PDA

View Full Version : Greatest/Best scorer of All-time: Your criteria



valade16
05-11-2017, 12:46 AM
So my reason for this post is to essentially answer two parts.

1. Who are your top 5-10 best scorers of all-time?

2. What. Criteria do you use to decide? Do you go by volume? Efficiency? Longevity? Versatility? Difficulty to stop?

If I asked which 10 guys could score the basketball better than everyone else who would be on your list and why?

lol, please
05-11-2017, 01:20 AM
I take into account PER, TS%, versatility, and difficulty to stop more or less evenly.

Curry
Jordan
O'neal
Chamberlain
Robinson
Bird
Gilmore
Durant
Bryant
Thompson


11-15:

McGrady
Paul
James
Barkley
Harden

Quinnsanity
05-11-2017, 04:20 AM
In no particular order:

- Efficiency, how many points per shot am I getting from this guy? Is he taking smart shots

- Potential volume. I don't want a guy taking 40 shots in a game most nights, but is he capable of doing so when necessary? How badly does added volume hurt his efficiency? What is the ideal number of shots for this guy to take in a game?

- Variety. How many areas on the floor can this guy score from?

- Scarcity. How many other players can approximate the basic types of shots this guy takes? Does he take up spots on the floor his teammates probably need?

- Surplus value. How much better at scoring is this guy than the other players who play his position and/or his general style? How replaceable is he?

- Ability to get to the line. Really underrated. A great scorer really should be able to get a bunch of free throws.

I don't have a list offhand. I feel like any list presented in here is going to get hated anyway.

IKnowHoops
05-11-2017, 12:14 PM
1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Curry
5. Mcgrady
6. Kobe
7. Iverson


I left off centers because I feel like Shaq, Wilt, Kareem could all be #1-2 as well.

And of course David Robinson

FlashBolt
05-11-2017, 12:33 PM
McGrady over Kobe? That's a weird one. I don't have a particular list but West/Melo/Dantley are up there in my top ten too. I would take Iverson out. He's more volume scoring than anything so I can't give him that.

IKnowHoops
05-11-2017, 12:53 PM
McGrady over Kobe? That's a weird one. I don't have a particular list but West/Melo/Dantley are up there in my top ten too. I would take Iverson out. He's more volume scoring than anything so I can't give him that.

But that's Kobe, and that's why Iverson is last on my list and why I have Mcgrady over him(Kobe).

FlashBolt
05-11-2017, 12:59 PM
But that's Kobe, and that's why Iverson is last on my list and why I have Mcgrady over him(Kobe).

How is that Kobe but not McGrady? Kobe at his peak is one of the greatest scorers ever. He was both efficient and scoring at a high rate. McGrady never scored at the rate of Kobe and during their peak, Kobe was much more efficient. Take a look at their TS% or EFG%. It's not even close. Not to mention T-Mac probably only had 3-4 elite years while Kobe pumped up more than ten at least.

MygirlhatesCod
05-11-2017, 01:20 PM
efficiency- in no order
Curry (greatest 40,50,90 season ever)
Nash (pretty much started the whole 40,50,90)
Harden (I hate his game but numbers don't lie)
Magic (effieciency legend)
Mark price (wish he was more of a let it fly guy)

Volume/unstoppable
MJ (GOAT)
AI (he could score whenever on whoever)
Kobe (Same as AI)
KD ( he should be on the efficiency list as well)
Lebron (GOAT jr)

warfelg
05-11-2017, 01:46 PM
So my reason for this post is to essentially answer two parts.

1. Who are your top 5-10 best scorers of all-time?

2. What. Criteria do you use to decide? Do you go by volume? Efficiency? Longevity? Versatility? Difficulty to stop?

If I asked which 10 guys could score the basketball better than everyone else who would be on your list and why?

Shaq, Wilt, Kobe, MJ, Iverson, Duncan, Harden, Curry is my short list.

