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View Full Version : Would you give Paul Milsap a max deal?



IndyRealist
05-23-2017, 10:23 AM
According to this article (http://www.ajc.com/sports/basketball/hawks-ownership-informed-millsap-won-opt-for-player-option/nYiNtqisMY95687yjhDJpL/), Paul Milsap will not exercise his player option for next year and be an unrestricted free agent. The Hawks can give him 5yr, $205 million, while anyone else can give him 4yr, $152 million.


Millsap was the Hawks’ leading scorer, at 18.1 points per game, during the regular season. He also led the team in minutes (34.0) and ranked second in rebounds (7.7), assists (3.7), steals (1.30) and blocks (0.9).

Is he worth it? What team could sign him if not the Hawks?

Eagles4Lyfe
05-23-2017, 10:31 AM
I just mentioned his name in Raps forum because him and Ibaka would be a nasty duo.

But for his ages 32,33,34,35 seasons that's just way to much for me to want to commit to.
I'd only go as high as 4/100. But if money and not winning is his motive then Hawks are his best bet.

PC
05-23-2017, 10:33 AM
Millsap is a very good player, but the new CBA is absolutely ridiculous. There is no way a player of his caliber should be commanding anywhere near an annual average salary of close to $40m.

hugepatsfan
05-23-2017, 10:33 AM
I would depending on the rest of my team. If I'm a good team that's going to lose cap max cap space when I re-sign some guys soon then he's probably one of the top players that will switch teams in the next few seasons so I'd do it. If I was rebuilding from scratch I wouldn't. If I thought I had a real, legitimate shot at others (i.e. Paul George, or Cousins next year) then I wouldn't.

TrueFan420
05-23-2017, 10:55 AM
Hell no. He's a good player but not max player

Hawkeye15
05-23-2017, 11:07 AM
he would be so perfect next to Towns. But, we aren't quite there yet, and Wiggins/Lavine/Towns will all be coming up in the next few years for new deals. Do we offer him a 4 year max?

I personally would. May as well go for it, and take a big step forward.

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 11:20 AM
Good player. But I wouldn't pay him the max based solely on his age.

Hawkeye15
05-23-2017, 11:24 AM
Good player. But I wouldn't pay him the max based solely on his age.

yeah dude, if he were 28, he would be PAID with no reservations..

tp13baby
05-23-2017, 11:50 AM
Denver will most certainly give him a max. Harris Jokic Murray Mudiay Juancho. Its a position of need and helps our defense immediately.

Lil Rhody
05-23-2017, 12:12 PM
Would love for the Celtics to get him for a two year deal

DanG
05-23-2017, 01:17 PM
Hell no. First of all, if you want to win a championship with him he has to be your 3rd option. Considering his age he's worth around 2yr/40M or something like 4yrs/65M if you want him long-term.

40M for a 36 year old Millsap? This new CBA is just built for stupid contracts. No wonder the league is so lopsided. Most players, especially mediocre ones just don't get it.

If I'm KD & Curry, I take 20M per year instead of 30-40M, get a decent Center and **** on the league for the next 5 years. If superstars in the past made 20M max, why can't you? Do you want to be remembered as one of the all-time greats or do you want to go down as the next Carmelo Anthony who just doesn't understand a thing about winning.

Little to do with Millsap, I don't know what he's going to do, but this is the way it is.

IndyRealist
05-23-2017, 01:23 PM
Hell no. First of all, if you want to win a championship with him he has to be your 3rd option. Considering his age he's worth around 2yr/40M or something like 4yrs/65M if you want him long-term.

40M for a 36 year old Millsap? This new CBA is just built for stupid contracts. No wonder the league is so lopsided. Most players, especially mediocre ones just don't get it.

If I'm KD & Curry, I take 20M per year instead of 30-40M, get a decent Center and **** on the league for the next 5 years. If superstars in the past made 20M max, why can't you? Do you want to be remembered as one of the all-time greats or do you want to go down as the next Carmelo Anthony who just doesn't understand a thing about winning.

Little to do with Millsap, I don't know what he's going to do, but this is the way it is.

So you're answer is that superstars should take a 50% paycut to have a better team? Are YOU willing to take a 50% paycut so your job can hire better people? It's easy to say when it's not your money.

GoferKing_
05-23-2017, 01:26 PM
Nope.

