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View Full Version : Blow-up or Buy-in



Scoots
05-10-2017, 11:15 AM
Raptors: Is there any way this team constructed this way can be the best team in the East in the next 2 years? If not how can they give Lowry a huge contract?

Clippers: CP3 and Griffin and Reddick ... pay them and this team can't change for the next 5 years. They are not going to get healthier over the years.

OKC: How can they get a system and players around Westbrook to win enough to challenge?

Blazers: Lillard and CJ are great, Nurkic had a good month ... is that enough? The team is set to be broke for a long time with a bunch of role players they hope are going to transform.

Hawks: Max Millsap? Then what?

Pacers: Are they going to waste the rest of PGs career? Can they win now or develop their youth and hope to win in a few years? And if it's in a few then why not blow it up now and get all they can for the vets on the roster now?

Bulls: Butler is great. Nobody seems to have any consensus on any of the remaining talent on that roster.

FlashBolt
05-10-2017, 11:27 AM
Raptors: Blow up. You won't win with Lowry against LeBron. Do what the Sixers are doing and plan against LeBron when he's getting older. Raptors are trying to do it NOW and it's slowing down any development they have.

Clippers: Blow up. Hasn't worked for five seasons.. ain't suddenly going to work as your players have gotten worse while teams have gotten better.

OKC: We just need shooters and another all-star capable guy who can score without needing Westy. Our problem mainly fell with shooting. We have the interior/rebounding but the guys just can't shoot. Implement a system like Rockets and we can't add an all-star with Kanter+Oladipo+Adams but we hopefully some moron team takes Oladipo+Kanter away from us. In the worst case, we can always just wait for Kanter's contract to expire next season.

Blazers: With Nurkic, they are significantly better. Probably should give it another season as it is.

Hawks: They're stuck with Dwight so there's that.. they'll never win.

Pacers: He's gone. I don't think he's going to the Clippers because he used to date Doc's daughter or something but I don't see him staying.

Bulls: Depends on what Wade does. They need shooters and a deeper bench. The team is filled with high school kids and three veterans. It's really not a good team at all. Surprisingly, good enough to go 2-0 vs the Celtics but against the Cavs? They'll be too easy to guard against since they can't shoot.

Heediot
05-10-2017, 11:51 AM
Bottom two blow up.

Clippers try to add Melo and give it another shot.

Raptors, keep as much assets as you can and keep on drafting well and hope you find that gem later in the draft that can catapult the franchise. There have been franchise changers later in the draft too, doesn't have to be a lottery pick.

OKC, ATL, Por- Keep on building.

It appears to me it would be a 4 team league, and the rest of the league should rebuild according to the consensus on psd lolol. Let's just trade everyone to GS/Cle/SA/Bos/Hou and load up on picks/prospects/cap room.

LA4life24/8
05-10-2017, 12:17 PM
Its hard not to say blow it up to all these teams lol mainly cuz no one is competing w the warriors or cavs for the forseeable future

But teams like the clips dont have a choice but to buy in, i mean before this core were they ever relevant? Will they ever be again/how long will it take for them to be again?

This can be said for a lot of these teams.

Thunder i dont see how you get rid of a generational talent such as westy. You wont get an even return.

Hawks are prolly stuck w dwight so thats unfortunate

Raptors need better 3 pt shooting but i dont see how they can get good enough to give cavs a fight

Pacers might not have a choice but to trwde pg or likely loose him to Fa

Blazers maybe shop CJ? Him n lillard are too similar but they have a lot of not so grear contracts might be moot

Bulls- id bring wade and rondo back. They looked like they coulda beat that celtics team if rondo didnt get hurt. But they need some shooters as well

Vee-Rex
05-10-2017, 12:25 PM
Love the topic, Scoots.

Raptors - Blow it up. Lowry should not be maxed and should be let go (I was advocating that they trade him before the deadline but I got shot down for that). There's no future with Lowry - too inconsistent, injury prone, and old. Expecting a sharp regular season decline for him soon.

Ibaka is supposedly 27 years old but it's more like he's 31 or 32. Do not sign him to a big contract.

I like DD. He's still young and I believe he could be a superstar but only if he improves his passing ability (especially out of traps/double teams) and 3-point shooting. You wanna be the head honcho? You gotta be able to beat any defense. If DD can't rise up to the challenge then I'd trade him too.

Clippers - Blow it up. The injury bug isn't gonna get any better as CP3 starts aging and the West looks as formidable as ever. Unfortunately, dudes can opt out and they might not get anything in return. Griffin should've been traded already.

OKC - Buy in. All the way. Westbrook is a superstar and I love some of the pieces around him. They really have a strong supporting cast, they just need more top/superstar talent. Bring in more high end talent (somehow) and they'll be competing in the West.

Blazers - Semi-blow it up. I'd look to move Lillard or CJ for a huge return and obviously keep the other and Nurkic. Warriors moved forward after getting rid of Monta, perhaps it'll be work similarly for Portland

Hawks - Blow it up. Howard needs to go, Millsap is 32 years old and should not be signed to a big contract. Keep Schroeder and THJ and look to improve through the draft.

Pacers - Blow it up. I love George but he's not content with things in Indy. His playoff performance was fun but he's obviously coasting too hard through the regular season - it's a sign of frustration and not caring. If you can find a way to trade him you'll net a huge haul, otherwise he'll just walk and you won't get anything. Look to rebuild in the draft.

Bulls - I'd actually suggest buying in. I think Wade will be leaving, if not this coming year then the following. Surround Butler with shooters and more talent. Rondo is a bit of a conundrum but I'd be willing to keep him around for if he's willing to extend the contract without getting paid more.

Oakmont_4
05-10-2017, 12:34 PM
Raptors: Is there any way this team constructed this way can be the best team in the East in the next 2 years? If not how can they give Lowry a huge contract?

