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View Full Version : Is Melo destined for the Heat this offseason?



heat3X
04-13-2017, 04:38 PM
Just posted in the heat forum, but want to get your thoughts on why I think Melo might be destined for Miami.

First, Pat always thinks big. Carmelo is still a great player, albeit he has lost a step. This team needs to make its move for the future this year, because Tyler Johnson's contract has his poison pill come into effect after next year. That makes this offseason the key for the next few years.

Second, we saw this year that the Heat think they can take guys and whip them into shape and have them play the way they want them to play within the heat's culture. Carmelo taking this seriously and coming into shape and for the first time in his career really focusing on a team with a culture and an organizational plan can improve his career.

Third, Gordon Hayward is a good player, but he is not worth the max, same with whatever Dion Waiters is going to get. Gordon Hayward is a nice player, but he will never be a number one option, and he isnt the pure scorer this team needs, which Carmelo is. Additionally, Carmelo is under contract for next season at a reasonable 26 million for what he brings, whereas Hayward is likely to command over 30 million for his new max under the new CBA. Also, on top of that, Hayward would likely need to be signed to a max 5 year deal, and Carmelo is only under contract for next year, with an ETO that he can exercise for the following year at 27 million. If faced with the choice of trying to resurrect Carmelo for 1-2 years at 25-28 million or signing Dion Waiters for 4-5 years at around 15 million and Hayward at over 30 million, I think Carmelo is not only the safer choice to live up to his contract, but his contract would be the shortest length of time if it doesnt work out.

Fourth, Carmelo is in complete control of his future because the Knicks are a horribly run franchise, and because of this we can get a superstar talent for pennies on the dollar. The Knicks gave him a no trade clause for no reason, and because of this, have no negotiating leverage in a trade. Not to mention, given their recent activity and the way they've gone about treating him, it seems like they are going to just try to get rid of him and build around Porzingis and their pick this year for the future. So, if we offered something like McRoberts salary, which expires after next year and is just 6 million and our first round pick at pick 14, that is most likely going to be the best offer they can get from a team that Carmelo will accept a trade to, and they would love to add another lottery pick on top of their existing lottery pick to continue their rebuild/overhaul.

If the Heat re-sign James Johnson at 12 million starting salary for next year, which is reasonable, re-sign Babbitt whose cap hit will be 1.3 million regardless of his salary, and let Willie Reed go and sign a vet for the minimum after we get Carmelo which will be very likely possible considering what we did last season, we could have a great team for next year while also not signing a player to the ridiculous max of 34 million who is good, but not nearly a superstar.

Look at this depth chart if the Knicks get pressured into taking that McRoberts and pick 14 for Melo due to the lack of leverage they have.

Dragic/Tyler Johnson
Richardson/McGruder/Ellington
Melo/Winslow/White
James Johnson/Babbitt
Whiteside

That is an incredible team and i think a contender for the east along with the top teams. That team has playmaking in Dragic and Melo, size and rim defense in Johnson and Whiteside, a go to scorer which we desperately lacked last year in Melo and to an extent Dragic, youth in all of our young guys, perimeter defense in McGruder, Winslow coming back, Richardson, James Johnson, Tyler Johnson, and tons of shooting.

I think this is the way we are going to try to go first if it is at all possible and I would love that team for next season. Say what you want about Melo, but he is a first ballot hall of famer who, while past his prime, is still a go to scorer and with the culture of this team I think would have no problem buying in and getting into shape and playing Miami Heat defense. And that is a better option than spending resources deep into the future in a guy like Hayward who isnt a number 1 option.

Thoughts? Who else has assets to offer the Knicks while also being a place Melo would waive his no trade for?

Quinnsanity
04-13-2017, 04:46 PM
I doubt Melo wants to play for Miami. He'll only leave the Knicks for a true contender. The Heat aren't one.

kdspurman
04-13-2017, 04:52 PM
I doubt Melo wants to play for Miami. He'll only leave the Knicks for a true contender. The Heat aren't one.

Agreed. If his boys were still there it would obviously be different. But not for this Heat team

heat3X
04-13-2017, 04:54 PM
I doubt Melo wants to play for Miami. He'll only leave the Knicks for a true contender. The Heat aren't one.

that depth chart is 100% a contender. the heat won 30 of 41 games in the second half when healthy this year, and lost many key games because of their lack of a go to option down the stretch of games.

In what world is
Dragic/Tyler Johnson
Richardson/McGruder/Ellington
Melo/Winslow/White
James Johnson/Babbitt
Whiteside

with veterans likely willing to come to play for the minimum not a contender? The team played at a 60 win pace in the second half of the year, that team is certainly a contender, especially in the east, and it is more of a contender than any other team he is going to accept a trade to.

KnicksorBust
04-13-2017, 04:56 PM
I doubt Melo wants to play for Miami. He'll only leave the Knicks for a true contender. The Heat aren't one.

Would he go to Chicago?

WaDe03
04-13-2017, 04:56 PM
If so they'll probably be trying to bring me and the GOAT back.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-13-2017, 05:03 PM
Heat say no thanks.

Heediot
04-13-2017, 05:07 PM
He needs to go on a team that he can accept a lesser role.

WaDe03
04-13-2017, 05:08 PM
Would he go to Chicago?

I'll be surprised if we don't hear that in the works. They may view getting Melo at PF with 2 years left on his contract is better than trying to make Griffin, Millsap, Ibaka, etc.

Kyben36
04-13-2017, 05:11 PM
I think the bulls will also be in play, trade rondo whos contract is almost all non guarunteed and filler for him. I dont like it personally but could surely see it hapening.

WaDe03
04-13-2017, 05:12 PM
I think the bulls will also be in play, trade rondo whos contract is almost all non guarunteed and filler for him. I dont like it personally but could surely see it hapening.

Could be a quick come up if they get creative this summer.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 05:13 PM
I think the bulls will also be in play, trade rondo whos contract is almost all non guarunteed and filler for him. I dont like it personally but could surely see it hapening.

I think the Bulls are going in the opposite direction. They will be out of the playoffs in 5, Wade is going to go to a contender in the offseason, and I think they will end up rebuilding and maybe giving Butler to the Celtics.

WaDe03
04-13-2017, 05:14 PM
Another guy on a 2 year deal they may prefer over giving the guys I mentioned the max is Brook Lopez. They want a 1st and 2nd for him and he's a legit stretch 5. Wouldn't surprise me if they give him a look. They should go over the cap to retain Niko at the end of free agency regardless.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 05:14 PM
Plus the heat can offer another lottery pick at 14 and only a 6 million salary for next year in Mcroberts allowing them to get a higher first round pick and cut a **** ton of salary and start building around Porzingis and their first rounders. Plus the Knicks have no leverage.

And to the guy who said the heat say no thanks, wtf are you smoking?

uprightciti
04-13-2017, 05:21 PM
Melo's Options:

1. Knicks
2. Clippers (Cp3)
3. Cavs (Lebron, Shump, JR)
4. Bulls (D-Wade)

WaDe03
04-13-2017, 05:24 PM
Melo's Options:

1. Knicks
2. Clippers (Cp3)
3. Cavs (Lebron, Shump, JR)
4. Bulls (D-Wade)

Yep, if he leaves it'll be to one of those 3 teams unless he has plans to get one of them to another team with him. CP3 and Wade are free agents this summer.

Big Zo
04-13-2017, 05:26 PM
Never been a fan of Melo. A core of Melo, Whiteside, Waiters, and Dragic wouldn't be the worst in the world, though.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-13-2017, 05:27 PM
@heat3X What are you smoking buddy. Lmao.

Melo is literally the reason why Knicks have been so putrid the past few years. He's got a monster contract, plays no defense and would certainly not fit into the Heat culture.

Now if you're talking moving Bosh's nightmare of a contract then I'll deal but other then that thanks but no thanks.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 05:38 PM
@heat3X What are you smoking buddy. Lmao.

Melo is literally the reason why Knicks have been so putrid the past few years. He's got a monster contract, plays no defense and would certainly not fit into the Heat culture.

Now if you're talking moving Bosh's nightmare of a contract then I'll deal but other then that thanks but no thanks.

That last sentence kind of proves that you dont know what you are talking about. Bosh's deal will be extinct after this year because he hasnt played in a year and wont get cleared by any doctor to play, so he still gets his money but because insurance covers it it goes off the heats salary cap books.

Melo has not been great with the knicks, but he also has been a part of the single most dysfunctional franchise in the NBA. Also, his contract is not terrible for what he brings and what he could bring compared to other guys we would be in contention to sign. He is due 26-27 million next year and then has an ETO the following year for like 28 million. that is 2 years and like 56 million. I'd take that in a second and try to get him in shape and in tune with the heat culture than give a guy like Dion waiters 5 years at 15+ million per year or Gordon Hayward 5 years for 34 million a year which it would take to get him. Hayward is a nice player, but give me 2 years of Carmelo at 28 million over 5 years of Hayward at 34 million. Hayward will never be a number 1 option on a championship team.

