals in order to boost ratings, and now the outcome is one of the most talented (on paper) super teams ever formed. That sure bit them in the ***, lmao!!

This team might be too savage for our own good. Ur a pats fan, you know what it's like to have people cry and complain about being too good ;)

Vee-Rex
05-31-2017, 02:46 PM
This is why GS in 5 sadly.

The Raptors and Celtics missed so many open shots. Good luck playing that D against the Warriors.

PJ Tucker, DeMarre Carroll, Patrick Patterson, Marcus Smart, and Jae Crowder missed so many open shots.

The Warriors make it muuuuuuch harder for sure, but don't be shocked if Dray, Iggy, Livingston, West, and even McCaw are left wide open and it throws their offense a little off rhythm if they're bricking and/or trying to force shots to their stronger players.

The Warriors ARE gonna get plenty of easy buckets in this series on some defensive breakdowns for the Cavs. That's a given. The problem is that people are juicing it up so much and making it seem like the Cavs have a defense at the level of a high school team and won't be able to stop them at all. The truth of the matter is - every team is capable of playing lockdown defense. The good defensive teams just do it more often and for longer. The Cavs defense will have to dig in and maintain it for longer, and when the defense isn't playing great, the Cavs just have to outrebound and score buckets themselves. Exploit the mismatches - it's gonna be a series full of strategy and mental fortitude.

People forget Harrison Barnes was a good 3-point shooter ESPECIALLY in the corner. The Cavs intentionally left him open but the weight was just too much for him to handle. The Warriors as a team better be mentally strong or the Cavs will exploit it.

It really won't be a super easy series for the Dubs, just like it wasn't easy for them pre-Kawhi injury.

hugepatsfan
05-31-2017, 02:52 PM
Yup! It's funny cuz last year the league muddles with the finals in order to boost ratings, and now the outcome is one of the most talented (on paper) super teams ever formed. That sure bit them in the ***, lmao!!

This team might be too savage for our own good. Ur a pats fan, you know what it's like to have people cry and complain about being too good ;)

NBA is way different than the NFL. Even as great as NE has been they've still only won 5 titles in 16 seasons. In a one game playoff there's a very legit possibility they lose and they have lost more than twice as much as they've won. There's legit intrigue each year in that league. Even if NE has won the most they still face very real threat of upsets. It isn't like the NBA where talent is so important (because of less players playing) and a series making it so not only does a team need to upset someone but do it 4 times in 7 games.

Scoots
05-31-2017, 02:56 PM
I mean I get your point. I get everything your saying, but I think its a bit closer than what this thread conveys. I dont really disagree here but just talking ball, going over different ways Cleveland can defend and attack.

KLove has been impressive, and im being honest here, im putting KLove on Klay. KLove knows Klays game from when they grew up and im being honest, im not scared of Klay driving past KLove to get to the whole. Not that he isnt capable, because hes MORE than capable, but I am not scared of that if im Cleveland.

If im Cleveland im forcing, Iggy, Dray, and Livingston to shoot

Im bumping, rubbing and grabbing the jerseys of Klay KD and Steph

im attacking Dray to get him in foul trouble and if they dare put KD on bron, im attacking KD and trying to put him in foul trouble

Dray is at .472 from 3 for the playoffs, and that's at 4 attempts a game so not too small a sample size. Livingston is shooting .613. You can make them shoot if you like. The issue is that those guys are often out there with Curry, Thompson, and Durant too.

The bumping and grabbing only works if the refs allow it ... The Warriors are better than they were in drawing fouls, and if the fouls are not called when Curry/KD are bumped/grabbed they may not be called when LeBron/Kyrie are bumped/grabbed either and the Warriors have more guys who are better at rugged D than the Cavs do.

I've heard that the Cavs have to speed it up. I've heard they have to slow it down. I've heard that the Cavs have to force switches to get advantages, that they have to shoot lights out, that they have to defend at a level they've never shown they can. What's interesting is I've heard very little talk about what the Warriors have to do to win.

I'm a LeBron admirer, and I like Irving and Love and Thompson well enough too. That doesn't mean what they did to get here will keep happening.

I'm honestly intrigued to see what happens, but the consensus seems to be that it's MUCH more likely to go one way than the other because one team has a lot more room for error than the other.

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 03:09 PM
I mean I get your point. I get everything your saying, but I think its a bit closer than what this thread conveys. I dont really disagree here but just talking ball, going over different ways Cleveland can defend and attack.

KLove has been impressive, and im being honest here, im putting KLove on Klay. KLove knows Klays game from when they grew up and im being honest, im not scared of Klay driving past KLove to get to the whole. Not that he isnt capable, because hes MORE than capable, but I am not scared of that if im Cleveland.

If im Cleveland im forcing, Iggy, Dray, and Livingston to shoot

Im bumping, rubbing and grabbing the jerseys of Klay KD and Steph

im attacking Dray to get him in foul trouble and if they dare put KD on bron, im attacking KD and trying to put him in foul trouble

You can't put Love on Klay, who will just run him around until he dies. If I am GS, I push him off the floor as much as possible by making him guard a 3 point shooter.

The only hope Cleveland has is they can be way more physical and get GS to implode a bit. If the norm sticks, LeBron should eat up Durant. I just don't see how Cleveland's subpar defense (remember, 2/3 of their stars are bad defenders) will be able to hold GS to a reasonable level.

I don't think the games will be over by quarter 3. But I also think this is a lopsided series, and GS will dominate much of it.

Rivera
05-31-2017, 03:12 PM
Dray is at .472 from 3 for the playoffs, and that's at 4 attempts a game so not too small a sample size. Livingston is shooting .613. You can make them shoot if you like. The issue is that those guys are often out there with Curry, Thompson, and Durant too.

The bumping and grabbing only works if the refs allow it ... The Warriors are better than they were in drawing fouls, and if the fouls are not called when Curry/KD are bumped/grabbed they may not be called when LeBron/Kyrie are bumped/grabbed either and the Warriors have more guys who are better at rugged D than the Cavs do.

I've heard that the Cavs have to speed it up. I've heard they have to slow it down. I've heard that the Cavs have to force switches to get advantages, that they have to shoot lights out, that they have to defend at a level they've never shown they can. What's interesting is I've heard very little talk about what the Warriors have to do to win.

I'm a LeBron admirer, and I like Irving and Love and Thompson well enough too. That doesn't mean what they did to get here will keep happening.

I'm honestly intrigued to see what happens, but the consensus seems to be that it's MUCH more likely to go one way than the other because one team has a lot more room for error than the other.

Dray has been unconcious these playoffs, but I still would make him shoot. How long is that %age gonna last? seriously? I dont think hes THAT good of a shooter, hes a good one but 47% from 3? I dont think hes that good

Have you seen livingstons shooting #s outside of 16 feet? That is what I mean by letting him shoot. You cant let him get to his mid range sweet spot, but id give him the rondo treatment almost just dont let him shoot his mid range inside 15 feet open, everything outside of that, I am not touching him if im cleveland

as far as the bumping and grabbing, i guess im basing that off the last 2 finals where the majority of the games, the refs let them get away with most I guess im expecting the same

As far as tempo goes? IMO Cleveland shouldnt worry about pace, they just need to play ball and flow, they can play fast or slow, so it doesnt hurt them either way they just need to play ball and be physical

nastynice
05-31-2017, 03:25 PM
NBA is way different than the NFL. Even as great as NE has been they've still only won 5 titles in 16 seasons. In a one game playoff there's a very legit possibility they lose and they have lost more than twice as much as they've won. There's legit intrigue each year in that league. Even if NE has won the most they still face very real threat of upsets. It isn't like the NBA where talent is so important (because of less players playing) and a series making it so not only does a team need to upset someone but do it 4 times in 7 games.

Oh, I hear ya. I meant it more from an opposing fans crying point of view :)

Vee-Rex
05-31-2017, 03:26 PM
The question is... how much will we hear about Kerr being out as an excuse if the Cavs win?

SteBO
05-31-2017, 03:30 PM
The question is... how much will we hear about Kerr being out as an excuse if the Cavs win?
I think you'd hear more about KD failing than anything.....rightfully and hopefully so I might add given the avalanche of nonsense that fell on LBJ's head in 2011.

Scoots
05-31-2017, 03:32 PM
Dray has been unconcious these playoffs, but I still would make him shoot. How long is that %age gonna last? seriously? I dont think hes THAT good of a shooter, hes a good one but 47% from 3? I dont think hes that good

Have you seen livingstons shooting #s outside of 16 feet? That is what I mean by letting him shoot. You cant let him get to his mid range sweet spot, but id give him the rondo treatment almost just dont let him shoot his mid range inside 15 feet open, everything outside of that, I am not touching him if im cleveland

as far as the bumping and grabbing, i guess im basing that off the last 2 finals where the majority of the games, the refs let them get away with most I guess im expecting the same

As far as tempo goes? IMO Cleveland shouldnt worry about pace, they just need to play ball and flow, they can play fast or slow, so it doesnt hurt them either way they just need to play ball and be physical

Dray is a terrible shooter, but he's getting step in to it wiiide open catch and shoot shots from the top of the key which is about the only shot he ever practices. He's going to stay above the mendoza line.

Livingston doesn't shoot outside, other than handoffs he generally doesn't operate outside at all. If you are going to let him shoot he's only going to do it inside of 16 feet and he's deadly there. The Warriors offensive fulcrum is in that range ... they setup there and run the motion off and around it. If you single Livingston with a smaller guard he shoots, if you back off he shoots, if you defend him tight someone will get open.

As for the grind D ... people are saying the Cavs will get the Warriors into foul trouble ... that only works if the fouls are being called. The Warriors learned from last year and one of the things they learned is that Curry without the ball can be abused a LOT more than Curry with the ball, so if the grabbing is happening they will emphasize it by getting Curry the ball ... and he'll flail to emphasize it if he has to which is fairly new to be a regular part of his game. Physical it will be, I just don't know that it will favor the Cavs as much as some think it will.

The Warriors are going to press on D. They are going to double LeBron late is my guess to get the ball out of his hands when they want rather than when he wants, and the Warriors are the best switching team I've ever seen in not leaving easily exploitable holes when doubling or switching. They want the pace up and the tight aggressive D is part of it. LeBron is better than any other player in single handedly strangling what the Warriors want though so pace will definitely be interesting.

Scoots
05-31-2017, 03:37 PM
The question is... how much will we hear about Kerr being out as an excuse if the Cavs win?

How do you differentiate a "factor" from an "excuse"?

Q: Why did the dam collapse?
A: Well, it was several things, it's old, the concrete wasn't as good a quality as is usually available, and the rain was unseasonably early and heavy.

You are just making excuses!

...

Q: Why did the Warriors collapse? (if they do)
A: Well, it was several things, they're small, the coaching wasn't as good a quality as is usually available, and the opponent's offense and defense was unusually efficient and productive.


