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View Full Version : How can the Thunder become a relevant team?



mrblisterdundee
04-26-2017, 06:22 PM
This is similar to the thread I started on what effect a sweep will have on Paul George and the Pacers. The Thunder absolutely stank without Westbrook on the court, and even with him, were middling at best.
What can they do become relevant again? Can they retool around Westbrook? Should they try to trade him and start rebuilding? Is there a way to give Westbrook's teammates more relevance?

THE MTL
04-26-2017, 06:37 PM
First, they need to obtain a second star. It can be from any position besides point guard. Only until they get a second guy, will you truly know what they need.

FlashBolt
04-26-2017, 06:41 PM
Get shooters and a backup PG who can create. We have good defense but the same guys playing them are as useful as a stick offensively.

MygirlhatesCod
04-26-2017, 06:48 PM
First, they need to obtain a second star. It can be from any position besides point guard. Only until they get a second guy, will you truly know what they need.

hard to find a star willing to play with westy. his approach isnt really teammate friendly.

mngopher35
04-26-2017, 06:53 PM
I think they need to upgrade around Westy/Adams. I like Abrines/Sabonis potentially and Roberson as role players as well but am not really a fan of Kanter/Dipo (would trade/dump if possible). Taj is a nice vet for sure too. You want to build a great defense, space the floor, and get another playmaker at least.

I think you definitely want 3 and D around them and if you add another playmaker (maybe not even KD level like Mccollum level or something) it could work well. Westy can create for sure but you want more spacing around him and another very good/great creator to take some pressure off. I mean they basically had it with Durant there and Ibaka at the 4. They were very close to making the finals last year with that same idea it's just you probably can't get that level secondary star again.

I have no idea their cap space but if I was them with Westys contract coming up I would try and make moves if possible this summer in Milsap (obviously a Blake or Hayward they would want too, just think this fits and isn't quite as high profile) and dumping salary. Dump Dipo/Kanters contracts if possible to create space but again maybe this is out of reach. Adds some spacing/playmaking at the 4 and adds to the defense as well. Westy/Milsap/Adams is a very nice fitting core imo. Abrines Roberson, Mcdermott, Sabonis as role players and now you gotta fill in with vet guards/wings and probably another big on the cheap.

Edit: by the end I am kinda not sure anyone would take those contracts with space, dumping them or not will probably be a big factor.

mrblisterdundee
04-26-2017, 06:54 PM
First, they need to obtain a second star. It can be from any position besides point guard. Only until they get a second guy, will you truly know what they need.

How? The Thunder have tied themselves up by paying Oladipo, Kanter and Adams more than $60 million combined next season.

WaDe03
04-26-2017, 06:55 PM
They can't but at least Westbrook is the MVP.

mngopher35
04-26-2017, 06:57 PM
How? The Thunder have tied themselves up by paying Oladipo, Kanter and Adams more than $60 million combined next season.

Ya I think Adams is fine but those other two are killers, are they all at like 20 mil then?

sep11ie
04-26-2017, 07:17 PM
Trade the black hole Westbrook while his value is high and reboot.

FlashBolt
04-26-2017, 07:35 PM
hard to find a star willing to play with westy. his approach isnt really teammate friendly.

WTF are you basing this off of? Most of his teammates have nothing but positive things to say. I think this narrative that he is a ballhog who doesn't care about his teammates is absolutely opposite of who he really is.

rhino17
04-26-2017, 07:39 PM
Trade the black hole Westbrook while his value is high and reboot.

thats ridiculous, you don't trade a top 5 nba player under ANY circumstances (OKC has already made that mistake before)

FlashBolt
04-26-2017, 07:53 PM
thats ridiculous, you don't trade a top 5 nba player under ANY circumstances (OKC has already made that mistake before)

unless they want to leave. Which is what many teams are starting to realize: if a player is dipping, trade them for pieces.

USASports
04-26-2017, 07:55 PM
Get some shooters to help Westbrook out. Not taking anything away from Westbrook, he single handedly took the Thunder to the playoffs. Get some guys to help him out.

Lil Rhody
04-26-2017, 08:09 PM
Trade Westbrook for IT2. Celtics gladly accept!

aman_13
04-26-2017, 08:11 PM
Another star to take some responsibility off Westbrook. They can't have it setup the same way again and not expect him to get hurt. He was doing too much.

They need to diversify their offense and run more than just pick and roll as well. Westbook can play that style and dominate for long stretches, but it's incredibly taxing and over time, predictable. That's why they stagnate late in games.

LOb0
04-26-2017, 08:22 PM
They're in a similar situation as the 2005-2007 Lakers. Maybe they should have went for the Boogie deal like the Lakers went for Pau. Basically give up garbage (No one really knew about Marc at the time). Its gonna be hard to get good talent over there.

tp13baby
04-26-2017, 08:34 PM
Another team will have to be foolish enough to take Oladipos or Kanters contract. I don't see it except maybe the Nets?

One Nut Kruk
04-26-2017, 08:43 PM
Another team will have to be foolish enough to take Oladipos or Kanters contract. I don't see it except maybe the Nets?

