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View Full Version : Lakers. Celtics. Who is in a better situation to succeed / contend RIGHT NOW?



lol, please
05-20-2017, 07:09 PM
The two most storied franchises in the NBA along with the Sixers and Warriors.

Which legendary franchise is in a better situation to make a real run in the next two seasons?

Discuss.

GoferKing_
05-20-2017, 07:23 PM
What a question... isn't it obvious?... lol, please...

lol, please
05-20-2017, 07:25 PM
What a question... isn't it obvious?... lol, please...
I think maybe a few months ago it obvious...but with the Lakers draft situation and with stars rumored to want to head there, don't you think the Lakers can catch up to the Celtics in less than a season?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-20-2017, 07:32 PM
One is in the ECF and has the number one pick, and the other one doesn't.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-20-2017, 08:16 PM
I think maybe a few months ago it obvious...but with the Lakers draft situation and with stars rumored to want to head there, don't you think the Lakers can catch up to the Celtics in less than a season?

Even though Lonzo > Steph, he isn't on the Lakers RIGHT NOW. So RIGHT NOW, Celtics 100%.

lol, please
05-20-2017, 08:19 PM
Even though Lonzo > Steph, he isn't on the Lakers RIGHT NOW. So RIGHT NOW, Celtics 100%.

ok well the right now part was click bait-ish but in the post I say now into the next two seasons, so it's a combination of who's in a better situation now and who has a chance to make it to the top faster over the next season or so.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-20-2017, 08:20 PM
ok well the right now part was click bait-ish but in the post I say now into the next two seasons, so it's a combination of who's in a better situation now and who has a chance to make it to the top faster over the next season or so.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR Lakers.

goingfor28
05-20-2017, 08:29 PM
And you said another players thread was delusional...

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lol, please
05-20-2017, 08:38 PM
And you said another players thread was delusional...

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I think it's a very good topic. Again, this is over the span of the next two seasons. Now in this case includes the immediate future.

lol, please
05-20-2017, 08:39 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR Brook.

Fixed that for you.

Scoots
05-20-2017, 08:44 PM
The two most storied franchises in the NBA along with the Sixers and Warriors.

Which legendary franchise is in a better situation to make a real run in the next two seasons?

Discuss.

Warriors.

And the Knicks and Bulls are not storied franchises?

Jamiecballer
05-20-2017, 08:49 PM
This is ridiculous unless you know of some good young players the Lakers have acquired since the last time I checked - which BTW was yesterday

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Shlumpledink
05-20-2017, 08:50 PM
What has boston done lately? Obviously its the nets who have the best team going forward

Scoots
05-20-2017, 10:04 PM
You guys are missing it ... the OP gave us 4 teams, not just 2.

Celtics, Lakers, Sixers, Warriors.

Warriors is the obvious answer.

jaydubb
05-20-2017, 10:19 PM
You guys are missing it ... the OP gave us 4 teams, not just 2.

Celtics, Lakers, Sixers, Warriors.

Warriors is the obvious answer.
Title was misleading if that's the case.. If it's Celtics or lakers, clearly the Celtics are in a better position for the immediate future.. If we are talking about lakers Celtics 76ers or warriors, it goes warriors (because they are already legit contenders) then the Celtics (who are possibly one player away from being legit contenders) with a clear advantage.

After that imo it goes lakers due to supposedly DeMarcus cousins and/or Paul George wanting to go to LA, then 76ers which has a better youth movement, but veteran players probably won't wanna go there nearly as much so their rise will take a little longer.. Neither the 76ers or lakers will be contenders in the next couple years but I think lakers will be better given the supposed interest from certain all stars as I mentioned

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GoferKing_
05-21-2017, 10:51 AM
I think maybe a few months ago it obvious...but with the Lakers draft situation and with stars rumored to want to head there, don't you think the Lakers can catch up to the Celtics in less than a season?

Boston is in a better draft situation. Now we are basing facts on rumors? Can they catch up? Sure. RIGHT NOW everything says Celtics, and thay can easily leave Lakers much further behind.

More-Than-Most
05-21-2017, 12:26 PM
Title was misleading if that's the case.. If it's Celtics or lakers, clearly the Celtics are in a better position for the immediate future.. If we are talking about lakers Celtics 76ers or warriors, it goes warriors (because they are already legit contenders) then the Celtics (who are possibly one player away from being legit contenders) with a clear advantage.

After that imo it goes lakers due to supposedly DeMarcus cousins and/or Paul George wanting to go to LA, then 76ers which has a better youth movement, but veteran players probably won't wanna go there nearly as much so their rise will take a little longer.. Neither the 76ers or lakers will be contenders in the next couple years but I think lakers will be better given the supposed interest from certain all stars as I mentioned

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the sixers have more money and wont need to trade assets to bring in players and could easily bring in lowry/holiday asap.... on top of having embiid/saric/tlc/simmons/covington/holmes/our 3rd pick and your pick next year and the kings pick the year after that.

its not a shot at the lakers but if you just take covington on your team he is instantly your best 2 way player because of his insane defense and people forget he is still young and growing himself.... Saric is your teams best player if he were on the lakers. This doesnt even factor in the best player in basketball talent in embiid if healthy and simmons

on top of that ingram gets a ton of hype but look at ingram stats compared to TLC for us who is insanely raw and our 24th pick with also a ton of upside... they were similar lol

mike_noodles
05-21-2017, 02:06 PM
It's a tie, they both lose. Neither team will be close to contention in the next two years.

Vinylman
05-21-2017, 02:27 PM
Boston is in a better draft situation. Now we are basing facts on rumors? Can they catch up? Sure. RIGHT NOW everything says Celtics, and thay can easily leave Lakers much further behind.

I love the Celts assets but major mistakes can happen with them in the next 24 months...

overpaying guys like

IT
AB
MS

is a real possibility

and Horford despite his performance in the first two rounds is worthless against the Cavs

valade16
05-21-2017, 02:36 PM
The Celtics are simultaneously doing a better job of competing and building for the future.