I don't think I'll ever understand why analysis can't just be analysis and not "excuses".

SteBO
05-31-2017, 03:45 PM
Because to say that you're essentially missing your coach and point out the Cavs offense & defense was unusually efficient and peoductive is not only a downplay of your opponent, insinuating that they were never really capable of such an output on a consistent basis, but a means to try and justify why your own team failed to meet expectations. The example screams excuses.

KG2TB
05-31-2017, 03:50 PM
Your an entitled to your own opinion even though I disagree with it but this part annoys me, I might be reaching here but its abit like controlling the opinion of others. Why would this narrative go away if its such an unprecedented experience? I dont think people will forget, maybe the casual fans but who gives a **** what they think? I know of 20 year old "narratives" that dont escape my mind when a certain player or ranking is brought up, why would KD destroying the league be any different?

When guys like JVG and Pierce say these things, I think they'll remember why.

Hardcore enthusiasts and basketball historians will remember, but not the casual fan. And either way, things like this don't really matter unless it's a legitimate top 5 player or Mount Rushmore type guy is at the subject. KD was never going to be that. For guys like LeBron and Kobe, or say Duncan perhaps, then this type of thing bears more weight. Honestly, before KD even made that move, I never really pegged him for an even top 20 player of all time. Or in that range. Honestly, who cares what some fans remember 20 years down the road? The most important thing for a player is how much they're enjoying their time playing, financial gains, and wins, right? Why would players care what Chronz or KG2TB thinks about their legacy? Jordan and maybe one other guy in 20 years will have a legit discussion on who is the best. And rankly, after that discussion, who cares where other guys rank you? You're either first or you're last.

Vee-Rex
05-31-2017, 04:01 PM
Because to say that you're essentially missing your coach and point out the Cavs offense & defense was unusually efficient and peoductive is not only a downplay of your opponent, insinuating that they were never really capable of such an output on a consistent basis, but a means to try and justify why your own team failed to meet expectations. The example screams excuses.

This.

We all know that Kerr will be MIA for probably the entire series, yet that's clearly not a big enough factor for people to start picking the Cavs to win.

If it's not a big enough factor now then it definitely shouldn't be a big enough factor post-Cavs win. That's when it becomes more than just an analysis and more of an excuse.

tredigs
05-31-2017, 04:05 PM
The Cavs have the best player in the game who some are claiming is playing at GOAT level along with two legitimate All Stars playing at their peak level since they have been in Cleveland (that goes for all three of them). TT is no joke in the paint and switching onto smaller players (a big deal defensively for them), and they are arguably a deeper team than Golden State. This Cleveland team would be favored against a majority of NBA Finals teams in history. They have the highest offensive efficiency for all playoff runs in NBA history for ****s sake. Let's not act like this is San Antonio against the '07 Cavs here.

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 04:09 PM
The Cavs have the best player in the game who some are claiming is playing at GOAT level along with two legitimate All Stars playing at their peak level since they have been in Cleveland (that goes for all three of them). TT is no joke in the paint and switching onto smaller players (a big deal defensively for them), and they are arguably a deeper team than Golden State. This Cleveland team would be favored against a majority of NBA Finals teams in history. They have the highest offensive efficiency for all playoff runs in NBA history for ****s sake. Let's not act like this is San Antonio against the '07 Cavs here.

Nobody is acting like that. But GS is simply much more talented, despite the list you compiled dude. In the series, does this sound fair, if we are ranking players?

LeBron
Durant
Curry

Green

Klay
Love
Irving


The Warriors will probably employ a lineup that doesn't allow the Cavs to use Love/TT together a lot.

There is a HUGE difference between all stars, and all NBA players. The Cavs have 1. The 2 all stars they have aren't even within sniffing distance of an all NBA team. The Warriors have 3 all NBA team members, and Klay is in the Love/Irving area as far as league ranking. Furthermore, with the way the game is played, GS and their floor spacing is the ultimate test of a defense. There is no stopping them, you just need to hope they miss some looks, and you are hitting shots at a very high clip, and can keep up.

The deck is stacked heavily in your teams favor. Just the way it is man.

More-Than-Most
05-31-2017, 04:22 PM
Na man... we are just using this as an excuse for lebron... gtfo... the only delusional ones are the ones not named cavs fans that think this series will go beyond 5.... Cavs fans I expect are confident and they should be... as an on looker i cant remember ever seeing a more talented team in the warriors... You will need all 3 of the big 3 to play at a legendary level in this series and the sad thing is it still might not be enough... We all hate the warriors but lets not act like we wouldnt want our team doing exactly what the warriors have done... Hell If I am guys like scoots and tre i am getting the goat threads ready the second the warriors win.... the cavs win or lose have nothing to be ashamed of.

tredigs
05-31-2017, 04:23 PM
Nobody is acting like that. But GS is simply much more talented, despite the list you compiled dude. In the series, does this sound fair, if we are ranking players?

LeBron
Durant
Curry

Green

Klay
Love
Irving


The Warriors will probably employ a lineup that doesn't allow the Cavs to use Love/TT together a lot.

There is a HUGE difference between all stars, and all NBA players. The Cavs have 1. The 2 all stars they have aren't even within sniffing distance of an all NBA team. The Warriors have 3 all NBA team members, and Klay is in the Love/Irving area as far as league ranking. Furthermore, with the way the game is played, GS and their floor spacing is the ultimate test of a defense. There is no stopping them, you just need to hope they miss some looks, and you are hitting shots at a very high clip, and can keep up.

The deck is stacked heavily in your teams favor. Just the way it is man.

The ranking of their current playoff level would probably look more like this to most people:

LeBron
Curry
Durant
Green

Irving
Love

Klay
TT

And based on last series, Irving and Love only look to be trending up. It's a very stacked roster putting up historic offensive numbers in the playoffs. They don't need pity because they're going up against a potentially even more potent juggernaut of a team. I don't see why this Finals won't be more competitive or entertaining than at least a dozen different Finals blowouts I can think of off the top of my head. Shaq/Kobe Lakers against JKidd/Keith Van Horn Nets? Lol I mean come on, Van Gundy's comments are ridiculous (and obviously 'Bron isn't quite as seemingly great to people as we have been hearing lately) if he thinks this is the most lopsided Finals he will have seen.

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 04:27 PM
The ranking of their current playoff level would probably look more like this to most people:

LeBron
Curry
Durant
Green

Irving
Love

Klay
TT

And based on last series, Irving and Love only look to be trending up. It's a very stacked roster putting up historic offensive numbers in the playoffs. They don't need pity because they're going up against a potentially even more potent juggernaut of a team. I don't see why this Finals won't be more competitive or entertaining than at least a dozen different Finals blowouts I can think of off the top of my head. Shaq/Kobe Lakers against JKidd/Keith Van Horn Nets? Lol I mean come on, Van Gundy's comments are ridiculous (and obviously 'Bron isn't quite as seemingly great to people as we have been hearing lately) if he thinks this is the most lopsided Finals he will have seen.

I wonder, are you going to give the credit so many are to your team if they handle Cleveland no problem, or use it as ammo against LeBron?

Meh, I am hoping for a competitive series, but I am not expecting more than a few games to actually end up competitive by quarter 4. GS in 5, with 2 games of a 15+ win margin is my prediction.

This GS team, playing under the current rules, is the most talented team in modern (post merger) history. I would expect them to continue playing like it. If Cleveland finds it's defense that hasn't been around all year, maybe they make it a series.

Kyben36
05-31-2017, 04:28 PM
i think whats sad is the difference between 1 vs 2 in each conference tallent wise is monumental. there was little chance any team was gonna knock either top team off (even if the celtics had the best record in the east)

unfortunately, its the age of the super teams and right now, there are only two. next year, maybe there will be four (if boston makes moves to compete now, and the spurs aquire a star like paul) but its a sad reality when litterally no other team has a real reasonable chance of knocking these teams off. its like watching team usa vs some scrub warm up team every game, its just not enjoyable for any fans other than those rooting for the super teams.

tredigs
05-31-2017, 04:35 PM
I wonder, are you going to give the credit so many are to your team if they handle Cleveland no problem, or use it as ammo against LeBron?

Meh, I am hoping for a competitive series, but I am not expecting more than a few games to actually end up competitive by quarter 4. GS in 5, with 2 games of a 15+ win margin is my prediction.

This GS team, playing under the current rules, is the most talented team in modern (post merger) history. I would expect them to continue playing like it. If Cleveland finds it's defense that hasn't been around all year, maybe they make it a series.

I mean, I'll wait to see how the players/teams look in the games before planning on what I will think about the series. My underlying point here is that this is promising to be a much more entertaining NBA Finals than many that came before it. The Cavs offense is playing at an absurd level right now, and we have in fact seen their D step up when needed to in the past, so this team does not need anyone's pity. Granted, I definitely think the Warriors are favorites for a reason.

Hawkeye15
05-31-2017, 04:41 PM
I mean, I'll wait to see how the players/teams look in the games before planning on what I will think about the series. My underlying point here is that this is promising to be a much more entertaining NBA Finals than many that came before it. The Cavs offense is playing at an absurd level right now, and we have in fact seen their D step up when needed to in the past, so this team does not need anyone's pity. Granted, I definitely think the Warriors are favorites for a reason.

Pity? Nah. I simply expect a certain outcome. But, I did last year, then Irving stepped up, Green couldn't help himself, and the Warriors got too cute.

I hope it's competitive man, I need something before another offseason of watching my Wolves do nothing of consequence and suck again.

europagnpilgrim
05-31-2017, 04:44 PM
http://www.sfchronicle.com/warriors/article/NBA-playoffs-predictable-but-no-longer-boring-11178551.php?t=f7a8755472&cmpid=twitter-premium




Paul Pierce compares KD joining the Dubs to a kid befriending his bullies instead of fighting like a proud competitor;

https://twitter.com/JordanHeckFF/status/869642425173778433



Im watching the Finals outta habit but is it plausible that people tune out if its another beatdown? These 2 teams were already a great rivalry, KD nuked it. For those who keep trying to compare it to Bron just stop already. Bron didn't join his enemies, they were already friends and were not in direct contention with each other. KD is Ray Allen in Pierce's mind.

But you have to admit that watching Bron vs Wade was somethingnice for competition, rather they were banana butt buddies or not, they were fun to watch got at it and created a individual rivalry that was good for the nba/viewers to watch

KD was being courted/friended by GS last season, led by his low key best friend Dray Green so it may not be the banana boat public friendship like Bron/Wade/etc but they were cool enough to team up once given the chance that KD had during free agency

J-Relo
05-31-2017, 04:45 PM
I have to agree with Hawkeye15 on this. The talent on GSW is crazy, but at the end of the day it's a team game and let's hope for some competitiveness.

nastynice
05-31-2017, 04:50 PM
The question is... how much will we hear about Kerr being out as an excuse if the Cavs win?

