PDA

View Full Version : Should Durant get the blame for this lame playoffs?



LOb0
05-22-2017, 07:09 PM
Most other great players would have been bloodlusted at Golden State for beating them, especially after being up 3-1. We'd be getting that rematch right now likely.

But Durant, you know....

HandsOnTheWheel
05-22-2017, 07:22 PM
To all the fans who don't like the playoffs so far, he says then don't watch. Such a likable young man he is.

COOLbeans
05-22-2017, 07:30 PM
troll thread :clap:

HandsOnTheWheel
05-22-2017, 07:34 PM
^
Are you the same guy who said Gobert belongs in the D-League? lol.

warfelg
05-22-2017, 07:40 PM
No Durant shouldn't.

The NBA Players Association should get the blame for this playoffs. They were greedy little ***** that wanted all their money right away when Silver, the rep for the PA, and the owners warned this would happen. But they pushed to not have some type of cap smoothing so this is what they deserve.

Oakmont_4
05-22-2017, 07:48 PM
No Durant shouldn't.

The NBA Players Association should get the blame for this playoffs. They were greedy little ***** that wanted all their money right away when Silver, the rep for the PA, and the owners warned this would happen. But they pushed to not have some type of cap smoothing so this is what they deserve.

It was still the individual players decision to make this scenario come to fruition. It's one thing if Durant was on the Brooklyn Nets and going nowhere fast. But I don't think anyone saw this coming. A player who was up on the defending champs 3-1 and blows that lead. Just to turn around and join the team he lost to the following season. Nobody expected that. Even the players in the NBA were shocked. It's all on Durant. 100%. His lack of testicals and ability to compete is to blame. This will forever be a blemish on his record. He will never be regarded as one of the greats. Even if GS reels off 6 straight titles. He won't get credit for being a true great.

europagnpilgrim
05-22-2017, 07:50 PM
No

he didn't force a trade or demanded this or not, he used his free agency power and joined a super power

good for KD, enjoy while it is here now because this upcoming free agency could end it since we know they wont be able to max out all 4 guys with Klay/Green coming up for pretty much max extensions in next 2-3yrs

warfelg
05-22-2017, 08:05 PM
It was still the individual players decision to make this scenario come to fruition. It's one thing if Durant was on the Brooklyn Nets and going nowhere fast. But I don't think anyone saw this coming. A player who was up on the defending champs 3-1 and blows that lead. Just to turn around and join the team he lost to the following season. Nobody expected that. Even the players in the NBA were shocked. It's all on Durant. 100%. His lack of testicals and ability to compete is to blame. This will forever be a blemish on his record. He will never be regarded as one of the greats. Even if GS reels off 6 straight titles. He won't get credit for being a true great.

Silver saw it as possible, and warned them. People knew it was possible. It's the PA's fault for pushing this hard for this. They saw money and wanted it right away. Because the older guys were in charge and they saw it as a way for one last huge payday before retiring.

eDush
05-22-2017, 09:40 PM
Most other great players would have been bloodlusted at Golden State for beating them, especially after being up 3-1. We'd be getting that rematch right now likely.

But Durant, you know....

We were beating teams by double digits easily once Durant sat out due to injury during the regular season but go ahead and be a hater :nod:

eDush
05-22-2017, 09:44 PM
It was still the individual players decision to make this scenario come to fruition. It's one thing if Durant was on the Brooklyn Nets and going nowhere fast. But I don't think anyone saw this coming. A player who was up on the defending champs 3-1 and blows that lead. Just to turn around and join the team he lost to the following season. Nobody expected that. Even the players in the NBA were shocked. It's all on Durant. 100%. His lack of testicals and ability to compete is to blame. This will forever be a blemish on his record. He will never be regarded as one of the greats. Even if GS reels off 6 straight titles. He won't get credit for being a true great.

So who gets the credit? Only Dubs Nation knows :nod:

lol, please
05-22-2017, 10:05 PM
Most other great players would have been bloodlusted at Golden State for beating them, especially after being up 3-1. We'd be getting that rematch right now likely.

But Durant, you know....

Why blame one guy for whole teams of players not putting forth the effort to be more competitive?

Why criticize a FA for going with the best situation available?

Not sure why people act like Durant having the balls to take the reigns of an offensive and defensive juggernaut like the Warriors and lead them to a championship, is a cowardly thing all of the sudden. Durant will go down as one of the GOATs. Have some appreciation for the game and give him respect.

Saddletramp
05-22-2017, 10:51 PM
To all the fans who don't like the playoffs so far, he says then don't watch. Such a likable young man he is.

Which is hilarious coming from him. Quit when things aren't going your way. Perfectly sums up Durant.

GREATNESS ONE
05-22-2017, 11:57 PM
No offense to OP but this thread is ****ing ridiculous.

GREATNESS ONE
05-22-2017, 11:58 PM
Which is hilarious coming from him. Quit when things aren't going your way. Perfectly sums up Durant.

And 100% Lebron.

GREATNESS ONE
05-22-2017, 11:59 PM
I still don't understand how these young fans can think this is different?!?!?!?

Not 1 not 2 not 3 not 4, 5,6 not 7 not 8....

LOb0
05-23-2017, 12:06 AM
I still don't understand how these young fans can think this is different?!?!?!?

Not 1 not 2 not 3 not 4, 5,6 not 7 not 8....

Because LeBron didn't join a team where he could not play and still be the best in the league. He also didn't join the team he just lost to.

Do you understand now?

Saddletramp
05-23-2017, 12:09 AM
Because LeBron didn't join a team where he could not play and still be the best in the league. He also didn't join the team he just lost to.

Do you understand now?

He still won't understand. He's still salty that Lebron flicked Kobe aside like a fly.

LOb0
05-23-2017, 12:11 AM
He still won't understand. He's still salty that Lebron flicked Kobe aside like a fly.

Lol already surpassed Kobe by what 8 or more spots? At 32.

Saddletramp
05-23-2017, 12:38 AM
Lol already surpassed Kobe by what 8 or more spots? At 32.

Oh yeah, it happened years ago but some of these guys don't forget. I'm the same way about certain things.

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 12:43 AM
Oh yeah, it happened years ago but some of these guys don't forget. I'm the same way about certain things.

Lmao, did someone really argue Kobe > LeBron? That was SO past my mind that it seems decades ago it was still a debate. LeBron surpassed Kobe two years ago. Longevity, not rings, was the only thing separating those two. The past three LeBron seasons is enough to boost him.

LOb0
05-23-2017, 12:57 AM
Lmao, did someone really argue Kobe > LeBron? That was SO past my mind that it seems decades ago it was still a debate. LeBron surpassed Kobe two years ago. Longevity, not rings, was the only thing separating those two. The past three LeBron seasons is enough to boost him.

You'd be surprised how many still think that. Naturally they have nothing to back it up with. The rings thing was real for a short time.

COOLbeans
05-23-2017, 01:26 AM
^
Are you the same guy who said Gobert belongs in the D-League? lol.

no. at least have your facts right. im sure ive said other asinine stuff though. please get it right next time when youre trying to be lol

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 06:17 AM
Silver saw it as possible, and warned them. People knew it was possible. It's the PA's fault for pushing this hard for this. They saw money and wanted it right away. Because the older guys were in charge and they saw it as a way for one last huge payday before retiring.

Yup, you said that already. The individual ultimately made it happen though. That's like saying the car manufacture is responsible for people speeding because they allowed cars to go over 65mph. How is it not on the person actually making the decision?

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 06:19 AM
So who gets the credit? Only Dubs Nation knows :nod:

Anything GS does is all on Curry, Green, Thompson...IMO. And it really pisses me off what KD did because I loved rooting for those guys. And now I just can't...

If/when the GS v CLE finals starts...I will not watch. That is my meaningless protest against the NBA and KD. And to a lesser extent LBJ.

Vinylman
05-23-2017, 07:01 AM
Anything GS does is all on Curry, Green, Thompson...IMO. And it really pisses me off what KD did because I loved rooting for those guys. And now I just can't...



If/when the GS v CLE finals starts...I will not watch. That is my meaningless protest against the NBA and KD. And to a lesser extent LBJ.

bingo to the bolded

I can never root for GS once Durant went there... I really liked that core other than Green who is a douche and cost them a second chip because he is an ignorant POS...

The league will continue to prosper for a period time because they continue to diversify the consumer base with non-traditional fans at the expense of the hardcore fans... unfortunately that will dry up at some point and then what?

The marketing machines of BSPN and TNTitties are already running scared knowing the economics of their deals over the next couple of years will become a disaster to their profitability...

RIP NBA... Good thing Ringling Brothers went out of business... one less entity for the NBA to compete with.

warfelg
05-23-2017, 08:22 AM
Yup, you said that already. The individual ultimately made it happen though. That's like saying the car manufacture is responsible for people speeding because they allowed cars to go over 65mph. How is it not on the person actually making the decision?

No this is more like having a seatbelt, everyone telling you about the seatbelt, not wearing it, then when someone get's thrown out of the car saying the seatbelt didn't work.

The top of the NBA PA didn't want cap smoothing because guys like CP3, LBJ, Iggy, Carmelo are near the top of the command. They are all older guys who say personal gain with no cap smoothing. So even though everyone warned them that this could happen, they cared too much about their personal gain to think about the implications of what could happen.

This isn't on Durant for taking an option that was available to him. This is on the leaders of the NBA PA for putting personal gain above what was the greater good.

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 08:53 AM
No this is more like having a seatbelt, everyone telling you about the seatbelt, not wearing it, then when someone get's thrown out of the car saying the seatbelt didn't work.

Terrible comparison. KD CHOSE to sign with GS. The person in your example didn't CHOOSE to get thrown out of the car...


The top of the NBA PA didn't want cap smoothing because guys like CP3, LBJ, Iggy, Carmelo are near the top of the command. They are all older guys who say personal gain with no cap smoothing. So even though everyone warned them that this could happen, they cared too much about their personal gain to think about the implications of what could happen.

Disagree. They made the right choice. They have to fight for every dollar available. It's Millionaires vs. Billionaires. Why should the billionaires get an interest free loan over time so they can "smooth" the cap. Give the players the money now and let them make the right choice. KD didn't. It's on him


This isn't on Durant for taking an option that was available to him. This is on the leaders of the NBA PA for putting personal gain above what was the greater good

Haha that's exactly what KD did...

Scoots
05-23-2017, 09:09 AM
Hehe ... analogies always suck ... but "The person in your example didn't CHOOSE to get thrown out of the car..."? Really? LOL.

PayDaPiper
05-23-2017, 09:21 AM
Lebron has ZERO competition in the East and cruises to the finals each year

The Western conference finals has always had two well matched teams. Would have been the same this year if it were not for Leonard's injury.

