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More-Than-Most
04-27-2017, 03:17 AM
If they go bankrupt how bad would this be for the NBA? Something like the cap dropping by 25 percent or so? There is a ton of rumblings how ESPN is going under within a few years because people just dont give a **** about cable anymore and they are paying the NBA a premium for nothing.... Does anyone have thoughts on this? People **** on ESPN but if they go under it really hurts the nba badly... The cap would buckle and teams would be ****ed

JAZZNC
04-27-2017, 04:00 AM
If they go bankrupt how bad would this be for the NBA? Something like the cap dropping by 25 percent or so? There is a ton of rumblings how ESPN is going under within a few years because people just dont give a **** about cable anymore and they are paying the NBA a premium for nothing.... Does anyone have thoughts on this? People **** on ESPN but if they go under it really hurts the nba badly... The cap would buckle and teams would be ****ed

If they would quit trying to be TMZ and go back to having knowledgeable people discuss the games and report on sports....I dunno, it's certainly gone down hill and doesn't seem to relate to intelligent fans any longer.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-27-2017, 04:45 AM
Doubt they go under. Too much to lose from both sides. There's always going to a market for sports and ESPN is essentially the central source for sporting news and such. What it boils down to is ESPN needing to get with the times if cable is becoming less of a commodity and finding other ways to get their product out there.

More-Than-Most
04-27-2017, 05:00 AM
but the thing is their TV deals are just so far out there its sad... Like their tv deals are really really bad.

Lil Rhody
04-27-2017, 05:04 AM
I turned on SC last night for the first time in about three years and wtf did they do to sports center?



Guys it's going to be ok for them because it's only a matter of time before the patriots do something illegal and espn will have 24/7 coverage on it and people will tune in lmao I joke I joke

More-Than-Most
04-27-2017, 05:38 AM
http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/04/impending_espn_layoffs_could_reach_100_employees_r .html

first guys going and some insane names

Trent Dilfer, Jayson Stark, Jay Crawford, Ed Werder

More-Than-Most
04-27-2017, 05:40 AM
Dan Le Batard's FATHER yet still has a Job lol

JAZZNC
04-27-2017, 05:56 AM
Jay Crawford and Dilfer really sucks. The fact that Lebatard still has a job much less his dad is perplexing.... like I said earlier, people who do their job well aren't at a premium it seems, controversial loudmouths however....

SportsFanatic10
04-27-2017, 06:16 AM
Honestly I don't care at all. As someone who streams all my sports for free lol. I'm not rich enough to be paying out the *** just so these athletes can make insane amounts. The cap should go down, no one really deserves to make that much money honestly. It's way out of control, in all sports and movies, music artists etc...I know "market value" whatever, this crap needs to change across all entertainment platforms. I mean they should be rich, but THIS rich! Come on, there's just not enough money to go around where these people deserve to be hoarding it all.

Quinnsanity
04-27-2017, 07:29 AM
Ok first of all, ESPN is not going under, but let's say they did.

It wouldn't affect the NBA at all, at least not from a direct media revenue standpoint. Their contract with ESPN lasts for another eight years, and ESPN's parent company is Disney. If ESPN actually did go bankrupt, the Disney corporation would have to honor the rights deal and would likely just move any games that would've been on ESPN to ABC (or create a streaming network online for them, or sell the rights to another party, there are a bunch of possibilities). The point is, the NBA will get every penny they agreed to from the previous rights deal. There might be some slight auxiliary issues, like the loss of ESPN making it harder to access highlights and therefore create new fans, but those are minimal issues in the short term.

The longer term problem is what happens after this media rights deal expires. The media landscape in general is going to look very different in eight years. We have no idea how valuable the NBA will be as a media property at that point. If we did live in a world without ESPN, which we won't, but if we did, there's a good chance the cap would go down after that because the biggest bidder for NBA rights would be gone. The other networks (Fox, CBS, and NBC) are all losing money as is and already have to fork over huge rights fees for the more profitable NFL. None of them seem too eager to jump in for NBA rights. So in general, there's a decent chance the cap falls after the current rights deal expires.