Speaking of which, notice how we are missing our freakin HEAD COACH and we ran thru the west 12-0. Yea, nothing amazing about that :)

Imagine if Lebron's head coach was missing for the playoffs, I know the whoa is me pity party would've started right away, but I'm wondering when it would've ended

Vee-Rex
05-31-2017, 05:00 PM
Speaking of which, notice how we are missing our freakin HEAD COACH and we ran thru the west 12-0. Yea, nothing amazing about that :)

Imagine if Lebron's head coach was missing for the playoffs, I know the whoa is me pity party would've started right away, but I'm wondering when it would've ended

Come on, everyone knows LeBron IS the head coach, GM, and owner. :D

LOb0
05-31-2017, 05:31 PM
I don't think talent wise the teams are super far apart. I just think the Cavs defense is bad.

Heediot
05-31-2017, 05:36 PM
I think Kyrie's overall PLAYOFF value is more vs. Klay's. Yeah Kaly is a better defender, but Kyrie is more reliable and consistent with his contributions overall.

Heediot
05-31-2017, 05:43 PM
GS offense is too much for anyone to handle. Spots 1-4 is perfect for the way the game is played and how the rules are written currently.

I think Cleveland's defense is better than it looks in the regular season and the first two rounds. Even with the switched turned on, there is too much to cover vs. GS.

LOb0
05-31-2017, 05:45 PM
GS offense is too much for anyone to handle. Spots 1-4 is perfect for the way the game is played and how the rules are written currently.

I think Cleveland's defense is better than it looks in the regular season and the first two rounds. Even with the switched turned on, there is too much to cover vs. GS.

Their defense wasn't good as much as Boston and Toronto missed open shot after open shot.

It wasn't horrible but it wasn't good. If the Cavs were a very good defensive team, I'd pick them to win. But they've been bad all year. Talent wise, its not as far apart as people think.

tredigs
05-31-2017, 05:47 PM
Adam Silver weighed in and not surprisingly brought some stability and insight to the discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnm4lTM5Oao

nastynice
05-31-2017, 05:57 PM
I don't think talent wise the teams are super far apart. I just think the Cavs defense is bad.

Yea, the Cavs are stacked. Take the Warriors out of the league and what's the dropoff between the number 1 and number 2, 3 team in the league? Pretty big.

It's just more of the whoa is me lebron pity party, and he himself is trying to pump it up. He's trying to put himself in a no lose situation so he's acting blind to how stacked his team is and doubly mesmerized by how stacked the Warriors are.

Rank players, prob something like..

Cavs - lebron
Dubs - curry
Dubs - KD
Dubs - green
Cavs - Kyrie
Cavs - love
Dubs - Klay

Is that really an out of the ordinary balance for a playoff series? I give it up to lebron tho, he knows how to play the camera, league, and fans

LOb0
05-31-2017, 06:00 PM
Yea, the Cavs are stacked. Take the Warriors out of the league and what's the dropoff between the number 1 and number 2, 3 team in the league? Pretty big.

It's just more of the whoa is me lebron pity party, and he himself is trying to pump it up. He's trying to put himself in a no lose situation so he's acting blind to how stacked his team is and doubly mesmerized by how stacked the Warriors are.

Rank players, prob something like..

Cavs - lebron
Dubs - curry
Dubs - KD
Dubs - green
Cavs - Kyrie
Cavs - love
Dubs - Klay

Is that really an out of the ordinary balance for a playoff series? I give it up to lebron tho, he knows how to play the camera, league, and fans

IDK about a "pity party" but someone needs to be blamed for this bad defense. We could just chalk it up to Cavs having some bad defensive players but, Bron is basically the GM and the leader of that team. He should have cracked the whip harder on these guys and pushed for some help on defense.

That's the one thing that this team is lacking. It's not offense or talent.

mavwar53
05-31-2017, 06:02 PM
Learn to draft and maybe the warriors don't have all this talent, before KD came, Curry drafted 7th, Klay 11th and Draymond 35th or whatever it was.

Yes KD joined but the team already had the building blocks. ***** move by KD or not the Warriors being great started at the draft, them and San Antonio are the only teams that can say that the past 15 years.

More-Than-Most
05-31-2017, 06:18 PM
Adam Silver weighed in and not surprisingly brought some stability and insight to the discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnm4lTM5Oao

What is he suppose to say exactly? He is saving face.. He knows damn well the league is ****ed up and is praying to get as many viewers as possible for the finals because of the let down playoffs.

More-Than-Most
05-31-2017, 06:36 PM
Yea, the Cavs are stacked. Take the Warriors out of the league and what's the dropoff between the number 1 and number 2, 3 team in the league? Pretty big.

It's just more of the whoa is me lebron pity party, and he himself is trying to pump it up. He's trying to put himself in a no lose situation so he's acting blind to how stacked his team is and doubly mesmerized by how stacked the Warriors are.

Rank players, prob something like..

Cavs - lebron
Dubs - curry
Dubs - KD
Dubs - green
Cavs - Kyrie
Cavs - love
Dubs - Klay

Is that really an out of the ordinary balance for a playoff series? I give it up to lebron tho, he knows how to play the camera, league, and fans

No see this is whats ********


Its more like this

Lebron


Durant/Curry

Green



Kyrie/Klay



Love



The gaps show exactly the difference... its not close at all... The warrior fans and lebron haters are the ones trying to say this is close to cover their ***** in case the choke happens again but literally 95 percent of basketball fans have the warriors winning in 5 or 6 with 2 of the games being complete blow outs.... There is nothing more annoying than watching the GOAT teams fan base down play their players when they have 4 of the best players in the game... 2 of the top 3 players in the game and are currently undefeated at 11-0 out west... BUT YO... we are the ones trying to save face.

LOb0
05-31-2017, 06:41 PM
No see this is whats ********


Its more like this

Lebron


Durant/Curry

Green



Kyrie/Klay



Love



The gaps show exactly the difference... its not close at all... The warrior fans and lebron haters are the ones trying to say this is close to cover their ***** in case the choke happens again but literally 95 percent of basketball fans have the warriors winning in 5 or 6 with 2 of the games being complete blow outs.... There is nothing more annoying than watching the GOAT teams fan base down play their players when they have 4 of the best players in the game... 2 of the top 3 players in the game and are currently undefeated at 11-0 out west... BUT YO... we are the ones trying to save face.

They had them like that last year which I totally disagreed with.

I'd have them winning this year, or at least making it close if they had better D. But they don't so GS in 5.

More-Than-Most
05-31-2017, 06:44 PM
They had them like that last year which I totally disagreed with.

I'd have them winning this year, or at least making it close if they had better D. But they don't so GS in 5.

their lack of defense which was one of the worst defenses in basketball was the main reason i gave the celtics/raptors a chance... i was wrong there they upped their defense but the warriors are a team that exposes bad defense where the raptors/celtics dont... their defense is the reason they have no chance this series.

they are 11-0 out west with klay playing like **** lol... my god.

Saddletramp
05-31-2017, 06:59 PM
How do you get 11 wins in 3 best of 7 series?

More-Than-Most
05-31-2017, 07:01 PM
How do you get 11 wins in 3 best of 7 series?

whoops... read the article about the best of 5 playoff series the other day from years ago lol

12-0

Heediot
05-31-2017, 07:02 PM
Yea, the Cavs are stacked. Take the Warriors out of the league and what's the dropoff between the number 1 and number 2, 3 team in the league? Pretty big.



Gap between Cavs and Spurs is closer in comparison, that series is a 6-7 gamer.

Spurs had just as much of a shot in beating GS with a healthy squad as does Cleveland, just my view of it.

More-Than-Most
05-31-2017, 07:03 PM
its annoying... fun note... penguins/patriots/Yankees/90s bulls... their fanbases would flat out ****ing tell you... were the best and were gonna rape... lakers early 2000s... same thing.... As great as all those teams were/are.... the warriors might be one of the best teams ever in any sport but we are suppose to believe that this is a close series? Ok.

More-Than-Most
05-31-2017, 07:04 PM
Gap between Cavs and Spurs is closer in comparison, that series is a 6-7 gamer.

Spurs had just as much of a shot in beating GS with a healthy squad as does Cleveland, just my view of it.

Yup... Cavs and spurs would have been interesting... Most likely a 7 game series.


Warriors










Cavs/Spurs






Everyone else.

More-Than-Most
05-31-2017, 07:06 PM
what is funny is... If 1 of Durant or curry go down right now... The warriors are still favored lol..... Think about that... If one of the top 3 best players in the world drop right now their team is still favored.

Another note... Tre and Nasty tried to make it seem like the blazers stood a chance because they were coming in hot and the Jazz were a threat because they were the next best team and would take the cavs to 7 etc etc etc... Warriors swept both and now its being argued that the cavs are almost as good when they were saying the jazz were better than the cavs weeks ago. Interesting.

JordansBulls
05-31-2017, 07:12 PM
GS came out of no where they weren't a superteam by any means, they built there team the right way.

More-Than-Most
05-31-2017, 07:14 PM
GS came out of no where they weren't a superteam by any means, they built there team the right way.

do you even understand the definition of superteam? Build it/buy it/make it/add to it.... end of the day they are a ****ing superteam. Jesus christ

Saddletramp
05-31-2017, 08:40 PM
what is funny is... If 1 of Durant or curry go down right now... The warriors are still favored lol..... Think about that... If one of the top 3 best players in the world drop right now their team is still favored.

Another note... Tre and Nasty tried to make it seem like the blazers stood a chance because they were coming in hot and the Jazz were a threat because they were the next best team and would take the cavs to 7 etc etc etc... Warriors swept both and now its being argued that the cavs are almost as good when they were saying the jazz were better than the cavs weeks ago. Interesting.

Lol. I remember. Also, tre ain't betting $9k if it's going to be close. He's betting because he knows it'll be a massacre.

flea
05-31-2017, 08:59 PM
JVG is just giving you the media line to hype this as some David vs. Goliath. Definitely not the biggest talent disparity between #1 and #2. Maybe between #2 and #3, and definitely between #3 and #4. Lebron still has his super-team and a collection of role players that perfect fit his skillset. And aren't they still the most expensive team in the league? Ever?

Yeah sorry not buying it. Should be a good series. It better be, it's the only pro basketball worth watching in nearly 2 calendar years.

BKLYNpigeon
05-31-2017, 09:21 PM
Blame the Players or Players Union.

