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mrblisterdundee
05-26-2017, 11:21 AM
After getting destroyed by the Cavaliers, what do the Celtics do to contend?
Do they invest in Thomas and their current core. Do they try to sign Hayward or someone else, or trade for Butler or George? Do they let Thomas walk, make Fultz the lead guard and focus on developing the younger guys for when LeBron isn't as potent? Does Bradley remain with the Celtics, or is he the odd man out?

Vee-Rex
05-26-2017, 11:39 AM
https://goodmenproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/blow-it-up-by-Wikipedia.jpg

Vee-Rex
05-26-2017, 11:40 AM
Nah, j/k.

For now, keep the finger on the trade button in case a big opportunity presents itself. But draft Fultz and go for Hayward in free agency, and if you get Hayward then you can go for a big move.

Htownballa1622
05-26-2017, 11:57 AM
Trade I.T.

Draft Fultz. Swing for Hayward.

Continue to build.

Oakmont_4
05-26-2017, 11:59 AM
Fultz will be the pick.

The focus then goes to Heyward.

The subsequent moves depend on Heyward coming aboard or not.

IT, Smart, Bradley all hinge on Heyward. Have to move forward one step at a time.

LA4life24/8
05-26-2017, 12:14 PM
There's rumblings 76ers gonna trade up to #1 and take ball.. what yall make of that?

Oakmont_4
05-26-2017, 12:38 PM
There's rumblings 76ers gonna trade up to #1 and take ball.. what yall make of that?

Depends on what PHI gives up for the #1 pick. I'd want #3, Saric and Covington. If they offer that, done deal.

DamnGoat
05-26-2017, 12:41 PM
I think they should just stay patient. I don't see a realistic option out there that can trade for that puts them over the top in the East. Not as long as LeBron is still playing at this level.

They're in a great spot, but if I were a C's fan, I'd be upset if they traded that #1 pick, unless New Orleans is dumb enough to trade Davis. That's probably the one guy that'd change my line of thinking.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2017, 12:42 PM
Draft Fultz, sign Hayward, go after rebounding bigs to fill out the roster.

As long as LeBron is in his prime, won't matter much. But it sets them up nicely for a year or two from now to actually contend to be the team that probably loses to GS haha

TheDish87
05-26-2017, 12:56 PM
There's rumblings 76ers gonna trade up to #1 and take ball.. what yall make of that?

what rumblings? i highly doubt this.

TheDish87
05-26-2017, 12:56 PM
Depends on what PHI gives up for the #1 pick. I'd want #3, Saric and Covington. If they offer that, done deal.

yea.....no way. not even to take Fultz

tredigs
05-26-2017, 12:58 PM
I'd try to trade IT + Crowder + Brown for Jimmy Butler (still 3 years left on his deal at a very reasonable price), draft Fultz, and attempt to sign Hawyard.

PG: Fultz
SG: Jimmy Butler
SF: Gordon Hayward
PF: Amir Johnson (if re-signed for cheap, if not look to free agency for another big)
C: Horford

Still got Bradley who could now be a fantastic 6th man, Rozier and the Nets 1st round pick next season to look forward to. Pretty scary team if they could pull something along those lines off. I think bringing in two scorers to take the pressure off of Fultz (who will be good but no world changer in the early going) would obviously be huge for them. I think we saw the best from IT and you're just not going to win it all with him driving your offense. Best to thank him and cut bait now while he still has trade value.

Firefistus
05-26-2017, 12:59 PM
GS only has a few more years at best. In 2 years Thompson goes into Free agency and they won't be able to afford everyone. And with how Curry is regarding health I just don't see him staying healthy beyond 30 (which is next season).

LeBron is being considered one of the best because of his ability to play great for so long. I honestly think he's going to be up there in terms of longevity with Kareem, Malone, Russell and such. So if he gets 16-20 season than we still have another 6-10 years of Lebron.

That being said, I think the Celtics should take the best situation for them. IT is getting a little older, and Ainge has been known to trade awesome players at the end of their peaks for some good assets. If in fact they can grab Saric and Covington for the 1st pick I would do that in a heart-beat.

Since Hayward is staying in Utah and most definitely not moving to Boston.....ever.....(Jazz fan here) I think they should continue to build up some young talent through draft picks and use the rest of their cap for Millsap, and work on their depth big time. Pull in some minimum salary vets to fill out the bottom roster. I think that would make them pretty good.

Oakmont_4
05-26-2017, 01:28 PM
I'd try to trade IT + Crowder + Brown for Jimmy Butler (still 3 years left on his deal at a very reasonable price), draft Fultz, and attempt to sign Hawyard.

No way the C's make that trade. The 3rd year of Butlers deal is a player option which he will 100% opt out of, he'd be passing up millions of dollars if he didn't. If Smart was in place of Brown the C's might consider it.

Oakmont_4
05-26-2017, 01:29 PM
GS only has a few more years at best. In 2 years Thompson goes into Free agency and they won't be able to afford everyone. And with how Curry is regarding health I just don't see him staying healthy beyond 30 (which is next season).

LeBron is being considered one of the best because of his ability to play great for so long. I honestly think he's going to be up there in terms of longevity with Kareem, Malone, Russell and such. So if he gets 16-20 season than we still have another 6-10 years of Lebron.

That being said, I think the Celtics should take the best situation for them. IT is getting a little older, and Ainge has been known to trade awesome players at the end of their peaks for some good assets. If in fact they can grab Saric and Covington for the 1st pick I would do that in a heart-beat.

Since Hayward is staying in Utah and most definitely not moving to Boston.....ever.....(Jazz fan here) I think they should continue to build up some young talent through draft picks and use the rest of their cap for Millsap, and work on their depth big time. Pull in some minimum salary vets to fill out the bottom roster. I think that would make them pretty good.

He's going to at least entertain the idea of Boston. Not saying he's definitely leaving Utah, but I wouldn't say he's never leaving. BOS is just as good of a team as Utah (w/ Heyward). Take Heyward off Utah and add him to BOS plus Fultz...He'd instantly be on a better team...

mrblisterdundee
05-26-2017, 01:32 PM
LeBron is being considered one of the best because of his ability to play great for so long. I honestly think he's going to be up there in terms of longevity with Kareem, Malone, Russell and such. So if he gets 16-20 season than we still have another 6-10 years of Lebron.

He's already on season 14, so we'd have another four to six years of LeBron. In another six to 10 years, he'd be 38 to 42. I seriously doubt he's a dominant force by then.

tredigs
05-26-2017, 01:37 PM
No way the C's make that trade. The 3rd year of Butlers deal is a player option which he will 100% opt out of, he'd be passing up millions of dollars if he didn't. If Smart was in place of Brown the C's might consider it.

I'd do it in a heart-beat. Butler could opt-out and just re-sign (and after being there for 2 seasons, if they were contending, he very likely would). So you're turning down a top 10 level player for 1 year of IT, Brown and Crowder (who continually ceases to impress me). If you have the chance to get a premier talent while retaining your best assets (Fultz + next years Brooklyn pick) AND keeping a core that will contend in the East next season (specifically if they sign Hayward, which now seems reasonable after him missing all-nba) I would not think twice.

LA4life24/8
05-26-2017, 01:50 PM
what rumblings? i highly doubt this.
Thats what goin around the net since ball is prolly gonna workout for philly. Im skeptical for sure

But to workout for em means:

Lakers told em they arent as interested as they once were
Philly told em they wanna trade up to take him #1
This the Celtics way of tryna get the lakers to trade up for him at 1
1b lakers told em that and now hes just tryna protect his stock so if la dont take him he doesnt free fall past philly or phx to sactown at 5

Theres gonna be soo many rumors and chit over the next month, im ao ready for the draft to be here so we can get it done

C-ross12
05-26-2017, 01:51 PM
I'd look to trade IT. Draft Fultz, try for Heyward and keep building for a few years. Need to wait out the Warriors / Cavs.

mrblisterdundee
05-26-2017, 01:55 PM
The Celtics should focus on the next generation with Fultz, Brown and Smart. Thomas and Horford are going to decline faster than LeBron, and I don't think Hayward will move the needle enough against Cleveland and Golden State at the present.
I'd even be amenable to re-signing Bradley instead of Thomas. The Celtics would have a much bigger back court with equally good shooting ability and dramatically better defense by replacing Thomas with Fultz. Let someone else overpay an aging 5'9" guard who will always get murdered on defense.
Brown needs a bigger role, instead of being buried behind Crowder and potentially Hayward in the rotation. The guy's got serious promise.

C-ross12
05-26-2017, 02:08 PM
The Celtics should focus on the next generation with Fultz, Brown and Smart. Thomas and Horford are going to decline faster than LeBron, and I don't think Hayward will move the needle enough against Cleveland and Golden State at the present.
I'd even be amenable to re-signing Bradley instead of Thomas. The Celtics would have a much bigger back court with equally good shooting ability and dramatically better defense by replacing Thomas with Fultz. Let someone else overpay an aging 5'9" guard who will always get murdered on defense.
Brown needs a bigger role, instead of being buried behind Crowder and potentially Hayward in the rotation. The guy's got serious promise.

