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More-Than-Most
05-04-2017, 03:53 PM
So far in these playoffs he is doing this

34 PPG
9 RPG
7 APG
3 SPG
2 BPG

56 pct shooting from the field and 48 pct shooting from 3.

Not only has he been god mode he has been a defensive monster so far proving that he really doesnt care about the regular season.... I still think they lose to the warriors and the celtics give them a tough time but we really need to understand just how magical this guy is... Here is a link on his general playoff stats and they are just remarkable and he has been a privilege to watch.. This is no longer crap team after crap team... Pacers are good with a top 7 player in the world right? and now the raptors who are a really good team... Then the celtics and the warriors... I am not sure there is a tougher path right now.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#all_playoffs_per_game

da ThRONe
05-04-2017, 04:17 PM
Well put. People should stop worrying about his overall ranking and just enjoy ball being played at an exceptional level.

5ass
05-04-2017, 04:19 PM
He's a beast. Hopefully he can keep it up in the finals.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2017, 04:24 PM
I generally like watching once in a generation players, and LeBron is the best I have seen since Jordan pretty easily. I could care less if he wins anymore or not, but it's always fun watching him go nova, so another title wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Plus, I don't want GS to win at all, so I am hoping for the only team that can beat them to do it. For fun, I would also love to see him win another title, to see his haters squirm even more.

GREATNESS ONE
05-04-2017, 04:37 PM
Hope GS wins it all.

Really... Pacers, Raptors Tics/Wiz? Lololololol yea he's amazing.

GoferKing_
05-04-2017, 04:38 PM
We all know he is the best out there right now and he does not give a one about regular season. And no 3pt shot from Curry can change that.

Vee-Rex
05-04-2017, 04:43 PM
I generally like watching once in a generation players, and LeBron is the best I have seen since Jordan pretty easily. I could care less if he wins anymore or not, but it's always fun watching him go nova, so another title wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Plus, I don't want GS to win at all, so I am hoping for the only team that can beat them to do it. For fun, I would also love to see him win another title, to see his haters squirm even more.

:hi5:

it's gonna take a collective effort from fans all over the world to topple the nightmarish behemoth that is GS

Lil Rhody
05-04-2017, 04:50 PM
He's ight

Hawkeye15
05-04-2017, 04:58 PM
Hope GS wins it all.

Really... Pacers, Raptors Tics/Wiz? Lololololol yea he's amazing.

as I have started to do with any of these types of posts...

Magic played who again out west during the entire 1980'? Oh that's right, a lot of sub .500 and average teams until they met whichever team came out of the east.

GREATNESS ONE
05-04-2017, 05:00 PM
as I have started to do with any of these types of posts...

Magic played who again out west during the entire 1980'? Oh that's right, a lot of sub .500 and average teams until they met whichever team came out of the east.

As i have started to do with these types of post...

:love:

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 05:00 PM
Hope GS wins it all.

Really... Pacers, Raptors Tics/Wiz? Lololololol yea he's amazing.

He's better than Kobe.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2017, 05:02 PM
As i have started to do with these types of post...

:love:

haha

GREATNESS ONE
05-04-2017, 05:05 PM
He's better than Kobe.

And Wade ;)

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 05:08 PM
And Wade ;)

:mad:

aman_13
05-04-2017, 05:10 PM
I'm starting to think he's the second greatest player of all time. If he defeats the Warriors, then there is no argument imo.

aman_13
05-04-2017, 05:14 PM
Other than the Warriors, there isn't a team in the West that will beat him 4 times. No chance. Not this yr.

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 05:19 PM
It's funny too because if the Warriors wins it means absolutely nothing to any of their legacies but would do so much for LeBrons if he wins.

aman_13
05-04-2017, 05:32 PM
It's funny too because if the Warriors wins it means absolutely nothing to any of their legacies but would do so much for LeBrons if he wins.

That's why I'm rooting for him. There is nothing to gain from the Warriors winning. They are great players but I don't think fans will look at them any differently.

If LeBron wins, then all the haters can't say anything.

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 05:36 PM
That's why I'm rooting for him. There is nothing to gain from the Warriors winning. They are great players but I don't think fans will look at them any differently.

If LeBron wins, then all the haters can't say anything.

I agree I'm rooting for him too.

kdspurman
05-04-2017, 05:59 PM
Other than the Warriors, there isn't a team in the West that will beat him 4 times. No chance. Not this yr.

With TP out, maybe not. But yea, Spurs could have for sure. & Houston is kind of a wild card with how they shoot the ball

More-Than-Most
05-04-2017, 06:01 PM
With TP out, maybe not. But yea, Spurs could for sure. & Houston if theyre on

pop knows what to do against Lebron and KL is a Lebron stopper... spurs are just as scary as the warriors to the cavs and it wont be a pushover... I think the warriors end both the spurs and cavs in 5 though... it sucks but it is what it is.

ewing
05-04-2017, 06:03 PM
thank god we finally have a thread on this guy

kdspurman
05-04-2017, 06:05 PM
pop knows what to do against Lebron and KL is a Lebron stopper... spurs are just as scary as the warriors to the cavs and it wont be a pushover... I think the warriors end both the spurs and cavs in 5 though... it sucks but it is what it is.

Heh, we gotta get thru Houston first. The TP news is just terrible honestly. He was playing so well.

I agree tho. Kawhi is coming into his own in a big way in these playoffs, putting up some fine numbers of his own. It'd be fun to see them go at it again

aman_13
05-04-2017, 06:13 PM
With TP out, maybe not. But yea, Spurs could have for sure. & Houston is kind of a wild card with how they shoot the ball

I had that in mind.

FlashBolt
05-04-2017, 08:47 PM
LeBron is the best player in the NBA and it. is. not. even. close. It's crazy to say because many along with myself doubted Kawhi's ability to be a superstar but there is no doubt, if not for LeBron, Kawhi would be the best player in the NBA. I don't want to hear about this guy having few assists or can't playmake any more. This guy has shown every inch of being capable of doing these things for his team. His TS% for the playoffs is 4% higher than the next closest guy with a minimum of 5 or so games.

tredigs
05-04-2017, 09:24 PM
Poor LBJ. What an underdog he has been in the big bad east. This guy deserves a break or at least an All Star Teammate ffs!

Oh, wait.

East is just smh, the more you watch the worse it gets. Bron very good as per usual. No shocker. Though that 3pt shooting will dip significantly once he faces an elite D and it just regresses to the mean in general.

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 09:27 PM
Poor LBJ. What an underdog he has been in the big bad east. This guy deserves a break or at least an All Star Teammate ffs!

Oh, wait.

East is just smh, the more you watch the worse it gets. Bron very good as per usual. No shocker. Though that 3pt shooting will dip significantly once he faces an elite D and it just regresses to the mean in general.

LeBron would run through the west. It's the Warriors and the Cavs that's it. The only team pushing either to 6 is the Spurs and TP is gone.

FlashBolt
05-04-2017, 09:27 PM
Portland out with Nurkic.
Jazz with a semi-injured Gobert and George Hill out for game 2.
Tony Parker out for playoffs.

Warriors don't have it much more difficult. They actually have it easier considering their roster is better than the Cavs.

One Nut Kruk
05-04-2017, 09:45 PM
Portland out with Nurkic.
Jazz with a semi-injured Gobert and George Hill out for game 2.
Tony Parker out for playoffs.

Warriors don't have it much more difficult. They actually have it easier considering their roster is better than the Cavs.

I don't think anybody is claiming otherwise.

But MTM is claiming Lebron is in god mode and finally against teams that aren't crap. Really, the Pacers and Raptors are really good? Come on. Lebron is awesome, that is not up for debate. But he is not facing much here.

More-Than-Most
05-04-2017, 10:24 PM
Poor LBJ. What an underdog he has been in the big bad east. This guy deserves a break or at least an All Star Teammate ffs!

Oh, wait.

East is just smh, the more you watch the worse it gets. Bron very good as per usual. No shocker. Though that 3pt shooting will dip significantly once he faces an elite D and it just regresses to the mean in general.

lebron would toast the west if he was on the Jazz/Spurs/Clippers/Rockets/Thunder/warriors... You say the big bad east but negate the help the west teams have... But this logic seems to fail on you and others esp when the age old west vs east excuse comes up... Take any player off of the Warriors and replace them with lebron and they are far and away a better team.... The east has legit teams in boston/raptors/Wizards... Its just lebron is having legendary game after legendary game and making it look easy.

More-Than-Most
05-04-2017, 10:25 PM
I don't think anybody is claiming otherwise.

But MTM is claiming Lebron is in god mode and finally against teams that aren't crap. Really, the Pacers and Raptors are really good? Come on. Lebron is awesome, that is not up for debate. But he is not facing much here.

Wait so PG13 is only one of the best players in the world when it fits a certain narrative? The Raptors are in fact really good yes.

Mostly was joking about the pacers but yes the raptors are legit and whomever they face next will be just that.

tredigs
05-04-2017, 10:31 PM
lebron would toast the west if he was on the Jazz/Spurs/Clippers/Rockets/Thunder/warriors... You say the big bad east but negate the help the west teams have... But this logic seems to fail on you and others esp when the age old west vs east excuse comes up... Take any player off of the Warriors and replace them with lebron and they are far and away a better team.... The east has legit teams in boston/raptors/Wizards... Its just lebron is having legendary game after legendary game and making it look easy.

If he was ON them lol, so just adding him on top to create some some super-payroll such as say... only the CAVS have? None of those teams are as good as the healthy Jazz or Spurs or Rockets IMO (we can pretend like this is 2010 and TP is a great player, or we can understand that he's just a cog in the wheel at this point despite having a couple good games here). LBJ would have a massive challenge getting to the Warriors in the West, just as he would have always had a massive challenge in the West.

He's played well so far against weak competition. And he's certainly not alone in these playoffs. Draymond and Curry have been incredible, CP3 was incredible, Kawhi has been incredible. Would hope that the Celtics or Wiz could play them close but upon closer inspection it's more than evident that these are average 50-53 win ~5-6 seed teams in an average season. Here's hoping 'Bron and Co are still healthy and playing at this caliber for the Finals.

ewing
05-04-2017, 10:32 PM
lebron would toast the west if he was on the Jazz/Spurs/Clippers/Rockets/Thunder/warriors... You say the big bad east but negate the help the west teams have... But this logic seems to fail on you and others esp when the age old west vs east excuse comes up... Take any player off of the Warriors and replace them with lebron and they are far and away a better team.... The east has legit teams in boston/raptors/Wizards... Its just lebron is having legendary game after legendary game and making it look easy.

but Lebron has help. more then anyone else in the East. That said he has been incredible. I think the best LeBron i've seen and i didn't see that coming. So kudos to LeBron

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 10:32 PM
Wait so PG13 is only one of the best players in the world when it fits a certain narrative? The Raptors are in fact really good yes.

Mostly was joking about the pacers but yes the raptors are legit and whomever they face next will be just that.

You were dogging how overrated Paul George was every game in the first round so, yea I guess he only is a top player in the world when it fits a certain narrative (yours).

tredigs
05-04-2017, 10:34 PM
Wait so PG13 is only one of the best players in the world when it fits a certain narrative? The Raptors are in fact really good yes.

Mostly was joking about the pacers but yes the raptors are legit and whomever they face next will be just that.
PG is a borderline top-10 playoff performer on a **** team and the Raps are just playoff failures - fortunate to out-duel the Bucks (a 42 win 6 seed). Congrats? I mean, he doesn't need to prove to anybody how good he is, but his comp has not been good.

ewing
05-04-2017, 10:34 PM
If he was ON them lol, so just adding him on top to create some some super-payroll such as say... only the CAVS have? None of those teams are as good as the healthy Jazz or Spurs or Rockets IMO (we can pretend like this is 2010 and TP is a great player, or we can understand that he's just a cog in the wheel at this point despite having a couple good games here). LBJ would have a massive challenge getting to the Warriors in the West, just as he would have always had a massive challenge in the West.

He's played well so far against weak competition. And he's certainly not alone in these playoffs. Draymond and Curry have been incredible, CP3 was incredible, Kawhi has been incredible. Would hope that the Celtics or Wiz could play them close but upon closer inspection it's more than evident that these are average 50-53 win ~5-6 seed teams in an average season. Here's hoping 'Bron and Co are still healthy and playing at this caliber for the Finals.