The cost of those rights deals is the noose around ESPN's neck at the moment. The guys they fired yesterday were drops in the bucket. Deadspin said it best, and I'm paraphrasing "the salaries of everyone fired are probably equal to around 10-15 minutes of one Monday Night Football broadcast in terms of cost." This was a move to satisfy investors who were worried that ESPN is spending too freely. And a lot of good people lost their jobs because of it. It's a shame that ESPN would so publicly sacrifice people like this when it really doesn't fix the problem, but hey, it'll buy them some time with investors.

As NBA fans we should be a little annoyed that we lost some very good writers. Justin Verrier, Calvin Watkins, but mainly Ethan Sherwood Strauss. I imagine those guys land on their feet, but it's not a good sign for us as NBA content consumers that the places that produce the content in question aren't making enough money to keep producing it.

warfelg
04-27-2017, 08:20 AM
ESPN was so far from being bankrupt.

A lot of what happened yesterday was unloading of overpaid (Crawford), underused (team reporters), and underworked employees.

LongIslandIcedZ
04-27-2017, 08:33 AM
I'm sure we'll see some of them follow Colin and Skip to FS1

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

JasonJohnHorn
04-27-2017, 09:06 AM
People are still watching games. If they don't watch them on cable, they'll stream them or watch them on network TV.

The NBA already has a streaming service; if they market it right, or sign a deal with somebody like NetFlix, they can certainly amp it up.

If Netflix offer to include an NBA package for an additional $4 a month, I'd say yes in a heartbeat. I'm currently paying nothing to watch NBA games.

And even though Netflix doesn't have commercials, the NBA could still play them during a live-stream.

warfelg
04-27-2017, 09:19 AM
People are still watching games. If they don't watch them on cable, they'll stream them or watch them on network TV.

The NBA already has a streaming service; if they market it right, or sign a deal with somebody like NetFlix, they can certainly amp it up.

If Netflix offer to include an NBA package for an additional $4 a month, I'd say yes in a heartbeat. I'm currently paying nothing to watch NBA games.

And even though Netflix doesn't have commercials, the NBA could still play them during a live-stream.

They could do what league pass does and just either show the local feed in its whole or blank out the commercials.

I still think that LP should have a hub that shows highlights and updated scores so during commercial breaks of your game they catch you up on other action.

Scoots
04-27-2017, 10:29 AM
I had a thread going about this a while back, but it apparently aged out.

Quinnsanity, I wouldn't assume the NBA gets all of their money if ESPN declares bankruptcy. In fact there are almost certainly provisions that they can not expect to get all of their money. ESPN is it's own corporation which means Disney will not be held fully accountable for it's actions.

This has been coming for a while and as soon as they signed that deal I said it wasn't sustainable. It's like the Dodgers TV deal in LA. The cable/satellite companies have been seeing their market shrink and live sports was seen as the key to them continuing to make big money. ESPN subscriptions are down 30% and dropping fast. The prime customer group is aging and a lot of the next generation are perfectly happy to watch a 10 minute cut-up of a game for free. I don't see that there is any way the NBA comes close to replacing these deals when they expire for anything close to comparable money. But that's okay ... when there is less money there is less money that doesn't mean the game is going to go away. But game tickets are going to more than double in price in the next 10 years.

Scoots
04-27-2017, 10:31 AM
People are still watching games. If they don't watch them on cable, they'll stream them or watch them on network TV.

The NBA already has a streaming service; if they market it right, or sign a deal with somebody like NetFlix, they can certainly amp it up.

If Netflix offer to include an NBA package for an additional $4 a month, I'd say yes in a heartbeat. I'm currently paying nothing to watch NBA games.

And even though Netflix doesn't have commercials, the NBA could still play them during a live-stream.

at $4 a month they won't come anywhere near making what they are making now. Not ANYWHERE close.

nycericanguy
04-27-2017, 11:04 AM
Players in the NBA are definitely taking things for granted. All the resting, sitting out of games, not playing defense in ASG or even trying. Teaming up to try to get easy titles, not participating in all star activities like dunk contest...etc...

Then the gameplay has turned into soft, 3pt chucking... these guys are definitely watering the game down and once these huge TV deals expire I think the next generation of players will pay the costs. This generation is not paying it forward.