GoferKing_
05-22-2017, 02:28 AM
I love the Celts assets but major mistakes can happen with them in the next 24 months...

overpaying guys like

IT
AB
MS

is a real possibility

and Horford despite his performance in the first two rounds is worthless against the Cavs

Yep, that is the shiet that every team can do. Just look at the Lakers. Lets not assume Boston does everything wrong and LA does everything right. And RIGHT NOW Boston is in a much much much better situation.

jaydubb
05-22-2017, 03:57 AM
the sixers have more money and wont need to trade assets to bring in players and could easily bring in lowry/holiday asap.... on top of having embiid/saric/tlc/simmons/covington/holmes/our 3rd pick and your pick next year and the kings pick the year after that.

its not a shot at the lakers but if you just take covington on your team he is instantly your best 2 way player because of his insane defense and people forget he is still young and growing himself.... Saric is your teams best player if he were on the lakers. This doesnt even factor in the best player in basketball talent in embiid if healthy and simmons

on top of that ingram gets a ton of hype but look at ingram stats compared to TLC for us who is insanely raw and our 24th pick with also a ton of upside... they were similar lol
We can talk about the young guys all day, I said that I think the 76ers have better young talent currently than the lakers do and I stand by that. The reason I give the lakers the edge isn't because of the situation they are in right now, the thread was based on where they will be in the next 2 years and there's lots of rumors buzzing about established players that want to join the lakers, specifically in 2018.. Whether that's true or not, we will see. I'm a little scheptical but we will see.. If players do start joining the lakers, the lakers will be better than the 76ers in 2 years. However, in 5 years it may be a different story though because the 76ers young guys could all develop into a great team together but would take more time

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More-Than-Most
05-22-2017, 04:09 AM
We can talk about the young guys all day, I said that I think the 76ers have better young talent currently than the lakers do and I stand by that. The reason I give the lakers the edge isn't because of the situation they are in right now, the thread was based on where they will be in the next 2 years and there's lots of rumors buzzing about established players that want to join the lakers, specifically in 2018.. Whether that's true or not, we will see. I'm a little scheptical but we will see.. If players do start joining the lakers, the lakers will be better than the 76ers in 2 years. However, in 5 years it may be a different story though because the 76ers young guys could all develop into a great team together but would take more time

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I feel bad for the lakers because its not a fair playing field... let me explain... All of these free agents are always going to be rumored to them and for the most part they will miss out and its mostly an unfair system... They and the knicks bring in the most money...... Teams already have advantages of offering guys super max deals thus keeping them away from other teams which I have no issues with because it makes things fair... the reason why big markets are no longer the go to move is yes because the lakers/knicks have been bad and stars wanna play with stars but the NBA is so big world wide right now that all you need to do is be a top player AD or PG13 and you can play in any market and get massive deals and commercials and endorsements... The unfair thing is now all teams have money.... all teams have populartiy... most teams are just in much better winning situations.... there are super teams out there already and most of all the state tax is ****ing insane against players in these 2 places...... Melo got a 120 million dollar deal or so... He lost 21 million to taxes...... Big markets are no longer the shiny prize players need.

More-Than-Most
05-22-2017, 04:12 AM
I will say this... The sixers are in the worst situation in all of sports... the reason? Colangelos.... Not even kidding... I blow a goat to have a moron like phil jackson running the show lol... The NBA knew what they were doing... these ****ers want to tank and flip us off while doing it... fine lets give them a handicap... enter Jerry colangelo.

jaydubb
05-22-2017, 04:47 AM
I feel bad for the lakers because its not a fair playing field... let me explain... All of these free agents are always going to be rumored to them and for the most part they will miss out and its mostly an unfair system... They and the knicks bring in the most money...... Teams already have advantages of offering guys super max deals thus keeping them away from other teams which I have no issues with because it makes things fair... the reason why big markets are no longer the go to move is yes because the lakers/knicks have been bad and stars wanna play with stars but the NBA is so big world wide right now that all you need to do is be a top player AD or PG13 and you can play in any market and get massive deals and commercials and endorsements... The unfair thing is now all teams have money.... all teams have populartiy... most teams are just in much better winning situations.... there are super teams out there already and most of all the state tax is ****ing insane against players in these 2 places...... Melo got a 120 million dollar deal or so... He lost 21 million to taxes...... Big markets are no longer the shiny prize players need.

Its more about what teams can offer the most money that already has established players. I get that

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lol, please
05-22-2017, 11:41 AM
We can talk about the young guys all day, I said that I think the 76ers have better young talent currently than the lakers do and I stand by that. The reason I give the lakers the edge isn't because of the situation they are in right now, the thread was based on where they will be in the next 2 years and there's lots of rumors buzzing about established players that want to join the lakers, specifically in 2018.. Whether that's true or not, we will see. I'm a little scheptical but we will see.. If players do start joining the lakers, the lakers will be better than the 76ers in 2 years. However, in 5 years it may be a different story though because the 76ers young guys could all develop into a great team together but would take more time

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Why skeptical?


Would be crazy if the Sixers built up a monster team like the Warrriors did (through the draft)

Oakmont_4
05-22-2017, 12:25 PM
Boston is clearly in better shape.
1. They have better and more draft picks (this year and in the future).
2. They have more cap space this offseason AND don't have the albatross contracts on their roster.
3. They have a better coach
4. They have more experience/success collectively throughout the roster
5. They have more tradable assets (not talking value, just quantity)

LA Lakers are still in good position
1. They have one of the top location players prefer to go to
2. They have a #2 pick this year to pair with former top 5 picks in Russell and Ingram (top end young talent)
3. They should have the ability to clear cap space fairly easily if they so choose

jaydubb
05-22-2017, 03:54 PM
Why skeptical?


Would be crazy if the Sixers built up a monster team like the Warrriors did (through the draft)
I'm a little skeptical because of the reasons MTM said actually. I agree with him for the most part which is why I didn't really argue much. Thing is, it seems like every offseason players are rumored to go to the lakers and they don't end up going there.. I really believe that players value money first and foremost and then team situations second (so if established players are already on the team) then after that players might value location or "hometown team" but I really feel like that last one is more of an afterthought than these reporters are trying to make it out to be.. These reports that players are "dead set" on going to their hometown team, I'm just not buying it unless their hometown team also has those first 2 things (money and established players already on team).