I'd be scared. LeBron is in god mode and that team can ****ing shoot. Warriors will have to play D. I think they can and do but right now i don't think have too.

ewing
05-04-2017, 10:35 PM
Wait so PG13 is only one of the best players in the world when it fits a certain narrative? The Raptors are in fact really good yes.

Mostly was joking about the pacers but yes the raptors are legit and whomever they face next will be just that.

Dude to trashed PG :laugh:

tredigs
05-04-2017, 10:36 PM
I'd be scared. LeBron is in god mode and that team can ****ing shoot. Warriors will have to play D. I think they can and do but right now i don't think have too.

D is arguably what the Warriors do best. I can't tell you how badly I wish 'Bron and the Cavs were in the West.

More-Than-Most
05-04-2017, 10:48 PM
D is arguably what the Warriors do best. I can't tell you how badly I wish 'Bron and the Cavs were in the West.

better hope not because you wouldnt have made the finals last year apparently :shrug:

More-Than-Most
05-04-2017, 10:50 PM
when do I trash PG13? I trash where people rank him... he is a top 15-20 player on a good pacers team... Not a very good pacers team though.

tredigs
05-04-2017, 10:50 PM
better hope not because you wouldnt have made the finals last year apparently :shrug:

Cavs won, but the best team in the playoffs last year was probably OKC. Cavs would have been incredibly hard pressed to make the Finals, and could have very possibly fallen short of the WCF. Goes for multiple years of this consecutive Finals run (if that is not clear to stans).

More-Than-Most
05-04-2017, 10:53 PM
If he was ON them lol, so just adding him on top to create some some super-payroll such as say... only the CAVS have? None of those teams are as good as the healthy Jazz or Spurs or Rockets IMO (we can pretend like this is 2010 and TP is a great player, or we can understand that he's just a cog in the wheel at this point despite having a couple good games here). LBJ would have a massive challenge getting to the Warriors in the West, just as he would have always had a massive challenge in the West.

He's played well so far against weak competition. And he's certainly not alone in these playoffs. Draymond and Curry have been incredible, CP3 was incredible, Kawhi has been incredible. Would hope that the Celtics or Wiz could play them close but upon closer inspection it's more than evident that these are average 50-53 win ~5-6 seed teams in an average season. Here's hoping 'Bron and Co are still healthy and playing at this caliber for the Finals.

um so all of these teams are better than the east teams.. that is what you said... SO if Lebron Is on any of those west teams you dont think he would have it just as easy WHEN HE IS ON A SICK *** TEAM.... Yes the west is better BUT IF LEBRON GOES WEST THE TEAM HE GOES TO IS BETTER THAN THIS CAVS TEAM BY A GOOD BIT... Why the hell is that so hard to understand.

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 10:54 PM
Cavs won, but the best team in the playoffs last year was probably OKC. Cavs would have been incredibly hard pressed to make the Finals, and could have very possibly fallen short of the WCF. Goes for multiple years of this consecutive Finals run (if that is not clear to stans).

KD is LeBrons ***** though. They were better than you guys in the playoffs I'll give you that but KD decided to throw that series so he wouldn't look so bad when he joined (he does) but that Thunder team wasn't going to beat the Cavs.

valade16
05-04-2017, 10:54 PM
LeBron's Cavs would not have a problem beating any West team in a series except the Warriors and Spurs. You could argue the cumulative beating of the West would wear them down, but in a series? Cavs would still be a dominant team.

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 10:55 PM
when do I trash PG13? I trash where people rank him... he is a top 15-20 player on a good pacers team... Not a very good pacers team though.

The whole Cavs vs Pacers first round thread, I'm not sure why you're denying this lol.

tredigs
05-04-2017, 10:56 PM
um so all of these teams are better than the east teams.. that is what you said... SO if Lebron Is on any of those west teams you dont think he would have it just as easy WHEN HE IS ON A SICK *** TEAM.... Yes the west is better BUT IF LEBRON GOES WEST THE TEAM HE GOES TO IS BETTER THAN THIS CAVS TEAM BY A GOOD BIT... Why the hell is that so hard to understand.

Fun fact: You can't just add a superstar to a team without everything working perfectly. Cavs literally have the highest payroll in the NBA (by 8 digits). There is context to take into consideration.

tredigs
05-04-2017, 10:59 PM
As far as small forwards go, Kawhi has been far and away the best in the NBA this post-season (and has a case for the reg season as well).

More-Than-Most
05-04-2017, 10:59 PM
Fun fact: You can't just add a superstar to a team without everything working perfectly. Cavs literally have the highest payroll in the NBA (by 8 digits). There is context to take into consideration.

add lebron to any of those teams and take off a superstar... STILL BETTER unless you lose westy/harden of course... But any of those teams... Take LA off the spurs and add James... Its a wrap... Take durant or curry off the warriors and add lebron and they are better... etc etc etc... You can put lebron on any team and take off any player and they are better... You put him out west he now has a deeper and better team ESP on defense holy ****.

Your argument is silly period and its the same silly stupid argument that people pick apart all the time when someone says well he plays in the EAST but refuse to accept that if he was in the west he would have a **** ton of help

tredigs
05-04-2017, 11:03 PM
add lebron to any of those teams and take off a superstar... STILL BETTER unless you lose westy/harden of course... But any of those teams... Take LA off the spurs and add James... Its a wrap... Take durant or curry off the warriors and add lebron and they are better... etc etc etc... You can put lebron on any team and take off any player and they are better... You put him out west he now has a deeper and better team ESP on defense holy ****.

Your argument is silly period and its the same silly stupid argument that people pick apart all the time when someone says well he plays in the EAST but refuse to accept that if he was in the west he would have a **** ton of help

Take LMA-O off? LMAO. No, you take off Kawhi. And no, I don't think they're better. Very marginally if so, but he certainly has not outplayed Kawhi this season - or post season.

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 11:07 PM
LeBrons been the best player this post season easily.

ewing
05-04-2017, 11:08 PM
LeBron's Cavs would not have a problem beating any West team in a series except the Warriors and Spurs. You could argue the cumulative beating of the West would wear them down, but in a series? Cavs would still be a dominant team.

yeah b/c they are really good. LeBron is the best player and he has good help. He has two guys that are all NBA talents, he has Deron Williams as a back up PG, Kover, Frye, JR, there is an all time great and **** ton of talent on the team.

aman_13
05-04-2017, 11:11 PM
LeBron's Cavs would not have a problem beating any West team in a series except the Warriors and Spurs. You could argue the cumulative beating of the West would wear them down, but in a series? Cavs would still be a dominant team.

Yup and to suggest otherwise is absurd.

valade16
05-04-2017, 11:13 PM
yeah b/c they are really good. LeBron is the best player and he has good help. He has two guys that are all NBA talents, he has Deron Williams as a back up PG, Kover, Frye, JR, there is an all time great and **** ton of talent on the team.

Yeah I agree. I'm not disputing that. I thought some were disputing the Cavs would be very good in the West.

aman_13
05-04-2017, 11:16 PM
Regardless of competition, or what you think of the competition, it's doesn't negate his greatness.

Bringing it up is pointless imo.

tredigs
05-04-2017, 11:17 PM
LeBrons been the best player this post season easily.

I mean, not true at all, but sure.

Kawhi (that quiet dude that shut down Harden last night, plays for this quiet team in San Antonio) has a 37 PER, >70% TS (way better) and a >.400 WS/48 putting up 30 a night for their boys. Leads all playoff perfomers in PER, WinShares, BPM, VORP. But hey, he's not the chosen one so back to 'Bron.

More-Than-Most
05-04-2017, 11:20 PM
Take LMA-O off? LMAO. No, you take off Kawhi. And no, I don't think they're better. Very marginally if so, but he certainly has not outplayed Kawhi this season - or post season.

he has outplayed him this post season just stop

tredigs
05-04-2017, 11:21 PM
he has outplayed him this post season just stop

Yeah, not even ****ing close, but sounds good MTM.

valade16
05-04-2017, 11:22 PM
LeBron is having a phenomenal post-season, but Kawhi's would be the best ever if he can keep this up and get sA to the Finals. His numbers are literally inhuman and impossible to maintain for much longer.

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 11:23 PM
I mean, not true at all, but sure.

Kawhi (that quiet dude that shut down Harden last night, plays for this quiet team in San Antonio) has a 37 PER, >70% TS (way better) and a >.400 WS/48 putting up 30 a night for their boys. Leads all playoff perfomers in PER, WinShares, BPM, VORP. But hey, he's not the chosen one so back to 'Bron.

6-0 > 5-3

LeBron has been great in literally every game.

tredigs
05-04-2017, 11:29 PM
6-0 > 5-3

LeBron has been great in literally every game.

Playing tougher comp is not a case for Bron. He has been excellent, but that SF in the East has been better. What's that shirt Bron wore say... "Stats don't lie?"

WaDe03
05-04-2017, 11:32 PM
Playing tougher comp is not a case for Bron. He has been excellent, but that SF in the East has been better. What's that shirt Bron wore say... "Stats don't lie?"

I agree the SF on the East has been better.

aman_13
05-04-2017, 11:32 PM
Kawhi has been better. I would agree with that. I'm surprised the thread went in that direction tho. Or maybe I misread the intentions of this thread.

europagnpilgrim
05-04-2017, 11:54 PM
It's funny too because if the Warriors wins it means absolutely nothing to any of their legacies but would do so much for LeBrons if he wins.

I know right, people are so dumb stuck on If Lebron wins he is the 2nd best ever but if he doesn't where does he drop to? after 14yrs you would think he is where he is rather he wins another ring or not

to me he wont drop or go up rather he beats GS or not because if he loses to them they(his fanatic dick riders) will say he went up against the most stacked in prime team ever, its like we play see saw with this ring chatter while not realizing he is one of the best most dominant players ever regardless of rings but since the media has brainwashed most to put rings as the end all it muddies the waters to where you have people with no ring better/more dominant than some who do or players with the bulk of rings lower ranked on greatest all time list, but I know they love confusion so the media agenda wins again

if you didn't have Lebron in your so called top 5-10 yrs ago then he shouldn't be there now, because to me that would be showing your lack of bball knowledge to the fullest, he doesn't need 3 more rings to catch Jordan because he is either there now or not, rings wont change that

when you avg 27/7/7 for as long as he has for many straight years that is self explanatory as it gets

I praise Lebron more for his 4 NBA MVP's than his 3 rings because that shows his individual dominance more, rings are team prize, from the owner to the ball boy

aman_13
05-05-2017, 12:31 AM
If he loses, it does nothing. LeBron has already solidified his legacy. That is obvious. However, I'm not sure what's hard to understand about the notion - that LeBron defeating one of the greatest teams of all time - will raise or solidify his all time ranking. Especially since no one thinks they will win.

LeBron has doubters and haters if you didn't notice.

nastynice
05-05-2017, 02:22 AM
Portland out with Nurkic.
Jazz with a semi-injured Gobert and George Hill out for game 2.
Tony Parker out for playoffs.

Warriors don't have it much more difficult. They actually have it easier considering their roster is better than the Cavs.

lol

More-Than-Most
05-05-2017, 02:46 AM
lol

nice rebuttal... he is 100 percent correct... warriors have it insanely easier when you factor in that plus their roster and its not close.

lol, please
05-05-2017, 03:20 AM
Other than the Warriors, there isn't a team in the West that will beat him 4 times. No chance. Not this yr.

Jazz and Rockets say hi.

jason
05-05-2017, 03:58 AM
nice rebuttal... he is 100 percent correct... warriors have it insanely easier when you factor in that plus their roster and its not close.
Man do you love using hyperbole

nastynice
05-05-2017, 04:12 AM
nice rebuttal... he is 100 percent correct... warriors have it insanely easier when you factor in that plus their roster and its not close.

lmao, you savage!

I'm just laughing cuz I made a sarcastic comment in another thread, calling this exact thing out. We get it bro, if anything short of Jordan, Shaq, and Magic's clone come back in prime shape to form a new superteam, then the warriors are blessed with the easiest path to the finals in nba history. We heard you bro, no need to keep repeating

More-Than-Most
05-05-2017, 04:21 AM
lmao, you savage!

I'm just laughing cuz I made a sarcastic comment in another thread, calling this exact thing out. We get it bro, if anything short of Jordan, Shaq, and Magic's clone come back in prime shape to form a new superteam, then the warriors are blessed with the easiest path to the finals in nba history. We heard you bro, no need to keep repeating

as long as we agree :shrug:

WaDe03
05-05-2017, 09:37 AM
Jazz and Rockets say hi.

