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View Full Version : What effect does a first-round sweep have on Paul George?



mrblisterdundee
04-24-2017, 12:25 AM
The Pacers losing to the defending champions is understandable, but what effect do you think it has on Paul George's thinking on where to play next? Does he try to force a trade? Do the Pacers risk trying to convince him to stay? And if so, how do they?

FlashBolt
04-24-2017, 12:31 AM
I know you guys will laugh at this but IMO, Cavs trade Love for PG.

c.c.
04-24-2017, 12:41 AM
I don't think it matters at all. PG body language towards his future has be giving me signals that he wants to play elsewhere regardless.

He wants to leave but I think he stays for them max dollars.

Quinnsanity
04-24-2017, 01:11 AM
I know you guys will laugh at this but IMO, Cavs trade Love for PG.

Why does Indiana do that? The rebuilding packages Boston or Los Angeles could offer are just way better. I'm as big a fan of Kevin Love as anyone, but they were a seven seed even with Paul George. Love makes them worse. What's the end game there?

Realistically Paul George doesn't have to force anything. He's a free agent next summer and can pick his destination. I don't think he'd mind all that much having to wait a year. The Pacers are the party that has to make a decision. Do they think he'll stay? Frankly, I'd trade him either way. It doesn't seem like this roster core will ever be able to contend for a championship. I'd start over. But if they really think he is leaving, they have to move him this summer. They can't lose him for nothing.

If they were going to trade him for an established player, it would have to be someone younger and with more upside than Kevin Love. C.J. McCollum comes to mind.

FlashBolt
04-24-2017, 01:23 AM
Why does Indiana do that? The rebuilding packages Boston or Los Angeles could offer are just way better. I'm as big a fan of Kevin Love as anyone, but they were a seven seed even with Paul George. Love makes them worse. What's the end game there?

Realistically Paul George doesn't have to force anything. He's a free agent next summer and can pick his destination. I don't think he'd mind all that much having to wait a year. The Pacers are the party that has to make a decision. Do they think he'll stay? Frankly, I'd trade him either way. It doesn't seem like this roster core will ever be able to contend for a championship. I'd start over. But if they really think he is leaving, they have to move him this summer. They can't lose him for nothing.

If they were going to trade him for an established player, it would have to be someone younger and with more upside than Kevin Love. C.J. McCollum comes to mind.

Because no one will offer a player for a one year term and PG wants to win other than LeBron. Cavs have space and it seems like PG + LJ have a great connection. Pacers would take it because Love would fit right in. He'll be a very serviceable player for them at a decent price and he's on a contract. End game is that they get someone in return for a player who most likely departs. Love has sucked for the Cavs and even though they won the championship, it would have made sense to trade Love. He blew in the Finals and if he doesn't step up again, I can see a trade happening.

PG comes off as a guy who wants to win so I can definitely see him try to prioritize it. He's mentioned having a better team as a reason for him making his next decision.

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 01:30 AM
It depends on the all nba team... If he doesnt get that he likely gets traded... If he does get the all NBA team he is a pacer for the next 7 years.

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 01:32 AM
Because no one will offer a player for a one year term and PG wants to win other than LeBron. Cavs have space and it seems like PG + LJ have a great connection. Pacers would take it because Love would fit right in. He'll be a very serviceable player for them at a decent price and he's on a contract. End game is that they get someone in return for a player who most likely departs. Love has sucked for the Cavs and even though they won the championship, it would have made sense to trade Love. He blew in the Finals and if he doesn't step up again, I can see a trade happening.

PG comes off as a guy who wants to win so I can definitely see him try to prioritize it. He's mentioned having a better team as a reason for him making his next decision.


http://www.libertyballers.com/2017/3/21/15003922/nba-trade-rumors-sixers-made-significant-offer-paul-george-pacers-trade-deadline-robert-covington


Lol what? Boston will jump at the chance and give up their lottery pick plus if they lose... Lakers and sixers as well.. Again... Look at the package the sixers offered them at the deadline

Covington... Young defensive talent that shoots 3s
The lakers lottery pick
The kings lottery pick in 2019
their choice of Noel/Oka/Holmes

The sixers were even willing to give up their own firsts if need be and the pacers said no.. But yes.. They will give him up for kevin love after saying no to this offer lol.

I would still be cutting myself if this trade went down.

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 01:36 AM
Standoffish though Larry Bird may have been, the Sixers did indeed make an offer for the Pacers forward. Multiple sources told Liberty Ballers the Sixers offered Indiana their choice of one of the Sixers’ young bigs, Robert Covington, and at least two first round picks for his services.

According to multiple sources, the Sixers’ preference was to keep their own future picks and move the draft rights of other teams — like those of the Lakers and Kings — in an effort to protect themselves against George leaving.


Yup but the team whom is an 8th seed with PG would decline this and jump at kevin love :laugh:

They would laugh at bird and hang up... call him back to laugh again and hang up

IKnowHoops
04-24-2017, 03:04 AM
I know you guys will laugh at this but IMO, Cavs trade Love for PG.

I actually can see something like this going down. We know Paul is not coming back. Pacers know Paul isn't coming back. Bird knows PG isn't coming back. And Love is his type of player. It would be a great return on a guy that is definitely out and can always play the "I won't resign with you card" if teams he doesn't like try to sign him. I can see the Paul George for Love Trade going down.

I think Paul has learned that he needs to play with superior talent for his career to go anywhere. He needs to play with 2-3 other super stars in order be able to compete for a championship. He saw what KD did last year, and I don't think there is any shame in his game when he goes to his next team. "He is going to take his talents to..." a place that gives him the best chance to win.

Plus you can tell PG has Bron's ultimate respect. As much as anyone not named KD or Leonard.

Lebron and PG13 would be absolutely perfect running mates. Both have a complete game, are long and very athletic. They would both make each other better.

IKnowHoops
04-24-2017, 03:20 AM
Why does Indiana do that? The rebuilding packages Boston or Los Angeles could offer are just way better. I'm as big a fan of Kevin Love as anyone, but they were a seven seed even with Paul George. Love makes them worse. What's the end game there?

Realistically Paul George doesn't have to force anything. He's a free agent next summer and can pick his destination. I don't think he'd mind all that much having to wait a year. The Pacers are the party that has to make a decision. Do they think he'll stay? Frankly, I'd trade him either way. It doesn't seem like this roster core will ever be able to contend for a championship. I'd start over. But if they really think he is leaving, they have to move him this summer. They can't lose him for nothing.

If they were going to trade him for an established player, it would have to be someone younger and with more upside than Kevin Love. C.J. McCollum comes to mind.

Not really, Superstars are really only worth other superstars. By rebuild package, you mean a bunch of hit or miss players, that may be slightly above or below average if they realize there talent. Wow, not that great. But even more importantly, who is going to trade there future for a one year rental? If PG makes it known he will only resign with the Cavs, then there goes at least two good reasons why the Pacers do it.

IKnowHoops
04-24-2017, 03:27 AM
Standoffish though Larry Bird may have been, the Sixers did indeed make an offer for the Pacers forward. Multiple sources told Liberty Ballers the Sixers offered Indiana their choice of one of the Sixers’ young bigs, Robert Covington, and at least two first round picks for his services.

According to multiple sources, the Sixers’ preference was to keep their own future picks and move the draft rights of other teams — like those of the Lakers and Kings — in an effort to protect themselves against George leaving.


Yup but the team whom is an 8th seed with PG would decline this and jump at kevin love :laugh:

They would laugh at bird and hang up... call him back to laugh again and hang up

LOL, the Cavs wouldn't trade Love for that pile of trash either. 5 hit or miss pieces for a superstar? And you are surprised that 5 pieces of garbage was turned down for a proven piece of gold? Kevin love will be an instant 23/12 guy for the pacers at an awesome price. These five picks will cost twice as much and none will start. LOL.

Quinnsanity
04-24-2017, 09:06 AM
Because no one will offer a player for a one year term and PG wants to win other than LeBron. Cavs have space and it seems like PG + LJ have a great connection. Pacers would take it because Love would fit right in. He'll be a very serviceable player for them at a decent price and he's on a contract. End game is that they get someone in return for a player who most likely departs. Love has sucked for the Cavs and even though they won the championship, it would have made sense to trade Love. He blew in the Finals and if he doesn't step up again, I can see a trade happening.

PG comes off as a guy who wants to win so I can definitely see him try to prioritize it. He's mentioned having a better team as a reason for him making his next decision.

The Cavs have space? In what regard? Cap space is a no, they have $125 million committed next season before re-signing Korver, they'd be over the cap even if Love's contract disappeared. Lineup space? Again, no, LeBron has been adamant that he won't switch to power forward full time. Until he indicates that he would, he is a small forward, and with the money invested in JR Smith they're set at shooting guard as well. So I'm not sure what you mean in that regard.

But of course, Paul George is so talented that you'd make the trade and figure the rest out later. Of course Cleveland would do it. It solves a lot of their problems, and frankly I think they're going to end up trading Kevin Love regardless. But there's no good reason for Indiana to do it. If you trade Paul George, you're locking yourself into a 6-8 seed for the next three years. What's appealing about that? Why do the Pacers want that? You're honestly better off letting George leave for free. At least then the value of your own first round picks go up for the next few years. I'd rather have three years of top 5 picks than Kevin Love and three years of 16-18th picks considering the rest of their roster. But of course, they don't have to let Paul George walk for free, they can get a nice bounty of rebuilding assets AND improve their own picks.

The goal here is to win the championship. It is not to make the playoffs. Some of you guys have to start thinking beyond the next six months, I don't think you know what endgame means. Getting a serviceable player in Indiana's specific situation has absolutely no value. If the Pacers have to suck for a little while to get back into championship contention then so be it. There is no value to being a No. 7 seed.


Not really, Superstars are really only worth other superstars. By rebuild package, you mean a bunch of hit or miss players, that may be slightly above or below average if they realize there talent. Wow, not that great. But even more importantly, who is going to trade there future for a one year rental? If PG makes it known he will only resign with the Cavs, then there goes at least two good reasons why the Pacers do it.

Oh you're operating under the delusion that Kevin Love is a superstar? That's cute. I love the guy and think he has a lot of value on the right team. But he is in no way, shape or form a superstar. I don't think he's even a top-30 player in the league anymore, and if you think otherwise it's because you're attached to the box score stats of a player who no longer exists. I don't think any team without a two-way LeBron-level superstar could win a championship with Kevin Love's defense on the floor at this point in time.

Indiana would just call PG's bluff if he said he'd only re-sign with the Cavs. The Cavs cannot sign him as a free agent, and as they would be above the tax apron on a PG13 max contract they couldn't sign-and-trade for him either. The Cavs have no leverage. That might work with a team like the Lakers, because they actually could sign him outright, but it wouldn't with Cleveland.