No. But I don't think blowing it up helps either. They need to keep winning, heading back to the cellar of the Eastern Conference is a long term death sentence. They shouldn't pay Lowry. But they can't lose him for nothing. I expect they explore a S&T that benefits both parties and gets Lowry to the West.


Clippers: CP3 and Griffin and Reddick ... pay them and this team can't change for the next 5 years. They are not going to get healthier over the years.

This core won't work. But they're in cap hell with no assets so blowing it up sets them back 5 years. I think Griffin is the one who needs to go, he's been the weak link (figuratively and literally) over the years. I think a last ditch effort with a S&T for Melo or something of the like is really their only option. They can't let CP3 walk. Reddick isn't important, but he's a chip they also need to use to add something to this team.


OKC: How can they get a system and players around Westbrook to win enough to challenge?

It's not going to be easy. They have some real bad contracts for average players. They couldn't win with Durant and players like Durant aren't just walking around Free Agency every year. It's unfortunate their ownership couldn't just spend the money and keep the team together. I think it'll be more of the same in the coming years. Patch it together on the cheap to be relevant but never good enough to win it all. I feel bad for Westbrook.


Blazers: Lillard and CJ are great, Nurkic had a good month ... is that enough? The team is set to be broke for a long time with a bunch of role players they hope are going to transform.

Definitely keep building on this core. A full year of Nurkic will help. Too bad they wasted their money on Turner and Crabbe. It's really hamstringing them now.


Hawks: Max Millsap? Then what?

They're stuck with Dwight so might as well try to keep Millsap. Same ol same ol here. Perennial #4-5 seed and first round exit for the foreseeable future.


Pacers: Are they going to waste the rest of PGs career? Can they win now or develop their youth and hope to win in a few years? And if it's in a few then why not blow it up now and get all they can for the vets on the roster now?

Don't "blow it up" but they should maximize their return for PG. Build around Turner. Draft well, keep building.


Bulls: Butler is great. Nobody seems to have any consensus on any of the remaining talent on that roster.

Should have blown it up last year. Have to hope Wade opts out. Let Rondo walk. Trade Butler. Start over. I see no way of making that trio relevant. Wade and Rondo are bridge pieces but they have nothing behind them. They need too many pieces to get in one offseason.

mngopher35
05-10-2017, 12:51 PM
Clips/raps - hard to blow it up but likely can't compete with their core against the top teams. I think both are kinda stuck trying to keep things together atm.

Okc/Portland - some bad contracts but pieces to build around are there lilliard/McCollum/nirkic and westy/Adams. Tbh this might just come down to what the assets you have can get as both have bad contracts. I can see going either route I guess with these guys because they are so far from gs. Really hard to see westy or lilliard going anywhere though so likely they just keep building.

Bulls/pacers/Atlanta: blow it up, Pacers rebuild around turner and bulls just start over with assets from butler. Atlanta is just stuck in the middle and with Dwight getting paid and milsap a fa it might be time to rebuild some on the fly with a down year or two collecting assets.

Pfeifer
05-10-2017, 12:52 PM
Raps : they swung and missed with Ibaka. I would let Ibaka, Lowry and Casey go. Try and unload Caroll and resign Tucker. Losing Ross really hurt their shooting IMO. One could suggest going all in and bringing in an offensive coach to see what happens but its Lowry running the ISO offense IMO.

JOSKOMANG4
05-10-2017, 01:26 PM
Raptors: Is there any way this team constructed this way can be the best team in the East in the next 2 years? If not how can they give Lowry a huge contract? I would let Lowry walk. This draft is loaded with PG's, not to mention you have 2-serviceable PG's on your roster with Joseph & Wright.

Clippers: CP3 and Griffin and Reddick ... pay them and this team can't change for the next 5 years. They are not going to get healthier over the years. Resign CP3. Let both Reddick & Griffin walk. Maybe work out a trade to get Melo in LAC. A lineup of Jordan-??-Melo-Crawford-CP3. W/Rivers as the 6th man.

OKC: How can they get a system and players around Westbrook to win enough to challenge? Keep the squad in tact. I would resign Taj Gibson(great compliment to both Kanter & Adams). Don't overpay for Andre Roberson. Look for a veteran SF version on the cheap in FA.

Blazers: Lillard and CJ are great, Nurkic had a good month ... is that enough? The team is set to be broke for a long time with a bunch of role players they hope are going to transform. KEEP IN TACT.
LOOK FOR VETERAN'S TO FILL THE ROSTER. POSSIBLY TRADE ONE OF THEIR OVERPAID SF'S(HARKLESS,
TURNER, CRABBE) FOR A VETERAN PF. MAYBE A THADDEUS YOUNG FROM INDY? MAYBE GO TO THE NYK AND OFFER THEIR 3-1ST RD PICKS & FILLERS FOR PORZINGIS? A LINEUP OF NURKIC/PORZINGIS/HARKLESS/MCCOLLUM/LILLARD

Hawks: Max Millsap? Then what? Let Milsap walk. Bring in a stretch 4 that will compliment Dwight Howard.

Pacers: Are they going to waste the rest of PGs career? Can they win now or develop their youth and hope to win in a few years? And if it's in a few then why not blow it up now and get all they can for the vets on the roster now? BLOW IT UP. They could receive a kings ransom for Paul George. I'd ask any team to also take the contract of Monta Ellis. I worked out a three way deal w/both Minnesota & the Lakers. Lakers would receive Paul George, Monta, Ellis, and N.Pekovic. Wolves would receive Nick Young, L.Deng, and the Rockets 2017 1st rd pick. Pacers would receive D.Russell & Brandon Ingram. They could start fresh w/two promising athletes. With the additional cap they had received from trading away Monta Ellis, they could look to build around these guys.