And Carmelo has played good defense in his career. He has just played for a dumpster fire of a franchise that does not emphasize defense. The heat would get him in shape if he willingly chooses to waive his no trade clause to play here and he can be the number 1 scoring option on a contending team..

This depth chart:
Dragic/Tyler Johnson
Richardson/McGruder/Ellington
Melo/Winslow/White
James Johnson/Babbitt
Whiteside

With the addition of veterans who would be willing to come her for the minimum has literally no glaring flaws.

Perimeter defenders: J Johnson, T Johnson, McGruder, Richardson, Winslow
Post D: Whiteside, J Johnson is a perfect 4 in this age of basketball
Go to scoring: Melo and Dragic
Shooting: Ellington, Johnson's, Melo, Dragic, Babbitt, Richardson
And tons of youth. What is missing on that team to not make them a contender?

heat3X
04-13-2017, 05:41 PM
Never been a fan of Melo. A core of Melo, Whiteside, Waiters, and Dragic wouldn't be the worst in the world, though.

It would be J Johnson instead of Waiters. Johnson fits into their culture more and this day and age of basketball more and as a Draymond-light stretch 4 he does serious damage and is a great perimeter defender and post defender.


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James Johnson finished the season allowing 67 points on 110 combined isolations/post-ups. Opponents shot 27-of-89 (30.3 percent).

heat3X
04-13-2017, 05:43 PM
And i think the Clips would be the destination for Carmelo if they werent in the west. I dont think there is a chance carmelo goes to the West, I think the bulls will blow it up personally although you all are free to disagree, and I dont see what the move is for Cleveland to get Melo. They wont trade Love for him and what else do they have that would be attractive to the Knicks.

That heat pick at 14 i think would be very attractive to the knicks and the fact that they will have nearly 40 million in cap space after they can take bosh's salary off the books, meaning the heat can just absorb his cap hit and not have to give them back any salary which would give them a huge trade exception and a first rounder which would be exactly the type of thing the knicks would be looking for.

MJNetsIsles
04-13-2017, 05:45 PM
A Miami Heat fan clamoring for a New York NBA star player because his team didn't make the Playoffs. What a sad sad thread. It's nice to dream isn't it?

Quinnsanity
04-13-2017, 06:03 PM
that depth chart is 100% a contender. the heat won 30 of 41 games in the second half when healthy this year, and lost many key games because of their lack of a go to option down the stretch of games.

In what world is
Dragic/Tyler Johnson
Richardson/McGruder/Ellington
Melo/Winslow/White
James Johnson/Babbitt
Whiteside

with veterans likely willing to come to play for the minimum not a contender? The team played at a 60 win pace in the second half of the year, that team is certainly a contender, especially in the east, and it is more of a contender than any other team he is going to accept a trade to.

First of all, it doesn't seem like you understand the finer points of the salary cap and CBA. If you removed Chris Bosh and Josh McRoberts and added Carmelo Anthony (remember he has a 15% trade kicker) and nobody else, the Heat would have $87.7 million or so on the books. They would only have nine players under contract, though, so they would have five minimum salary cap holds at $562,493 (this is a directly negotiated CBA figure that is not dependent on the cap), so that takes them to around $89.4 million. The Heat do not have bird rights on Johnson or Babbit. They were signed to one-year contracts last summer. Therefore, they must be signed with cap space. If the cap is projected to be $101 million and the Heat are at $89.4 million, they do not have $12 million available to sign James Johnson to the contract you suggested (which I think is low, I imagine someone pays Johnson in the $15 million range), much less retain Babbit as well. I don't know where you're getting this "Luke Babbit will only cost $1.3 million against the cap regardless," number. That's fictional. He signed a one-year contract without any options, and even if the Heat did have his bird rights, his cap hold would be 150% of his $1.3 million salary which is $1.95 million. So you need to tinker a bit to make this work under the cap if you want Johnson and Babbit back.

But more importantly, you're forgetting the Stepien Rule. The rule states that a team cannot trade their first round pick in consecutive years. Well, the Heat traded their 2016 first round pick, and their 2018 first round pick is not at this moment their property (due to the Goran Dragic trade). Therefore, they cannot trade their 2017 first round pick. They have to draft a player. They can trade that player, but once a drafted player signs a contract he cannot be traded for one month (remember Cleveland waiting a month to trade Andrew Wiggins a few years ago? This is why). The earliest a player can be signed is the day the moratorium ends, July 7th. So whatever rookie the Heat take at No. 14 cannot be traded until August 7th at the earliest. You think the Heat are going to base their entire offseason, all of their signings, around a trade they have to wait a month to make? Newsflash: James Johnson and Luke Babbit, let alone the bigger name players they might have interest in, are not going to wait around to see what happens with Melo. And more importantly, these veteran bench players who want to play for contenders that you think are coming won't either. Why would they wait a month to sign with a hypothetical contender (which they wouldn't be anyway) when they could immediately go to Golden State or San Antonio or Cleveland without doubt? Worthwhile ring chasers probably aren't going to be around in August, and if they are, they're probably looking for a better team than the Heat plus Carmelo.

Finally, no, those Heat are not a contender. Carmelo Anthony plays for my team. I can tell you pretty emphatically that he is not the caliber of player that takes a team from .500 to contention at this point in his career. He's a horrific fit for Miami's slash and kick offense (Spo would go crazy watching him jab step and hold the ball) and he can't defend at even an average level consistently anymore. All of this is before you remember that Dragic is going to be a year older, Waiters will be gone even by your own admission (and the 18 points on 46% shooting you got from him from the streak on is only slightly less than Carmelo would give you in that same slot, but he'd hit fewer three's), Winslow needs to be reintroduced into the equation and James Johnson is very likely to regress to his pre-Miami shooting levels (he took 255 this season, about a third of the way to the necessary 750 for a sample to be deemed credible). They'd have less talent than Cleveland, Boston and Washington all have under contract already for next season and all three of those teams could make changes to improve. Milwaukee's young talent is going to improve and likely get them into the top four, so even at best you're looking at a No. 5 seed (which I don't think they'd get anyway). No. 5 seeds are not contenders.


Would he go to Chicago?

Here's my list of teams he'd play for, ignoring how he'd end up there.

Absolutely:

Golden State
Cleveland
San Antonio
Clippers (if everyone is back)

Probably:

Celtics
Rockets

50/50:

Denver
Chicago
Washington

The first six are the six best teams in the league by record. The last three are teams he has personal connections to (for those who don't know, Carmelo actually grew up in Baltimore). That connection with Chicago is severed if Wade leaves, which feels like a distinct possibility. But Carmelo doesn't have a personal connection to Miami.

But gun to my head, do I think he'd play for Chicago if Wade is there? Yes. There's no harm in it. If he's not happy there he can opt out after one year and go where he'd like. I imagine if the options are "stay in New York for another year of getting **** from Phil" or "play with Wade and maybe win in the high 40's" he chooses the latter.

But I think we need to divorce ourselves from the notion that the team Carmelo plays for next year is the team he's on for the rest of his career. I would not be remotely surprised if Carmelo, just to shut all of us up, took a smaller contract from a contender in the summer of 2018. And he'll have plenty of options. The Spurs are probably going to have a bunch of cap space with Parker and Gasol coming off of the books (and their inability to re-sign Dedmon to a market value contract this summer). Golden State should have a full non-tax payer mid-level exception since they can't use one this summer (because they'll be a cap space team). Houston will have cap space. Some other team might become a contender between now and then, especially with Paul George, Russell Westbrook and DeMarcus Cousins set to become free agents that very summer.

I'm not all that interested in what team Carmelo plays for next year beyond whether or not he's a Knick. I don't think he'll swing next year's title as, say, a Bull, but I think his 2018 free agency has the potential to be pretty interesting.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 06:04 PM
A Miami Heat fan clamoring for a New York NBA star player because his team didn't make the Playoffs. What a sad sad thread. It's nice to dream isn't it?

The heat were the 3rd best team in the entire NBA over the last 41 games of the year. They were tied with the nets for the worst record in the league as late as january. They finished 21 games ahead of the nets. When you wonder why the heat continue to be an attractive destination for free agents and the nets overpay for mediocre players continuously, just do some research into the way the heat run their organziation compared to the nets and then get back to me.

The heat had the worst possible outcome of ruining a potential top pick combined with missing the playoffs and i've never been more proud and excited to be a fan of a team.

MJNetsIsles
04-13-2017, 06:06 PM
The heat were the 3rd best team in the entire NBA over the last 41 games of the year. They were tied with the nets for the worst record in the league as late as january. They finished 21 games ahead of the nets. When you wonder why the heat continue to be an attractive destination for free agents and the nets overpay for mediocre players continuously, just do some research into the way the heat run their organziation compared to the nets and then get back to me.