The NBA suggested Salary Cap Smoothing with new influx of money. Instead the Players Union wanted all the money up front. It hurt a lot of teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Wizards, Pelicans, Blazers etc. by offering terrible contracts to average players. At the same time it allowed the Warriors to add KD.

tredigs
05-31-2017, 10:07 PM
What is he suppose to say exactly? He is saving face.. He knows damn well the league is ****ed up and is praying to get as many viewers as possible for the finals because of the let down playoffs.

Lol no, I think he actually has the much more sound, reasoned take on the matter in comparison to the hot takes on the talking head shows and forums. It's called seeing the bigger picture rather than being caught in the moment.

Vee-Rex
05-31-2017, 10:15 PM
Holy agenda-filled blue balls this thread is just plain filthy. Guys swinging for the fences on their narratives.

The sad part about it is it has little to do with GS and more to do with how much people either hate LeBrons guts or are in love with his testicles.

There's a clear talent disparity at the top end of these rosters but in no way does that mean one team is automatically gonna crush the other. I'm cool with GS in 5 predictions but guys are acting like it's impossible for the Cavs to even put up a fight.

nastynice
05-31-2017, 10:33 PM
No see this is whats ********


Its more like this

Lebron


Durant/Curry

Green



Kyrie/Klay



Love



The gaps show exactly the difference... its not close at all... The warrior fans and lebron haters are the ones trying to say this is close to cover their ***** in case the choke happens again but literally 95 percent of basketball fans have the warriors winning in 5 or 6 with 2 of the games being complete blow outs.... There is nothing more annoying than watching the GOAT teams fan base down play their players when they have 4 of the best players in the game... 2 of the top 3 players in the game and are currently undefeated at 11-0 out west... BUT YO... we are the ones trying to save face.

lmao! Is that not what I said? Forgive me for not spacing properly, haha

I got absolutely nothing I save face from. We are gonna wax that ***, I have no doubt, we were not just winning last year but we were BORED after game 4. We had to re up cuz now it makes no difference, the league can side with lebron again, the refs can side with him, it's all good. That's why we got kd. Doesn't matter who sides with him, we full squad and we'll take on anyone.

The only reason I'm brining that up is because people are acting like the Cavs are some sort of poor helpless baby. No, they're stacked the **** up, we just beat them at their own game. With a lower payroll, might I add ;)

nastynice
05-31-2017, 10:36 PM
GS came out of no where they weren't a superteam by any means, they built there team the right way.

All I know is any star not willing to give up the spot light has been crucified for the past 10 years for being selfish.

Now, crucified for the opposite.

Lose lose. Whatever. If you gonna be the bad guy no matter what, might as well get a ring out of it

nastynice
05-31-2017, 10:43 PM
Another note... Tre and Nasty tried to make it seem like the blazers stood a chance because they were coming in hot and the Jazz were a threat because they were the next best team and would take the cavs to 7 etc etc etc... Warriors swept both and now its being argued that the cavs are almost as good when they were saying the jazz were better than the cavs weeks ago. Interesting.

lmaooooo!! I said those teams had a chance of beating us? I said they were better than the Cavs?

Where do you get this **** from?? lol

nastynice
05-31-2017, 10:46 PM
Lol. I remember. Also, tre ain't betting $9k if it's going to be close. He's betting because he knows it'll be a massacre.

I'm ****in hungry! I'm ready to eat!

I got supreme confidence in my squad, I learned last year to hold my tongue, you never know when the nba is gonna suspend curry for shooting too many 3's, or whatever other **** lebron tries n pressure them to do. But I been waiting for this. I'm ready for a beat down!!

Scoots
05-31-2017, 11:27 PM
Na man... we are just using this as an excuse for lebron... gtfo... the only delusional ones are the ones not named cavs fans that think this series will go beyond 5.... Cavs fans I expect are confident and they should be... as an on looker i cant remember ever seeing a more talented team in the warriors... You will need all 3 of the big 3 to play at a legendary level in this series and the sad thing is it still might not be enough... We all hate the warriors but lets not act like we wouldnt want our team doing exactly what the warriors have done... Hell If I am guys like scoots and tre i am getting the goat threads ready the second the warriors win.... the cavs win or lose have nothing to be ashamed of.

Not my style man.

Scoots
05-31-2017, 11:40 PM
Because to say that you're essentially missing your coach and point out the Cavs offense & defense was unusually efficient and peoductive is not only a downplay of your opponent, insinuating that they were never really capable of such an output on a consistent basis, but a means to try and justify why your own team failed to meet expectations. The example screams excuses.

So you are saying there is no difference between analysis and excuses.

If what I said was said by Hubie Brown is it still an excuse? If it's a valid truth if one person says it how does context change it from fact?

Scoots
05-31-2017, 11:43 PM
Learn to draft and maybe the warriors don't have all this talent, before KD came, Curry drafted 7th, Klay 11th and Draymond 35th or whatever it was.

Yes KD joined but the team already had the building blocks. ***** move by KD or not the Warriors being great started at the draft, them and San Antonio are the only teams that can say that the past 15 years.

The Cavs drafted LeBron, Kyrie, and TT, and traded a draft pick for Love. :)

Scoots
05-31-2017, 11:49 PM
its annoying... fun note... penguins/patriots/Yankees/90s bulls... their fanbases would flat out ****ing tell you... were the best and were gonna rape... lakers early 2000s... same thing.... As great as all those teams were/are.... the warriors might be one of the best teams ever in any sport but we are suppose to believe that this is a close series? Ok.

As a Warriors fan I hope the Warriors destroy the Cavs ... but I don't have great confidence it will happen because LeBron.

Scoots
05-31-2017, 11:51 PM
do you even understand the definition of superteam? Build it/buy it/make it/add to it.... end of the day they are a ****ing superteam. Jesus christ

I think a Superteam is like a Supergroup in music. They have to have started and been successful apart then come together.

europagnpilgrim
05-31-2017, 11:54 PM
JVG is just giving you the media line to hype this as some David vs. Goliath. Definitely not the biggest talent disparity between #1 and #2. Maybe between #2 and #3, and definitely between #3 and #4. Lebron still has his super-team and a collection of role players that perfect fit his skillset. And aren't they still the most expensive team in the league? Ever?

Yeah sorry not buying it. Should be a good series. It better be, it's the only pro basketball worth watching in nearly 2 calendar years.

Very well said, its nothing more than this

nastynice
05-31-2017, 11:59 PM
As a Warriors fan I hope the Warriors destroy the Cavs ... but I don't have great confidence it will happen because LeBron.

Oh, you musta not seen KD and curry's eyes. I did. And I'm ready for an absolute *** beating

I want the league to try and help lebron again. I want the refs to try n help them. We gonna stomp em all!

More-Than-Most
06-01-2017, 12:06 AM
Oh, you musta not seen KD and curry's eyes. I did. And I'm ready for an absolute *** beating

I want the league to try and help lebron again. I want the refs to try n help them. We gonna stomp em all!

currys eyes watching the cavs celebrate.... on top of all the crap that happened to his wife etc and how he was dogged after the finals... The look in his eyes watching them celebrate.... Havent seen something like that in a long time where you felt the intensity

FlashBolt
06-01-2017, 12:11 AM
Can't wait for ayesha to open her stupid mouth again talking about how the league is rigged... crazy how she's a basic housewife trying to cook but because Curry has money, she's supposed to be some sorta Gordon Ramsay.. lmao

More-Than-Most
06-01-2017, 12:26 AM
i am not sure who i dislike more... father ball or curry wife.

Sadds The Gr8
06-01-2017, 01:16 AM
Trust me, I hope Cleveland makes it a series. But their defense isn't great, and GS will expose it, badly.

Remember all those shots Cleveland let GS shoot in the corner? That isn't Harrison Barnes anymore, it's Kevin Durant. Curry isn't gimping, and Green isn't hunting sweaty balls. No bailouts this time for the Cavs, they need to overperform to a monster degree to win.

I dont, for the sake of my bank account.

Sadds The Gr8
06-01-2017, 01:20 AM
In before people say Pierce teamed up with KG and Ray.

KG/Ray/Pierce were a "Big 3" but only KG was a transcendent talent. Lebron/Wade both were transcendent talents. Curry/KD both are. That's the part that I think is weak. Linking up with all stars is one thing, but when you have transcendent players teaming up that to me is what ridiculous.

What KD did so far blew Lebron out of the water because he was already on a team with transcendent talent and went to one that had that plus two more all stars and established role players. Lebron didn't have the needed help in CLE and he was starting anew with a team that had to still find the role players and build chemistry.


The thing that pisses me off about that is that when Pierce says it, he better admit that fact (which we know damn well he never would). I don't wanna hear Paul Pierce *****ing about superteams because they started it.

I used to hate it, but I'm numb to it now. I just think Pierce is a ****in hypocrite

nastynice
06-01-2017, 03:01 AM
currys eyes watching the cavs celebrate.... on top of all the crap that happened to his wife etc and how he was dogged after the finals... The look in his eyes watching them celebrate.... Havent seen something like that in a long time where you felt the intensity

Yup. I absolutely love the fact that curry stayed out there and watched them celebrate. That's why he gonna be a killer this finals.

Watch that boy snipe. Watch that boy kill. Yup, you hit the nail on the head, that's the look

nastynice
06-01-2017, 03:04 AM
I want a bogus suspension again, I legit do. I want the league to baby lebron as heavy as they can, I want em all! I know it may rub some other dubs fans the wrong way, but for me, the **** is food.

I'm ready to ****in eat man, cmon already..! Ain't gonna be crow this year baby, the **** just ain't in season

And I'm a wash it alll down with hater tears!!

goingfor28
06-01-2017, 03:21 AM
I want a bogus suspension again, I legit do. I want the league to baby lebron as heavy as they can, I want em all! I know it may rub some other dubs fans the wrong way, but for me, the **** is food.

I'm ready to ****in eat man, cmon already..! Ain't gonna be crow this year baby, the **** just ain't in season

And I'm a wash it alll down with hater tears!!
You sound like a winner.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

nastynice
06-01-2017, 04:01 AM
You sound like a winner.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

:nod:

I wanna keep runnin up the stakes. And if we fall, I'm a take it. I'm a sit here, I'm a absorb it, I'll let you all know I'm absorbing it so go head n let er rip. That bowl of crow will be eaten in public, I'm a let y'all have it. But if that trophy come here, here to Cali, to the gold mutha****in state, I'm a rub it in HARD! Oh I'm a give it ;)

See, my dumb *** didn't pay attention to the last three weeks of the season, and so I had it in my head that my money goes on the vaunted 16-0 playoff run next year, so we have time to gel.

Gel.

That's the thing y'all suckas let go over your head. See, we have gelled. And el oh ****in el, this is gonna be hilarious.

Because the Kawhai injury got everybody confused and thinking we lucked out last round, so they didn't get memo seeing us dismantle the fully healthy Spurs. So this next one, it's gonna be outta left field for everyone. Meaning the popcorn just gonna taste that much better :nod: :cool:

Vee-Rex
06-01-2017, 08:37 AM
We're gonna have to put nastynice on suicide watch if the Warriors lose tonight.