Let's hope so

Raps18-19 Champ
04-26-2017, 08:50 PM
Trade Kanter and get someone young who has some potential.

tp13baby
04-26-2017, 10:14 PM
Let's hope so

Dipo can give you a 2 way game. Kanter sucks defensively. It would clear 21 mil for a team that may have entice a better free agent.

Is it too far fetched to think there lineup could be

Adams
Sabonis
Gallo
Roberson
Westbrook

Scoots
04-26-2017, 11:36 PM
I'd like to see them in more of a motion offense. Sabonis has to have a big jump in his game next year, but I think he could be a good high post fulcrum for a motion offense. But like Flash said, they need a couple reasonable shooters who are not useless at all other parts of the game.

Players the Thunder may be able to draft who would fit:
Luke Kennard
Terrance Ferguson
Tyler Lydon
Dwayne Bacon
Donovan Mitchell

Scoots
04-26-2017, 11:38 PM
Trade Kanter and get someone young who has some potential.

Kanter is still young. It's telling that everybody is looking to move him on to his 3rd team already. That said he's going to keep making bank in the NBA even with the holes in his game.

lol, please
04-26-2017, 11:53 PM
This is similar to the thread I started on what effect a sweep will have on Paul George and the Pacers. The Thunder absolutely stank without Westbrook on the court, and even with him, were middling at best.
What can they do become relevant again? Can they retool around Westbrook? Should they try to trade him and start rebuilding? Is there a way to give Westbrook's teammates more relevance?

Perennial contenders and a team that has the current MVP isn't relevant?


There's just nothing really to say to someone that removed from reality.

kobe4thewinbang
04-27-2017, 06:43 AM
Westbrook has no problem with passing the ball to a reliable teammate. If he had a skilled center, or a solid 4-man, or some actual shooters, OKC would be a true force. You see what they could become, when his current crew are contributing. He goes into "black hole" mode when he realizes that he is their best hope of winning a game late cuz those dudes really have no game to speak of.

OKC is not really in a good place right now, though, having strangely given extensions to Steven Adams and Victor Oladipo. Adams might become better, but those were two strange moves. Sam Presti has his hands full this offseason to work some magic and get Westbrook legitimate relief, especially a backup PG that can keep the supporting players from surrendering leads ALL THE TIME.

Westbrook is on a high after a tremendous season, but it's not going to be fun very quickly next season if Presti fails to get him help and then he will likely bolt and see why Durant left. It's mindboggling how a team that kept having bad luck with losing one of its stars to injury time and time again to not surround them with more reliable help. Freaking Dion Waiters and Kevin Martin.

I'mma be that guy, but it really all goes back to trading Harden and not choosing to keep him. OKC has been called "cheap" for that, so they naturally responded by extending the hell out of two 'meh' players.

So, yeah. They got their hands full this summer. Or Westbrook gonna be gone!

:mad:

PurpleLynch
04-27-2017, 06:58 AM
Adding one star is the first step,they lost the 2nd best small forward of the Nba and didn't replace him. Maybe a trade for Paul George? Him,Westbrook and Oladipo could be a great trio on both offense and defense.

Then they have to be smart with free agents to add some muscles for the bench:Reddick,Allen,Collison,even retaking Ibaka should be considered(on top of my mind).

Quinnsanity
04-27-2017, 07:11 AM
If OKC couldn't win a title with KEVIN FREAKING DURANT on this team, I highly doubt there are any alterations to be made that gets this group into true contention. It usually is crazy to trade a player as good as Westbrook. But the Thunder are capped out with a mediocre team and no end in sight, and Westbrook relies so heavily on athleticism that you have to imagine he's going to slip in the near-ish future. I would trade him at the peak of his value. He's worth a boatload. The goal is to win a championship, and the Thunder are probably two top-10 players away from even getting into Golden State's stratosphere. They have no way to get those guys anyway. So normally I wouldn't advocate trading someone as good as Russ. But the Warriors force teams to be more realistic about their standing in the league. Try to win when they're done. Honestly there are only a few teams who should even bother trying to compete with Golden State.

Quinnsanity
04-27-2017, 07:15 AM
I'd like to see them in more of a motion offense. Sabonis has to have a big jump in his game next year, but I think he could be a good high post fulcrum for a motion offense. But like Flash said, they need a couple reasonable shooters who are not useless at all other parts of the game.

Players the Thunder may be able to draft who would fit:
Luke Kennard
Terrance Ferguson
Tyler Lydon
Dwayne Bacon
Donovan Mitchell

We've been saying this for years though, haven't we? First we thought Scott Brooks was the problem, so they fired him and he went to Washington and built a really nice offense. Then Durant goes to Golden State, and he plays in a really beautiful offense. Harden is doing the same in Washington. Yet OKC continues to devolve into iso ball. Westbrook is the one remaining variable. I don't think it's possible to play a motion offense with Russ. MAYBE a coach like Popovich could do it, but in most situations I just think you have to accept what your offense is going to be with Russ. The tradeoff is usually worth it, because he's so good, but you have to accept you're never going to look like the Spurs or Warriors.

ewing
04-27-2017, 08:03 AM
I think Westy is the MVP this year. I also think he is hard to build around. They definitely need some guys that can shoot though.