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hugepatsfan
05-22-2017, 04:10 PM
LAL for young talent on rookie contracts have:

Russell
Randle
Ingram
Zubac
Ball (let's assume)
Larry Nance

They have no 1st rounder next year (gone to PHI). Clarkson is a solid young player locked up for 3 more years. They don't have max cap space this offseason. They have room for one next year and can create a second by dumping Deng and Mozgov along with either allowing Randle to walk or salary dumping Clarkson.

BOS for young talent on rookie contracts has:

Smart
Brown
Fultz (again, let's assume)
Rozier

BOS also has two overseas prospects in Ante Zizic and Guershon Yabusule that are highly thought of. Crowder is a good young player signed cheaply for 3 more years. Bradley and IT are in their primes and we will have bird rights on. We have another potentially high pick coming from BRK next year. Horford is an overpaid but very good player and he's locked up. We will not have max cap space next year without renouncing IT/Bradley/Smart but we will have it this year (just have to dump Rozier).

The absolute best case scenario for the Lakers is probably that they land George and Cousins next year:

Ball/Clarkson
Russell
Ingram
George/Nance
Cousins/Zubac
(I assumed they'd opt to let Randle walk over dumping Clarkson based on their depth chart)

They'd drain pretty much all the assets they have to dump Deng and Mozgov to make this happen of course.

BOS's best case scenario is that they sign Hayward this year and then eventually end up with:

IT/Fultz
Bradley/Smart
Hayward/Brown
Crowder/Yabusele
Horford/Zizic

Plus next year's BRK pick to either add a player or be packaged in a trade.



Personally, I take BOS's future but I'm biased.

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 12:34 AM
Some of you guys are just too damn lazy to actually look at their future. Lakers have enough cap space for TWO max players in 2018. Boston will most likely resign Thomas. They have ONE max player available in 2018.

Look at their young players. Who has the better roster? Obviously Lakers.
Bradley/Marcus/Crowder/Amir are all free agents by 2018. Right now, Boston's leverage IS the fact they have Thomas at such a great contract.

Lakers have Ingram, Randle, Ball, and DLO. All great trade pieces. 2/4, IMO, are all-star talent. Players love Lakers and not Celtics. Sorry, that's the fact.

And are some of you oblivious to the fact that Magic Johnson is the new captain? His ability to attract players is going to be very important. I can easily see PG+Cousins coming in. By that time, Lonzo's in his second year, Randle would be a very good player, Ingram would probably hit 20 PPG already, and you still have D'Lo.

Lonzo
PG
Cousins
Ingram
Randle

Celtics probably get IT, Horford, Hayward, Brown, and Fultz. Who else?

Give me the Lakers.

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 01:24 AM
Some of you guys are just too damn lazy to actually look at their future. Lakers have enough cap space for TWO max players in 2018. Boston will most likely resign Thomas. They have ONE max player available in 2018.

Look at their young players. Who has the better roster? Obviously Lakers.
Bradley/Marcus/Crowder/Amir are all free agents by 2018. Right now, Boston's leverage IS the fact they have Thomas at such a great contract.

Lakers have Ingram, Randle, Ball, and DLO. All great trade pieces. 2/4, IMO, are all-star talent. Players love Lakers and not Celtics. Sorry, that's the fact.

And are some of you oblivious to the fact that Magic Johnson is the new captain? His ability to attract players is going to be very important. I can easily see PG+Cousins coming in. By that time, Lonzo's in his second year, Randle would be a very good player, Ingram would probably hit 20 PPG already, and you still have D'Lo.

Lonzo
PG
Cousins
Ingram
Randle

Celtics probably get IT, Horford, Hayward, Brown, and Fultz. Who else?

Give me the Lakers.

they cant afford cousins/PG13 and keep randle... Other guys will have to be traded to get rid of Deng/Mos for any of this to happen etc etc etc... You dont seem to be factoring these things in... Even if they get cousins/George and run a line up of Cousins/George/Russ/Clarkson/Ball they have no depth now because of what they will trade away or release.... hell they probably have to give up russ as well.... A lot has to go right for them while the celtics have alot going right currently on top of another lottery pick next year and the ability to trade IT and have a better 2 way player in fultz while signing hayward or whomever...

Fun note... Horford would be easier to trade than deng/mos so the celics have an option there as well. I hate the celtics and love the lakers but you are being silly.

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 01:30 AM
they cant afford cousins/PG13 and keep randle... Other guys will have to be traded to get rid of Deng/Mos for any of this to happen etc etc etc... You dont seem to be factoring these things in... Even if they get cousins/George and run a line up of Cousins/George/Russ/Clarkson/Ball they have no depth now because of what they will trade away or release.... hell they probably have to give up russ as well.... A lot has to go right for them while the celtics have alot going right currently on top of another lottery pick next year and the ability to trade IT and have a better 2 way player in fultz while signing hayward or whomever...

Fun note... Horford would be easier to trade than deng/mos so the celics have an option there as well. I hate the celtics and love the lakers but you are being silly.

Team option for Ingram/DLO. QO for Randle. They're not exactly strapped. Mosgov/Deng coming off the bench can make some playoff noise. Boston can't. Wizards and Bulls almost beat em and that was THEIR core... IT+Horford+Bradley+Crowder+Smart. What's IT+Horford gonna do?

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:00 AM
You are banking on the lakers being able to do something they have not done in god knows how long in signing a big time free agent but giving no thought that the celtics could trade IT and Horford and get a ton back themselves... The lakers can contend with spurs/warriors but the celtics cant with YET AGAIN far better players and just as many young high potential guys/more money and having the first pick this year and again a lottery pick next year... Your entire argument is thoughtless.

Celtics with Hayward----------------------------------------------->Lakers with cousins/PG13 because of the defense/depth the celtics have... they dont have to trade guys to get top players... they can trade guys for more depth or a top player.

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 02:02 AM
You are banking on the lakers being able to do something they have not done in god knows how long in signing a big time free agent but giving no thought that the celtics could trade IT and Horford and get a ton back themselves... The lakers can contend with spurs/warriors but the celtics can with YET AGAIN far better players and just as many young high potential guys/more money and having the first pick this year and again a lottery pick next year... Your entire argument is thoughtless.