Hawkeye15
06-01-2017, 09:10 AM
GS came out of no where they weren't a superteam by any means, they built there team the right way.

a superteam is just that, a collection of stars. Doesn't matter how you formed it.

Hawkeye15
06-01-2017, 09:12 AM
I think a Superteam is like a Supergroup in music. They have to have started and been successful apart then come together.

interesting take

FOXHOUND
06-01-2017, 10:38 AM
Ya'll ready for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oragndFFa8o

lol meant to put this in the series thread.

Jewelz0376
06-01-2017, 11:01 AM
This is setting up perfect for Lebron. If he loses the series or even gets swept nobody will hold it against him. Everyone will say he went up against the super team of all super teams. If he wins though, he will be seen as a basketball god.

The Warriors may have more talent, but I'm not convinced they are the better team or at least not by this huge margin. The Cavs may have one less all star but they have terrific role players around them. They have Elite shooting with Korver, and JR. They have great defenders/rebounding in Thompson and Shumpert.

That combined with the fact that Curry was underperformed against the Cavs the previous two years and Lebron owns Durant.

Yup I feel like this will be a competitive series.

nastynice
06-01-2017, 12:15 PM
We're gonna have to put nastynice on suicide watch if the Warriors lose tonight.

Haha, I'll shoot the tv before I do that!

Kyben36
06-01-2017, 01:00 PM
this is setting up perfect for lebron. If he loses the series or even gets swept nobody will hold it against him. Everyone will say he went up against the super team of all super teams. If he wins though, he will be seen as a basketball god.

The warriors may have more talent, but i'm not convinced they are the better team or at least not by this huge margin. The cavs may have one less all star but they have terrific role players around them. They have elite shooting with korver, and jr. They have great defenders/rebounding in thompson and shumpert.

That combined with the fact that curry was underperformed against the cavs the previous two years and lebron owns durant.

Yup i feel like this will be a competitive series.

wow, already making excuses for lebron, he is the ****ing one who started the super team bs. Now he cant win at his own game and we dont let him have it, im sorry, bad excuses, if it were somebody else fine, lebron doesnt get that cop out though,

SteBO
06-01-2017, 01:32 PM
wow, already making excuses for lebron, he is the ****ing one who started the super team bs. Now he cant win at his own game and we dont let him have it, im sorry, bad excuses, if it were somebody else fine, lebron doesnt get that cop out though,
What was your take on the Celtics and Lakers running the league in the 80s? If possible, try leaving out how they were formed because that ceases to matter, given that a superteam is a superteam.

SteBO
06-01-2017, 01:35 PM
So you are saying there is no difference between analysis and excuses.

If what I said was said by Hubie Brown is it still an excuse? If it's a valid truth if one person says it how does context change it from fact?
I'd say narrative is key here. It's only an excuse if you're using it as a means to downplay or discredit the opponent. Doesn't matter who says it.

Hawkeye15
06-01-2017, 01:40 PM
What was your take on the Celtics and Lakers running the league in the 80s? If possible, try leaving out how they were formed because that ceases to matter, given that a superteam is a superteam.

I would be shocked if he is even familiar that Magic lost a series with a superteam, to a sub .500 squad, and his Lakers rarely played a great team until the finals rolled around. Meh

Sly Guy
06-01-2017, 02:41 PM
While I agree this GS team is the best 'superteam' we've ever seen, better than Miami or Boston, it doesn't change the fact that this team is merely an extension of what's been happening to the league in the last decade or so. Leaving Bron & the banana boat crew, or Pierce and big mouthed KG out of the story doesn't tell the whole thing.

If the lack of competitive playoffs (and I'd even argue regular season for the top 10-ish teams) seems like a boring thing, then it's important to recognize this GS team is part of a bigger trend for the league overall.

Hawkeye15
06-01-2017, 02:45 PM
While I agree this GS team is the best 'superteam' we've ever seen, better than Miami or Boston, it doesn't change the fact that this team is merely an extension of what's been happening to the league in the last decade or so. Leaving Bron & the banana boat crew, or Pierce and big mouthed KG out of the story doesn't tell the whole thing.

If the lack of competitive playoffs (and I'd even argue regular season for the top 10-ish teams) seems like a boring thing, then it's important to recognize this GS team is part of a bigger trend for the league overall.

to be fair, it's the trend for most under 30-35 in the US.

mightybosstone
06-01-2017, 03:04 PM
I love JVG and usually agree with most of his takes, but I'm not totally in agreement here. If we're talking about regular season production and talent at face value, he's got a case. But postseason production and value has to factor in at some point.

For example, Kyrie Irving historically has always been a guy who steps up in the playoffs, and his production is every bit as solid in the playoffs this year as it was in the regular season. Even Love's number are as good (and arguably better) this postseason than in the regular season. Tristan Thompson is also a guy I'd lump into that conversation. On the flip side, Klay Thompson has been abysmal in this postseason so far, and while he's been exceptionally bad for him, that's pretty par for the course. Steph also has not been historically great in the Finals.

And all of that is before you consider Lebron, who is having one of the all-time great "extra gear in the playoffs" seasons in the history of professional sports. So while the talent in a vacuum is clearly in favor of Golden State, I'd argue that Cleveland's talent sees a boost in the playoffs while the Warriors historically have seen a dropoff in postseason production, leveling the playing field a bit.

JLynn943
06-01-2017, 03:37 PM
I mean, JVG is right.

D-Leethal
06-01-2017, 03:47 PM
JVG said Miami was going to easily break the 72 win record and breeze to multiple titles too. Just sayin'. He is a bit of an overreactor. KD is a ***** tho.

papipapsmanny
06-01-2017, 04:09 PM
Furthermore, we know Wade declined big time after year 1 in the big 3. I just can't see that happening with GS's stars, who are all in their peaks.

To the point of what Van Gundy said, he is right. Anyone trying to justify Cleveland being an equal is basically either in denial, or setting up their argument to dump on LeBron.

GS is the most talented team in NBA history. Easily. Anything less than a championship, unless it's due to injuries to a couple of the Warriors over the next 2 weeks, is a monster choke job.

To What? 20+ points per game shooting over 50%. Yeah he was a real chump, and then that slouch Bosh was just averaging 17.5 point per game during that span shooting over 50%


This Golden State team is certainly the best team anyone has faced in the Finals other than maybe the teams facing the Bulls.

Let's not pretend the Cavaliers are Lebron and a bunch of role players again. Lebron is playing with two future HOFs unless Love and Irving just completely fall off the map going forward. And I would say has a better and deeper bench.

The key difference maker is Green. KD/Curry/Thompson would get a slight edge over Lebron/Irving/Love, defintely better but not loads better.

The Cavs just don't have someone like Green to match him, but they do have a deeper supporting Cast with Thompson/Williams/Korver/Smith/Shumpert/Frye/Jefferson.

I agree with the notion that this is the best team anyone has faced in the Ship over the last decade, but I don't agree with the talent discrepancy. These teams are constructed to beat each other. There have definitely been championships with more talent discrepancy. Imo at least

Jeffy25
06-01-2017, 04:55 PM
To the point of what Van Gundy said, he is right. Anyone trying to justify Cleveland being an equal is basically either in denial, or setting up their argument to dump on LeBron.

This above all else said in this thread.

This Warriors team is probably the greatest built team ever.

papipapsmanny
06-01-2017, 05:08 PM
This above all else said in this thread.

This Warriors team is probably the greatest built team ever.

Possibly, but the components of those Bull's teams during the 2nd three beat meshed so perfectly. You had batman, with the perfect Robin, with one of the most dominant rebounders and post defenders ever, with multiple really good wing defenders. Also had a PG who was very smart and extremely efficient with a great outside shot.

I think they could match up with this Warriors team, it would really depend on how well Pippen could contain Durant.

But to your first point. I don't think the Cavs are equal, but I can argue that they are insanely talented themselves and constructed in a way to beat the Warriors. Mainly they have better depth, and Tristian Thompson sees to be a mild form of kryptonite to the Warriors (obviously not scoring wise), but he really got them on the boards last year

Hawkeye15
06-01-2017, 05:10 PM
To What? 20+ points per game shooting over 50%. Yeah he was a real chump, and then that slouch Bosh was just averaging 17.5 point per game during that span shooting over 50%


This Golden State team is certainly the best team anyone has faced in the Finals other than maybe the teams facing the Bulls.

Let's not pretend the Cavaliers are Lebron and a bunch of role players again. Lebron is playing with two future HOFs unless Love and Irving just completely fall off the map going forward. And I would say has a better and deeper bench.

The key difference maker is Green. KD/Curry/Thompson would get a slight edge over Lebron/Irving/Love, defintely better but not loads better.

The Cavs just don't have someone like Green to match him, but they do have a deeper supporting Cast with Thompson/Williams/Korver/Smith/Shumpert/Frye/Jefferson.

I agree with the notion that this is the best team anyone has faced in the Ship over the last decade, but I don't agree with the talent discrepancy. These teams are constructed to beat each other. There have definitely been championships with more talent discrepancy. Imo at least

pull the playoff numbers post 2011 for Wade. He had moments where he looked like Wade, and moments where he looked flat out bad. He even had a few series that were terrible by his standards. Wade, post 2011, was never the same, and can't possibly be considered a superstar player. Bosh, I have touched on. The dude made how many all NBA teams? He did what exactly prior to playing next to LeBron/Wade? He is seriously overrated on this board. He was relegated to a defender who could stretch the floor some in Miami, far from an elite PF.

Wait, KD/Curry/Thompson get a SLIGHT edge? Cmon. Curry is a 2 time MVP, all NBA member, future top 20 player ever. Love/Irving are on Thompson level as far as impact.

The talent disparity is real. GS is ridiculously talented. More top heavy than any team in history.

I am just hoping for a competitive series, I am sick of talking about it at this point.

kdspurman
06-01-2017, 05:25 PM
JVG said Miami was going to easily break the 72 win record and breeze to multiple titles too. Just sayin'. He is a bit of an overreactor. KD is a ***** tho.

Yea, I was going to bring up the stuff he said re: Miami and the records they would break too lol.

It never turns out the way these guys predict in the heat of the moment.

papipapsmanny
06-01-2017, 07:00 PM
pull the playoff numbers post 2011 for Wade. He had moments where he looked like Wade, and moments where he looked flat out bad. He even had a few series that were terrible by his standards. Wade, post 2011, was never the same, and can't possibly be considered a superstar player. Bosh, I have touched on. The dude made how many all NBA teams? He did what exactly prior to playing next to LeBron/Wade? He is seriously overrated on this board. He was relegated to a defender who could stretch the floor some in Miami, far from an elite PF.