Burkey3472
04-27-2017, 08:21 AM
What do people see as relevant? Competing for a title? They would probably need to add another major star and 2-3 shooters/defenders to really have a chance and that is a major reach in itself.

Ariza's Better
04-27-2017, 08:47 AM
Find a new coach, somehow trade Kanter/oladipo for competent role players who can shoot. Honestly, trading Westbrook for every asset they can get their hands on is probably the better option but that won't happen.

JasonJohnHorn
04-27-2017, 08:57 AM
Trade the black hole Westbrook while his value is high and reboot.

Yup.

JasonJohnHorn
04-27-2017, 09:01 AM
WTF are you basing this off of? Most of his teammates have nothing but positive things to say. I think this narrative that he is a ballhog who doesn't care about his teammates is absolutely opposite of who he really is.

Does he care about his teammates? I'd say so. That's the difference between him ad Kobe.

That said... he dominates the ball and this doesn't allow other teammate to flourish in most instances. I won't judge too harshly because he's doesn't have many great teammates, but last year in the conference finals, when they were up 3-1, we saw just how much his style of play can hurt a team.

At the end of the day, as impressive as his personal stats are, they are personal stats, and not wins. It would be extremely difficult to win a title with a guy who his shooting percentage.


I think the same guys who were hesitant to go to LA because of Kobe, would be equally hesitant to play with Westy, to whom personal stats are important, even if he respects and cares for his teammates.

Just because he cares about them doesn't mean he'll make the best choices for them.


I think a trade to the Lakers is a good idea.

mightybosstone
04-27-2017, 09:03 AM
I was talking with someone about this yesterday, and I think there are essentially two paths to them getting better:
1. Add another superstar
2. Add a whole bunch of other pieces

When you look at that OKC roster last year, the fact that they had two top 5 players in the league filled a lot of holes. That, plus the Ibaka for Oladipo swap didn't really do them any favors in a few areas, mainly floor spacing and interior defense. So, they could feasibly go that same route again and just add another stud who could give them another elite level scorer and help mask some of the issues they have on their roster.

If that isn't going to happen, then I think they need help in a few areas. First and foremost, I do think they need shooters, but that's not the only issues. They HAVE shooters right now with guys like Abrines and McBuckets. They need guys who can shoot who aren't complete liabilities defensively, so essentially just 1-2 solid 3 and D caliber players. If they could get a 2-way borderline All-star caliber wing (like a poor man's Durant), that would go a long way to addressing their problems.

Secondly, I think they need a second playmaker, whether it's a point guard, combo guard or ball-handling forward. They just need someone else who can create for others when Westbrook sits down or even when he's in the game to take some pressure off him. Finally, I think they desperately need another defensive 5. When Adams left the game, it was obvious how much easier it was to score on that team inside. Kanter is a sieve, Sabonis isn't ready and Gibson (who's a free agent anyway) isn't really a 5 or a great rim protector.

sammyvine
04-27-2017, 09:31 AM
Why do people keep saying add another star.

They had Durant and he didn't like playing with Westbrook. That tells you everything you need to know

mightybosstone
04-27-2017, 09:49 AM
Why do people keep saying add another star.

They had Durant and he didn't like playing with Westbrook. That tells you everything you need to know

I think it would have to be a star who doesn't mind not having the ball in his hand the majority of the game. I'm thinking a big man like Griffin or Love or maybe a wing like George, who hasn't really gotten to play next to another star player and might appreciate not having to carry that load forever. That being said, I don't think any of those guys are very likely as OKC doesn't really have the pieces to make a trade for Love or George, and I can't really see Blake picking the Thunder in free agency. Hayward is another free agent who jumps out at me, but again, I think there are probably half a dozen better destinations for him.

Scoots
04-27-2017, 10:00 AM
Westy to the Lakers is interesting ... what do the Lakers give up to get him?

Jeffy25
04-27-2017, 10:04 AM
They can't. Westbrook is the ideal player to stick a team into limbo. I think basketball is littered with players like this. They are top 3-10 players in the game, who can score a ton of points and create a ton of offense. But they can't do it enough, often enough, and expect the ball in their hands at all times.

You can't play team ball with guys like this (Spurs style), and you can't put other stars with guys like this and expect them to excel.

Westbrook needs a prime Pau Gasol. Someone who is a star, that the league and team don't know he is a star, that does all the things that Westbrook can't/won't do, and doesn't mind pretending he is in the backseat while secretly saving the ship several nights a week.

I don't know who that player in the NBA is today. But he needs prime Pau Gasol the way Kobe did.

Otherwise, he is another player in the list of guys like Harden, Westbrook, George, Anthony, etc, who can't do it alone, but don't realize that and expect to take all the shots and glory while not being as good as LeBron or a Pop system ran team.

mightybosstone
04-27-2017, 10:46 AM
They can't. Westbrook is the ideal player to stick a team into limbo. I think basketball is littered with players like this. They are top 3-10 players in the game, who can score a ton of points and create a ton of offense. But they can't do it enough, often enough, and expect the ball in their hands at all times.