I agree with all of this. I think we should focus on Fultz, Brown, Smart, next years Nets pick +.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-26-2017, 02:28 PM
I'd do it in a heart-beat. Butler could opt-out and just re-sign (and after being there for 2 seasons, if they were contending, he very likely would). So you're turning down a top 10 level player for 1 year of IT, Brown and Crowder (who continually ceases to impress me). If you have the chance to get a premier talent while retaining your best assets (Fultz + next years Brooklyn pick) AND keeping a core that will contend in the East next season (specifically if they sign Hayward, which now seems reasonable after him missing all-nba) I would not think twice.

Bulls aren't doing any trade with he Celtics that doesn't include at minimum 1 of the BRK picks. That trade just sets them back even further with no real long term assets worth half of what Jimmy is worth.

Oakmont_4
05-26-2017, 02:35 PM
Bulls aren't doing any trade with he Celtics that doesn't include at minimum 1 of the BRK picks. That trade just sets them back even further with no real long term assets worth half of what Jimmy is worth.

Agreed and that's why the C's won't do it. They're not going to trade their future for 5 years of Butler. Just not going to happen. Butler doesn't get them past LBJ

Oakmont_4
05-26-2017, 02:36 PM
I'd do it in a heart-beat. Butler could opt-out and just re-sign (and after being there for 2 seasons, if they were contending, he very likely would). So you're turning down a top 10 level player for 1 year of IT, Brown and Crowder (who continually ceases to impress me). If you have the chance to get a premier talent while retaining your best assets (Fultz + next years Brooklyn pick) AND keeping a core that will contend in the East next season (specifically if they sign Hayward, which now seems reasonable after him missing all-nba) I would not think twice.

Butler doesn't get us passed LBJ so they're not going to give up Brown for him. They're going to eventually build around Brown-Fultz-18 BRK pick. They'll try to be competitive in the mean time (Heyward-Horford-IT) but the real goal is to center around the 3 top young talents so when LBJ dips off, they're in prime position to take over the East.

Oakmont_4
05-26-2017, 02:39 PM
The Celtics should focus on the next generation with Fultz, Brown and Smart. Thomas and Horford are going to decline faster than LeBron, and I don't think Hayward will move the needle enough against Cleveland and Golden State at the present.

Yup


I'd even be amenable to re-signing Bradley instead of Thomas. The Celtics would have a much bigger back court with equally good shooting ability and dramatically better defense by replacing Thomas with Fultz. Let someone else overpay an aging 5'9" guard who will always get murdered on defense.

Won't be equally good shooting to start. To expect Fultz to provide what IT does offensively right away is a poor bet. I think he can get there, but it's going to take time. Worst case you let IT play out his contract and then if Fultz shows the promise of being able to fill that void, you let IT walk.


Brown needs a bigger role, instead of being buried behind Crowder and potentially Hayward in the rotation. The guy's got serious promise.

I think he'll get a larger role even if Crowder and Heyward on the team. Stevens loves him some small ball and Crowder can play the 4 as can Brown. Brown can also play in a lineup of IT-Brown-Heyward-Crowder-Horford. So I agree Brown should get more minutes and he will. But I don't think the presence of Heyward or Crowder would deter that one bit.

Vee-Rex
05-26-2017, 02:50 PM
I'd do it in a heart-beat. Butler could opt-out and just re-sign (and after being there for 2 seasons, if they were contending, he very likely would). So you're turning down a top 10 level player for 1 year of IT, Brown and Crowder (who continually ceases to impress me). If you have the chance to get a premier talent while retaining your best assets (Fultz + next years Brooklyn pick) AND keeping a core that will contend in the East next season (specifically if they sign Hayward, which now seems reasonable after him missing all-nba) I would not think twice.

You'll soon find out why I have absolutely no sympathy for how weak the East is. Everyone (fans and teams alike) want to just wave the white flag until LeBron retires.

Alayla
05-26-2017, 02:57 PM
Depends on what PHI gives up for the #1 pick. I'd want #3, Saric and Covington. If they offer that, done deal.

Fultz would be worth it fk it.

IndyRealist
05-26-2017, 03:14 PM
They have no way to improve. I mean, they're way over the cap, no draft picks, locked into big, long term contracts, and have no youth to develop....

Wait, none of that is true.

da ThRONe
05-26-2017, 03:20 PM
Yeah it appears Boston bas two logical option. One trade in all the asset for 2 big time players and try for Hayward in an attempt to be contenders next year or sell on the older guys Thomas, Horford, Crowder, and/or Bradley and try to collect the cheap top end potential to go along with whomever they draft. I could make a strong case for both outcomes. What I think is the wrong idea is to try and do both even though Ainge has done an excellent job up until now.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-26-2017, 05:13 PM
A lot of moving parts and what IF's. If Celtics miss on Hayward. Then if Ainge doesn't want to part with Picks for Butler or PG13. Then id purge the roster now. Deal IT and Horford and Crowder, Smart, Bradley as quick as possible. Build around Fultz and Brown and picks or young pieces you get in return for the other guys the better.

Cause LeBron is ruling the east for another 2 years or so. Yeah Celtics are #2 seed. But they only go as far as IT takes them. Also IT be due for a crazy contract soon enough. Also Bradley and Crowder on bargain bin deals. They wont come cheap the next time around. Doubt Celtics can keep the core together in 3 years when LeBron starts to decline.

C-ross12
05-26-2017, 05:19 PM
A lot of moving parts and what IF's. If Celtics miss on Hayward. Then if Ainge doesn't want to part with Picks for Butler or PG13. Then id purge the roster now. Deal IT and Horford and Crowder, Smart, Bradley as quick as possible. Build around Fultz and Brown and picks or young pieces you get in return for the other guys the better.

Cause LeBron is ruling the east for another 2 years or so. Yeah Celtics are #2 seed. But they only go as far as IT takes them. Also IT be due for a crazy contract soon enough. Also Bradley and Crowder on bargain bin deals. They wont come cheap the next time around. Doubt Celtics can keep the core together in 3 years when LeBron starts to decline.

We could potentially have a really good team in 5 years with Fultz, Brown, Smart, Nets 18, and all the assets from various deals.

tredigs
05-26-2017, 05:22 PM
Bulls aren't doing any trade with he Celtics that doesn't include at minimum 1 of the BRK picks. That trade just sets them back even further with no real long term assets worth half of what Jimmy is worth.

If they kept Brown and went with IT + Brooklyn pick + Crowder, it's also worth it imo. They are the 2nd best team in the East, there is no reason to throw away that opportunity. Especially when it combines such young talent. And it gets the Bulls an extra top 1-5 pick + the entertainment of IT and Wade to not completely turn fans off for the current season.


We could potentially have a really good team in 5 years with Fultz, Brown, Smart, Nets 18, and all the assets from various deals.
While true, a very sad statement considering they could be better and sooner if they pull a trigger.

LOb0
05-26-2017, 05:23 PM
I'd let IT play out the year and worry about signing him or not. The rest is easy. Just play those young guys and stay competitive, unless a legitimate superstar trade is on the table or, till Bron gets older.

Celtics are fine either route they take.

C-ross12
05-26-2017, 05:30 PM
If they kept Brown and went with IT + Brooklyn pick + Crowder, it's also worth it imo. They are the 2nd best team in the East, there is no reason to throw away that opportunity. Especially when it combines such young talent. And it gets the Bulls an extra top 1-5 pick + the entertainment of IT and Wade to not completely turn fans off for the current season.


While true, a very sad statement considering they could be better and sooner if they pull a trigger.

Good enough to beat a team that just ran us out of the gym? Or the GSW?

hugepatsfan
05-26-2017, 05:37 PM
I feel like none of IT/Bradley/Smart have a ton of trade value if we do sell. Sure we could get something but I don't think you'd look back and ponder "what if" for 10 years if you ended up letting those guys walk for nothing based on the returns I think they'd get. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see strong markets for any of them.

tredigs
05-26-2017, 05:38 PM
Good enough to beat a team that just ran us out of the gym? Or the GSW?

Take the team that just played some decent ball against them in games 3 and 4, take off Crowder (is that a loss?), add Jimmy Butler and Gordon Hayward + the best young PG in the draft? Yeah, depending on circumstance (Kyrie or Love are hurt for example... no stretch there) that team could be East favorites as soon as next year, and almost certainly 2 years down the road.

hugepatsfan
05-26-2017, 05:54 PM
The Celtics can get max cap space by salary dumping Terry Rozier and leaving last year's 1st rounder PF Yabusele overseas one more year. They would still be able to bring over C Ante Zizic who I read is the #2 Eurpoean prospect according to some ranking (IDK which but to be that high on any list can't be bad lol).