Why are they saying hi? Neither pushes the Cavs past 5.

Hawkeye15
05-05-2017, 10:14 AM
looked at his numbers. He basically plays like this every playoffs. We have become spoiled at how consistently dominant he is in the playoffs.

KL's numbers are stupid. Can't see how he maintains them haha, they would be GOAT number...

krazylegz
05-05-2017, 11:58 AM
Why are they saying hi? Neither pushes the Cavs past 5.

finally someone with common sense...how are you the only person on here with a brain he knows how to use?

valade16
05-05-2017, 12:07 PM
Whether or not a healthy Jazz could push the Cavs to 7 games is fairly irrelevant because the Warriors aren't playing a healthy Jazz team.

The Cavs would definitely not get pushed to 7 vs the George Hill-less Jazz.

IKnowHoops
05-05-2017, 12:20 PM
looked at his numbers. He basically plays like this every playoffs. We have become spoiled at how consistently dominant he is in the playoffs.

KL's numbers are stupid. Can't see how he maintains them haha, they would be GOAT number...

This.

KL is basically putting up the best numbers that ever were. Bron is playing right there with the best ever, but KL's numbers are in fact better. Its weird to watch Lebron completely dominate beyond Jordan level, and then look over at the Spurs Box score and see that KL played better again. KL is trying to take Durant's spot on my all-time starting 5. I mean if you put up the best ever playoff, then to me, you are arguably the best.

LA4life24/8
05-05-2017, 12:22 PM
Jebron lames will be the goat statistically speaking no doubt but idt he ever dethrones jordan in the minds of the masses.

Also this years east competition isnt that great but that doesnt deter from his greatness as a player

Not a fan but give the guy the credit he is due. He's the best playet right now, has been for awhile and its not as close as a lot of people think in terms of #1 to #2

WaDe03
05-05-2017, 12:23 PM
finally someone with common sense...how are you the only person on here with a brain he knows how to use?

I'm built different!

More-Than-Most
05-05-2017, 09:37 PM
Win PCT of Opponents faced in conference heading into the finals

MJ-61pct
Lebron-59pct
Bird-57pct
Magic-56pct

Keep talking cake walks please... The reason why it looks so easy is because Lebron is amazing

Lebron without the wade

17 post season series wins
8 winning seasons
Post season record 72-36


MJ Without Pippen

0 playoff series wins
0 winning seasons
1-9 in the playoffs

nastynice
05-06-2017, 11:46 AM
[B]

Keep talking cake walks please... The reason why it looks so easy is because Lebron is amazing

]

Theres def truth to that, but cmon, what other team could possibly come out the east and not be HUGE underdogs vs whoever comes out the west?

The conference is weak as ****

europagnpilgrim
05-06-2017, 01:01 PM
If he loses, it does nothing. LeBron has already solidified his legacy. That is obvious. However, I'm not sure what's hard to understand about the notion - that LeBron defeating one of the greatest teams of all time - will raise or solidify his all time ranking. Especially since no one thinks they will win.

LeBron has doubters and haters if you didn't notice.

it does nothing either way

Lebron has nothing to prove, especially after 14 yrs in the league, what player does after that besides ring chasing? and I am talking about the best dominant players all the way down to secondary and third and so on lesser role players, so obvious

Lebron beat the best regular season team ever after being down 3-1 and that didn't raise his all time ranking to me, he just went into that mode that he did when he was down 3-2 against the Celtics in his Miami stint, just like in 07' against the Pistons he scored like 30 straight to beat them, same ish different toilet

Lebron has fanatics and dick riders if you didn't notice, and people who root for him like me who tell it like it unfolds

WaDe03
05-06-2017, 01:13 PM
it does nothing either way

Lebron has nothing to prove, especially after 14 yrs in the league, what player does after that besides ring chasing? and I am talking about the best dominant players all the way down to secondary and third and so on lesser role players, so obvious

Lebron beat the best regular season team ever after being down 3-1 and that didn't raise his all time ranking to me, he just went into that mode that he did when he was down 3-2 against the Celtics in his Miami stint, just like in 07' against the Pistons he scored like 30 straight to beat them, same ish different toilet

Lebron has fanatics and dick riders if you didn't notice, and people who root for him like me who tell it like it unfolds

He can definitely still add to his legacy, there's no debating that.

Vee-Rex
05-06-2017, 01:24 PM
Jebron lames will be the goat statistically speaking no doubt but idt he ever dethrones jordan in the minds of the masses.

Also this years east competition isnt that great but that doesnt deter from his greatness as a player

Not a fan but give the guy the credit he is due. He's the best playet right now, has been for awhile and its not as close as a lot of people think in terms of #1 to #2

I get the feeling that this was the most difficult post ever for you to make.

Shows how well LeBron has been playing.

valade16
05-06-2017, 01:26 PM
Statistically it just got a lot closer to who is performing the best in the playoffs between Kawhi and LeBron.

Vee-Rex
05-06-2017, 01:53 PM
Statistically it just got a lot closer to who is performing the best in the playoffs between Kawhi and LeBron.

Yep, sure did.

Kawhi

29.8 ppg
54.5% FG
51.2% 3pt
7.1rb
4.9apg
1.8 stpg
2.2 TOpg

35.1 PER
.705 TS%
.393 WS/48

LeBron

34.3 ppg
56.6% FG
48.6% 3pt
9rb
7.3apg
2.4 stpg
4.1 TOpg

32.2 PER
.661 TS%
.313 WS/48

I'm not just strictly zomgadvancedstatstrumpsall like some other guys on here, so it's super freaking close for me. I think the key highlight for me is the fact that LeBron is playing 4.5 more minutes per game than Kawhi (LeBron at 41.9 and Kawhi at 37.4, so his traditional stats might be a bit higher because of that. Then when you factor in turnovers (even though 'Bron is playing 4 more minutes), I might have to favor Kawhi right now in terms of who's performing the best.

Game 4 could change all of that, though.

aman_13
05-06-2017, 05:32 PM
it does nothing either way

Lebron has nothing to prove, especially after 14 yrs in the league, what player does after that besides ring chasing? and I am talking about the best dominant players all the way down to secondary and third and so on lesser role players, so obvious

Lebron beat the best regular season team ever after being down 3-1 and that didn't raise his all time ranking to me, he just went into that mode that he did when he was down 3-2 against the Celtics in his Miami stint, just like in 07' against the Pistons he scored like 30 straight to beat them, same ish different toilet

Lebron has fanatics and dick riders if you didn't notice, and people who root for him like me who tell it like it unfolds

Oh well do enlighten us as it does. I'm glad you have it all figured out.

More-Than-Most
05-06-2017, 05:43 PM
Theres def truth to that, but cmon, what other team could possibly come out the east and not be HUGE underdogs vs whoever comes out the west?

The conference is weak as ****

anyone except the cavs would be underdogs against spurs/warriors much like anyone out west will probably be underdogs coming out west against the cavs except the warriors... I dont see how Boston/washington/Raptors are any different out west outside of the spurs/warriors.

Celtics defense beats the rockets

europagnpilgrim
05-06-2017, 05:59 PM
He can definitely still add to his legacy, there's no debating that.

Of course he can add stats/numbers if he keeps playing the game and doesn't quit/retire/get injured, no debating that at all

its what players do after 14 yrs, keep balling until its over

his legacy is set in stone, he has nothing to prove and playing for the love of the game/stats and if he gets another ring or two I am sure that would make it even more worth his time/effort he has dedicated to the game

but all this talk about him moving up or down is just poppycock because we have seen plenty of enough from him to place him where he needs to be, one of the best most dominant ever circle,etched in stone

everything is up for debate just depends on how much weight and facts it carries over

More-Than-Most
05-06-2017, 06:54 PM
hes in my top 20 all time lol


Take away the 0 in 20 and you get where lebron is ranked.

lol, please
05-06-2017, 07:06 PM
hes in my top 20 all time lol


Take away the 0 in 20 and you get where lebron is ranked.

That's cool and all but it's subjective, and your opinion. I don't even have him in my top 10.



I ignore statistical dominance when it's the sole foundation of an argument and there is a refusal to consider the context of era differences and talent depth disparities.

More-Than-Most
05-06-2017, 08:41 PM
That's cool and all but it's subjective, and your opinion. I don't even have him in my top 10.



I ignore statistical dominance when it's the sole foundation of an argument and there is a refusal to consider the context of era differences and talent depth disparities.

yea but you are in the very low minority where is the majority has him top 5 with a ton of weight to back it up where the minority just has hate

Jamiecballer
05-06-2017, 09:27 PM
That's cool and all but it's subjective, and your opinion. I don't even have him in my top 10.



I ignore statistical dominance when it's the sole foundation of an argument and there is a refusal to consider the context of era differences and talent depth disparities.
But you have the Warriors as the only team that could stop the juggernaut raptors

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

JasonJohnHorn
05-06-2017, 09:57 PM
Hope GS wins it all.

Really... Pacers, Raptors Tics/Wiz? Lololololol yea he's amazing.


WOW!! Such an ignorant comment.

"Oh yeah... LBJ is great... beating sub-par teams. Go Warrior!"

How about: "I love a team that stacked with the best PG, the best SG, arguably the best SF and a top-three PF in the league and then I mocked somebody else who is playing because I don't think the teams they are playing against are very good, even though the team I root for is stacked and playing teams whose records (Portland and Utah) aren't any better than the teams the Cavs are beating and they'll be facing and injury bitten Spurs teams who are missing their HOF point guard."

You know what... the Warriors are amazing. LBJ is amazing. LBJ is playing at an amazingly high level against playoff teams. The Warriors are playing at an amazingly high level against playoff teams.

Props to both.

Let's try not to discredit the accomplishments of either with flawed arguments that betray overt personal biases and just enjoy these exceptional performances.

JasonJohnHorn
05-06-2017, 10:00 PM
I gotta say.... this performance makes it look like he was kinda coasting in the regular season. He would have won MVP hands-down playing like this all year. Coasting... or pacing himself. Not a knock on him. It was actually smart.

And to those who complain about this generation 'resting' or 'coasting', let us know forget the words of young Joey , whose father offered him sage analysis on Kareem's regular season performances: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArHNrCvwq4c

FlashBolt
05-06-2017, 11:07 PM
I gotta say.... this performance makes it look like he was kinda coasting in the regular season. He would have won MVP hands-down playing like this all year. Coasting... or pacing himself. Not a knock on him. It was actually smart.

And to those who complain about this generation 'resting' or 'coasting', let us know forget the words of young Joey , whose father offered him sage analysis on Kareem's regular season performances: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArHNrCvwq4c

I didn't think it was a secret that he was coasting. If LeBron wanted to hog the ball and go for the MVP like some of the other guys are doing, he'd be MVP.

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 01:11 AM
Oh well do enlighten us as it does. I'm glad you have it all figured out.

Figured it out many years ago, it shouldn't have taken you this long to figure out where Lebron would be if you were such a student of the game, Lebron was a monster day 1, fact

More-Than-Most
05-07-2017, 01:20 AM
When is the last time lebron wasnt the overall best playoff performer in one post season? Honestly asking because I am curious because right now KL and him are head to head next level so that had me thinking of the last time someone else was this close to the GOAT

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 01:20 AM
yea but you are in the very low minority where is the majority has him top 5 with a ton of weight to back it up where the minority just has hate

The majority doesn't mean you are correct at all, its a majority of sheep in the world that follow and copy but doesn't make them right, its a majority who think 2PAC is the GOAT rapper but doesn't mean he is, its a majority who think Elvis is the king of rock n roll but doesn't make them right, I said Lebron was one of the best ever years ago and others didn't think so but it didn't mean I was right, but now that everyone else is saying it I guess I was on to something, I said Lebron didn't need a ring to be in the best circle but others disagreed, now that he has 3 rings it still doesn't change a damn thing for me because I saw it his first 3 yrs in the league, you are 14yrs too late

if you have him top 5 good for you, if you have him number 1 good for you and if someone has him top 10 good for them

I see its fanatical love you have for Lebron especially when you call someone a hater for not agreeing with you, that's weak, man up

More-Than-Most
05-07-2017, 01:22 AM
lebron isnt stupid... he wont be gauged for his regular season MVP... He will always be gauged by people for his championships or playoff performances... He isnt going to go all out during the season and be tired in the playoffs with how much he has played throughout his career... He is already at the age of what 32 about to pass Jordan in Total minutes player... Its moronic for him to go hard during the regular season.. Its why the cavs didnt care about the number 1 seed.