You can't play team ball with guys like this (Spurs style), and you can't put other stars with guys like this and expect them to excel.

Westbrook needs a prime Pau Gasol. Someone who is a star, that the league and team don't know he is a star, that does all the things that Westbrook can't/won't do, and doesn't mind pretending he is in the backseat while secretly saving the ship several nights a week.

I don't know who that player in the NBA is today. But he needs prime Pau Gasol the way Kobe did.

Otherwise, he is another player in the list of guys like Harden, Westbrook, George, Anthony, etc, who can't do it alone, but don't realize that and expect to take all the shots and glory while not being as good as LeBron or a Pop system ran team.

This doesn't seem fair to me. The question wasn't "How do the Thunder win a title?" It was "How do they become relevant again?" The league isn't so stacked with elite teams that the Thunder couldn't make 2-3 moves and be a top 5 squad again in a year or two. Hell, the Rockets had the third best record in the league this season 55 wins. You're telling me that if OKC couldn't pull that off with the right moves?

The only way I'd agree with you is if the question were specifically about winning a title. I don't think it's very likely that a team with Westbrook as its No. 1 will win a title barring just the absolute perfect roster surrounding him. And that's even less likely in the same conference as this stacked Warriors squad. But if you define "relevant" as a top 5 caliber team with a chance to crack the conference finals, they're absolutely capable of doing that if Presti puts the right pieces in place.

IndyRealist
04-27-2017, 10:55 AM
They need Avery Bradley, and they need to move one of Adams or Kanter. Too much money tied up in one position.

Also Roberson is a keeper, they need a completely new roster. otherwise.

mrblisterdundee
04-27-2017, 11:10 AM
Ya I think Adams is fine but those other two are killers, are they all at like 20 mil then?

Kanter will make $17.8 million next season. Oladipo will make $21 million. Adams will start next season at $22.4 million. With Westbrook, I guess the Thunder have their Big Four.:(

mrblisterdundee
04-27-2017, 11:25 AM
Does anyone really think the Thunder would turn down a godfather offer for Westbrook from, say, Boston or Philadelphia, or even the Lakers, if they get that top-three pick?
Considering all the bad contracts that team has handed out, trading Wesbrook seems like one of the only ways to bring some hope for the future and a more balanced roster. By the time all the young guys get done with their rookie contracts, Kanter will be off the books, and the Thunder might have some cap space to re-sign a star. In the interim, they'd be an exciting young team with some more lottery picks. That's how they got Durant, Harden and Westbrook in the first place.

LA4life24/8
04-27-2017, 12:01 PM
Surround him with shooters. Thats basically the only difference between thunder/rox. Harden and rw put up huge numbers but harden is surrounded by 3 pt shooters. Pretty much no one on the thunder are good 3 pt shooters

LA4life24/8
04-27-2017, 12:04 PM
Westy to the Lakers is interesting ... what do the Lakers give up to get him?

Thunder ask for AT LEAST: top 3 (if we keep) ingram russel and to make money money match theyd have to taje deng or moz back and they send us westy and some bench filler

LA4life24/8
04-27-2017, 12:05 PM
If im the pels i offer holiday+cousins for westy?

Oladipo kanter sabonis 1st for pg13/montae ellis?

Quinnsanity
04-27-2017, 03:38 PM
I think it would have to be a star who doesn't mind not having the ball in his hand the majority of the game. I'm thinking a big man like Griffin or Love or maybe a wing like George, who hasn't really gotten to play next to another star player and might appreciate not having to carry that load forever. That being said, I don't think any of those guys are very likely as OKC doesn't really have the pieces to make a trade for Love or George, and I can't really see Blake picking the Thunder in free agency. Hayward is another free agent who jumps out at me, but again, I think there are probably half a dozen better destinations for him.

Remember, they had Kevin Durant and they couldn't win the title (though yes, they were obviously relevant). You don't just need a star who doesn't mind not having the ball in his hands. To get them back within reasonable contention, you also need one who's pretty much as good as Durant, if not better. The only player in the league who I think fits both descriptions is Kawhi Leonard, and well, the Spurs aren't trading Kawhi Leonard.

Of course, this all depends on your definition of relevant. I think relevant has to mean "realistic chance to win the championship." That's where they were with Durant, and they would need a Durant-caliber player to get back there.

Saddletramp
04-27-2017, 05:23 PM
Ain't no way the Thunder trade Westbrook this early unless he gives them their blessing. If I remember correctly, he re-upped early to show his loyalty after Durant left. He might say something like it's time to move on and a move to the Lakers makes sense for both him and the Thunder with what they'd get in return.

Maybe he gets traded down the line but I'd be shocked if they deal him now. Whatever reason FAs would choose them going forward would really take a hit if that were to happen and Russ wasn't on board with the move.

Adams is a great player but for $20+ million a year? I dunno. Like others have said, it'll be hard to move Olidipo and Kanter, but Adams might net you something.

valade16
04-27-2017, 05:38 PM
How can the Thunder become relevant?