As far as the superstars only being traded for superstars thing, umm, how often are superstars really traded for each other? Almost never. If a team wants to trade a superstar, it's because his value at the moment of the trade is probably less than a superstar a team has no interest in trading. Paul George is a better player than, say, Mike Conley, but Memphis would never trade Conley on a long-term deal for George without one unless they reasonably felt it could win them the championship in that one season (or they could convince him to re-sign long term, which is doubtful). So lower your expectations. The only reason a player of George's caliber is available is because something is artificially depressing his value. In this case, it's the length of his contract and his stated willingness to explore free agency. There are very few teams with star caliber players to trade that make sense for Indiana and have reason to believe George brightens their long term prospects.

Portland is the one that makes sense. George solves their perimeter defense problems without hurting their offense, and McCollum has enough room for improvement that theoretically Indiana could eventually build a contender around him (as opposed to Love, who is at the very least not getting better at this age/injury history and is likely getting worse). A Portland team build around Damian Lillard and Paul George with the supporting pieces they'd have in place probably wins 55 games or so and makes at least the second round. Is that enough to convince George to stay? Maybe, maybe not. But he launches them into the realm of legitimate contention. It's fair to wonder if a team with Lillard and McCollum in the backcourt ever could with their defensive problems. This is the one case where the risk in trading a younger, locked up star might be worth the reward for the trading team.

The question I'd seriously ask you guys is what is the point of having Kevin Love if you're the Pacers? What is the best case scenario? Like let's say Kevin Love returns to his old form and Myles Turner becomes a star. Great. Considering the rest of their roster and Love's defensive deficiencies, I guess that makes you the New Orleans Pelicans? Would a team with 2014 Kevin Love and a much improved Myles Turner even be a top-5 seed in the East, considering Cleveland isn't going anywhere, Boston has max cap space and both Washington and Milwaukee are really young and primed to get better? All of this is before Philly's inevitable rise, the off chance Miami maintains their second half form or some random lottery luck changing the landscape of the conference (what if the Knicks had Fultz and Porzingis?). If Indiana traded Paul George for Kevin Love, even in the best case scenario, they are likely trading for the right to be ousted in the first round for the remainder of Love's contract. What is appealing about that.

I am going to state this as explicitly as possible. THE GOAL IS TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. We clear on that? An Indiana team led by Kevin Love has a 0% chance of winning a championship. It therefore does not make sense to trade Paul George for Kevin Love. Trade him for several bites at the superstar apple in the draft. The odds for a championship there may not be much higher, but they exist. I'd rather have a 1% shot at a championship than a 0% shot at one.

Quinnsanity
04-24-2017, 09:08 AM
Standoffish though Larry Bird may have been, the Sixers did indeed make an offer for the Pacers forward. Multiple sources told Liberty Ballers the Sixers offered Indiana their choice of one of the Sixers’ young bigs, Robert Covington, and at least two first round picks for his services.

According to multiple sources, the Sixers’ preference was to keep their own future picks and move the draft rights of other teams — like those of the Lakers and Kings — in an effort to protect themselves against George leaving.


Yup but the team whom is an 8th seed with PG would decline this and jump at kevin love :laugh:

They would laugh at bird and hang up... call him back to laugh again and hang up

That Philly offer makes very little sense on both sides. Indiana could do much better than that, and George does not fit Philly's timeline. They've got a good thing going here. Why try to cut the line? I get it with Kyle Lowry because he doesn't cost anything other than cap space. But by the time the rest of Philly's guys are ready to win championships George will be past his prime, and even if they traded every other young asset they had for guys in their primes, I doubt they could put together as much talent as Golden State.

warfelg
04-24-2017, 09:37 AM
The effect is this:

He gone.

Larry Legend needs to go into this acting like he's a criminal with a hostage. Get everything you can from the LAL. The issue is I don't know what Larry would want.

LAL can't trade a pick until 2020 or 2021 depending on what happens between now and then (aka the lottery).

I guess the really best they can hope for is that they keep a top 3 pick and take Fultz/Ball/Jackson. Trade the rookie, Ingram, Nance Jr, and hope to unload Moz of Deng along with their 2020 pick for PG alone.

If the LAL can't unload Deng or Moz and they do get PG that is a roster that's gonna be capped out and stuck for a while. They would really need some huge jumps.

Otherwise PG is in the same situation he's in with Indy but just in LA instead.

warfelg
04-24-2017, 09:49 AM
That Philly offer makes very little sense on both sides. Indiana could do much better than that, and George does not fit Philly's timeline. They've got a good thing going here. Why try to cut the line? I get it with Kyle Lowry because he doesn't cost anything other than cap space. But by the time the rest of Philly's guys are ready to win championships George will be past his prime, and even if they traded every other young asset they had for guys in their primes, I doubt they could put together as much talent as Golden State.

How does it not fit the timeline?

Paul is only 26, with about 6 more years in the prime. I would say it actually fits almost perfectly. He makes us better right now, and then when Simmons, Embiid, and whoever is left standing is on their upswing, PG likely has 2-3 years of prime left. And when they are in their prime PG is ready to come down from his.

Also GSW are about to take a huge hit this summer. They'll still have their big 4, but that depth is gonna be gone. Their big advantage is that they are so deep. We're starting to see that dwindle away. I'm not as optimistic as their fans of Iggy and Livingston staying as they are. Say Washington offers him 4/40 (I don't even know if they can afford it but play along for the sake of it), would he really turn that down for the min? I doubt it. Same with Livingston. Plenty of teams with cap space need a point. And while on the topic of GS, KD's health is starting to become a bit of a scare. It feels similar to Grant Hill in a way.

But anyways for the part I was replying to:
Time wise PG certainly works for Philly. Risk wise PG makes -100% sense. It would be too much to give up and not know that he would stay. Unless he were able to sign his extension the minute he landed here (I think this is the dumbest of NBA rules), I wouldn't trade for him.

Dade County
04-24-2017, 10:50 AM
The Pacers losing to the defending champions is understandable, but what effect do you think it has on Paul George's thinking on where to play next? Does he try to force a trade? Do the Pacers risk trying to convince him to stay? And if so, how do they?

He gone!


But I think Bird is the one thats going to be proactive in moving him. He can see the writing on the wall. Bird will go into rebuild mode and later on retire.

PG is traded near or on draft night.

IndyRealist
04-24-2017, 10:52 AM
I would have taken either the Philly or Celtics packages. No way in heck I'm trading him for Love. If PG gies it's a full rebuild, and Love is not the piece you build around. Why would the Pacers do that at all? It makes no sense to anyone not rooting for the Cavs.

Frankly I think George is gone, but I'm not sure Bird will trade him. He may end up walking for nothing because Bird is overly attached to his picks. It's really depends on all-NBA.

TheDish87
04-24-2017, 11:05 AM
I know you guys will laugh at this but IMO, Cavs trade Love for PG.

how does that benefit the Pacers?

mrblisterdundee
04-24-2017, 11:05 AM
How does it not fit the timeline?

Paul is only 26, with about 6 more years in the prime. I would say it actually fits almost perfectly. He makes us better right now, and then when Simmons, Embiid, and whoever is left standing is on their upswing, PG likely has 2-3 years of prime left. And when they are in their prime PG is ready to come down from his.

Also GSW are about to take a huge hit this summer. They'll still have their big 4, but that depth is gonna be gone. Their big advantage is that they are so deep. We're starting to see that dwindle away. I'm not as optimistic as their fans of Iggy and Livingston staying as they are. Say Washington offers him 4/40 (I don't even know if they can afford it but play along for the sake of it), would he really turn that down for the min? I doubt it. Same with Livingston. Plenty of teams with cap space need a point. And while on the topic of GS, KD's health is starting to become a bit of a scare. It feels similar to Grant Hill in a way.

But anyways for the part I was replying to:
Time wise PG certainly works for Philly. Risk wise PG makes -100% sense. It would be too much to give up and not know that he would stay. Unless he were able to sign his extension the minute he landed here (I think this is the dumbest of NBA rules), I wouldn't trade for him.

George would have to take a huge gamble that Embiid and Simmons are going to be healthy. Without them, he's in a worse situation than with the Pacers, who have their own promising young center — one who doesn't miss all or the majority of the season.

KnicksorBust
04-24-2017, 11:21 AM
This is why the NBA is so boring in the first round. Didn't Myles Turner just have a pretty amazing season for a 20 year old? They have quality players like Teague and CJ Miles. But because they got swept Paul George has to be traded? Teams can never stay together anymore?

Hawkeye15
04-24-2017, 11:32 AM
If I am the Wolves, I offer:

Wiggins, Dunn, future 1st round pick

KnicksorBust
04-24-2017, 11:57 AM
If I am the Wolves, I offer:

Wiggins, Dunn, future 1st round pick

That would be amazing... for you.

BoSox47
04-24-2017, 12:27 PM
Not really, Superstars are really only worth other superstars. By rebuild package, you mean a bunch of hit or miss players, that may be slightly above or below average if they realize there talent. Wow, not that great. But even more importantly, who is going to trade there future for a one year rental? If PG makes it known he will only resign with the Cavs, then there goes at least two good reasons why the Pacers do it.

Celtics have plenty of draft picks they can offer as well, as does Philly and Lakers depending on how the lottery rolls out.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2017, 12:40 PM
That would be amazing... for you.

well yeah. Look, George is leaving. You get what you can, which is hopefully young talent and picks.

Any other deal make sense, for a Wolves swap? Towns is out. Other than that, I would be fine with anyone being offered...

Dade County
04-24-2017, 01:16 PM
This is why the NBA is so boring in the first round. Didn't Myles Turner just have a pretty amazing season for a 20 year old? They have quality players like Teague and CJ Miles. But because they got swept Paul George has to be traded? Teams can never stay together anymore?

Come on man... He's been there for a while now, they can't manage to build a contender. They should rebuild.



If I am the Wolves, I offer:

Wiggins, Dunn, future 1st round pick

They shouldn't add Wiggins to the trade.

Dunn, 1st rd pick, LaVine & whatever filler you need to get it done. Remember no one will know if PG will re-sign with T Wolves when he's contract is up.

JasonJohnHorn
04-24-2017, 01:55 PM
If they get any nice offers in the off season, I'm sure they'll listen, and regardless, they'll make an effort to get better, and if they don't, they'll likely put him up before the trade deadline.

warfelg
04-24-2017, 02:40 PM
Celtics have plenty of draft picks they can offer as well, as does Philly and Lakers depending on how the lottery rolls out.

Lakers have a 2020 pick to trade at best.

If the 2017 pick goes to Philly their 2019 first goes to someone else (I can't remember who). If they keep their 2017 pick their 2018 pick goes to Philly, meaning 2020 is the next pick they can trade outright via NBA rules.

TheDish87
04-24-2017, 03:00 PM
Orlando gets the Lakers pick in 2019 if we get it this year, otherwise it becomes to 2nds. gotta love LAL still feeling the effects of the Howard trade all these years later.