Magic Johnson. You underestimate the impact this guy has in the NBA. Thoughtless? This entire question is a hypothetical. Oh wait, Embiid will be the best player in two seasons. Got it.

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:02 AM
Magic Johnson. You underestimate the impact this guy has in the NBA. Thoughtless? This entire question is a hypothetical. Oh wait, Embiid will be the best player in two seasons. Got it.

like Phil Jackson right? How did that turn out?

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:11 AM
Not even going to go further with your swiss cheese like arguments... I cant... I like the lakers because of ingram and russ and ****ing hate the celtics and I am here arguing for them... PASS.

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 02:14 AM
like Phil Jackson right? How did that turn out?

You do realize players actually respect Magic, right? You can't find one negative thing about Magic but players are well aware of what Phil has said about players in his books. Basically criticizing Kobe and Shaq. PG is already interested.. I think that's a foregone conclusion. They got rid of the lame Buss brother. No one liked the guy. You'll see. I'm not a Lakers fan but to deny that they don't have a great future is really silly. They have the cap space and young roster in play. Luke knows how to coach.

FOXHOUND
05-23-2017, 02:14 AM
like Phil Jackson right? How did that turn out?

Sadly, unlike Phil Jackson, Magic is actually a great communicator and knows his lane. Magic immediately talked about needing to hire people smarter than him, because he has a lot to learn. Phil is too busy thinking he knows everything and can't get out of his own way with over indulgence.

I am also betting on Magic to succeed as President. I don't know about them being great within two years or even ultimately landing George, but Magic is going to do well.

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 02:15 AM
Not even going to go further with your swiss cheese like arguments... I cant... I like the lakers because of ingram and russ and ****ing hate the celtics and I am here arguing for them... PASS.

Me too, I'll PASS. Just like I'll pass on Embiid.

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:18 AM
Me too, I'll PASS. Just like I'll pass on Embiid.

like your brain passed on understanding the sport of basketball? Dont bait if you cant take the heat fella.

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:19 AM
Sadly, unlike Phil Jackson, Magic is actually a great communicator and knows his lane. Magic immediately talked about needing to hire people smarter than him, because he has a lot to learn. Phil is too busy thinking he knows everything and can't get out of his own way with over indulgence.

I am also betting on Magic to succeed as President. I don't know about them being great within two years or even ultimately landing George, but Magic is going to do well.

ok so how about MJ? I could keep going if you would like

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 02:20 AM
like your brain passed on understanding the sport of basketball? Dont bait if you cant take the heat fella.

Not baiting. Just using a CLEAR winning point that you seemed to always lose regarding Embiid. It's funny how you say I don't understand basketball but you were on my jock when I bashed Horford. You seem to be a bit confused. You only like someone when they agree with you. Clearly you can't defend any of your arguments.

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 02:22 AM
ok so how about MJ? I could keep going if you would like

Someone didn't tell you MJ and Magic are two completely different people? Why do you assume anyone good can instantly transform and attract players? Magic's approach to the game is different than Jordan's... does it take a genius to see that?

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:23 AM
Not baiting. Just using a CLEAR winning point that you seemed to always lose regarding Embiid. It's funny how you say I don't understand basketball but you were on my jock when I bashed Horford. You seem to be a bit confused. You only like someone when they agree with you. Clearly you can't defend any of your arguments.

dont care if someone agrees or disagrees... You are bringing up embiid twice for no other reason than to bait because of your horrid arguments in this thread... You had fantastic points on horford... In this thread you are wrong and out there... You cant hurt my feelings on embiid whom is fully healthy and has shown his potential... 50 percent of this site disagrees with me and most of them are great online friends/posters... You just get annoyed when a subject is over your head and your arguments get picked apart.

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:26 AM
Someone didn't tell you MJ and Magic are two completely different people? Why do you assume anyone good can instantly transform and attract players? Magic's approach to the game is different than Jordan's... does it take a genius to see that?

so basically anytime I bring up someone that had the respect and the winning history etc etc etc you are just going to say something well they are 2 completely different people as your argument lmfao... is this real life? You are banking on a guy that has had NO GM experience.... Who is a great businessman... a great former player.... and who is respected all over the place... SOUNDS LIKE MJ right? You are banking on Magic being amazing with nothing to back up any of your points... could he? sure its possible but as usual you are making it out as a sure thing and basing your baseless opinion on it like it has weight which it doesnt.

You having faith in Magic means **** on this subject because he is unknown entering a team that has few pieces and is one of the worst teams in basketball where alot can go wrong... he might be the best GM ever but in this situation you are acting like his name means=Greatness in the fron office or all of a sudden makes Ball a goat player etc etc etc... Like I said baseless dumb arguments that you think have weight

I ****ing hate Ainge... You are going forward with the lakers because you have some stupid faith in Magic because you think he will be great... Ainge made one of if not the best trade in the history of the sport... Ainge chose IT in the second round if I remember correctly etc etc... ainge hired stevens... Ainge as much as I **** on him for not making a movie has a proven history of being a good GM but for some reason you think the lakers deserve the nudge because of Magic ****ing Johanson... LMFAO

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 02:28 AM
dont care if someone agrees or disagrees... You are bringing up embiid twice for no other reason than to bait because of your horrid arguments in this thread... You had fantastic points on horford... In this thread you are wrong and out there... You cant hurt my feelings on embiid whom is fully healthy and has shown his potential... 50 percent of this site disagrees with me and most of them are great online friends/posters... You just get annoyed when a subject is over your head and your arguments get picked apart.

I mentioned Embiid for practical purposes. If that offends you, I will make sure to send you a sorry letter. I hope his knees are ready for next season. Anyways, how did you pick apart my argument? Lakers have two max slots available in 2018 and Lonzo+Ingram+D'LO and Randle is on a QO. So again, I ask you, how does that not even put Lakers in contention as one of the teams with a better future? LED by Luke Walton - who is a promising coach and Magic Johnson - who understands the game of basketball better than 99% of the NBA? You haven't cracked my argument at all. You've just shown that you can type that you did.