The heat had the worst possible outcome of ruining a potential top pick combined with missing the playoffs and i've never been more proud and excited to be a fan of a team.

Triggered.

MJNetsIsles
04-13-2017, 06:06 PM
Heat3X is writing college essays on this thing. I feel bad for his keyboard.

RCarlson85
04-13-2017, 06:08 PM
I don't want Melo anywhere near the Heat. He's a cancer. He plays no defense, isn't a team player, and just isn't a winner. He does not fit into what the Heat are trying to build.

HeartOfStarks
04-13-2017, 06:12 PM
I'd gladly flip Melo to the Heat or Bulls for that 14th/15th pick and filler. Sign me up.

Quinnsanity
04-13-2017, 06:32 PM
I'm going to state this as plainly as possible so people don't have to go through my last novel of a post to find it.

The Heat cannot trade their 2017 1st round pick due to the Stepien Rule. The rule states that a team cannot trade their first round pick in consecutive seasons. They traded their 2016 pick and their 2018 pick belongs to Phoenix through the Goran Dragic trade. They must make a pick at No. 14. They cannot trade it. The earliest they could trade the player that they select would be August 7th, one month after the moratorium ends, because rookies can only be traded one month after they've signed their contract.

We clear on that one?

heat3X
04-13-2017, 06:37 PM
First of all, it doesn't seem like you understand the finer points of the salary cap and CBA. If you removed Chris Bosh and Josh McRoberts and added Carmelo Anthony (remember he has a 15% trade kicker) and nobody else, the Heat would have $87.7 million or so on the books. They would only have nine players under contract, though, so they would have five minimum salary cap holds at $562,493 (this is a directly negotiated CBA figure that is not dependent on the cap), so that takes them to around $89.4 million. The Heat do not have bird rights on Johnson or Babbit. They were signed to one-year contracts last summer. Therefore, they must be signed with cap space. If the cap is projected to be $101 million and the Heat are at $89.4 million, they do not have $12 million available to sign James Johnson to the contract you suggested (which I think is low, I imagine someone pays Johnson in the $15 million range), much less retain Babbit as well. I don't know where you're getting this "Luke Babbit will only cost $1.3 million against the cap regardless," number. That's fictional. He signed a one-year contract without any options, and even if the Heat did have his bird rights, his cap hold would be 150% of his $1.3 million salary which is $1.95 million. So you need to tinker a bit to make this work under the cap if you want Johnson and Babbit back.

But more importantly, you're forgetting the Stepien Rule. The rule states that a team cannot trade their first round pick in consecutive years. Well, the Heat traded their 2016 first round pick, and their 2018 first round pick is not at this moment their property (due to the Goran Dragic trade). Therefore, they cannot trade their 2017 first round pick. They have to draft a player. They can trade that player, but once a drafted player signs a contract he cannot be traded for one month (remember Cleveland waiting a month to trade Andrew Wiggins a few years ago? This is why). The earliest a player can be signed is the day the moratorium ends, July 7th. So whatever rookie the Heat take at No. 14 cannot be traded until August 7th at the earliest. You think the Heat are going to base their entire offseason, all of their signings, around a trade they have to wait a month to make? Newsflash: James Johnson and Luke Babbit, let alone the bigger name players they might have interest in, are not going to wait around to see what happens with Melo. And more importantly, these veteran bench players who want to play for contenders that you think are coming won't either. Why would they wait a month to sign with a hypothetical contender (which they wouldn't be anyway) when they could immediately go to Golden State or San Antonio or Cleveland without doubt? Worthwhile ring chasers probably aren't going to be around in August, and if they are, they're probably looking for a better team than the Heat plus Carmelo.

Finally, no, those Heat are not a contender. Carmelo Anthony plays for my team. I can tell you pretty emphatically that he is not the caliber of player that takes a team from .500 to contention at this point in his career. He's a horrific fit for Miami's slash and kick offense (Spo would go crazy watching him jab step and hold the ball) and he can't defend at even an average level consistently anymore. All of this is before you remember that Dragic is going to be a year older, Waiters will be gone even by your own admission (and the 18 points on 46% shooting you got from him from the streak on is only slightly less than Carmelo would give you in that same slot, but he'd hit fewer three's), Winslow needs to be reintroduced into the equation and James Johnson is very likely to regress to his pre-Miami shooting levels (he took 255 this season, about a third of the way to the necessary 750 for a sample to be deemed credible). They'd have less talent than Cleveland, Boston and Washington all have under contract already for next season and all three of those teams could make changes to improve. Milwaukee's young talent is going to improve and likely get them into the top four, so even at best you're looking at a No. 5 seed (which I don't think they'd get anyway). No. 5 seeds are not contenders.
.

I understand the finer points of the salary cap. The heat do have babbitt's bird rights.


• Luke Babbitt: He came on strong in the second half of the season before a hip flexor injury and has a career-high 87 three-pointers on 41.4 percent three-point shooting (13th in the league).

Because he has Bird Rights, he would cost only $1.47 million against Miami’s cap if the Heat keeps him. But the Heat needs a bit of roster churn to upgrade a .500 team, and Babbitt’s roster spot might be one of a limited number of available ones beyond Chris Bosh’s.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article144061639.html#storylink=cpy


The Heat have Bird rights on Luke Babbitt, so if he re-signs he will only count $1.47MM against the cap regardless of his salary.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/luke-babbitt

Im not forgetting the Stepien rule. The heat would obviously have to agree in principle to the trade and then draft the player and trade him on draft night, which would be well before the free agency period already begins. The draft is june 22. You are completely wrong. Plus, if the heat have an agreement in principle, they wouldnt foolishly sign a draft pick to a contract forcing them to wait a month.

Your entire premise is completely based off the incorrect assumption that the heat have to wait this huge long time to get this done. This can be done on draft night.

James Johnson has stated he will take less to play here and you are ignoring everything coming out of the heat from the second half of the season talking about how this is the closest team any of these guys has ever been a part of. And while I would agree that James Johnson is likely to regress, I disagree because the James Johnson you are thinking he will regress to is a guy who had 8% higher body fat and 45 plus pounds than he currently has. James Johnson is a completely different player this year than anyone ever thought he could be, and he credits the heat for getting him in shape and helping him lose that body fat and 45 pounds. James Johnson and Wayne Ellington both lost a **** ton of weight that people in the NBA didnt even know they could lose, and they got more out of guys to the point that Frank Isola tweeted out how players on the knicks, including Carmelo, were actively wondering how the heat were getting so much out of all of these guys nobody thought was good.


For next year under contract right now, we have

Whiteside 23,775,506
Dragic 17,000,450
Tyler Johnson 5,881,260
Winslow 2,705,040
Richardson 1,471,382
McGruder 1,312,611
Okaro 1,312,611
Ellington 6,270,000
Babbitt 1,470,000

Ellingtons 6.2 million is also nonguaranteed and the date to guarantee is July 7, so if he needs to go to make it work, the heat can also do that. With Ellington in there that is a total of 61,198,860 in salary. With ellington gone that number is 54,928,860 in salary. With Ellington we would have 9 players so we would need only 3 cap holds, or around 1.6-1.7 million. Without him that is 8 players so 4 cap holds around 2.3.

With Ellington- that is around 38 million in salary cap space and without him that is 44 million. James Johnson has publicly stated how grateful he is for the heat franchise and publicly stated he wants to be here the rest of his career.

Winslow coming back wouldnt be an issue. He has a 2 million salary and is probably better suited as a great perimeter defender, which he is, for the next few years while he hopefully develops his shot.

I actually didnt know about the carmelo trade kicker, so that is 30,180,324 for next year, but thanks for letting me know that.

Again, that Heat team would certainly be a contender. If the Heat get him to buy in, which he has proven before he would be willing to do for a non dumpster fire team and get in shape, he is exactly what they need in a scorer and has shown that when he tries he can at least not be a black hole defensively.

And Melo is a bad fit if he is unhappy, if he buys in and gets in shape, which this whole idea would be premised on, he would be a great fit in Spo's offense. Spo fits his offense around his personnel, just look at the different offenses he's had in his different eras as heat coach pre-Lebron, during Lebron, and now post Lebron.

The veterans would thus not need to wait until August 7 like you are assuming, as this would all be done before free agency ever begins.

Taking Carmelo's trade kicker, not guaranteeing Ellington's contract, and then 3 cap holds, we would have 14,270,816 to spend for James Johnson. That is more than enough given his willingness to stay here. The heat are benefitted greatly by Tyler Johnsons contract still being affordable, and Richardson, McGruder White, and Babbitt still on contracts of 1.5 million and less.

That would give them this depth chart.

Dragic/Tyler Johnson
Richardson/ McGruder/
Melo/ Winslow
James Johnson/ Babbitt
Whiteside

With the potential to add veterans for the minimum or low risk fliers on guys like we did last offseason that worked out really well for us.