Heediot
04-24-2017, 03:01 PM
McCollum for George works out for both teams.

PG13 adds more defense on the wing. Both CJ and Dame are weak defenders. Toss in Crabbe at the two and you at the 2 and your perimeter defense in the starting unit i much improved. Aminu/Hark and Nurkic up ront to round out the starting 5 isn't bad. Maybe they can make a move for a shot blocking 4/5 guy as well.

CJ gives the Pacers a nice player to build around. Him and Myles are a good start to a rebuild.

George to the Wolves would be nice also. The wolves have picks and prospects that can entice the Pacers. They improve their chances to get a playoff seed battling the Grizz/Blazers/Nuggets/Pelicans next year. Don't know if he re-signs if they fail to make the playoffs though it will be tough with or without him and no sure thing.

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2017, 03:05 PM
Standoffish though Larry Bird may have been, the Sixers did indeed make an offer for the Pacers forward. Multiple sources told Liberty Ballers the Sixers offered Indiana their choice of one of the Sixers’ young bigs, Robert Covington, and at least two first round picks for his services.

According to multiple sources, the Sixers’ preference was to keep their own future picks and move the draft rights of other teams — like those of the Lakers and Kings — in an effort to protect themselves against George leaving.


Yup but the team whom is an 8th seed with PG would decline this and jump at kevin love :laugh:

They would laugh at bird and hang up... call him back to laugh again and hang up

Bro that's not even a good package lol

IndyRealist
04-24-2017, 03:14 PM
Bro that's not even a good package lol

Noel, Covington, and two firsts is better than the offers I'm seeing on here from the Wolves, Lakers, and Cavs. Celtics deal still better than all of them, and that was a confirmed offer from the team.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2017, 03:16 PM
Noel, Covington, and two firsts is better than the offers I'm seeing on here from the Wolves, Lakers, and Cavs. Celtics deal still better than all of them, and that was a confirmed offer from the team.

you don't like my Wiggins, Dunn, and future 1st?

Damn it!

valade16
04-24-2017, 03:22 PM
McCollum for George works out for both teams.

PG13 adds more defense on the wing. Both CJ and Dame are weak defenders. Toss in Crabbe at the two and you at the 2 and your perimeter defense in the starting unit i much improved. Aminu/Hark and Nurkic up ront to round out the starting 5 isn't bad. Maybe they can make a move for a shot blocking 4/5 guy as well.

CJ gives the Pacers a nice player to build around. Him and Myles are a good start to a rebuild.

George to the Wolves would be nice also. The wolves have picks and prospects that can entice the Pacers. They improve their chances to get a playoff seed battling the Grizz/Blazers/Nuggets/Pelicans next year. Don't know if he re-signs if they fail to make the playoffs though it will be tough with or without him and no sure thing.

As a Blazer fan I would love to trade CJ for PG but I don't see it because we have nothing else we can really offer. Our 1st Round picks aren't very valuable and our young players we could add in (Crabbe or Harkless) are on large contracts ($17 mil and $10 mil respectively).

I just don't see a deal there.

Heediot
04-24-2017, 03:35 PM
As a Blazer fan I would love to trade CJ for PG but I don't see it because we have nothing else we can really offer. Our 1st Round picks aren't very valuable and our young players we could add in (Crabbe or Harkless) are on large contracts ($17 mil and $10 mil respectively).

I just don't see a deal there.

CJ, Harkless (10 million, isn't bad with the new nba economy for a solid role player like him), Denver Pick and a future pick is a solid package in my view. Maybe I am overvaluing McCollum and Harkless?

GREATNESS ONE
04-24-2017, 03:56 PM
D'angelo Russell, Clarkson or Randle, Hou 1st round pick and Loul Deng.

TheDish87
04-24-2017, 03:59 PM
thats the worst offer in here

IndyRealist
04-24-2017, 04:20 PM
thats the worst offer in here

Qft.

IndyRealist
04-24-2017, 04:21 PM
you don't like my Wiggins, Dunn, and future 1st?

Damn it!

Lol I don't like Wiggins. Bird might.

GREATNESS ONE
04-24-2017, 04:28 PM
Lololol you shoulda traded PG when you had the chance, nothing but low ball offers will be coming in now.


Check Cousins deal

TheDish87
04-24-2017, 04:41 PM
Qft.

?

ewing
04-24-2017, 04:42 PM
he cries

Hawkeye15
04-24-2017, 04:44 PM
Lol I don't like Wiggins. Bird might.

well that is why I am offering him, duh

BKLYNpigeon
04-24-2017, 05:15 PM
PG is going to sign with the Lakers as a free agent when his contract is up.

D Blue987
04-24-2017, 05:41 PM
Lololol you shoulda traded PG when you had the chance, nothing but low ball offers will be coming in now.


Check Cousins deal

This. George holds most of the leverage if he misses those all nba teams. He essentially gets a no trade clause by stating that he will/won't sign an extension after 1 year with whatever team wants to trade for him. That should in effect limit any offer for him and the teams with actual interest. Already reading stories of PG13 ex teammates saying he wants to wear P&G...

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/04/24/rumor-paul-george-told-former-pacers-teammates-he-wanted-to-join-the-lakers/

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 06:44 PM
Lol so let me get this right...

Covington- Really sick defender that shoots the 3 and is still young
Noel- Insane defender getting a big raise
2 lottery first round picks

This isnt a good deal but Kevin love is or Russ and Clarkson and the houston first and the pacers taking on deng is?

The sixers made them a huge offer and the pacers still declined... There is no trade that nets the cavs PG that doesnt start with Kyrie... That is number 1... Just stop.

There is no laker trade that can Happen that does not involve their top 3 pick and possibly ingram... Nobody is just going to ****ing take Deng/Moz lol

Wiggins package was a good offer though if I were the pacers I think Id rather have Levine maybe... Wiggins lack of molding has bothered me.


People act like the pacers have only a month to trade him... he is a top 15 player who isnt a head case like cousins was.... he has an entire year left under his contract...... Why in the blue hell would the pacers give him up for kevin ****ing love instead of rebuilding?

Why would the pacers give him up for Russ/Clarkson/Deng/Houston late first lol.

My god people.

tbbyolumbatobby
04-24-2017, 06:47 PM
His move and agility, I think

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 06:47 PM
This. George holds most of the leverage if he misses those all nba teams. He essentially gets a no trade clause by stating that he will/won't sign an extension after 1 year with whatever team wants to trade for him. That should in effect limit any offer for him and the teams with actual interest. Already reading stories of PG13 ex teammates saying he wants to wear P&G...

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/04/24/rumor-paul-george-told-former-pacers-teammates-he-wanted-to-join-the-lakers/

Do you remember this and all the articles as well?

One of the biggest reasons I’m told, that Kevin Durant may have the Lakers at the top of his list, is because the Lakers have been led to believe, by whom specifically I do not know, but the Lakers have been led to believe that it is a very good chance that the following year Russell Westbrook is coming.

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 06:50 PM
Lololol you shoulda traded PG when you had the chance, nothing but low ball offers will be coming in now.


Check Cousins deal

was known as a head case

is a center and not the driving force of a team like PG would be

Kings got a better offer but didnt accept it

Pacers front office isnt the kings front office.... Hell nobodies front office is the kings front office and this isnt mid year... Teams will be more inclined to start a full year with PG13... Esp teams that fall short and are trying to get over the hump

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 07:30 PM
Honest to god.... I am still laughing at the notion that in your minds the pacers would think about/take seriously let alone accept love for PG13.... Kevin love a player that was thought of as a lost cause until this season again who barely played in the finals... love who is making big money and if going to the pacers would do what exactly? how would that at all in any way help the pacers situation? Lol so the pacers will trade a top 15 player for a top 30-40 player that puts them in a worse situation over rebuilding? -genius-

Jeffy25
04-24-2017, 08:05 PM
Who can make a realistic package for PG that is competitive?

I don't think a team in the East is the right direction, though Boston certainly could.

I'm thinking out West. Can you imagine a package centered around Wiggins though?

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2017, 08:19 PM
Lol so let me get this right...

Covington- Really sick defender that shoots the 3 and is still young
Noel- Insane defender getting a big raise
2 lottery first round picks

This isnt a good deal but Kevin love is or Russ and Clarkson and the houston first and the pacers taking on deng is?

The sixers made them a huge offer and the pacers still declined... There is no trade that nets the cavs PG that doesnt start with Kyrie... That is number 1... Just stop.

There is no laker trade that can Happen that does not involve their top 3 pick and possibly ingram... Nobody is just going to ****ing take Deng/Moz lol

Wiggins package was a good offer though if I were the pacers I think Id rather have Levine maybe... Wiggins lack of molding has bothered me.


People act like the pacers have only a month to trade him... he is a top 15 player who isnt a head case like cousins was.... he has an entire year left under his contract...... Why in the blue hell would the pacers give him up for kevin ****ing love instead of rebuilding?

Why would the pacers give him up for Russ/Clarkson/Deng/Houston late first lol.

My god people.

The 2 lottery picks, sure but Covington is an average player same with Noel and Noel/Turner aren't a great fit. Now if you offered 2 lottery 1st and Ben Simmons then that would be intriguing

GREATNESS ONE
04-24-2017, 08:20 PM
Wiggins package is probably the best player to package around but PG holds all the leverage. He wants to wear Purple&Gold.... when you wait, your options dwindle away, Paul wants to be a Laker. Let's see what happens.

GiantsSwaGG
04-24-2017, 08:22 PM
Who can make a realistic package for PG that is competitive?

I don't think a team in the East is the right direction, though Boston certainly could.

I'm thinking out West. Can you imagine a package centered around Wiggins though?

Wiggins, Lavine, Rubio & 2 1st for George, Ellis & Joe Young

IndyRealist
04-24-2017, 08:50 PM
?

Qft = Quoted for Truth.

IndyRealist
04-24-2017, 08:54 PM
The 2 lottery picks, sure but Covington is an average player same with Noel and Noel/Turner aren't a great fit. Now if you offered 2 lottery 1st and Ben Simmons then that would be intriguing

Noel would have been a perfect fit next to Turner. Turner is an offensive jump shooter and defensive rim protector who doesn't rebound. Noel doesn't demand the ball, plays close to the rim, rebounds, and is fast enough to guard PnR. Noel is exactly what the Pacers needed.

kobe4thewinbang
04-24-2017, 09:06 PM
It isn't good. While he did show strides on the stat sheet, he also took some shots when he should've passed the ball and he took some verbal shots at teammates. Then, after swishing a 3, he demanded the ball (a shot that keeps the Pacers in the playoffs or takes them out) and he whiffed on it. So, he may be fine with that being his final moment as a Pacer. I don't blame him much, as the team is defensively pretty bad, guys just standing around, gift-wrapping a round for the Cavaliers to start getting its wits together. He's not a superstar yet, but Kawhi Leonard has really blown me away this season especially now with 43 points on a huge performance. Paul George should be envious. If I'm the Lakers, I don't know if I even want George this summer as opposed to next summer when he can join them at no cost. George hasn't been much of a leader, and Lance Stephenson had more of an impact in that series. George reminds me of Kobe by wanting to be the guy that takes all the shots, but frankly even DeRozan has been more clutch in Round 1. Lakers young core struggle with Kobe on the floor, and they don't need an alpha like Paul George that is not even on the superstar level yet. Other teams might need him more, and I think he does get traded this summer so the Pacers can move on properly cuz Thaddeus Young made more clutch shots than "PG-13."