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:32 AM
I mentioned Embiid for practical purposes. If that offends you, I will make sure to send you a sorry letter. I hope his knees are ready for next season. Anyways, how did you pick apart my argument? Lakers have two max slots available in 2018 and Lonzo+Ingram+D'LO and Randle is on a QO. So again, I ask you, how does that not even put Lakers in contention as one of the teams with a better future? LED by Luke Walton - who is a promising coach and Magic Johnson - who understands the game of basketball better than 99% of the NBA? You haven't cracked my argument at all. You've just shown that you can type that you did.

how do you think they can sign those spots and keep all of those players without trading deng/mos? ITS GOING TO TAKE PIECES TO TRADE THOSE GUYS.

They arent just going to sit deng/mos for the next 4 years... they will be traded

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 02:32 AM
so basically anytime I bring up someone that had the respect and the winning history etc etc etc you are just going to say something well they are 2 completely different people as your argument lmfao... is this real life? You are banking on a guy that has had NO GM experience.... Who is a great businessman... a great former player.... and who is respected all over the place... SOUNDS LIKE MJ right? You are banking on Magic being amazing with nothing to back up any of your points... could he? sure its possible but as usual you are making it out as a sure thing and basing your baseless opinion on it like it has weight which it doesnt.

1) Danny Ainge is one of the worst GM's. Hasn't drafted anyone worth mentioning with all those picks and outside of the new draft picks he's gotten, hasn't done much before that. But "experience" huh?
2) Part of being a GM is being able to manage a business because you understand negotiations. Magic is a communicator and players love him. You can't possibly think if you're PG that speaking with Magic wouldn't entice you. Would you rather play for Magic or Ainge? I rest my case.
3) MJ was respected as a player - not as a person. Magic is respected as both.
4) It's not baseless. It's putting 1+1 together. Magic wouldn't have taken the job if he wasn't sure he would do a good job. His own words: "If I'm not in charge, I'm not wasting my time here." For Magic to say something like that, means he's pretty damn confident he can get things rolling. The guy can be making more money than he'll ever make as a GM of the Lakers...

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 02:36 AM
how do you think they can sign those spots and keep all of those players without trading deng/mos? ITS GOING TO TAKE PIECES TO TRADE THOSE GUYS.

Didn't I already tell you that outside of the QO from Randle, D'LO and Ingram can stay with the Lakers for two years? Stop looking at every potential issue that can come to fruition when I can say the same for ANY team. The point is, they have the ability to sign two max players and have a great developing cast. Not many teams have that. And Boston will overpay for IT and be stuck with him for five seasons. Horford is there for three more years.. They only have enough cap to sign Hayward and then what? I like my chances with the Lakers.

FOXHOUND
05-23-2017, 03:01 AM
ok so how about MJ? I could keep going if you would like

Nah, MJ was too much like Phil. He's been a far more successful owner since he stepped back from basketball decisions. Actually, come to think of it, the way Jordan would play his players in practice and demoralize them... kinda exactly like Phil being President and trying to run practices and coaching decisions. Really odd lol.

But no, Magic and Jordan are completely different people. The insane, competitive drive and ego in Jordan and Phil hurts them in front office roles. Magic isn't like that, he's a very collaborative person and his ego subsided when he retired. When it comes to Magic, think more of his coach - Pat Riley.

Still, doesn't mean the Lakers will be this or that within two years. That's a really short time in the front office world lol.

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 06:14 AM
Some of you guys are just too damn lazy to actually look at their future. Lakers have enough cap space for TWO max players in 2018. Boston will most likely resign Thomas. They have ONE max player available in 2018.

Completely situational. I wouldn't say most likely at all. They may. But there's an equal possibility they do not.


Look at their young players. Who has the better roster? Obviously Lakers.
Bradley/Marcus/Crowder/Amir are all free agents by 2018. Right now, Boston's leverage IS the fact they have Thomas at such a great contract.

Yeah...Obviously the Lakers who had a bottom 5 record and the Celtics were the #1 seed in the East. But yeah, the Lakers have a better roster right now. If you're trying to say the Lakers young players have more upside, I wouldn't argue, but they DO NOT have a better roster right now. That's a joke of a statement.


Lakers have Ingram, Randle, Ball, and DLO. All great trade pieces. 2/4, IMO, are all-star talent. Players love Lakers and not Celtics. Sorry, that's the fact.

Who's the last big name Free Agent the Lakers signed?


And are some of you oblivious to the fact that Magic Johnson is the new captain? His ability to attract players is going to be very important. I can easily see PG+Cousins coming in. By that time, Lonzo's in his second year, Randle would be a very good player, Ingram would probably hit 20 PPG already, and you still have D'Lo.

Lonzo
PG
Cousins
Ingram
Randle

Great...Need a lot to go right for that to happen. What if one of PG and Cousins doesn't come aboard? Then what? BTW good luck with Cousins.


Celtics probably get IT, Horford, Hayward, Brown, and Fultz. Who else?

You left off...
2018 BRK pick.
Bradley
Crowder
Rozier
Zizic
Yabu

Now none are great as is..But plenty of value there via trade. Why is it ok to assume the Lakers are going to make trades that help build the team but the Celtics don't get the same assumptions? If the Lakers are automatically going to be able to move Moz and Deng (no easy task and going to cost you assets) why can't the Celtics move any of these above pieces who have far more trade value than Moz and Deng to help their roster?

Also say the Lakers do get PG and Cousins and have some combination of Ball, Randle, Nance, Russell, and Ingram (won't all be there) where's there bench? They have no draft pick in 2018. If they're any good after 2018 their draft picks will be nothing special.

The Celtics have BRK 2018 pick (likely top 5), MEM and LAC 2019 picks and all of their own picks in those years.

Who's to say the C's don't sign Hayward this year. Then at the trade deadline package Crowder, Smart and some picks for Butler.

IT-Butler-Hayward-Horford-Brown-Fultz-Bradley...I'd take that team up against Ball-Russell-Ingram-PG-Cousins-Nance ALL DAY LONG.