YAALREADYKNO
04-27-2017, 11:55 AM
Fox
Sports
1

Quinnsanity
04-27-2017, 03:58 PM
People are still watching games. If they don't watch them on cable, they'll stream them or watch them on network TV.

The NBA already has a streaming service; if they market it right, or sign a deal with somebody like NetFlix, they can certainly amp it up.

If Netflix offer to include an NBA package for an additional $4 a month, I'd say yes in a heartbeat. I'm currently paying nothing to watch NBA games.

And even though Netflix doesn't have commercials, the NBA could still play them during a live-stream.

League Pass online BLOWS when it comes to watching live games. I don't think I've ever watched a game live on League Pass without SOME technical issue or another, and I'm on LP virtually every night during the regular season. It's great that you can go back and watch games after the fact, usually with no issue, but before the league can really sell a streaming service en masse, potentially replacing the current cable model, it has to be nearly bug free, and it seems like we're years away from this.


I had a thread going about this a while back, but it apparently aged out.

Quinnsanity, I wouldn't assume the NBA gets all of their money if ESPN declares bankruptcy. In fact there are almost certainly provisions that they can not expect to get all of their money. ESPN is it's own corporation which means Disney will not be held fully accountable for it's actions.

This has been coming for a while and as soon as they signed that deal I said it wasn't sustainable. It's like the Dodgers TV deal in LA. The cable/satellite companies have been seeing their market shrink and live sports was seen as the key to them continuing to make big money. ESPN subscriptions are down 30% and dropping fast. The prime customer group is aging and a lot of the next generation are perfectly happy to watch a 10 minute cut-up of a game for free. I don't see that there is any way the NBA comes close to replacing these deals when they expire for anything close to comparable money. But that's okay ... when there is less money there is less money that doesn't mean the game is going to go away. But game tickets are going to more than double in price in the next 10 years.

This is an important point and should be expanded on. If the new national TV deal is smaller than the current one eight years from now, the league is going to try to make up that money somewhere. Some of that is predictable. Tickets will be more expensive. Jerseys will be expensive. Anything they can slap an NBA logo on will be more expensive.

But there are other implications that are going to be harder to predict. We know that the NBA is the fastest growing international sports product right now. If the NBA were to expand, might they be more inclined to choose an international market (Mexico City being the most likely) to try to juice more revenue out of the rest of the world? Or could the NBA, say, expand the playoffs by adding a 9th and 10th seed and making them play the 7th and 8th seeds in like a best-of-three series before the real playoffs kick in? The point is, there are going to be real, league-changing consequences to a smaller media deal that go beyond us having to pay more for stuff. The actual product is probably going to be different, and I'm not quite sure how different it'll be.

Scoots
04-27-2017, 04:12 PM
League Pass online BLOWS when it comes to watching live games. I don't think I've ever watched a game live on League Pass without SOME technical issue or another, and I'm on LP virtually every night during the regular season. It's great that you can go back and watch games after the fact, usually with no issue, but before the league can really sell a streaming service en masse, potentially replacing the current cable model, it has to be nearly bug free, and it seems like we're years away from this.



This is an important point and should be expanded on. If the new national TV deal is smaller than the current one eight years from now, the league is going to try to make up that money somewhere. Some of that is predictable. Tickets will be more expensive. Jerseys will be expensive. Anything they can slap an NBA logo on will be more expensive.

But there are other implications that are going to be harder to predict. We know that the NBA is the fastest growing international sports product right now. If the NBA were to expand, might they be more inclined to choose an international market (Mexico City being the most likely) to try to juice more revenue out of the rest of the world? Or could the NBA, say, expand the playoffs by adding a 9th and 10th seed and making them play the 7th and 8th seeds in like a best-of-three series before the real playoffs kick in? The point is, there are going to be real, league-changing consequences to a smaller media deal that go beyond us having to pay more for stuff. The actual product is probably going to be different, and I'm not quite sure how different it'll be.