Vee-Rex
04-24-2017, 09:15 PM
Paul George is so underrated.

kobe4thewinbang
04-24-2017, 09:15 PM
If I am the Wolves, I offer:

Wiggins, Dunn, future 1st round pickSurprised by this. Wiggins has a brighter future.

warfelg
04-24-2017, 09:16 PM
It isn't good. While he did show strides on the stat sheet, he also took some shots when he should've passed the ball and he took some verbal shots at teammates. Then, after swishing a 3, he demanded the ball (a shot that keeps the Pacers in the playoffs or takes them out) and he whiffed on it. So, he may be fine with that being his final moment as a Pacer. I don't blame him much, as the team is defensively pretty bad, guys just standing around, gift-wrapping a round for the Cavaliers to start getting its wits together. He's not a superstar yet, but Kawhi Leonard has really blown me away this season especially now with 43 points on a huge performance. Paul George should be envious. If I'm the Lakers, I don't know if I even want George this summer as opposed to next summer when he can join them at no cost. George hasn't been much of a leader, and Lance Stephenson had more of an impact in that series. George reminds me of Kobe by wanting to be the guy that takes all the shots, but frankly even DeRozan has been more clutch in Round 1. Lakers young core struggle with Kobe on the floor, and they don't need an alpha like Paul George that is not even on the superstar level yet. Other teams might need him more, and I think he does get traded this summer so the Pacers can move on properly cuz Thaddeus Young made more clutch shots than "PG-13."

Uhhh....

kobe4thewinbang
04-24-2017, 09:21 PM
Uhhh....Was making a comparison. Teams might not be high on Paul George, regardless, on top of them knowing the Pacers have little leverage in talks. If Spurs were dangling Kawhi Leonard, they'd have all 29 teams calling most likely. But PG-13 just got swept and didn't really even make it exciting. If they went down in 7 games and he was balling like Kawhi, then it would have helped him, and indirectly helped the Pacers to an extent.

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 09:36 PM
The 2 lottery picks, sure but Covington is an average player same with Noel and Noel/Turner aren't a great fit. Now if you offered 2 lottery 1st and Ben Simmons then that would be intriguing


Uhhh....

get him war lol

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 09:40 PM
Noel... a 23 year old amazing defender who can guard anything

the Lakers pick that could be 4-6 unlikely but even next year will be in the top 7.

2019 sac pick that will be a lottery pick....

We were also open to trading our own firsts if need be to get it done over the lakers and sac pick

Covington the weak part of the deal whom again is a great defender while shooting the 3.....

This package is better than every package offered in this thread by alot except the hawkeye wolves package though it could rival that with how overrated this upcoming draft has become to GMs so this years pick has more value.

Just at a loss for words

More-Than-Most
04-24-2017, 09:42 PM
This covington... Is the weak part of the deal... This guy.... :pity:

DEFENSE MATTERS PEOPLE


Now in Year 3 with the Sixers, Covington has solidified himself as a starting-caliber 3-and-D player, a self-explanatory role that every team seeks to fill.

There will always be a place in an NBA lineup for a 6-foot-9 forward who hits threes, guards the opposing team's best perimeter player, nabs two steals per game and hits 80 percent of his free throws.

Think Trevor Ariza, Kent Bazemore, James Posey.

Covington quickly emerged as a perimeter threat when the Sixers signed him away from the D-League in November 2014. In that first season, he shot a career-best 37.4 percent from three and showed glimpses of being a lockdown defender.

He's only built on that defensive success, becoming the type of agitator that opposing coaches warn their players about.

Here are a few stats behind Covington's defensive prowess:

• The players Covington has guarded this season have a collective field goal percentage of 45.4 percent when not facing him. Against him, they've shot 42.5 percent.

From three, Covington's opponents have shot 34.5 percent against him compared to 36.2 percent against everyone else.

• Covington averages 2.9 steals per 48 minutes -- fifth-most in the NBA among players with at least 50 games this season, behind only Manu Ginobili, Chris Paul, Draymond Green and Tony Allen.

• His company is even more exclusive when you account for blocks. Covington is averaging 1.9 steals and 1.0 block per game. The only three others averaging at least 1.5 steals and 1.0 block are Green, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Andre Drummond.

• It goes beyond steals, though. How about all those times Covington strips a ball that lands in a teammate's hands, or when he knocks a pass out of bounds to force the opponent to run a new set? Covington leads the NBA with 4.3 deflections per game. The only other player above 4.0 is Green.

• Covington's offense has also improved as the season's gone on. He struggled badly from three early in the season but has made more threes each month since December:

December: 26.7 percent

January: 35.9

February: 39.1

March: 39.7

Remember that 0-for-11 game Covington had in Utah at the end of December? That's right around the time the boos were at their loudest.

In 35 games since, Covington has averaged 15.3 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 2.2 steals, 1.2 blocks, shot 38 percent from three and 84 percent from the line. Talk about filling it up.

• The high arc on Covington's jumper enables him to get a three off even when a hand's in his face, but he's also become more well-rounded offensively this season. He's finishing better in traffic and adjusting his game to take more shots near the rim as defenders close out on him beyond the arc.

• And on shots between 3 and 16 feet, Covington has improved from 23.0 percent last season to 28.2 this season. Still not a good mark by any stretch, but he's improved upon that weakness. Mid-range shots are out of style in today's NBA, but you still need to show the ability to make a few to open up space elsewhere on the court.

Is Covington ever going to be a second- or third-leading scorer on a good team? Probably not, but that wasn't the role that got him to the NBA, the role that allowed him to stick with the Sixers or to grow into this 3-and-D prototype.

When you add the solid defense to those numbers over his last half-season, you get production any team would take.

warfelg
04-24-2017, 10:19 PM
Noel single handedly had Dallas go from a 112ish DRtg to 97 when he was on the court.

warfelg
04-24-2017, 10:22 PM
Sixers lineups featuring TJ McConnell, Gerald Henderson, Robert Covington, Dario Saric, Nerlens Noel was rated one of the best in the NBA with RockCov and Nerlens having the highest DRtng.

mrblisterdundee
04-25-2017, 12:05 AM
Who can make a realistic package for PG that is competitive?

I don't think a team in the East is the right direction, though Boston certainly could.

I'm thinking out West. Can you imagine a package centered around Wiggins though?

I think Minnesota would be too worried about losing him in free agency. George doesn't seem like a very trustworthy guy.
Just let Los Angeles throw Ingram, Clarkson and a pick at Indiana, which should take that trade the second it's offered unless Boston or Philadelphia willing to take a bigger risk on him.

More-Than-Most
04-25-2017, 12:34 AM
I think Minnesota would be too worried about losing him in free agency. George doesn't seem like a very trustworthy guy.
Just let Los Angeles throw Ingram, Clarkson and a pick at Indiana, which should take that trade the second it's offered unless Boston or Philadelphia willing to take a bigger risk on him.

The sixers clearly would be.... They offered Noel/Covington/Lakers lottery first and the kings... They were also willing to offer their own firsts if need be but the pacers said no... That is why I say it would need to be ingram and their pick this year for George... I love Ingram but he didnt have the best rookie season.... Hell hawk was willing to offer wiggins and dunn plus which is fair value... Some of these other offers are just so far fetched is ludicrous considering what the pacers turned down from the sixers.

Covington and Noel are both better than clarkson... On top of that we offered the 2 lottery firsts... I think the lakers/sixers would be moronic to trade for him... Celtics id understand because they are closer to the cavs and top team in the East.

More-Than-Most
04-25-2017, 12:38 AM
Realistic trade packages include

Sixers- Their top 3 pick this year if they were to jump up that high/Sac first in 2019/Covington and one of Oka or Holmes.

Lakers- Ingram and their top 3 pick this year plus possibly clarkson

Celtics- Their nets pick this year/Crowder and possibly another player or their pick next year

Wolves- Wiggins and Dunn and something else


You arent ****ing getting him for clarkson/randle and deng lol

Again personally if lakers/sixers/wolves get the number 1 overall pick you keep it and draft fultz... That being said I dont think any of those teams should give this up for him except the celtics because that puts them with the cavs.

IKnowHoops
04-25-2017, 12:47 AM
The sixers clearly would be.... They offered Noel/Covington/Lakers lottery first and the kings... They were also willing to offer their own firsts if need be but the pacers said no... That is why I say it would need to be ingram and their pick this year for George... I love Ingram but he didnt have the best rookie season.... Hell hawk was willing to offer wiggins and dunn plus which is fair value... Some of these other offers are just so far fetched is ludicrous considering what the pacers turned down from the sixers.

Covington and Noel are both better than clarkson... On top of that we offered the 2 lottery firsts... I think the lakers/sixers would be moronic to trade for him... Celtics id understand because they are closer to the cavs and top team in the East.

Don't confuse Hawkeye with the actual T-wolves front office. Hawk thinks little of Wiggins but Thibs thinks Wiggins is the most talented player on the team. Wolves would not give all that up for Paul George. I like Paul George a lot, but not that much. I'd bet the Cavs would take Dunn, Wiggins, and the Wolves 1st over Paul George.

IKnowHoops
04-25-2017, 12:56 AM
Realistic trade packages include

Sixers- Their top 3 pick this year if they were to jump up that high/Sac first in 2019/Covington and one of Oka or Holmes.

Lakers- Ingram and their top 3 pick this year plus possibly clarkson

Celtics- Their nets pick this year/Crowder and possibly another player or their pick next year

Wolves- Wiggins and Dunn and something else


You arent ****ing getting him for clarkson/randle and deng lol

Again personally if lakers/sixers/wolves get the number 1 overall pick you keep it and draft fultz... That being said I dont think any of those teams should give this up for him except the celtics because that puts them with the cavs.

I could see the Wolves doing a Rubio+Wiggins and nothing else at most, but I doubt they even trade Wiggins. I wouldn't be surprised if they think Wiggins will be better than Paul. And it won't surprise me at all if he does surpass Paul in about 2-3 years.

5ass
04-25-2017, 01:08 AM
you don't like my Wiggins, Dunn, and future 1st?

Damn it!

Would you give up that same package for Butler?

More-Than-Most
04-25-2017, 01:09 AM
I could see the Wolves doing a Rubio+Wiggins and nothing else at most, but I doubt they even trade Wiggins. I wouldn't be surprised if they think Wiggins will be better than Paul. And it won't surprise me at all if he does surpass Paul in about 2-3 years.