Cav's have the highest payroll in the history of the NBA. Lebron should get more blame, he always has the most stacked team in the East, at least for the past 7 years

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 09:24 AM
Hehe ... analogies always suck ... but "The person in your example didn't CHOOSE to get thrown out of the car..."? Really? LOL.

Umm so you're saying he did?

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 09:25 AM
Lebron has ZERO competition in the East and cruises to the finals each year

The Western conference finals has always had two well matched teams. Would have been the same this year if it were not for Leonard's injury.

Cav's have the highest payroll in the history of the NBA. Lebron should get more blame, he always has the most stacked team in the East, at least for the past 7 years

I give him plenty of blame, he started this whole ordeal in Miami. But KD topped it off and made the most egregious decision.

warfelg
05-23-2017, 09:38 AM
Hehe ... analogies always suck ... but "The person in your example didn't CHOOSE to get thrown out of the car..."? Really? LOL.

The example that's usually used and I learned in one of my sports management classes, is the kid with a lemonade stand.

One kid asks their parents for money for a lemonade stand, and is given $20. The come back with lemons, sugar, ice, cups, and napkins, as well as 2 candy bars. The parent asks why the candy bars, the kid says "Because I had extra money."

Another kid does the same thing, but the parents buy the supplies for them and spends $10. They notice the lemonade sells out, so the next time they spend $4 extra on supplies. Sell out again and they get $6 worth of supplies.

In the end both kids got the same amount of money, but with the second kid, their chance to take advantage of the system was limited by the way the parents managed and stipened out the $20, only increasing as it was needed. And you don't fault the first kid for spending the money on the candy, because it was a purchase of opportunity, you blame the parent for offering the chance to do so.

So applying that to this situation, Durant and the GSW aren't to blame for the situation and the lame playoffs. They were given an opportunity and used it. Blame the NBA PA, who knew that there was a chance this could happen, and chose to do it anyways.

And FWIW Silvers offer was to take that near $30mil jump in the cap with the new TV Contract, and put $10 mil increase the year before it kicked in, and added $10mil extra for the next two years, then increase incrementally from there. He didn't want to hold back money from the players, he wanted to make it so over the course of 3 years more players got paid more. CP3 and LeBron wanted that money all at once so the star players could all get a bigger share of the pie at the same time.

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 09:55 AM
The example that's usually used and I learned in one of my sports management classes, is the kid with a lemonade stand.

One kid asks their parents for money for a lemonade stand, and is given $20. The come back with lemons, sugar, ice, cups, and napkins, as well as 2 candy bars. The parent asks why the candy bars, the kid says "Because I had extra money."

Another kid does the same thing, but the parents buy the supplies for them and spends $10. They notice the lemonade sells out, so the next time they spend $4 extra on supplies. Sell out again and they get $6 worth of supplies.

In the end both kids got the same amount of money, but with the second kid, their chance to take advantage of the system was limited by the way the parents managed and stipened out the $20, only increasing as it was needed. And you don't fault the first kid for spending the money on the candy, because it was a purchase of opportunity, you blame the parent for offering the chance to do so.

So applying that to this situation, Durant and the GSW aren't to blame for the situation and the lame playoffs. They were given an opportunity and used it. Blame the NBA PA, who knew that there was a chance this could happen, and chose to do it anyways.

And FWIW Silvers offer was to take that near $30mil jump in the cap with the new TV Contract, and put $10 mil increase the year before it kicked in, and added $10mil extra for the next two years, then increase incrementally from there. He didn't want to hold back money from the players, he wanted to make it so over the course of 3 years more players got paid more. CP3 and LeBron wanted that money all at once so the star players could all get a bigger share of the pie at the same time.

Right but which stars got a bigger share of the pie? None. KD still would have gotten the same share, it just would be with a different team. All you did was take away options from KD. Additionally, others who got paid last offseason wouldn't have gotten the money they got, all while KD would've been making MAX money in either scenario. So yes, it could have prevented KD's decision. But it also would've hit other players wallets at the same time. That is not good for the NBAPA and it's exactly why they chose to get the money in this fashion. It wouldn't have affected the Cavs, LBJ would be making the same in CLE despite the "smoothing", The Celtics would still have signed Horford, The Bulls would still have signed Wade.

The guys who would have been hurt by smoothing

Mozgov
Batum
Parsons
Turner
Howard

So this actually goes against your point. Smoothing would have hurt the mid tier guys, not the top end guys. The top end guys are going to get paid their money either way. With smoothing it would equal less money for the middle guys.

Hawkeye15
05-23-2017, 10:31 AM
No Durant shouldn't.

The NBA Players Association should get the blame for this playoffs. They were greedy little ***** that wanted all their money right away when Silver, the rep for the PA, and the owners warned this would happen. But they pushed to not have some type of cap smoothing so this is what they deserve.

yep

pacofunk64
05-23-2017, 10:39 AM
Nope don't blame him one bit. Hell I don't blame him for joining a great team. As a fan I hate that he did it because it did take some balance out. It's hard to say just how much of a fight SA would have put up even with Leonard. They likely would have won game 2 but maybe that was it.

The real blame is the fact there is not enough elite talent.

Mell413
05-23-2017, 10:43 AM
I think Durant joining GS and LeBron being LeBron are the two biggest reasons why these playoffs aren't all that compelling.

nastynice
05-23-2017, 11:50 AM
To all the fans who don't like the playoffs so far, he says then don't watch. Such a likable young man he is.

Durant said that?

If so, my respect for him just went up a notch

Htownballa1622
05-23-2017, 12:40 PM
Durant said that?

If so, my respect for him just went up a notch

Why? You haven't noticed that he's constantly trying to play the bitter little red headed step child?

"KD's not nice."

"I'm tired of being 2nd. Drafted 2nd. 2nd in mvp voting. 2nd to LeBron."

He's always been a beta that lashes out on media, reporters, or fans.

I guess I've always noticed that he's a pompous ***hole. He completes the Warriors in that way.

GoferKing_
05-23-2017, 01:29 PM
Some part of the blame is on him but he is not responsible for injuries, underperforming players, shiet coaches, or awful eastern conference.

Vee-Rex
05-23-2017, 01:37 PM
I think the league has the right system in place but why are people blaming individual players?

Yeah I think Durant is beta/soft as **** but he was a free agent and chose to go wherever he wanted. That's on him and he was well within his right to choose GS.

How about the teams sitting on 325409824323 draft picks over the next 10 years who have an all-star already yet refuse to take the risk to build a team strong enough to compete with one of GS or CLE? I'm not singling out Boston either - plenty of other teams have all their draft picks for the next 10 years yet won't trade 2 or 3 to pull in an all-star/superstar talent to complement their own.

GS is a super team because they drafted well and were fortunate with the one-time cap spike that allowed them to signed one big-time free agent.

Cleveland is a super team because they were fortunate LeBron returned but also traded away all their freaking draft picks (TWO 2013 1st rounds, 2014 1st round, 2015 2nd round, TWO 2017 1st rounds, TWO 2017 2nd rounds, 2018 2nd round, 2019 1st round, THREE 2019 2nd rounds, 2020 2nd round).

When I look at almost every other teams draft picks, they're sitting on a 1st and 2nd round from 2017-2021. If you have ONE all-star or superstar already, trade some of that **** for a 2nd and that will entice a big-time free agent to complete your big three.

Trade some of your talent/players to acquire draft picks if you're still searching for one all-star/superstar prospect.

OR, you can screw up your future. The point is - there's 30 teams in the league. Some are in various stages of development but you can't tell me that there's not several teams among those 28 that aren't able to build upon their team enough to challenge the Cavs or Warriors. If teams don't have the balls to take that risk (and fans support the cautious approach) then how on earth can they whine about parity? STFU and be patient and watch your team most likely fail on their draft selections.

Vee-Rex
05-23-2017, 01:50 PM
I'm gonna add onto the above:

The freaking Atlanta Hawks offered Indiana 4 FIRST ROUND PICKS for Paul George. Probably a mistake because they're not likely to get anywhere, but why the **** hasn't a team like Houston or Toronto done that? The LAC got 7 draft picks over the next 4 years, why not go crazy and offer Reddick + fillers + 3 or 4 picks to wheel in PG13 to L.A? If done a year ago (after Durant signed with GS), they'd have had 2 years to let CP3/Griffin/Jordan convince him to stay long-term.

In the end, the injuries hurt the Clippers but if you're gonna ride the same core why not improve it big time, especially after a 73-win team added Durant? Go all in or start rebuilding.

Again, there's risks with everything but you can't get mad at one team who drafted well or the other team that took the giant risk to throw their entire future into a 5-year championship window.

hugepatsfan
05-23-2017, 01:51 PM
I think the league has the right system in place but why are people blaming individual players?

Yeah I think Durant is beta/soft as **** but he was a free agent and chose to go wherever he wanted. That's on him and he was well within his right to choose GS.

How about the teams sitting on 325409824323 draft picks over the next 10 years who have an all-star already yet refuse to take the risk to build a team strong enough to compete with one of GS or CLE? I'm not singling out Boston either - plenty of other teams have all their draft picks for the next 10 years yet won't trade 2 or 3 to pull in an all-star/superstar talent to complement their own.

GS is a super team because they drafted well and were fortunate with the one-time cap spike that allowed them to signed one big-time free agent.

Cleveland is a super team because they were fortunate LeBron returned but also traded away all their freaking draft picks (TWO 2013 1st rounds, 2014 1st round, 2015 2nd round, TWO 2017 1st rounds, TWO 2017 2nd rounds, 2018 2nd round, 2019 1st round, THREE 2019 2nd rounds, 2020 2nd round).

When I look at almost every other teams draft picks, they're sitting on a 1st and 2nd round from 2017-2021. If you have ONE all-star or superstar already, trade some of that **** for a 2nd and that will entice a big-time free agent to complete your big three.

Trade some of your talent/players to acquire draft picks if you're still searching for one all-star/superstar prospect.

OR, you can screw up your future. The point is - there's 30 teams in the league. Some are in various stages of development but you can't tell me that there's not several teams among those 28 that aren't able to build upon their team enough to challenge the Cavs or Warriors. If teams don't have the balls to take that risk (and fans support the cautious approach) then how on earth can they whine about parity? STFU and be patient and watch your team most likely fail on their draft selections.

That very rarely works under the cap though. It's very tough to have 2 all stars and then be able to sign a third. You have to build it up and then go over the cap. That's what your Cavs did. They drafted an all star in Kyrie. They signed one in Lebron. Then they went over the cap in trades for a third in Love. You want teams to do the trade first and then sign the FA... if CLE had done that with Love they wouldn't have been able to sign Lebron. You don't really seem to understand much about team building. You stamp your feet and say "get all stars, JUST DO IT" and you list 2nd round picks and late 1sts like they have any value in trades. They're fine for getting role players, yeah. But if you lock yourself into role players you don't get the chance to draft high enough for stars (unless you're amazingly lucky) and you take up the cap space needed to sign them. It's incredibly difficult to build a base of 3 all stars. And now we live in a league where even 3 all stars isn't enough in a vacuum because there are other teams with 4 of them (2 being MVP candidates) or 3 all stars with one of them being the GOAT. So you getting the last 3 all stars on the all star roster will still result in a team that gets laughed off the court this time of year regardless of what conference you're in.