Wait, KD/Curry/Thompson get a SLIGHT edge? Cmon. Curry is a 2 time MVP, all NBA member, future top 20 player ever. Love/Irving are on Thompson level as far as impact.

The talent disparity is real. GS is ridiculously talented. More top heavy than any team in history.

I am just hoping for a competitive series, I am sick of talking about it at this point.

Bosh put up 24-10 per game on over 51% shooting the year prior to joining the Heat..... and Dude Wade averaged over 21 a game on 47% shooting the year after Lebron left, while Bosh averaged over 21 on 46% shooting that year. I am not sure what that argument is.... Yeah Wade fell from a 25+ per game efficient player to a 20+ per game efficient player at some point during his years with Lebron..... okay.

But as for this thread and your second point. This year how much difference in production was there between Curry and Irving? ..... I don't see much.

Thompson is better than Love fore sure, but not by some crazy margin. Green is what the Cavs do not have an answer to. I'd argue the Cavs have a deeper bench.

I certainly agree the Warriors have more talent, but I don't think it is by some outrageous margin, and certainly not the biggest talent discrepancy in the finals ever... imo.

We'll see how it goes soon enough here

krazylegz
06-01-2017, 07:02 PM
the crow that will be served by mid june is going to be extra greasy

FlashBolt
06-01-2017, 07:18 PM
Bosh put up 24-10 per game on over 51% shooting the year prior to joining the Heat..... and Dude Wade averaged over 21 a game on 47% shooting the year after Lebron left, while Bosh averaged over 21 on 46% shooting that year. I am not sure what that argument is.... Yeah Wade fell from a 25+ per game efficient player to a 20+ per game efficient player at some point during his years with Lebron..... okay.

But as for this thread and your second point. This year how much difference in production was there between Curry and Irving? ..... I don't see much.

Thompson is better than Love fore sure, but not by some crazy margin. Green is what the Cavs do not have an answer too. I'd argue the Cavs have a deeper bench.

I certain agree the Warriors have more talent, but I don't think it is by some outrageous margin, and certainly not the biggest talent discrepancy in the finals ever... imo.

We'll see how it goes soon enough here

1) Who cares what Bosh did before? Did he put up 24-10 in Miami? Nope. It's obvious Bosh generates those numbers as a #1 option but couldn't translate a higher level of performance in a championship team role. That's why Bosh had to play more defensive. But he was far from an elite level player. It wasn't uncommon for Bosh to get dominated in the boards and since Bosh is rather slim, he had trouble defending guys like Al J., Hibbert, David West, etc., Go look at his playoffs series with Miami. He lost more h2h battles at his position than he won. His team defense is literally the only part of his game that significantly improved. And "dude", Wade was missing upwards of 35% of the regular season to rehab his knee. I'm not saying he wasn't an All-Star level player but he was far from the Wade we know of 08-09.

2) Difference is we know what Curry is capable of. Kyrie at his peak was never at Curry's peak. Production dropped because GSW is loaded with talent whereas Kyrie before LeBron got there wasn't doing much anyways. Curry is clearly the better player.

3) Yup, Cavs have a deeper bench. Only question is if they can play defense because that's going to be key.

4) It is by an outrageous margin. The simple fact is, it was a large margin even before they got KD. Warriors have the talent, Cavs have the veterans.

hugepatsfan
06-01-2017, 07:38 PM
I agree with Jerry Wests take... I enjoy excellence but I want it to be challenged. Talk he might join LAC for the challenge. Glad to hear he has more competitive spirit than a certain player on his team.

Scoots
06-01-2017, 08:18 PM
I agree with Jerry Wests take... I enjoy excellence but I want it to be challenged. Talk he might join LAC for the challenge. Glad to hear he has more competitive spirit than a certain player on his team.

I think when he said he wanted to leave he was talking about leaving the game where the Warriors were blowing the opponent out.

papipapsmanny
06-01-2017, 08:27 PM
1) Who cares what Bosh did before? Did he put up 24-10 in Miami? Nope. It's obvious Bosh generates those numbers as a #1 option but couldn't translate a higher level of performance in a championship team role. That's why Bosh had to play more defensive. But he was far from an elite level player. It wasn't uncommon for Bosh to get dominated in the boards and since Bosh is rather slim, he had trouble defending guys like Al J., Hibbert, David West, etc., Go look at his playoffs series with Miami. He lost more h2h battles at his position than he won. His team defense is literally the only part of his game that significantly improved. And "dude", Wade was missing upwards of 35% of the regular season to rehab his knee. I'm not saying he wasn't an All-Star level player but he was far from the Wade we know of 08-09.

2) Difference is we know what Curry is capable of. Kyrie at his peak was never at Curry's peak. Production dropped because GSW is loaded with talent whereas Kyrie before LeBron got there wasn't doing much anyways. Curry is clearly the better player.

3) Yup, Cavs have a deeper bench. Only question is if they can play defense because that's going to be key.

4) It is by an outrageous margin. The simple fact is, it was a large margin even before they got KD. Warriors have the talent, Cavs have the veterans.

This is a bit all over the place. So Curry numbers are down because the team is loaded with talent but that same logic doesn't apply for Bosh, who was taking 3-4 less shots per game in Miami than his days in Toronto.

Curry and Irving's rate stats are almost identical this year, and I didn't realize Irving is at his peak, he is 4 year younger than Curry. Career wise so far Curry is definitely better. This year, they have virtually been the same. Curry wasn't doing much before Lebron got there? As a 20 year old he averaged over 22 points per game a game on 45% shooting. And again you got Love who has averaged a 26 and 12 season and another 26 and 13 season.

But I am supposed to believe that all 4 of these guys were/are top 15 players in the league but actually weren't all that good when Lebron got there to join them. I don't understand why it is so hard for people to admit that Lebron has had and has superb help (other than his first Cleveland run).

The talent discrepancy between the two teams again, imo, is not that crazy, and again not the biggest discrepancy between the top two leagues in the history of the league

kdspurman
06-01-2017, 09:29 PM
I love JVG and usually agree with most of his takes, but I'm not totally in agreement here. If we're talking about regular season production and talent at face value, he's got a case. But postseason production and value has to factor in at some point.

For example, Kyrie Irving historically has always been a guy who steps up in the playoffs, and his production is every bit as solid in the playoffs this year as it was in the regular season. Even Love's number are as good (and arguably better) this postseason than in the regular season. Tristan Thompson is also a guy I'd lump into that conversation. On the flip side, Klay Thompson has been abysmal in this postseason so far, and while he's been exceptionally bad for him, that's pretty par for the course. Steph also has not been historically great in the Finals.

And all of that is before you consider Lebron, who is having one of the all-time great "extra gear in the playoffs" seasons in the history of professional sports. So while the talent in a vacuum is clearly in favor of Golden State, I'd argue that Cleveland's talent sees a boost in the playoffs while the Warriors historically have seen a dropoff in postseason production, leveling the playing field a bit.

Agreed. The discrepancy is not as great as folks are making it seems as it stands now.

D-Leethal
06-01-2017, 10:32 PM
What did Jerry West say?

lol, please
06-02-2017, 12:44 AM
Also, in before Golden State fans criticize all of us as not being competitive enough to just root for GMs to build better teams. This of course as a defense for Durant, an actual competitor on the court, not being competitive enough to go against GS.

Sorry but the tears are marvelous. And while this is the best team in history, there has always been a dominating force in history, so let's not act like we haven't seen this before - Celtics, Lakers, Sixers, now it's the Warriors turn to have a dynasty.

More-Than-Most
06-02-2017, 12:49 AM
Sorry but the tears are marvelous. And while this is the best team in history, there has always been a dominating force in history, so let's not act like we haven't seen this before - Celtics, Lakers, Sixers, now it's the Warriors turn to have a dynasty.

I dont think we have seen this before... its like the warriors didnt even try tonight and they still went up by 24... they are about to go 16-0 or 16-1.... But we are the idiots when we said how lopsided this would be.

lol, please
06-02-2017, 12:50 AM
lmaooooo!! I said those teams had a chance of beating us? I said they were better than the Cavs?

Where do you get this **** from?? lol

It was Tredigs and me, not you lol.

The Jazz and Blazers do take the Cavaliers to 7. The West is way deeper and more top heavy than the East, it's hilarious how people forget that when they talk about Lebron's runs. Outside of the Raptors the last two season and the Celtics this season, he's had no resistance. He'd be a second round exit regular in the West. He knows it, and his fans know it, and they hate that we know it.

nastynice
06-02-2017, 02:35 AM
It was Tredigs and me, not you lol.

The Jazz and Blazers do take the Cavaliers to 7. The West is way deeper and more top heavy than the East, it's hilarious how people forget that when they talk about Lebron's runs. Outside of the Raptors the last two season and the Celtics this season, he's had no resistance. He'd be a second round exit regular in the West. He knows it, and his fans know it, and they hate that we know it.

They're both solid squads, they're both more than enough competition expected for a one seed in the first two rounds. Def never felt either would beat us.

I also wanna say neither are as good as the Cavs, but tonight kinda reminded me just how pathetic the east is, and how good a mediocre team can look in that conference. Maybe they are just as good, I don't know, lol

Chronz
06-02-2017, 11:58 AM
Anyone watch beyond halftime?

valade16
06-03-2017, 08:40 PM
If anything the discrepancy seems greater than we all thought...

Scoots
06-04-2017, 10:29 AM
Listening to Cleveland sports radio I think they seem overly confident "The Cavs were keeping tactics a secret and they will unleash them for game 2" and "Mike Brown can't make any adjustments so when the genius Lue throws some changes at the Warriors they will collapse"

That said, I don't think anybody on the Warriors side is going to relax until 4 wins are on the books.

Storch
06-04-2017, 11:25 AM
Lebron the the warriors next season, book it

hugepatsfan
06-04-2017, 06:38 PM
If the Pelicans gave Anthony Davis to the Cavs the Warriors are still probably a little better on paper. Think about that...

Chronz
06-04-2017, 07:36 PM
If the Pelicans gave Anthony Davis to the Cavs the Warriors are still probably a little better on paper. Think about that...
What other finals come to mind for you that were comparatively disproportionate in terms of talent?

Heediot
06-04-2017, 07:44 PM
If the Pelicans gave Anthony Davis to the Cavs the Warriors are still probably a little better on paper. Think about that...

I got Cavs, if Davis was on the team.

hugepatsfan
06-04-2017, 07:49 PM
I got Cavs, if Davis was on the team.

It's close. The top 8 would be:

Lebron
Curry/Durant
AD
Green
Klay
Kyrie
Love

GS has the better stars when you group like that

I'd say TT and Iggy are about equal. CLE's other role players are probably a little better but whenbrotations shorten those guys become less important.