FML I will not sit here and argue for PG13... Nope... Not ... gonna.... happen... FML... Ok you do realize PG13 is one of the best 2 way players right? Wiggins isnt. He has not taken the next step at all.. High volume guy who leaves alot to be desired everywhere else esp defense and passing.

where has the growth been? He has gone up 3 ppg this year but its because he is taking 3 plus more shots a game... He is literally avg the same amount of assists to turnovers and his defense is laughable.

More-Than-Most
04-25-2017, 01:12 AM
Would you give up that same package for Butler?

that should be a no doubt about it considering butler is better and on a much better contract going forward while being locked down

Mave1002
04-25-2017, 01:57 AM
Keep your "packages". It's the safest thing to do. All these assets for a one year rental?

We all know where PG13 will ULTIMATELY land.

Mave1002
04-25-2017, 02:03 AM
Realistic trade packages include

Sixers- Their top 3 pick this year if they were to jump up that high/Sac first in 2019/Covington and one of Oka or Holmes.

Lakers- Ingram and their top 3 pick this year plus possibly clarkson

Celtics- Their nets pick this year/Crowder and possibly another player or their pick next year

Wolves- Wiggins and Dunn and something else

You arent ****ing getting him for clarkson/randle and deng lol

Again personally if lakers/sixers/wolves get the number 1 overall pick you keep it and draft fultz... That being said I dont think any of those teams should give this up for him except the celtics because that puts them with the cavs.

Never forget what the Pelicans had to give up. It was a pretty heavy package. Buddy Hield, Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway.

More-Than-Most
04-25-2017, 02:06 AM
Never forget what the Pelicans had to give up. It was a pretty heavy package. Buddy Hield, Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway.

then you realize the kings front office is the worst in the NBA and admitting to having a better offer 2 days earlier lol.

Pacers declined a great deal from the sixers and others... They arent going to make the mistake the kings made. Also you forgot that it was Hield which was just a lottery pick... A 2017 first round pick and a future 2nd on top of that...

And that is still a **** deal... That is why i say its ******** that people think Clarkson/Randle are enough when they dont even equate to the value of that 2017 first and hield... And you want them to take on deng? :laugh:

kobe4thewinbang
04-25-2017, 02:21 AM
Lakers have zero reason to trade ANYONE for Paul George, especially any of the young core.
That would be like never firing Jim Buss and Mitch Kupchak in the first place. Magic ain't doing that.
All I could see LA doing is trading the pick and maybe role players for Paul George. Pacers ain't doing that.

Quinnsanity
04-25-2017, 06:51 AM
If I am the Wolves, I offer:

Wiggins, Dunn, future 1st round pick

This is the most interesting offer I've seen. I'm a really anti-Wiggins guy because, you know, players should try on defense, but I'd certainly rather have Wiggins than anyone else being thrown out there besides Ball/Fultz/Jackson. I'd rather have Wiggins than basically the entire current Lakers roster. Plus Dunn and a 1st? That's a nice offer. Almost a full 100 cents on the dollar, and KAT is so good already and they have so much cap space that they could theoretically build a contender right now.


How does it not fit the timeline?

Paul is only 26, with about 6 more years in the prime. I would say it actually fits almost perfectly. He makes us better right now, and then when Simmons, Embiid, and whoever is left standing is on their upswing, PG likely has 2-3 years of prime left. And when they are in their prime PG is ready to come down from his.

Also GSW are about to take a huge hit this summer. They'll still have their big 4, but that depth is gonna be gone. Their big advantage is that they are so deep. We're starting to see that dwindle away. I'm not as optimistic as their fans of Iggy and Livingston staying as they are. Say Washington offers him 4/40 (I don't even know if they can afford it but play along for the sake of it), would he really turn that down for the min? I doubt it. Same with Livingston. Plenty of teams with cap space need a point. And while on the topic of GS, KD's health is starting to become a bit of a scare. It feels similar to Grant Hill in a way.

But anyways for the part I was replying to:
Time wise PG certainly works for Philly. Risk wise PG makes -100% sense. It would be too much to give up and not know that he would stay. Unless he were able to sign his extension the minute he landed here (I think this is the dumbest of NBA rules), I wouldn't trade for him.

Come on War. You're really trying to contend with Golden State? Look I'm as optimistic about Philly's future as anyone but you're being utterly ridiculous. You are not beating the Warriors at their peak. Try to beat them when they're old, or when they're done. Titles in six or seven years have no less value than titles right now.

Also, the Warriors are going to be able to keep Iguodala. Here's their basic cap situation:

$101 million cap

Klay: $17.8 million
Draymond: $16.4 million
James: $1.2 million
Looney: $1.2 million
McCaw: $900,000

So that' $37.5 million in committed salary.

Stephen Curry cap hold: $18 million (150% of 12 million, his current salary).

So that's $55.5 million in committed salary.

Kevin Durant max contract: $35.35 million (35% of $101 million)

So that's $90.85 million in committed salary for seven players. Add in four minimum cap holds around $550k and you're up to $93 million, basically. So they could offer him a four-year deal starting at around $8 million, with 4.5% raises (because they'd technically have to renounce him and couldn't use bird rights to give him 7.5%), that's basically a four-year, $34 million deal. I'm inclined to believe Iguodala stays in GSW for that money if his best offer is four-years, $40 million from someone else (side note, it would not be Washington, they have no money to offer). And this all assumes Durant takes the full max. If he took slightly less they'd be able to give Iguodala more. So he's staying. Livingston might go, and he hasn't made that much money so it wouldn't surprise me, but if the most talented team of all time is retaining its best five players I'm inclined to think Philly has no immediate chance of beating them even if they got Paul George and signed, say, Kyle Lowry.

Just be happy with what you have War. You've got a great young team with an enormously bright future. Don't try to skip developmental steps for meager gains. Do this slow, and do it right.

Quinnsanity
04-25-2017, 07:02 AM
Don't confuse Hawkeye with the actual T-wolves front office. Hawk thinks little of Wiggins but Thibs thinks Wiggins is the most talented player on the team. Wolves would not give all that up for Paul George. I like Paul George a lot, but not that much. I'd bet the Cavs would take Dunn, Wiggins, and the Wolves 1st over Paul George.

I'd be curious how much thought Thibs has given to a Wiggins-for-Jimmy Butler type deal, just because he's coached Jimmy Butler and, well, Jimmy Butler is better than Paul George (and locked into a longer, cheaper deal). I'd be trying to cash in the Wiggins trading chip for something this summer. I'm not sure if the answer if George, Butler, or maybe going the other way and trying to trade Wiggins for, say, the Lonzo Ball or Markelle Fultz pick, but I don't think his value will ever be higher and I don't think he's particularly conducive to championship basketball. He doesn't try on defense, he can't really shoot three's, he's so iso heavy, he's basically going to max out as a better DeMar DeRozan.


Lakers have zero reason to trade ANYONE for Paul George, especially any of the young core.
That would be like never firing Jim Buss and Mitch Kupchak in the first place. Magic ain't doing that.
All I could see LA doing is trading the pick and maybe role players for Paul George. Pacers ain't doing that.

If you're the Lakers, do you really want to risk another team trading for George and him liking his new destination? Let's say the Celtics offer their Brooklyn pick plus Crowder and Rozier or something, and then they win 60 games. Do you really think he's leaving that situation for a very uncertain Lakers team? It's just an enormous risk. This is not the Carmelo-Knicks situation in 2011. There are teams that could win a whole lot bidding for him here, and it's entirely possible that he enjoys the situation he finds himself in if he's traded to a non-Lakers team. I'm not saying you break up the entire team to get Paul George. Frankly, he's not good enough to warrant that. But say you get the pick. Trading it, Russell and Randle for George makes sense if you think there's a realistic chance Westbrook is coming the next summer (which invokes other cap maneuvers, but that's a separate conversation). Giving up all those guys becomes worthwhile if it means you have a Westbrook-Paul George-Brandon Ingram core. If the alternative is rolling the dice and potentially missing out on George (and Westbrook) altogether, I say you go for it.

Vinylman
04-25-2017, 07:07 AM
Lakers have a 2020 pick to trade at best.

If the 2017 pick goes to Philly their 2019 first goes to someone else (I can't remember who). If they keep their 2017 pick their 2018 pick goes to Philly, meaning 2020 is the next pick they can trade outright via NBA rules.

you guys really don't understand how the rules can be worked around...

take this year for instance... even if the lakers keep their first this year they can still trade it even though they have already traded next years pick because they have the Houston pick this year...

the rule just states that you have to have a first round pick ... it doesn't state whose it has to be ...

going out and BUYING / TRADING for a pick late in the first round is pretty easy anymore when you consider that some teams have multiple picks...

back on topic... it is pretty straightforward... if he makes all NBA he stays under the DPE ... if he doesn't he plays one more year wherever and then signs with the Lakers in 2018...

In fact, if he signs the DPE I still think he gets traded and the haul for Indy would be massive

warfelg
04-25-2017, 07:33 AM
Come on War. You're really trying to contend with Golden State? Look I'm as optimistic about Philly's future as anyone but you're being utterly ridiculous. You are not beating the Warriors at their peak. Try to beat them when they're old, or when they're done. Titles in six or seven years have no less value than titles right now.

Name me a team that did it without making a big move.


Also, the Warriors are going to be able to keep Iguodala. Here's their basic cap situation:

$101 million cap

Klay: $17.8 million
Draymond: $16.4 million
James: $1.2 million
Looney: $1.2 million
McCaw: $900,000

So that' $37.5 million in committed salary.

Stephen Curry cap hold: $18 million (150% of 12 million, his current salary).

So that's $55.5 million in committed salary.

Kevin Durant max contract: $35.35 million (35% of $101 million)

So that's $90.85 million in committed salary for seven players. Add in four minimum cap holds around $550k and you're up to $93 million, basically. So they could offer him a four-year deal starting at around $8 million, with 4.5% raises (because they'd technically have to renounce him and couldn't use bird rights to give him 7.5%), that's basically a four-year, $34 million deal. I'm inclined to believe Iguodala stays in GSW for that money if his best offer is four-years, $40 million from someone else (side note, it would not be Washington, they have no money to offer). And this all assumes Durant takes the full max. If he took slightly less they'd be able to give Iguodala more. So he's staying. Livingston might go, and he hasn't made that much money so it wouldn't surprise me, but if the most talented team of all time is retaining its best five players I'm inclined to think Philly has no immediate chance of beating them even if they got Paul George and signed, say, Kyle Lowry.

That may be Steph Curry's cap hold, but you need to calculate based off his max, which is what he's going to get. 5 years $205 million. So now redo the math.


Just be happy with what you have War. You've got a great young team with an enormously bright future. Don't try to skip developmental steps for meager gains. Do this slow, and do it right.

Again. Name me a team that's done it without bringing in some outside help.