The possibly biggest issue is that if the players union doesn't accept cap smoothing when it needs to go down we could get a lockout, and since agents are not dumb I wouldn't be surprised if fewer max contracts are signed in the last years of this TV deal and instead contracts with large fixed numbers not tied to revenue. Owners will live with whatever they can get out of their revenue pie, but with multi-year guaranteed contracts and repeater tax being a MAJOR issue when the cap goes down owners will not accept losing money and that could be a fact for a third of the league when this contract ends.

JasonJohnHorn
04-27-2017, 07:09 PM
at $4 a month they won't come anywhere near making what they are making now. Not ANYWHERE close.

Well... perhaps not off subscriptions, but like print, subscriptions don't cover the costs: advertisements do.

There are a couple things to consider.

1. If the NBA has their own deal with Netlfix or some streaming service, and they are showing commercials and take a cut of that, then they can make up the difference between the subscription sales and the blanket payment the cable company paid (if a streaming service like Netflix isn't willing to match such a deal: which they may if they know they are getting commercial revenue from games as well).

2. They wouldn't just be selling subscriptions to Americans. The NBA has global reach. Consider this: there are 1.6 billion people in China alone. Imagine if they manage if they sold $4 subscription fees to 4% of that country? And that is just China.

Basketball is popular in other Asian countries, and is gaining steam in Europe. Canada has a decent number of fans as well.

Up until now, the cable companies like ESPN have bought the right to air games overseas (as far as I know). Imagine is the NBA took that over.


There is lots of ways to make money for the NBA. They don't need cable. They just need to be innovative.

Scoots
04-27-2017, 11:38 PM
As a cord cutter and Netflix user ... Netflix subscribers will lose their minds if they have to watch commercials.

The NBA can't charge anywhere near as much outside the US.

The question is not if the NBA is going to be in bad shape, but can they make MORE money after this contract runs out ... and basically what has happened to ESPN is evidence that the amount the NBA is getting is over inflated, and all of the players know it now so they are not going to throw as much money around next time.

zn23
04-28-2017, 12:55 AM
ESPN has only themselves to blame... They decided that appealing the lowest common denominator, injecting politics and entertainment over appealing to sports fans. I still go on ESPN every day, mainly to look up stats and I really like their ticker, but I swear every article I want to read, that's actually interesting and is about sports.... is an Insider Article. I've never so many insider articles before. I remember like 6 years ago, having an insider membership was really for the hard core fans. Now you basically need it if you want to read anything interesting. It has turned into an entertainment show and as a result people have turned away from it.

rhino17
04-28-2017, 03:01 AM
ESPN is complete garbage, I have no reason to ever watch except for basketball. But I also am totally unwilling get a cable subscription (waste of money imo). So I have League Pass and then just watch ESPN or TNT games at a bar


As NBA fans we should be a little annoyed that we lost some very good writers. Justin Verrier, Calvin Watkins, but mainly Ethan Sherwood Strauss. I imagine those guys land on their feet, but it's not a good sign for us as NBA content consumers that the places that produce the content in question aren't making enough money to keep producing it.
Speaking for all Rockets fans....Calvin Watkins was a grade A dipshit

People are still watching games. If they don't watch them on cable, they'll stream them or watch them on network TV.

The NBA already has a streaming service; if they market it right, or sign a deal with somebody like NetFlix, they can certainly amp it up.

League Pass does NOT include local games or nationally televised. Luckily I don't live where my hometown team plays, so I can watch but that is a huge problem for local markets

tredigs
04-28-2017, 06:40 PM
They just fired Marc Stein and Henry Abbot, and they are cancelling the TrueHoop pod. Strauss already fired yesterday. I am pissed, and now no longer have any reason to watch/visit ESPN. Can't wait to see where all these juggernauts land.

Quinnsanity
04-28-2017, 09:39 PM
They just fired Marc Stein and Henry Abbot, and they are cancelling the TrueHoop pod. Strauss already fired yesterday. I am pissed, and now no longer have any reason to watch/visit ESPN. Can't wait to see where all these juggernauts land.

Wait they're canceling the TrueHoop pod? What the hell? They have so many talented people left to do it. That makes no sense. Abbott was rarely on it anyway and Stein virtually never was. I love the TrueHoop podcast, that's such a goddamn shame.