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View Full Version : Bostons 0-2: Who is to blame?



JasonJohnHorn
04-19-2017, 08:19 PM
I'm not sure there is a person to blame, but people usually try to find somebody.

Who do you think think this falls on?

More-Than-Most
04-19-2017, 08:50 PM
2 people... IT and Ainge... People love to give IT a pass because he puts up points and defensive is irrelevent when it comes to basketball... The offense is built around IT and they cover up for him on Defense... Their team is flawed and Ainge should have seen it but wants to billy king everyone and rolled the dice now they are wasting a chance...

Defense/Defense/Defense... That is how you contend in the playoffs... Like I said people think I hate IT... I dont... I just watched a greater player who was just as flawed fall short year after year while he always got the pass because he needed more help... Who does that sound like now? The small guy who can score has nothing around him and when they lose its not his fault... IT is iverson 0.5 Worse of a defender but not the same offensive player equals you wont win with him.

GREATNESS ONE
04-19-2017, 09:05 PM
IT just lost his sister, he's probably still in much pain.... this has to be blamed on the Coach/Locker room. You got to Rally around a guy, use t as fire... where's the motivational speech? The finger should be pointed in multiple ways....


Ainge has to be kicking himself not pulling the trigger on a trade for Butler.

NYKnickFanatic
04-19-2017, 09:23 PM
I blame the Bulls for giving them that work.

nicnac
04-19-2017, 10:31 PM
rondo, reminding the fans of his greatness when focused

WaDe03
04-19-2017, 10:35 PM
I blame the Bulls for giving them that work.

That's what I was going to say lol.

If anyone's to blame it's Wade Jimmy Rondo and Lopez for being too damn good.

Vee-Rex
04-19-2017, 10:44 PM
I think Ainge was too passive at the deadline and it'll be harder to attract free agents now and they'd be guaranteed to win in the 1st round had they pulled the trigger.

IMO, two things need to happen to mitigate the missed opportunity to acquire Butler:

1. Enormous comeback to knock off the Bulls (unlikely).

2. Win the #1 overall pick in the lottery (unlikely).

We'll see how it goes.

AllBall
04-19-2017, 10:44 PM
I blame death.

zn23
04-19-2017, 10:49 PM
I think Ainge was too passive at the deadline and it'll be harder to attract free agents now and they'd be guaranteed to win in the 1st round had they pulled the trigger.

IMO, two things need to happen to mitigate the missed opportunity to acquire Butler:

1. Enormous comeback to knock off the Bulls (unlikely).

2. Win the #1 overall pick in the lottery (unlikely).

We'll see how it goes.

Totally agree with this. Ainge has no balls, and squandered a great opportunity to make the team better. I don't know what his obsession is with collecting draft picks. NBA draft picks are not the same value as NFL picks.

IT is a great player. Al Horford is NOT a number 2 option. He's a no. 3 at best at this stage in his career. The other players they have are just solid role players that you can't rely upon.

Bostonjorge
04-19-2017, 10:51 PM
Isiah will show his greatness when he goes into Chicago and gets both games back.

Scoots
04-19-2017, 11:17 PM
The Bulls

lol, please
04-19-2017, 11:54 PM
I blame the Bulls for giving them that work.

Basically this lol.

aman_13
04-20-2017, 12:12 AM
The Bulls

+1

More-Than-Most
04-20-2017, 01:06 AM
So how many years will we go this go around and blame the lack of suppose help around said small player who only scores? took fans like 15 seasons to realize Iverson was overrated and had help but never elevated the help like others have because of the style/lack of defense/Iso ****. Its just mind boggling ******** to me how people can excuse his defense and 1 dimensional skill set.

GREATNESS ONE
04-20-2017, 01:06 AM
Isiah will show his greatness when he goes into Chicago and gets both games back.

You know what's funny, your right 90% of the time.

JasonJohnHorn
04-20-2017, 09:33 AM
I put this on Aigne.

Brad Stevens is doing (with a drastically different style) what George Karl did every year in Denver: had an inherently flawed team that would see no success in the post-season win as many games as possible.

We all know that had Cleveland bothered playing hard all year they'd have 60 wins, but they let Love's injury be an excuse to lose. And Toronto hit a rough patch there for whatever reason, but Stevens had this Boston squad playing consistent ball and working hard all season.