Bulls: Butler is great. Nobody seems to have any consensus on any of the remaining talent on that roster. BLOW IT UP. W/Wade possibly opting out and Ronda being bought out, they could look into trading Jimmy Butler to a team willing to offer kings ransom. They might even able to include Robin Lopez's contract in any deal! As a celtics fan, i'd offer G A.Bradley, G/F J.Brown, 2018 Brooklyn Pick & 2019 Right to swap pick w/Brooklyn in exchanged for Jimmy Butler & Robin Lopez. Celtics Lineup of Lopez/Horford/Butler/Smart/Thomas would help increase their chances of coming out of the Eastern Conference. As for the Bulls, they start fresh,

mrblisterdundee
05-10-2017, 03:55 PM
Raptors: Is there any way this team constructed this way can be the best team in the East in the next 2 years? If not how can they give Lowry a huge contract?
Clippers: CP3 and Griffin and Reddick ... pay them and this team can't change for the next 5 years. They are not going to get healthier over the years.
OKC: How can they get a system and players around Westbrook to win enough to challenge?
Blazers: Lillard and CJ are great, Nurkic had a good month ... is that enough? The team is set to be broke for a long time with a bunch of role players they hope are going to transform.
Hawks: Max Millsap? Then what?
Pacers: Are they going to waste the rest of PGs career? Can they win now or develop their youth and hope to win in a few years? And if it's in a few then why not blow it up now and get all they can for the vets on the roster now?
Bulls: Butler is great. Nobody seems to have any consensus on any of the remaining talent on that roster.

You're making this way too black-and-white. Most of the teams listed can't just blow it up, based on their contracts. Of those listed, I would say the Thunder, Bulls and Pacers are in a decent position to trade their lone alphas and hit restart.

Oakmont_4
05-10-2017, 04:07 PM
You're making this way too black-and-white. Most of the teams listed can't just blow it up, based on their contracts. Of those listed, I would say the Thunder, Bulls and Pacers are in a decent position to trade their lone alphas and hit restart.

Agreed

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-10-2017, 05:32 PM
Raptors: Is there any way this team constructed this way can be the best team in the East in the next 2 years? If not how can they give Lowry a huge contract?

Clippers: CP3 and Griffin and Reddick ... pay them and this team can't change for the next 5 years. They are not going to get healthier over the years.

OKC: How can they get a system and players around Westbrook to win enough to challenge?

Blazers: Lillard and CJ are great, Nurkic had a good month ... is that enough? The team is set to be broke for a long time with a bunch of role players they hope are going to transform.

Hawks: Max Millsap? Then what?

Pacers: Are they going to waste the rest of PGs career? Can they win now or develop their youth and hope to win in a few years? And if it's in a few then why not blow it up now and get all they can for the vets on the roster now?

Bulls: Butler is great. Nobody seems to have any consensus on any of the remaining talent on that roster.

I noticed while googling for nba trade rumors that Lakers are ready to cough up multiple youngster for PG13. I didn't click the site. Not sure if true or not. Could of been a click bait site. Could be possible since PG13 already said if Pacers don't start winning soon he'd consider Lakers as a free agent down the line.

Scoots
05-10-2017, 05:52 PM
You're making this way too black-and-white. Most of the teams listed can't just blow it up, based on their contracts. Of those listed, I would say the Thunder, Bulls and Pacers are in a decent position to trade their lone alphas and hit restart.

Sure, but that's what sports talk is :)

That said, it did start an interesting conversation, not you'll note most people are not approaching it as black and white.

Scoots
05-10-2017, 06:01 PM
OKC: We just need shooters and another all-star capable guy who can score without needing Westy. Our problem mainly fell with shooting. We have the interior/rebounding but the guys just can't shoot. Implement a system like Rockets and we can't add an all-star with Kanter+Oladipo+Adams but we hopefully some moron team takes Oladipo+Kanter away from us. In the worst case, we can always just wait for Kanter's contract to expire next season.

That's a lot easier said than done. Oladipo+Kanter for a shooter like Reddick in a S&T (would maybe help the Clippers prep for other moves too) would be possble maybe, but would that be close to enough to make a significant difference to OKC? It's hard to find "another all-star capable guy who can score without needing Westy". And as for running a system like the Rockets offense ... will Westy do that ... and without having the shooting that Houston has?

The Thunder are one of the more complex "issues" out there since the roster is mostly set, and has issues in that the game doesn't really fit them all together. I'd compare them to the mid 200s Pistons. But there is no Rip or Sheed to take some of the scoring load, and no backup guards to take the ball out of Westy's hands ... at least Billups had a lot of PGs behind him even if the best of them was just Arroyo.

IKnowHoops
05-10-2017, 09:18 PM
Unless LBJ or any two of the big 4 in GS get injured, the right move for everyone is to blow it up and set yourself up through the draft to be where the Wolves are in five years. Which puts you about 7 years from contending. The next 4 years is going to be Cavs and GS in the finals.

Brown will have 11 straight finals appearances lol...GOAT

TrueFan420
05-10-2017, 09:55 PM
I'd like to focus on the Blazers:

They got some great pieces and some questionmarks. They have Lillard, CJ as their two main guys. Then Nurkic as a questionmark. Can he repeat what he's done. Those are their 3 main pieces.

Obviously they over committed to Crabbe/Turner at 17+ mill each and Harkless/Leornad at 10 mill each all till 2020. It's easy to say try and move them but they can't without significant cost.

They have 3 first rounders. And two expiring contracts at 7 (Ezeli) and 6 (Ed Davis) million. So they have some ammo.

Id look to move CJ with a pick and try and upgrade. Id target Butler or PG as both would significantly upgrade their defense and not miss a beat offensively. They should also be in market for a PF (ATL and milsap would be my first call) and can use the rest of the picks/expirings to try and make a move. If their lucky they can find a taker on one of the 4 bad contracts for another bad contract but better fit.

Scoots
05-10-2017, 11:08 PM
I'd like to focus on the Blazers:

They got some great pieces and some questionmarks. They have Lillard, CJ as their two main guys. Then Nurkic as a questionmark. Can he repeat what he's done. Those are their 3 main pieces.