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 06:23 AM
Completely situational. I wouldn't say most likely at all. They may. But there's an equal possibility they do not.



Yeah...Obviously the Lakers who had a bottom 5 record and the Celtics were the #1 seed in the East. But yeah, the Lakers have a better roster right now. If you're trying to say the Lakers young players have more upside, I wouldn't argue, but they DO NOT have a better roster right now. That's a joke of a statement.



Who's the last big name Free Agent the Lakers signed?



Great...Need a lot to go right for that to happen. What if one of PG and Cousins doesn't come aboard? Then what? BTW good luck with Cousins.



You left off...
2018 BRK pick.
Bradley
Crowder
Rozier
Zizic
Yabu

Now none are great as is..But plenty of value there via trade. Why is it ok to assume the Lakers are going to make trades that help build the team but the Celtics don't get the same assumptions? If the Lakers are automatically going to be able to move Moz and Deng (no easy task and going to cost you assets) why can't the Celtics move any of these above pieces who have far more trade value than Moz and Deng to help their roster?

Also say the Lakers do get PG and Cousins and have some combination of Ball, Randle, Nance, Russell, and Ingram (won't all be there) where's there bench? They have no draft pick in 2018. If they're any good after 2018 their draft picks will be nothing special.

The Celtics have BRK 2018 pick (likely top 5), MEM and LAC 2019 picks and all of their own picks in those years.

Who's to say the C's don't sign Hayward this year. Then at the trade deadline package Crowder, Smart and some picks for Butler.

IT-Butler-Hayward-Horford-Brown-Fultz-Bradley...I'd take that team up against Ball-Russell-Ingram-PG-Cousins-Nance ALL DAY LONG.

but yo.................. Magic ****ing Johnson man. Jesus christ.

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 06:44 AM
but yo.................. Magic ****ing Johnson man. Jesus christ.

Exactly. Apparently being a great NBA player makes you a great GM (unless your name is Michael or Larry). But if you're only a good NBA player (Ainge) you're a terrible GM and no player would want to play for you.

I don't get it. Magic has literally done nothing yet. Oh wait, my bad, he acquired a late first round pick. Tanked his team (and didn't even do that right) and then got lucky in the lottery and jumped from 4 to 2. HOLY CRAP how did I miss his greatness as a GM!

All sarcasm aside. I do think Magic will be a pretty good GM. But everything is not going to go perfectly for him in his first 2 years. He will make mistakes along the way and I'm sure he'll learn from them. He will get better as time goes on. He inherited a great situation which will help him immensely. But just to assume he'll be great based off his name and everything will go perfectly and everyone will want to play for him because, well, he's MAGIC...Is incredibly idiotic.

Vinylman
05-23-2017, 06:44 AM
You are banking on the lakers being able to do something they have not done in god knows how long in signing a big time free agent but giving no thought that the celtics could trade IT and Horford and get a ton back themselves... The lakers can contend with spurs/warriors but the celtics cant with YET AGAIN far better players and just as many young high potential guys/more money and having the first pick this year and again a lottery pick next year... Your entire argument is thoughtless.

Celtics with Hayward----------------------------------------------->Lakers with cousins/PG13 because of the defense/depth the celtics have... they dont have to trade guys to get top players... they can trade guys for more depth or a top player.

Horford and IT aren't going to net you much... Horford with the big deal already and IT with the impending disaster deal.

I like the Celtics situation but they really need to get Hayward and then turn their volume of assets into a star...

this summer is the last summer of the big spending because of the jump again in the cap... once it levels out everyone will be trying to dump contracts and their won't be a lot of takers... that is why I am so gun ho on the Lakers dumping at least one of moz or deng this summer even if it is just for an expiring

I would literally do a deal with anyone combining Deng/randle wherein we take nothing back

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 06:57 AM
Horford and IT aren't going to net you much... Horford with the big deal already and IT with the impending disaster deal.

I like the Celtics situation but they really need to get Hayward and then turn their volume of assets into a star...

this summer is the last summer of the big spending because of the jump again in the cap... once it levels out everyone will be trying to dump contracts and their won't be a lot of takers... that is why I am so gun ho on the Lakers dumping at least one of moz or deng this summer even if it is just for an expiring

I would literally do a deal with anyone combining Deng/randle wherein we take nothing back

Right, but for the exact reason you listed, there aren't going to be many if any teams willing to do that. You're going to have to attach actual assets to these players to get a team to bite on taking on those contracts.

Vinylman
05-23-2017, 07:11 AM
Right, but for the exact reason you listed, there aren't going to be many if any teams willing to do that. You're going to have to attach actual assets to these players to get a team to bite on taking on those contracts.

nah... this summer that deal probably can get done if we take back an equal salary for this coming year... I didn't mean we wouldn't take anyone back... just that what we took back would be worthless in terms of forward looking value.

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 07:46 AM
nah... this summer that deal probably can get done if we take back an equal salary for this coming year... I didn't mean we wouldn't take anyone back... just that what we took back would be worthless in terms of forward looking value.

So you think you can trade 1 of or both of Deng/Mozgov for an equal expiring contract??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good one.

PowerHouse
05-23-2017, 08:12 AM
The two most storied franchises in the NBA along with the Sixers and Warriors.


Get the Warriors the F out of that comparison of storied franchises. You have three mega-novels and then you have a brochure.

Vinylman
05-23-2017, 08:32 AM
So you think you can trade 1 of or both of Deng/Mozgov for an equal expiring contract??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good one.

is that what I said? do you have reading comprehension problems? Deng/Randle for an expiring

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 08:58 AM
is that what I said? do you have reading comprehension problems?

Yes it is. And no I do not.

You said, and I quote "nah... this summer that deal probably can get done if we take back an equal salary for this coming year" The only way to read that sentence is you're taking back an equal contract for 1 year. AKA an expiring contract.

You continued, and I quote ".. I didn't mean we wouldn't take anyone back... just that what we took back would be worthless in terms of forward looking value." Again, meaning an expiring contract.

Nowhere in your post did you mention attaching an asset to do so.


Deng/Randle for an expiring

Ok, now this is reasonable. You're still getting nothing back other than a worthless player on an expiring contract. You still have Moz to ditch in order to clear out that second max contract. Which asset are you attaching to ditch Moz?