Let Westbrook walk and tear the team down. Draft 4 All-NBA/All-Defense caliber players and don't trade them.

nycericanguy
04-27-2017, 06:08 PM
trade for Love.

NY gets - Oladipo, Sabonis

CLE gets - Melo

OKC gets Love, Courtney Lee

CLE would be the holdup on if they want to move Love for Melo, but Love really disappears a lot, I think Melo would flourish as a 2nd/3rd option next to Melo

valade16
04-27-2017, 06:14 PM
trade for Love.

NY gets - Oladipo, Sabonis

CLE gets - Melo

OKC gets Love, Courtney Lee

CLE would be the holdup on if they want to move Love for Melo, but Love really disappears a lot, I think Melo would flourish as a 2nd/3rd option next to Melo

Isn't that kind of what he's doing now?

mrblisterdundee
04-27-2017, 06:57 PM
trade for Love.

NY gets - Oladipo, Sabonis

CLE gets - Melo

OKC gets Love, Courtney Lee

CLE would be the holdup on if they want to move Love for Melo, but Love really disappears a lot, I think Melo would flourish as a 2nd/3rd option next to Melo

Hmm; you mean Cleveland might not want to give up Love just to get Anthony? Weird.:confused:

nycericanguy
04-27-2017, 08:25 PM
Hmm; you mean Cleveland might not want to give up Love just to get Anthony? Weird.:confused:

if CLE doesn't win the title I think it's a possibility. Love just disappears alot... he had a good run early in the year but then got hurt again and really has shot very poorly since. he's averaged just 14ppg on 39% in the playoffs in 3 years in CLE and is right around that again this year despite playing with LBJ and Irving.

I think Melo could do much better there.

kobe4thewinbang
04-28-2017, 12:02 AM
Worst case scenario: The team gets worse next season and onward, despite having Westbrook, and the owner sells the team, which goes back to Seattle and a better owner less worried about business and more about winning.

Best case scenario: Sam Presti goes to work after even this owner is able to justify the business side of not being in the running for a title. Think about it...OKC was in the Finals. They're on TV a lot, but imagine if they were a real contender again? That means money. A longer playoff run means more money. Having a better team means more money.

Just think, like they said on First Take today, OKC once had IBAKA. HARDEN. DURANT. WESTBROOK. And even a strong defender like Sefolosha and Reggie Jackson. If they'd kept Harden, or at least gotten something better? I guess nobody thought The Beard would erupt like he did, but damn.

They need to try and trade Kanter, definitely. Heck, they should've let him take that offer from Portland I think it was. And seriously try to remember why they thought extending the heck outta Oladipo and raw Adams was a good idea. Teach Roberson how to shoot free throws, hire a better shooting staff, something. Bring in some better veterans. Get people training with Sabonis.

Maybe make a play for Porzingis.

rhino17
04-28-2017, 02:44 AM
Why do people keep saying add another star.

They had Durant and he didn't like playing with Westbrook. That tells you everything you need to know

I don't think thats true. I've never heard anyone say russel is a bad teammate.

Kevin wanted the easy way out. He didn't want to work for a title, he wanted to walk through one.

I don't ever see russel going down that path

FlashBolt
04-28-2017, 02:24 PM
We need to get rid of Kanter. This guy gets paid way too much and can't play a lick of defense. Having him on the court provides nothing because he'll score on one end and then stand and then let the other guy go right past him for an easy bucket. We need shooters more than anything. And I can't wait to get rid of Oladipitypoopoo. He's more concerned about singing than winning basketball games.

Tg11
04-29-2017, 05:26 PM
Okay but if the Thunder get rid of Oladipo then who can they realistically get

rhino17
04-29-2017, 06:13 PM
I'd love to see blake play with Russ. Package those big contracts for blake, works for both teams. Gives depth to the clips and gives a #2 for Russ. Then add add a pure shooting 2

Tg11
04-29-2017, 06:38 PM
Even if the Thunder were to somehow get Blake that still wouldn't be enough but who could they get realistically as a third option

Silent
04-29-2017, 07:30 PM
They will sign Griffin this year and trade either Kanter or Adams for more pieces

Quinnsanity
04-29-2017, 07:36 PM
Okay but if the Thunder get rid of Oladipo then who can they realistically get

Something I've thought about a bit, but never really considered the full implications of. What about Kevin Love and JR for Adams and Oladipo? OKC would have to find a new center somewhere else, but it does a lot to fix their offense, and Adams and Oladipo would fix a lot of Cleveland's defensive issues. Just throwing that out there. Again it's not something I've really thought much about, just an idea that's floated around my head a bit.

Tg11
04-29-2017, 07:44 PM
I would trade Adams and Oladipo to LA to the Clippers for Blake Griffin and Griffin playing with Russ you would have that option but also Adams and Oladipo seem to be a better fit in L.A. than in OKC but also with that comes cap space too

rhino17
04-29-2017, 07:53 PM
I think OKC needs to keep adams. I would try to swing a Kanter, Oladipo, draft picks package for blake

Tg11
04-29-2017, 08:12 PM
Kanter
Oladipo
Draft picks

To LAC for:

Blake Griffin

I actually think that that's a great trade to be honest

Quinnsanity
04-29-2017, 10:00 PM
Why would the Clippers want Kanter if they have DeAndre?