As far as the other teams, Cleveland needs to overhaul around their big 3 and they will be the favorite as long as Lebron is still playing for the next few years. Washington already has 93 million in salaries committed for next year and still have to give Otto Porter a huge deal in restricted free agency, which means they will have to give up Bogdanovic which will hurt their bench again. So they arent getting significantly better and Gortat is only getting older.

The bucks have a great future and will be really good again, but they also are going to be relying on this same core because they are capped out.

Boston also has a great future but we have no idea what they will look like next year but they will also be up there. I think there is a good chance they move IT if they get Fultz or Ball in a deal trying to get George or Butler so they will be one of the best teams again, I agree.

But where is Melo going to go with a better chance to win. Clips arent going to win the west with him, Cleveland isnt going to get him because they arent trading love for him and are capped out and dont have any picks to offer NY, and Chicago isnt exactly close to contending with Melo and they dont have much in the way of young talent to supplement Melo.

That heat depth chart does not have one major glaring weakness. Im not saying they are a championship contender, but they have the organizational structure, great coaching, great modern day young center who is only getting better, shooting, perimeter defense, post defense, young cheap talent, and 2 go to scorers for the end of games in Melo and Dragic. That is certainly enough to be in the conversation with the top teams in the east.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 06:47 PM
I'm going to state this as plainly as possible so people don't have to go through my last novel of a post to find it.

The Heat cannot trade their 2017 1st round pick due to the Stepien Rule. The rule states that a team cannot trade their first round pick in consecutive seasons. They traded their 2016 pick and their 2018 pick belongs to Phoenix through the Goran Dragic trade. They must make a pick at No. 14. They cannot trade it. The earliest they could trade the player that they select would be August 7th, one month after the moratorium ends, because rookies can only be traded one month after they've signed their contract.

We clear on that one?

Im pretty certain if they take the player and trade him on draft night or trade his rights the day after, they can still do it. But ill take your word on it. Again, if the heat agree to the trade in principle and even if they have to sign the pick and wait till august 7 till its official, they can do that and still go about their offseason the same way and just wait to make it official till august 7 or whatever the day is.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 06:50 PM
I don't want Melo anywhere near the Heat. He's a cancer. He plays no defense, isn't a team player, and just isn't a winner. He does not fit into what the Heat are trying to build.

What did you think of the heat signing Dion Waiters?

Again my whole premise of this entire possibility is that i'd much rather trade a most likely meaningless first round pick at number 14 and mcroberts salary and get melo for 30 million for 2 years rather than overpay what Hayward is actually worth and give him 34 million over 5 years or give Waiters 15 million over 5 years. And Pat Riley would too. He goes big all the time if it is ever possible.

Slug3
04-13-2017, 06:51 PM
I think for melo to even have a chance at coming to Miami would be with Wade coming back. But I feel like if his time is done in NY he will most likely end up on the Clippers.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 07:02 PM
I think for melo to even have a chance at coming to Miami would be with Wade coming back. But I feel like if his time is done in NY he will most likely end up on the Clippers.

I am in agreement on him wanting to play for the Clippers, but I think there is 0 chance he wants to go out west.

I think the best opportunity for him to win a title or at least be much more competitive than he has been in NY is Cleveland, which i dont think needs a player like Melo or do i think they would give up Love for Melo, Chicago, which I think has a really good shot of just blowing the team up this offseason, Boston, which i think is a huge possibility if they just have to give up one of their late firsts if they think they wont be able to get a guy like Hayward, or the Heat, which desperately needs a go to scorer, will let him be the number 1 option on offense, has young talent, great shooting, a great big man, good post d and perimiter d, and can convince him to get in the best shape of his career and get the most out of him.

My whole premise on him coming here would be him talking with Spo and Riley and them convincing him to buy in, get in the best shape of his career, and get the most out of what he can give at this stage in his career. I think he can be a lot better than what he has been in NY the last few years as an all around player because the knicks are a dumpster fire of a franchise.

WaDe03
04-13-2017, 07:09 PM
I think for melo to even have a chance at coming to Miami would be with Wade coming back. But I feel like if his time is done in NY he will most likely end up on the Clippers.

I agree that's the only way he would go to Miami.

Slug3
04-13-2017, 07:14 PM
I'm going to state this as plainly as possible so people don't have to go through my last novel of a post to find it.

The Heat cannot trade their 2017 1st round pick due to the Stepien Rule. The rule states that a team cannot trade their first round pick in consecutive seasons. They traded their 2016 pick and their 2018 pick belongs to Phoenix through the Goran Dragic trade. They must make a pick at No. 14. They cannot trade it. The earliest they could trade the player that they select would be August 7th, one month after the moratorium ends, because rookies can only be traded one month after they've signed their contract.

We clear on that one?

Got any links for this? Went looking but you know how it is with these rules, they are buried.

All I was able to find is Heat can't trade this pick, but they could trade the draft rights once they make that pick.

NYKnickFanatic
04-13-2017, 07:15 PM
I honestly think he will stay a Knick.

Slug3
04-13-2017, 07:17 PM
I am in agreement on him wanting to play for the Clippers, but I think there is 0 chance he wants to go out west.

I think the best opportunity for him to win a title or at least be much more competitive than he has been in NY is Cleveland, which i dont think needs a player like Melo or do i think they would give up Love for Melo, Chicago, which I think has a really good shot of just blowing the team up this offseason, Boston, which i think is a huge possibility if they just have to give up one of their late firsts if they think they wont be able to get a guy like Hayward, or the Heat, which desperately needs a go to scorer, will let him be the number 1 option on offense, has young talent, great shooting, a great big man, good post d and perimiter d, and can convince him to get in the best shape of his career and get the most out of him.

My whole premise on him coming here would be him talking with Spo and Riley and them convincing him to buy in, get in the best shape of his career, and get the most out of what he can give at this stage in his career. I think he can be a lot better than what he has been in NY the last few years as an all around player because the knicks are a dumpster fire of a franchise.

I'm not sure how important playing for a chip is to Melo at this point. Yeah everyone wants one, but I think playing with friends and also taking what his wife thinks/says will be more of a priority then winning it all.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 07:17 PM
Got any links for this? Went looking but you know how it is with these rules, they are buried.

All I was able to find is Heat can't trade this pick, but they could trade the draft rights once they make that pick.

That was my assumption too, but even if they cant and have to sign the pick and then trade him a month later, if the agreement in principle is finalized that wouldnt be a problem, so long as the knicks are professional and dont back out the day it could be official, which i assume would make no one ever deal with the knicks again so i doubt they would do that.

Slug3
04-13-2017, 07:17 PM
I honestly think he will stay a Knick.

People seem to forget how much his wife loves NY.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 07:21 PM
I'm not sure how important playing for a chip is to Melo at this point. Yeah everyone wants one, but I think playing with friends and also taking what his wife thinks/says will be more of a priority then winning it all.

Thats a good possibility. Who knows what he's thinking. If im the heat i only do this if they talk to him before hand and can get him to buy into the culture and get into the best shape of his career.

Again, im trying to find the link but Frank Isola posted a story/tweet a month or so back with knicks players wondering aloud after a game about how the heat are getting so much out of all of their players and the knicks thought they had more talent than the heat, which they dont. The heat got out of james johnson what 4 other teams before them couldn't get out of him because they got him into shape, he lost like 40 pounds and 8% body fat from the time he signed until now. No one knew he had this all around game, including the heat, but the heat have the ability and culture and organizational structure to get players in the best shape of their career and get them to buy in. That is what i would be counting on with Melo. No telling what he is thinking, however.

Slug3
04-13-2017, 07:26 PM
Thats a good possibility. Who knows what he's thinking. If im the heat i only do this if they talk to him before hand and can get him to buy into the culture and get into the best shape of his career.

Again, im trying to find the link but Frank Isola posted a story/tweet a month or so back with knicks players wondering aloud after a game about how the heat are getting so much out of all of their players and the knicks thought they had more talent than the heat, which they dont. The heat got out of james johnson what 4 other teams before them couldn't get out of him because they got him into shape, he lost like 40 pounds and 8% body fat from the time he signed until now. No one knew he had this all around game, including the heat, but the heat have the ability and culture and organizational structure to get players in the best shape of their career and get them to buy in. That is what i would be counting on with Melo. No telling what he is thinking, however.