You want teams to sell out so they can lose in 6 every year instead of getting swept. That'll make for a more fun playoff series, sure. But at the end of the day those teams will never have a chance to actually win unless they can get a perfect storm of talent to compete. You can't just force that - it's really ****ing tough. GS had to make improbably draft picks (Green in round 2, MVP candidate at #7, Klay an incredible steal at #11) and have a once in a lifetime cap spike to build what they have. CLE had to get the #1 pick 3 years out of 4 and have the all time GOAT want to sign with them in FA because he was from there to build what they have. That isn't something a team can just snap their fingers and replicate. The bar has been set so high now and if you want to actually win you need to be able to get to those heights. And a huge part of that is layering your moves to where you can continue to build and not "max out" your roster.

Vee-Rex
05-23-2017, 02:18 PM
That very rarely works under the cap though. It's very tough to have 2 all stars and then be able to sign a third. You have to build it up and then go over the cap. That's what your Cavs did. They drafted an all star in Kyrie. They signed one in Lebron. Then they went over the cap in trades for a third in Love. You want teams to do the trade first and then sign the FA... if CLE had done that with Love they wouldn't have been able to sign Lebron. You don't really seem to understand much about team building. You stamp your feet and say "get all stars, JUST DO IT" and you list 2nd round picks and late 1sts like they have any value in trades. They're fine for getting role players, yeah. But if you lock yourself into role players you don't get the chance to draft high enough for stars (unless you're amazingly lucky) and you take up the cap space needed to sign them. It's incredibly difficult to build a base of 3 all stars. And now we live in a league where even 3 all stars isn't enough in a vacuum because there are other teams with 4 of them (2 being MVP candidates) or 3 all stars with one of them being the GOAT. So you getting the last 3 all stars on the all star roster will still result in a team that gets laughed off the court this time of year regardless of what conference you're in.


That was an example, and while rare, it's still entirely possible if you manage your team well. But if a team is willing to make big moves in the same time frame they can come up with a deal with a trade and use that to entice an all-star to sign before pulling the trigger on that trade.

I realize late 1sts and 2nd round picks don't have much value but if you offer a high quantity that'll easily entice a team. It's all about timing - I'm not saying a team can offer a bunch of picks to get any guy in the league, but if a particular guy is on his way out the door then a ton of draft picks will almost certainly catch their ear, late 1sts or not.

Why do you think Butler could've been acquired at the deadline for so cheap (relative to what he would normally require) and the Bulls were imploding and thinking about rebuilding?

Why do you think Cousins was acquired for a bag of peanuts?

There are times where certain superstars are available for cheaper - that's when you pounce.

The only reason your Celtics aren't bottom of the barrel now is because Ainge found the perfect opportunity to cash in on Garnett and Pierce and then Rondo - how many teams are doing that right now? Think about that right now. 28 other teams - how many are cashing in on their soon-to-be free agents?

The Raptors decided to sit on their hands with Lowry - why didn't they trade him when they should've known they couldn't be nothing more than a treadmill unless they got more all-star talent?

The Grizzlies are happy to be a treadmill team and make money reaching the playoffs every year - so they re-signed Conley to a stupid deal. They could've traded him a year earlier and gotten draft picks in return. They could've trade Randolph a year ago and got a 1st round pick (mid-late), instead he's a free agent right now.

It's tough to get 3 all-stars, where did I say it was easy? But how many teams do you see that are out there making the necessary cap-relief and draft pick-acquiring trades to build that 3 all-star team? How many ridiculous contracts are being signed just to keep money flowing?

Come on, man - you can't sit there and act like all these teams are just helpless victims and aren't contributing to their own incompetence in some form or fashion, through stupid signings or extreme passiveness.



You want teams to sell out so they can lose in 6 every year instead of getting swept. That'll make for a more fun playoff series, sure. But at the end of the day those teams will never have a chance to actually win unless they can get a perfect storm of talent to compete. You can't just force that - it's really ****ing tough. GS had to make improbably draft picks (Green in round 2, MVP candidate at #7, Klay an incredible steal at #11) and have a once in a lifetime cap spike to build what they have. CLE had to get the #1 pick 3 years out of 4 and have the all time GOAT want to sign with them in FA because he was from there to build what they have. That isn't something a team can just snap their fingers and replicate. The bar has been set so high now and if you want to actually win you need to be able to get to those heights. And a huge part of that is layering your moves to where you can continue to build and not "max out" your roster.

That's the MAJOR problem right there - you and everyone else envisioning some monumental bar that is impossible to reach, yet GS AND CLE have both come close to losing or reached a point where they could've lost to teams that weren't them (GS down 2-1 vs. Memphis, down 3-1 vs. OKC, CLE down 2-1 vs. Chicago, and tied 2-2 vs. Toronto). If Memphis had an additional all-star or OKC, or Chicago or Toronto, then it's very possible either team could've been eliminated in those years. Does Durant join GS if that's the case? What happens with Love, does he get traded?

Until a team is willing to go all in and try to put together an all-star laden squad to challenge them, it'll only get worse. Cleveland is up 2-1 on Boston right now because of a **** ton of effort on Boston's part, you mean to tell me if the C's had Butler + Cousins they couldn't push it to 6 or 7 games? Come on, bruh.

Building a team with an all-star core is difficult but it doesn't stop there at all, and I feel you're creating a strawmen argument (or misunderstanding my position) by insinuating that it's all I believe. It takes time to build chemistry and other pieces to put together the right talent around that core. You have a 3-all star core and get offed in 6 games - fine, build chemistry, build roleplayers, build a good coaching staff/system. But if you're gonna wave the white flag with one all-star and not even try to acquire more high end talent then you're just paving the way for the Cavs and Warriors to dominate.

Again, you're creating a strawmen argument by suggesting that a 3-all star core is the END. Because it never is, and that's why both GS and CLE are the juggernauts that they are now - we had these cores years ago.

The Cavs only had TWO #1 overall picks in 4 years that was their own. Guess how they got Kyrie? BY TRADING WITH THE CLIPPERS and absorbing Baron Davis's nasty contract.

It doesn't always take a perfect storm and teams can do a LOT better at challenging the Cavs and Warriors. You know that.

SfgiantsJD3
05-23-2017, 02:56 PM
Durant said that?

If so, my respect for him just went up a notch

I think the warriors were practicing at the time and he said he quit paying attention after the half.

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 03:12 PM
That was an example, and while rare, it's still entirely possible if you manage your team well. But if a team is willing to make big moves in the same time frame they can come up with a deal with a trade and use that to entice an all-star to sign before pulling the trigger on that trade.

Maybe, but it's much more difficult than you make it out to be. I guess 28 other GM's are just stupid and not trying right?


I realize late 1sts and 2nd round picks don't have much value but if you offer a high quantity that'll easily entice a team. It's all about timing - I'm not saying a team can offer a bunch of picks to get any guy in the league, but if a particular guy is on his way out the door then a ton of draft picks will almost certainly catch their ear, late 1sts or not.

Again, maybe but mostly not true. ATL offered 4 freaking firsts for PG and INDY said NO knowing he's probably gone soon anyways. Picks, especially late picks (which ATL's would be) are worth hardly anything to team rebuilding. The issue is roster space and the divide between the top 3-5 picks vs the rest of the field. Nobody wants to trade a borderline all NBA player for 4 picks in the 20's. You're not rebuilding a team with that. A team is still a business, so you trade you best players for crappy picks, even if you're getting quantity, nobody's going to come see you team. You hold onto PG and keep the fans in the stands and hope you can somehow re-sign him.


Why do you think Butler could've been acquired at the deadline for so cheap (relative to what he would normally require) and the Bulls were imploding and thinking about rebuilding?

If he was cheap, he would have been traded. CHI asked for 2 of AB, Crowder, Smart, Brown and 2017 BRK pick which ended up #1. How is that cheap? That's 2 big contributors on a #1 seed and a #1 pick. FAR from cheap.


Why do you think Cousins was acquired for a bag of peanuts?

Because Cousins has a laundry list of issues. He made zero difference in NO post trade. He has all the talent in the world, but he has issues. He consistently showed he couldn't lead a team in SAC (I know their org is a dumpster fire), He has a mouth, He's going to command a MAX in the near future, and he plays a position that frankly isn't as important as it once was. The days of a C dominating and winning in the NBA have long since past.


There are times where certain superstars are available for cheaper - that's when you pounce.

Yeah? Name them. Because the ones you named didn't fit this bill outside of Cousins.


The only reason your Celtics aren't bottom of the barrel now is because Ainge found the perfect opportunity to cash in on Garnett and Pierce and then Rondo - how many teams are doing that right now? Think about that right now. 28 other teams - how many are cashing in on their soon-to-be free agents?

I think you meant Allan not Pierce, he was already on the roster. Rondo was a late round draft pick, I'd hardly call it "cashing in on him". Rondo has talent but his best years were with 3 All Stars by his side. Most players will look better when the vast majority of the pressure to win and do special things are not on them. Yes, Ainge got lucky with the Garnett trade (Allen trade was fair value IMO) but you can't possibly expect trades like that to go down regularly.


The Raptors decided to sit on their hands with Lowry - why didn't they trade him when they should've known they couldn't be nothing more than a treadmill unless they got more all-star talent?

So the Raps trade Lowry and get some late first round picks...Where does that get them? It puts them in no mans land...6-8th seed in the East which is NBA purgatory. Ask the Hawks where that gets you...


The Grizzlies are happy to be a treadmill team and make money reaching the playoffs every year - so they re-signed Conley to a stupid deal. They could've traded him a year earlier and gotten draft picks in return. They could've trade Randolph a year ago and got a 1st round pick (mid-late), instead he's a free agent right now.

They can still trade Randolph (S&T) and get a late first...Hardly doubt dealing Conley and/or Randolph gets them any further in the playoffs with a couple more mid round firsts...


It's tough to get 3 all-stars, where did I say it was easy? But how many teams do you see that are out there making the necessary cap-relief and draft pick-acquiring trades to build that 3 all-star team? How many ridiculous contracts are being signed just to keep money flowing?

It's not easy...If it were every team would be doing it. You make it sound like oh, this guy sucks and is now overpaid, I'll just trade him for a late first round pick and all our problems are solved!. Teams don't want to take on bad contracts, therefor you have to attach real assets to get rid of them. So you lose an asset and take a step back to gain cap space. Then you sign another guy (who's probably also overpaid) and you're right back where you were... There's probably 10 legit Franchise altering players in this league. After that you have about 20 guys who if you grouped 3 together would be a good team but still not toppling GS and CLE.