Honestly why would anyone want Kanter at this point? He's a useful innings eater in the regular season I guess, but he's useless in most playoff matchups.

And plus, I really don't think Blake would choose to play for OKC. He's a free agent after all, that's not a title team even with him and a lot of players aren't into the idea of going home (there was a big ESPN piece earlier this year about the concept, it's much more of a hassle than you realize).

Tg11
04-29-2017, 10:17 PM
Then I can definitely see Blake going to the Celtics rather than the Thunder but a player I can definitely see going to the Thunder would be PG-13 Paul George I can see him on the Thunder but in order for that to happen they would have to give up a lot to get George

FlashBolt
04-30-2017, 02:37 AM
Kanter is a total bum. Any team interested must be really desperate to remove someone. I want the Knicks to trade Melo for Kanter but even though they hate Melo, Kanter is pure garbage. We need shooters, a decent backup PG (like Shaun Livingston or Cory Joseph), and another All-Star. But seeing as we signed a 7 foot piece of **** to a lucrative contract and with Westy/Oladipo/Kanter, we have no cap. We have no trade pieces outside of Westy/Oladipitypoopoo because no one wants Kanter. Our best option is to get rid of Oladipo/Kanter and just some damn shooters. I don't want Roberson anywhere on this team. You can't shoot 10% from the FT line. IDC if you're the best defender in the world.

KnicksorBust
04-30-2017, 08:01 AM
trade for Love.

NY gets - Oladipo, Sabonis

CLE gets - Melo

OKC gets Love, Courtney Lee

CLE would be the holdup on if they want to move Love for Melo, but Love really disappears a lot, I think Melo would flourish as a 2nd/3rd option next to Melo

Knicks fans need to let the Melo to Cavs thing go...

KnicksorBust
04-30-2017, 08:01 AM
trade for Love.

NY gets - Oladipo, Sabonis

CLE gets - Melo

OKC gets Love, Courtney Lee

CLE would be the holdup on if they want to move Love for Melo, but Love really disappears a lot, I think Melo would flourish as a 2nd/3rd option next to Melo

Isn't that kind of what he's doing now?

This has me dying

KnicksorBust
04-30-2017, 08:08 AM
I think the toughest part about making OKC relevant is deciding what to do with Dipo. Theoretically he makes sense to keep. He is athletic, has an improving perimeter game (up to 36% from 3pt) and showed in Orlando that he can be a poor mans allstar 18-4-4. But man he was brutal in some of those playoff games. And the contract... I dont really like him or Roberson with Westy. I agree you gotta just hold Westbrook and do whatever it takes to bring in an allstar big like Blake. I would trade everybody to get him. I like Adams as a hold and Abrines/Mcbuckets are necessary just for the shooting but no one is untouchable. Would love Sabonis to break out. Then that team becomes very interesting even as is.

IndyRealist
04-30-2017, 08:55 AM
I think the toughest part about making OKC relevant is deciding what to do with Dipo. Theoretically he makes sense to keep. He is athletic, has an improving perimeter game (up to 36% from 3pt) and showed in Orlando that he can be a poor mans allstar 18-4-4. But man he was brutal in some of those playoff games. And the contract... I dont really like him or Roberson with Westy. I agree you gotta just hold Westbrook and do whatever it takes to bring in an allstar big like Blake. I would trade everybody to get him. I like Adams as a hold and Abrines/Mcbuckets are necessary just for the shooting but no one is untouchable. Would love Sabonis to break out. Then that team becomes very interesting even as is.

I think you need guys like Roberson and Adams around Westbrook, but they need SOMEONE to take some of the scoring load, preferably a wing.

Tg11
04-30-2017, 10:44 AM
Which is why they need to bring in PG-13 or Blake

krazylegz
04-30-2017, 10:17 PM
move back to seattle

Quinnsanity
05-01-2017, 03:24 AM
Something I want to point out, since Blake Griffin keeps coming up:

For a sign-and-trade to be legal, both teams involved have to remain below the tax apron ($4 million above the luxury tax line).

As of right now, if you include the cap holds of Chris Paul, Blake Griffin and JJ Redick, the Clippers are already over the tax and the apron. The Thunder are over the salary cap, and could therefore not simply absorb Griffin's salary, but rather would have to send matching salary back to the Clippers.

These are inexact calculations, but essentially, here's where the Clippers are. With Blake, Redick and Chris Paul's cap holds, the Clippers would be at around $137 million (I did these off the top of my head, but it's somewhere in that range). The apron is projected at $125 million, so a Blake sign-and-trade would have to get them below that number. J.J. Redick's cap hold, as a Bird Rights free agent, is 150% of his 2017 salary, so 1.5 multiplied by 7.3 is 11.1, which is basically the difference in where they'd be pre-trade and where they'd have to get afterwards. Unless the Clippers found a team that would take either Austin Rivers or Jamal Crawford off of their hands for free (doubtful), that means that for the Clippers to legally sign-and-trade Blake Griffin to the Thunder, they would have to renounce their rights to J.J. Redick to get within range of the apron (I'm assuming the specifics of the trade, thanks to the 125% rule, would do the rest, OKC has a very creative front office when it comes to salary).