More-Than-Most
05-07-2017, 01:25 AM
The majority doesn't mean you are correct at all, its a majority of sheep in the world that follow and copy but doesn't make them right, its a majority who think 2PAC is the GOAT rapper but doesn't mean he is, its a majority who think Elvis is the king of rock n roll but doesn't make them right, I said Lebron was one of the best ever years ago and others didn't think so but it didn't mean I was right, but now that everyone else is saying it I guess I was on to something, I said Lebron didn't need a ring to be in the best circle but others disagreed, now that he has 3 rings it still doesn't change a damn thing for me because I saw it his first 3 yrs in the league, you are 14yrs too late

if you have him top 5 good for you, if you have him number 1 good for you and if someone has him top 10 good for them

I see its fanatical love you have for Lebron especially when you call someone a hater for not agreeing with you, that's weak, man up

Nope but the statistical out put etc etc and the weight I can use to back up my argument plus his physical ability/defense and how he guards or plays every position means my opinion is more valued than yours... You and others have no argument to have him outside of your top 10... There is 0 argument... He is 2-7 right now period BECAUSE the evidence points exactly to that.

Tell me why lebron isnt top 10.. Give me anything and I will not only refute it but obliterate it with counter arguments on why he is... In coming your opinion is your opinion yada yada yada yada BS.

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 01:25 AM
When is the last time lebron wasnt the overall best playoff performer in one post season? Honestly asking because I am curious because right now KL and him are head to head next level so that had me thinking of the last time someone else was this close to the GOAT

When was Lebron not the best or top 3 best regular 82 game season performer? the best tend to carry over to the postseason, its way more impressive to do it for 82 games then in 7 game stretches which some may go only 4 games if a sweep happens

Leonard has done this for 9 games but did it for the 75 or so games earlier this season so he carried what he was already doing to the postseason, same thing his coach has done for the past 20yrs for the most part

I get it that the playoffs are a win or go home mode but don't discount the regular season by any means

More-Than-Most
05-07-2017, 01:27 AM
When was Lebron not the best or top 3 best regular 82 game season performer? the best tend to carry over to the postseason, its way more impressive to do it for 82 games then in 7 game stretches which some may go only 4 games if a sweep happens

Leonard has done this for 9 games but did it for the 75 or so games earlier this season so he carried what he was already doing to the postseason, same thing his coach has done for the past 20yrs for the most part

I get it that the playoffs are a win or go home mode but don't discount the regular season by any means

You 100 percent can discount regular seasons for a guy that has been to a finals 50 straight years in a row and has played as many minutes as him and still is a top 3 player in the regular season but then explodes in the playoffs for GOAT like numbers to prove if he wanted to avg a trip/double he could... If he wanted to lead the league in scoring he could... If he wanted to win the MVP every year which quite frankly he has deserved most years and has been robbed off about 3 of them plus defensive players of the year he easily could... THE FACTS BACK THIS UP.



Whats more impressive? Going against the pacers/raptors/celtics/warriors every 2 days for 2 months or going against 1 good team followed by a few bad teams followed by 4 days off followed by bad teams for 5-6 months? BOOM

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 01:42 AM
lebron isnt stupid... he wont be gauged for his regular season MVP... He will always be gauged by people for his championships or playoff performances... He isnt going to go all out during the season and be tired in the playoffs with how much he has played throughout his career... He is already at the age of what 32 about to pass Jordan in Total minutes player... Its moronic for him to go hard during the regular season.. Its why the cavs didnt care about the number 1 seed.

Lebron isn't stupid but lets not act like he is the same guy who was tomahawking with his head level with the rim like he use to do ,its a reason he doesn't dunk that way anymore because he has lost that super spring along with the energy and bounce to do those chase down blocks that he did at super high rate years ago, now he picks and chooses when to do it because of the mileage/inability factor/energy, the Heat didn't care about the number 1 seed when he was over there but he had more energy to burn because he was younger and more hungrier since he was finally on a true title contending team, Lebron paces himself for good reason and part of that reason is he is not 25 like Leonard anymore and cant guard the way he use to so he picks and chooses when to lock up a certain player in moments instead of the entire game like he use to do like Leonard does now

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 01:49 AM
You 100 percent can discount regular seasons for a guy that has been to a finals 50 straight years in a row and has played as many minutes as him and still is a top 3 player in the regular season but then explodes in the playoffs for GOAT like numbers to prove if he wanted to avg a trip/double he could... If he wanted to lead the league in scoring he could... If he wanted to win the MVP every year which quite frankly he has deserved most years and has been robbed off about 3 of them plus defensive players of the year he easily could... THE FACTS BACK THIS UP.



Whats more impressive? Going against the pacers/raptors/celtics/warriors every 2 days for 2 months or going against 1 good team followed by a few bad teams followed by 4 days off followed by bad teams for 5-6 months? BOOM


Your facts are wrong because it hasn't been 50 straight years even though I know you didn't mean it literally, I never said he couldn't win mvp I said its a carry over from what he is doing in the regular season over 80 games or whatever he played along with the way Leonard played, so 80 games of doing it is more impressive than a 9 game sample of Leonard and Lebron has been a top 3 regular season performer for a long while so how is his 7 game playoff sample so impressive when he has been doing this for in your words 50 straight years in a row? if he wanted to win MVP then his team should carry the best record every year like the years he did win the MVP's he got already because we know he will have the numbers to compete for it but that w-l record wont cut it

Lebron avg like 27/7/7 for his career so he always was basically flirting with a triple double and I almost made a bet when he came back to Cavs that he would avg. one but it doesn't take for me to watch him play 7 games this postseason to figure out he could have avg a triple double, that is stupid when I have watched him for years put up triple doubles or come close to it in many games over

according to you and your nuthugging of Lebron if he wanted to he could have won all 7 of his Finals appearances also right? I mean all 50 Finals appearances according to you, right?

a 7-0 Finals record would definitely have him clear cut GOAT by a landslide right? that is more impressive than 6-0 right? BOOM

More-Than-Most
05-07-2017, 01:55 AM
Your facts are wrong because it hasn't been 50 straight years even though I know you didn't mean it literally, I never said he couldn't win mvp I said its a carry over from what he is doing in the regular season over 80 games or whatever he played along with the way Leonard played, so 80 games of doing it is more impressive than a 9 game sample of Leonard and Lebron has been a top 3 regular season performer for a long while so how is his 7 game playoff sample so impressive when he has been doing this for in your words 50 straight years in a row? if he wanted to win MVP then his team should carry the best record every year like the years he did win the MVP's he got already because we know he will have the numbers to compete for it but that w-l record wont cut it

according to you and your nuthugging of Lebron if he wanted to he could have won all 7 of his Finals appearances also right? I mean all 50 Finals appearances according to you, right?

a 7-0 Finals record would definitely have him clear cut GOAT by a landslide right? that is more impressive than 6-0 right? BOOM

nope because its a team game... you wanna hear jordans record in the playoffs without pippen? 1-9... Again you dont use facts at all and have nothing to back up any of your opinions.

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 01:57 AM
Nope but the statistical out put etc etc and the weight I can use to back up my argument plus his physical ability/defense and how he guards or plays every position means my opinion is more valued than yours... You and others have no argument to have him outside of your top 10... There is 0 argument... He is 2-7 right now period BECAUSE the evidence points exactly to that.

Tell me why lebron isnt top 10.. Give me anything and I will not only refute it but obliterate it with counter arguments on why he is... In coming your opinion is your opinion yada yada yada yada BS.

You must be a little slow because last I checked 2-7 fits into a box of 20, so either you are slow or just reaching for straws, I never tried to argue Lebron wasn't one of the best most dominant players ever

I could make a great case for 2Pac being the GOAT rapper but doesn't mean my opinion would be any more valued than someone saying Rakim/IceCube/LL Cool J/Nas is the GOAT

you cant obliterate me when I never said I wouldn't draft him 2-7, it was the number someone threw out there and I ran with it, 4-17th to be exact and last I checked on numbers it goes 2,3 and then 4 and after that comes 5 and 6 and 7, similar to the Lebron/Heat honeymoon they had on tv when he signed there and said how many rings they would end up winning but they had to settle for 2 rings, but I am sure if Lebron wanted to win those 7 rings he would have according to you and your facts, now obliterate that

LA_Raiders
05-07-2017, 01:58 AM
Yeah, he has been stacking stats vs the Easy.

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 02:01 AM
nope because its a team game... you wanna hear jordans record in the playoffs without pippen? 1-9... Again you dont use facts at all and have nothing to back up any of your opinions.

I said Lebron has performed at top 3 level during regular season for years and that isn't facts? the regular season of 82 games isn't longer than a at most 28 game playoff season? those aren't facts? I know what Jordan record in the playoffs were when he didn't have Pippen so what does that mean? you the one who said Lebron could do this and do that if he wanted to so I asked you could he have won all 7 of his Finals trips if he wanted to because according to you he could have easily based on the other madness you scream about over and over

Leonard hasn't played 9 games in the playoffs this year? they beat Memphis in 6 and up 2-1 against Rockets? those aren't facts? Lebron has played 7 games this postseason so those aren't facts? wow you are one confused dude, confused ''more than most'' out here

aman_13
05-07-2017, 02:19 AM
Figured it out many years ago, it shouldn't have taken you this long to figure out where Lebron would be if you were such a student of the game, Lebron was a monster day 1, fact

I can't believe I missed it. I'm go read basketball books.

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 02:22 AM
I can't believe I missed it. I'm go read basketball books.

Go play some ball as well and it will make it easier to overstand how to judge certain players, especially the most dominant ones

next time you play ball at the park/gym make sure you make a list of who was the best players there and that should give you a decent head start on how to figure out something so basic

aman_13
05-07-2017, 02:36 AM
Go play some ball as well and it will make it easier to overstand how to judge certain players, especially the most dominant ones

next time you play ball at the park/gym make sure you make a list of who was the best players there and that should give you a decent head start on how to figure out something so basic

Is that what you did? I want to follow your path, so I can also have this great knowledge of basketball that you possess.

I mean you predicted LeBron was going to be one of the best ever. Who would have thought?

One Nut Kruk
05-07-2017, 12:17 PM
Lebron without the wade

17 post season series wins
8 winning seasons
Post season record 72-36


MJ Without Pippen

0 playoff series wins
0 winning seasons
1-9 in the playoffs

You'll just cherry pick anything to fit your narrative eh?

Perhaps Lebron would have had a similar start to his playoff record if he actually would have made the playoffs those first couple of years

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 12:29 PM
Is that what you did? I want to follow your path, so I can also have this great knowledge of basketball that you possess.

I mean you predicted LeBron was going to be one of the best ever. Who would have thought?

I had Lebron in my top circle his rookie year while most wanted to wait and see if he would win rings and other dumb **** that supposedly makes you a incredible player, follow your own path/self because I don't like sheep, I like leaders, I am pretty sure you had Lebron as one of the best ever within the past few yrs, or maybe you just figured it out yesterday

it didn't take great knowledge to figure out who Lebron was and going to be pre NBA, same with the others I have in my circle of most dominant best ever, pretty easy if you studied/watched and played the game, which I assume you did neither but maybe you did and if you did then maybe you are watching from a different planet

effen5
05-07-2017, 12:32 PM
You'll just cherry pick anything to fit your narrative eh?

Perhaps Lebron would have had a similar start to his playoff record if he actually would have made the playoffs those first couple of years

It's not even that, the east has been an absolute JOKE the last decade, and it doesn't even compare to the east when Jordan played. It's not even close.

Lebron has had zero competition in the playoffs in the east since Thibs got fired from the Bulls.

Put everything into context.

One Nut Kruk
05-07-2017, 12:42 PM
It's not even that, the east has been an absolute JOKE the last decade, and it doesn't even compare to the east when Jordan played. It's not even close.

Lebron has had zero competition in the playoffs in the east since Thibs got fired from the Bulls.

Put everything into context.

Not to mention it was an absolute ridiculous comparison anyway.

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 12:52 PM
It's not even that, the east has been an absolute JOKE the last decade, and it doesn't even compare to the east when Jordan played. It's not even close.

Lebron has had zero competition in the playoffs in the east since Thibs got fired from the Bulls.

Put everything into context.