Come on, man - you can't sit there and act like all these teams are just helpless victims and aren't contributing to their own incompetence in some form or fashion, through stupid signings or extreme passiveness.

They're not helpless victims. But you act like there's 2 good GM's in the league and everyone else is incompetent and not trying. Clearly not the case.


That's the MAJOR problem right there - you and everyone else envisioning some monumental bar that is impossible to reach, yet GS AND CLE have both come close to losing or reached a point where they could've lost to teams that weren't them (GS down 2-1 vs. Memphis, down 3-1 vs. OKC, CLE down 2-1 vs. Chicago, and tied 2-2 vs. Toronto). If Memphis had an additional all-star or OKC, or Chicago or Toronto, then it's very possible either team could've been eliminated in those years. Does Durant join GS if that's the case? What happens with Love, does he get traded?

And this year both those teams swept their way through the playoffs except CLE one blemish the other night. THAT IS A MONUMENTAL GAP


Until a team is willing to go all in and try to put together an all-star laden squad to challenge them, it'll only get worse. Cleveland is up 2-1 on Boston right now because of a **** ton of effort on Boston's part, you mean to tell me if the C's had Butler + Cousins they couldn't push it to 6 or 7 games? Come on, bruh.

Sure they definitely could push it to 6 or 7... But ultimately they lose. So why cash in ALL YOUR ASSETS to win what? 2 more playoff games... Listen to yourself. To get Butler and Cousins we're easily going to lose #1 (Fultz), Brown, Crowder, AB and some other minor pieces. So now we traded our future to get Butler and Cousins. We have a 5 year window that MAYBE we can start getting by CLE in year 4 and 5...Why would we want to do that?


Building a team with an all-star core is difficult but it doesn't stop there at all, and I feel you're creating a strawmen argument (or misunderstanding my position) by insinuating that it's all I believe. It takes time to build chemistry and other pieces to put together the right talent around that core. You have a 3-all star core and get offed in 6 games - fine, build chemistry, build roleplayers, build a good coaching staff/system. But if you're gonna wave the white flag with one all-star and not even try to acquire more high end talent then you're just paving the way for the Cavs and Warriors to dominate.

This is exactly what BOS, UTA, WAS, MIL are doing right now....


Again, you're creating a strawmen argument by suggesting that a 3-all star core is the END. Because it never is, and that's why both GS and CLE are the juggernauts that they are now - we had these cores years ago.

GS yes. But Durant put it over the top. Same with CLE. There's 2 top players in the NBA...That's it. KD and LBJ are in a league of their own. To expect other teams to be able to acquire those types of players like GS and CLE did can't happen because those players don't exist. If the league has a legit cap structure and made it impossible to those 2 to join those teams, you'd easily have 6-8 teams that are true contenders.


The Cavs only had TWO #1 overall picks in 4 years that was their own. Guess how they got Kyrie? BY TRADING WITH THE CLIPPERS and absorbing Baron Davis's nasty contract.

Good for them... That works once in a blue moon. Especially to get lucky in the lottery and get the #1 pick. It's not like it was the plan, that's luck. No you're right, the GM said. Well LBJ is now gone. Let's trade for a pick and Baron Davis. We'll get the #1 pick and suck for 4 straight years accumulating top 5 picks each year so when LBJ is ready to return our team will be loaded. This wasn't a plan. They were lucky and fortunate. This can't be replicated.


It doesn't always take a perfect storm and teams can do a LOT better at challenging the Cavs and Warriors. You know that.

It is my belief they will try and have been trying. But again, easier said then done.

Saddletramp
05-23-2017, 05:38 PM
^^^He was referring to getting a King's Ransom for Garnett and Pierce from Brooklyn and then getting some nice pieces from Dallas in the Rondo deal, not acquiring Garnett and Ray Allen.

Vee-Rex
05-23-2017, 05:42 PM
Maybe, but it's much more difficult than you make it out to be. I guess 28 other GM's are just stupid and not trying right?


I've stated that I know it isn't easy, but it's clear that some teams just want to make money. It's a business, afterall. My point is - why don't these organizations receive any blame for the lack of parity? Do they not deserve some of the blame too?



Again, maybe but mostly not true. ATL offered 4 freaking firsts for PG and INDY said NO knowing he's probably gone soon anyways. Picks, especially late picks (which ATL's would be) are worth hardly anything to team rebuilding. The issue is roster space and the divide between the top 3-5 picks vs the rest of the field. Nobody wants to trade a borderline all NBA player for 4 picks in the 20's. You're not rebuilding a team with that. A team is still a business, so you trade you best players for crappy picks, even if you're getting quantity, nobody's going to come see you team. You hold onto PG and keep the fans in the stands and hope you can somehow re-sign him.


Atlanta made a ballsy offer - which is rare. How many times do we hear of such kind of offers? Hardly ever. Indy is playing their own leverage for sure, so they're less likely to jump on an offer like that right now. But if PG13 appears to be leaving to L.A. and the trade deadline rolls around you better bet your balls Indiana should take Atlanta's offer before letting him walk (if they don't get a better offer).

You're saying they should hold onto PG13 for half a season? Seriously? I mean he's as good as gone - it doesn't get any clearer than that. He has been discontent with them all year. You don't just hang onto him and hope - that's not a wise move.

Also, what makes you say that it'll be 4 picks in the 20s? You have no knowledge of that. Thanks to the Stepien rule they'd have to offer 1st round picks years from now - a time when they may very well be bottom of the league (especially if Millsap dips out). That's exactly how these BRK picks became valuable.

The more assets you have, the more flexibility you have, whether that's in trading for star players or simply moving up in the draft. I think you're completely devaluing those 1st round picks.



If he was cheap, he would have been traded. CHI asked for 2 of AB, Crowder, Smart, Brown and 2017 BRK pick which ended up #1. How is that cheap? That's 2 big contributors on a #1 seed and a #1 pick. FAR from cheap.


1. That's cheap relative to the normal asking price. A player like Butler would demand more than that normally.

2. Both AB and Smart will likely be GONE in the next few years. If they're not gonna be apart of the ultra super duper Boston superteam of homegrown talent through drafting 500 years from now, why hold on to them just to let them walk?

So in 2 years when they walk (because they'll likely net big contracts beyond what Boston should pay), how would you feel?

Throw in the #1 pick (which btw wasn't a #1 overall pick at the time, it was a 25% chance to be a #1 pick), and it would've had Butler.

However, fortune came to the Celtics and you guys got the #1 overall, so it's besides the point. All you guys can hope for is that Fultz or whoever else you draft isn't a bust.



Because Cousins has a laundry list of issues. He made zero difference in NO post trade. He has all the talent in the world, but he has issues. He consistently showed he couldn't lead a team in SAC (I know their org is a dumpster fire), He has a mouth, He's going to command a MAX in the near future, and he plays a position that frankly isn't as important as it once was. The days of a C dominating and winning in the NBA have long since past.


I disagree, but until we see what NOLA does with a full offseason and complementary front office moves to surround Counsins/AD with talent, then there's nothing I can say.

But I fully believe NOLA is a better team right now and trending upward. I'd certainly rather be in their situation than a lot of other teams.



Yeah? Name them. Because the ones you named didn't fit this bill outside of Cousins.


Every single star is cheaper when they're on their contract year. Butler was much cheaper last year at the deadline because the Bulls were contemplating a blowup. He's not even a free agent and he's signed for 2 more years - no WAY do you get a player of his talent with just 2 roleplayers and a 1st round pick.

The deadline is money for trading and always has been.



I think you meant Allan not Pierce, he was already on the roster. Rondo was a late round draft pick, I'd hardly call it "cashing in on him". Rondo has talent but his best years were with 3 All Stars by his side. Most players will look better when the vast majority of the pressure to win and do special things are not on them. Yes, Ainge got lucky with the Garnett trade (Allen trade was fair value IMO) but you can't possibly expect trades like that to go down regularly.


I'm talking about when the C's traded Garnett and Pierce to Brooklyn, and then later traded Rondo. Ainge cashed in on them - he realized the Celtics hit their ceiling and wouldn't get over the top, so instead of re-signing dudes and hoping he decided to tear it down. It was a ballsy trade and it obviously paid off.



So the Raps trade Lowry and get some late first round picks...Where does that get them? It puts them in no mans land...6-8th seed in the East which is NBA purgatory. Ask the Hawks where that gets you...


Why are you assuming they'd be late round picks? Again, if they acquire 2 first rounds, Stepien rule means 2018 and 2020. If it's 3 first rounds, 2018, 2020, 2022. Or 2018, 2020, and the right to swap picks in 2021.

Like... this is exactly what Ainge did to Brooklyn. Lowry alone wouldn't net something crazy like that obviously, but if your ceiling is to get swept by LeBron for the next 3 years, then you have two options:

1. Bring Lowry and DeRozan MORE talent (which would justify signing Lowry to a huge deal)
2. Blow it up.

Ainge knew that Garnett and Pierce were not worth it so he blew it up, for draft picks that would were not guaranteed to be high picks since they were so far in the future.



They can still trade Randolph (S&T) and get a late first...Hardly doubt dealing Conley and/or Randolph gets them any further in the playoffs with a couple more mid round firsts...


S&Ts aren't super likely, but again, your assumption is that they would guaranteed to be mid-round firsts. Again, Ainge showed why that's not a guarantee or even likely depending on who you're trading with (Atlanta for example seem to be a team on the cusp of becoming a crap team).



It's not easy...If it were every team would be doing it. You make it sound like oh, this guy sucks and is now overpaid, I'll just trade him for a late first round pick and all our problems are solved!. Teams don't want to take on bad contracts, therefor you have to attach real assets to get rid of them. So you lose an asset and take a step back to gain cap space. Then you sign another guy (who's probably also overpaid) and you're right back where you were... There's probably 10 legit Franchise altering players in this league. After that you have about 20 guys who if you grouped 3 together would be a good team but still not toppling GS and CLE.


Point out where I said it was easy or even implied it. I'm saying that teams could be doing better and the league's parity could be better if teams weren't so content with being middle of the pack and making money.

Obviously that doesn't work for all teams and some are in some tough binds, but there's far more flexibility available to teams than it would appear - and they're simply not cashing in on those opportunities.



They're not helpless victims. But you act like there's 2 good GM's in the league and everyone else is incompetent and not trying. Clearly not the case.


I act like there's only 2 good GMs just as much as you act like they're helpless victims in distress under the mighty weight of the evil empire known as the NBA.



And this year both those teams swept their way through the playoffs except CLE one blemish the other night. THAT IS A MONUMENTAL GAP


GS would not have swept their way to the finals without injuries. If we can't agree on that then we can get nowhere discussing this 'monumental gap'.