Now ask yourselves this: what do the Thunder have to offer the Clippers that is worth, essentially, both Blake Griffin AND J.J. Redick? Because functionally, to trade Blake, they have to renounce their rights to Redick too. Personally, I do not see a package the Thunder could offer that is better for the Clippers than just keeping Blake and Redick.

By the way, the same rules apply to anyone who thinks that a Knicks sign-and-trade is coming. Is Carmelo worth both Blake and Redick? If a sign-and-trade is going to happen, it's going to be with a team that doesn't have max space but does have a bit of wiggle room so the Clippers won't have to take as much money back. Washington comes to mind as a team in this general cap situation, but I have no clue how much interest exists there. The likeliest scenario besides Griffin re-signing remains Blake leaving as an unrestricted free agent with no regards for what the Clippers get back. A sign-and-trade is extremely unlikely given the specifics of the Clippers' cap situation.

Saddletramp
05-01-2017, 05:29 AM
^^^Wish i woulda read this before googling stuff in the other thread. Basically answered my Clippers questions.

IndyRealist
05-01-2017, 08:23 AM
Could they not renounce Redick, sign and trade Blake, then sign Redick for the MLE?

FOXHOUND
05-01-2017, 09:22 AM
Step one - does Sam Presti get to keep his job? At some point, the spotlight has to hit him harder. There's no doubt that he did tremendous in those three drafts, the ones from 7-9 years ago now :o, and has made some nice moves along the way. However, some of those moves that started as looking smart haven't aged well.

I'm thinking more reasonably judging the Reggie Jackson and a 2017 1st for Enes Kanter, Kyle Singler and D.J. Augustine trade, rather than the Harden trade which had many shocking revelations in unfair to predict ways. Those mainly being the level of Harden's growth and the cap explosion. The next one is early, but how great is the Ibaka trade looking with some hindsight? Those two moves are what led to Kanter making $17M this year to play a healthy 9 MPG in the playoffs and Oladipo making $21M starting next year. They have to figure out if he can truly build a champion after failing to do so having such immense talent. On that note, do they resign Gibson?

Step two, I think whether Presti is still there or not, they need an identity change. The Westbrook show was a lot of fun, and a certain amount of crazy volume is definitely warranted with this roster, but he needs to be reeled in a bit. I don't care what anyone says, there's no universe where him chucking 9.8 3's a game at .265 in that series was helping them. I understand that Westbrook has to Westbrook but if that and those 6 TO a game is what comes with it then it will never lead to anything substantial. There's also no need or reason for his rebounding to be such a team wide focus. You had your fun grabbing triple doubles, now let Adams go back to grabbing a few of those rebounds and get back to contesting shots. They have to regain control of the team from Westbrook, no matter how great he is.

Step three, Oladipo can do more. You're paying the guy $21M now, don't pay that much for a glorified 3 and D guy. He proved he can do more than what he's doing now in Orlando, let him earn his money. This may simply coming down to staggering his and WB's minutes more. Let Dipo play with the 2nd unit more and lead them as high volume playmaker. Hell, maybe even try to start Abrines and use Oladipo as a high MPG 6th Man.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2017/lineups/

When you look at their lineups, the volume to which Donovan kept Westbrook, Oladipo, Roberson and Adams together was insanely high. The highest lineup with Oladipo on and Westbrook off was the 9th highest at just 49:53 of game time all season. It's much worse when you realize that Semaj Christon is there and that he started and played 30 minutes in the game vs Minnesota that Westbrook missed.

Step four, figure out a way to use Kanter. Despite making $17.1M and being the 2nd highest paid player on the roster this season, he ranked 9th on the team in MPG in the playoffs among players who played all 5 games. You don't have to be a mathematician to see that there is some terrible economics at work there. I'm not sure what they can do but they have to try something. He's turning 25 and entering a contract year. At the very least, he should be motivated to do whatever is takes to improve. If he does really well and even shows a noticeable improvement in DREB% and defense... trade his *** at the deadline. lol.

Ultimately, they don't have many options for any real flexibility. They're relying on Oladipo and Kanter taking leaps turning 25 and Adams and Abrines turning 24 for next season.

Quinnsanity
05-01-2017, 08:30 PM
Could they not renounce Redick, sign and trade Blake, then sign Redick for the MLE?

I doubt it. I believe that they would be hard capped at the apron if they engaged in a sign-and-trade, but don't quote me on that. The Thunder certainly would, but I'm not sure if the Clippers would. Even if they weren't, though, they'd still be over the tax and would therefore only have the taxpayer MLE to offer (assuming Redick's contract takes them above the apron, which it would), which I believe is 60% of the regular MLE. That's a really tiny offer for someone like Redick, whose shooting alone is going to net him over $10 million per year.


Step one - does Sam Presti get to keep his job? At some point, the spotlight has to hit him harder. There's no doubt that he did tremendous in those three drafts, the ones from 7-9 years ago now :o, and has made some nice moves along the way. However, some of those moves that started as looking smart haven't aged well.