If the Celtics use the cap space to sign Hayward like everyone expects them to try to they can pay PHX C Alex Len $10,294,176 in the S&T if they're sending Crowder out. Crowder has a pretty cheap 3 year deal and they need help on the wing.

Trade Bradley, Smart, 2018 BRK pick, 2019 MEM pick to CHI for Butler after that.

IT/Fultz
Butler
Hayward/Brown
Horford
Len/Zizic

Ideally you'd convince Hayward to take $686K less than the max in year 1 that way you don't have to salary dump Rozier because he'd be a nice guy to keep for the second unit. Fultz can play both guard spots and Hayward/Brown could both play anywhere from SG, SF or PF. So I think that come playoff time that's a fine 8 man rotation. I think they'd compete with CLE.

TheDish87
05-26-2017, 06:11 PM
Thats what goin around the net since ball is prolly gonna workout for philly. Im skeptical for sure

But to workout for em means:

Lakers told em they arent as interested as they once were
Philly told em they wanna trade up to take him #1
This the Celtics way of tryna get the lakers to trade up for him at 1
1b lakers told em that and now hes just tryna protect his stock so if la dont take him he doesnt free fall past philly or phx to sactown at 5

Theres gonna be soo many rumors and chit over the next month, im ao ready for the draft to be here so we can get it done

i have yet to see anyone report any of this. it would be all over. The only news has been Ball is considering working out here, which is smart in case LAL passes on him. We did not tell him we wanna trade up for him at 1 unless you a have legit link?

LOb0
05-26-2017, 06:19 PM
Take the team that just played some decent ball against them in games 3 and 4, take off Crowder (is that a loss?), add Jimmy Butler and Gordon Hayward + the best young PG in the draft? Yeah, depending on circumstance (Kyrie or Love are hurt for example... no stretch there) that team could be East favorites as soon as next year, and almost certainly 2 years down the road.

I'd rather be good for years down the road then get Jimmy Butler.

tredigs
05-26-2017, 06:30 PM
I'd rather be good for years down the road then get Jimmy Butler.

What you mean to say is that you would rather take a gamble on an unproven talent than 100% guaranteed to be better/contend now and still maintain an incredibly bright future. Your team was gifted ridiculous assets by Brooklyn, if I'm a fan it would be a damn shame to watch the team throw a real title opportunity down the drain under the guise of hope for the future. Because that's all a pick is. You would feel especially silly if the Nets manage to be only the 7th or 8th worst team in the league and/or don't luck out in the draft.

NYKnickFanatic
05-26-2017, 06:39 PM
Trade the #1 for Porzingis.

hugepatsfan
05-26-2017, 07:01 PM
What you mean to say is that you would rather take a gamble on an unproven talent than 100% guaranteed to be better/contend now and still maintain an incredibly bright future. Your team was gifted ridiculous assets by Brooklyn, if I'm a fan it would be a damn shame to watch the team throw a real title opportunity down the drain under the guise of hope for the future. Because that's all a pick is. You would feel especially silly if the Nets manage to be only the 7th or 8th worst team in the league and/or don't luck out in the draft.

It'd also be a damn shame to look back at how you went for it but never won **** and years down the road you say to yourself if you were more patient you'd be in better position to win now.

Before we talk trades with Boston gotta play out FA. If they go for it needs to be to really compete. For real, not just make it and have no shot to win. If they can land a Hayward or Blake type then now a trade might make sense.

hugepatsfan
05-26-2017, 07:04 PM
Trade the #1 for Porzingis.

I'd lean towards no because the reports on Fultz seem that he's higher regarded but obviously there's risk there to see if he translates to the NBA level. KP is already proven at a certain level though. It's tempting...

tredigs
05-26-2017, 07:06 PM
It'd also be a damn shame to look back at how you went for it but never won **** and years down the road you say to yourself if you were more patient you'd be in better position to win now.

Before we talk trades with Boston gotta play out FA. If they go for it needs to be to really compete. For real, not just make it and have no shot to win. If they can land a Hayward or Blake type then now a trade might make sense.

Certainly one way to look at it. Though having young talent/#1 picks with Hayward locked up and the potential of 2-7 years of Jimmy sounds better than pure hope to me.

LOb0
05-26-2017, 07:37 PM
What you mean to say is that you would rather take a gamble on an unproven talent than 100% guaranteed to be better/contend now and still maintain an incredibly bright future. Your team was gifted ridiculous assets by Brooklyn, if I'm a fan it would be a damn shame to watch the team throw a real title opportunity down the drain under the guise of hope for the future. Because that's all a pick is. You would feel especially silly if the Nets manage to be only the 7th or 8th worst team in the league and/or don't luck out in the draft.

Ill take that chance over paying Butler 20 million a year, losing a young talent just to lose to LeBron.

tredigs
05-26-2017, 07:54 PM
Ill take that chance over paying Butler 20 million a year, losing a young talent just to lose to LeBron.

Losers mentality if you ask me. I have no clue why you would mind paying Butler 20 mil a year either (a borderline top 10 player entering his peak). AKA the Chandler Parsons/Nic Batum/Harrison Barnes salary range.

LOb0
05-26-2017, 07:58 PM
Losers mentality if you ask me. I have no clue why you would mind paying Butler 20 mil a year either (a borderline top 10 player entering his peak). AKA the Chandler Parsons/Nic Batum/Harrison Barnes salary range.

Logical mentality. You have a draft pick that could be good for 12 years vs a guy that will be declining when LeBron is aging. Not to mention you're paying that draft pick 5 million dollars vs 20+ for Jimmy.

It's people like you that wanted the Celtics to trade for Butler this year, how would that have played out?

tredigs
05-26-2017, 08:03 PM
Logical mentality. You have a draft pick that could be good for 12 years vs a guy that will be declining when LeBron is aging. Not to mention you're paying that draft pick 5 million dollars vs 20+ for Jimmy.

It's people like you that wanted the Celtics to trade for Butler this year, how would that have played out?

Negative. The chance of next years draft pick becoming as good as Jimmy Butler is roughly 5% if it's outside the top 3. And far from a guarantee even if it is. I guess you're a gambling man. Finals windows don't come along very often. I'd shoot my shot, specifically as it still retains an incredibly bright future.

Jimmy Butler's are not available very often, that much is for sure.

LOb0
05-26-2017, 08:05 PM
Negative. The chance of next years draft pick becoming as good as Jimmy Butler is roughly 5% if it's outside the top 3. And far from a guarantee even if it is. I guess you're a gambling man. Finals windows don't come along very often. I'd shoot my shot, specifically as it still retains an incredibly bright future.

Jimmy Butler's are not available very often, that much is for sure.

You're talking about next years Brooklyn pick for Butler? Bulls aren't doing that.

Hell yeah I'd do that.

tredigs
05-26-2017, 08:13 PM
You're talking about next years Brooklyn pick for Butler? Bulls aren't doing that.

Hell yeah I'd do that.

Next years pick + Crowder + IT (who I would not want to pay next season with Fultz on the roster). Bear in mind I have not fleshed this out. But that is the type of package I would gladly ship that I think the Bulls would have to entertain.

LOb0
05-26-2017, 08:19 PM
Next years pick + Crowder + IT (who I would not want to pay next season with Fultz on the roster). Bear in mind I have not fleshed this out. But that is the type of package I would gladly ship that I think the Bulls would have to entertain.

With no IT it kinda kills the win now point of the trade. Also why would the Bulls want IT if they're rebuliding, they wouldn't want to give IT a max, thats for sure.

I'd say 2018 Nets pick, Crowder (Whom the bulls really like apparently) and some other role player. I wouldn't give up Jaylen Brown however.

JOSKOMANG4
05-26-2017, 10:36 PM
Revamp the roster:

1- trade PG I. Thomas to the magic for C N.Vucevic & 6th overall pick.

2- 1st overall pick: Fultz, PG Wash
6th overall pick: Markannen, F/C Zona

3- sign G/F G.Hayward to max deal

4- cut A.Johnson, T.Zeller, Jerebko.

L:

C: Vucevic/Olynyk
PF; Horford/Markannen/Mickey
SF: Crowder/Brown
SG: Hayward/Bradley/Jackson
PG: Fultz/Smart/Rozier

Firefistus
05-26-2017, 11:17 PM
With no IT it kinda kills the win now point of the trade. Also why would the Bulls want IT if they're rebuliding, they wouldn't want to give IT a max, thats for sure.

I'd say 2018 Nets pick, Crowder (Whom the bulls really like apparently) and some other role player. I wouldn't give up Jaylen Brown however.

I think you guys are over-valuing Crowder here. He's not necessarily a bad player, but he gets hurt every year and just isn't that efficient of a player. If the C's aren't willing to throw in Isiah Thomas (who everyone was willing to dump this year anyways) Than I wouldn't think the Bulls accept the deal, especially if the center piece is Crowder.