Correct, its like they play musical chairs every since Lebron formed that so called superteam in South Beach

every year its another fake contender out East which means its no real challenge/rivalry, even when Indy was there it was fake and the Bulls were the toughest matchup but they fizzled out fast especially after the Rose injury, the Celtics were injured with key guys KG/Rondo and still pushed them to 7 during Lebron Heat tenure, and the Hawks were a 60 win team and everybody knew they weren't legit title contenders, when Lebron had his really only rivalry with the 08-10' Celtics he couldn't win, and against his other true only rival from a Finals standpoint vs. the Spurs he is 1-2 and looking like a 3peat with Warriors he could end up being either 1 over/under 500.

its been like 3-5 teams as favorites to win or truly contend for the title in the past decade and Lebron has been on two of those teams, the others were Lakers/Spurs and now Warriors, in a 30 league team that is as weak as you can ever get

thing is from his fanatics on here is when he wins its all Lebron and blah blah blah but when he loses its he didn't have enough help/its a team game but not realizing his teams also have benefited from other teams losing key players to injuries like Rose/George to weaken those teams who were supposed to challenge him out East, then Dray gets suspended and Bogut got injured to help that 3-1 comeback

I root for Lebron more than anybody on here but I be damn if I wont call a spade a spade

Wilt to me is the most dominant solo act ever by far but I be damn if I try to sit up here and defend him and say he is a really good free throw shooter when he sucked at it pretty much outside of shooting like 62pct in college

mngopher35
05-07-2017, 01:15 PM
Mmm wilt is a top 25 player in the end but not at the very top spot of the list, at least to me. Have to take the context of league/numbers at the time which knock him down a bit probably if you weren't factoring it in.

Again he was a good player but not #1, like top 25ish. Top 30 for sure.

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2017, 01:43 PM
Mmm wilt is a top 25 player in the end but not at the very top spot of the list, at least to me. Have to take the context of league/numbers at the time which knock him down a bit probably if you weren't factoring it in.

Again he was a good player but not #1, like top 25ish. Top 30 for sure.

who cares when and where he played, it doesn't take away from Ruth and Ali/Sugar Ray/J Louis and J Brown and others who have played when they dominated a certain era, I factor it all in because each era is watered down and expansion makes the league weaker not stronger if you really think about it

if Wilt would have avg 15 and 10 then you would be on to something but dude avg damn near 40 and 30 with 20 blocks a game and probably around 5-10 steals per game since rookie year and did it for his first 7 seasons basically, again he is the most dominant solo act ever, I would draft him over any player to start a franchise in any era

where you have him ranked is all good because he put up such mythical numbers it is hard for the simple mind to grasp, I just wouldn't hire you to be my GM, maybe water/statboy

he changed the league because of his individual dominance, that's the thing you have to look at also, he changed the way the game was played and had all the moves from the fadeaway bankshot to the finger roll to dunking his free throws and so on, dunking on 12ft rims and they changed rules to hinder him, not help him like they did for today modern players

him being a good player was when he was in his late Laker stages coming off double knee surgery, he was good then and still led the nba with 18rpg his final season

aman_13
05-07-2017, 02:06 PM
I had Lebron in my top circle his rookie year while most wanted to wait and see if he would win rings and other dumb **** that supposedly makes you a incredible player, follow your own path/self because I don't like sheep, I like leaders, I am pretty sure you had Lebron as one of the best ever within the past few yrs, or maybe you just figured it out yesterday

it didn't take great knowledge to figure out who Lebron was and going to be pre NBA, same with the others I have in my circle of most dominant best ever, pretty easy if you studied/watched and played the game, which I assume you did neither but maybe you did and if you did then maybe you are watching from a different planet

There were many people who thought LeBron had the tools to be one of the best ever in high school. That was not hard to see. The fact that you have to point that out when it was acknowledged by the masses is hilarious.

I replied to your original post because I disagreed with the notion that LeBron can't add to his legacy or solidify his ranking, if he defeats one of greatest teams ever. If you don't need him to do that, good for you.

mngopher35
05-07-2017, 02:13 PM
Mmm wilt is a top 25 player in the end but not at the very top spot of the list, at least to me. Have to take the context of league/numbers at the time which knock him down a bit probably if you weren't factoring it in.

Again he was a good player but not #1, like top 25ish. Top 30 for sure.

who cares when and where he played, it doesn't take away from Ruth and Ali/Sugar Ray/J Louis and J Brown and others who have played when they dominated a certain era, I factor it all in because each era is watered down and expansion makes the league weaker not stronger if you really think about it

if Wilt would have avg 15 and 10 then you would be on to something but dude avg damn near 40 and 30 with 20 blocks a game and probably around 5-10 steals per game since rookie year and did it for his first 7 seasons basically, again he is the most dominant solo act ever, I would draft him over any player to start a franchise in any era

where you have him ranked is all good because he put up such mythical numbers it is hard for the simple mind to grasp, I just wouldn't hire you to be my GM, maybe water/statboy

he changed the league because of his individual dominance, that's the thing you have to look at also, he changed the way the game was played and had all the moves from the fadeaway bankshot to the finger roll to dunking his free throws and so on, dunking on 12ft rims and they changed rules to hinder him, not help him like they did for today modern players

him being a good player was when he was in his late Laker stages coming off double knee surgery, he was good then and still led the nba with 18rpg his final season

Just because I don't have him #1 I am now water/statboy? Can't be gm just because I disagree he's first? I just pointed out to take it in context and adjust for pace and size of league etc that's it.

He was definitely amazing and is in my top 30 for sure so I give him plenty of credit. I wouldn't put him at 1 still.

Chronz
05-07-2017, 07:29 PM
Of course he can add stats/numbers if he keeps playing the game and doesn't quit/retire/get injured, no debating that at all

its what players do after 14 yrs, keep balling until its over

his legacy is set in stone, he has nothing to prove and playing for the love of the game/stats and if he gets another ring or two I am sure that would make it even more worth his time/effort he has dedicated to the game

but all this talk about him moving up or down is just poppycock because we have seen plenty of enough from him to place him where he needs to be, one of the best most dominant ever circle,etched in stone

everything is up for debate just depends on how much weight and facts it carries over

Bron disagrees that he's done adding to his legacy. I'll take his opinion here

Lil Rhody
05-07-2017, 07:40 PM
I just can't believe how much his shot has improved over the last few seasons. That should keep him going for a lot longer

IKnowHoops
05-07-2017, 08:09 PM
I've always known he would be the all time leader in points during the regular season. But with the ability he is still showing, he is going to put the record so far away, it won't be broken in our lifetime.

nastynice
05-07-2017, 08:23 PM
anyone except the cavs would be underdogs against spurs/warriors much like anyone out west will probably be underdogs coming out west against the cavs except the warriors... I dont see how Boston/washington/Raptors are any different out west outside of the spurs/warriors.

Celtics defense beats the rockets

No, you could take your top handful of west teams, they'd be favored against every single top handful of east teams outside of Lebron's.

Only the Cavs can come out the west and not be severely outmatched. From the west, this year not as much, but always had 4-7 teams that could come out favored against any lebron less east team

tredigs
05-08-2017, 12:38 AM
I've always known he would be the all time leader in points during the regular season. But with the ability he is still showing, he is going to put the record so far away, it won't be broken in our lifetime.

Lmao, pull your pants up ikh.

valade16
05-08-2017, 12:53 AM
I've always known he would be the all time leader in points during the regular season. But with the ability he is still showing, he is going to put the record so far away, it won't be broken in our lifetime.

He' said 10,000 points off now. That's 2,000 points for the next 5 years. He hasn't scored 2,000 points in a season since 2014. He'll have to play until he's 38 with almost no drop-off in scoring, or until 40-41 with a little drop-off.

He has a chance to break it but he won't have a ton of time to pile on. And considering how quickly after MJ we got LeBron, I can easily see someone coming along fairly soon to challenge his record.

tredigs
05-08-2017, 01:06 AM
He' said 10,000 points off now. That's 2,000 points for the next 5 years. He hasn't scored 2,000 points in a season since 2014. He'll have to play until he's 38 with almost no drop-off in scoring, or until 40-41 with a little drop-off.

He has a chance to break it but he won't have a ton of time to pile on. And considering how quickly after MJ we got LeBron, I can easily see someone coming along fairly soon to challenge his record.

To add to this, nobody cares either way if we are being honest. His last Finals win matters, longevity is not high up in the meter.

More-Than-Most
05-08-2017, 02:30 AM
To add to this, nobody cares either way if we are being honest. His last Finals win matters, longevity is not high up in the meter.

this is just stupid... When is the last one to pass the scoring record? When it happens it will matter if it happens and it will be a huge ****ing deal... Everyone will care if we are being honest... Its been there for a long ****ing time... We get it you now hate lebron because he put your team over his knee but all these records will be a huge ****ing deal when or if he breaks them because they are records that have not been broken in a long long time... See brett favre passing marino etc etc etc... It will just further add to his legacy when all is said and done and whomever ends up passing him as well.

When everyone talks of kobe and duncan what gets brought up? LONGEVITY... Lebron and longevity will be that much more impactful if he does continue to stay at this level or a level near this level for a few more years... Nobody has been this good for that long if he remains this way.

IKnowHoops
05-08-2017, 05:32 AM
To add to this, nobody cares either way if we are being honest. His last Finals win matters, longevity is not high up in the meter.

Yeah, cause it happens all the time...wait, no it doesn't. You won't care Tre because you can't stand Lebron, but longevity always matter. Him holding records matters.

IKnowHoops
05-08-2017, 05:34 AM
He' said 10,000 points off now. That's 2,000 points for the next 5 years. He hasn't scored 2,000 points in a season since 2014. He'll have to play until he's 38 with almost no drop-off in scoring, or until 40-41 with a little drop-off.

He has a chance to break it but he won't have a ton of time to pile on. And considering how quickly after MJ we got LeBron, I can easily see someone coming along fairly soon to challenge his record.

He will break it easily. And it's not since MJ, it's since Kareem. Lebron will still be a beast at 40.

Heediot
05-08-2017, 07:28 AM
He will break it easily. And it's not since MJ, it's since Kareem. Lebron will still be a beast at 40.

Take it easy. Almost all the top GOAT players were at or close to their peak at 32 years of age. Bird was doomed by back problems and Magic had aids, so they are out of the picture. It's easy to think LeBron will perform like a beast at 40, but if a hall of fame calibre player doesn't perform at or close to his peak at his current age then there should be concerns just my take.

Scoots
05-08-2017, 07:56 AM
He' said 10,000 points off now. That's 2,000 points for the next 5 years. He hasn't scored 2,000 points in a season since 2014. He'll have to play until he's 38 with almost no drop-off in scoring, or until 40-41 with a little drop-off.

He has a chance to break it but he won't have a ton of time to pile on. And considering how quickly after MJ we got LeBron, I can easily see someone coming along fairly soon to challenge his record.

Particularly with the change in pace in the NBA and the explosion of using the 3.

Scoots
05-08-2017, 08:00 AM
At some point, before he's 40, he's going to realize how hard it is, how much is in the bank, how much is coming in from sources other than an NBA team, how he's missing his kids lives, how he'd rather be on a banana boat in May ... and he'll retire.

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2017, 09:23 AM
There were many people who thought LeBron had the tools to be one of the best ever in high school. That was not hard to see. The fact that you have to point that out when it was acknowledged by the masses is hilarious.

I replied to your original post because I disagreed with the notion that LeBron can't add to his legacy or solidify his ranking, if he defeats one of greatest teams ever. If you don't need him to do that, good for you.

Lebron can add on but it doesn't boost or make him go down spots like current people on here speak of and anywhere else, like he is adding on right now by sweeping teams but its not really a big deal, just like him putting up his numbers as well, its adding on but his legacy is pretty much etched in stone for what he is and hasa been, even he said he has nothing to prove so that sounds like a legacy pretty much set

it were many people who thought he had the tools but it was very few who said he is one of the best ever after his rookie year in the nba, big difference there

if you need him to defeat one of the greatest teams ever to solidify or add to his legacy triple good for you

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2017, 09:26 AM
Bron disagrees that he's done adding to his legacy. I'll take his opinion here

Good job elroy, take it with a grain of sea salt and spirulina with a little bit of lemon juice

your one liners are boring, you are more credible than this, go hide in your Clippers cave and do some state farm commercials with CP3, and teach Jordan how to shoot free throws

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2017, 09:36 AM
Just because I don't have him #1 I am now water/statboy? Can't be gm just because I disagree he's first? I just pointed out to take it in context and adjust for pace and size of league etc that's it.