Quinnsanity
04-25-2017, 09:00 AM
That may be Steph Curry's cap hold, but you need to calculate based off his max, which is what he's going to get. 5 years $205 million. So now redo the math.

You're ignoring order of operations. Yes, Curry's max deal will be included on their actual cap sheet, but I'm speaking purely in terms of how they can fit guys under the cap. If the Warriors retain Curry's rights, his cap figure is only 150% of his previous salary, so around $18 million. That means they just have to make sure he signs his new deal last. This is the same cap maneuver that allowed the Spurs to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. They intentionally didn't extend Kawhi Leonard so they could use his low cap hold to create artificial cap space for Aldridge. Then, once Aldridge signed, they signed Leonard afterwards. Their total salary ended up going way past the cap, but it was legal because of the order in which the deals were signed. That's an added advantage of having guys on smaller deals, it creates fake cap space even when their contracts expire. The Pistons did the same thing with Andre Drummond last year. It happens every year. So yes, once Curry signs his max, Golden State's actual cap number will jump why beyond the raw salary cap. But because they have his bird rights his cap hold will be far lower than his actual salary, a loophole that teams exploit constantly, and Golden State will use that to retain Durant and Iguodala even if it creates tax problems down the line.


Name me a team that did it without making a big move. Again. Name me a team that's done it without bringing in some outside help.

Well, the Spurs come to mind. At the very least their first four championship teams were pretty purely home grown. If you want to quibble over Kawhi Leonard being that "outside help" in the fifth, fine. The first Bulls three-peat was pretty much entirely home grown as well. Bill Cartwright was the best import, and let's be honest, they'd have won those titles with Oakley in Cartwright's place. There are a few more I could pick and choose from, but you get the idea.

More importantly, where have I said the Sixers shouldn't make any moves? Of course they should be open minded, if the right player becomes available by all means add him. I'm sure that the roster that Philadelphia eventually contends with has some free agent signings and trade acquisitions. But that doesn't mean you have to blow your wad on Paul George now. It doesn't make sense. You want players in their early 20's right now, guys who will hit their primes at the same time Embiid, Simmons, Saric and their other draft picks are likely to. If Devin Booker were somehow available on the trade market, for example, I'd totally endorse trading a boatload for him. If Minnesota decides they aren't comfortable paying LaVine? I love that fit for Philly. By all means make moves. Just make the right moves. Don't rush. Don't feel the need to make the playoffs next year or contend by a certain, specific point. Just continue to bring in talented young players and let the moves that eventually come be organic.


Lakers have a 2020 pick to trade at best.

If the 2017 pick goes to Philly their 2019 first goes to someone else (I can't remember who). If they keep their 2017 pick their 2018 pick goes to Philly, meaning 2020 is the next pick they can trade outright via NBA rules.

Let's clarify the rules on this:

As of right now, the Lakers have two pick obligations: their 2017 pick, should it fall outside of the top 3, belongs to Philadelphia. Their 2019 pick, totally unprotected, belongs to Orlando (through the Dwight Howard trade).

But that protection on the 2017 pick is monumentally important. Pick protections can last no longer than five years. Therefore, if a team manages to keep their pick within the bounds of the protections for a certain number of consecutive seasons, the obligation of a first round pick becomes, depending on the terms of the specific trade, either one or two second round picks. The Lakers have so far been able to protect that pick owed to Philadelphia for two consecutive years. But as the Orlando pick is two years later than the Philadelphia pick, the clock on it is at the four year mark. Therefore, if the Lakers keep their 2017 pick, their first round debt to Orlando will expire and become two second round picks, because their 2018 first round pick would unconditionally belong to Philadelphia and their 2020 pick would exist beyond the designated timeframe for pick protections.

In the most basic terms, here's what that means: either the Lakers will surrender their 2017 first round pick to Philadelphia and their 2019 first round pick to Orlando, or they will surrender their 2018 first round pick to Philadelphia and their 2017 and 2018 second round picks to Orlando.

So yes, according to the Stepien Rule, the Lakers cannot trade their own first round pick until 2020 (should they keep their pick this season), or 2021 (should they lose their pick this season). This does not prevent them from trading players that they draft, they just cannot trade the picks themselves until they have been made. Just for the sake of clarification and my own boredom.

Vinylman
04-25-2017, 09:41 AM
You're ignoring order of operations. Yes, Curry's max deal will be included on their actual cap sheet, but I'm speaking purely in terms of how they can fit guys under the cap. If the Warriors retain Curry's rights, his cap figure is only 150% of his previous salary, so around $18 million. That means they just have to make sure he signs his new deal last. This is the same cap maneuver that allowed the Spurs to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. They intentionally didn't extend Kawhi Leonard so they could use his low cap hold to create artificial cap space for Aldridge. Then, once Aldridge signed, they signed Leonard afterwards. Their total salary ended up going way past the cap, but it was legal because of the order in which the deals were signed. That's an added advantage of having guys on smaller deals, it creates fake cap space even when their contracts expire. The Pistons did the same thing with Andre Drummond last year. It happens every year. So yes, once Curry signs his max, Golden State's actual cap number will jump why beyond the raw salary cap. But because they have his bird rights his cap hold will be far lower than his actual salary, a loophole that teams exploit constantly, and Golden State will use that to retain Durant and Iguodala even if it creates tax problems down the line.



Well, the Spurs come to mind. At the very least their first four championship teams were pretty purely home grown. If you want to quibble over Kawhi Leonard being that "outside help" in the fifth, fine. The first Bulls three-peat was pretty much entirely home grown as well. Bill Cartwright was the best import, and let's be honest, they'd have won those titles with Oakley in Cartwright's place. There are a few more I could pick and choose from, but you get the idea.

More importantly, where have I said the Sixers shouldn't make any moves? Of course they should be open minded, if the right player becomes available by all means add him. I'm sure that the roster that Philadelphia eventually contends with has some free agent signings and trade acquisitions. But that doesn't mean you have to blow your wad on Paul George now. It doesn't make sense. You want players in their early 20's right now, guys who will hit their primes at the same time Embiid, Simmons, Saric and their other draft picks are likely to. If Devin Booker were somehow available on the trade market, for example, I'd totally endorse trading a boatload for him. If Minnesota decides they aren't comfortable paying LaVine? I love that fit for Philly. By all means make moves. Just make the right moves. Don't rush. Don't feel the need to make the playoffs next year or contend by a certain, specific point. Just continue to bring in talented young players and let the moves that eventually come be organic.



Let's clarify the rules on this:

As of right now, the Lakers have two pick obligations: their 2017 pick, should it fall outside of the top 3, belongs to Philadelphia. Their 2019 pick, totally unprotected, belongs to Orlando (through the Dwight Howard trade).

But that protection on the 2017 pick is monumentally important. Pick protections can last no longer than five years. Therefore, if a team manages to keep their pick within the bounds of the protections for a certain number of consecutive seasons, the obligation of a first round pick becomes, depending on the terms of the specific trade, either one or two second round picks. The Lakers have so far been able to protect that pick owed to Philadelphia for two consecutive years. But as the Orlando pick is two years later than the Philadelphia pick, the clock on it is at the four year mark. Therefore, if the Lakers keep their 2017 pick, their first round debt to Orlando will expire and become two second round picks, because their 2018 first round pick would unconditionally belong to Philadelphia and their 2020 pick would exist beyond the designated timeframe for pick protections.

In the most basic terms, here's what that means: either the Lakers will surrender their 2017 first round pick to Philadelphia and their 2019 first round pick to Orlando, or they will surrender their 2018 first round pick to Philadelphia and their 2017 and 2018 second round picks to Orlando.

So yes, according to the Stepien Rule, the Lakers cannot trade their own first round pick until 2020 (should they keep their pick this season), or 2021 (should they lose their pick this season). This does not prevent them from trading players that they draft, they just cannot trade the picks themselves until they have been made. Just for the sake of clarification and my own boredom.

The bolded is wrong... because they have the Houston pick they can trade their own in 2017 if they keep it...

Septien rule interpretation by the league just means you can't trade CONSECUTIVE FUTURE 1st rounders (ie you must have a first round pick in a given year whether it is yours or someone elses).

all the lakers would have to do to trade THEIR 2019 pick is to acquire another 2019 first rounder

warfelg
04-25-2017, 09:42 AM
I know that about the LAL pick, but it's going to take multiple picks. That means possible 2017 pick (after it's made) and 2020/21 + likely 2022/23 pick included. I doubt the Pacers would want to wait that long.

I'm not responding to the other two things because in both points it's kinda moot. Especially the cap hold stuff. Not only do you use them, but if someone signs for more that then they have to keep the cap space for the players they want to keep and renounce someone elses. Basically to keep so many of that you suggest they will loose someone. It's kinda naive IMO to think that they will keep everyone this offseason.

As for the Spurs thing.....completely different. Your talking about a team with a top 5 player at the time that tanked one season and got one of the better players ever to come along in the draft and got another top 5-10 talent in the league for a long time. That is such a unique situation that you can't compare or use for a blueprint for any other.

kobe4thewinbang
04-25-2017, 06:59 PM
If you're the Lakers, do you really want to risk another team trading for George and him liking his new destination? Let's say the Celtics offer their Brooklyn pick plus Crowder and Rozier or something, and then they win 60 games. Do you really think he's leaving that situation for a very uncertain Lakers team? It's just an enormous risk. This is not the Carmelo-Knicks situation in 2011. There are teams that could win a whole lot bidding for him here, and it's entirely possible that he enjoys the situation he finds himself in if he's traded to a non-Lakers team. I'm not saying you break up the entire team to get Paul George. Frankly, he's not good enough to warrant that. But say you get the pick. Trading it, Russell and Randle for George makes sense if you think there's a realistic chance Westbrook is coming the next summer (which invokes other cap maneuvers, but that's a separate conversation). Giving up all those guys becomes worthwhile if it means you have a Westbrook-Paul George-Brandon Ingram core. If the alternative is rolling the dice and potentially missing out on George (and Westbrook) altogether, I say you go for it.You did a more intelligible spin on the possibility, thanks. I could be swayed by a smart offer, but I have not seen any convincing evidence that a guy like Westbrook is going to ditch OKC after the season he has had. I could see that changing if Sam Presti the GM doesn't get him some real help on the perimeter, for sure. If I'm Magic, maybe I wait and see if OKC makes the first move. Or I would trade for Westbrook rather than George, if it means letting go of the young talents (probably means losing more than just one or two). I think Ingram may become a suitable substitute for George, but OKC probably wants Ingram in that swap.

If the stars were to align and Westbrook declares his plans to join the Lakers, then maybe Magic should fire sale the youth project, but I don't see that happening, so I stand by what I said, unless this first round really winds up pissing off Westbrook. It's likely OKC will lose, so we'll see. But I still don't like the idea of trading D'Lo and Randle for PG-13. Still too much if you ask me. Like I said, if PG had a better series, I would feel differently.