However, as a GM, Ainge should know that a team that need a 5'9 dude to score 30 points a night is not going to win. Firstly, condolences to Thomas obviously. Secondly, kudos to him for achieving what he has been able to achieve this season. That said, through no fault of his own, he is 5'9. No matter how hard he works on D, his size makes him a liability. Teams will exploit that. Moreover, that size makes him easy to guard.


Ainge would have risked the chemistry as is it stood, but bringing in Butler would have certainly gutted the Bulls chances, and would have given the Celtics a proven franchise player who can score and play defense. Bringing in George might not have gutted the Bulls, but it would have made the Celtics. Either way, they win this series.

At the beginning of the season, had somebody said; Horford, Thomas, Bradley, Crowder vs. Butler, Wade, Rondo and Lopez: who you got? I can't imagine too many people pick that Boston line up. They've played well all season, but they are inherently flawed.


This, to me, is all on Ainge. I realize he was thinking about the future, and simply didn't think this team had what it took to win this year, but Stevens has done such a good job, while the Cavs and Raptors were underachieving, that that a team that was only a 50-win team in a weak east, manage a couple extra wins that happened to earn them the top seed, and with that comes the expectation to win in the post season.

At the beginning of the year, I think most Boston fans would have been happy with a first-round win, and mildly disappointed if they didn't get it. Stevens excelled with this roster and it raised expectation, and Ainge simply didn't work hard enough to give him the tools he needed to compete in the playoffs.


Ainge planned to reload in free agency and the draft. That shot any chances of success in the post season. Now Boston fans will have to wait until next year to find out if that approach paid off. And it may very well pay off. With cap space (I believe they have a fair bit) and draft picks, they could really lay the foundation for a winning team in this offseason. If they don't, then Ainge just blew a chance to get on the big stage.

TheDish87
04-20-2017, 09:43 AM
the series isnt even over. what if they win in it, does it matter why they ever went down 0-2 then?

bloomis1307
04-20-2017, 10:23 AM
I'll call out a couple of things

1st off what the hell is brad stevens doing with these lineups....Game 1 he gave Gerald Green 6 minutes last game James young got minutes. This is the playoffs, what ever happened to an 8 man rotation. Give your best players minutes to succeed.

Celtics for a while now live and die by the jump shot....lately its been more the latter than the former. Avery Bradly has been abysmal going 10/28 the first two games. 43 and 46 FG% in games 1 and 2 won't cut it...

1st game you could attribute the loss to offensive rebounds (chi+9) and 2nd game the bulls were hot efficiency wise 51% from the field and 40% from deep

colinskik
04-20-2017, 10:32 AM
Ainge

WaDe03
04-20-2017, 10:37 AM
I'll call out a couple of things

1st off what the hell is brad stevens doing with these lineups....Game 1 he gave Gerald Green 6 minutes last game James young got minutes. This is the playoffs, what ever happened to an 8 man rotation. Give your best players minutes to succeed.

Celtics for a while now live and die by the jump shot....lately its been more the latter than the former. Avery Bradly has been abysmal going 10/28 the first two games. 43 and 46 FG% in games 1 and 2 won't cut it...

1st game you could attribute the loss to offensive rebounds (chi+9) and 2nd game the bulls were hot efficiency wise 51% from the field and 40% from deep

James Young only played in garbage time.

SoxPatsCeltsBs
04-20-2017, 10:42 AM
The only thing Ainge should've done at the deadline was get a legit rebounder. He was 100% right in not trading the Brooklyn picks. The Celtics don't NEED to win this year. Their future is set. No matter what happens this season the Celtics will be stronger for the seasons to follow.

Vee-Rex
04-20-2017, 10:52 AM
The only thing Ainge should've done at the deadline was get a legit rebounder. He was 100% right in not trading the Brooklyn picks. The Celtics don't NEED to win this year. Their future is set. No matter what happens this season the Celtics will be stronger for the seasons to follow.

A rebounder would've been tremendous.

For sure he should've done SOMETHING. The only problem I see with snagging a rebounder is that there weren't really that many people available.

Also - the bolded is not necessarily true. The assets the Celtics have are completely reliant on striking gold in the draft. The 2018 BRK pick may not be as good as the 2017 BRK pick and I don't know if that draft will be as strong. The rest of their assets are more suited for acquiring quality players (Memphis/LAC 1st rounders) but not necessarily all-stars or superstars (unless it is an overwhelming amount for the star - something Ainge has shown he's unwilling to do).

TLDR: To sum it up, the Celtics future is promising and could be great - but it's not guaranteed to be.