He was definitely amazing and is in my top 30 for sure so I give him plenty of credit. I wouldn't put him at 1 still.

basing it on if we did a draft to start a franchise and we had him on the draft board/available and you didn't draft him as my GM you would be fired, so no you wouldn't last as my GM, so I would hire you and then fire you if you pulled off a ignorant move like that, I have him in my circle of 20-25 most dominant best ever so having him in your top 30 is all good, I was speaking on starting a franchise from scratch not about having him number 1 on a list/ranking, of course he was amazing, you don't put up those type of numbers if you aren't

Vee-Rex
05-08-2017, 09:36 AM
At some point, before he's 40, he's going to realize how hard it is, how much is in the bank, how much is coming in from sources other than an NBA team, how he's missing his kids lives, how he'd rather be on a banana boat in May ... and he'll retire.

This.

Not to mention the potential for injury just skyrockets after a certain point. We're all used to 'Bron being superman and everything but father time is undefeated. 'Bron will show noticeable decline in the next 2 or 3 years.

Hawkeye15
05-08-2017, 10:01 AM
To add to this, nobody cares either way if we are being honest. His last Finals win matters, longevity is not high up in the meter.

meh, I think it matters. You would have to give credit to the guy for playing insane minutes since age 18, never getting hurt, and producing like a mother. It's a part of why Bird for example is limited on how high his ranking can go to me. And why Kareem (on top of many other things) gets even more credit.

It's hard to be awesome for a long, long time in sports.

FlashBolt
05-08-2017, 10:52 AM
LeBron has said it's pretty cool to be able to play with or against his son so there's that. Dude seems goal-oriented as hell so it's probably likely he'll at least ask himself if he wants to do it. I think he'll do it and he'll probably be the only guy capable of breaking it currently. It's insane how good he's been for so long.

valade16
05-08-2017, 10:53 AM
This.

Not to mention the potential for injury just skyrockets after a certain point. We're all used to 'Bron being superman and everything but father time is undefeated. 'Bron will show noticeable decline in the next 2 or 3 years.

I remember when Kobe was at 32,000 points at 34 and was considered a lock to break the mark. We all saw how that turned out.

Heediot
05-08-2017, 10:54 AM
meh, I think it matters. You would have to give credit to the guy for playing insane minutes since age 18, never getting hurt, and producing like a mother. It's a part of why Bird for example is limited on how high his ranking can go to me. And why Kareem (on top of many other things) gets even more credit.

It's hard to be awesome for a long, long time in sports.

I know in the NFL some positions have shorter life spans, like rbs and deep threat wr's. cbs sometimes convert to safeties. nhl defensemen age well. base ball players without roids lose power and velocity and speed as they age.

I wonder which positions in the nba age better vs. others? It's kinda obvious that skilled player age better vs. athletic ones (Paul vs. Rose, both has gruesome knee injuries - one is a perennial all nba the other has fallen off a cliff). Jordan aged well, Duncan, KG, Mailman, Kareem, Stockton. It seems pretty spread out nicely by position on how guys games translate as they age.

Hawkeye15
05-08-2017, 11:04 AM
I know in the NFL some positions have shorter life spans, like rbs and deep threat wr's. cbs sometimes convert to safeties. nhl defensemen age well. base ball players without roids lose power and velocity and speed as they age.

I wonder which positions in the nba age better vs. others? It's kinda obvious that skilled player age better vs. athletic ones (Paul vs. Rose, both has gruesome knee injuries - one is a perennial all nba the other has fallen off a cliff). Jordan aged well, Duncan, KG, Mailman, Kareem, Stockton. It seems pretty spread out nicely by position on how guys games translate as they age.

well, you need to avoid lower body injuries to start with (even guards are large men in real life). But yeah, skill ages better. Baseball hitting requires speed, so age hurts you, but skill can keep you around (everyone knows baseball/softball has a lot of fatties, so crazy athletic ability obviously isn't a MUST). NFL is just so brutal on the body. NHL I am still getting familiar with haha.

Duncan's shift to C helped. I would imagine health is the #1 key, skill #2. Like, height and shooting ability never decline. Or height and passing.

Guys like John Wall, and Russell Westbrook, will fall off a cliff imo (Iverson like). They are so reliant on athletic ability. Guys like Curry will age amazing.

Hawkeye15
05-08-2017, 11:05 AM
I remember when Kobe was at 32,000 points at 34 and was considered a lock to break the mark. We all saw how that turned out.

and similar enough to Bron', Kobe was a cyborg when it came to staying healthy. It all turned in an instant.

tredigs
05-08-2017, 11:10 AM
meh, I think it matters. You would have to give credit to the guy for playing insane minutes since age 18, never getting hurt, and producing like a mother. It's a part of why Bird for example is limited on how high his ranking can go to me. And why Kareem (on top of many other things) gets even more credit.

It's hard to be awesome for a long, long time in sports.

Of course longevity in general matters (so long as it is at a high level), but while most playoff points or assists etc are a nice feather, the reality is that nobody cares. It is never, ever brought up. I had no idea MJ was #1 or KAJ #2 until this week (though I do know that MJ has the highest playoff ppg average at North of 30 a game, ditto highest Finals ppg average).

FlashBolt
05-08-2017, 11:11 AM
I'm not putting Kobe on the same level as LeBron in terms of staying healthy. They're completely two different players. LeBron does his best to preserve his body - moreso than Kobe. LeBron at this age has looked more healthy than Kobe has ever looked. Plus, LeBron's overall game has allowed him to not work as difficult for his shots. When Kobe was at age 32, did anyone say he was the best player? I mean, LeBron this season is better than any season Kobe generated. They're not close.

Hawkeye15
05-08-2017, 11:13 AM
Of course longevity in general matters (so long as it is at a high level), but while most playoff points or assists etc are a nice feather, the reality is that nobody cares. It is never, ever brought up. I had no idea MJ was #1 or KAJ #2 until this week (though I do know that MJ has the highest playoff ppg average at North of 30 a game, ditto highest Finals ppg average).

well yeah, they aren't much of a factor. Meaning they mean nothing more to me than the high accumulation of other numbers, which all lumps into one part of the equation when ranking-longevity.

Hawkeye15
05-08-2017, 11:16 AM
I'm not putting Kobe on the same level as LeBron in terms of staying healthy. They're completely two different players. LeBron does his best to preserve his body - moreso than Kobe. LeBron at this age has looked more healthy than Kobe has ever looked. Plus, LeBron's overall game has allowed him to not work as difficult for his shots. When Kobe was at age 32, did anyone say he was the best player? I mean, LeBron this season is better than any season Kobe generated. They're not close.

b.s. Kobe's fitness/nutrition routine were legendary. He prided himself on taking care of his body.

Kobe just wasn't the player/athlete LeBron is. But he was just as hard working, and smart at his craft.

FlashBolt
05-08-2017, 11:18 AM
b.s. Kobe's fitness/nutrition routine were legendary. He prided himself on taking care of his body.

Kobe just wasn't the player/athlete LeBron is. But he was just as hard working, and smart at his craft.

From what I know and seen, LeBron spends $2 million just to rehab his body. He goes into some chamber thing for hours every game or so just to preserve his body. I'm not doubting Kobe never took care of his body but I don't think it's of the same magnitude LeBron is doing it at. Hard working and smart doesn't cut it. Genetics play a large role in delaying father time and LeBron has that advantage in every shape or form. We've seen a player like Kobe before. We've never seen a guy like LeBron. Gotta give him the benefit of a doubt that this guy is breaking the barrier on what an athlete is or can be.

mngopher35
05-08-2017, 11:20 AM
Just because I don't have him #1 I am now water/statboy? Can't be gm just because I disagree he's first? I just pointed out to take it in context and adjust for pace and size of league etc that's it.

He was definitely amazing and is in my top 30 for sure so I give him plenty of credit. I wouldn't put him at 1 still.

basing it on if we did a draft to start a franchise and we had him on the draft board/available and you didn't draft him as my GM you would be fired, so no you wouldn't last as my GM, so I would hire you and then fire you if you pulled off a ignorant move like that, I have him in my circle of 20-25 most dominant best ever so having him in your top 30 is all good, I was speaking on starting a franchise from scratch not about having him number 1 on a list/ranking, of course he was amazing, you don't put up those type of numbers if you aren't

So it's ignorant not to choose wilt at one just because that's where you have him? Like you say I have him in my top 30 players too so I give him tons of credit. That top 30 means I would draft him that high if starting a franchise too. There have been tons of great players in history so it's really a compliment putting wilt with other top greats like we have.

I dunno why it's ignorant/water boy level to simply disagree wilt is at #1, seems like maybe you are just biased towards him or something. Like I said he'd be drafted top 30 for sure like a lot of the others greats just not at 1 for me so he gets tons of credit still.

Hawkeye15
05-08-2017, 11:27 AM
From what I know and seen, LeBron spends $2 million just to rehab his body. He goes into some chamber thing for hours every game or so just to preserve his body. I'm not doubting Kobe never took care of his body but I don't think it's of the same magnitude LeBron is doing it at. Hard working and smart doesn't cut it. Genetics play a large role in delaying father time and LeBron has that advantage in every shape or form. We've seen a player like Kobe before. We've never seen a guy like LeBron. Gotta give him the benefit of a doubt that this guy is breaking the barrier on what an athlete is or can be.

sorry if I came off harsh, but yeah man, Kobe took care of his body like no athlete I have seen. Remember, he went to Germany for knee transfusion, he has been looked at by many players as the pinnacle of how to take care of your body during a career. He was much older than LeBron when it comes to how they trained. Kobe didn't have the compression chambers, and many things athletes are starting to do now during his run. He did it all through nutrition, exercise, treatment, etc.

Of course LeBron has a genetic advantage. He has it over 99.9% of the population.

I just think you picked an odd debate, seeing as Kobe is considered by many as the example of how to take care of yourself. He never missed time. Like ever, even with a lingering elbow injury for years. His finger was mutilated, he never missed time. LeBron's genetics take a dump on anyone's, I don't even know if he feels pain (though he sure acts like it).

tredigs
05-08-2017, 12:09 PM
From what I know and seen, LeBron spends $2 million just to rehab his body. He goes into some chamber thing for hours every game or so just to preserve his body. I'm not doubting Kobe never took care of his body but I don't think it's of the same magnitude LeBron is doing it at. Hard working and smart doesn't cut it. Genetics play a large role in delaying father time and LeBron has that advantage in every shape or form. We've seen a player like Kobe before. We've never seen a guy like LeBron. Gotta give him the benefit of a doubt that this guy is breaking the barrier on what an athlete is or can be.

It's clear they both take extreme care of their body, and until Kobe suffered his knee injury, he was going very strong. A more serious injury will likely unfortunately (and I do mean that) inevitably happen to LBJ as well. At which point we will see his decline come rapidly ala Kobe, Mailman, and all other players with amazing longevity. The "some chamber thing" you're talking about is a hyperbaric chamber. They're not that expensive and a ton of NBA players/pro athletes use them. Kobe used to as well. 'Bron was actually late to that game.

Hawkeye15
05-08-2017, 12:28 PM
It's clear they both take extreme care of their body, and until Kobe suffered his knee injury, he was going very strong. A more serious injury will likely unfortunately (and I do mean that) inevitably happen to LBJ as well. At which point we will see his decline come rapidly ala Kobe, Mailman, and all other players with amazing longevity. The "some chamber thing" you're talking about is a hyperbaric chamber. They're not that expensive and a ton of NBA players/pro athletes use them. Kobe used to as well. 'Bron was actually late to that game.

doesn't even need to be that. Getting old sucks, seriously. At some point, a knee, or hip, or ankle, or toe, something, will just give lingering pain. It's just science. And if he does indeed suffer some lower body injury, is what it is. Or hell, he might just slow way down, you don't experience elite athleticism at age 40.

It is crazy though, when you go watch LeBron play live, even at his age, he seems to have more energy than anyone, and when he does kick into gear, I know it's not like 25 year old LeBron, but he still is so fast and powerful.

tredigs
05-08-2017, 12:43 PM
doesn't even need to be that. Getting old sucks, seriously. At some point, a knee, or hip, or ankle, or toe, something, will just give lingering pain. It's just science. And if he does indeed suffer some lower body injury, is what it is. Or hell, he might just slow way down, you don't experience elite athleticism at age 40.