I do remember Rose coming out and saying they are more talented than the Heat.

archdevil84
04-13-2017, 08:40 PM
heat3X im with you man. i personally have been saying this for the entire year. I think that melo, if (and this is a very big if) he buys into our culture and gets in shape etc. etc. could be the missing link for this team. Melo would cover literally all of our weak points that we have on offense at the moment (3 point shooting, post up game, go to guy late offense). His defense might be bad but if he atleast tries and gives a little effort im pretty confident that our other defensive wings can cover it up. I will admit im a little biased because melo is one of my favorite players but i would love him on our team next year

Slug3
04-13-2017, 09:29 PM
heat3X im with you man. i personally have been saying this for the entire year. I think that melo, if (and this is a very big if) he buys into our culture and gets in shape etc. etc. could be the missing link for this team. Melo would cover literally all of our weak points that we have on offense at the moment (3 point shooting, post up game, go to guy late offense). His defense might be bad but if he atleast tries and gives a little effort im pretty confident that our other defensive wings can cover it up. I will admit im a little biased because melo is one of my favorite players but i would love him on our team next year

Post all star break once we got healthy I believe Miami was top 5 in 3 point %.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 09:46 PM
Post all star break once we got healthy I believe Miami was top 5 in 3 point %.

Ya, we have literally everything in a team except that one star to go to down the stretch. Dragic is a great number 2 option, but when hes forced to be the number 1 guy it can get bogged down down the stretch of games. You saw it when there was such a huge difference down the stretch of games when Waiters played, and he isnt the offensive threat that Carmelo is.

We have perimeter defenders in Richardson, Winslow, McGruder, James Johnson, Tyler Johnson
Post defenders- Whiteside, James Johnson
3 pt shooters in Dragic, Johnson(s), Richardson, Babbitt, Ellington
We just need a go to guy down the stretch that can make Dragic the number 2 option and take some of the pressure off him.

Kyben36
04-13-2017, 09:51 PM
I think the Bulls are going in the opposite direction. They will be out of the playoffs in 5, Wade is going to go to a contender in the offseason, and I think they will end up rebuilding and maybe giving Butler to the Celtics.

i understant that as well, i do think we make a playoff push though, after all, this bulls team is historicyally odd, having a loosing record vs bad teams, and a winning record vs good teams.

but, i do not think they deal butler, and i dont think wade leaves, i think both do heavy recruiting if anything, and may fail, but i dont see a full rebuild going, not with how jimmy is playing, the celtics wont give up what the bulls demand anyway, i can just tell, they want a prime star and dont want to give up any of their assets for him.

Kyben36
04-13-2017, 09:54 PM
Melo's Options:

1. Knicks
2. Clippers (Cp3)
3. Cavs (Lebron, Shump, JR)
4. Bulls (D-Wade)

dont see clips as an option personally, they have tons to pay to keep that team together, they cant afford to take on melo's 30 mil (after kicker) cavs have peices they could trade, heat can probably absorb him. i dont think there are many options for him.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
04-13-2017, 10:13 PM
I understand what your saying on taking the chance on Melo for 2 years over 5 years and a bit more money to Hayward. I personally think that GH while costing more would be the better option. He may not quite be the best #1 option but with Dragic as the #2 you don't need a great #1. Also GH is still going to keep improving. He was a all star this year and will be for years to come. Also think he will strive more coming to the east than he has out west. Although he has a very good situation that he would be having to be willing to leave in Utah.

As for Melo and the heat... I think if he came there and followed the Johnson mold of getting in the best shape of his career it could revive Melos career. However with that said if hes not playing at the level he did during his prime or very close to i dont know how much of a "contender" the heat really are. I understand they had hell of a 2nd half just like my bucks. My bucks were 2 games over .500 before losing like 12/13 of 14/15 and dropping like 10 games below .500. They stormed back the 2nd half finishing 42-40. However I think they like the heat are closer to the middle of their first half of the season (sucking) and the 2nd half (tearing it up). I think both teams are somewhere in the middle of what they showed. So even should prime melo show up in Miami where does that really get you? Maybe 3-6 seed at best. If your willing to accept that and put faith in being able to make 1 more move to get you in the 1-4 seed talk than it's a good move. Which brings me back to Gordon, if you sign him for 4/5 years that gives you much more time to let the team gel and eventaully look for that 1 or 2 moves to go from the 3-6 to 1-4 seeds.

I will say that wherever Melo ends up in the next 2-3 years I hope that it is a good fit for him and gives him the motivation to get in great shape and play his hardest on both ends. Also hoping he ends up somewhere he can get some more playoff games on his career resume. I'd hate for his career to be remembered for his play after getting to NY and not making the playoffs over the time he tore up the league n lead the nuggets to the playoffs and wcf. So I just hope he has some individual success and team success wherever he ends up.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
04-13-2017, 10:18 PM
Also from what ive seen of highlights of the heat the 2nd half and games vs the bucks and games on national tv it seemed as if Dion waiters really coming on and leading this team had to do with a lot of the teams success. Did I get the wrong drift from that? Also is the heat fan consensus that Dion played himself out of Miami's price range to resign him? Or the reason you just don't have him designed in this thread is bc of the money being spent on a stars contract?

Also how much of him leaving is going to hurt you guys? Or can what he brought be easily replaced and what announcers and espn were saying just over stating what Dion brought to the team?

heat3X
04-13-2017, 10:39 PM
Also from what ive seen of highlights of the heat the 2nd half and games vs the bucks and games on national tv it seemed as if Dion waiters really coming on and leading this team had to do with a lot of the teams success. Did I get the wrong drift from that? Also is the heat fan consensus that Dion played himself out of Miami's price range to resign him? Or the reason you just don't have him designed in this thread is bc of the money being spent on a stars contract?

Also how much of him leaving is going to hurt you guys? Or can what he brought be easily replaced and what announcers and espn were saying just over stating what Dion brought to the team?

Dion was nice, but to me he is not a guy you pay a lot of money too. If he gets a lot of money from another team and goes on to keep improving, well ****, that happens, but Id much rather spend money on Johnson and then go after a guy like Melo, because we need a better go to scorer late in games. James johnson is the guy you pay in this day and age of basketball. He is Draymond-light and has an incredible all around game that no one knew about till he got into shape. His versatility both offensively and defensively is much more critical in this day and age than a guy like Waiters. Not to mention we have Tyler Johnson, Richardson, Mcgruder, and Winslow coming back and all do a little version of what waiters can do and can absorb some of waiters loss.

Waiters was most important in that he took pressure off of Dragic. The record when those 2 play together and the enhanced room that Dragic had to work with when he had that other perimeter scoring threat out there jumped off the screen, but Melo would make that even more apparent, and i have 0 confidence after he played just like 40 something games that this was the reality and not the aberration compared to what he has been most of his career.

James Johnson per 36 minutes put up 17 ppg, 6.5 RPG, and 4.8 APG, 1.5 BPG 1.3 SPG, 48% overall and 34% from 3, while playing everything from PG to C and guarding pretty much every position. He is older but that versatility offensively and defensively and his general attitude is something I would invest in over Waiters. Not to mention those stats are offset by the fact that the heat had no idea he had that all around offensive game and his role grew in the offense as the year went on and the heat realized the skills he brings offensively and turned more of the offense over to him off the bench.

Plus, I think given his age he wont get as big of a deal as Waiters will from a foolish team like the nets or Kings in free agency who thinks he can be a number 1 option.

Quinnsanity
04-13-2017, 10:40 PM
Got any links for this? Went looking but you know how it is with these rules, they are buried.

All I was able to find is Heat can't trade this pick, but they could trade the draft rights once they make that pick.

I believe Coon's FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com) has it, but I don't want to go digging through the entire document or find the actual CBA. I don't know the exact wording of the rule, but I believe it's part of the Stepien Rule as a sort of good faith measure to ensure teams actually bring young guys in. I know for sure that there's a one month waiting period between when a rookie signs and when he can be traded. We saw that play out with Andrew Wiggins a few years ago. But I am still fairly certain that the Stepien Rule prevents teams from trading a draft pick immediately after making it if it would trigger the circumstances of the rule in the first place (not having your first round pick in two consecutive drafts).

heat3X
04-13-2017, 10:46 PM
i understant that as well, i do think we make a playoff push though, after all, this bulls team is historicyally odd, having a loosing record vs bad teams, and a winning record vs good teams.

but, i do not think they deal butler, and i dont think wade leaves, i think both do heavy recruiting if anything, and may fail, but i dont see a full rebuild going, not with how jimmy is playing, the celtics wont give up what the bulls demand anyway, i can just tell, they want a prime star and dont want to give up any of their assets for him.

I just think it is a horrifically put together team that has limited potential in this day and age of the NBA. Love Wade, but him not being a 3 pt shooter and losing his ability to be the number 1 option was one of the reasons i was ok letting him go in free agency. He bogs down the offense and in the modern NBA with the math favoring 3 pt shooting, he really hurts the team, especially on a team like the Bulls whose number 1 option isnt a great 3 pt shooter either.

Plus what is the peak of that bulls team. butler, Melo and wade? Good names but im not sure how that would work. I think there would be a lot of inconsistency just like the bulls this year. I think they have 0 shot of beating the celtics, and i dont think the celtics are a finals team either this year. I could be completely wrong though.

And I think if the Celtics cant get Hayward and that pick somehow ends up out of the top 2 i think they pull the trigger on a first round pick + 1 of their younger guys like Smart or Crowder or someone like that and another piece for Butler. I think Butler or George is a really good bet to be on the celtics next year.