PurpleLynch
05-26-2017, 11:31 PM
Idk, but for sure they need a good defensive center: Horford imo should play as PF and he was average, if not bad sometimes with the d-rebounds.

hugepatsfan
05-27-2017, 07:58 AM
Idk, but for sure they need a good defensive center: Horford imo should play as PF and he was average, if not bad sometimes with the d-rebounds.

He's a terrible rebounder no denying that. They should be bring over Ante Zizic who was a 1st rounder last year and is the #2 prospect in Europe right now on one list. Hopefully he can give 15-20 minutes as a rookie. They need another guy who can give that as well. That way Horford is only playing C for 10-15 minutes himself. He's such an offensive threat there you don't want to completely rule him out there but you need to minimize it.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-27-2017, 08:39 AM
I'd let IT play out the year and worry about signing him or not. The rest is easy. Just play those young guys and stay competitive, unless a legitimate superstar trade is on the table or, till Bron gets older.

Celtics are fine either route they take.

Celtics better off to cash in on IT if he's not in the plans. Don't let a asset walk away for nothing.

da ThRONe
05-27-2017, 08:40 AM
Idk, but for sure they need a good defensive center: Horford imo should play as PF and he was average, if not bad sometimes with the d-rebounds.

Not sure how Pistons feel about Drummond moving forward but he may not be a terrible play for the C's.

hugepatsfan
05-27-2017, 08:58 AM
Celtics better off to cash in on IT if he's not in the plans. Don't let a asset walk away for nothing.

Not sure what he'd get in return though. Is it that much of a package? I don't feel confident one way or another yet - keeping him or letting him go - so another year to sort it out around the rest of the roster would be nice. The question is if the return he'd get is too great to wait

Oakmont_4
05-27-2017, 10:21 AM
Preliminary offseason moves

***We tell Amir Johnson, James Young, Gerald Green and Jonas Jerebko they will not be re-signed.

***Zeller and Mickeys non-guaranteed deals are declined

***C Ante Zizic is brought from overseas. Yabusele stays overseas for another year

***A Qualifying offer is extended to Olynyk

Draft night

***BOS trades #1 pick and Marcus Smart to PHI for #3, Saric and Covington

***BOS drafts SF Josh Jackson

Pre Free Agency Roster

Thomas/Rozier/Jackson
Bradley/Brown
Crowder/Jackson
Horford/Covington
Olynyk/Zizic

Cap Space $24.9M (based of $101M cap)

Free Agency Moratorium

Our first stop is Gordon Heyward. In order to create enough cap space to re-sign Heyward we need to make some moves, but it can be done pretty easily. This deal will be made during the moratorium, with the promise of adding another star. With the deal in place pending the acquisition of another star, Danny gets to work.

Danny Calls up Chicago and gets the deal done.

Trade
***BOS sends Crowder, Olynyk, 18 BRK pick, D. Jackson, LAC pick, MEM pick to CHI for Butler and a future 2nd rounder

In order to make this deal happen, we need to break the trade in 2 because Olynyk will need to be a S&T

Trade 1
CHI trades SG Jimmy Butler to BOS for SF Jae Crowder, 18 BRK pick, PG Demetrius Jackson and the MEM and LAC picks
Trade 2
BOS agrees to Sign and Trade Kelly Olynyk for a future second round pick

***Wade opts out of his contract so CHI is already a weaker team which helps them make the decision to start the rebuild. Now without Butler and Wade CHI has a legit shot at their own pick being top 5. The addition of the 18 BRK pick gives them 2 chances at a top 5 pick and a better chance at landing #1 overall. They also get the LAC and MEM picks which will help facilitate this rebuild***

With Butler in toe, Heyward reaffirms his intentions to sign with BOS. Danny now needs to clear some money from the books (approx. $6M). Here’s what the roster looks like at this point ($79M in salaries w/ cap holds, approx. $21M in cap space)

Post trade roster

Thomas/Rozier
Butler/Bradley
Brown/Jackson
Saric/Covington
Horford/Zizic

Free Agency

Utah has now come to terms with losing Heyward and Danny calls them up with a proposal so they don’t lose him for nothing. It’s a mutually beneficial deal because Danny needs to clear cap space anyways and Utah gets something out of the deal. Danny can easily salary dump Bradley to make the room, but Utah is better served to take Bradley back as a valuable player to a team that still has a solid roster they can build on.

***Utah signs and trades SF Gordon Heyward to BOS for SG Avery Bradley

***With Bradley’s outgoing salary and accounting for roster spot cap holds, the C’s have $30.5M in cap space at this point, which is just enough to fit Heyward on the books***

***On Utah’s end, the loss of Heyward hurts but the addition of Bradley mitigates the loss somewhat. They execute a similar S&T that they completed with BOS. UTA send Favors to ATL in a S&T for Millsap. They re-sign Hill with bird rights. They have a solid 4 guard trio of Hill-Exum-Bradley-Hood. Johnson can man the SF spot for now. With Gobert, Millsap and Diaw down low. In the end the lose Heyward and Favors but pick up Bradley and Millsap. It’s a small step down but they should be a solid playoff team still***

Post trade roster

PG Thomas/Rozier
SG Butler/Brown
SF Heyward/Jackson
PF Saric/Covington
C Horford/Zizic

Is it enough to compete with Cleveland? I think they could give them a run. This team has some serious offensive fire power. Still weak on the boards but hopefully Zizic can give a lift there. I love the athleticism and versatility of the second unit. If nothing else they should be very good defensively with some offensive potential.

Looking ahead we’re going to need to pay Covington, IT and Butler in the near future. Everyone else is under contract and controlled. Cov. should command about $15M. IT is worth about $15 but will command more and Butler is worthy of a MAX. Butler will be re-signed without issue, his MAX will results in a $15M spike in our cap. I would venture to guess we can pay 1 of IT or Covington going forward and we have a year to figure out who that might be.

celtNYpatsHeels
05-27-2017, 10:39 AM
If they want to compete right now then they need to trade for Paul George and sign Blake Griffin. They would have a core of Thomas Horford Griffin and George. Is that enough to overtake Cleveland/GS/SA? Who knows... but it seems like that is realistic based on reports of PG being available and Blake being a free agent

I think the smart play is to build around Jaylen Brown, Fultz Zizic and 2018 Brooklyn pick though. Even if it means taking a step back

GREATNESS ONE
05-27-2017, 11:34 AM
Draft Fultz.

Trade IT/Zeller for Cousins

Trade next year 2018 pick(s), Horford for Jimmy Butler & Rondo.

Outgoing- IT, Horford, Zeller and a handful of picks for incoming Cousins, Butler, Rondo and Fultz.

Tg11
05-27-2017, 12:13 PM
Draft Fultz

I would definitely keep him

But if we draft Lonzo Ball then I would trade Lonzo in a heartbeat to the Bulls for Jimmy Butler in a package along with our 2018 pick but in the package I would include Lonzo Ball, Crowder and Smart to get Jimmy Butler

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-27-2017, 02:40 PM
Not sure what he'd get in return though. Is it that much of a package? I don't feel confident one way or another yet - keeping him or letting him go - so another year to sort it out around the rest of the roster would be nice. The question is if the return he'd get is too great to wait

IT's value is probably peaking right now. Well before the hip injury. A new big contract then his stock would be low. I could see Mavs or Magic or Pistons interested. Maybe even the Knicks. What you get in return is another story.

eDush
05-27-2017, 02:52 PM
Draft Fultz

I would definitely keep him

But if we draft Lonzo Ball then I would trade Lonzo in a heartbeat to the Bulls for Jimmy Butler in a package along with our 2018 pick but in the package I would include Lonzo Ball, Crowder and Smart to get Jimmy ButlerDanny didn't want to include Crowder with a future 1st last offseason for Butler when that's what the Bulls ask. Butler didn't play as well against them in the playoffs and you think Danny will offer more now? I wouldn't based on that logic as I think they want to keep Smart and not sure why they want a Lonzo and the headache that will come with it. However, they might be willing to take Fultz straight up tho cause he will be very special imo but will Danny do it?
:shrug:

Federal Reserve
05-27-2017, 04:53 PM
The Celtics should have traded for Cousins and/or George (only if next year's pick wasn't being given up). This year's draft has some interesting pieces, but no clear star. Fultz is 6'4''. There are plenty of good, short players in the NBA, but his talents are redundant in the NBA. There are plenty of guys in the NBA who can do what he does. Fultz won't change anything about the Celtics. They have a bunch of above-average players, but no real stars. Their best bet, if they cannot sign any good free agents or make trades, is to try to trade their players for early picks in future drafts while continuing to build their young talent. While Lebron is in the league, the Celtics will continue to be the punching bag for the Cavs. And at the end of the day, a team that gets swept in the playoffs requires exponential improvement to get anywhere near the Cavs in terms of talent level.

kobe4thewinbang
05-28-2017, 02:00 AM
I think free agents may be intrigued by the Celtics now.