It is crazy though, when you go watch LeBron play live, even at his age, he seems to have more energy than anyone, and when he does kick into gear, I know it's not like 25 year old LeBron, but he still is so fast and powerful.

Hopefully nothing serious ever happens and we can just see what he's capable of as he ages. He's like a test subject as to the limits of human athletic potential over time.

valade16
05-08-2017, 01:01 PM
So it's ignorant not to choose wilt at one just because that's where you have him? Like you say I have him in my top 30 players too so I give him tons of credit. That top 30 means I would draft him that high if starting a franchise too. There have been tons of great players in history so it's really a compliment putting wilt with other top greats like we have.

I dunno why it's ignorant/water boy level to simply disagree wilt is at #1, seems like maybe you are just biased towards him or something. Like I said he'd be drafted top 30 for sure like a lot of the others greats just not at 1 for me so he gets tons of credit still.

In preparation for the all-time redraft I'm starting my 'big board' and I have Wilt 7th. He may move up to 5th but no higher.

IKnowHoops
05-08-2017, 02:44 PM
Take it easy. Almost all the top GOAT players were at or close to their peak at 32 years of age. Bird was doomed by back problems and Magic had aids, so they are out of the picture. It's easy to think LeBron will perform like a beast at 40, but if a hall of fame calibre player doesn't perform at or close to his peak at his current age then there should be concerns just my take.

Yes, but all goat players weren't all time playoff scoring leaders and in there prime at the same time. Brown is different.

IKnowHoops
05-08-2017, 02:49 PM
I remember when Kobe was at 32,000 points at 34 and was considered a lock to break the mark. We all saw how that turned out.

Never thought Kobe had a chance at breaking it. Never

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2017, 02:56 PM
So it's ignorant not to choose wilt at one just because that's where you have him? Like you say I have him in my top 30 players too so I give him tons of credit. That top 30 means I would draft him that high if starting a franchise too. There have been tons of great players in history so it's really a compliment putting wilt with other top greats like we have.

I dunno why it's ignorant/water boy level to simply disagree wilt is at #1, seems like maybe you are just biased towards him or something. Like I said he'd be drafted top 30 for sure like a lot of the others greats just not at 1 for me so he gets tons of credit still.

If we did a draft to start us a team and you were my GM and you selected any other player over Wilt(and he was available for the taking) I would have you fired, the league 99pct of the time is built inside out and taking the most dominant/athletic freak at 7'2'' with the skill/defensive impact and superman strength is something you don't pass up on when starting fresh from scratch

that would be insanely ignorant, and beyond

I threw the waterboy jab as just poking fun but no way would I keep you on board as my GM, but hey at least I would have you as my GM to start but in my book you take the most dominant player ever to start a team from scratch, that's basic common sense 101

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2017, 02:57 PM
Hopefully nothing serious ever happens and we can just see what he's capable of as he ages. He's like a test subject as to the limits of human athletic potential over time.


I saw a vid of someone claiming he was literally a cyborg, along with Leonard

so your test subject remark might be dead on correct

FlashBolt
05-08-2017, 03:00 PM
sorry if I came off harsh, but yeah man, Kobe took care of his body like no athlete I have seen. Remember, he went to Germany for knee transfusion, he has been looked at by many players as the pinnacle of how to take care of your body during a career. He was much older than LeBron when it comes to how they trained. Kobe didn't have the compression chambers, and many things athletes are starting to do now during his run. He did it all through nutrition, exercise, treatment, etc.

Of course LeBron has a genetic advantage. He has it over 99.9% of the population.

I just think you picked an odd debate, seeing as Kobe is considered by many as the example of how to take care of yourself. He never missed time. Like ever, even with a lingering elbow injury for years. His finger was mutilated, he never missed time. LeBron's genetics take a dump on anyone's, I don't even know if he feels pain (though he sure acts like it).

Definitely. Kobe probably cared more about being ready than Jordan did. I just have a gut feeling that LeBron will end up like Karl Malone and retire because he wants to rather than his body telling him to do so. Even with Kobe, it's not like he wanted to quit but his body just gave up. He was just too inefficient and it was clearly time. Probably one of the worst performing players at the end of the season.

FlashBolt
05-08-2017, 03:02 PM
It's clear they both take extreme care of their body, and until Kobe suffered his knee injury, he was going very strong. A more serious injury will likely unfortunately (and I do mean that) inevitably happen to LBJ as well. At which point we will see his decline come rapidly ala Kobe, Mailman, and all other players with amazing longevity. The "some chamber thing" you're talking about is a hyperbaric chamber. They're not that expensive and a ton of NBA players/pro athletes use them. Kobe used to as well. 'Bron was actually late to that game.

Thanks for clearing that up. Floyd does it too apparently. Karl Malone is a different case, though. He never really was bothered by a true injury other than very late in his career and even then, he could have still played. Just that the Kobe issue became a real mess and bad for his image so he just gave up.

ManRam
05-08-2017, 03:05 PM
Yeah, it will be interesting to watch him age. Not too long ago the consensus was that his game would age poorly. That's probably mostly because people have always underestimated his skill merely because he also happened to be perhaps the most freakish athlete we've ever seen step foot onto the court. But he's immensely skilled and absurdly smart (something rational people haven't ever underrated). He hasn't really shown many, if any, signs of slowing down physically but he will soon. And I'm sure he'll find ways to adapt...and probably can adapt in multiple ways (like, in general: playing more "big" or taking on even more of a facilitating role).

This is not quite the best we've seen from him in the playoffs, but it's right up there. It's pretty damn remarkable.

tredigs
05-08-2017, 03:22 PM
Yes, but all goat players weren't all time playoff scoring leaders and in there prime at the same time. Brown is different.

I mean MJ's 2nd 3 peat/MVP's were all 32 and older. Obviously lower career totals at that point as he went to college and had already retired once to **** around on a baseball field, but he was still the best in the game for years.

mngopher35
05-08-2017, 03:32 PM
If we did a draft to start us a team and you were my GM and you selected any other player over Wilt(and he was available for the taking) I would have you fired, the league 99pct of the time is built inside out and taking the most dominant/athletic freak at 7'2'' with the skill/defensive impact and superman strength is something you don't pass up on when starting fresh from scratch

that would be insanely ignorant, and beyond

I threw the waterboy jab as just poking fun but no way would I keep you on board as my GM, but hey at least I would have you as my GM to start but in my book you take the most dominant player ever to start a team from scratch, that's basic common sense 101

Lol I was just messing around with you because of your top 20 or whatever it was Lebron comment that you kept arguing about the backlash from a previous thread. It's not a big deal I was just doing something similar to see how you took that type of post and it seems you don't like people disagreeing with your rankings either, even if they admit the player was amazing. I wasn't even allowed to say he wasn't #1 lol.

I truly do not think I would have/pick Wilt #1 though and there have been a lot of great dominant bigs that we can choose from (Shaq, Kareem etc). There are also elite wing options like MJ (more scoring) or Lebron (more playmaking). I would comfortably say he is in my top 5 though on a serious level, we can at least agree he is way up there even if I don't have him 1st.

mngopher35
05-08-2017, 03:37 PM
In preparation for the all-time redraft I'm starting my 'big board' and I have Wilt 7th. He may move up to 5th but no higher.

I can think of the top 3 pretty easily, I am wondering who the 4th is that's for sure above him though (maybe I recently had him in the auction game, via trade with you? That's my guess).

Is your big board based on your own rankings or who you think would win/get votes on PSD?

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2017, 10:37 PM
Lol I was just messing around with you because of your top 20 or whatever it was Lebron comment that you kept arguing about the backlash from a previous thread. It's not a big deal I was just doing something similar to see how you took that type of post and it seems you don't like people disagreeing with your rankings either, even if they admit the player was amazing. I wasn't even allowed to say he wasn't #1 lol.

I truly do not think I would have/pick Wilt #1 though and there have been a lot of great dominant bigs that we can choose from (Shaq, Kareem etc). There are also elite wing options like MJ (more scoring) or Lebron (more playmaking). I would comfortably say he is in my top 5 though on a serious level, we can at least agree he is way up there even if I don't have him 1st.

I was guessing you had to be doing that based on my other comments but I wasn't for sure and got a good laugh out of it as well, its not a big deal at all, it makes me none rather you agree with me or not just like if I was your GM and I took Wilt over Jabbar/Shaq you probably would fire me as well, you had Wilt in your 30 best ever so I took it as at least he is in your 30, that's better than having him in your top 1000 or 6 billion

two dominant bigs over Wilt is not a lot to choose from but I get your point of thinking,if you took MJ/Lebron over Wilt I wouldn't be mad at you either, that turns out to be 4 players total you mentioned so that's not a lot at all in my book, for sure he is way way up there, Wilt was literally a Giant playing bball with finesse game like a PF/SF, not the older Lakers version but the one first drafted/Kansas version, total monster(Bill Russell's words), best and strongest athlete ever pretty much across all professional sports

mngopher35
05-09-2017, 12:32 AM
Oh ya wilt is near the top for me, I was definitely messing around. In fact I wouldn't say you are wrong because I didn't get to watch his career and there is limited video for me. He was dominant in his time like others today etc.

europagnpilgrim
05-09-2017, 01:12 AM
Oh ya wilt is near the top for me, I was definitely messing around. In fact I wouldn't say you are wrong because I didn't get to watch his career and there is limited video for me. He was dominant in his time like others today etc.

all good, I didn't get to watch him either but with the film they do have its plenty to digest and see what he was, and the film they have hidden in the archives is even more lethal especially if they ever leak his 62' season footage/games, it would be something to watch for sure

I respect all the dominant types of all eras from all sports, we are all biased towards our generation to a certain degree but I always judge it with a open mind regardless when it all comes down to who really is the best/ most dominant players

IKnowHoops
05-09-2017, 01:35 PM
Hopefully nothing serious ever happens and we can just see what he's capable of as he ages. He's like a test subject as to the limits of human athletic potential over time.

True, what ever his limit is, will be the limit of humankind.

IKnowHoops
05-09-2017, 01:48 PM
I mean MJ's 2nd 3 peat/MVP's were all 32 and older. Obviously lower career totals at that point as he went to college and had already retired once to **** around on a baseball field, but he was still the best in the game for years.

Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. Jordan was dominant at 32. But if he were as dominant, he would have those statistics, because dominance not only equals wins at the top (rings) but it equals wins at the bottom. Lebron was to good to be a low seed. His teams weren't good, but his affect on the game was at a level never before seen IMO. So he didn't get credit while he wasn't winning rings, but the credit comes around in a different form. All those years he wasn't winning, even though he was the greatest player on the planet, he was competing at a super high level, which is going to get him plenty of wins, and plenty of stats. He got these stats because of how good he was. And that level of domination, allowed him to always go deep into the playoffs, and always put up huge games. He was able to single handedly get to a championship with a team that had no biz being there. Jordan, early on, wasn't able to will his teams to high seeds or past first rounds due to low seeding and having to face the top team right away.

So I'm not playing this game about how Jordan was real good at 32 too but he could of had those stats. Yeah if Lebron would of been gifted Shaq as a Rookie or Phil and an amazing front office right from jump, he may have 10 rings already. Lets just talk about what is. Jordan has things on Lebron, Lebron has things on Jordan, but if you really look at it, the things Jordan has on Lebron are largely due to circumstance. The things Lebron has on Mike are due to physical ability. Now Jordan does have things on Lebron that are also due to his high level of skill too. 10 Scoring titles or whatever, thats all Mike. He is the GOAT for a reason. But Bron and him are on the same level at this point. Bron is a one man recking crew as much as Mike ever was.

aman_13
05-09-2017, 02:02 PM
Lebron can add on but it doesn't boost or make him go down spots like current people on here speak of and anywhere else, like he is adding on right now by sweeping teams but its not really a big deal, just like him putting up his numbers as well, its adding on but his legacy is pretty much etched in stone for what he is and hasa been, even he said he has nothing to prove so that sounds like a legacy pretty much set

it were many people who thought he had the tools but it was very few who said he is one of the best ever after his rookie year in the nba, big difference there

if you need him to defeat one of the greatest teams ever to solidify or add to his legacy triple good for you

I don't know where to begin with this statement. I'll save myself from a pointless discussion.

I mean what do you all think? LeBron is one of the best ever after his rookie yr?

FlashBolt
05-09-2017, 04:35 PM
I don't know where to begin with this statement. I'll save myself from a pointless discussion.