Obviously they over committed to Crabbe/Turner at 17+ mill each and Harkless/Leornad at 10 mill each all till 2020. It's easy to say try and move them but they can't without significant cost.

They have 3 first rounders. And two expiring contracts at 7 (Ezeli) and 6 (Ed Davis) million. So they have some ammo.

Id look to move CJ with a pick and try and upgrade. Id target Butler or PG as both would significantly upgrade their defense and not miss a beat offensively. They should also be in market for a PF (ATL and milsap would be my first call) and can use the rest of the picks/expirings to try and make a move. If their lucky they can find a taker on one of the 4 bad contracts for another bad contract but better fit.

It seems strange to trade their star SG and a pick for yet another mid-size player, but I agree to your suggestion. Lillard, PG, Harkless, Millsap, Nurkic with Crabbe and Turner off the bench doesn't sound bad at all.

Quinnsanity
05-10-2017, 11:15 PM
Raptors: Is there any way this team constructed this way can be the best team in the East in the next 2 years? If not how can they give Lowry a huge contract?

No chance to beat Cleveland in the foreseeable future. Blow **** up. I can't think of a good destination for DeMar though. That's the one issue. Maybe Denver? He could functionally play point guard with Jokic's passing serving as the primary source of playmaking. That's not a good answer, but there isn't really a great fit for a player like DeMar anymore. He's just good enough that you can't tank with him. Maybe you could sucker the Clippers into trading for him if the **** hits the fan for them? Like if CP3, Blake and Redick all left, maybe they could go to Doc and be like "with DeMar and DeAndre you could still compete..." which is a ludicrous statement, but GM Doc is dumb enough to consider it. Otherwise... Orlando maybe? Depending on how desperate they are to win now (and we don't even know who their GM is going to be)? Memphis if they just want another ball-handler, but the pick cost would have to be big if Toronto is taking back Parsons. Otherwise I'm grasping. There's not a good place for him.


Clippers: CP3 and Griffin and Reddick ... pay them and this team can't change for the next 5 years. They are not going to get healthier over the years.

No chance to beat the Warriors over the next few years. Blow **** up. Their pick situation is a lot better than anyone gives it credit for because we've only viewed it in the context of a contender. As a tanking team, they're in great shape. The only pick they don't have is 2019, but that pick is lottery protected, so if they actively tried to tank they'd keep it. That pick never loses its protection, it turns into two second rounders after 2020. So they could slide into a tank really easily, and DeAndre would fetch a ton in a trade. Boston would love him. Denver is another candidate if they want to get funky with their lineups. Phoenix could get in there. The Bulls would love him in a post-Rondo/Wade world (we'll get to them). Charlotte, Washington, Houston, Portland and even Dallas would sniff around the situation. They could do this pretty quickly. If they get a few picks right, get some nice assets for DeAndre and maintain their cap flexibility this could be a smooth rebuild.

But lol, Doc won't rebuild, so they're gonna fade into obscurity slowly rather than jump there intentionally and with some dignity.


OKC: How can they get a system and players around Westbrook to win enough to challenge?

They couldn't win the title when Durant was on THEIR team. Now he's on the Warriors. Everyone's saying "oh, they just need some shooting," "oh, they just need another star," well how the **** are they going to get those things? They're capped out and don't really have trade assets unless they dip into their meaningful players. Adams would fetch a nice trade return, but they'd actually want Adams. Forget about the Warriors, I don't see a scenario where OKC beats Houston or San Antonio in the near future, and young teams like Portland, Minnesota, New Orleans and Phoenix are only going to rise. I'd bet that the Thunder don't make it past the first round with this group. Blow **** up. Get a bunch for Russ. You've already lost two generational stars with little to show for it. Don't let a third walk away.


Blazers: Lillard and CJ are great, Nurkic had a good month ... is that enough? The team is set to be broke for a long time with a bunch of role players they hope are going to transform.

Nurkic was a revelation for them, and they have three first round picks. I would at least try to package all of those picks to see what they can get. If they could turn No. 15, No. 20 and No. 26 into like No. 9 they could get a shot at a potential core piece. Or they could combine those picks to try to get a vet. Hell, maybe take on a high-upside reclamation project. Miami soared when Justise Winslow went out. If Portland offered them a bunch for him they'd probably think about it. If they could teach him to shoot he's exactly the kind of player they need, especially considering he's on a rookie deal. Hell, the worst case scenario is just making those picks, taking three high-upside players and hope one turns into a good starter or better.

There's just not an immediate need to answer this question for Portland. Lillard and McCollum are locked in for several more years. The roster is young enough to improve. They're going to be capped out going forward regardless. There's no harm in bringing this group back for a year, seeing how they do with Nurkic over a bigger sample and then asking these questions with a bit more clarity next summer. The trade market for Lillard and/or McCollum is not going away.

The one drastic move I would consider is McCollum for Butler or George. It's a risk, no question, but adding a defensive wing of that caliber without sacrificing much scoring would be really tempting, and the trading team would get CJ's long-term contract rather than risk losing either of those two in free agency. I don't know if you can win a title with two guards this bad on defense. I'm open to finding out, but if there's a chance to punt on the question entirely without throwing away the basic structure of the team, I'd go for it.


Hawks: Max Millsap? Then what?

Even with Millsap they were a No. 5 seed that finished the year badly. Schroder is barely a starting PG. Dwight doesn't seem happy. Bazemore is a sunk cost. I don't see what the upside in keeping this team together is. You have a great coach in Budenholzer and have two promising rookies already on the roster. Few teams should feel better about tanking than Atlanta considering their player development infrastructure.


Pacers: Are they going to waste the rest of PGs career? Can they win now or develop their youth and hope to win in a few years? And if it's in a few then why not blow it up now and get all they can for the vets on the roster now?

Could see this one go either way. Whichever direction they do choose, though, I hope they go all in with it.