Kyben36
05-23-2017, 01:52 PM
A typical team, absolutly not. I think the bulls need to pursue him though, would be a major help for jimmy in actually finding him some consistant help, yes it would look bad long term, but otherwise, jimmy is just wasting here anyway. Either trade him or you have to go for some tallent. If milsap is the best you can get, so be it.

Quinnsanity
05-23-2017, 02:27 PM
It would depend on the specific team and circumstance. I'm inclined to say that team and circumstance doesn't really exist right now.

If you're signing Millsap to a max deal right now it's because you think adding him makes you a legitimate threat to win the championship. Before you consider the cap implications, how many teams could just add Millsap to what they already have and say "we have a realistic chance to beat Golden State?" It's probably just Cleveland and San Antonio, right? Maybe Houston? Well Cleveland can't get to that kind of space. San Antonio could, but they'd never choose Millsap over Chris Paul, Gordon Hayward or even just holding off on spending until next year when their only major salary is Kawhi and they can totally remake the team. Houston could too if they could move Ryan Anderson, which as I've spoken about in other threads, I'm pretty dubious of. And I'm not sure if Houston with Millsap in Anderson's place is really a threat to the Warriors.

You probably only have another year or two of Millsap's prime left, if that. He'd be a great theoretical fit in Minnesota or Denver, but by the time the rest of the team is ready to compete he'll be a shell of his former self. Why not save that bullet for a player better aligned chronologically with your current players? It's just unrealistic to expect teams that young to compete so soon even with someone like Millsap on the roster.

I expect someone to max Millsap out whether or not it's intelligent. Teams settle for mediocrity pretty regularly and I guess it's neat to be able to say you have an All Star. But there are very few teams that make sense for Millsap on a max contract.

To be clear though, in Year 1 of his deal, Millsap is a max-level player. I have him as the 27th best player in basketball right now, ahead of Whiteside, DeAndre and Beal who all got maxes without a blink. He's basically 90-95% of Draymond Green on defense with a really diverse offensive game suitable for any system. That is a max player... in the first year. It's the aging that concerns me. But let's be clear about how good Millsap is at this moment. He is a tremendous player who is good enough to warrant a max as far as market value goes even if he's not the traditional 25-point scoring superstar.

Vee-Rex
05-23-2017, 02:31 PM
Nope, no way.

I would have traded his *** for draft picks at the deadline. It's just another situation where a team failed to bring in assets when they could have gotten them.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-23-2017, 02:53 PM
I wouldn't mind Millsap on the Bucks if the Bucks salary dumped Delly, Telly, Henson. But that's about $30M per only. Still a lot down the line with age and all. He could nose dive and be dead weight soon enough. Bad enough the Hawks got lazy Howard. A team with a ton of cap could over pay on a short deal like 2 years like the nets and offer 2/$60M. $30M per. Doubt they wanna give Celtics any more high lottery picks. Nets probably chase after KCP and other RFA's with max dollars.

tp13baby
05-23-2017, 03:33 PM
in year 4 he won't be worth it, but I think he will age pretty well. He can kind of do it all and he doesn't rely on athleticism to excel. More of a physical body that will figure it out.

hugepatsfan
05-23-2017, 03:40 PM
he would be so perfect next to Towns. But, we aren't quite there yet, and Wiggins/Lavine/Towns will all be coming up in the next few years for new deals. Do we offer him a 4 year max?

I personally would. May as well go for it, and take a big step forward.

That's a nice fit. I assume you guys would have to salary dump Cole Aldrich and probably stretch Pekovich to make it work. Issac seems like an intriguing guys for you guys in the draft.

Rubio/Dunn
Lavine/(Dunn)
Wiggins/Issac
Millsap/Dieng
Towns/(Dieng)

Tyus Jones and Nemanja Bjelica can get the scrap minutes but that's an extremely solid 8 man rotation. Should push for playoffs.

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 03:47 PM
Nope, no way.

I would have traded his *** for draft picks at the deadline. It's just another situation where a team failed to bring in assets when they could have gotten them.

They still can, it's called a Sign and Trade...

Who were they going to trade him for at the deadline? What team was going to trade a first round pick for a half year rental? In addition to that, you have to have the salaries to send out and match...Can't think of a playoff team that could've even made it work. That leaves non playoff teams...What non playoff team is giving up a draft pick for a half year rental in a year you're not making the playoffs...