But still a solid response. I just don't see Ingram being still around in that dream scenario of Westbroook & George.

And even Westbrook's decision-making is far from perfect. The dude has only had 4 assists in all fourth quarters against Houston, so he's Mini Kobe basically.

D Blue987
04-25-2017, 08:50 PM
Do you remember this and all the articles as well?

One of the biggest reasons I’m told, that Kevin Durant may have the Lakers at the top of his list, is because the Lakers have been led to believe, by whom specifically I do not know, but the Lakers have been led to believe that it is a very good chance that the following year Russell Westbrook is coming.

Apples and oranges bro. lol. That rumor never made a bit of sense to begin with. Plus the Lakers are under new management and that makes a huge difference going forward. George is from LA and will likely hold a good bit of leverage as to where he ultimately plays or the Pacers get dumped with nothing in a year.

D Blue987
04-25-2017, 09:07 PM
You did a more intelligible spin on the possibility, thanks. I could be swayed by a smart offer, but I have not seen any convincing evidence that a guy like Westbrook is going to ditch OKC after the season he has had. I could see that changing if Sam Presti the GM doesn't get him some real help on the perimeter, for sure. If I'm Magic, maybe I wait and see if OKC makes the first move. Or I would trade for Westbrook rather than George, if it means letting go of the young talents (probably means losing more than just one or two). I think Ingram may become a suitable substitute for George, but OKC probably wants Ingram in that swap.

If the stars were to align and Westbrook declares his plans to join the Lakers, then maybe Magic should fire sale the youth project, but I don't see that happening, so I stand by what I said, unless this first round really winds up pissing off Westbrook. It's likely OKC will lose, so we'll see. But I still don't like the idea of trading D'Lo and Randle for PG-13. Still too much if you ask me. Like I said, if PG had a better series, I would feel differently.

But still a solid response. I just don't see Ingram being still around in that dream scenario of Westbroook & George.

And even Westbrook's decision-making is far from perfect. The dude has only had 4 assists in all fourth quarters against Houston, so he's Mini Kobe basically.

If the Lakers were to trade for both Westbrook and George it would certainly require them blowing up their youth which isn't happening. George to LA makes soo much sense for LA as there just isn't another situation available to the Lakers this offseason via trade as George has right now with Indiana for reasons I have already mentioned in this thread. Going after say Westbrook, or Butler would be expensive as there has been no indication that Westbrook would bolt for LA in free agency or consider them a viable destination at present assuming he turns down his 2019 player option and Butler is signed long term. In either scenario the Lakers would most certainly have to part with a lot of their young talent including possibly picks which they have so few of at present. If there is even a chance the Lakers have can land a star this offseason in a trade it will be George or bust imho. That is unless people still believe Carmelo is still someone worth building around...

mrblisterdundee
04-25-2017, 09:31 PM
CJ, Harkless (10 million, isn't bad with the new nba economy for a solid role player like him), Denver Pick and a future pick is a solid package in my view. Maybe I am overvaluing McCollum and Harkless?

That's good talent-wise if you include a couple picks, but it doesn't quite work financially. And why take the risk with George set to be an unrestricted free agent?

More-Than-Most
04-25-2017, 09:55 PM
Apples and oranges bro. lol. That rumor never made a bit of sense to begin with. Plus the Lakers are under new management and that makes a huge difference going forward. George is from LA and will likely hold a good bit of leverage as to where he ultimately plays or the Pacers get dumped with nothing in a year.

lol it didnt make sense because it doesnt fit the creteria that lakers/knicks can sign anyone because their the lakers and knicks... Its just not going to work that way anymore and nobody wants lakers/knicks to contend more than me outside of lakers and knicks fans but it gets old when the notion that reports come out that a guy wants to always go to these 2 teams and yet it never happens... Dwight rolled out and westy was def coming to the lakers as was durant and others and it never happened.... If this was 15 years ago when being in a big market was counter productive id agree but now big market tax and then taking less as a free agent kills any chances of it happening even half of the time... Now factor in where the knicks/lakers are and that lowers things even more drastically.

GREATNESS ONE
04-25-2017, 10:45 PM
:laugh2: Lakers & Knicks? Dafuq.... yes they make money as a franchise (rare) but that's about the only similarity both franchises have and let's be real, not even close....


Hell, if the Tics didn't win 8 rings in a row or 9 whatever in a 10 team league 40+ years ago.. no team would even hold the Lakers jock strap, especially the last 30 years.

Someone is going to get smart and realize the market and franchise is much bigger when you're winning... and when you win in LA (Lakers) you have a ton of endorsements, tv etc money pouring in....


Kobe is set for good, Magic is set for greatness, it's only a matter of time before someone else realizes the Lakers are open for business... with Jimbo out and Magic in, business looks good.

Mave1002
04-26-2017, 03:29 AM
#1: Celtics end up with pick #2
#2: Celtics call Bird and offers #2/Crowder and Smart for Indy's PG13 (both parties agree)
#3: Celtics sign UFA Blake Griffin
#4: Lakers win the lotto
#5: Lakers offer #1, Randle and Deng for Chicago's Jimmy Butler (both parties agree)
#6: Lakers offer #28, Moz and JC for BKN's Brook Lopez (both parties agree)
#7: Fast forward---PG13 becomes a UFA next summer, signs with the Lakers
#8: Fast forward---with PG13 leaving the Celtics, team signs UFA Gordon Hayward

Renewed Rivalry

Lopez/Zubac
Nance Jr./T.Robinson
PG13/Ingram
Butler/Brewer
Russell/Ennis

Horford/Olynyk
Griffin/Zeller
Hayward/Brown
Bradley/Jackson
IT/Rozier

Quinnsanity
04-26-2017, 07:52 AM
The bolded is wrong... because they have the Houston pick they can trade their own in 2017 if they keep it...

Septien rule interpretation by the league just means you can't trade CONSECUTIVE FUTURE 1st rounders (ie you must have a first round pick in a given year whether it is yours or someone elses).

all the lakers would have to do to trade THEIR 2019 pick is to acquire another 2019 first rounder

Ah you're right. Here's the relevant wording from Coon: "When dealing with protected picks, the Stepien rule is interpreted to mean that a team can't trade a pick if there is any chance at all that it will leave the team without a first round pick in consecutive future drafts." That feels like a loophole that should be closed though. Teams could just trade for less valuable picks to enable them to circumvent the rule designed to protect them from trading their own. If the Nets wanted to go on another insane shopping spree they could just go get some GSW and Cleveland picks to open up their own for trading. That's lame.

There are a bunch of Stepien Rule loopholes that should be closed. My interpretation would be "teams must not forfeit their own first round pick in consecutive years," preventing swap rights and the Lakers/Houston example. I'd also hold rookie trades to the same standard as FA trades, you shouldn't be able to make them prior to December 15th unless they're draft night swaps. That seems like what the rule was intended to be anyway.


I know that about the LAL pick, but it's going to take multiple picks. That means possible 2017 pick (after it's made) and 2020/21 + likely 2022/23 pick included. I doubt the Pacers would want to wait that long.

I'm not responding to the other two things because in both points it's kinda moot. Especially the cap hold stuff. Not only do you use them, but if someone signs for more that then they have to keep the cap space for the players they want to keep and renounce someone elses. Basically to keep so many of that you suggest they will loose someone. It's kinda naive IMO to think that they will keep everyone this offseason.

As for the Spurs thing.....completely different. Your talking about a team with a top 5 player at the time that tanked one season and got one of the better players ever to come along in the draft and got another top 5-10 talent in the league for a long time. That is such a unique situation that you can't compare or use for a blueprint for any other.

I'm not saying they keep everyone. I never said that. I'm saying they keep Durant, Curry and Iggy. Livingston is gone. West might retire. McGee probably gets money from someone. So no, they don't keep everyone. But they keep their four superstars and the best sixth man in the league. That still puts them miles ahead of the field, especially given that front office's track record when it comes to finding good bench dudes.


#1: Celtics end up with pick #2
#2: Celtics call Bird and offers #2/Crowder and Smart for Indy's PG13 (both parties agree)
#3: Celtics sign UFA Blake Griffin
#4: Lakers win the lotto
#5: Lakers offer #1, Randle and Deng for Chicago's Jimmy Butler (both parties agree)
#6: Lakers offer #28, Moz and JC for BKN's Brook Lopez (both parties agree)
#7: Fast forward---PG13 becomes a UFA next summer, signs with the Lakers
#8: Fast forward---with PG13 leaving the Celtics, team signs UFA Gordon Hayward

Renewed Rivalry

Lopez/Zubac
Nance Jr./T.Robinson
PG13/Ingram
Butler/Brewer
Russell/Ennis

Horford/Olynyk
Griffin/Zeller
Hayward/Brown
Bradley/Jackson
IT/Rozier

There are so many problems with this post:

- Celtics could not afford to trade for Paul George AND sign Blake Griffin to a max contract without shedding more salary (the easiest choice would be Tyler Zeller, but he wouldn't get them to max room alone here anyway).

- The Lakers don't have max cap space in this scenario to sign George. Brook's cap hold would be 150% of his 2017-18 salary as a free agent (so around $33 million, aka close to the max), Butler is making $19.8 million in 2018-19, Deng is making $18 million, so those three alone would take up over $70 million, making it impossible to pay George his max, and that's before you consider the rest of the roster.

- Gordon Hayward is a free agent in 2017. Not 2018. Is he going to sign a one year contract just so he can wait to replace Paul George in Boston?

- Avery Bradley and Isaiah Thomas are both 2018 free agents. Their cap holds go up to 150%, so even in this magic scenario where the Celts can fit both George and Griffin under the cap in 2017, they wouldn't have the cap space to replace a departed George in 2018.

- Olynyk isn't even under contract for next year. Most expect him to leave as a free agent.

Learn how the cap works.

LA4life24/8
04-26-2017, 12:14 PM
The lakers arent trading ingram and their top 3 (if they keep) for pg13. Pg13 wouldnt want that, if he really wants to be here he doesnt wanna have no one around him he'd be in a similar situation he's in now. He can just wait and walk to LA if he really wants to be there. And not many teams gonna trade much assets for him if they think he's gonna walk. I think all ya over rating the packages that will be offered to him knowing theirs a strong possibility its just a rental.

The only team that really worries me as a laker fan is the celtics. They can trade a solid package and still keep their core and get pg13 and then they COULD be serious contenders and if they happened to make it to the finals or come close to it pg13 might wanna stay their because obviously it presents him with a very goos chance of winning.

But thats of stingy ainge will actually give up his beloved preciouses assets lol.

TheDish87
04-26-2017, 12:16 PM
PG would be dumb to waste the rest of his prime with the Lakers, all he does is make them a borderline playoff team.