If they really are committed to keeping George, they could actually create a fair bit of cap space this summer. Stretch Al Jefferson and it's over the 10-year max. I doubt that CP3 or Lowry considers them, but hey, make the call. On a more realistic level, they desperately need shooting. Redick is out there. They could pay him $20 million in the first year and still have enough leftover to retain Jeff Teague's cap hold (a bit over $13 million). Teague-Redick-George is a really diverse 1-3 that fits well together. I wish Thad Young shot more three's, but at least he'll take open ones. That's an interesting little core, but still not a contender. Could you make it one if you dangled Myles Turner in trade talks though? What would New Orleans say if you called them and offered Turner and salary flotsam (Monta Ellis being the biggest name in there) for Boogie? Or if the Clippers blow up, could you go grab DeAndre with Turner as the bait? I'm not saying Teague-Redick-George-Thad-Boogie/DeAndre beats Cleveland, but that's an interesting group to say the least. It's not the path I'd go, but if they really are dead set on keeping George, this is a path that makes some sense.

I'd probably blow it up though. Turner has enough promise to be a potential cornerstone for the next great Pacers team, but isn't good enough yet to prevent you from tanking. Let's say the best case scenario comes about with the Lakers at 3 and the Celtics at 4 (so neither can get Ball or Fultz and therefore might be more inclined to trade, but both keep their picks). You could play those teams against each other for a nice return. Maybe you get No. 3 and Russell for George from the Lakers because they know that if they don't make that trade, the Celtics will offer No. 4, Marcus Smart and another pick and likely get him. Yea, you'd ideally like to sign George as a free agent, but letting him get traded elsewhere is a huge risk. What if he falls in love with Boston? Then you don't get him at all. Trading that much for George when he might sign with you anyway is a tough pill to swallow, but the added benefit is that it helps clear some extra cap space for 2018. If they wanted to chase Westbrook, having George in the fold already would be helpful and they'd have a tough (but not impossible) time fitting both of them in if they also have Russell and their 2017 pick on the books (both Mozgov and Deng would have to be traded, which will be difficult as well). How does a future of, say, D'Angelo Russell, Josh Jackson, Myles Turner and a year or two of high lottery picks sound? Not bad right?


Bulls: Butler is great. Nobody seems to have any consensus on any of the remaining talent on that roster.

Like Indiana, there are two paths they could take.

If they want to keep Butler, they have to quit ****ing around. Stop putting him out there in trade talks, have a press conference where you openly say "Jimmy is our franchise player, we are committed to him, he is not being traded, we want to build a champion around him." Amazingly the Bulls have never remotely said this. But anyway, next year's team is pretty much locked into mediocrity if Wade and Rondo come back, but 2018-19 is another story. They'll have two max slots to use that summer if they play their cards right. Having Butler onboard already gets them a meeting with anyone they want. I'm not saying they have a chance at George, Westbrook or Cousins, but they'd at least get in the room with them, and if they missed, still end up with something nice. What if they tried to lure the two Spurs FA's, Aldridge and Green, along with a point guard (Beverley?). They could try to steal DeAndre, they could build around high-end role players around Butler, the options are pretty limitless. It's an interesting thought, and if the Bulls really do want to build around Butler this is the path.

But I don't think the Bulls actually do want to keep Butler. I think there's probably a battle between the basketball people who want to trade him and ownership which is notoriously stingy and cares as much about ticket sales as they do on-court product. And hey, they could get a ton for Butler. Every team in the league except Golden State would call and at least ask about him. I think they ultimately do trade him.

TrueFan420
05-10-2017, 11:26 PM
It seems strange to trade their star SG and a pick for yet another mid-size player, but I agree to your suggestion. Lillard, PG, Harkless, Millsap, Nurkic with Crabbe and Turner off the bench doesn't sound bad at all.

CJ is 6'4. He's a great scorer but poor defender. Butler is 6'7 and PG is 6'9 both can score but are far better defenders and larger/longer. They'd fit next to Lilard much better. Similar to Klay working better next to Curry than Ellis did. Yes the players are all different but the key similarities are there.

da ThRONe
05-10-2017, 11:41 PM
The Clippers have no choice to try and reup with Paul and Griffin or they can walk for free and the Clippers are back to being the Clippers. The problem with the Clips isn't overall talent it's been remaining healthy that probably worth doubling down on.


I think the Blazers are best off selling McCollum and starting Crabbe at SG. Hopefully sell on Leonard, Evans and Harkless also to create space. They commit way too cap on basically the same position.

Raptors are in a tough spot and it may be blow it up time for them. It just makes far too little sense to give Lowry a 5 year max. At some point GMs are going to have to start making cap smart decision and not just handing out max deals simply because a player is 1a or 1b on the team. Ibaka has max talent and within the ideal age range but he doesn't play to his talent level and therefore shouldn't get a max deal. Derozan may just end up being the trade bait to jumpstart a rebuild.

Hawks is another example where the front office shouldn't be giving a B+ player a max. You offer Millsap something decent and when he turns it down you bid him farewell. And use that cap space to match whatever for Hardaway Jr. You try to build on the backcourt of THJ and Schroeder. Howard you hope can come around.

Bulls are another team that has something out of there control. But if Wade opts out a rebuild is also probably there best bet. Starting with freeing themselves of Rondo non guaranteed contract. Then trading Bulter to the highest bidder.

OKC isn't too far off. Moving Kanter is key. If they can't get a Butler or George in trade or a Millsap or Griffin via FA I think Gay might not be a bad investment if he's willing to take a prove it deal. You hope Oladipo can find some consistency unless you have to move him to get a better wing.

Indy is tricky. PG right now is a A- player that's right on the max cut off line. Can George be the best player on a title team? That can go either way.

Scoots
05-10-2017, 11:49 PM
CJ is 6'4. He's a great scorer but poor defender. Butler is 6'7 and PG is 6'9 both can score but are far better defenders and larger/longer. They'd fit next to Lilard much better. Similar to Klay working better next to Curry than Ellis did. Yes the players are all different but the key similarities are there.