Kyben36
04-20-2017, 10:56 AM
Lack of bigs to stop lopez, and everyone not named issiah thomas on offense. Issiah is the only one creating. And nobody else is doing anything but being spot up jump shooters.

I mean, i cant tell you how many times guy like crowder have had drives to the basket but pull out and regroup when a guy begins to cut him off. Instead of making a move to get passed the defender coming over.

LongIslandIcedZ
04-20-2017, 10:58 AM
I understand not mortgaging your future at the expense of the present, but Jimmy Butler is 27. Its not like you're trading for Melo or something. Trading for Butler is good for your future.

Noel is 23
Cousins is 26
Paul George is 26

These are players who are in their prime, or about to enter it. Not to mention, Cousins and Noel probably could have been had without even getting rid of a Brooklyn Pick (at the very least, it could have been protected).

Don't get me wrong, the path the Celtics are taking now could easily work out. They could draft superstars and live happily ever after. But I absolutely think there is merit to opening up the discussion, that they probably should have made a move for one of the aforementioned players.

C-ross12
04-20-2017, 11:21 AM
Ainge should have added a C who could defend and rebound at the deadline. Thats on him. George Paul wasn't really available from what we've read. I've read a wide range of what it would take to acquire Butler, but it probably would have gutted our assets, and rightfully so.

Stevens should have this team playing better. In my mind they overachieved to get to the one seed. If you would have asked I would have told you that I'm not sure they could beat Toronto or the Wizards in the playoffs, and I certainly wouldn't like their chances against Cleveland. But they shouldn't be down 0-2 to the Bulls. Stevens has to take some accountability for that.

The way this team is constructed.. It has holes. We're quite athletic defensively guarding wings. We have some skilled big mean who can pass (Horford) and shoot (Olynyk). Crowder and Bradley are certainly quality NBA starters. We can't rebound, we have no potent scorers outside of IT, and IT is a defensive liability. Our weaknesses have been exposed big time this series. How many offensive rebounds have we seen? How many times have we seen Rondo abuse IT? Has anyone stepped up to score? Eh. I figured the Wizards would really expose us, especially Wall and Gortat. But it seems the Bulls with Lopez and Rondo beat them to the punch.

(EDIT: I basically think their is plenty of blame to go around.

Green_Monster
04-20-2017, 11:22 AM
The Bulls

This. They've played very well, the Celtics have played bad. They're getting outplayed, it's pretty simple.

Ainge didn't make a trade because he wants an actual shot at an NBA championship. Not a "we'll get to the playoffs every year but never be good enough to win" team.

ewing
04-20-2017, 12:09 PM
I blame the Bulls for giving them that work.

^^^

mrblisterdundee
04-20-2017, 12:38 PM
It's more management's fault. By not pulling the trigger and getting another star, they basically admitted that Boston's not ready to enter contention mode yet. LeBron is still too good. The Warriors are still too good.
They're willing to stand pat and see what their egalitarian collection of smart role players can do in the playoffs before taking advantage of another high lottery pick, which is probably the smart move. Even if they were clicking, LeBron would still crush them, if not Giannis.
I don't think we'll see Boston contending with Thomas and Horford, and possibly not even with guys like Crowder and Bradley, although they're young and two-way enough to bridge to the next era. Boston's contention period will come with guys like Brown, Smart and their new draft picks.

ewing
04-20-2017, 12:51 PM
2 people... IT and Ainge... People love to give IT a pass because he puts up points and defensive is irrelevent when it comes to basketball... The offense is built around IT and they cover up for him on Defense... Their team is flawed and Ainge should have seen it but wants to billy king everyone and rolled the dice now they are wasting a chance...

Defense/Defense/Defense... That is how you contend in the playoffs... Like I said people think I hate IT... I dont... I just watched a greater player who was just as flawed fall short year after year while he always got the pass because he needed more help... Who does that sound like now? The small guy who can score has nothing around him and when they lose its not his fault... IT is iverson 0.5 Worse of a defender but not the same offensive player equals you wont win with him.