If i'm the celtics and they get the top pick, I take Fultz, try to trade IT and one of their lesser firsts for Butler or George and see if one of them bites on the possibility of grabbing IT.

Fultz
Bradley
Butler or George/ Crowder
Jaylen Brown or one of their other players as a small ball 4
Horford

To me i think that is more sustainable and a better long term fit than having to pay IT next summer.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 10:49 PM
I believe Coon's FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com) has it, but I don't want to go digging through the entire document or find the actual CBA. I don't know the exact wording of the rule, but I believe it's part of the Stepien Rule as a sort of good faith measure to ensure teams actually bring young guys in. I know for sure that there's a one month waiting period between when a rookie signs and when he can be traded. We saw that play out with Andrew Wiggins a few years ago. But I am still fairly certain that the Stepien Rule prevents teams from trading a draft pick immediately after making it if it would trigger the circumstances of the rule in the first place (not having your first round pick in two consecutive drafts).

I just read it and it doesnt really get into that, but im almost positive you can get around that by just trading the draft rights the next day or during the draft after the pick is made.

Dade County
04-13-2017, 11:11 PM
No Thank You!



Melo will be a perfect fit in N.O especially if Cp3 goes back...

Cp3
?
Melo
AD
Cousins

If not, then the Clippers.

HEAT should aim to pull of a trade for Lillard, and hope to sign either Hayward or Blake.


Lillard
Richardson
Hayward
J Johnson
Whiteside

heat3X
04-13-2017, 11:13 PM
No Thank You!



Melo will be a perfect fit in N.O especially if Cp3 goes back...

Cp3
?
Melo
AD
Cousins

If not, then the Clippers.

HEAT should aim to pull of a trade for Lillard, and hope to sign either Hayward or Blake.


Lillard
Richardson
Hayward
J Johnson
Whiteside

You aware of the thing called the salary cap? lillard plays 0 defense and we are good with Dragic on a below market contract at PG.

Dade County
04-13-2017, 11:14 PM
heat3x

You just joined PSD this month it seems... So you might be just trying to troll all of us LoL

FOXHOUND
04-13-2017, 11:15 PM
I doubt Melo wants to play for Miami. He'll only leave the Knicks for a true contender. The Heat aren't one.

Yes, this is my feeling as well. Maybe if Wade went back he would consider it more but I kinda doubt that with how last offseason played out. Even if Riley took something like that lightly, and I don't think he does, they won't have the cap space to sign Wade and absorb Melo no matter what happens with Bosh's contract. If Bosh's money isn't cleared by FA, Miami is only going to have around $10M of cap space.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 11:16 PM
heat3x

You just joined PSD this month it seems... So you might be just trying to troll all of us LoL

no trolling. Melo to the heat is a perfect scenario for the heat because it gives them the star talent and go to scorer they need that they dont have to commit long term max money to and wont cost much because of the Knicks lack of leverage.

FlashBolt
04-13-2017, 11:18 PM
Why would you want Melo is the better question. He's going downhill fast.

Dade County
04-13-2017, 11:22 PM
Here's my list of teams he'd play for, ignoring how he'd end up there.

Absolutely:

Golden State
Cleveland
San Antonio
Clippers (if everyone is back)

Probably:

Celtics
Rockets

50/50:

Denver
Chicago
Washington

.


I don't see him going to Boston. The Wiz would be a good fit, they would be a big man away from competing with Lbj.

Of course GS would never happen. But I do like that you aded the Spurs & the Rockets; but would Melo really want to play under D'Antoni again.

Quinnsanity
04-13-2017, 11:29 PM
I just read it and it doesnt really get into that, but im almost positive you can get around that by just trading the draft rights the next day or during the draft after the pick is made.

I can't remember a precedent for it. Almost all draft pick swaps involve another draft pick coming back, which does not violate the Stepien Rule (it's why Brooklyn could include the 2017 pick swap with Boston when they also gave up their 2016 and 2018 picks), so if Miami were to trade the No. 14 pick in a deal that included another 2017 1st round pick coming back, I believe that would be acceptable. But I can't ever remember a team restricted by the Stepien Rule trading a first round pick without getting one back, which would prove your theory.

In any case I tweeted at Larry Coon to see if he could provide some clarity on the issue, because whether or not it's in the cap FAQ he would know the answer. I remain fairly certain that the Stepien Rule's exact wording stipulates that a player has to be drafted and signed, but I don't have the CBA in front of me.

Dade County
04-13-2017, 11:30 PM
no trolling. Melo to the heat is a perfect scenario for the heat because it gives them the star talent and go to scorer they need that they dont have to commit long term max money to and wont cost much because of the Knicks lack of leverage.


I see what you are saying, and maybe if Wade came back to Miami (non-stater, earning 8mil a year); maybe Melo would want to come. But I don't think Pat really wants to deal with the 2003 draft class anymore; for the most part they are diva's.

Melo in N.O or the Clippers would help out the West a little in battling GS.


Players like, Lillard (he was on the trading block), Hayward, PG, would be better for Miami. They are younger and more coachable. And with every year that passes Lbj isn't going up against father time. The East just has to wait him out; this was decided as soon as KD went to GS.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 11:32 PM
I see what you are saying, and maybe if Wade came back to Miami (non-stater, earning 8mil a year); maybe Melo would want to come. But I don't think Pat really wants to deal with the 2003 draft class anymore; for the most part they are diva's.

Melo in N.O or the Clippers would help out the West a little in battling GS.


Players like, Lillard (he was on the trading block), Hayward, PG, would be better for Miami. They are younger and more coachable. And with every year that passes Lbj isn't going up against father time. The East just has to wait him out; this was decided as soon as KD went to GS.

Sorry, the heat dont have anything to get PG or Lillard.

The Riley thing is a possibility though. I dont think it would be Riley saying no though, Riley is all about winning and going for it, I think there is a possibility that Melo would talk to Wade and LBJ and they would tell him not to sign here, but I highly doubt that. Those 2 also were taught how to win here and I think Melo would see that.

Dade County
04-13-2017, 11:35 PM
I can't remember a precedent for it. Almost all draft pick swaps involve another draft pick coming back, which does not violate the Stepien Rule (it's why Brooklyn could include the 2017 pick swap with Boston when they also gave up their 2016 and 2018 picks), so if Miami were to trade the No. 14 pick in a deal that included another 2017 1st round pick coming back, I believe that would be acceptable. But I can't ever remember a team restricted by the Stepien Rule trading a first round pick without getting one back, which would prove your theory.

In any case I tweeted at Larry Coon to see if he could provide some clarity on the issue, because whether or not it's in the cap FAQ he would know the answer. I remain fairly certain that the Stepien Rule's exact wording stipulates that a player has to be drafted and signed, but I don't have the CBA in front of me.

It's fine.... Pat can just draft the player and trade him 1 to 2 months later. No big deal.

So whatever team whats Miami 1st rd pick, all Miami has to do is draft the Players that teams wants, and ship him off later.

Dade County
04-13-2017, 11:40 PM
Sorry, the heat dont have anything to get PG or Lillard.

The Riley thing is a possibility though. I dont think it would be Riley saying no though, Riley is all about winning and going for it, I think there is a possibility that Melo would talk to Wade and LBJ and they would tell him not to sign here, but I highly doubt that. Those 2 also were taught how to win here and I think Melo would see that.

What do you think it will take to get Lillard? He was on the trading block. Portland finished in the 8 spot and they don't really have a lot of cap space to actually make a big difference.

I think Miami has enough to start the process, maybe another team joins in so portland can get rod of a contract or two.

N.O needs a pg, I think they would trade their 1st rd Pick for a player like Dragic; they need to kind of build something now and make the playoffs next season. But Pat has options.

heat3X
04-13-2017, 11:44 PM
What do you think it will take to get Lillard? He was on the trading block. Portland finished in the 8 spot and they don't really have a lot of cap space to actually make a big difference.

I think Miami has enough to start the process, maybe another team joins in so portland can get rod of a contract or two.

N.O needs a pg, I think they would trade their 1st rd Pick for a player like Dragic; they need to kind of build something now and make the playoffs next season. But Pat has options.

Lillard wasnt really on the block, and if he was there are teams with much more attractive pieces and picks for a rebuilding team.

Celtics, Pelicans, Lakers, Nuggets, Suns, Sixers, etc all have much better assets for a rebuilding team. Nobody is trading a superstar for a 31 year old PG +, no matter how good Dragic is.

Dade County
04-14-2017, 12:09 AM
You aware of the thing called the salary cap? lillard plays 0 defense and we are good with Dragic on a below market contract at PG.

Naw we need a pg for the future, so when Lbj can't put the entire team on his back anymore we will be their to step on his throat.