By "yet another mid-size player" I meant that they are already are paying Aminu, Turner, Harkless, and Crabbe all in the 6'6" to 6'9" size range ... not CJ.

More-Than-Most
05-11-2017, 12:08 AM
holy **** because of this thread i just learned ibaka is 27 and not 34 xD

More-Than-Most
05-11-2017, 12:10 AM
Raptors... Should have traded Lowry.... Now just let him walk and maybe try for cp3?

Pacers... trade george asap and blow it up

Portland... Build a time machine and go back and dont do the dumb **** you did last off season... Trade CJ and start crabbe

OKC just needs to build around westy.

Bulls should blow it up as well.

More-Than-Most
05-11-2017, 12:11 AM
what I find mind boggeling is... If you are a GM you should have information and people at your disposal... So how does one sign turn/crabbe/mosgod/deng etc etc etc to those deals? HOW?

TheMightyHumph
05-11-2017, 12:23 AM
Raptors: Is there any way this team constructed this way can be the best team in the East in the next 2 years? If not how can they give Lowry a huge contract? I would let Lowry walk. This draft is loaded with PG's, not to mention you have 2-serviceable PG's on your roster with Joseph & Wright.

Clippers: CP3 and Griffin and Reddick ... pay them and this team can't change for the next 5 years. They are not going to get healthier over the years. Resign CP3. Let both Reddick & Griffin walk. Maybe work out a trade to get Melo in LAC. A lineup of Jordan-??-Melo-Crawford-CP3. W/Rivers as the 6th man.

OKC: How can they get a system and players around Westbrook to win enough to challenge? Keep the squad in tact. I would resign Taj Gibson(great compliment to both Kanter & Adams). Don't overpay for Andre Roberson. Look for a veteran SF version on the cheap in FA.

Blazers: Lillard and CJ are great, Nurkic had a good month ... is that enough? The team is set to be broke for a long time with a bunch of role players they hope are going to transform. KEEP IN TACT.
LOOK FOR VETERAN'S TO FILL THE ROSTER. POSSIBLY TRADE ONE OF THEIR OVERPAID SF'S(HARKLESS,
TURNER, CRABBE) FOR A VETERAN PF. MAYBE A THADDEUS YOUNG FROM INDY? MAYBE GO TO THE NYK AND OFFER THEIR 3-1ST RD PICKS & FILLERS FOR PORZINGIS? A LINEUP OF NURKIC/PORZINGIS/HARKLESS/MCCOLLUM/LILLARD

Hawks: Max Millsap? Then what? Let Milsap walk. Bring in a stretch 4 that will compliment Dwight Howard.

Pacers: Are they going to waste the rest of PGs career? Can they win now or develop their youth and hope to win in a few years? And if it's in a few then why not blow it up now and get all they can for the vets on the roster now? BLOW IT UP. They could receive a kings ransom for Paul George. I'd ask any team to also take the contract of Monta Ellis. I worked out a three way deal w/both Minnesota & the Lakers. Lakers would receive Paul George, Monta, Ellis, and N.Pekovic. Wolves would receive Nick Young, L.Deng, and the Rockets 2017 1st rd pick. Pacers would receive D.Russell & Brandon Ingram. They could start fresh w/two promising athletes. With the additional cap they had received from trading away Monta Ellis, they could look to build around these guys.

Bulls: Butler is great. Nobody seems to have any consensus on any of the remaining talent on that roster. BLOW IT UP. W/Wade possibly opting out and Ronda being bought out, they could look into trading Jimmy Butler to a team willing to offer kings ransom. They might even able to include Robin Lopez's contract in any deal! As a celtics fan, i'd offer G A.Bradley, G/F J.Brown, 2018 Brooklyn Pick & 2019 Right to swap pick w/Brooklyn in exchanged for Jimmy Butler & Robin Lopez. Celtics Lineup of Lopez/Horford/Butler/Smart/Thomas would help increase their chances of coming out of the Eastern Conference. As for the Bulls, they start fresh,

Celts remove themselves from Nets' teet after '17-'18

There is no draft pick swap after that.

Twolves88
05-11-2017, 12:44 AM
Raptors: Blow it up. Lowry is 32 and a perennial playoff loser. You tried to go all in this year with Ibaka just get to get swept. Derozen is flashy but purely a volume scorer. If they want to continue to be a 1-3 seed and get knocked out by better teams every year continue their current pattern.

Clippers: This ones tough for me. I'd actually go unconventional and ditch doc and keep the core intact. I know this might be hard for retaining players but I really think a change in system could put this team over the top. If they can get some bench pieces as well they might hit a down year from one team or so to get into the finals.

OKC: Westbrook as well as he looks is a chucker this last season. The rest of his team is inept. I'd blow it up.

Blazers: Bad contracts have doomed this team. If you can find someone to take on the bad contracts and somehow get decent role players they could be a 3-6 seed. However, they still don't have a core for championships. Lillard will fall off sooner rather then later. I'd keep CJ and trade Lillard and build around CJ. Trade off all those bad contracts if possible.

Hawks: They are screwed max Millsap and just wait out howards contract.

Pacers: Blow it up without a doubt.

Bulls: Blow it up. They played boston which was a good matchup for them in the playoffs and made them look like a better more organized team then they actually are.

Ironically if these teams started trading within each other every team could potentially benefit....

Mave1002
05-11-2017, 01:25 AM
Raptors: Is there any way this team constructed this way can be the best team in the East in the next 2 years? If not how can they give Lowry a huge contract?

Clippers: CP3 and Griffin and Reddick ... pay them and this team can't change for the next 5 years. They are not going to get healthier over the years.

OKC: How can they get a system and players around Westbrook to win enough to challenge?

Blazers: Lillard and CJ are great, Nurkic had a good month ... is that enough? The team is set to be broke for a long time with a bunch of role players they hope are going to transform.