I start with the ability to score whenever they want. Basically it doesn't matter who you put on this guy he can get his if he wanted it.

Then I go to "wanting it". I know it's a strange thing but who wants that last shot. Hence why I don't have LBJ on here, he tends to make the right play rather than his play.

Then, another "strange" one, I use how often they get to the line. Guys that took lots of foul shots are generally very aggressive in getting their own shot.

My last one is the ability to create. A great scorer, imo, has to make his own shot. It eliminates a ton of guys, but if you don't create, you are a shooter not a scorer.

I don't use volume or efficiency when talking about this because you could bring in lots of guys efficient without high scoring or guys who do it on volume but struggle with less.

europagnpilgrim
05-11-2017, 02:13 PM
McGrady over Kobe? That's a weird one. I don't have a particular list but West/Melo/Dantley are up there in my top ten too. I would take Iverson out. He's more volume scoring than anything so I can't give him that.

Scorers/shooters usually shoot high volume of shots(volume scoring), its like a big assist guy usually over passes at a high volume so of course they rack up dimes and a great rebounder gets volume rebounds, so it would probably be wise to take everyone off the list based on how you are judging it

Iverson was unstoppable and smaller than everyone on the list by far, but he played like a 6'8'' SG according to Lebron James quote

Hawkeye15
05-11-2017, 02:28 PM
We can't penalize guys from years ago for not having advanced analytics. That being said, it should be relatively obvious that long 2 point shots are stupid attempts.

So:

-efficiency
-shot selection
-versatility (meaning can they score in different ways)

lastly, anyone mentioned better be impossible to stop 1-1...otherwise what is the point of this question?

Jordan
Wilt
West
Baylor
Durant
Iverson
Bryant
Dirk
Harden
Dantley
Oscar

FlashBolt
05-11-2017, 02:42 PM
Scorers/shooters usually shoot high volume of shots(volume scoring), its like a big assist guy usually over passes at a high volume so of course they rack up dimes and a great rebounder gets volume rebounds, so it would probably be wise to take everyone off the list based on how you are judging it

Iverson was unstoppable and smaller than everyone on the list by far, but he played like a 6'8'' SG according to Lebron James quote

Efficiency matters in scoring. Volume scoring makes sense but it also has to be a positive way to score as well. You can't just give the ball to Brandon Jennings and tell him to go score because you'll lose that way. You can tell Kobe or MJ to do that because if you add in the efficiency, it makes more sense. Teams also matter but I had to disqualify AI just because he was too inefficient for my liking.

celtNYpatsHeels
05-11-2017, 03:07 PM
Jordan
Kobe
Lebron
K Malone
Iverson
Bird
Dirk
Dominique
Reggie miller
Paul pierce (homer pick)

I left off centers... and players from the 60s and 70s because the game was so different back then

Bostonjorge
05-11-2017, 03:10 PM
Jordan and Kobe could score in more ways than anyone. KAJ mostly used his sky hook and Malone had Stockton feeding him his whole career. Kobe and Jordan did it many different ways. Both even became different types of elite scores late in their careers. The best footwork and mid range game we've seen. I take them at 1 and 2.

That deadly mid range game is what truly separates them from the rest. 11 championships combined and buzzer beaters came from that mid range game.

FlashBolt
05-11-2017, 03:18 PM
Jordan and Kobe could score in more ways than anyone. KAJ mostly used his sky hook and Malone had Stockton feeding him his whole career. Kobe and Jordan did it many different ways. Both even became different types of elite scores late in their careers. The best footwork and mid range game we've seen. I take them at 1 and 2.

That deadly mid range game is what truly separates them from the rest. 11 championships combined and buzzer beaters came from that mid range game.

That's fair. In terms of scoring ability and the moves they had, Kobe might be the GOAT in that department. There wasn't any way this guy couldn't score.