I'm thinking more reasonably judging the Reggie Jackson and a 2017 1st for Enes Kanter, Kyle Singler and D.J. Augustine trade, rather than the Harden trade which had many shocking revelations in unfair to predict ways. Those mainly being the level of Harden's growth and the cap explosion. The next one is early, but how great is the Ibaka trade looking with some hindsight? Those two moves are what led to Kanter making $17M this year to play a healthy 9 MPG in the playoffs and Oladipo making $21M starting next year. They have to figure out if he can truly build a champion after failing to do so having such immense talent. On that note, do they resign Gibson?

Step two, I think whether Presti is still there or not, they need an identity change. The Westbrook show was a lot of fun, and a certain amount of crazy volume is definitely warranted with this roster, but he needs to be reeled in a bit. I don't care what anyone says, there's no universe where him chucking 9.8 3's a game at .265 in that series was helping them. I understand that Westbrook has to Westbrook but if that and those 6 TO a game is what comes with it then it will never lead to anything substantial. There's also no need or reason for his rebounding to be such a team wide focus. You had your fun grabbing triple doubles, now let Adams go back to grabbing a few of those rebounds and get back to contesting shots. They have to regain control of the team from Westbrook, no matter how great he is.

Step three, Oladipo can do more. You're paying the guy $21M now, don't pay that much for a glorified 3 and D guy. He proved he can do more than what he's doing now in Orlando, let him earn his money. This may simply coming down to staggering his and WB's minutes more. Let Dipo play with the 2nd unit more and lead them as high volume playmaker. Hell, maybe even try to start Abrines and use Oladipo as a high MPG 6th Man.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2017/lineups/

When you look at their lineups, the volume to which Donovan kept Westbrook, Oladipo, Roberson and Adams together was insanely high. The highest lineup with Oladipo on and Westbrook off was the 9th highest at just 49:53 of game time all season. It's much worse when you realize that Semaj Christon is there and that he started and played 30 minutes in the game vs Minnesota that Westbrook missed.

Step four, figure out a way to use Kanter. Despite making $17.1M and being the 2nd highest paid player on the roster this season, he ranked 9th on the team in MPG in the playoffs among players who played all 5 games. You don't have to be a mathematician to see that there is some terrible economics at work there. I'm not sure what they can do but they have to try something. He's turning 25 and entering a contract year. At the very least, he should be motivated to do whatever is takes to improve. If he does really well and even shows a noticeable improvement in DREB% and defense... trade his *** at the deadline. lol.

Ultimately, they don't have many options for any real flexibility. They're relying on Oladipo and Kanter taking leaps turning 25 and Adams and Abrines turning 24 for next season.

In a decade, Presti has drafted Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, Steven Adams, Reggie Jackson and Andre Roberson. I defy you to find me any other GM in basketball right now who has drafted three superstars, three good starters and a highly valuable specialist in a single decade. Presti is not a perfect GM. But you don't get rid of a guy who drafts that well.

FOXHOUND
05-01-2017, 11:57 PM
In a decade, Presti has drafted Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, Steven Adams, Reggie Jackson and Andre Roberson. I defy you to find me any other GM in basketball right now who has drafted three superstars, three good starters and a highly valuable specialist in a single decade. Presti is not a perfect GM. But you don't get rid of a guy who drafts that well.

Yeah, I get that, but who is left from that group? WB, Adams and Roberson. He parlayed some of those assets into Kanter and Oladipo who make $38M next year. Roberson is up for FA and will probably command $9M or so if they keep him. Gibson is also a FA, what do they do with him?

At the end of the day, next year they'll be paying WB, Adams, Oladipo and Kanter $89.9M of a $102M cap. Add in the role player wave of Abrines, Singler, McDermott and Sabonis and you've got another $16.2M. That's $106.1M, you're already done and with no flexibility on the horizon. Like I said, he did a tremendous job drafting almost a decade ago, but what they're left with now is what? It's great that he drafted three superstars but only one currently plays for the Thunder and it isn't the best of the three.

FlashBolt
05-02-2017, 12:42 AM
We got desperate and paid Adams more than he's worth and Kanter hasn't turned out to be reliable enough to keep on the court. Oladipo hasn't shown much improvement or urgency to be better than he is. Cash-strapped and too reliant on one guy. I'll be happy if we can just get 2-3 shooters who can defend and a backup PG. Preferably trade Kanter.

Mave1002
05-02-2017, 02:04 AM
First, you gotta consider if your top guy resigns. Second, you try to figure out how to pay your top guy. As per twitter:

SportsCenter‏Verified account @SportsCenter 4h4 hours ago
Russell Westbrook will be eligible for a 5-year, $217M "supermax," making him the highest-paid player in NBA history.

3rd, you figure out who you can get to help him out and how you pay this other guy and the remainder of the roster. Damn.

Tg11
05-02-2017, 08:37 AM
Exactly and if OKC does resign Westbrook to that supermax contract then it makes it difficult to sign anyone else or get anyone else in the off season but if they don't sign him to that contract then they risk Westbrook walking and joining another team