I don't get you man, you think it's as easy as snapping your fingers to trade a player with a massive salary. Teams aren't just going to take that on out of good will....

hugepatsfan
05-23-2017, 04:05 PM
I wouldn't mind Millsap on the Bucks if the Bucks salary dumped Delly, Telly, Henson. But that's about $30M per only. Still a lot down the line with age and all. He could nose dive and be dead weight soon enough. Bad enough the Hawks got lazy Howard. A team with a ton of cap could over pay on a short deal like 2 years like the nets and offer 2/$60M. $30M per. Doubt they wanna give Celtics any more high lottery picks. Nets probably chase after KCP and other RFA's with max dollars.

Bucks are really interesting. I think if Monroe and Hawes opt out it could get super interesting. Right now you guys are at about $6.8M over. Snell's cap gold would be another $5.9M - now $12.7M over. If Moose opts out though that's $17.9M saved so now you're $5.2M under. Hawes saves another $6.0M to get to $11.2M under. I bet there's some team out there who would take Telly as a stretch 4 which would save another $10.5M - now under by $21.7M. I bet if you guys attach #16 you could easily get a team (Nets) to take back Henson. That frees $11.4M up to get to $33.1M of cap space.

Not quite a max but very few teams will be able to offer him a true 35% max. I think he could go for MIL in this case. What an interesting group that would be:

Brogdon/Delly
Middleton/Snell
Giannis
Millsap/Parker
Maker

That's a really exciting squad IMO.

DanG
05-23-2017, 04:06 PM
So you're answer is that superstars should take a 50% paycut to have a better team? Are YOU willing to take a 50% paycut so your job can hire better people? It's easy to say when it's not your money.

That is not a good comparison. NBA superstars make more money selling shoes than Tom Brady does winning superbowls. Steph Curry & Kevin Durant will make 35M off the court this year. That's 4 times more than Tom Brady, yet he's willing to take a paycut for his team to have better chances of winning. A few years ago an average superstar made 20M per year off his NBA contract, nowadays a player like John Wall is making 17M per and we act as if he's broke.

If I'm an NBA team and a guy like Millsap comes up to you and demands 30M per year, I hang up the phone immediately. The Golden State situation is unique, they have most of the contracts coming off the books this season and you have Klay Thompson and Draymond Green locked in for 3-4 years with very reasonable contracts. Now, if KD and Steph are willing to put their egos aside and take 21M instead of 34M, you're looking at a 5 year championship run. Are they worth the max? Sure, but looking at your endorsement deals and taking into consideration what superstars used to make, it's worth taking the opportunity to dominate other teams who are overpaying for mediocre players.

You only give max contracts to players who are #1, sometimes #2 options on a championship caliber team. If you do anything else, you're going to be mediocre. That's why the Celtics should trade Isiah Thomas immediately. That's why you don't give Gordon Hayward 30-35M per year if your goal is to win championships. The question you have to ask yourself is can you win a championship with this player being your first option. If the answer is no and you give him the max, you are most likely going to be mediocre.

Players who are worth the max right now:
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Steph Curry
Giannis
KAT
Anthony Davis
James Harden
Kawhi Leonard

If you give the max to players like Paul Millsap you take away your chances of having a contending team.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-23-2017, 06:17 PM
Bucks are really interesting. I think if Monroe and Hawes opt out it could get super interesting. Right now you guys are at about $6.8M over. Snell's cap gold would be another $5.9M - now $12.7M over. If Moose opts out though that's $17.9M saved so now you're $5.2M under. Hawes saves another $6.0M to get to $11.2M under. I bet there's some team out there who would take Telly as a stretch 4 which would save another $10.5M - now under by $21.7M. I bet if you guys attach #16 you could easily get a team (Nets) to take back Henson. That frees $11.4M up to get to $33.1M of cap space.

Not quite a max but very few teams will be able to offer him a true 35% max. I think he could go for MIL in this case. What an interesting group that would be:

Brogdon/Delly
Middleton/Snell
Giannis
Millsap/Parker
Maker

That's a really exciting squad IMO.

Before Magic fired Hennigan they had Telly on the white wash board. But now the Magic just hired Bucks GM Hammond. Crossing my fingers Hammond wants Telly or Henson or Delly. Heck 76ers got 4 second round picks. Maybe Delly to them for a second round pick? But I'm sure 76ers rather keep their cap or want picks back if they eat salary. I know LeBron misses Delly. But Cavs maxed out.

Vee-Rex
05-23-2017, 06:28 PM
They still can, it's called a Sign and Trade...