Cleveland did not sweep their way to the finals and had a 1st round series that had a 16-point differential through 4 games. Vs. Toronto they almost lost in Toronto both games - with an injured Lowry.

I mean come on, you're acting like GS and CLE are like Olympic teams vs. high school teams.



Sure they definitely could push it to 6 or 7... But ultimately they lose. So why cash in ALL YOUR ASSETS to win what? 2 more playoff games... Listen to yourself. To get Butler and Cousins we're easily going to lose #1 (Fultz), Brown, Crowder, AB and some other minor pieces. So now we traded our future to get Butler and Cousins. We have a 5 year window that MAYBE we can start getting by CLE in year 4 and 5...Why would we want to do that?


No, YOU'RE the one that completely whiffed on my point. Push it to 6 or 7 with a core of Butler/IT/Cousins. Then under the first full year the Celtics would:

1. Build chemistry
2. Stevens have a lot more talent to work his system through
3. Acquire 1 or more of your Channing Frye, your Deron Williams, your Kyle Korver, your JR Smith, your Iman Shumpert,

Get to the ECF in 2018... likely with homecourt, you take LeBron to 6 or 7 games and maybe you WIN. But guess what? Even if you lose, you have:

ANOTHER year to build chemistry. ANOTHER year to let Stevens and the coaching staff formulate top notch plays, ANOTHER year to add even more pieces.

THAT'S how the Cavs are as powerful as they are now. This team is so so so so much more intact from a chemistry standpoint than they were 2 years ago.

ACQUIRE all-star core and build around it. It's a process and you guys that keep screaming, "zomg it's hopeless because we'd lose in 6 or 7 this year!!!!" are completely ignoring (or just ignorant) of the power of building chemistry.



This is exactly what BOS, UTA, WAS, MIL are doing right now....


Interesting you choose teams that appear to be 'up and coming'.

I'm certainly not criticizing MIL right now or even UTA (they're in a bit of a conundrum so it'll be interesting to see where they go from there). WAS needs roster adjustments and a talent infusion IMO.

I've said already that some teams are in situations where they can't just go all in or go full rebuild. I understand that.

What about Toronto? What about Memphis? What about the Clippers? Are you gonna sit here and tell me that they're making wise decisions by resting on their talent and letting them walk in free agency? Or that they're better off signing their guys to big deals and still not being a contender anyway? And I'm only zero-ing in on playoff teams - there's a ton of non-playoff teams that are making non-progressive decisions and a lot of those decisions are business-related to try to keep the fans paying.



GS yes. But Durant put it over the top. Same with CLE. There's 2 top players in the NBA...That's it. KD and LBJ are in a league of their own. To expect other teams to be able to acquire those types of players like GS and CLE did can't happen because those players don't exist. If the league has a legit cap structure and made it impossible to those 2 to join those teams, you'd easily have 6-8 teams that are true contenders.


And I refuse to believe that these players are just unstoppable and can't be beat. I'm not pulling this out of my *** either - but I think it's funny how the Cavs are viewed as vulnerable all year and through the 1st round of the playoffs and now suddenly they're invulnerable are monumentally better than any Eastern team.

The Cavs are only viewed that way when it comes to talking about league parity and how much the playoffs suck because it's a two-team league. It's just narratives tumbling over narratives and the truth is usually in the middle.

I'm certain the Cavs aren't unbeatable especially if faced against a team with equal or near talent. GS would be a tougher obstacle but not unbeatable themselves - we all saw the Kawhi-led Spurs putting a beating on them in Oracle.



Good for them... That works once in a blue moon. Especially to get lucky in the lottery and get the #1 pick. It's not like it was the plan, that's luck. No you're right, the GM said. Well LBJ is now gone. Let's trade for a pick and Baron Davis. We'll get the #1 pick and suck for 4 straight years accumulating top 5 picks each year so when LBJ is ready to return our team will be loaded. This wasn't a plan. They were lucky and fortunate. This can't be replicated.


The Cavs odds of winning the #1 overall pick in 2011 (because of their own pick + the Clippers) was far higher than Boston's odds of winning the #1 overall in 2017. Who was more lucky?

The Cavs sucked because they had a terrible team and that put them in a prime opportunity to get #1 overall picks. They weren't sitting on an all-star reaching the ECF with the #1 seed and a billion draft picks in the next 5 years. They managed to pull off a S&T with LeBron and got a lot of Miami picks because Miami was trying to get their salary cap situation together to pull off their grand offseason.

Regardless, the org still made moves to try to compete without sacrificing our cap. That's why you saw us sign Deng and Bynum because we were trying to reach the playoffs and come within 5'ish games (off the top of my head) of reaching the playoffs in 2014.

Yes, luck played a pretty big factor but the Cavs have been wheeling and dealing (possibly more than any other team in the NBA) for the past 7 years. The end product, these 2017 Cavs, is certainly a product of that.



It is my belief they will try and have been trying. But again, easier said then done.

I mean, all teams are 'trying'. I just recognize that some teams care more about making money. Doesn't mean I can't criticize some teams for being too passive and others for being too ridiculous with their free agent signings.

Kyben36
05-23-2017, 06:23 PM
I have to say myself, this has been the lamest playoffs by far, it seemed like a pre determined outcome, gs was coming out of the west, and lebron and cavs out of the east,

i mean, its really hard to impossible for most teams to just compete with the talent, this nba today seems like a 2 team race with one clearly light years ahead of the other (that being gs for those wondering) cavs may look great vs the east, but the warriors are wiping the floor with the west who has consistently been much better than the east. Its honestly sad to watch as a fan to see the same finals for 3 years in a row, especially when any team cant even push the #1 seeds

Scoots
05-24-2017, 12:36 AM
I think it's kind of amazing that teams are choosing to not compete at a higher rate than I've ever seen before.

GREATNESS ONE
05-24-2017, 02:22 AM
Because LeBron didn't join a team where he could not play and still be the best in the league. He also didn't join the team he just lost to.

Do you understand now?

I see two players at the top of their game frustrated and both left to join forces with other player to try and win an easy championship....

Do you understand now? ;)

Scoots
05-24-2017, 09:06 AM
It seems it's either you are emotional about where a free agent chooses to go and how much they accept or not.

Some people hated the Heatles because free agents chose to play with their friends, some people hate KD because he chose to play with his friend.

What I don't understand is people who are okay with one but not the other and people who attach some emotional investment in free agent decisions.

likemystylez
05-24-2017, 09:11 AM
absolute BS- This whole thread...... and the reporter asking durant if he was concerned about the playoffs so far.

Kevin Durant answered that question perfectly, and the reporter asking him if he saw it as a problem? He was right every player would love to dominate everytime they step on the floor. Doesnt make the player a villain. It isnt durants responsibility to make sure the league is 100% balanced at all times. It literally shouldnt be anywhere on his priority list.

GMs are responsible for building their own competitive teams, blame the failing gms for bad draft picks..... or blame guys like blake griffin for sitting out every single post season and not keeping his body in good enough condition to endure the extra games.

yeah im sure durant has control over all of that too

likemystylez
05-24-2017, 09:24 AM
It seems it's either you are emotional about where a free agent chooses to go and how much they accept or not.

Some people hated the Heatles because free agents chose to play with their friends, some people hate KD because he chose to play with his friend.

What I don't understand is people who are okay with one but not the other and people who attach some emotional investment in free agent decisions.

scoots- the reason is stephen a smith and his rant full of BS immediately following the KD decision last summer. There definitely would still be people who were against kd's decision but stephen a smith going on and completely losing control of himself is what I think is to blame for all of this. (He really showed his hatred towards the warriors btw LOL)

SAS basically just made up a bunch of rules that he seemed to be pulling out of his *** during this out of control rant. examples of these rules -

1) a player cant leave for a team he was down 3-1 to in the playoffs,

2) player cant go to a 73 win team (BTW a week earlier sas said the 73 wins didnt mean anything cuz they didnt win the ring- so im not sure why he thinks it means something when kd goes there)

3) Player cant leave a team when he has a chance to compete for a ring where he is

4) top 3 player cant leave a team to join a unanimous mvp

5) a player cant leave his brother russel westbrook (BTW at the time durant signed with the warriors- nobody
including durant had any idea whether westbrook would resign or not with the thunder in summer of 17)


ANyways- this is why everyone thinks the lebron going back and forth every few yrs to different superteams isnt that bad. KD has stayed on one team more than lebron likely ever will in his career. Stephen A Smith basically pigeon holed durants move by making up BS rules. I dont see why he let it bother him so much?

ManRam
05-24-2017, 09:33 AM
Oops

Scoots
05-24-2017, 09:36 AM
SAS is a LeBron suck up because he's used inside access to LeBron to advance his career.

hugepatsfan
05-24-2017, 10:42 AM
I've stated that I know it isn't easy, but it's clear that some teams just want to make money. It's a business, afterall. My point is - why don't these organizations receive any blame for the lack of parity? Do they not deserve some of the blame too?



Atlanta made a ballsy offer - which is rare. How many times do we hear of such kind of offers? Hardly ever. Indy is playing their own leverage for sure, so they're less likely to jump on an offer like that right now. But if PG13 appears to be leaving to L.A. and the trade deadline rolls around you better bet your balls Indiana should take Atlanta's offer before letting him walk (if they don't get a better offer).

You're saying they should hold onto PG13 for half a season? Seriously? I mean he's as good as gone - it doesn't get any clearer than that. He has been discontent with them all year. You don't just hang onto him and hope - that's not a wise move.

Also, what makes you say that it'll be 4 picks in the 20s? You have no knowledge of that. Thanks to the Stepien rule they'd have to offer 1st round picks years from now - a time when they may very well be bottom of the league (especially if Millsap dips out). That's exactly how these BRK picks became valuable.

The more assets you have, the more flexibility you have, whether that's in trading for star players or simply moving up in the draft. I think you're completely devaluing those 1st round picks.



1. That's cheap relative to the normal asking price. A player like Butler would demand more than that normally.

2. Both AB and Smart will likely be GONE in the next few years. If they're not gonna be apart of the ultra super duper Boston superteam of homegrown talent through drafting 500 years from now, why hold on to them just to let them walk?

So in 2 years when they walk (because they'll likely net big contracts beyond what Boston should pay), how would you feel?

Throw in the #1 pick (which btw wasn't a #1 overall pick at the time, it was a 25% chance to be a #1 pick), and it would've had Butler.

However, fortune came to the Celtics and you guys got the #1 overall, so it's besides the point. All you guys can hope for is that Fultz or whoever else you draft isn't a bust.



I disagree, but until we see what NOLA does with a full offseason and complementary front office moves to surround Counsins/AD with talent, then there's nothing I can say.