PowerHouse
05-11-2017, 04:50 PM
If we're talking about just pure scoring, just putting the ball in the hoop over and over again and nobody (good defenders included) can do a damn thing to stop him my list would be:

1. Wilt
2. Wilt
3. Wilt
4. Wilt
5. Jordan

valade16
05-11-2017, 06:29 PM
2 names I want to put out there, because I'm wondering why nobody has mentioned them yet:

Bob McAdoo
George Gervin

McAdoo led the league in scoring 3 straight seasons and George Gervin led the league in scoring 4/5 seasons and has the 3rd most years leading the league behind MJ and Wilt.

Is it because they're older so you can't rank them/don't know them? Is it because they never really won as the #1 scorer? Is it because of lack of volume or efficiency? Just curious to know reasonings.

Firefistus
05-11-2017, 07:36 PM
I guess I just don't understand this, because I would put the best scorers as the ones in the all-time score list.

Being able to play for long amounts of time DOES contribute to being able to score. So it only goes to say that Kareem is number 1 with over 20 years in the league, Malone at 2 with 18 etc. So here's my list.

1 Kareem 38,387
2 Karl Malone 36,928
3 Kobe Bryant 33,643
4 Michael Jordan 32,292
5 Wilt Chamberlain 31,419
6 DIRK NOWITZKI 30,260
7 LeBRON JAMES 28,787
8 Shaquille O'Neal 28,596
9 Moses Malone 27,409
10 Elvin Hayes 27,313
11 Hakeem Olajuwon 26,946
12 Oscar Robertson 26,710
13 Dominique Wilkins 26,668
14 Tim Duncan 26,496
15 PAUL PIERCE 26,397

Call me boring, but these are the best scorers ever.

valade16
05-11-2017, 08:22 PM
I take into account PER, TS%, versatility, and difficulty to stop more or less evenly.

Curry
Jordan
O'neal
Chamberlain
Robinson
Bird
Gilmore
Durant
Bryant
Thompson


11-15:

McGrady
Paul
James
Barkley
Harden

Is that David Thompson (who would be a very good obscure call-out as he was a fantastic scorer), or Klay Thompson?

valade16
05-11-2017, 08:23 PM
McGrady over Kobe? That's a weird one. I don't have a particular list but West/Melo/Dantley are up there in my top ten too. I would take Iverson out. He's more volume scoring than anything so I can't give him that.

I was surprised to see both have led the league in scoring the same # of times (2).

valade16
05-11-2017, 08:27 PM
We can't penalize guys from years ago for not having advanced analytics. That being said, it should be relatively obvious that long 2 point shots are stupid attempts.

So:

-efficiency
-shot selection
-versatility (meaning can they score in different ways)

lastly, anyone mentioned better be impossible to stop 1-1...otherwise what is the point of this question?

Jordan
Wilt
West
Baylor
Durant
Iverson
Bryant
Dirk
Harden
Dantley
Oscar

Nice West, Baylor, Big O and Dantley references. Do you think Dantley was the best scorer out of Gervin, English, Nique and King?

valade16
05-11-2017, 08:30 PM
I guess I just don't understand this, because I would put the best scorers as the ones in the all-time score list.

Being able to play for long amounts of time DOES contribute to being able to score. So it only goes to say that Kareem is number 1 with over 20 years in the league, Malone at 2 with 18 etc. So here's my list.

1 Kareem 38,387
2 Karl Malone 36,928
3 Kobe Bryant 33,643
4 Michael Jordan 32,292
5 Wilt Chamberlain 31,419
6 DIRK NOWITZKI 30,260
7 LeBRON JAMES 28,787
8 Shaquille O'Neal 28,596
9 Moses Malone 27,409
10 Elvin Hayes 27,313
11 Hakeem Olajuwon 26,946
12 Oscar Robertson 26,710
13 Dominique Wilkins 26,668
14 Tim Duncan 26,496
15 PAUL PIERCE 26,397

Call me boring, but these are the best scorers ever.