Hawks: Max Millsap? Then what?

Pacers: Are they going to waste the rest of PGs career? Can they win now or develop their youth and hope to win in a few years? And if it's in a few then why not blow it up now and get all they can for the vets on the roster now?

Bulls: Butler is great. Nobody seems to have any consensus on any of the remaining talent on that roster.

1.) Clips - They're done. I'd like to see Blake Griffin in a Celtics uniform. JJ Should take less and join the GSW. CP3's only chance to win a ship is with the Spurs. That's it.

2.) OKC - Westbrook can average a quadruple double next season, but it won't be enough to carry a team into the second/third round. He needs a partner. Put him on a team like the Pelicans and things will change. Is it financially possible? uh uh.

3.) Blazers - Won't have the money to take on any other contracts after the Turner/Crabbe signings. Just stay pat and see if they can acquire more young talent. They hit the jackpot with Nurk though, just gotta make sure he stays healthy next season.

4.) Hawks - D12 was their biggest mistake. Loved their 2014 roster, especially the D. I don't even know how they can reconstruct their roster now. Atlanta has the biggest question mark future wise.

5.) Pacers - Should do everything they can to acquire assets + a top 3 pick. Hopefully they get Boston's top 3 (Nets pick) in exchange for PG13, he bolts next year only to join my team. haha.

6.) Bulls -Trade Jimmy Butler for a top 5 pick. Should either be Butler or George for Boston's pick if they get #1

Mave1002
05-11-2017, 01:40 AM
I noticed while googling for nba trade rumors that Lakers are ready to cough up multiple youngster for PG13. I didn't click the site. Not sure if true or not. Could of been a click bait site. Could be possible since PG13 already said if Pacers don't start winning soon he'd consider Lakers as a free agent down the line.

Best scenario for my Lakers would be for PG13 to go to Boston for a 1 year rental in exchange for their top 3. Lakers should stay on course if this were to happen. We get rid of Deng (to Thibs' Wolves for Pek's contract) and Mozgov (plus assets to BKN's Brook Lopez*), get the last piece to the puzzle in say Josh Jackson*..

Lopez*/Zubac
Randle/LNJ/TRob
Jackson*/Brewer
Ingram/Nwaba
Russell/Ennis

Give me two pieces for this upcoming season and id be very very happy. Develop the roster for an entire year and start paying "stars" the year after. PG13 comes, I'd look into mortgaging the entire farm for Anthony Davis.

Twolves88
05-11-2017, 02:08 AM
Best scenario for my Lakers would be for PG13 to go to Boston for a 1 year rental in exchange for their top 3. Lakers should stay on course if this were to happen. We get rid of Deng (to Thibs' Wolves for Pek's contract) and Mozgov (plus assets to BKN's Brook Lopez*), get the last piece to the puzzle in say Josh Jackson*..

Lopez*/Zubac
Randle/LNJ/TRob
Jackson*/Brewer
Ingram/Nwaba
Russell/Ennis

Give me two pieces for this upcoming season and id be very very happy. Develop the roster for an entire year and start paying "stars" the year after. PG13 comes, I'd look into mortgaging the entire farm for Anthony Davis.

Peks contract cant be traded by rule or it becomes garenteed + why the f would we want deng. He does literally nothing for us. You'd need to include an asset for us to even consider taking on dengs contract.

Vinylman
05-11-2017, 07:13 AM
Unless LBJ or any two of the big 4 in GS get injured, the right move for everyone is to blow it up and set yourself up through the draft to be where the Wolves are in five years. Which puts you about 7 years from contending. The next 4 years is going to be Cavs and GS in the finals.

Brown will have 11 straight finals appearances lol...GOAT

delusional

Vinylman
05-11-2017, 07:17 AM
Peks contract cant be traded by rule or it becomes garenteed + why the f would we want deng. He does literally nothing for us. You'd need to include an asset for us to even consider taking on dengs contract.

I don't know about deng but who would care if Pek's deal becomes guaranteed for next year... it is peanuts and if he doesn't play there is insurance.

warfelg
05-11-2017, 08:09 AM
Raptors: Is there any way this team constructed this way can be the best team in the East in the next 2 years? If not how can they give Lowry a huge contract?

They need a little mini-rebuild. Let Lowry and Ibaka walk. Pump up Val's value. Get two picks in the 2018 draft along with plenty of cap room.


Clippers: CP3 and Griffin and Reddick ... pay them and this team can't change for the next 5 years. They are not going to get healthier over the years.

They ultimately will keep the band together, when really they need to get out from under that and rebuild full on.


OKC: How can they get a system and players around Westbrook to win enough to challenge?

Their cap situation makes it tough. Find a way to get a wing for Kanter. They have little to no floor spacing. Having a 2 or 3 that's a 3 and D guy to give Westy the space would be big.


Blazers: Lillard and CJ are great, Nurkic had a good month ... is that enough? The team is set to be broke for a long time with a bunch of role players they hope are going to transform.

I fully believe to get out from ET or Crabbe, they have to move one of Lillard or CJ. I think a really interesting concept would be if the Clips decided to move on, if the Blazers did a CJ/Crabbe for Blake swap.


Hawks: Max Millsap? Then what?

I have no clue what this team is to do. Purgatory. That's it. They are too good to reboot, not good enough to be competitive for a ECF even. Prey you luck out in the draft or can sign a decent FA on the cheap.


Pacers: Are they going to waste the rest of PGs career? Can they win now or develop their youth and hope to win in a few years? And if it's in a few then why not blow it up now and get all they can for the vets on the roster now?

Trade everyone but Myles Turner. Rebuild around him. Take 3 years to get it right (no not talking about a Philly style tank job). Get out from all the contracts (Thad, Ellis, ect).


Bulls: Butler is great. Nobody seems to have any consensus on any of the remaining talent on that roster.