But I fully believe NOLA is a better team right now and trending upward. I'd certainly rather be in their situation than a lot of other teams.



Every single star is cheaper when they're on their contract year. Butler was much cheaper last year at the deadline because the Bulls were contemplating a blowup. He's not even a free agent and he's signed for 2 more years - no WAY do you get a player of his talent with just 2 roleplayers and a 1st round pick.

The deadline is money for trading and always has been.



I'm talking about when the C's traded Garnett and Pierce to Brooklyn, and then later traded Rondo. Ainge cashed in on them - he realized the Celtics hit their ceiling and wouldn't get over the top, so instead of re-signing dudes and hoping he decided to tear it down. It was a ballsy trade and it obviously paid off.



Why are you assuming they'd be late round picks? Again, if they acquire 2 first rounds, Stepien rule means 2018 and 2020. If it's 3 first rounds, 2018, 2020, 2022. Or 2018, 2020, and the right to swap picks in 2021.

Like... this is exactly what Ainge did to Brooklyn. Lowry alone wouldn't net something crazy like that obviously, but if your ceiling is to get swept by LeBron for the next 3 years, then you have two options:

1. Bring Lowry and DeRozan MORE talent (which would justify signing Lowry to a huge deal)
2. Blow it up.

Ainge knew that Garnett and Pierce were not worth it so he blew it up, for draft picks that would were not guaranteed to be high picks since they were so far in the future.



S&Ts aren't super likely, but again, your assumption is that they would guaranteed to be mid-round firsts. Again, Ainge showed why that's not a guarantee or even likely depending on who you're trading with (Atlanta for example seem to be a team on the cusp of becoming a crap team).



Point out where I said it was easy or even implied it. I'm saying that teams could be doing better and the league's parity could be better if teams weren't so content with being middle of the pack and making money.

Obviously that doesn't work for all teams and some are in some tough binds, but there's far more flexibility available to teams than it would appear - and they're simply not cashing in on those opportunities.



I act like there's only 2 good GMs just as much as you act like they're helpless victims in distress under the mighty weight of the evil empire known as the NBA.



GS would not have swept their way to the finals without injuries. If we can't agree on that then we can get nowhere discussing this 'monumental gap'.

Cleveland did not sweep their way to the finals and had a 1st round series that had a 16-point differential through 4 games. Vs. Toronto they almost lost in Toronto both games - with an injured Lowry.

I mean come on, you're acting like GS and CLE are like Olympic teams vs. high school teams.



No, YOU'RE the one that completely whiffed on my point. Push it to 6 or 7 with a core of Butler/IT/Cousins. Then under the first full year the Celtics would:

1. Build chemistry
2. Stevens have a lot more talent to work his system through
3. Acquire 1 or more of your Channing Frye, your Deron Williams, your Kyle Korver, your JR Smith, your Iman Shumpert,

Get to the ECF in 2018... likely with homecourt, you take LeBron to 6 or 7 games and maybe you WIN. But guess what? Even if you lose, you have:

ANOTHER year to build chemistry. ANOTHER year to let Stevens and the coaching staff formulate top notch plays, ANOTHER year to add even more pieces.

THAT'S how the Cavs are as powerful as they are now. This team is so so so so much more intact from a chemistry standpoint than they were 2 years ago.

ACQUIRE all-star core and build around it. It's a process and you guys that keep screaming, "zomg it's hopeless because we'd lose in 6 or 7 this year!!!!" are completely ignoring (or just ignorant) of the power of building chemistry.



Interesting you choose teams that appear to be 'up and coming'.

I'm certainly not criticizing MIL right now or even UTA (they're in a bit of a conundrum so it'll be interesting to see where they go from there). WAS needs roster adjustments and a talent infusion IMO.

I've said already that some teams are in situations where they can't just go all in or go full rebuild. I understand that.

What about Toronto? What about Memphis? What about the Clippers? Are you gonna sit here and tell me that they're making wise decisions by resting on their talent and letting them walk in free agency? Or that they're better off signing their guys to big deals and still not being a contender anyway? And I'm only zero-ing in on playoff teams - there's a ton of non-playoff teams that are making non-progressive decisions and a lot of those decisions are business-related to try to keep the fans paying.



And I refuse to believe that these players are just unstoppable and can't be beat. I'm not pulling this out of my *** either - but I think it's funny how the Cavs are viewed as vulnerable all year and through the 1st round of the playoffs and now suddenly they're invulnerable are monumentally better than any Eastern team.

The Cavs are only viewed that way when it comes to talking about league parity and how much the playoffs suck because it's a two-team league. It's just narratives tumbling over narratives and the truth is usually in the middle.

I'm certain the Cavs aren't unbeatable especially if faced against a team with equal or near talent. GS would be a tougher obstacle but not unbeatable themselves - we all saw the Kawhi-led Spurs putting a beating on them in Oracle.



The Cavs odds of winning the #1 overall pick in 2011 (because of their own pick + the Clippers) was far higher than Boston's odds of winning the #1 overall in 2017. Who was more lucky?

The Cavs sucked because they had a terrible team and that put them in a prime opportunity to get #1 overall picks. They weren't sitting on an all-star reaching the ECF with the #1 seed and a billion draft picks in the next 5 years. They managed to pull off a S&T with LeBron and got a lot of Miami picks because Miami was trying to get their salary cap situation together to pull off their grand offseason.

Regardless, the org still made moves to try to compete without sacrificing our cap. That's why you saw us sign Deng and Bynum because we were trying to reach the playoffs and come within 5'ish games (off the top of my head) of reaching the playoffs in 2014.

Yes, luck played a pretty big factor but the Cavs have been wheeling and dealing (possibly more than any other team in the NBA) for the past 7 years. The end product, these 2017 Cavs, is certainly a product of that.



I mean, all teams are 'trying'. I just recognize that some teams care more about making money. Doesn't mean I can't criticize some teams for being too passive and others for being too ridiculous with their free agent signings.

You're Butler/Cousins combo is an interesting idea. Not sure it could have happened but it's possible. At the time of the deadline I think the Nets were like 4th worst in the NBA - not absolute worse. They seemed to be playing better this year until Lin went down. I don't think their 2018 pick was centerpiece for a star valuable, even at a reduced rate. But it is possible.

SAC dealt Cousines for Hield and a protected top 3 protected first. Jaylen Brown and the 2018 pick I guess could be somewhat comparable. A 2017 pick is more valuable in a vacuum than 2018 but that pick was protected. Rumor has it SAC liked Hield - probably more than Brown, who hadn't shown the development he would go on to show at the time of the deadline. I feel like BOS might have had to include Smart in this, but let's say they didn't for argument.

My understanding of the Butler talks was that CHI wanted Smart and both of Crowder/2017 BRK pick. Ainge balked at both Crowder/BRK pick. Let's say he gave in. So in the end, it was Crowder/Smart/Brown/2017 BRK pick/2018 BRK pick along with Zeller/Amir as salary fillers for Butler/Cousins.

IT/Rozier
Bradley
Butler/Green
Horford/Jerebko
Cousins

That would be the 8 man rotation for the playoffs. No depth whatsoever for the year which would probably cost them.

Now, looking ahead to this offseason, the Celtics would actually have about $14M of cap space to add some depth. And without doing the exact calculations, it's probably more like $10M because BOS would have a bunch of cap holds. Unfortunately, in today's market, that gets you about one good player. They would be able to bring over draft-n-stash guys Zizic and Yabusele for some depth in the front court (assuming they are actually good). They'd have a room exception next year and long-term they have MLEs year after year to add to the core. However, IT/Bradley/Cousins will all be FAs after next season so there would be some heavy luxury tax incoming. Like I'm talking levels way beyond what even your Cavs are playing. That team would be right at the cap assuming they did get a FA player with their cap space. IT makes $6M so giving him a max or even a near max is adding at least another $20M. Cousins would be at $18M next year so a max adds another $12M or so. Bradley makes $8M and in today's market he gets at least $20M so another $12M. You're talking about a team that would then go to like $40M over the cap. Oh... and then Butler is a FA due for a huge raise the next year. For comparison, your Cavs are about $20M over right now and the highest paid team ever. So not sure that keeping that team is really financially feasible even if the owner does want to spend.

Nevertheless, that's a very interesting squad. The flip side though is that Ainge now might be able to sign an all star (Hayward), draft a potential all star, and then use other pieces to attempt a package for another star

Crowder
Bradley
2018 BRK pick
2019 LAC pick
2019 MEM pick

Could that land a Butler/George type after signing Hayward? Maybe. That would get you the same number of stars you wanted them to get except now instead of piecing together a bench they have potential young studs like Brown/Fultz (and Smart to a lesser degree potential wise). Some of the same financial concerns do exist though.

Overall though, I do think that Butler/Cousins scenario is super interesting. I do like the long-range potential better holding off but that scenario you outlined very well could have worked out.

krazylegz
05-24-2017, 11:59 AM
durant is a turd

Saddletramp
05-24-2017, 12:57 PM
It seems it's either you are emotional about where a free agent chooses to go and how much they accept or not.

Some people hated the Heatles because free agents chose to play with their friends, some people hate KD because he chose to play with his friend.

What I don't understand is people who are okay with one but not the other and people who attach some emotional investment in free agent decisions.

We've been through this countless times. Just can't re-hash it again or I'll go crazy.

Saddletramp
05-24-2017, 01:18 PM
scoots- the reason is stephen a smith and his rant full of BS immediately following the KD decision last summer. There definitely would still be people who were against kd's decision but stephen a smith going on and completely losing control of himself is what I think is to blame for all of this. (He really showed his hatred towards the warriors btw LOL)

SAS basically just made up a bunch of rules that he seemed to be pulling out of his *** during this out of control rant. examples of these rules -

1) a player cant leave for a team he was down 3-1 to in the playoffs,

2) player cant go to a 73 win team (BTW a week earlier sas said the 73 wins didnt mean anything cuz they didnt win the ring- so im not sure why he thinks it means something when kd goes there)

3) Player cant leave a team when he has a chance to compete for a ring where he is

4) top 3 player cant leave a team to join a unanimous mvp

5) a player cant leave his brother russel westbrook (BTW at the time durant signed with the warriors- nobody
including durant had any idea whether westbrook would resign or not with the thunder in summer of 17)


ANyways- this is why everyone thinks the lebron going back and forth every few yrs to different superteams isnt that bad. KD has stayed on one team more than lebron likely ever will in his career. Stephen A Smith basically pigeon holed durants move by making up BS rules. I dont see why he let it bother him so much?

Some people can actually think for themselves and not follow sports columnist dopes. My reaction to KD's move had absolutely nothing to do with SAS or anyone else.

likemystylez
05-24-2017, 01:47 PM
Some people can actually think for themselves and not follow sports columnist dopes. My reaction to KD's move had absolutely nothing to do with SAS or anyone else.