I mean what do you all think? LeBron is one of the best ever after his rookie yr?

LeBron put up a similar season statistically to Tyreke Evans. I wondered if he considered Tyreke an all-time GOAT after that rookie season. The dude should be out there seeking future talent rather than telling us how amazing he is at evaluating players...

aman_13
05-09-2017, 06:04 PM
LeBron put up a similar season statistically to Tyreke Evans. I wondered if he considered Tyreke an all-time GOAT after that rookie season. The dude should be out there seeking future talent rather than telling us how amazing he is at evaluating players...

Yeah I undertand believing he has the tools but to say he is one of the greatest ever after one yr is absurd.

KingPosey
05-09-2017, 06:24 PM
Definitely. Kobe probably cared more about being ready than Jordan did. I just have a gut feeling that LeBron will end up like Karl Malone and retire because he wants to rather than his body telling him to do so. Even with Kobe, it's not like he wanted to quit but his body just gave up. He was just too inefficient and it was clearly time. Probably one of the worst performing players at the end of the season.
I guess, but karl malones knee exploded and then he never played again.

FlashBolt
05-09-2017, 08:02 PM
I guess, but karl malones knee exploded and then he never played again.

At that point, Karl was like 39 or 40 so by the time LeBron gets there, he breaks KAJ's record already.

tredigs
05-09-2017, 08:14 PM
Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. Jordan was dominant at 32. But if he were as dominant, he would have those statistics, because dominance not only equals wins at the top (rings) but it equals wins at the bottom. Lebron was to good to be a low seed. His teams weren't good, but his affect on the game was at a level never before seen IMO. So he didn't get credit while he wasn't winning rings, but the credit comes around in a different form. All those years he wasn't winning, even though he was the greatest player on the planet, he was competing at a super high level, which is going to get him plenty of wins, and plenty of stats. He got these stats because of how good he was. And that level of domination, allowed him to always go deep into the playoffs, and always put up huge games. He was able to single handedly get to a championship with a team that had no biz being there. Jordan, early on, wasn't able to will his teams to high seeds or past first rounds due to low seeding and having to face the top team right away.

So I'm not playing this game about how Jordan was real good at 32 too but he could of had those stats. Yeah if Lebron would of been gifted Shaq as a Rookie or Phil and an amazing front office right from jump, he may have 10 rings already. Lets just talk about what is. Jordan has things on Lebron, Lebron has things on Jordan, but if you really look at it, the things Jordan has on Lebron are largely due to circumstance. The things Lebron has on Mike are due to physical ability. Now Jordan does have things on Lebron that are also due to his high level of skill too. 10 Scoring titles or whatever, thats all Mike. He is the GOAT for a reason. But Bron and him are on the same level at this point. Bron is a one man recking crew as much as Mike ever was.
Lmao you're going a little nuts here, acting like 'Bron was better than MJ when they were young. Definitely not the case, Mike was an MVP candidate right out of the gate. He missed a season with his freak foot injury (only missed 3 games in the 7 surrounding seasons and didn't miss a game in the 2nd 3 peat). Got the recently last place Bulls to the playoffs in his 2nd season but unfortunately ran into one of the greatest two-way teams in history (mid/late 80's Celtics). He averaged an efficient 36/7/6 +2 steals and 2 blocks on them though. But again, he played far, far fewer games by age 32 as he went to college, got injured for a year and then retired for 2 years. LBJ is going to have him on longevity (many do), nobody is denying that.

FlashBolt
05-09-2017, 08:25 PM
Lmao you're going a little nuts here, acting like 'Bron was better than MJ when they were young. Definitely not the case, Mike was an MVP candidate right out of the gate. He missed a season with his freak foot injury (only missed 3 games in the 7 surrounding seasons and didn't miss a game in the 2nd 3 peat). Got the recently last place Bulls to the playoffs in his 2nd season but unfortunately ran into one of the greatest two-way teams in history (mid/late 80's Celtics). He averaged an efficient 36/7/6 +2 steals and 2 blocks on them though. But again, he played far, far fewer games by age 32 as he went to college, got injured for a year and then retired for 2 years. LBJ is going to have him on longevity (many do), nobody is denying that.

LeBron at 21 would have been an MVP candidate, too. Different variables are involved but going to college does help refine your game. I think Jordan pretty much said Dean Smith was the best coach he had because he taught him how to play. I'd take young Jordan but the right out of the gate is a bit misleading. I don't think we'll ever see an 18 year old dominate that way out of the gate. Even at age 21, it's amazing.

europagnpilgrim
05-09-2017, 08:34 PM
I don't know where to begin with this statement. I'll save myself from a pointless discussion.

I mean what do you all think? LeBron is one of the best ever after his rookie yr?

of course its a pointless discussion because he was one of the best ever to me after his rookie year, certain people have that eye for it while others have to wait for a decade plus to speak on certain players

its not a what do you all think because few saw it, its what you all think now 14 yrs later, same ish diff toilet

europagnpilgrim
05-09-2017, 08:40 PM
LeBron put up a similar season statistically to Tyreke Evans. I wondered if he considered Tyreke an all-time GOAT after that rookie season. The dude should be out there seeking future talent rather than telling us how amazing he is at evaluating players...

and Tyreke didn't move me at all while Lebron did, Tyreke never had me wowed or like he is a true franchise dominant player but Lebron did easily and that's a big major difference when I evaluate players, Leonard avg the same ppg his rookie year as Kobe and I wonder will he crack the top 10 like some or most have Kobe ranked, I doubt it but I am just showing you because someone average same ppg doesn't mean they are of equal, if that's the case then Iverson would be easily ranked top 10 all time because he is 5th-7th all time PPG in league history

quick cherry picking off others and man up and reply to me, stop doing sissy ****, its only a sports forum even though you have gotten stumped over and over

telling you what a player is must be amazing to you if I saw it 13yrs ago(means nothing to me, its abc 123), appreciate the compliment, keep'em coming

fck

aman_13
05-09-2017, 09:01 PM
of course its a pointless discussion because he was one of the best ever to me after his rookie year, certain people have that eye for it while others have to wait for a decade plus to speak on certain players

its not a what do you all think because few saw it, its what you all think now 14 yrs later, same ish diff toilet

You said he's one of the best ever after his rookie yr. So you saw what he did and did not need him to play another game to reach that conclusion, is that what you are saying?

europagnpilgrim
05-09-2017, 10:58 PM
You said he's one of the best ever after his rookie yr. So you saw what he did and did not need him to play another game to reach that conclusion, is that what you are saying?

When I saw him on espn in HS I said this actually, of course he could have been like Oden/Bowie/Ming/G Hill and had early career ending injuries, what I didn't need was him to win rings to place him in that exclusive group like most fake experts on here and abroad needed him to do, by year 2007 Lebron proved me correct on my prediction

that is what I am saying, and I am sure you will have another question on deck like you usually do, next

europagnpilgrim
05-09-2017, 11:00 PM
Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. Jordan was dominant at 32. But if he were as dominant, he would have those statistics, because dominance not only equals wins at the top (rings) but it equals wins at the bottom. Lebron was to good to be a low seed. His teams weren't good, but his affect on the game was at a level never before seen IMO. So he didn't get credit while he wasn't winning rings, but the credit comes around in a different form. All those years he wasn't winning, even though he was the greatest player on the planet, he was competing at a super high level, which is going to get him plenty of wins, and plenty of stats. He got these stats because of how good he was. And that level of domination, allowed him to always go deep into the playoffs, and always put up huge games. He was able to single handedly get to a championship with a team that had no biz being there. Jordan, early on, wasn't able to will his teams to high seeds or past first rounds due to low seeding and having to face the top team right away.

So I'm not playing this game about how Jordan was real good at 32 too but he could of had those stats. Yeah if Lebron would of been gifted Shaq as a Rookie or Phil and an amazing front office right from jump, he may have 10 rings already. Lets just talk about what is. Jordan has things on Lebron, Lebron has things on Jordan, but if you really look at it, the things Jordan has on Lebron are largely due to circumstance. The things Lebron has on Mike are due to physical ability. Now Jordan does have things on Lebron that are also due to his high level of skill too. 10 Scoring titles or whatever, thats all Mike. He is the GOAT for a reason. But Bron and him are on the same level at this point. Bron is a one man recking crew as much as Mike ever was.

but numbers can be manipulated, it happens all the time for artist record sales, like for instance if a artist sells 3 million records, the company might buy 500k to push it to 3million when it actually was purchased by 2.5 fans of that music, I watched a game this year where Westbrook didn't grab a rebound and got credited for 2-3, so to me those numbers lie like men/women

lol, please
05-10-2017, 01:02 AM
From what I know and seen, LeBron spends $2 million just to rehab his body. He goes into some chamber thing for hours every game or so just to preserve his body. I'm not doubting Kobe never took care of his body but I don't think it's of the same magnitude LeBron is doing it at. Hard working and smart doesn't cut it. Genetics play a large role in delaying father time and LeBron has that advantage in every shape or form. We've seen a player like Kobe before. We've never seen a guy like LeBron. Gotta give him the benefit of a doubt that this guy is breaking the barrier on what an athlete is or can be.

So much ignorance here.

First of all, hard work and smart can get you really far, further than if you relied solely on genetics.

Your point of what Lebron does after games is moot since such a chamber most likely wasn't around, or as effective during most of Kobe's career, and you know better.

How many Kobe's have we seen? I've only seen one. Even if Lebron was unique, so was shaq. Lebron wouldn't even be unique at being unique.

Hope off of the man's nuts, really. People try and call me a homer, but when have I ever spurted out craziness like this? My goodness.

More-Than-Most
05-10-2017, 01:39 AM
So much ignorance here.

First of all, hard work and smart can get you really far, further than if you relied solely on genetics.

Your point of what Lebron does after games is moot since such a chamber most likely wasn't around, or as effective during most of Kobe's career, and you know better.

How many Kobe's have we seen? I've only seen one. Even if Lebron was unique, so was shaq. Lebron wouldn't even be unique at being unique.

Hope off of the man's nuts, really. People try and call me a homer, but when have I ever spurted out craziness like this? My goodness.

you cant call someone out on ignorance and be completely ignorant yourself... do you want to see the 900 articles and sports science stuff about how insane lebron is and how he is a better athlete than Jordan etc etc etc?

Here is a recent one

https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/cavaliers/non-fungibles-lebron-james-physical-attributes-intelligence/

Just ignore all these facts and be ignorant while calling others ignorant.


The chambers and other medicine/science was 100 percent available in Kobes prime.



Lebron spends 1.5 million on his body per year ... no other athlete comes close

http://cavsnation.com/lebron-spends-absurd-amount-body/

Its not hard to look this **** up.

Saddletramp
05-10-2017, 02:42 AM
you cant call someone out on ignorance and be completely ignorant yourself... do you want to see the 900 articles and sports science stuff about how insane lebron is and how he is a better athlete than Jordan etc etc etc?

Here is a recent one

https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/cavaliers/non-fungibles-lebron-james-physical-attributes-intelligence/

Just ignore all these facts and be ignorant while calling others ignorant.


The chambers and other medicine/science was 100 percent available in Kobes prime.



Lebron spends 1.5 million on his body per year ... no other athlete comes close

http://cavsnation.com/lebron-spends-absurd-amount-body/

Its not hard to look this **** up.

Well said. Good post.

valade16
05-10-2017, 03:19 AM
I can think of the top 3 pretty easily, I am wondering who the 4th is that's for sure above him though (maybe I recently had him in the auction game, via trade with you? That's my guess).

Is your big board based on your own rankings or who you think would win/get votes on PSD?

It's mostly my personal rankings but I take into account PSD's biases and that influences who I have where to some degree.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2017, 09:26 AM
you cant call someone out on ignorance and be completely ignorant yourself... do you want to see the 900 articles and sports science stuff about how insane lebron is and how he is a better athlete than Jordan etc etc etc?

Here is a recent one

https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/cavaliers/non-fungibles-lebron-james-physical-attributes-intelligence/

Just ignore all these facts and be ignorant while calling others ignorant.


The chambers and other medicine/science was 100 percent available in Kobes prime.



Lebron spends 1.5 million on his body per year ... no other athlete comes close

http://cavsnation.com/lebron-spends-absurd-amount-body/

Its not hard to look this **** up.

haterz gonna hate dude

One Nut Kruk
05-10-2017, 09:42 AM
you cant call someone out on ignorance and be completely ignorant yourself...

Apparently he can. Does it a lot.