And when they get rid of Bosh contract, they will have the room to fit in those contracts. Pat will try to get two all star players in; because as soon as Bosh plays 25 games his money is back on are cap. So Pat has to aim high in this free agency.

Pat will be aiming for Hayward or Blake, and he will try to pull off a trade for an all star player, to have a chance at trying to sign a key free agent. It's all or nothing.

Dade County
04-14-2017, 12:14 AM
Lillard wasnt really on the block, and if he was there are teams with much more attractive pieces and picks for a rebuilding team.

Celtics, Pelicans, Lakers, Nuggets, Suns, Sixers, etc all have much better assets for a rebuilding team. Nobody is trading a superstar for a 31 year old PG +, no matter how good Dragic is.

You can't look at it as only Dragic, why do I have to create an entire trade scenario for you. Of course Dragic wouldn't be the only piece.

C's really wouldn't go for Lillard. N.O has nothing to offer. Lakers could offer something nice. I don't think the suns would give up their top 4 pick, but you never know. 76'ers could grab him for sure.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 12:18 AM
Naw we need a pg for the future, so when Lbj can't put the entire team on his back anymore we will be their to step on his throat.

And when they get rid of Bosh contract, they will have the room to fit in those contracts. Pat will try to get two all star players in; because as soon as Bosh plays 25 games his money is back on are cap. So Pat has to aim high in this free agency.

Pat will be aiming for Hayward or Blake, and he will try to pull off a trade for an all star player, to have a chance at trying to sign a key free agent. It's all or nothing.

We have an all star level Pg at a below market level deal who just had his best season in the league. We arent going after a PG. If we dont go after a guy like Melo via trade, we will go after Hayward, Blake, and Ibaka in that order.

Haywards max starts at 31. Lillard is under contract for 26. Whiteside for 24. James Johnson will get around 13-15 million or so. That is 95 million. Already over the cap given who is on the team. Youre not going to both trade for a guy like Lillard AND get one of those guys.

And im not asking you to come up with a whole scenario, but we have nothing to offer for Lillard if Dragic is the best piece they are getting, and adding a guy like Whiteside would make us worse.

Only way we acquire a star via trade is if we can get him for pennies on the dollar, like Melo, because that team has no leverage.

And i have a very good feeling Cousins will be moved this offseason to fill out their roster better.

Dade County
04-14-2017, 01:10 AM
We have an all star level Pg at a below market level deal who just had his best season in the league. We arent going after a PG. If we dont go after a guy like Melo via trade, we will go after Hayward, Blake, and Ibaka in that order.

Haywards max starts at 31. Lillard is under contract for 26. Whiteside for 24. James Johnson will get around 13-15 million or so. That is 95 million. Already over the cap given who is on the team. Youre not going to both trade for a guy like Lillard AND get one of those guys.


Miami isn't going to Pay J Johnson 13-15mil... He gone, if he thinks he is getting that from the HEAT. And Miami would be crazy to offer him that.



And im not asking you to come up with a whole scenario, but we have nothing to offer for Lillard if Dragic is the best piece they are getting, and adding a guy like Whiteside would make us worse.

Like you have stated other teams can offer more; but once again, Dragic wouldn't be the only piece. Mia, 1st rd pick, Ty Johnson, Winslow, Dragic shipped to a 3rd team to get another 1st rd pick....etc

And Whiteside isn't going anywhere. He won't be apart of any trades, he is are center piece.



Only way we acquire a star via trade is if we can get him for pennies on the dollar, like Melo, because that team has no leverage.

We will see.

But once again Miami has trade chips. But of course they are teams out there that can offer better.



And i have a very good feeling Cousins will be moved this offseason to fill out their roster better.

Naw, they will build up the team and hope the league helps them out again LoL

I am telling you, they are going to trade their first rd pick. It's all or nothing for them. They need a better pg then Holiday, and they need 3 point shooters. They will be building team around Cuz & AD.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 08:49 AM
Miami isn't going to Pay J Johnson 13-15mil... He gone, if he thinks he is getting that from the HEAT. And Miami would be crazy to offer him that.



Like you have stated other teams can offer more; but once again, Dragic wouldn't be the only piece. Mia, 1st rd pick, Ty Johnson, Winslow, Dragic shipped to a 3rd team to get another 1st rd pick....etc

And Whiteside isn't going anywhere. He won't be apart of any trades, he is are center piece.



We will see.

But once again Miami has trade chips. But of course they are teams out there that can offer better.



Naw, they will build up the team and hope the league helps them out again LoL

I am telling you, they are going to trade their first rd pick. It's all or nothing for them. They need a better pg then Holiday, and they need 3 point shooters. They will be building team around Cuz & AD.

James Johnson is worth more than 13-15 million on the open market. He wont get that and i think he will stay with the heat for 10-12, but he is certainly worth that given his skill set in the modern nba and the way guys were paid last offseason.

the 14th pick, Tyler johnson's deal that is about to explode next season, winslow coming off an injury and still not knowing how to shoot, and Dragic at 31 isnt getting you anything close to what you think it is getting you. Whiteside would have to be included in any deal to acquire a superstar and we wont do that. Pat will add to the existing core.

Im saying NO should ttrade Cousins, I agree they wont. If I were their GM id see if I could get a significantly better deal than they gave up for Cousins and hope that you just traded Buddy Hield and a first round pick essentially for much better assets. That would be a net positive and would give them a more balanced team, which they need because they are completely capped out. A trade of somthing like Cousins to the Celtics for the nets first next year and Crowder and Smart or something like that would help them out a lot more and would be a huge win for them to essentially turn buddy hield and a pick into a net gain in assets.

Slug3
04-14-2017, 08:58 AM
Why would you want Melo is the better question. He's going downhill fast.

I personally don't want him on Miami, but I do think he has a game that would still transition with him in a few years when he gets older. But really at like 35/36 everyone just about start to drop off no matter who you are.

Slug3
04-14-2017, 09:01 AM
I mean Miami went 30-11 to finish the season. I think just look to pick up one superstar/star player and go from there. Hayward works for me. If JJ will stay for like 8-10 million then sign him back up as well.

I liked Dion, but I don't want them throwing a lot of money at him.

RowBTrice
04-14-2017, 09:10 AM
Agree he won't want to go to the Heat. Melo will only consider a contender and the Heat are not that.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 10:13 AM
Agree he won't want to go to the Heat. Melo will only consider a contender and the Heat are not that.

If the heat are able to get melo on the cheap for say Mcroberts' expiring contract next year and the 14th pick, that team is at the very least in the conversation in the east if he buys in and gets into shape like guys generally do in Miami due to the organizational structure and culture.

Dragic
Richardson/Tyler johnson
Melo
James Johnson (small ball 4 draymond type)
Whiteside

as a starting 5

with a bench of whichever of T Johnson or Richardson doesnt start, Winslow, Ellington, McGruder, Babbitt and then room to add veterans for the minimum is at least in the picture. Youre adding a guy in Melo who, while he has tailed off overall, still put up 22, 6 and 3 on decent percentages on a trainwreck of a franchise. If he were to get in shape, which this whole idea is premised on, that team isnt really missing anything.

That team has great shooting, a top 3-5 center, a very good to low level all star caliber PG, young cheap energy guys on very small contracts, and great defense both in the post and on the perimeter.

That is adding a star level talent that gives them the go to scorer they desperately needed on a team that played at a 60 win pace over the last half of the year. They wouldnt be the favorite, but the Bucks and Wizards are relying on the same team essentially because they are capped out, the Cavs need an overhaul to their second unit even though they would still be the favorite, and the raptors have question marks if they cant retain Ibaka. The celtics are going to be great again, but that heat team is definitely in the conversation in the top 4 of the east.

Melo has now gone from overrated to underrated due in most part because of the utter trainwreck of a team he plays for. Going to the heat with an organizational culture and structure that he has never been a part of would do wonders for his career, and Spo is one of the best coaches in the league at getting the most out of his players and getting players to play to their strengths.

Dade County
04-14-2017, 11:15 AM
@heat3x


I understand what you are saying, but Pat wouldn't give up a 1st rd pick for Melo. Because of Melo age and only 2yrs left on his contract. The 1st rd pick is a better asset.

If they could trade something else, like the Bosh contract or maybe a sign and trade sending Waiters to Ny; I can see the deal happening.

But like I have been saying, Pat has to land an all star player this off season; because if they can't trade Bosh and they end up releasing him; as soon as bosh plays 25 games, his contract is back on are cap. This means we are on lock down for 2 more season, not being able to really sign anyone of value.

So it's all or nothing. The way that you are thinking, is Pat can just stand pat and just add Melo. That isn't going to workout for us to well.

But you do make some good point.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 01:14 PM
@heat3x


I understand what you are saying, but Pat wouldn't give up a 1st rd pick for Melo. Because of Melo age and only 2yrs left on his contract. The 1st rd pick is a better asset.

If they could trade something else, like the Bosh contract or maybe a sign and trade sending Waiters to Ny; I can see the deal happening.