Didn't mean to offend you, but before Stephen a smith mentioned his list of rules of when its acceptable to go where during FREE agency.... I hadn't heard anybody else saying anything like that. I constantly hear people complaining that kd left his team for the team that beat him in the playoffs- who cares. That's not like a rule just cuz Stephen a smith cried about it.


Nobody made a big deal when ray allen left the Celtics to joint the heat for example.

Im sure there were people who were not ok with it when kd left. I think Stephen A smiths rant is what makes people think what LeBron did was 100% fine and what KD did was so horrible.... cuz of the rules sas pulled out of his ***

Saddletramp
05-24-2017, 02:31 PM
Didn't mean to offend you, but before Stephen a smith mentioned his list of rules of when its acceptable to go where during FREE agency.... I hadn't heard anybody else saying anything like that. I constantly hear people complaining that kd left his team for the team that beat him in the playoffs- who cares. That's not like a rule just cuz Stephen a smith cried about it.


Nobody made a big deal when ray allen left the Celtics to joint the heat for example.

Im sure there were people who were not ok with it when kd left. I think Stephen A smiths rant is what makes people think what LeBron did was 100% fine and what KD did was so horrible.... cuz of the rules sas pulled out of his ***

Again, the reason KD takes a hit is because he's a top player in the league (former MVP and arguably the second best player in the league only to Lebron since he's been in the league) and he joined one of the already made all time greats while leaving a monster team (not to mention he choked versus that team just a month or so prior to signing with them). Ray Allen was never in that level (especially at that age) and Lebron left scrubs for a newly formed team (no telling how they gel-look at their first few months). I can't think of anyone ever doing what KD did. He threw in the towel on his legacy by joining that team* (or if he went to Cle), Nothing that SAS said can change that, for or against.


Pfffft.....list of rules. What the heck?



*And he seems to be ok with it so good for him (if he doesn't mind being seen as a puss by a rather large fraction of fans, then I guess he's ok with being just another piece). But he's just another cog in the machine, not THE cog. This also devalues Steph a bit, just like it could've devalued Lebron a bit if KD joined Cle. Difference there is, Lebron has personally excelled even in the shittiest of situations, Steph hasn't.

Vee-Rex
05-24-2017, 02:39 PM
You're Butler/Cousins combo is an interesting idea. Not sure it could have happened but it's possible. At the time of the deadline I think the Nets were like 4th worst in the NBA - not absolute worse. They seemed to be playing better this year until Lin went down. I don't think their 2018 pick was centerpiece for a star valuable, even at a reduced rate. But it is possible.

SAC dealt Cousines for Hield and a protected top 3 protected first. Jaylen Brown and the 2018 pick I guess could be somewhat comparable. A 2017 pick is more valuable in a vacuum than 2018 but that pick was protected. Rumor has it SAC liked Hield - probably more than Brown, who hadn't shown the development he would go on to show at the time of the deadline. I feel like BOS might have had to include Smart in this, but let's say they didn't for argument.

My understanding of the Butler talks was that CHI wanted Smart and both of Crowder/2017 BRK pick. Ainge balked at both Crowder/BRK pick. Let's say he gave in. So in the end, it was Crowder/Smart/Brown/2017 BRK pick/2018 BRK pick along with Zeller/Amir as salary fillers for Butler/Cousins.

IT/Rozier
Bradley
Butler/Green
Horford/Jerebko
Cousins

That would be the 8 man rotation for the playoffs. No depth whatsoever for the year which would probably cost them.

Now, looking ahead to this offseason, the Celtics would actually have about $14M of cap space to add some depth. And without doing the exact calculations, it's probably more like $10M because BOS would have a bunch of cap holds. Unfortunately, in today's market, that gets you about one good player. They would be able to bring over draft-n-stash guys Zizic and Yabusele for some depth in the front court (assuming they are actually good). They'd have a room exception next year and long-term they have MLEs year after year to add to the core. However, IT/Bradley/Cousins will all be FAs after next season so there would be some heavy luxury tax incoming. Like I'm talking levels way beyond what even your Cavs are playing. That team would be right at the cap assuming they did get a FA player with their cap space. IT makes $6M so giving him a max or even a near max is adding at least another $20M. Cousins would be at $18M next year so a max adds another $12M or so. Bradley makes $8M and in today's market he gets at least $20M so another $12M. You're talking about a team that would then go to like $40M over the cap. Oh... and then Butler is a FA due for a huge raise the next year. For comparison, your Cavs are about $20M over right now and the highest paid team ever. So not sure that keeping that team is really financially feasible even if the owner does want to spend.

Nevertheless, that's a very interesting squad. The flip side though is that Ainge now might be able to sign an all star (Hayward), draft a potential all star, and then use other pieces to attempt a package for another star

Crowder
Bradley
2018 BRK pick
2019 LAC pick
2019 MEM pick

Could that land a Butler/George type after signing Hayward? Maybe. That would get you the same number of stars you wanted them to get except now instead of piecing together a bench they have potential young studs like Brown/Fultz (and Smart to a lesser degree potential wise). Some of the same financial concerns do exist though.

Overall though, I do think that Butler/Cousins scenario is super interesting. I do like the long-range potential better holding off but that scenario you outlined very well could have worked out.

The C's are so unique in that they have a crap ton of possibilities at this point. The Butler/Cousins scenario sounds good, but it's definitely a risk, and perhaps that risk isn't worth it to them since they have so many possibilities and a bright future - unlike some other teams. The luxury tax as you mentioned would definitely be crazy too if they had to max out a IT/Butler/Cousins trio.

I'm definitely coming around to drafting Fultz and going all in on signing Hayward, I just hope he does join as he would be a great fit. He'd look so good in green, and then the assets would still be there to swing for another player. Snagging that #1 overall pick changes it a bit. I'd certainly look to move Smart if possible since he'll be restricted in a couple years and will likely get a nice contract.

How do you feel about IT? Max or trade him? I suppose it would depend on how much potential Fultz shows as well as his fit next to IT. Problem is a half a season worth of playing before the deadline probably wouldn't be enough time to tell how they would work together, and you definitely don't wanna let IT walk in the offseason if you're not gonna pay him the money he'll want.

tbbyolumbatobby
05-24-2017, 04:51 PM
KD should not be to blame for this because Durant, and the Golden State Warriors had made a lot of power to get a perfect, sparkling, clean sweep against the San Antonio Spurs, and I think they will be beaten in four games by the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

Vee-Rex
05-24-2017, 04:57 PM
KD should not be to blame for this because Durant, and the Golden State Warriors had made a lot of power to get a perfect, sparkling, clean sweep against the San Antonio Spurs, and I think they will be beaten in four games by the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

Well said.

Oakmont_4
05-24-2017, 05:21 PM
The C's are so unique in that they have a crap ton of possibilities at this point. The Butler/Cousins scenario sounds good, but it's definitely a risk, and perhaps that risk isn't worth it to them since they have so many possibilities and a bright future - unlike some other teams. The luxury tax as you mentioned would definitely be crazy too if they had to max out a IT/Butler/Cousins trio.

I'm definitely coming around to drafting Fultz and going all in on signing Hayward, I just hope he does join as he would be a great fit. He'd look so good in green, and then the assets would still be there to swing for another player. Snagging that #1 overall pick changes it a bit. I'd certainly look to move Smart if possible since he'll be restricted in a couple years and will likely get a nice contract.

How do you feel about IT? Max or trade him? I suppose it would depend on how much potential Fultz shows as well as his fit next to IT. Problem is a half a season worth of playing before the deadline probably wouldn't be enough time to tell how they would work together, and you definitely don't wanna let IT walk in the offseason if you're not gonna pay him the money he'll want.

I think 2 of Bradley/IT/Smart have to go (assuming Heyward signs and we draft Fultz). My ideal scenario would be to deal IT and Smart and keep Bradley (at around $20-25M). If Bradley is hard pressed for a MAX, then I'm dealing him for sure. Smart won't get a max and is in line for about $15M per which is reasonable, but he's not the offensive threat Bradley is and with IT gone, Bradley is the better fit.

I'm ok with any of them being traded, it's completely situational. If we're over the cap from signing Heyward and Fultz is toe, I'm even ok with MAXing out IT (only 4 years not 5) because we're not going to be able to get under the cap to replace him if he walks anyways. So in that sense it works. But if we strike out on Heyward, I'm not tying up all our cap space to MAX out IT. Trade him or let him walk at that point.

Ideally we stay the course. Sign Heyward. Draft Fultz.

Thomas/Fultz/Rozier
Bradley/Smart
Heyward/Brown
Crowder
Horford/Zizic

We'll see how they play the first half of the season. If Fultz is the real deal and start earning more playing time and a starting role. I try and package IT/Bradley/18 BRK pick at the trade deadline for Jimmy Butler, I think that's a pretty solid offer. I'd be willing to throw in additional firsts as well to get the deal done. That trade would solve the IT/Smart/Bradley conundrum. It also solidifies the roster for a deep playoff run at CLE.

Fultz/Rozier
Butler/Smart
Heyward/Brown
Crowder
Horford/Zizic

I think that 9 man rotation could potentially topple CLE in the ECF next year. If not...We have our base going forward.

I'd re-sign Smart at this point for ~$15M per. Everyone else is under contract for the 2019 season. We have exception to use to sign another depth piece and try to get some ring chasing vets to fill the holes.

MygirlhatesCod
05-24-2017, 05:55 PM
the blame rest's squarely on all the rest of the GM's for not putting together a better roster. its horrible draft picks and crippling contracts that are the blame. just look at Brooklyn. boston is going to be set for awhile with that gift. Portland made sure money was an issue by giving way to much to average players. the knicks are just sad. Sacramento is trying to be like the Knicks. Orlando is just plain confusing. examples are all around. pointing to one player is completely obtuse.

MygirlhatesCod
05-24-2017, 06:07 PM
I think 2 of Bradley/IT/Smart have to go (assuming Heyward signs and we draft Fultz). My ideal scenario would be to deal IT and Smart and keep Bradley (at around $20-25M). If Bradley is hard pressed for a MAX, then I'm dealing him for sure. Smart won't get a max and is in line for about $15M per which is reasonable, but he's not the offensive threat Bradley is and with IT gone, Bradley is the better fit.

I'm ok with any of them being traded, it's completely situational. If we're over the cap from signing Heyward and Fultz is toe, I'm even ok with MAXing out IT (only 4 years not 5) because we're not going to be able to get under the cap to replace him if he walks anyways. So in that sense it works. But if we strike out on Heyward, I'm not tying up all our cap space to MAX out IT. Trade him or let him walk at that point.

Ideally we stay the course. Sign Heyward. Draft Fultz.