Obviously, if Gordon Hayward calls Brad Stevens and says "Let's reunite, Coach!" you go for it.

But if he stays with the Jazz--I remember being surprised by all the big names last time around standing pat (e.g. Whiteside, Conley, etc) then maybe you go for a Nikola Vucevic (Orlando Magic) or a Paul Millsap (Atlanta Hawks). Maybe a Sergei Ibaka (Toronto Raptors). I think they mostly need more reliable scoring. When they're scoring (as we saw from a great performance by Marcus Smart), their defense does the rest. So, I think a guy like Millsap would be nice. Free agency is probably the best route as I hope they don't trade a guy like Crowder or Bradley.

They should trade the pick, in my opinion...don't need any more young bloods and way to capitalize on the leverage and trade power again, Mr. Ainge.

Blake Griffin is another name out there, or maybe Aldridge from the Spurs?

A player looking for a fresh start...heck, maybe even Dwight. Move Horford to PF.

hugepatsfan
05-28-2017, 02:45 PM
IT's value is probably peaking right now. Well before the hip injury. A new big contract then his stock would be low. I could see Mavs or Magic or Pistons interested. Maybe even the Knicks. What you get in return is another story.

I'm sure people will be interested but I don't think you get any great offers for him TBH. It's possible for us to keep him and pursue a max next year (because we have his bird rights). If DAL came in and said they'd give #9 for him that's the type of offer where you absolutely need to decide then and there because you don't want to end up letting him go and get nothing for him. But if it's some lottery protected 2018 pick then now you can live with losing him for nothing to buy that extra year of time to sort things out on the roster.

eDush
05-28-2017, 03:00 PM
IT's value is probably peaking right now. Well before the hip injury. A new big contract then his stock would be low. I could see Mavs or Magic or Pistons interested. Maybe even the Knicks. What you get in return is another story.

I'm sure people will be interested but I don't think you get any great offers for him TBH. It's possible for us to keep him and pursue a max next year (because we have his bird rights). If DAL came in and said they'd give #9 for him that's the type of offer where you absolutely need to decide then and there because you don't want to end up letting him go and get nothing for him. But if it's some lottery protected 2018 pick then now you can live with losing him for nothing to buy that extra year of time to sort things out on the roster.Not keeping your only playmaker and a respected vocal leader when he bleeds Celtics Green says a lot about how cheap management might be if they are willing to trade a top 10 pick for him. It's no different than the Warriors trading Steph for a pick which we will NEVER do!
:no:

hugepatsfan
05-28-2017, 04:35 PM
Article on Ainge's plans.

http://nesn.com/2017/05/danny-ainge-celtics-need-great-players-could-undergo-some-significant-change/


“Just because you’re one piece away doesn’t mean you can get it,” Ainge told the Boston Herald’s Steve Bulpett. “And if you force yourself to get it, and if you force a deal or force yourself to get the second best available or the third or fourth best available player at that position that you need, then it might not make you that much better or make you still not good enough, and you’re stuck. So, yeah, we’re not that far away, but we’re still a ways away. We still know we need to get better. Everybody in our organization knows we need to get better. We need to add.”

Ainge acknowledged “that next step is by far the hardest,” and that he knows the team is good but not great.

“We have a lot of good players,” he added, “but we need some great ones.”

More-Than-Most
05-28-2017, 05:59 PM
The thing with trading IT... Fans as a whole are moronic... while individual fans are smart... they would get destroyed if they trade IT because of the fans and ainge seems really worried about pulling any trade triggers in fear of mistakes as is... If they trade IT it wont be for a pick but a package of a great player in my opinion... That is the only way Ainge takes the risk... Something like IT plus next years pick plus crowder for Butler.

Celtics draft fultz
Sign Hayward
Add butler


Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan thats sick

hugepatsfan
05-28-2017, 06:35 PM
I want to draft and keep Fultz. But after that, if I'm Danny Ainge I try to make another trade that could turn out like BRK. The Clippers in a desperate attempt to capitalize on CP3 could be the victim.

LAC gives: G Austin Rivers, G Jamal Crawford, F Paul Pierce
LAC gets: G Avery Bradley, F Carmelo Anthony, future 1st round picks

NYK gives: F Carmelo Anthony, C Kyle O'Quinn
NYK gets: F Jae Crowder, Jamal Crawford

BOS gives: G Avery Bradley, F Jae Crowder
BOS gets: G Austin Rivers, C Kyle O'Quinn, future 1st round picks from LAC, F Paul Pierce (who retires)

We all know Doc only likes his former players and he always liked Bradley. Knicks love Crowder and would like to get something for Melo. (Crawford is an expiring deal with just a partial guarantee next year.) BOS gets a few 1st round picks that down the road could be something when LAC gets older and declines. In the meantime though, they add the pieces they need around their big 3. Rivers has made himself a solid 3 point shooter and good defender. O'Quinn adds rim protection and rebounding to the rotation. Bradley/Crowder are obviously better players but these guys fit in the rotation and give Ainge the chance to down the road have turned two role players into some high picks.

I'm not sure what the LAC pick situation is but a trade like this can probably be the difference between keeping CP3 and Blake or having to start all over right now so I bet Doc would be willing to do something stupid like giving up pick swaps for and outright picks for a 5 year stretch the way BRK did.

JordansBulls
05-29-2017, 12:50 AM
Trade the #1 pick for Jimmy Butler as Jimmy locks up Lebron.

GiantsSwaGG
06-15-2017, 03:38 PM
Would you trade the 1st overall pick for Klay Thompson

Or

Keep the pick, draft Fultz and max Hayward?

hugepatsfan
06-15-2017, 03:57 PM
Well they should try to sign Hayward either way if he's willing to come. If they want to trade #1, do what the Cavs did a few years back when they signed the #1 pick then traded it to count it as outgoing salary.

Personally, I don't think they're very close to CLE/GS. Even if they signed Hayward then traded #1/Crowder for Klay (assuming GS is even willing to move him) I would still not pick them vs. CLE/GS. Those teams have generational talents and that's what wins.

IT, Hayward, Horford, Klay, Butler, PG, Blake... go down the list of anyone Boston has a realistic or even semi-realistic shot to acquire. Any single one of those guys would be one of the WORST #1 players on a title winning team. 03-04 Pistons won without a star. Some people rank original IT from the Pistons lower, but every other team from the 80s on to win had a top 20 all time player on their team. Do any of those guys sound like top 20 all-time players? Not even close. BOS ain't going to win in this stretch. Their play is for the future with those BRK picks and any FAs they can add. The next 3 years are just a bridge period. No trades, just spend FA money.

celticsman2009
06-15-2017, 04:08 PM
I love Klay, but I don't see the point because this current Celtics team is a holdover for 2022 when Brown, Fultz and 2018 Brooklyn pick are coming into their primes.

Greet
06-15-2017, 04:13 PM
Not for Klay. But for PG or Butler? That would be an interesting offer

ewing
06-15-2017, 04:22 PM
Would you trade the 1st overall pick for Klay Thompson

Or

Keep the pick, draft Fultz and max Hayward?

Make the trade.

Hawkeye15
06-15-2017, 04:24 PM
maybe get someone over 6'10" that can rebound?

hugepatsfan
06-15-2017, 04:30 PM
People want BOS to be the sacrificial lamb. The playoff series all suck so they want BOS to push all their chips in for a team that will never win but can maybe push CLE to 6 or 7 games a few years, maybe get lucky and win one only to be swept by GS.

BOS should look out for their best interests. If you have a chance for a title winning team push your chips in. Unfortunately, none of the available players accomplish that. No sense in trading. Free agency on the other hand? Sure. Sign the best you can. It's only money. But no sense in trading assets like a #1 pick for players that aren't going to elevate you to a title contenders.

ewing
06-15-2017, 04:37 PM
People want BOS to be the sacrificial lamb. The playoff series all suck so they want BOS to push all their chips in for a team that will never win but can maybe push CLE to 6 or 7 games a few years, maybe get lucky and win one only to be swept by GS.

BOS should look out for their best interests. If you have a chance for a title winning team push your chips in. Unfortunately, none of the available players accomplish that. No sense in trading. Free agency on the other hand? Sure. Sign the best you can. It's only money. But no sense in trading assets like a #1 pick for players that aren't going to elevate you to a title contenders.

Klay is a great player. Do you think it is a given that player you take will be better then Klay. Maybe he is, likely he is not. Chances are you get better now and better in the future with this deal

ewing
06-15-2017, 04:38 PM
maybe get someone over 6'10" that can rebound?