Let's say you can ditch Moz/Clarkson as a package for another expiring.

So you draft Ball to pair with Ingram, Russell, Nance and Zubac. You sign PG and Cousins (good luck with Cousins). It's definitely a nice team...Not going to say it's better than what the Celtics CAN do. This is the BEST case scenario for LA and literally everything would have to go their way to get this done.

Here's what you need to go right to get to where the C's are now...
1. Be able to ditch Moz and Deng, which even attaching assets is no easy task
2. Hit on your 2 draft picks this year
3. Hope Ingram, Russell, Nance and Zubac continue to progress
4. Sign PG13
5. Sign Cousins
6. Somehow get a bench between few draft picks, no cap space, no assets to trade.

It's definitely all possible. But no easy task. And that still doesn't make you better than GS is right now. SO you're in the WCF losing to GS. In 2 years from now. Whereas BOS is already in the ECF (admittedly weaker) but has a 2 year head start and plenty of picks to keep backfilling their roster with equal if not better trade assets (because we don't have bad contracts to unload)

hugepatsfan
05-23-2017, 09:18 AM
I mentioned Embiid for practical purposes. If that offends you, I will make sure to send you a sorry letter. I hope his knees are ready for next season. Anyways, how did you pick apart my argument? Lakers have two max slots available in 2018 and Lonzo+Ingram+D'LO and Randle is on a QO. So again, I ask you, how does that not even put Lakers in contention as one of the teams with a better future? LED by Luke Walton - who is a promising coach and Magic Johnson - who understands the game of basketball better than 99% of the NBA? You haven't cracked my argument at all. You've just shown that you can type that you did.

They can get there but right now they don't even have one if they keep all of the young core you describe. It's not exactly cut and dry.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/cap/2018/

That shows $62,677,311 in active contracts on 7 players.

Randle's cap hold is $5,564,134. Lonzo's Ball's year 2 rookie scale salary will be $7,461,960. They also have #29 this year and the year 2 salary for that player will be $1,667,160.

Add those 3 holds/salaries in and they're up to $77,370,565. Under the projected $102M cap for this offseason that would only give them $24,629,435 of cap room when the max (30% because that's where the guys they want will be) is $30.3M.

The 2018 cap is projected at $103M on spotrac. Not sure if accurate but let's say it is. A max for George/Cousins would be $30.9M in that case so in order to sign both they would need $61.8M. They'd be at $25,629,435 of cap room. So they need to clear (Again, this is all assuming a $103M cap). $36,170,565.

Also keep in mind that before signings they would be up to 10 players/holds. The 2 FAs would get them to 12 so they don't need to worry about the minimum. But for every guy they "dump" they need to add a roster hold which takes away roughly $1M of cap each.

Dumping Deng and Mozgov would free up $34M and then net out to $32M. So it gets them sooooooooo close to 2 full maxes. BUT, they're not dumping those guys without attaching assets. So they're going to have to dip into that core to some degree to attach assets teams want.

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 09:20 AM
I'm not even going to bother responding to you guys anymore. I've learned that I've wasted enough time on here trying to "argue" with people who are just stubborn/ignorant. Just putting this out here, I never said "Magic Johnson will lead this franchise to the best ever" or whatever variation you guys seem to think. I said it's ONE of the reasons why this franchise can turn around. This MTM guy is a total joke. On one thread he goes around bashing Horford+IT and how bad they are. Then on another thread, he's saying they have a better future. No they don't. Boston won't resign Bradley because they don't have the cap space IF they sign a max. Bradley is getting near max dollars. Ingram+Ball+D'Lo+Randle + two max players. Do you guys just gloss over facts?

hugepatsfan
05-23-2017, 09:25 AM
I'm not even going to bother responding to you guys anymore. I've learned that I've wasted enough time on here trying to "argue" with people who are just stubborn/ignorant. Just putting this out here, I never said "Magic Johnson will lead this franchise to the best ever" or whatever variation you guys seem to think. I said it's ONE of the reasons why this franchise can turn around. This MTM guy is a total joke. On one thread he goes around bashing Horford+IT and how bad they are. Then on another thread, he's saying they have a better future. No they don't. Boston won't resign Bradley because they don't have the cap space IF they sign a max. Bradley is getting near max dollars. Ingram+Ball+D'Lo+Randle + two max players. Do you guys just gloss over facts?

Like I outlined above, I don't see how they free up room for 2 maxes without touching that core. I don't think people are going to line up to take Deng or Mozgov so they can get back Larry Nance or Zubac or a later 1st.

I feel like that if George/Cousins really want to be there they'd take a few million less (particularly George). So LAL can probably dump Clarkson's $12.5M instead of Mozgov's $16M or Deng's $18M and be alright. But they still need to dump one of the others and IDK what asset they'll have to attach to them if they don't touch that core.

Oakmont_4
05-23-2017, 09:29 AM
I'm not even going to bother responding to you guys anymore. I've learned that I've wasted enough time on here trying to "argue" with people who are just stubborn/ignorant. Just putting this out here, I never said "Magic Johnson will lead this franchise to the best ever" or whatever variation you guys seem to think. I said it's ONE of the reasons why this franchise can turn around. This MTM guy is a total joke. On one thread he goes around bashing Horford+IT and how bad they are. Then on another thread, he's saying they have a better future. No they don't. Boston won't resign Bradley because they don't have the cap space IF they sign a max. Bradley is getting near max dollars. Ingram+Ball+D'Lo+Randle + two max players. Do you guys just gloss over facts?