The fact that just adding an all-NBA player makes you still still debate it is just absurd. That's the larger point.

hugepatsfan
06-04-2017, 07:49 PM
What other finals come to mind for you that were comparatively disproportionate in terms of talent?

AI vs the Lakers? IDK honestly.

Chronz
06-04-2017, 08:52 PM
AI vs the Lakers? IDK honestly.
Yeah that's a good one

Raps18-19 Champ
06-04-2017, 10:46 PM
Curry was the 3rd best Warrior tonight and had a triple double... That's more than enough to tell you the talent differential is crazy.

Crackadalic
06-04-2017, 11:17 PM
It's like if Hakeem join the 96 bulls. Thats how good this warriors team is compared to everyone else

Bostonjorge
06-04-2017, 11:31 PM
This series is not the biggest talent diffenatal.

Dallas vs Miami was the biggest talent differential and the leaser talnted team won. If Dallas can pull it off with no James on the team then a team with James should be fine.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-05-2017, 12:52 AM
This series is not the biggest talent diffenatal.

Dallas vs Miami was the biggest talent differential and the leaser talnted team won. If Dallas can pull it off with no James on the team then a team with James should be fine.

Not sure how you can compare it. When Lebron choked, the advantage the Heat had against the Mavs disappeared.

If 1 player on Warriors choke, they have 3 other top 20 players to more than make up for it.

Chronz
06-05-2017, 01:17 AM
Not sure how you can compare it. When Lebron choked, the advantage the Heat had against the Mavs disappeared.

If 1 player on Warriors choke, they have 3 other top 20 players to more than make up for it.
You're crushing **** lately

Bostonjorge
06-05-2017, 01:39 AM
Not sure how you can compare it. When Lebron choked, the advantage the Heat had against the Mavs disappeared.

If 1 player on Warriors choke, they have 3 other top 20 players to more than make up for it.

No James became the dis advantage. Dallas had 1 top 5-10 player in the team that's it. Miami still had 2 top 10 players in Wade and Bosh. Wade was also a better player then Dirk and already defeated a younger Dirk by total domination. While Dirk choked many times more over the next couple of years.

James had to choke like no one ever with the way Wade and Bosh where playing. Yet James rose to the occasion and did just that. Wade out played Dirk(out scoring him on better efficiency) and Bosh was playing championship basketball. James 11 points in all 4th quarters heading into the elimination game is what cost Wade a ring. Wade greatness couldn't even carry this James against a lesser team. James was Dallas advantage over Miami.

JordansBulls
06-05-2017, 01:50 AM
I actually think the Cavs have more talent in this series. Lebron, Kyrie, Love, Deron, Kyle, Tristan, JR to name a few guys with everyone in there prime at that. That is comparable to having the 1983 Sixers, 1986 Celtics while the Warriors are the 1983 and 1986 Lakers.

goingfor28
06-05-2017, 02:01 AM
We're gonna have to put nastynice on suicide watch if the Warriors lose tonight.
And teach him English

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

nastynice
06-05-2017, 02:07 AM
lol, long as dubs keep rolling no suicide watch necessary :)

Too late for the English tho, I speaks how I speaks

Saddletramp
06-05-2017, 03:45 AM
I actually think the Cavs have more talent in this series. Lebron, Kyrie, Love, Deron, Kyle, Tristan, JR to name a few guys with everyone in there prime at that. That is comparable to having the 1983 Sixers, 1986 Celtics while the Warriors are the 1983 and 1986 Lakers.

Not sure if serious? Nah, just kidding. I know you're serious. And that's sad.

hugepatsfan
06-05-2017, 09:20 AM
I actually think the Cavs have more talent in this series. Lebron, Kyrie, Love, Deron, Kyle, Tristan, JR to name a few guys with everyone in there prime at that. That is comparable to having the 1983 Sixers, 1986 Celtics while the Warriors are the 1983 and 1986 Lakers.

The Cavs absolutely are comparable to those teams. The Warriors were comparable to those teams. Then they added Durant and now they're a tier above where anyone has ever been.

Scoots
06-05-2017, 09:20 AM
It's not just the Warriors talent, it's that they maximize the talent they have better than most because of the system they run and because they have all bought in on offense and on defense.

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2017, 09:24 AM
Cleveland is seriously about to shock the world.

:laugh2:

Rivera
06-05-2017, 10:09 AM
ugh looks like i let my hopes get the best of me, hoping this would be competitive so I can actually get good basketball to watch. the 1st half of both games have been VERY entertaining but yea after that

im hoping history repeats itself and we get good basketball but i just dont think so :sigh:

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2017, 10:17 AM
ugh looks like i let my hopes get the best of me, hoping this would be competitive so I can actually get good basketball to watch. the 1st half of both games have been VERY entertaining but yea after that

im hoping history repeats itself and we get good basketball but i just dont think so :sigh:

Next game will be the most competitive one of the series.

RowBTrice
06-05-2017, 10:22 AM
Next game will be the most competitive one of the series.

The Warriors are going to keep hearing people say this, get even more motivated, and then win by 30

TrueFan420
06-05-2017, 10:27 AM
It's not just the Warriors talent, it's that they maximize the talent they have better than most because of the system they run and because they have all bought in on offense and on defense.

This definately goes overlooked. It's hard to buy into a coach when your teams best player underminds him and the GM.

D-Leethal
06-05-2017, 10:41 AM
It's not just the Warriors talent, it's that they maximize the talent they have better than most because of the system they run and because they have all bought in on offense and on defense.

That is true but they still have more talent than any team ever. You can definitely see that the way they play a 5-man system makes them so difficult to guard, whereas on the Cavs it's usually their stars taking turns rather them playing a free flowing game off each other. The same thing happened in Miami with Bron - it's part of his playing style. He is best when the floor is spaced and guys are standing still waiting for kickouts. Against a great defensive team that lends itself to ugly trade-off basketball.

BKLYNpigeon
06-05-2017, 10:47 AM
GM Lebron built this Cavs roster.

you can talk about how much better the Warriors are, but Cavs deserve some blame for how bad they have playing.


they would have an interesting offseason if they lose the finals. LeBron isn't getting any younger.

carlessyen
06-05-2017, 10:53 AM
I really think TT,jr smith,
and love have to be traded this off season for them to compete.
to much payroll really weak bench. I think if Wiggins was out there instead of Love be more competitive and far better defensively. Ive been a cavs fan over 30 years I dont mind to lose these finals. I just hate all the Lebron hate i see for it on social media. Cause they lose this it takes away from his legacy. The guy ended the run of a 70win team last year, and came back from 3-1 never been done before and they go and add another future HOFr so hes playing a team with four HOFrs in their prime but yet it dimenishes his legacy BS.

Rivera
06-05-2017, 10:54 AM
Next game will be the most competitive one of the series.

:jumpy: i need false hope thinking the Cavs can do what they did last year! I need good basketball! I feel like a fiend. I am just waiting on a game to come down to the wire with 2 teams battling out at a high level

is that too much to ask? is that really to much to ask????? :sigh:

Hawkeye15
06-05-2017, 10:56 AM
I really think TT,jr smith,
and love have to be traded this off season for them to compete.

Love might be moveable, but have you seen what TT, and Smith make? Who the hell is taking those deals on? TT is a nice role player, but at his money, you need more than decent defense and offensive rebounding.

Love being traded might make sense, but what out there gets them better? The Cavs are what they are. A top heavy team, with bad defense, and good offense. LeBron is great and everything, but he isn't the defender he used to be, and his 2 all star teammates are terrible defenders. They are an excellent team, but GS is a legendary team.

D-Leethal
06-05-2017, 10:56 AM
GM Lebron built this Cavs roster.

you can talk about how much better the Warriors are, but Cavs deserve some blame for how bad they have playing.


they would have an interesting offseason if they lose the finals. LeBron isn't getting any younger.

I think GM LeBron built a team that could hang with the 73-win Warriors year after year. But his team was maxed out at that level and the Warriors added Kevin Durant. Now you get what you get.

D-Leethal
06-05-2017, 10:59 AM
Yea I think the only type of team that has a shot against these Warriors is an all-time great defensive juggernaut. I don't see how the Cavs can transform into that.

FlashBolt
06-05-2017, 11:01 AM
The hard reality is, Cavs are maxed out. They didn't plan on KD going to the Warriors and now their GM will probably go to a new team. I expected TT to be more of a force. He was completely worth it the past two Finals but this one? IDK, Kardashian curse must be biting him. J.R. Smith was more concerned about retweeting golfing articles after the game than anything else. He hasn't been useful all season. I'm not even sure what D.Will is doing. Why the hell did Derrick Williams not get any minutes at all once again? 6'8 quick and energetic. Cavs need someone like that guy but instead, they play D.Will there who hasn't done a thing.

Hawkeye15
06-05-2017, 11:03 AM
Yea I think the only type of team that has a shot against these Warriors is an all-time great defensive juggernaut. I don't see how the Cavs can transform into that.

yep. As long as GS can run their little weave, motion offense 30 feet from the rim without being interrupted, they will shake free for easy shots. You can't give too much attention to any one man, since they have 3 of the greatest shooters (2 of the greatest I have seen) in the league. They are dangerous from 30 feet an in, and with multiple players that can shoot, create, and finish. Just devastating. The only team that could limit them would do it at the point of attack, and create such a physical, pain staking offensive set, that it might be able to limit them.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a team, under modern rules, that makes sense. It would have to be a team that can switch on picks without missing a beat, and rebound the basketball in space.

valade16
06-05-2017, 11:07 AM
I actually think the Cavs have more talent in this series. Lebron, Kyrie, Love, Deron, Kyle, Tristan, JR to name a few guys with everyone in there prime at that. That is comparable to having the 1983 Sixers, 1986 Celtics while the Warriors are the 1983 and 1986 Lakers.

Everyone in their prime? Laughable statement.

carlessyen
06-05-2017, 11:22 AM
Jordan couldn't beat this warriors team, bot with any of the Bulls teams he was on. If he teamed up he'd do it easy, but not without adding another talent to the team. Let's say for example another great defending PG like Payton Warriors wouldnt have a chance, but with any Bulls roster and the defense they had at PG no way.

Vinylman
06-05-2017, 11:29 AM
they came together after their peaks however (2 via trade). Imagine if they came together in 2003, and just happened to have a 4th all star in his peak with them just for fun...that is GS.

Who beats 2003 versions of KG, Allen, Pierce, and toss in 2003 Peja Stojakovic just for fun...

seriously people, that is what GS is/did.

yep... there is no point in arguing with people who try and downplay how stacked GS is right now.

FlashBolt
06-05-2017, 12:05 PM
2017 Warriors would be:

CP3 at his prime
LeBron at his prime
Bosh at his prime
Wade at his prime

Against Kobe's Lakers.

Any of you think Kobe wins?