The reason the Sixers couldn't win with AI is that they weren't good enough. They often overachieved. I think Russ this year is a better comparison to AI with the Sixers. AI was a flawed ball player though and he limited other offensive talent b/c he was so ball dominate- see his time with the nuggets. IT is no where near as ball dominate as AI was and your continued assertion that they cant be a good defensive team with him on the floor is just false. they were one of the better defensive teams in the league just last year. anyway, IT was net negative in game 2. He did not play well on either end. So if we are going to points fingers he should get one.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
04-20-2017, 01:02 PM
I'm not really sure if anyone is to blame. It's pretty obvious that this team kind of just fell into the one seed. Stevens got the team to overachieve and the regular season, and Ainge didn't believe that this team was good enough to mortgage future picks, plus two of the teams top five players, for Butler or George. They could have a least tried to trade for PJ Tucker or Andrew Bogut at the deadline, but that wouldn't have made much of a difference.

Also doesn't help that the trio of Rondo-Wade-Butler decided to finally work now too lol.

WaDe03
04-20-2017, 01:08 PM
The Bulls just completely bullied the Celtics in game 2.

europagnpilgrim
04-20-2017, 01:40 PM
2 people... IT and Ainge... People love to give IT a pass because he puts up points and defensive is irrelevent when it comes to basketball... The offense is built around IT and they cover up for him on Defense... Their team is flawed and Ainge should have seen it but wants to billy king everyone and rolled the dice now they are wasting a chance...

Defense/Defense/Defense... That is how you contend in the playoffs... Like I said people think I hate IT... I dont... I just watched a greater player who was just as flawed fall short year after year while he always got the pass because he needed more help... Who does that sound like now? The small guy who can score has nothing around him and when they lose its not his fault... IT is iverson 0.5 Worse of a defender but not the same offensive player equals you wont win with him.

At least Iverson led the league in steals 3 straight years, I don't want to hear about him gambling and other jibberish because he led the Big East in college in steals and it won him back to back DPOY, I think his 10 steals still stand as playoff record but I could be wrong

Horford alone averages more points for career than Mckie/Snow combined career averages if I am not mistaken, only way to compare IT to AI is the height and the odds they had to over come and that still really isn't comparable unless you feel facing a prison stint(HS bowling brawl) is equal to being a 2nd round pick in the nba draft, IT had Cousins I think over in Sacramento which a young dangerous AI never had that type of a talented big to play with, its just hard to be a number one option at that small of size, which is why AI is looked at by his peers and others as pound for pound the greatest to ever play

you are reaching for straws but I respect your willingness

GoferKing_
04-20-2017, 02:29 PM
Ainge for not traiding for Cousins.

Vinylman
04-20-2017, 03:22 PM
People blaming ainge are way to short sighted...

he is playing the long game believing he can pick up a top talent in the FA market this summer while still having the assets he needs to trade for a top guy if he doesn't get one in FA...

The best of both worlds will be to get a guy in FA and then trade the pick and assets for another guy.

This is driven by how the NBA is ****ing stupid and doesn't have FA before the draft like the NFL... NBA exec's have a much more difficult process because of this than their counterparts in the NFL...

Wouldn't it be easy for a GM to know what to do in the draft if FA had already occurred... it would also make the draft much more exciting because there would be more wheeling and dealing like in the NFL


As for the original question... who cares... they weren't gonna win anything anyway and Chicago is easily one of the best 8 seeds in a long time.

Dade County
04-20-2017, 03:45 PM
Isiah will show his greatness when he goes into Chicago and gets both games back.

This has a likely chance of happening. For entertainment reason though.

it would be a big story and more eyeballs will watch game 5 & 6.

colinskik
04-20-2017, 03:45 PM
The only thing Ainge should've done at the deadline was get a legit rebounder. He was 100% right in not trading the Brooklyn picks. The Celtics don't NEED to win this year. Their future is set. No matter what happens this season the Celtics will be stronger for the seasons to follow.

I'd argue that adding an all star talent like Butler or PG would've made them a much stronger team going forward. Either of those guys would've instantly been the best player on the team. IT is a very good talent, but I'm of the opinion that this year is going to be his ceiling.

Plus, they already have a glut of guards and now they're likely going to draft another? (If they end up with a top 3 pick and draft BPA, it will almost certainly be a guard.) Ainge overplayed his hand at the deadline. There's still a great opportunity for him to make strong moves in the offseason (trade IT?), but i believe any #1 seed team should be focused on making a true run when they have the change. The future is still bright for them, but it's not set it stone. Anything could happen.

Kyben36
04-20-2017, 03:46 PM
people blaming ainge are way to short sighted...

He is playing the long game believing he can pick up a top talent in the fa market this summer while still having the assets he needs to trade for a top guy if he doesn't get one in fa...