I need a rim protector. Hartford was a big mistake imo. Noel seems like the prefect fit to me

bucketss
06-15-2017, 04:42 PM
I love Klay, but I don't see the point because this current Celtics team is a holdover for 2022 when Brown, Fultz and 2018 Brooklyn pick are coming into their primes.

you have their 2018 pick to? please tell me this one is atleast protected.

Forever35
06-15-2017, 04:43 PM
Klay ain't worth any #1 pick... He's awesome, but not that awesome...

#1 pick trade = at least 6'10", under 24 and a stud...

PG or Butler ain't worth the #1 pick...

Forever35
06-15-2017, 04:44 PM
you have their 2018 pick to? please tell me this one is atleast protected.

It's protected from 0 to 0... :D

hugepatsfan
06-15-2017, 04:48 PM
Klay is a great player. Do you think it is a given that player you take will be better then Klay. Maybe he is, likely he is not. Chances are you get better now and better in the future with this deal

It's extremely possible - even likely - that Fultz is never as good as Klay. But that's not the point. You have to look at it in the context of how you get to be a real title contender. If you want to win a title you need to get up to the talent level of the top teams. For BOS, that's not going to take one or two moves. Looking at the landscape of the NBA they're 3 or 4 all stars away from being on the level of Lebron's Cavs or a Durant/Curry/Green Warriors team. So every move you consider you need to look at the what shape it leaves you in to make the next one. Trade #1 pick and financial flexibility for a player even as good as Klay just doesn't leave you in good enough shape to make those next few moves.

ewing
06-15-2017, 04:54 PM
Klay ain't worth any #1 pick... He's awesome, but not that awesome...

#1 pick trade = at least 6'10", under 24 and a stud...

PG or Butler ain't worth the #1 pick...

here are the guys taken 1 since 2007

Oden
Rose
Blake
Wall
Kyrie
Bennet
Wiggens
Towns
Simmons

So why is Klay not worth the #1? He is probably better then what you will get. You don't have to wait years for him to make an impact, you have more top picks coming, and you still have money to spend.

Midnightbottle
06-15-2017, 04:54 PM
Not for Klay. But for PG or Butler? That would be an interesting offer
Neither is gonna happen

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Hawkeye15
06-15-2017, 04:58 PM
here are the guys taken 1 since 2007

Oden
Rose
Blake
Wall
Kyrie
Bennet
Wiggens
Towns
Simmons

So why is Klay not worth the #1? He is probably better then what you will get. You don't have to wait years for him to make an impact, you have more top picks coming, and you still have money to spend.

there are 2 players that I would take without a doubt over Klay on that entire list. So yeah, I agree with your premise here for sure. The biggest difference is #1 money keeps you financially more flexible for 4 years I guess.

hugepatsfan
06-15-2017, 05:08 PM
Ok fine, they trade the #1 for Klay... What's the path for moves after that? What's next?

Hawkeye15
06-15-2017, 05:14 PM
Ok fine, they trade the #1 for Klay... What's the path for moves after that? What's next?

I didn't say that necessarily. If the Celtics want to keep optimal flexibility, the don't trade for Klay.

They need to parlay their assets into 2 all star players, for sure. Getting Klay gives them 1. But then they would need to find another all NBA type to put with Klay, Horford, and IT.

ewing
06-15-2017, 05:25 PM
It's extremely possible - even likely - that Fultz is never as good as Klay. But that's not the point. You have to look at it in the context of how you get to be a real title contender. If you want to win a title you need to get up to the talent level of the top teams. For BOS, that's not going to take one or two moves. Looking at the landscape of the NBA they're 3 or 4 all stars away from being on the level of Lebron's Cavs or a Durant/Curry/Green Warriors team. So every move you consider you need to look at the what shape it leaves you in to make the next one. Trade #1 pick and financial flexibility for a player even as good as Klay just doesn't leave you in good enough shape to make those next few moves.

OK draft and hope for 2022.

Vee-Rex
06-15-2017, 05:28 PM
It's extremely possible - even likely - that Fultz is never as good as Klay. But that's not the point. You have to look at it in the context of how you get to be a real title contender. If you want to win a title you need to get up to the talent level of the top teams. For BOS, that's not going to take one or two moves. Looking at the landscape of the NBA they're 3 or 4 all stars away from being on the level of Lebron's Cavs or a Durant/Curry/Green Warriors team. So every move you consider you need to look at the what shape it leaves you in to make the next one. Trade #1 pick and financial flexibility for a player even as good as Klay just doesn't leave you in good enough shape to make those next few moves.

TBH, I think the era of super teams is still trending. Durant's lame decision to join GS isn't gonna do anything but get more super teams rolling, IMO. If you sit back and wait 4 years for LeBron to retire I'd be willing to bet there would be another super team on the rise or in the making, and you'll have exhausted the 2 billion draft picks you have in the next 4 years on guys that would never put Boston near the top.

I swing for Klay if that's ever an opportunity and look to build from there. Otherwise, going for Fultz is a good idea. But at some point those assets need to be cashed in for a trade.

hugepatsfan
06-15-2017, 05:40 PM
TBH, I think the era of super teams is still trending. Durant's lame decision to join GS isn't gonna do anything but get more super teams rolling, IMO. If you sit back and wait 4 years for LeBron to retire I'd be willing to bet there would be another super team on the rise or in the making, and you'll have exhausted the 2 billion draft picks you have in the next 4 years on guys that would never put Boston near the top.

I swing for Klay if that's ever an opportunity and look to build from there. Otherwise, going for Fultz is a good idea. But at some point those assets need to be cashed in for a trade.

But the point is those draft picks don't have to put BOS over the top. You get a bunch of cheap high end talent and then have FA. If you got 4-5 good players all on rookie deals then you are the team that can become a super team because you have the financial flexibility to accommodate multiple max deals and take on extra salaries in trades.

JOSKOMANG4
06-15-2017, 05:45 PM
Turn of Events..

- Kings acquire 25th overall & F A.Gordon from Magic for 10th overall pick.

- Magic trade 6th & 10th overall pick, & C. N.Vuvevic to Celtics for 1st overall pick
- Celtics also trade PG T.Rozier, SG A.Bradley, SF J.Brown, 2018 Nets unprotected 1st & 2019 Grizzles top-5 protected 1st to Bulls for G/F J.Butler.

Celtics 2017-2018 Roster:

C: Vuvevic/Olynyk/Zeller
PF: Horford/J.Collins(10th overall pick)
SF: Crowder/Green
SG: J.Butler/Smart/Young
PG: I.Thomas/D.Smith(6th overall pick)/D.Jackson.

This team, IMO, defeats the Cavaliers in the ECF

AntiG
06-15-2017, 05:54 PM
trade one first for Anthony Davis, and next years for LeBron James so he can finally feel like he's on a Super Team.

GiantsSwaGG
06-15-2017, 05:58 PM
Ok fine, they trade the #1 for Klay... What's the path for moves after that? What's next?

PG - IT
SG - Bradley
SF - Thompson
PF - Crowded
C - Horford

That's a pretty damn good line up

FOXHOUND
06-15-2017, 06:05 PM
here are the guys taken 1 since 2007

Oden
Rose
Blake
Wall
Kyrie
Bennet
Wiggens
Towns
Simmons

So why is Klay not worth the #1? He is probably better then what you will get. You don't have to wait years for him to make an impact, you have more top picks coming, and you still have money to spend.

The only one on that list who is clearly worse than Klay is Anthony Bennett. Oden and Rose were clearly far superior, before injuries did them in. Blake, Wall and Kyrie are all clearly superior. Wiggins is not there yet but he is 22-years old and far better than Klay Thompson at that age. Towns is also clearly superior, never mind at age 21. Simmons is a TBD.

If they were a Klay Thompson away from a title, that would be one thing. You're also giving the Warriors the #1 pick in a draft being called one of the strongest of the past 20 years. Seems counterproductive.

hugepatsfan
06-15-2017, 06:24 PM
Regardless no trade gets done until FA. It'd make no sense. You might agree to something on draft night but you don't announce it until after you play out FA. Don't cut into that max cap space. BOS just needs to dump Rozier and stash #16 pick from last year (Yabusele) one more year for max cap space. They CAN bring over Zizic who was the #23 pick last year. People say that if he was coming off the year he had in Europe he'd be a late lottery pick. He should help at C for the rotation. Blake/Hayward are the rumored targets with that max slot. Let's say you land one:

IT/Fultz
Bradley/Smart
Hayward/Brown
Crowder
Horford/Zizic

or

IT/Fultz
Bradley/Smart
Crowder/Brown
Blake
Horford/Zizic

Now you can go over the cap for a trade.

I also think #1 is more than they need to swing a deal for Butler or PG (GS isn't moving Klay right now). If you do want to trade the pick for a star I think you first move down from #1 to #3 with PHI. I think you could get Saric or next year's LAL pick for the move down. Then you trade #3 and Crowder or Bradley (salary match) for Butler or PG which I think is enough still (maybe a future pick needed).