Don't bring Rondo Back. Hope that Wade doesn't opt in. Let Miratic walk. That would give them tons of cap room. Try to sign George Hill and Serge Ibaka. Get a new coach. Fill out the spaces around the roster with better signings. Send a few picks and a young player to get a top end 6th man.

Hill
Valentine
Butler
Ibaka
Lopez

Scoots
05-11-2017, 08:50 AM
It's interesting how many teams would be helped by trading with the Clippers.

warfelg
05-11-2017, 09:31 AM
It's interesting how many teams would be helped by trading with the Clippers.

Between that and about a 50/50 split on who it helps right now is interesting too.

Knicks: Trading them Melo for some 1's and Salary dump.
Celtics: Blake will want his big max, but a S&T could be on the table.
Blazers: What I wrote above.
Hornets: If they want to S&T for Paul.

And I got two really "under the radar" moves that could be interesting:
Clippers resign Chris Paul. Resign Blake, and in a sign and trade they sent him to Cleveland for KLove and salary filler.

That would give the Clippers:
CP3
JJ
???
Love
DJ

Which I think works better for them

And would give the Cav's:
Irving
Smith
Lebron
Griffen
TT

Which I think Blake being a better passer and pick guy that Love helps them more too.

And then the other "underrated" move I think they could make:
Resign Blake, CP3, and let JJ walk.

Trade DeAndre Jordan to the Charlotte Hornets for MKG+Kaminsky+2 2nd's (or something else to fill it out).

That again give the clips a better SF and gives them a guy that can space out the court a little more to give the space in the paint. Give the Hornets a PnR guy worth working with Kemba.

Clips:
CP3
???
MKG
Blake
Kaminsky

Hornets:
Kemba
Lamb
Batum
Williams
Jordan



Both those that I put out there are, IMO, trades and moves that could really benefit both teams.

Quinnsanity
05-11-2017, 05:01 PM
Between that and about a 50/50 split on who it helps right now is interesting too.

Knicks: Trading them Melo for some 1's and Salary dump.
Celtics: Blake will want his big max, but a S&T could be on the table.
Blazers: What I wrote above.
Hornets: If they want to S&T for Paul.

And I got two really "under the radar" moves that could be interesting:
Clippers resign Chris Paul. Resign Blake, and in a sign and trade they sent him to Cleveland for KLove and salary filler.

That would give the Clippers:
CP3
JJ
???
Love
DJ

Which I think works better for them

And would give the Cav's:
Irving
Smith
Lebron
Griffen
TT

Which I think Blake being a better passer and pick guy that Love helps them more too.

And then the other "underrated" move I think they could make:
Resign Blake, CP3, and let JJ walk.

Trade DeAndre Jordan to the Charlotte Hornets for MKG+Kaminsky+2 2nd's (or something else to fill it out).

That again give the clips a better SF and gives them a guy that can space out the court a little more to give the space in the paint. Give the Hornets a PnR guy worth working with Kemba.

Clips:
CP3
???
MKG
Blake
Kaminsky

Hornets:
Kemba
Lamb
Batum
Williams
Jordan



Both those that I put out there are, IMO, trades and moves that could really benefit both teams.

I am seeing a lot of people throw around sign-and-trades for Blake on here, to OKC or otherwise. I want put the following on record, per the Larry Coon CBA FAQ:

"Starting in 2013-14, the team receiving the player cannot be above the "apron" ($4 million above the tax level) at the conclusion of the trade. A team above the apron can receive a player in a sign-and-trade if the trade reduces the team's payroll and the team finishes the trade below the apron."

Both Cleveland and the Clippers (assuming they don't lose everyone) are going to be well over the apron. OKC would probably end up above the apron in any Blake trade. If Blake is going to get signed-and-traded, it has to be to a team with more cap flexibility.

I have basketball problems with the trade too. Why would Cleveland hurt their spacing for someone with such injury issues who would cost more money? Also, I love Blake, but he is not a better passer than Love. Minnesota Love was one of the best passing bigs in the league. He just doesn't get as much of a chance to show it off on the Cavs, where he stands behind the three-point line and waits.

TrueFan420
05-11-2017, 06:41 PM
By "yet another mid-size player" I meant that they are already are paying Aminu, Turner, Harkless, and Crabbe all in the 6'6" to 6'9" size range ... not CJ.

For sure that makes sense. But all the players except Turner can play SG. And the honestly both butler and PG13 are better players than CJ. You always take the talent. Especially when it makes you a better team.

Scoots
05-11-2017, 11:10 PM
For sure that makes sense. But all the players except Turner can play SG. And the honestly both butler and PG13 are better players than CJ. You always take the talent. Especially when it makes you a better team.

Which is why I said I'd do your proposed deal ... just thought it funny they could field an entire starting 5 of SFs :)

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-12-2017, 04:46 PM
On the Bucks board I suggested we'd eat Crabbe's dead weight contract for #15 pick or #20 and #26. Then we give back top 55 protected second round pick. Gets Blazers down from deep luxury tax. But Moose and Hawes have to opt out. Even then it be close to eat that contract out right. Unless Bucks find a salary dump of Delly or Telly or Henson going elsewhere.

Quinnsanity
05-12-2017, 10:03 PM
On the Bucks board I suggested we'd eat Crabbe's dead weight contract for #15 pick or #20 and #26. Then we give back top 55 protected second round pick. Gets Blazers down from deep luxury tax. But Moose and Hawes have to opt out. Even then it be close to eat that contract out right. Unless Bucks find a salary dump of Delly or Telly or Henson going elsewhere.

Crabbe is too valuable a player to give up that much just to get rid of. If you're giving up assets to dump someone, it's Turner. But it doesn't seem like Portland cares all that much about the tax. Paul Allen is one of the richest owners in pro sports.

Man I would like to see Crabbe on the Bucks though. That's a really nice fit if you can get him up to speed on defense. It'd be really tough fitting him under the cap. Basically means Monroe opted out and you still moved some salary afterwards.