The best of both worlds will be to get a guy in fa and then trade the pick and assets for another guy.

This is driven by how the nba is ****ing stupid and doesn't have fa before the draft like the nfl... Nba exec's have a much more difficult process because of this than their counterparts in the nfl...

Wouldn't it be easy for a gm to know what to do in the draft if fa had already occurred... It would also make the draft much more exciting because there would be more wheeling and dealing like in the nfl


as for the original question... Who cares... They weren't gonna win anything anyway and chicago is easily one of the best 8 seeds in a long time.

you can say that, but they had the same opportunity last offseason, to me, if they got horford, w/ jimmy (via trade but they lowballed us, like they have with everyone) durrant would have gone there no questions asked.

I think similarly, you cant expect them to get a fa, when they fail like they have, they are not exactly an apealing option when a team crushes them. They really needed to go all in, instead, they are bankin long term on guys like brown, and 1st round picks that are question marks.

The problem is. Issiah is gonna walk at some point, he will want more money than they will be willing to give him. And same with horford, just being out of prime.

If they wanted to compete now, they have to trade their picks for a star, which can intice a fa. But instead, they want to keep their picks, while trading for a star, and lure a star, which just isnt gonna happen.

Kyben36
04-20-2017, 03:48 PM
Not sure how boston thinks they are gonna come back from this, i mean, your best player is not even with your team to game plan. I dont blame him for not being, but its not a good thing to have if you think your gonna make major changes to get better. (which they need to)

AntiG
04-20-2017, 03:49 PM
this is on Ainge for passing on Cousins when he was there for the taking on the cheap.

colinskik
04-20-2017, 03:51 PM
People blaming ainge are way to short sighted...

he is playing the long game believing he can pick up a top talent in the FA market this summer while still having the assets he needs to trade for a top guy if he doesn't get one in FA...

The best of both worlds will be to get a guy in FA and then trade the pick and assets for another guy.

This is driven by how the NBA is ****ing stupid and doesn't have FA before the draft like the NFL... NBA exec's have a much more difficult process because of this than their counterparts in the NFL...

Wouldn't it be easy for a GM to know what to do in the draft if FA had already occurred... it would also make the draft much more exciting because there would be more wheeling and dealing like in the NFL


As for the original question... who cares... they weren't gonna win anything anyway and Chicago is easily one of the best 8 seeds in a long time.

That's all hypotheticals. The facts are that Ainge had an opportunity to nab one of several young, all star talents during a year when the team earned a #1 seed.

BUt the more I think about it, i think the true blame should be shouldered by the NBA for allowing these super teams to exist. Ainge's thinking is that the C's can't beat the Cavs or W's because they are absolutely loaded. If the talent were spread out more fairly among teams it wouldn't force #1 seeds to play it safe.

mrblisterdundee
04-20-2017, 04:22 PM
That's all hypotheticals. The facts are that Ainge had an opportunity to nab one of several young, all star talents during a year when the team earned a #1 seed.

BUt the more I think about it, i think the true blame should be shouldered by the NBA for allowing these super teams to exist. Ainge's thinking is that the C's can't beat the Cavs or W's because they are absolutely loaded. If the talent were spread out more fairly among teams it wouldn't force #1 seeds to play it safe.

Good point. The Celtics aren't even trying to win now, and with good reason. LeBron and the Warriors are too good. It'd be great if the league had such parity that every playoff team acted like they have a shot not that it's ever going to happen.

Vee-Rex
04-20-2017, 04:44 PM
this is on Ainge for passing on Cousins when he was there for the taking on the cheap.

An unbiased opinion is so refreshing.

We'll see how easily the Celtics acquire free agents. I don't think George will be available for trade and certainly not for the assets Butler was - and I bet Chicago asks for more for Butler if they ace Boston in the 1st round (if they're even willing to trade him in that scenario).

As far as free agents go - the only realistic top options seem to be Blake Griffin and Gordon Hayward. It's just not that great of a list since the biggest names like Durant, Curry, and Paul won't be joining the Celtics.

Vee-Rex
04-20-2017, 04:46 PM
https://twitter.com/PerSources/status/854512996915310598

As long as they keep Olynyk they'll be fine, though. Just send him to take out whoever you want. :laugh2:

colinskik
04-20-2017, 04:48 PM
Good point. The Celtics aren't even trying to win now, and with good reason. LeBron and the Warriors are too good. It'd be great if the league had such parity that every playoff team acted like they have a shot not that it's ever going to happen.