Scoots
06-05-2017, 12:33 PM
That is true but they still have more talent than any team ever. You can definitely see that the way they play a 5-man system makes them so difficult to guard, whereas on the Cavs it's usually their stars taking turns rather them playing a free flowing game off each other. The same thing happened in Miami with Bron - it's part of his playing style. He is best when the floor is spaced and guys are standing still waiting for kickouts. Against a great defensive team that lends itself to ugly trade-off basketball.

I agree ... and the system is a big part of what helped them get KD.

Hawkeye15
06-05-2017, 12:48 PM
I agree ... and the system is a big part of what helped them get KD.

oh for sure. To be fair, nobody should be giving crap to GS's front office. They hit it out of the park, hell out of the universe, with their decision making leading up to the summer of 2016.

nastynice
06-05-2017, 02:10 PM
Next game will be the most competitive one of the series.

I think it's gonna be the biggest smack down. Last year we came out over confident and lost game 3, I feel we won't let that repeat, plus it's in Cleveland and if folks ain't noticed they will in game 3. We're not here to beat the Cavs, like Draymond said, we are gonna annihilate them.

The thorough break down and dismantling of not only this team, but of the worlds best player for the past decade, has to take place in Cleveland so they can understand who runs this league. If game 3 ends and the game 4 odds for us are anything less than 100%, then we didn't perform how we are supposed to in game 3.

Been waiting a year for his, not for a ring, but to show all the haters just how truly hopeless it is. The **** is over. We're the Harlem ****in globetrotters. This is what happens when the league steps in and gift wraps lebron a championship at our expense. We gonna run this mother****er now. They can suspend whoever they want now, makes no diff, lmao!!

Scoots
06-05-2017, 02:33 PM
oh for sure. To be fair, nobody should be giving crap to GS's front office. They hit it out of the park, hell out of the universe, with their decision making leading up to the summer of 2016.

Yeah ... it's actually amazing. And their young players have been showing really well too. Pat McCaw who they bought from the Bucks for less than the Cavs spent on Kay Felder looks like a total steal and I expect a huge jump in his game next year. Damian Jones who they picked up with the last pick in the first last year because he was injured ... when he finally got healthy he dominated and got player of the month in the d-league. Kevon Looney is a natural rebounder and has some offensive skills ... if he can ever stay healthy.

I do wonder if their losses in the front office over the last few years will reduce their hit rate on draft picks and UDFAs significantly.

FlashBolt
06-05-2017, 02:34 PM
Yeah ... it's actually amazing. And their young players have been showing really well too. Pat McCaw who they bought from the Bucks for less than the Cavs spent on Kay Felder looks like a total steal and I expect a huge jump in his game next year. Damian Jones who they picked up with the last pick in the first last year because he was injured ... when he finally got healthy he dominated and got player of the month in the d-league. Kevon Looney is a natural rebounder and has some offensive skills ... if he can ever stay healthy.

I do wonder if their losses in the front office over the last few years will reduce their hit rate on draft picks and UDFAs significantly.

If you merged the Clippers and Spurs together, I probably still pick the Warriors. That's how great the Warriors have been in managing that team.

Bostonjorge
06-05-2017, 02:53 PM
If you merged the Clippers and Spurs together, I probably still pick the Warriors. That's how great the Warriors have been in managing that team.

Come on now. Spurs where about to take a series lead and take home court advantage. That's also with zero Clippers players. Coach POP figured something out. Maybe coach James needs to let someone else coach the team.

Chronz
06-05-2017, 03:19 PM
Come on now. Spurs where about to take a series lead and take home court advantage. That's also with zero Clippers players. Coach POP figured something out. Maybe coach James needs to let someone else coach the team.

A half of ball where they proceeded to get swept anyways, thats not very convincing. Pops and Bron already have a relationship, it would be 2 of the best minds in the game trying their best to outsmart the opposition. Kind of how it works

Bostonjorge
06-05-2017, 03:37 PM
A half of ball where they proceeded to get swept anyways, thats not very convincing. Pops and Bron already have a relationship, it would be 2 of the best minds in the game trying their best to outsmart the opposition. Kind of how it works

Before Parker and Leonard both went down they had the game in the bag. I still think GS would of found a way to win the series but Leonard coached by POP made GS look beatable. Leonard was making Durant look like a non difference maker. Lebron is making GS look unbeatable and the guy James is guarding(Durant) is starting to look like the a GOAT.

kdspurman
06-05-2017, 04:21 PM
A half of ball where they proceeded to get swept anyways, thats not very convincing. Pops and Bron already have a relationship, it would be 2 of the best minds in the game trying their best to outsmart the opposition. Kind of how it works

Def weren't getting swept had Kawhi never got injured.

Chronz
06-05-2017, 04:56 PM
Before Parker and Leonard both went down they had the game in the bag. I still think GS would of found a way to win the series but Leonard coached by POP made GS look beatable. Leonard was making Durant look like a non difference maker. Lebron is making GS look unbeatable and the guy James is guarding(Durant) is starting to look like the a GOAT.

A half of ball where they proceeded to get swept anyways, thats not very convincing. Pops and Bron already have a relationship, it would be 2 of the best minds in the game trying their best to outsmart the opposition. Kind of how it works

Kawhi being better defender isn't anything new not sure why you think that's ground breaking or having anything to do with the point that your argument is shallow

Chronz
06-05-2017, 04:57 PM
Def weren't getting swept had Kawhi never got injured.prolly in 5

D-Leethal
06-05-2017, 05:57 PM
Before Parker and Leonard both went down they had the game in the bag. I still think GS would of found a way to win the series but Leonard coached by POP made GS look beatable. Leonard was making Durant look like a non difference maker. Lebron is making GS look unbeatable and the guy James is guarding(Durant) is starting to look like the a GOAT.

You can't fully fault LeBron defensively for KD. When the team has no idea how to stop the other team as a unit every individual is gonna look bad. The rotations become a mess and everyone is caught out of position trying to make up for it. Spurs had the best gameplan to defend the Warriors, that shouldn't surprise anyone. Warriors rarely iso anyone so it truly takes 5 guys on a string to defend them and not a few 1 on 1 isolation defenders stopping their best guys.

D-Leethal
06-05-2017, 06:00 PM
yep. As long as GS can run their little weave, motion offense 30 feet from the rim without being interrupted, they will shake free for easy shots. You can't give too much attention to any one man, since they have 3 of the greatest shooters (2 of the greatest I have seen) in the league. They are dangerous from 30 feet an in, and with multiple players that can shoot, create, and finish. Just devastating. The only team that could limit them would do it at the point of attack, and create such a physical, pain staking offensive set, that it might be able to limit them.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a team, under modern rules, that makes sense. It would have to be a team that can switch on picks without missing a beat, and rebound the basketball in space.

The later Bulls are probably the closest thing. The versatile defense Harper-MJ-Pippen-Rodman is probably the only unit I can think of that could potentially lock these guys down.

FlashBolt
06-05-2017, 06:05 PM
The later Bulls are probably the closest thing. The versatile defense Harper-MJ-Pippen-Rodman is probably the only unit I can think of that could potentially lock these guys down.

People overrate Pippen's and Jordan's defense and think it translates to this era but those guys never guarded the perimeter players that we're seeing today. They guarded Nique (who sucked in the playoffs), Drexler, and who else? I mean, it was just a few really good perimeter players. Like Reggie was just Klay with more athleticism and toughness but he was MJ's biggest rival for quite some years. How does Scottie's defense translate to Durant? I have little faith MJ can stop a guy like Curry from draining threes just from anywhere about the court. Perimeter defense is more important than rim protection these days because very few players actually toss it to the post. IMO, Kawhi is going to end up as the greatest perimeter defender. I think he's just as good as Pippen was and is doing it against solid high quality players. KD, LeBron, PG, Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Wade, Melo, Lillard, Kyrie, CP3. When did Pippen ever guard THAT?

kdspurman
06-05-2017, 06:48 PM
prolly in 5

I doubt that, but we'll have to see what goes down next year. Everything they did this season was geared towards GS with playing 2 bigs, and using someone like Simmons more, etc... All the experimenting was to prep for them. Part of why Pop was so pissed at losing Kawhi

Raps18-19 Champ
06-05-2017, 06:50 PM
No James became the dis advantage. Dallas had 1 top 5-10 player in the team that's it. Miami still had 2 top 10 players in Wade and Bosh. Wade was also a better player then Dirk and already defeated a younger Dirk by total domination. While Dirk choked many times more over the next couple of years.

James had to choke like no one ever with the way Wade and Bosh where playing. Yet James rose to the occasion and did just that. Wade out played Dirk(out scoring him on better efficiency) and Bosh was playing championship basketball. James 11 points in all 4th quarters heading into the elimination game is what cost Wade a ring. Wade greatness couldn't even carry this James against a lesser team. James was Dallas advantage over Miami.

That's what I just said. Lebron played bad and it was easy to overcome the talent differential.

That can't be said for these Warriors team.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-05-2017, 06:51 PM
You're crushing **** lately

I'm only pointing out the obvious.

Lebron needs to play a perfect game, other people have step up AND some of the GSW players have to play bad for the Cavs to be down by 3 last game.

FlashBolt
06-05-2017, 06:53 PM
I'm only pointing out the obvious.

Lebron needs to play a perfect game, other people have step up AND some of the GSW players have to play bad for the Cavs to be down by 3 last game.

Yup. Those saying KD is a better player, I like Rachel Nichol's explanation. One guy is cooking with cucumbers and squash's. The other guy has an entire collection of kitchen tools and ingredients. Yeah, KD is doing what he's supposed to but this is not an even responsibility load.

SfgiantsJD3
06-05-2017, 07:34 PM
Lets make some post finals assumptions
1) Regardless of how the Cav's finish they do something to matchup better with the Warriors, whatever that is, the playmaker / shooter LB wanted back in February or some other group of players and maybe make adjustments to how they play defense against transition teams, they need to do something that doesn't require LB to run 40 minutes a night.
2) San Antonio does something major to replace retiring / improve
3) Houston does something to improve
4) Boston Does something to improve.
5) Utah tries to keep existing core and improve
6) Clippers - are the X factor if CP3 and Blake leave 1 or two teams are getting better.
7) Toronto ?

All which makes the league more competitive and the Warriors "Dominance" is a dog fight like we saw for the first two quarters last night all they way through.

JordansBulls
06-05-2017, 08:40 PM
What other finals come to mind for you that were comparatively disproportionate in terms of talent?

2011 where Miami had much more talent.

WaDe03
06-05-2017, 08:55 PM
2011 where Miami had much more talent.

Depth matters and in the regard the Heat weren't close.

Chronz
06-05-2017, 09:47 PM
2011 where Miami had much more talent.

nah the mavs were the first team ever to take down an all nba player every series remember