The problem is I still don't think you can beat GS with these moves. Their roster is that loaded. Not to mention that BOS would be facing the same luxury tax situation that will break up GS in these scenarios.

ewing
06-16-2017, 08:28 AM
The only one on that list who is clearly worse than Klay is Anthony Bennett. Oden and Rose were clearly far superior, before injuries did them in. Blake, Wall and Kyrie are all clearly superior. Wiggins is not there yet but he is 22-years old and far better than Klay Thompson at that age. Towns is also clearly superior, never mind at age 21. Simmons is a TBD.

If they were a Klay Thompson away from a title, that would be one thing. You're also giving the Warriors the #1 pick in a draft being called one of the strongest of the past 20 years. Seems counterproductive.

You don't like Klay


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DanG
06-16-2017, 08:58 AM
If you want to win now you have to go all in meaning you have to trade both 17' and 18' pick.

Crowder + Bradley + Zeller for Kevin Love
#1 for Jimmy Butler

IT
Smart
Butler
Love
Horford

ECF loss, cool.

2018 another top 3 pick. Trade that + Horford for Hassan Whiteside

IT (30)
Smart (25)
Butler (29)
Love (30)
Whiteside (29)

elite rim protector, 2 elite perimeter defenders, stretch 4, great coach.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
06-16-2017, 09:12 AM
One goof up is Celtics signed Al Horford to that horrible contract. He's a name but for $27,734,405 $28,928,710 $30,123,015 for next 3 season looks putrid and will start to regress as a player. Yeah Ainge needed to land a free agent. But man Horford was a bad idea. Cause once IT gets paid and if they keep Bradley and whatever he gets. Celtics are strapped. Besides if they reel in Hayward. Then that Horford contract will be hard to move unless you take junk back. Horford's contract makes Moose look like a bargain for darn near $10M less per.

hugepatsfan
06-16-2017, 09:42 AM
Horford is better than IT or Bradley. Well, I'd say IT is a better individual player but Horford's role and playing style is more easily assimilated into a winning team. Poor rebounder but good to great in every other facet of the game. If Horford's contract makes it difficult to pay IT or Bradley then that's not really an issue. You keep Horford over either. Very simple.

hugepatsfan
06-16-2017, 09:55 AM
The harsh reality for the Celtics and everyone else is that there are only 4 guys in the NBA right now good enough to be #1 on a title team: Lebron, Durant, Curry, Leonard.

Look at the list since the 80s of each team who won. The 76ers won with Moses/Dr. J as their best players. The Celtics won with Bird then a pre-knee injury KG. The Lakers won with Magic/Kareem and then Shaq/Kobe (then just Kobe). The Bulls had Jordan/Pippen. The Rockets had Hakeem. The Spurs have had Duncan. The Heat had Lebron for their latest and a prime Wade for the other. The Mavs had Dirk. CLE had Lebron. Curry/Durant/Leonard are those type of players just without longevity yet.

The Bad Boy Pistons had original IT who is definitely a top 50 player but I've seen him ranked relatively lower. The o3-04 Pistons were the one true exception without an all time player.

The reality is that if you don't have a top 20ish player all time you flat out aren't winning. It's pretty much that simple. IT ain't that guy. Horford isn't. Hayward isn't. Blake isn't. Butler isn't. George isn't. Cousins isn't. Klay isn't.

If BOS ever wants to have a real shot at contending they need to get that type of player and the guys in the league who fit that description just aren't available to them. None of the guys they have a shot at fit the description. Who knows, maybe the BRK picks can produce that guy. Overwhelmingly likely it won't but there's a reason so few teams have won - it's very hard to find that caliber of player. To move the 0.01% shot you have at finding that guy for pieces that you 100% know are not that guy doesn't make sense IMO. I'm not resting my franchise's future on the hope I can be the one exception in almost 40 years to win without a true all-time great player.

FOXHOUND
06-16-2017, 10:15 AM
You don't like Klay


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lol I like Klay a lot, actually. Or Nesquik, as I like to call him. I think he fits GS and what they need from him better than anyone on that list but I don't think that makes him a better player. Take away this years Finals, if you think Durant shrunk his role or whatever. Did anyone think that Kyrie and Klay were on the same level in last years Finals? This year it was the same.

If you're looking for a franchise player or someone to build around, I don't see how you take Klay over anyone on that list except for Bennett and Simmons, just because he hasn't played a game yet. I don't know if Wiggins will be as good, but really all he has to do is wake up on D. His lack of ability as a rebounder or passer means nothing since Klay isn't strong there either. Wiggins scored 23.6 PPG this year and he started it at age 21. Klay's season that he started at 21 was his rookie year and he was scoring 12.5 PPG lol. By the time Wiggins is 27 like Klay is he might be scoring 30 PPG.

WestCoastSportz
06-16-2017, 12:40 PM
Klay is a great streak shooter and an above average defender but he is not worth a #1 overall pick. He's in a situation now where he doesn't haven't create his shots, which is his biggest weakness. A lot of his success on offense is because of Curry and the system Kerr has the offense running. Klay gets alot of wide open shots. He scored 60 points in 3 quarters while dribbling the ball 12 times. Klay is also not a good ball handler for a guard. You add in the fact that he's not incredibly quick and that he's a below average athlete, and you'll see why he has trouble creating his own shots. He's also not a good passer. How many times do we see him drive in and tried to pass it and turns it over? More times than he actually completes a pass. If you put Klay on a team like the Hornets, he wouldn't be their best player. He would probably still be 3rd behind Walker and Batum. Thompson doesn't really make sense for the Celtics nor is he worth the #1 overall pick. They took Jaylen Brown just last year with the 3rd overall pick.

aman_13
06-16-2017, 05:32 PM
The Lakers worked out Fultz and are considering moving up to number 1 to get him and apparently the Sixers are in serious discussions with Celtics for the pick.

Report: Lakers 'in love' with Fultz, may try trade up for No. 1
https://www.thescore.com/news/1319851
(via http://thesco.re/theScore_app )

Report: Sixers, Celtics in serious discussions for No. 1 pick
https://www.thescore.com/news/1319842
(via http://thesco.re/theScore_app )

hugepatsfan
06-23-2017, 02:11 PM
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

Spotrac page is up to date for the Celtics. The number at the bottom of the page for max cap holds if they renounce all exceptions and cap holds is $27,059,942. However, that's very incomplete.

First, it includes Zeller's $8M non-guaranteed deal. That's definitely being declined. Mickey's deal is non-guaranteed to so that will be off the books. So add $9,471,382 to the cap space.

On the other side, renouncing the cap holds means Tatum, Yabusele, Zizic are released and no way are they doing that. Adding those 3 cap holds takes away $9,538,080.

So just netting those moves out, the Celtics are down to $26,993,244 of cap space. Of all the players on the list that's including 11 players/cap holds:

Horford
Bradley
Crowder
Thomas
Brown
Smart
Rozier
Jackson
Tatum
Yabusele
Zizic

The FA signing would be their 12th which gets up to the minimum roster spots. So no cap holds to factor in. However, for a 30% max we need $29.7M. We're short of that number by $2,706,756.

Remember though, any player we dump creates a new roster space cap hold. So the savings have to be reduced by $815,615.

Easiest way to make room is to stash Yabusele for one more year. His cap hold removed, net of the roster space hold, saves $1,431,865. We still need to open up $1,274,891.

I didn't include Jackson's non-guaranteed deal above because there is a $650K guarantee. So cutting him actually costs cap room because the roster cap hold plus $650K dead money is more than his salary. But if they salary dump him (I think they could do so easily), then they free up $569,135. Still not enough for a max. They would need $705,756 more cleared.

They could stash Zizic same as Yabusele. His net savings would be $829,585. Boom, there they are. Max cap space.

HOWEVER, I do not think they would want to stash Zizic. As a big center inside he fits a need and he's NBA ready. War suggested that if they don't formally announce his intentions to come over until September 1st, they can remove the cap hold and then go over the cap to sign him at a later date. If that is truly the rule, then they would do that. I think Yabu is staying over one more year regardless.

If that is NOT the rule though, then Rozier needs to go. His net savings are $1,172,905. He would be very easy to dump.

So BOS has very easy manueverability to create max cap space. Worst case scenario is they stash Yabu and dump Rozier/Jackson. Best case is they only stash Yabu and dump Jackson while keeping Rozier.

I really hope that rule is such that they can bring Zizic over later so they don't have to count the cap hold now. That would be ideal to have both him and Rozier while signing a max. But even if it's just one (likely Zizic for need) then that's fine.

So then after BOS signs their max player, hopefully Hayward. They can go voer the cap in trades.