The NBA should be embarrassed that a Warriors/Cavs final is all but assured. I'm not even watching the W's in the playoffs because it's no fun when you know the outcome beforehand.

The larger issue is teams being able to stack players, as well as the waiver system. I was watching a bit of the Cavs game the other day, and I swear I saw an entire Knicks starting lineup on their bench. It's utterly ridiculous.

ewing
04-20-2017, 09:51 PM
Ainge should have added a C who could defend and rebound at the deadline. Thats on him. George Paul wasn't really available from what we've read. I've read a wide range of what it would take to acquire Butler, but it probably would have gutted our assets, and rightfully so.

Stevens should have this team playing better. In my mind they overachieved to get to the one seed. If you would have asked I would have told you that I'm not sure they could beat Toronto or the Wizards in the playoffs, and I certainly wouldn't like their chances against Cleveland. But they shouldn't be down 0-2 to the Bulls. Stevens has to take some accountability for that.

The way this team is constructed.. It has holes. We're quite athletic defensively guarding wings. We have some skilled big mean who can pass (Horford) and shoot (Olynyk). Crowder and Bradley are certainly quality NBA starters. We can't rebound, we have no potent scorers outside of IT, and IT is a defensive liability. Our weaknesses have been exposed big time this series. How many offensive rebounds have we seen? How many times have we seen Rondo abuse IT? Has anyone stepped up to score? Eh. I figured the Wizards would really expose us, especially Wall and Gortat. But it seems the Bulls with Lopez and Rondo beat them to the punch.

(EDIT: I basically think their is plenty of blame to go around.

The one thing I don't get it why Boston hasn't really pushed the ball a lot. I know they have to commit everyone to the defensive glass but still they need to push


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vinylman
04-21-2017, 11:47 AM
you can say that, but they had the same opportunity last offseason, to me, if they got horford, w/ jimmy (via trade but they lowballed us, like they have with everyone) durrant would have gone there no questions asked.

I think similarly, you cant expect them to get a fa, when they fail like they have, they are not exactly an apealing option when a team crushes them. They really needed to go all in, instead, they are bankin long term on guys like brown, and 1st round picks that are question marks.

The problem is. Issiah is gonna walk at some point, he will want more money than they will be willing to give him. And same with horford, just being out of prime.

If they wanted to compete now, they have to trade their picks for a star, which can intice a fa. But instead, they want to keep their picks, while trading for a star, and lure a star, which just isnt gonna happen.

The bolded are absurd

Durant wasn't going anywhere but GS...

Ainge knows they aren't competing and why would he give up a ransom for PG when he doesn't know if he will re-sign... as for butler... who knows what the bulls wanted... the assumption that boston wouldn't give up the required pieces AT THE DEADLINE is pure speculation

Again, most GM's now know through player agents on whether they have a shot at a guy in FA...

I am sure Ainge already knows who he will be able to sign this offseason...

Patience and solid cap management by Ainge have the Celtics in the drivers seat

colinskik
04-21-2017, 12:33 PM
The bolded are absurd

Durant wasn't going anywhere but GS...

Ainge knows they aren't competing and why would he give up a ransom for PG when he doesn't know if he will re-sign... as for butler... who knows what the bulls wanted... the assumption that boston wouldn't give up the required pieces AT THE DEADLINE is pure speculation

Again, most GM's now know through player agents on whether they have a shot at a guy in FA...

I am sure Ainge already knows who he will be able to sign this offseason...

Patience and solid cap management by Ainge have the Celtics in the drivers seat

Not so fast, pal. They're def not in the driver's seat these playoffs, and we'll see how the offseason goes for them.

heat3X
04-21-2017, 09:06 PM
Boston is so easy to fix if they trade the right guys for either George or Butler. IT, Smart, and maybe the 2018 nets pick are the assets they need to dangle to really be a contender. IT being included would afford them the opportunity to have to give up less, Smart is considered an asset and he is good but he cant shoot so his value to them is limited, and the 2018 nets pick should also be really high so that should be a quality asset and give them the ability to get one of those guys. IF they have to give up Crowder too they should jump at the opportunity if they can keep Bradley, Brown, and the 2017 nets pick. If they get one of the top 2 picks they should offer the Pacers or Bulls IT, Smart and the 2018 nets pick for George or maybe Butler (much more unlkely) and try to strong arm the Pacers into trading george out of fear that they will lose him next year for nothing.