Who were they going to trade him for at the deadline? What team was going to trade a first round pick for a half year rental? In addition to that, you have to have the salaries to send out and match...Can't think of a playoff team that could've even made it work. That leaves non playoff teams...What non playoff team is giving up a draft pick for a half year rental in a year you're not making the playoffs...

I don't get you man, you think it's as easy as snapping your fingers to trade a player with a massive salary. Teams aren't just going to take that on out of good will....

Sign&Trades are very infrequent and are less likely to be done with an older player.

The Raptors traded a 1st round pick for Serge Ibaka for a half year rental. You don't think Millsap could land a 1st for a half year? Dude, what are you on?

Atlanta was receiving a bunch of offers for Millsap at the deadline (Toronto, Denver, Sacramento) and a 1st was ALWAYS in the equation. Atlanta just had big heads and wanted a behemoth-like return for Millsap. They easily could've had a 1st round pick.

I don't get you. You think that everyone should just sit on their soon-to-be free agent players and not acquire returns WHEN AINGE BRILLIANTLY SHOWED YOU HOW IT WORKS. Wow.

So instead, Millsap is gonna walk and likely get a max contract, or Atlanta's gonna shell out max dollars to keep him. On what planet is not trading him at the deadline the best move, bro?

IndyRealist
05-23-2017, 06:31 PM
That is not a good comparison. NBA superstars make more money selling shoes than Tom Brady does winning superbowls. Steph Curry & Kevin Durant will make 35M off the court this year. That's 4 times more than Tom Brady, yet he's willing to take a paycut for his team to have better chances of winning. A few years ago an average superstar made 20M per year off his NBA contract, nowadays a player like John Wall is making 17M per and we act as if he's broke.

If I'm an NBA team and a guy like Millsap comes up to you and demands 30M per year, I hang up the phone immediately. The Golden State situation is unique, they have most of the contracts coming off the books this season and you have Klay Thompson and Draymond Green locked in for 3-4 years with very reasonable contracts. Now, if KD and Steph are willing to put their egos aside and take 21M instead of 34M, you're looking at a 5 year championship run. Are they worth the max? Sure, but looking at your endorsement deals and taking into consideration what superstars used to make, it's worth taking the opportunity to dominate other teams who are overpaying for mediocre players.

You only give max contracts to players who are #1, sometimes #2 options on a championship caliber team. If you do anything else, you're going to be mediocre. That's why the Celtics should trade Isiah Thomas immediately. That's why you don't give Gordon Hayward 30-35M per year if your goal is to win championships. The question you have to ask yourself is can you win a championship with this player being your first option. If the answer is no and you give him the max, you are most likely going to be mediocre.

Players who are worth the max right now:
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Steph Curry
Giannis
KAT
Anthony Davis
James Harden
Kawhi Leonard

If you give the max to players like Paul Millsap you take away your chances of having a contending team.
People get hung up on the idea of "max" contracts. The fact is that max contracts are artificially low for just about every guy on your list. In a free market Lebron would be making $50M+/yr and would be worth every penny.

I started this thread because I think that $40M/yr was unreasonable for a player like Milsap, but he commands what the market will pay. Because if you're not going to give him $30M, someone else will.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-23-2017, 07:50 PM
He'll get 4 years, $130 million.

hugepatsfan
05-23-2017, 07:53 PM
Nope, no way.

I would have traded his *** for draft picks at the deadline. It's just another situation where a team failed to bring in assets when they could have gotten them.

Agreed. It didn't make sense to keep him and the Dwight signing was dumb. Bazemore flopped but I honestly felt he was a player on the rise so I don't fault them for that. But they should be rebuilding right now.

JAZZNC
05-23-2017, 08:36 PM
Ugh, to think we just let him walk back in the day and put all our faith in Favors.

KB24PG16
05-23-2017, 08:41 PM
no absolutely not

Quinnsanity
05-23-2017, 08:44 PM
They still can, it's called a Sign and Trade...

Who were they going to trade him for at the deadline? What team was going to trade a first round pick for a half year rental? In addition to that, you have to have the salaries to send out and match...Can't think of a playoff team that could've even made it work. That leaves non playoff teams...What non playoff team is giving up a draft pick for a half year rental in a year you're not making the playoffs...

I don't get you man, you think it's as easy as snapping your fingers to trade a player with a massive salary. Teams aren't just going to take that on out of good will....

Millsap's camp has no real incentive to do a sign-and-trade. It just weakens his new team, and unlike in the past, you can't get an extra year on your contract for doing it. If Millsap wants the fifth year, it has to be with the Hawks. And the Raptors would've given up more for Millsap than they did for Ibaka. I have to imagine they would've given up both of their firsts.