Bradley + Crowder going out allows them to take back over $20M in a trade. That works for Paul George. So BOS can trade them along with some combination of the following:

2018 LAL pick (or 2019 SAC pick)
2018 BOS pick
2019 MEM pick
2019 LAC pick
2019 BOS pick

I think you can land him for that. You put together a starting lineup of:

IT/Smart
Brown/Rozier (if he doesn't have to be dumped)
Hayward/Tatum
PG/(room exception signing)
Horford/Zizic

If Rozier is here great, if not you just let work the rotation with a vet min guy in his place. I know PG doesn't like PF, even though it's a great fit for him in today's NBA. So maybe you re-configure and get a center with the room exception signing:

IT/Smart
Hayward/Brown
PG/Tatum
Horford/(vet min)
(room exception)/Zizic

Or maybe Zizic is ready to start. Or you could play Tatum as a small ball 4. IDK but they can find some combination that works.

That team would be my pick to get to the Finals unless CLE does something because the ball movement would be outstanding. Maybe PG is enticed to stay. If not, I don't think BOS will hurt for giving up those picks. Risk worth taking IMO.

BKLYNpigeon
06-23-2017, 02:20 PM
Celtics are going to trade for PG.

they're just waiting for Free Agency to start so they can start dumping contracts etc.

mightybosstone
06-23-2017, 02:52 PM
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

Spotrac page is up to date for the Celtics. The number at the bottom of the page for max cap holds if they renounce all exceptions and cap holds is $27,059,942. However, that's very incomplete.

First, it includes Zeller's $8M non-guaranteed deal. That's definitely being declined. Mickey's deal is non-guaranteed to so that will be off the books. So add $9,471,382 to the cap space.

On the other side, renouncing the cap holds means Tatum, Yabusele, Zizic are released and no way are they doing that. Adding those 3 cap holds takes away $9,538,080.

So just netting those moves out, the Celtics are down to $26,993,244 of cap space. Of all the players on the list that's including 11 players/cap holds:

Horford
Bradley
Crowder
Thomas
Brown
Smart
Rozier
Jackson
Tatum
Yabusele
Zizic

The FA signing would be their 12th which gets up to the minimum roster spots. So no cap holds to factor in. However, for a 30% max we need $29.7M. We're short of that number by $2,706,756.

Remember though, any player we dump creates a new roster space cap hold. So the savings have to be reduced by $815,615.

Easiest way to make room is to stash Yabusele for one more year. His cap hold removed, net of the roster space hold, saves $1,431,865. We still need to open up $1,274,891.

I didn't include Jackson's non-guaranteed deal above because there is a $650K guarantee. So cutting him actually costs cap room because the roster cap hold plus $650K dead money is more than his salary. But if they salary dump him (I think they could do so easily), then they free up $569,135. Still not enough for a max. They would need $705,756 more cleared.

They could stash Zizic same as Yabusele. His net savings would be $829,585. Boom, there they are. Max cap space.

HOWEVER, I do not think they would want to stash Zizic. As a big center inside he fits a need and he's NBA ready. War suggested that if they don't formally announce his intentions to come over until September 1st, they can remove the cap hold and then go over the cap to sign him at a later date. If that is truly the rule, then they would do that. I think Yabu is staying over one more year regardless.

If that is NOT the rule though, then Rozier needs to go. His net savings are $1,172,905. He would be very easy to dump.

So BOS has very easy manueverability to create max cap space. Worst case scenario is they stash Yabu and dump Rozier/Jackson. Best case is they only stash Yabu and dump Jackson while keeping Rozier.

I really hope that rule is such that they can bring Zizic over later so they don't have to count the cap hold now. That would be ideal to have both him and Rozier while signing a max. But even if it's just one (likely Zizic for need) then that's fine.

So then after BOS signs their max player, hopefully Hayward. They can go voer the cap in trades.

Bradley + Crowder going out allows them to take back over $20M in a trade. That works for Paul George. So BOS can trade them along with some combination of the following:

2018 LAL pick (or 2019 SAC pick)
2018 BOS pick
2019 MEM pick
2019 LAC pick
2019 BOS pick

I think you can land him for that. You put together a starting lineup of:

IT/Smart
Brown/Rozier (if he doesn't have to be dumped)
Hayward/Tatum
PG/(room exception signing)
Horford/Zizic

If Rozier is here great, if not you just let work the rotation with a vet min guy in his place. I know PG doesn't like PF, even though it's a great fit for him in today's NBA. So maybe you re-configure and get a center with the room exception signing:

IT/Smart
Hayward/Brown
PG/Tatum
Horford/(vet min)
(room exception)/Zizic

Or maybe Zizic is ready to start. Or you could play Tatum as a small ball 4. IDK but they can find some combination that works.

That team would be my pick to get to the Finals unless CLE does something because the ball movement would be outstanding. Maybe PG is enticed to stay. If not, I don't think BOS will hurt for giving up those picks. Risk worth taking IMO.

Yeah, I think it's kind of funny how much flack I've seen some fans and analysts give Boston after last night. They're still sitting extremely pretty right now. They could add Hayward or Griffin, then turn around and still trade for George right afterward. Or they could add one free agent outright and then acquire a second via sign and trade.

The roster looks kind of confusing as of today, but a month from now, I'm guess that Celtics team is going to look a lot different and a hell of a lot more formidable.

Oakmont_4
06-23-2017, 03:04 PM
Celtics are going to trade for PG.

they're just waiting for Free Agency to start so they can start dumping contracts etc.

Yup.

Key is we need to sign the MAX guy first. Then we can go over the cap via trade for PG. I think the C's have the most assets to offer for PG.. If/when he's traded, if it's not to the C's...Ainge messed up badly.

I think it will happen though.

Hayward first

Then PG.

Oakmont_4
06-23-2017, 03:05 PM
Yeah, I think it's kind of funny how much flack I've seen some fans and analysts give Boston after last night. They're still sitting extremely pretty right now. They could add Hayward or Griffin, then turn around and still trade for George right afterward. Or they could add one free agent outright and then acquire a second via sign and trade.

The roster looks kind of confusing as of today, but a month from now, I'm guess that Celtics team is going to look a lot different and a hell of a lot more formidable.

The sad part is dealing with our own fans, not even outsiders haha. Our board can be rough at times...Fans overreact way to hard in Boston. I love the passion, but sometimes its unbearable even to myself and I am a Boston fan.

Demetrius7
06-23-2017, 03:14 PM
The Celtics put themselves in a strange spot after trading that first overall pick. Boston is a team that is still stuck in the limbo of, "Do we try to win now?" or, "Are we building for the future?" to me the draft pick of Jayson Tatum continues that fact because he was the safe pick for them to make. At some point Boston has to go out and make moves that push them forward not give them options. There has been talk still of the Paul George trade but that all seems to be depending on whether or not Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics. Something that fans have been assuming for a while but I think is still a big if.

hugepatsfan
06-23-2017, 03:22 PM
Yeah, I think it's kind of funny how much flack I've seen some fans and analysts give Boston after last night. They're still sitting extremely pretty right now. They could add Hayward or Griffin, then turn around and still trade for George right afterward. Or they could add one free agent outright and then acquire a second via sign and trade.

The roster looks kind of confusing as of today, but a month from now, I'm guess that Celtics team is going to look a lot different and a hell of a lot more formidable.

I don't think there's really anything confusing about how they look. I don't think they feel they need to go all-in. Sure they're good, but they're also pretty far away from great and have a lot of room for development. If they strike out in FA and have:

IT/Rozier
Bradley/Smart
Brown/Tatum
Crowder/Yabusele
Horford/Zizic

That's a good young team with about $27M in cap space. I think if they strike out two guys to target are Dedmon and James Johnson. Reconfigure the rotation as:

IT/Smart
Bradley/Brown
Crowder/Tatum
Horford/Johnson
Dedmon/Zizic

Rozier gets knocked out of the rotation and Yabu gets stashed (I want to delay him a year). You get Dedmon/Johnson on 3 year deals to line it up where 3 years from now Horford/Crowder/Johnson/Dedmon all expire at once and you have tremendous financial flexibility. Jaylen Brown will be an RFA with a pretty cheap cap hold and you'll have a bunch of rookie contract guys.

The only tough call is next year with IT/Bradley where you probably need to pick one of them. But you'd also be adding the BRK pick and potentially the LAL pick along with our own 1st. Then the following yeah the Kings/PHI pick (if not LAL) along our own and potentially MEM & LAC picks.

It'd be great of good opportunities present themselves to go for it immediately - landing a FA like Hayward and a player like PG at a discount for example - but if not they can always stay the course long-term. Ainge doesn't have the pressure to send out multiple chips for a guy like Butler. He can wait for a GREAT deal, not just a good or OK one.

GREATNESS ONE
06-23-2017, 03:27 PM
Wow Boston is going to regret drafting Tatum over JJ...

PAOboston
06-23-2017, 06:43 PM
Wow Boston is going to regret drafting Tatum over JJ...
Based off what? They drafted the best wing scorer in the draft and got another likely lotto pick next summer too.

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