Bradley is a free agent after next year and will get paid huge money but he is worth it. Elite defender and 40% 3 pt shooter is not something you should trade. Jaylen brown is going to be at the very least a very good player and really does have star potential. Do not include him on any offer. He shot close to 50% from the field and around 37% from 3 after the break and he is cost controlled for quite a few years, so he should not be included.

IT is a star and has a lot of value to other teams in a trade, but he is an UFA after next year and is not as good as his reputation. Great offensively but undersized and terrible defensively and can be neutralized to an extent in playoff action. But he has huge value in a trade because he has a small contract for next year and is a star offensively. Smart is a great defender and a winner, but is a RFA after next year and cant shoot so if im the Celtics i try to capitalize on his value after this year before he gets a contract he is not worth after next season in restricted free agency. If im the celtics i make it a requirement that the 2018 nets pick is up for grabs but the 2017 pick is unavailable. Smart, IT, Crowder, and the 2018 pick and a combination of that is good enough to get one of those stars, particularly George who is a FA after next year and the pacers might be scared of losing for nothing. what else are they gonna get around the league that gives them a star type player, a good young player in Smart, a low cost controlled guy in Crowder who isnt a star but is very good, and a high lottery pick in the nets pick.

If you do that, you have a skeleton roster of this if you get a top 2 pick:

Ball or Fultz($5)
Bradley($8.8)
George (or Butler) ($19)/ Jaylen Brown ($4.9)/

Horford (27.7)


That is a great start and they would have still max money to go and get another guy and then fill out the roster. You have 2 cost controlled potential star rookie deal guys in Ball/Fultz and Brown. A superstar in George (or Butler). A cornerstone steady veteran leader at a scarce position in Horford. And an elite perimeter d and great 3 pt shooter in Bradley. You go and get another max type player or fill out the roster with big men and depth and you have a team that can challenge Cleveland and is sustainable long term. That is how you beat cleveland. To me, the key for them is utilizing IT's rise in stardom relative to his actual production, especially defensively, without giving up the nets pick this year, and getting a superstar in George or Butler while also keeping the Nets pick this year. That is easily possible and something that would make them a contender next year and for the foreseeable future.

If you release Zeller and his non-guaranteed 8 million for next year and those are the only guys on the roster + Roziers minimal deal for like 1.5 million. That is only 65.4 million in salary for next year. With a salary cap of around 103 million for next year, that is a contending team with another 35+ million to spend. If you get a guy like Ibaka for like 20-25 million for rebounding and a stretch 4 and inside defense and then sign quality veteran depth or maybe another variation thereof, i'd easily take that over the current cavs team, obviously because we dont know what they will do with their roster for next year.

Vinylman
04-22-2017, 05:33 AM
Not so fast, pal. They're def not in the driver's seat these playoffs, and we'll see how the offseason goes for them.

OMFG... who the hell is talking about this postseason?

they don't give a **** about this year because they know they can't get by both Cleveland and GS

Ainge and the Celtics are in their current position because they duped another idiot GM who didn't understand the competitive dynamic of the NBA...

PAOboston
04-22-2017, 07:31 AM
I'd argue that adding an all star talent like Butler or PG would've made them a much stronger team going forward. Either of those guys would've instantly been the best player on the team. IT is a very good talent, but I'm of the opinion that this year is going to be his ceiling.

Plus, they already have a glut of guards and now they're likely going to draft another? (If they end up with a top 3 pick and draft BPA, it will almost certainly be a guard.) Ainge overplayed his hand at the deadline. There's still a great opportunity for him to make strong moves in the offseason (trade IT?), but i believe any #1 seed team should be focused on making a true run when they have the change. The future is still bright for them, but it's not set it stone. Anything could happen.

Drafting a guard isn't that crazy in this draft. IT, Smart, Bradley are all FA after next season. I would say at least one of those guys isn't coming back. So drafting someone like Fultz for example (if they get a top pick) makes sense.

Vee-Rex
04-22-2017, 10:09 AM
Word is that if Chicago moves onto the 2nd round, GarPax won't look to trade him and instead will want to build around him.

Rondo's injury may have saved Ainge some face if they can come back and win. His defense and offense has been invaluable so far this first round.

TheDish87
04-24-2017, 09:08 AM
remember when the bulls were up 2-0? this is prob over in 6 now

ewing
04-24-2017, 09:16 AM
i blamed MTM