Classic... Can't argue facts so we throw a temper tantrum and stomp our feet. Beauty. Would you like some milk and cookies?

corky831
05-23-2017, 09:50 AM
Ya Magics great at running an organization. He did my Red Sox a big favor with acquiring Beckett, Gonzalez, and crawford....allowing us to clear a ton of money. How many championships have the Dodgers won since then??? Danny Ainge is one of the best GMs in the game. People argue about his draft picks? Well he drafted the correct players to acquire Ray Allen and KG in trades. He fleeced the Nets by getting 4 1st round picks for aging stars. He even got a 1st rounder for Doc Rivers lol. He acquired one of the best young coaches in the game. He traded a late 1st rounder for IT. I strongly believe Durants 2nd option to the warriors was boston. We have this yrs 1st overall pick, a top 5 pick next yr most likely, the 1st rounders of Memphis and LAC will be valuable because I see those organizations declining. I highly doubt we sign IT for a max especially after this hip injury. I feel if hayward leaves Utah, he will be coming to Boston. There's a lot more certainty with the celtics than the Lakers RIGHT NOW. And if you think cousins is going to help you guys, the pelicans were basically the same team after the trade with a player better than PG in Anthony Davis. So good luck with that acquisition. Oh ya, the celtics have 2 guys stashed overseas that are highly regarded....with zizic being considered the 2nd best prospect in Europe.....

Kyben36
05-23-2017, 10:00 AM
the tanking team who is in the bottom two of the league, or the playoff number 1 seed in the east, with the top pick.

hard to say this is debatable.

not going to say that the celtics are really contenders right now, but they are a lot closer than the lakers.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-23-2017, 10:41 AM
Classic... Can't argue facts so we throw a temper tantrum and stomp our feet. Beauty. Would you like some milk and cookies?

This. His speculation on FA a year from now doesn't trump reality, so he has to take his ball and go home.

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:56 PM
I'm not even going to bother responding to you guys anymore. I've learned that I've wasted enough time on here trying to "argue" with people who are just stubborn/ignorant. Just putting this out here, I never said "Magic Johnson will lead this franchise to the best ever" or whatever variation you guys seem to think. I said it's ONE of the reasons why this franchise can turn around. This MTM guy is a total joke. On one thread he goes around bashing Horford+IT and how bad they are. Then on another thread, he's saying they have a better future. No they don't. Boston won't resign Bradley because they don't have the cap space IF they sign a max. Bradley is getting near max dollars. Ingram+Ball+D'Lo+Randle + two max players. Do you guys just gloss over facts?

Awwwwwwwwwwwww He took his ball and went home...I am a joke for thinking they can get something for IT and Horford even though i dislike them? my dislike and bashing of them means ****... the ****ing league blows IT every game... you dont think a GM will see that scoring and hit a boner? IT will net them a good bit... someone will take horford... you think these guys will get them next to nothing while the lakers can easily get out from under deng/mos and keep their young players AND IM THE JOKE? Like I said you dont have a clue.

More-Than-Most
05-23-2017, 02:58 PM
This. His speculation on FA a year from now doesn't trump reality, so he has to take his ball and go home.

:laugh: i didnt even see this when i posted mine

lol, please
10-22-2017, 06:09 PM
the tanking team who is in the bottom two of the league, or the playoff number 1 seed in the east, with the top pick.

hard to say this is debatable.

not going to say that the celtics are really contenders right now, but they are a lot closer than the lakers.

I'd say the Celtics are contenders right now.

tredigs
10-23-2017, 12:40 AM
I'd say the Celtics are contenders right now.
Strange thread to revive, especially considering the Celtics lost their only chance at being contenders. Smh. Don't be a douche.

lol, please
10-23-2017, 11:49 AM
Strange thread to revive, especially considering the Celtics lost their only chance at being contenders. Smh. Don't be a douche.

Is Hayward out for the season? I assumed he would be back in time for the playoffs and to make and impact.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-23-2017, 12:23 PM
Woj already said Hayward is shut down for the season.

Ishkabibble
10-23-2017, 02:04 PM
Woj already said Hayward is shut down for the season.

Yeah. In light of how gruesome and shocking the entire incident was I'm sure the Celtics see no real benefit in "pushing" it at all, even if Hayward is good to go come April or May.

lol, please
10-23-2017, 03:22 PM
Woj already said Hayward is shut down for the season.

That really sucks then, I was hoping he would at least be back in a limited role for the playoffs.

homie564
10-23-2017, 03:35 PM
Celtics are still holding out that hope. Though it seems unlikely heíll be back this year


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lol, please
10-23-2017, 04:21 PM
Celtics are still holding out that hope. Though it seems unlikely heíll be back this year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As a fan i'd be hoping for the same.

I know the feeling too, losing a hyped player before the season even gets going, for the whole season.

bagwell368
10-23-2017, 06:54 PM
Woj already said Hayward is shut down for the season.

Before Woj pontificated, the word from the C's was that he could start BB activities as early as March.

I think they don't want to put any pressure on him, and if he does come back effectively then then the EC teams that have to face them will be a bit surprised...

lol, please
10-23-2017, 07:05 PM
Before Woj pontificated, the word from the C's was that he could start BB activities as early as March.

I think they don't want to put any pressure on him, and if he does come back effectively then then the EC teams that have to face them will be a bit surprised...

There's still hope then. It would certainly make the playoffs more exciting.

GREATNESS ONE
10-23-2017, 07:19 PM
It's going going take much more time than March for him to get back on the floor and actually be able to fully compete. We're looking at next year here for GH.

homie564
10-24-2017, 12:11 PM
It's going going take much more time than March for him to get back on the floor and actually be able to fully compete. We're looking at next year here for GH.

Based on what though? Precedent for this type of injury looks to be about that timeline. Itís not like thatís expecting him to be iron man. Trust me, priority is that he gets back to full strength, no matter how long it takes... but itís not a crazy thought based on historical timelines for him to be back by the playoffs


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GREATNESS ONE
10-24-2017, 12:20 PM
I wouldn't risk it at all, Celtics have a really good future, especially with Irving and Tatum. He definitely could be back by that time based on the timeline but I 100% would not risk him coming back too early. Boston has a good chance but won't be beating Cleveland this year. Moving forward though, the % of beating Cleveland as they age or Lebron possibly leaving (doubtful) but their chances will increase. I would look at the big picture if I was Boston and not rush GH back this year.

mike_noodles
10-24-2017, 12:40 PM
To actually contend? The answer is neither. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand the NBA.

lol, please
10-24-2017, 03:47 PM
To actually contend? The answer is neither. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand the NBA.

Contend to me means playoff team.

I am of the belief that any team who makes it in, can win it all.