In that specific order? Do you think Karl Malone was a better scorer than a Michael Jordan?

Quinnsanity
05-11-2017, 08:36 PM
But that's Kobe, and that's why Iverson is last on my list and why I have Mcgrady over him(Kobe).

Last on a list of seven tacitly implies that he's seventh on a list of thousands, which is ludicrous. Allen Iverson is not the seventh best scorer in NBA history. And don't say you mentioned then centers. He's not the 11th best scorer either.

valade16
05-11-2017, 08:39 PM
Last on a list of seven tacitly implies that he's seventh on a list of thousands, which is ludicrous. Allen Iverson is not the seventh best scorer in NBA history. And don't say you mentioned then centers. He's not the 11th best scorer either.

I'm actually shocked to see how consistently AI is mentioned, he's on virtually every list. Just surprising considering AI is generally hated on this site.

One Nut Kruk
05-11-2017, 09:05 PM
Is that David Thompson (who would be a very good obscure call-out as he was a fantastic scorer), or Klay Thompson?

Look at who you're asking. Who do you think he means?

FlashBolt
05-11-2017, 09:51 PM
Whoever had James Harden on your list.. please not only delete that post but delete your account.

flea
05-11-2017, 09:59 PM
No order:

Jordan
Bird
Kareem
Hakeem
Duncan
McHale
Dirk
Barkley
Kobe
Shaq

To be a great scorer you've got to be a guy who can get your team a bucket, double or no. All those guys above proved they could. There are a lot of good scorers in NBA history but it takes a combination of skill and talent to be among the best. Someone like Reggie Miller or Curry might have great numbers but they're more playmakers and off-ball threats than they are legit NBA scorers.

We're watching what happens to a limited scorer right now - the Rockets need Harden to put up 30 in this game and IDK if he's even broken 10 in the 4th quarter. I think it's absolutely fitting to consider him a PG because he's way more of a playmaker than a guy that can get you a bucket when you need it.

flea
05-11-2017, 10:05 PM
Nice West, Baylor, Big O and Dantley references. Do you think Dantley was the best scorer out of Gervin, English, Nique and King?

I only watched old games of them but I'd say Gervin. He was really smooth, almost like Kawhi. I've heard old guys compare him to Durant but I think he's more decisive than Durant, like Kawhi.

As far as other old guys Rick Barry and Hondo should definitely be mentioned above those 80s guys - especially Barry. His NBA championship wasn't even in his prime, he just happened to play in a weird era where it was all about the money (I mean it still is but ABA was like modern NBA where your stars just go and up and down). And Pistol Pete has kind of a sad NBA story but if there is anything he could do it was score - maybe too well. Clyde Frazier too was a heavily respected scorer, but is remembered more as an all-around player.

europagnpilgrim
05-11-2017, 10:06 PM
Efficiency matters in scoring. Volume scoring makes sense but it also has to be a positive way to score as well. You can't just give the ball to Brandon Jennings and tell him to go score because you'll lose that way. You can tell Kobe or MJ to do that because if you add in the efficiency, it makes more sense. Teams also matter but I had to disqualify AI just because he was too inefficient for my liking.

You can give the ball to AI and tell him to score and he will win a game/series single handed, nothing Jennings has ever shown outside of his famous 55pt or so game I think his rookie season, once again you make a lame comparison with AI vs Jennings like you did comparing Tyreke to Lebron as being franchise dominant players because they avg the same ppg rookie yr, if teams matter then you should most definitely hold AI in high regard seeing he played with 6-7ppg career scorers in Mckie/Snow for 7 core years, how efficient were those two guys as his second/third options? I get you can like what you feel but damn at least know the surroundings, its a reason why AI shot his highest field goal pct in his 12th season playing with the best player he ever played with in Melo, pretty sure his efficiency would have been better if he had HOF'ers surrounding him his first 10yrs in philly, quite easily if you know anything about basketball