Thomas/Fultz/Rozier
Bradley/Smart
Heyward/Brown
Crowder
Horford/Zizic

We'll see how they play the first half of the season. If Fultz is the real deal and start earning more playing time and a starting role. I try and package IT/Bradley/18 BRK pick at the trade deadline for Jimmy Butler, I think that's a pretty solid offer. I'd be willing to throw in additional firsts as well to get the deal done. That trade would solve the IT/Smart/Bradley conundrum. It also solidifies the roster for a deep playoff run at CLE.

Fultz/Rozier
Butler/Smart
Heyward/Brown
Crowder
Horford/Zizic

I think that 9 man rotation could potentially topple CLE in the ECF next year. If not...We have our base going forward.

I'd re-sign Smart at this point for ~$15M per. Everyone else is under contract for the 2019 season. We have exception to use to sign another depth piece and try to get some ring chasing vets to fill the holes.

im very intrigued with a Klay for Bradley+pick

Oakmont_4
05-24-2017, 06:24 PM
im very intrigued with a Klay for Bradley+pick

As long as it's not the BRK pick (s)...Ainge does that trade immediately.

likemystylez
05-24-2017, 10:39 PM
As long as it's not the BRK pick (s)...Ainge does that trade immediately.

warriors arent doing it if it isnt a top 5 pick in this years draft, lol and all they have is like the 37th and 54th. that aint gonna do it.

if warriors win the championship- i dont think they move any core players

LOb0
05-25-2017, 01:33 AM
As long as it's not the BRK pick (s)...Ainge does that trade immediately.

If it was next years pick, he does that in a heart beat.

Oakmont_4
05-25-2017, 06:32 AM
If it was next years pick, he does that in a heart beat.

Maybe so. I think he tries to push the LAC and MEM picks on it first. If it's the 2018 BRK pick I guess I would do it. Definitely not trading #1 and Bradley though.

mrblisterdundee
05-25-2017, 11:36 AM
He'll always have that "candy ***" asterisk next to this championship if he wins.

MygirlhatesCod
05-25-2017, 11:55 AM
Maybe so. I think he tries to push the LAC and MEM picks on it first. If it's the 2018 BRK pick I guess I would do it. Definitely not trading #1 and Bradley though.

I would say after next season if that pick is top 5 with Bradley.

Oakmont_4
05-25-2017, 12:08 PM
I would say after next season if that pick is top 5 with Bradley.

Bradley will be a free agent by then so that wouldn't work so well

mightybosstone
05-25-2017, 12:19 PM
Simply put, no. Durant maybe deserves some criticism for jumping ship from the Thunder to the Warriors, but that really has no bearing on the quality of basketball other teams are playing. Opposing teams in the West have had 12 chances to win a game against the Warriors and have failed miserably to do so. And, the last time I checked, Durant has never played for an Eastern Conference team, so he has literally zero to do with the lack of competitive basketball being played against the Cavaliers this postseason.

MygirlhatesCod
05-25-2017, 01:01 PM
Bradley will be a free agent by then so that wouldn't work so well

you right. since that's the case then maybe its not so intriguing.

lol, please
05-26-2017, 12:33 AM
Again, the reason KD takes a hit is because he's a top player in the league (former MVP and arguably the second best player in the league only to Lebron since he's been in the league) and he joined one of the already made all time greats while leaving a monster team.

Couldn't even get past this point lol. Did you really just call the Thunder w/ Durant a "monster" team?

:laugh2:

goingfor28
05-26-2017, 05:30 AM
Couldn't even get past this point lol. Did you really just call the Thunder w/ Durant a "monster" team?

:laugh2:
Went up 3-1 on your 73 win Dubs last year, then KD **** the bed in games 5-7.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Saddletramp
05-26-2017, 05:32 AM
Couldn't even get past this point lol. Did you really just call the Thunder w/ Durant a "monster" team?

:laugh2:

Yes. I'd explain, but, like most things, it'd go over your head and be a colossal waste of my time.

Instead of commenting, discussing, or arguing anything I said, you pick one fraction of one sentence and disagree with it and leave the rest alone. It's almost comical how


Oh, it's lol, snitches I'm talking to. Have fun trollin', chucko.

Saddletramp
05-26-2017, 05:37 AM
Also, everytime I see that picture of Paul Allen looking befuddled on Mygirlhatescod's sig, I'm reminded of Joe Lacomb giving the exact same look at the end of the Finals. It puts a smile on my face. It's a healthy juxtaposition to most of your posts.

likemystylez
05-26-2017, 09:11 AM
Went up 3-1 on your 73 win Dubs last year, then KD **** the bed in games 5-7.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I never understand why thunder fans sit there and blame kd for the losses - then they are mad they lost him. if he was the reason for all the thunders failures- then they shoulda gone further in the playoffs this year right?


btw- westbrook had bad games too at the end and y'all seem to love him??? i never see westbrook getting any blame.

nastynice
05-26-2017, 01:03 PM
Because LeBron didn't join a team where he could not play and still be the best in the league. He also didn't join the team he just lost to.

Do you understand now?

Umm, Bosh and Wade say hi. Or did we all think they were gonna win eight rings cuz they're scrubs?

there's also other differences, for example Lebron's name starts with an L, while KDs starts with K.

KD likes seafood, lebron likes Italian.

So many other differences too, but the haters will never understand

nastynice
05-26-2017, 01:05 PM
Also, everytime I see that picture of Paul Allen looking befuddled on Mygirlhatescod's sig, I'm reminded of Joe Lacomb giving the exact same look at the end of the Finals. It puts a smile on my face. It's a healthy juxtaposition to most of your posts.

lol, whatever keeps ur blood pressure down, bro :cheers:

Hawkeye15
05-26-2017, 02:20 PM
Couldn't even get past this point lol. Did you really just call the Thunder w/ Durant a "monster" team?

:laugh2:

well, they had to ship away James Harden because they were so amazing at drafting, and he and the guy Durant left behind are the 2 options for MVP....so....

Outside that, yes, Durant had the help to win a ring. He just cratered in some of the biggest games of his career (but also played well in others). Them's the breaks.

But he doesn't need to worry now. He could go out and shoot 0-15, take a dump at center court during a timeout, and his team would still win by double digits. No worries anymore!

nastynice
05-26-2017, 03:03 PM
Why? You haven't noticed that he's constantly trying to play the bitter little red headed step child?

"KD's not nice."

"I'm tired of being 2nd. Drafted 2nd. 2nd in mvp voting. 2nd to LeBron."

He's always been a beta that lashes out on media, reporters, or fans.

I guess I've always noticed that he's a pompous ***hole. He completes the Warriors in that way.

Respect went up cuz the IDGAF went up

Def all *** holes, haha, it's perfect that way. It gives you something to lash out at

You're welcome :)

Kyben36
05-26-2017, 03:06 PM
Cant beleive what durrant came out and said, **** that guy,

its not his fault, you are one of the best players in the nba and you join the best team in the nba. How can you blame the bad teams for that. I hope he tears his acl and ends his career, guy sounds like an ******* and a fool.

When all the best players leave their teams to join up and play together, that the reason you lack parity you moron.

How about this to solve this problem, each team can only sign two max contracts, all other players must make less than 1/2 of what a max contract would be worth, that way, a team with 3 bonafied stars cant sign a 4th.

**** you durrant, you and lebron have ruined the nba for 30 out of 32 teams in the nba. Congrats playing the same team every year,

lol, please
05-26-2017, 03:17 PM
Yes. I'd explain, but, like most things, it'd go over your head and be a colossal waste of my time.

Instead of commenting, discussing, or arguing anything I said, you pick one fraction of one sentence and disagree with it and leave the rest alone. It's almost comical how


Oh, it's lol, snitches I'm talking to. Have fun trollin', chucko.

Maybe because in order for you to make any valid point, you would actually have to address this (ridiculous) claim. Why go on through the remainder of your post when everything after the fact is based off of the assumption that that Thunder team....is actually a "monster" team?

lol, please
05-26-2017, 03:20 PM
well, they had to ship away James Harden because they were so amazing at drafting, and he and the guy Durant left behind are the 2 options for MVP....so....


James Harden was on the Thunder last year?

:confused:

keep up dude, lol.

lol, please
05-26-2017, 03:21 PM
Umm, Bosh and Wade say hi. Or did we all think they were gonna win eight rings cuz they're scrubs?

there's also other differences, for example Lebron's name starts with an L, while KDs starts with K.

KD likes seafood, lebron likes Italian.

So many other differences too, but the haters will never understand

Hold on, you thought Wades' Heat (It was always his team) was going to win 8 rings?


:laugh:

Just wow.

Hawkeye15
05-26-2017, 03:23 PM
James Harden was on the Thunder last year?

:confused:

keep up dude, lol.

it's the Durant/Thunder tenure I am speaking of. They had the envy of the league front office for a while. It wasn't enough for Durant to have a GM that drafted amazing.

Htownballa1622
05-26-2017, 05:37 PM
Respect went up cuz the IDGAF went up

Def all *** holes, haha, it's perfect that way. It gives you something to lash out at

You're welcome :)

But that's what I'm saying. He didn't change. He's always been the same insecure d bag.

Doesn't mean he's not a phenomenal basketball player.

lol, please
05-28-2017, 12:48 PM
it's the Durant/Thunder tenure I am speaking of. They had the envy of the league front office for a while. It wasn't enough for Durant to have a GM that drafted amazing.

It wasn't enough for Durant?

What does that even mean?

so they built a team that could contend, and they contended for a few years but couldn't win it all. then Durant leaves in FA to a better team to achieve his goal. What exactly is wrong here?

they had plenty of time to try to figure it out and they simply fell short. I don't see why he deserves any kind of backlash.

One of the two glaring differences that so many refuse to see between this and the Lebron decision is that Durant actually hung around for a few good runs, then left in FA. Lebron never gave the team that drafted him that chance. So again, what is wrong with Durant coming to the Warriors?

Jamiecballer
05-28-2017, 06:19 PM
Hehe ... analogies always suck ... but "The person in your example didn't CHOOSE to get thrown out of the car..."? Really? LOL.

I know, I thought that was pretty great myself.

nastynice
05-28-2017, 08:14 PM
Cant beleive what durrant came out and said, **** that guy,

its not his fault, you are one of the best players in the nba and you join the best team in the nba. How can you blame the bad teams for that. I hope he tears his acl and ends his career, guy sounds like an ******* and a fool.

When all the best players leave their teams to join up and play together, that the reason you lack parity you moron.

How about this to solve this problem, each team can only sign two max contracts, all other players must make less than 1/2 of what a max contract would be worth, that way, a team with 3 bonafied stars cant sign a 4th.

**** you durrant, you and lebron have ruined the nba for 30 out of 32 teams in the nba. Congrats playing the same team every year,

I dunno man, our front office had neither of those two players and we looked like the best team in the league for almost two years.

Maybe if other front offices knew how to construct a team, parity wouldn't be such an issue