That's a nice fit. I assume you guys would have to salary dump Cole Aldrich and probably stretch Pekovich to make it work. Issac seems like an intriguing guys for you guys in the draft.

Rubio/Dunn
Lavine/(Dunn)
Wiggins/Issac
Millsap/Dieng
Towns/(Dieng)

Tyus Jones and Nemanja Bjelica can get the scrap minutes but that's an extremely solid 8 man rotation. Should push for playoffs.

They're going to get a medical exemption to waive Pekovic. He fits the criteria of having not played in a year and based on what people are saying, the jointly decided NBA/Player's Association doctor's decision seems like a formality. If they wanted to create max cap space, renouncing their holds on Shabazz, Payne and Rush basically gets them to the 30% bracket. To get to Millsap's bracket they'd just have to trade some middling salary, idk, let's say Aldrich or Jordan Hill.

FOXHOUND
05-23-2017, 08:56 PM
If I was a contender if the need, I would offer him a 3-year max or close to it with a team option for 4.

I think Boston is the only team that qualifies there. I think Spurs would also be a good fit but don't think they can clear that much space.

Tg11
05-27-2017, 01:41 PM
Millsap is a great player but nowhere near max level for me to consider I would probably put him in the $120-$150 million range as far as paying him

IndyRealist
05-27-2017, 08:33 PM
Millsap is a great player but nowhere near max level for me to consider I would probably put him in the $120-$150 million range as far as paying him

4yr, $152 million is his max for anyone but the Hawks.

eDush
05-27-2017, 09:34 PM
Hell no. He's a good player but not max playerConsidering you were willing to give Barnes the max last season, I do find that odd. I would give Millsap the max all day long over a player who could only average 4 points in the finals while missing open put backs but I guess since his age is so favorable to everyone, he is so worth it :facepalm:

eDush
05-27-2017, 09:36 PM
Millsap is a great player but nowhere near max level for me to consider I would probably put him in the $120-$150 million range as far as paying him

4yr, $152 million is his max for anyone but the Hawks.I would jump on that since i care about winning and don't have an issue with his age and consider myself fortunate if he accepts it :nod:

europagnpilgrim
05-27-2017, 10:31 PM
It would depend on the specific team and circumstance. I'm inclined to say that team and circumstance doesn't really exist right now.

If you're signing Millsap to a max deal right now it's because you think adding him makes you a legitimate threat to win the championship. Before you consider the cap implications, how many teams could just add Millsap to what they already have and say "we have a realistic chance to beat Golden State?" It's probably just Cleveland and San Antonio, right? Maybe Houston? Well Cleveland can't get to that kind of space. San Antonio could, but they'd never choose Millsap over Chris Paul, Gordon Hayward or even just holding off on spending until next year when their only major salary is Kawhi and they can totally remake the team. Houston could too if they could move Ryan Anderson, which as I've spoken about in other threads, I'm pretty dubious of. And I'm not sure if Houston with Millsap in Anderson's place is really a threat to the Warriors.

You probably only have another year or two of Millsap's prime left, if that. He'd be a great theoretical fit in Minnesota or Denver, but by the time the rest of the team is ready to compete he'll be a shell of his former self. Why not save that bullet for a player better aligned chronologically with your current players? It's just unrealistic to expect teams that young to compete so soon even with someone like Millsap on the roster.

I expect someone to max Millsap out whether or not it's intelligent. Teams settle for mediocrity pretty regularly and I guess it's neat to be able to say you have an All Star. But there are very few teams that make sense for Millsap on a max contract.

To be clear though, in Year 1 of his deal, Millsap is a max-level player. I have him as the 27th best player in basketball right now, ahead of Whiteside, DeAndre and Beal who all got maxes without a blink. He's basically 90-95% of Draymond Green on defense with a really diverse offensive game suitable for any system. That is a max player... in the first year. It's the aging that concerns me. But let's be clear about how good Millsap is at this moment. He is a tremendous player who is good enough to warrant a max as far as market value goes even if he's not the traditional 25-point scoring superstar.

I hear what you saying but those players in Beal/Whiteside/Jordan got max deals without blinking because of the age factor, if Milsap was around that age it would be a super no brainer, but I think he is on the other side of 30 which really hurts him getting the max type deal outside of basically staying in Atl and being happy super paid but they are a fringe 2nd round team at best