IndyRealist
04-26-2017, 01:08 PM
The lakers arent trading ingram and their top 3 (if they keep) for pg13. Pg13 wouldnt want that, if he really wants to be here he doesnt wanna have no one around him he'd be in a similar situation he's in now. He can just wait and walk to LA if he really wants to be there. And not many teams gonna trade much assets for him if they think he's gonna walk. I think all ya over rating the packages that will be offered to him knowing theirs a strong possibility its just a rental.

The only team that really worries me as a laker fan is the celtics. They can trade a solid package and still keep their core and get pg13 and then they COULD be serious contenders and if they happened to make it to the finals or come close to it pg13 might wanna stay their because obviously it presents him with a very goos chance of winning.

But thats of stingy ainge will actually give up his beloved preciouses assets lol.

If you don't trade for him, you can't offer more money or a better team than the Pacers can. If he's going to take less money, he's going to a contender. The Spurs will be able to offer him max, for instance.

LA4life24/8
04-26-2017, 01:47 PM
If you don't trade for him, you can't offer more money or a better team than the Pacers can. If he's going to take less money, he's going to a contender. The Spurs will be able to offer him max, for instance.

Yeah im not tryna say pg13 is coming to the lakers on his own im not delusional lol im just sayin LA turned down ingram+dlo for cousins and we all knlw how lakers covet the best bigs so id assume they'd refuse that kinda deal for pg13 as well esp on a rental.

Theyd prolly consider it if guarenteed resign from pg13 but still CONSIDER idk if they pull the trigger

More-Than-Most
04-26-2017, 05:57 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/-lakers-should-offer-pacers-brandon-ingram-3-pick-for-paul-george-464524.html


Its like I wrote the article right? Exactly what I said.. But yo... Clarkson/Randle or kevin ****ing love lol

tp13baby
04-26-2017, 06:22 PM
The lakers arent trading ingram and their top 3 (if they keep) for pg13. Pg13 wouldnt want that, if he really wants to be here he doesnt wanna have no one around him he'd be in a similar situation he's in now. He can just wait and walk to LA if he really wants to be there. And not many teams gonna trade much assets for him if they think he's gonna walk. I think all ya over rating the packages that will be offered to him knowing theirs a strong possibility its just a rental.

The only team that really worries me as a laker fan is the celtics. They can trade a solid package and still keep their core and get pg13 and then they COULD be serious contenders and if they happened to make it to the finals or come close to it pg13 might wanna stay their because obviously it presents him with a very goos chance of winning.

But thats of stingy ainge will actually give up his beloved preciouses assets lol.

Doesn't matter. Magic is insane when it comes to player control, kind of saw it with the Dodgers, I fully expect him to speed up the process with the Lakers. With Deng and Mozzy taking up that much space and being near worthless a lot of things need to go right.


PG would be dumb to waste the rest of his prime with the Lakers, all he does is make them a borderline playoff team.

They are arguably the worst team in the west again except for Sacremento next year.


http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/-lakers-should-offer-pacers-brandon-ingram-3-pick-for-paul-george-464524.html


Its like I wrote the article right? Exactly what I said.. But yo... Clarkson/Randle or kevin ****ing love lol

LA should make the Ingram and 3rd overall pick. Ingram struggled and that 3 pick seems most likely to be a PG. Cleveland would be stupid to trade Love for one of those two let alone both. Clarkson isn't good really.

GREATNESS ONE
04-26-2017, 09:06 PM
lololololol loving and embracing all the Lakers hate over the years, the hate is strong again this year.

Aaaaallllll good. We'll be back again and it's going to be better than ever this time around.

IKnowHoops
04-26-2017, 10:49 PM
lololololol loving and embracing all the Lakers hate over the years, the hate is strong again this year.

Aaaaallllll good. We'll be back again and it's going to be better than ever this time around.

It will never be as good as Kobe+Shaq. I assure you. It's all down hill.

GREATNESS ONE
04-26-2017, 11:53 PM
It will never be as good as Kobe+Shaq. I assure you. It's all down hill.

Lololol ok. It will
Never be as good as Magic+Captain or Kobe and the Tri-Towers.

It's going to happen again and the stars will align once again. Lakers baby. :)

TheDish87
04-27-2017, 08:59 AM
lololololol loving and embracing all the Lakers hate over the years, the hate is strong again this year.

Aaaaallllll good. We'll be back again and it's going to be better than ever this time around.

how is telling it like it is hate? you sound like your boy Rocco

GREATNESS ONE
04-27-2017, 12:11 PM
how is telling it like it is hate? you sound like your boy Rocco

Take a seat kiddo, you're on timeout.

Going into our forum and talking ish is equivalent to you hating on our team.


It's all good mijo, you will get it one day.

LA4life24/8
04-27-2017, 12:16 PM
Yall act like the lakers are never gonna win another chip. Id bet that lakers win a chip again before at least 3/4 of the nba teams win one lol. Maybe its not paul George that helps em but they will be good again just a matter of time. They are the yankees of bball.

And i would not trade BI+3rd for pg13. Wouldnt do it. If he really wants to be here he'll walk here and if not then so be it.

TheDish87
04-27-2017, 12:27 PM
Take a seat kiddo, you're on timeout.

Going into our forum and talking ish is equivalent to you hating on our team.


It's all good mijo, you will get it one day.

lol talking what ****? you cant just say oh well you know we were good once so we will be good again! youre a hater if you disagree!

grow the **** up

the reality is there is 1 all star caliber player on the Lakers in Ingram (who underachieved) and its faaaar from being an FA destination with the 2nd most losses over the last 4 years, not to mention the cap is messed up with the 2 worst deals in the league. Whats the cherry on top? If you lose your pick this year, you lose it yet again in 2019. So yea man, it looks like the Lakers are on the right path to stardom!!!!! **** those haters for not being optimistic for no reason!

TheDish87
04-27-2017, 12:27 PM
Yall act like the lakers are never gonna win another chip. Id bet that lakers win a chip again before at least 3/4 of the nba teams win one lol. Maybe its not paul George that helps em but they will be good again just a matter of time. They are the yankees of bball.

And i would not trade BI+3rd for pg13. Wouldnt do it. If he really wants to be here he'll walk here and if not then so be it.

why do you all have to be such huge homers? what exactly are you basing this on? lolololol

LA4life24/8
04-27-2017, 01:41 PM
why do you all have to be such huge homers? what exactly are you basing this on? lolololol

Im basing it off the fact that other than the top 8-10 teams in the league arent really that much closer to winning a chip than the lakers. The reality of the nba is that theres only a handful of teams each year that will realistically possibly win and everyone else is on the outside looking in. Eventually these cavs n warriors teams wont be good anymore and other teans will have a chance again and historically speaking the teams that tend to rise back up to the top are the celtics lakers pistons hell even the 76ers usually dont go more than a decade without being a serious contender.

Im just saying id bet like that the lakers would win one before the grizzlies or suns or clippers etc

If basing my opinion off of history makes me a homer than whatevs dude no biggie to me

TheDish87
04-27-2017, 03:17 PM
you are just guessing, hoping, etc plain and simple. youre history is irrelevant. you havent made a major addition in 4 years now and it flopped big time. since then no one worthwhile has even been seriously linked to LA with the exception of PG this year. You had to overpay guys like Deng and Mozgov on top of offering them more years just to get them to sign.

IndyRealist
04-27-2017, 03:37 PM
I don't understand why Lakers fans aren't just saying "we're under new management"

GREATNESS ONE
04-27-2017, 03:40 PM
Lolololololololololol hilarious.

warfelg
04-28-2017, 08:21 AM
I don't understand why Lakers fans aren't just saying "we're under new management"

Exactly.

And I'm going to be doubtful of Magic (who's stated predraft he's love a guy who turned out to bust), and a recent agent (so many teams are going to scream tampering when he signs big FAs) can manage a team well. In fact I'm a little shocked the NBA was so ok with someone that was still an agent so recently to become a GM.

LA4life24/8
04-28-2017, 12:15 PM
When was the last time philly won a chip? When was the last time philly was linked to a big free agent? Ill wait.

Our management was terrible and it might still be. And when you "bet" something it is usually a hope a wish, no one knows for sure either way duh.

What im sayin is you 76ers fans think you know but guess what your future is just as uncertain. Embiid is uncertain for the future. Simmons hasnt played a single game. And no one else on this team is gonna lead em to a chip.

You guys say lakers fans are homers and pretentious but thats exactly what you guys are being right now.

TheDish87
04-28-2017, 12:24 PM
our future is more certain than the Lakers while we have tons of flexibility to make the roster better through various options. you dont hear us thinking we can trade for stars without giving up serious value. We signed Brand that was our last big one, didnt really have cap room for years after that for anyone. We also had Crawford and Ginolbi seriously considering joining us last off-season. Maybe not major guys but high end and thats coming off a 10 win season.

Quinnsanity
04-28-2017, 12:32 PM
Exactly.

And I'm going to be doubtful of Magic (who's stated predraft he's love a guy who turned out to bust), and a recent agent (so many teams are going to scream tampering when he signs big FAs) can manage a team well. In fact I'm a little shocked the NBA was so ok with someone that was still an agent so recently to become a GM.

He's not the first. Arn Tellem recently became the president of the Pistons. Bob Myers went from agent to GM. It happens in baseball every now and then. There's a precedent for it.

LA4life24/8
04-28-2017, 01:27 PM
our future is more certain than the Lakers while we have tons of flexibility to make the roster better through various options. you dont hear us thinking we can trade for stars without giving up serious value. We signed Brand that was our last big one, didnt really have cap room for years after that for anyone. We also had Crawford and Ginolbi seriously considering joining us last off-season. Maybe not major guys but high end and thats coming off a 10 win season.

That is probably true in terms of philly having a more certain future but i listed philly as one of the teams that generally rise back to the top.

Its those middling teams who have either not been there or are generally not there that id bet the lakers to have a higher chance of winning before because they've never proved they could do it whether they are poorly ran havent ever signed a huge free agent, have lost huge free agents or whose owners/management over the years wont spend big to keep players/lineups around.

Maybe im just a homer but i believe in the laker franchise and esp more so now that we got rid of dipshit jim. Maybe magic and pelinka are the guys maybe not only time will tell.

I think free agents will give us meetings again though w those 2 at the helm.

Vinylman
05-01-2017, 10:38 AM
our future is more certain than the Lakers while we have tons of flexibility to make the roster better through various options. you dont hear us thinking we can trade for stars without giving up serious value. We signed Brand that was our last big one, didnt really have cap room for years after that for anyone. We also had Crawford and Ginolbi seriously considering joining us last off-season. Maybe not major guys but high end and thats coming off a 10 win season.

your problem is colangelo... you would be in much better shape right now if they had not of ran Hinkie off...

He would have got more for Noel and would already have turned Okafor into better assets...

Go back to when they hired colangelo... I told you guys you will regret him in the long run

TheDish87
05-01-2017, 10:58 AM
no argument. however we are still in fantastic shape. its not like any of us supported the hiring on BC but tot his point i wouldnt say its been regrettable.