But like I have been saying, Pat has to land an all star player this off season; because if they can't trade Bosh and they end up releasing him; as soon as bosh plays 25 games, his contract is back on are cap. This means we are on lock down for 2 more season, not being able to really sign anyone of value.

So it's all or nothing. The way that you are thinking, is Pat can just stand pat and just add Melo. That isn't going to workout for us to well.

But you do make some good point.

Pat would do that in a split second, not sure what Pat Riley you have watched operate the last 20 years down here. The 14th pick is a nothing pick. Pat will ship that pick for Melo faster than you can blink.

RCarlson85
04-14-2017, 01:59 PM
What did you think of the heat signing Dion Waiters?

Again my whole premise of this entire possibility is that i'd much rather trade a most likely meaningless first round pick at number 14 and mcroberts salary and get melo for 30 million for 2 years rather than overpay what Hayward is actually worth and give him 34 million over 5 years or give Waiters 15 million over 5 years. And Pat Riley would too. He goes big all the time if it is ever possible.

The Heat signing of Waiters was great because it was a super cheap 1 year deal in a year where no one really expected anything out of the Heat. It was a no lose situation in my mind. If he did well, great then we got a player who performed well on the cheap. If it didn't work out, they could have just put him on the bench because he was so cheap and on a 1 year deal. The contract was everything.

Waiters was also still young and it's possible he just needed to be put into the right position to flourish. That seemed to at least somewhat be the case based on his success with the Heat this year.

Melo is different because everyone knows what he is. He's an old vet that's not going to change at this point in his career. He's also getting paid a lot of money still with 2 yrs/$50+ mil left on his deal. I would rather have Waiters at $15 mil a year than Melo with his contract at this point. I would also take Hayward at this point over Melo even if he costs more than Melo's remaining deal.

Dade County
04-14-2017, 03:15 PM
Also, if Miami did get Melo, he would be are stretch 4. So i think they would let J J walk.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 03:23 PM
The Heat signing of Waiters was great because it was a super cheap 1 year deal in a year where no one really expected anything out of the Heat. It was a no lose situation in my mind. If he did well, great then we got a player who performed well on the cheap. If it didn't work out, they could have just put him on the bench because he was so cheap and on a 1 year deal. The contract was everything.

Waiters was also still young and it's possible he just needed to be put into the right position to flourish. That seemed to at least somewhat be the case based on his success with the Heat this year.

Melo is different because everyone knows what he is. He's an old vet that's not going to change at this point in his career. He's also getting paid a lot of money still with 2 yrs/$50+ mil left on his deal. I would rather have Waiters at $15 mil a year than Melo with his contract at this point. I would also take Hayward at this point over Melo even if he costs more than Melo's remaining deal.

Im cool with that, it's ok to disagree. I just dont feel comfortable paying Hayward as if he is a superstar when he is not that. He is very good, dont get me wrong, but im from the school of how teams like the Pats and Spurs and other good franchises across sports run their team. Value in contracts is more important than anything. Hayward is just not a 30+ million a year guy. There are very few of those guys in the entire league. That doesnt make him bad, i'm just of the opinion that it is bad value.


Part of the reason the heat were so good down the stretch of the year was because it could be argued that every single one of the players in their rotation was good value for the salary they received. Dragic's contract now in comparison to those around the league is great. 17 million for him is a relative steal. Whiteside has lived up to his contract. 23 million is a lot but, and it is really quite awesome to see, he has grown up tremendously over the past year or 2 and while he is still a goofball, he is a good kind of goofball and not a knucklehead that he seemed to be the past year or 2. I think an incredibly awesome thing to see this year was his blocks going down. Why? Because his overall defense has improved a lot. He was going after blocks and stats and it was in favor of good team defense.

Waiters was great value at 4 million. JJ was great value around the same number. Tyler Johnson at 5 million for the next 2 years is a steal before his deal increases. Richardson, McGruder, Reed, Babbitt all for under 2 million are great value. I dont even think the heat intended to do that, I think they were just trying to see what stuck last offseason, but the value for their contracts was huge in how effective the team was as a whole.

All in all i'd be perfectly ok with Hayward, but i'd prefer a short term 2 year melo chance of getting him back in top shape and having him buy in to heat culture rather than giving Hayward 33 million a year for the next 5 years. And I dont want waiters back at all for anything more than like 10 million, and even then we have such an abundance of talent at PG/SG in Dragic, Richardson, T Johnson, McGruder, ellington, etc, that id rather reinvest that money in a SF or PF. Waiters is the stripper, a great time, but you dont marry her.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 03:25 PM
Also, if Miami did get Melo, he would be are stretch 4. So i think they would let J J walk.

I think, and obviously this is a hypothetical, JJ and him would be a great tandem at the 3 and 4 together. they both can play and guard both positions. Plus I think JJ is such a great fit in the modern NBA that if he is at a reasonable contract we better not let him go. That kind of game is so hard to find offensively with a guy with his size and defensively he is the embodiment of miami heat basketball.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 03:33 PM
Barry Jackson‏Verified account @flasportsbuzz 23m23 minutes ago
More
For Heat fans wanting Melo,WaitersAND JJ,trading Winslow&No.1 pick wouldn't create enough space.Getting NY to take McBob MIGHT not be enough


Barry Jackson‏Verified account @flasportsbuzz 3m3 minutes ago
More
...And per multiple reports in NY in recent months, Carmelo also gets trade kicker of 15 percent of remaining $54M owed,unless he waives it

It is possible. Also, i'd prefer to keep Winslow on his rookie deal rather than trading him also just to keep Waiters for more than 10 million a year.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-14-2017, 03:39 PM
I still see the Love-Melo deal happening. Knicks adding a piece.

rhino17
04-14-2017, 03:39 PM
I would take Hayward 10/10 times over Melo right now, not even close.

WaDe03
04-14-2017, 04:15 PM
Phil just said Melo would be better off leaving. He'll trade him this summer.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 04:17 PM
Phil just said Melo would be better off leaving. He'll trade him this summer.

Man Phil is absolutely ensuring that Melo is going to **** over the franchise by only accepting a trade to one place just to screw them over. Listen, im not the biggest fan of Melo, but the way Phil has treated him the last year or 2 has been just wrong. Especially because Phil did this to himself. There was no reason to give Melo a NTC, he was coming back regardless.

Slug3
04-14-2017, 04:52 PM
@heat3x


I understand what you are saying, but Pat wouldn't give up a 1st rd pick for Melo. Because of Melo age and only 2yrs left on his contract. The 1st rd pick is a better asset.

If they could trade something else, like the Bosh contract or maybe a sign and trade sending Waiters to Ny; I can see the deal happening.

But like I have been saying, Pat has to land an all star player this off season; because if they can't trade Bosh and they end up releasing him; as soon as bosh plays 25 games, his contract is back on are cap. This means we are on lock down for 2 more season, not being able to really sign anyone of value.

So it's all or nothing. The way that you are thinking, is Pat can just stand pat and just add Melo. That isn't going to workout for us to well.

But you do make some good point.

I am not sure if you know Pat at all then, he 100% would give up first round picks for star players. Did it with an aging Shaq. Pat doesn't like to build that much through the draft as he does with big free agent signings as well as trades. Honestly Wade is the ONLY draft pick Riley has gotten right.

Butler was ok
Beasley sucked
Winslow - Still young but I already feel he won't amount to much but a great D guy

Charles Smith
Tim James
Dorell Wright
Wayne Simien
Daquan Cook (Drafted Jason Smith but traded for Cook)

Do you really know who any of these guys are or anything great they did? At best they were journeymen.

Slug3
04-14-2017, 04:54 PM
Also, if Miami did get Melo, he would be are stretch 4. So i think they would let J J walk.

I don't think JJ is better than Melo, but I think he fits our system better and would prefer to keep him and look to get Hayward instead.

Dade County
04-14-2017, 06:47 PM
I think the reason why Phil is doing all of this, it because players like Meo, Lbj & Wade do things their way. Phil is playing a psychological game with Melo right now.

Phil knows that Melo will just try to select 2 or 3 teams maybe and say I only want to go here, those teams will low ball Knicks. So in return Phil, is creating a situation (media circus), where Melo will have to deal with the negativity.

Phil wants more options, I don't know if he is going about this the right way; but I do believe Melo will break first and he will be shipped somewhere he didn't plan on at first.



I don't think JJ is better than Melo, but I think he fits our system better and would prefer to keep him and look to get Hayward instead.

Agreed.

Dade County
04-14-2017, 06:51 PM
I am not sure if you know Pat at all then, he 100% would give up first round picks for star players. Did it with an aging Shaq.

Melo is not that star player... Of course Pat would send draft picks out for proven pl;ayers, but not for Melo at 32yrs old, and has a trade kicker that brings his salary to like 34mil!!! LoL



Pat doesn't like to build that much through the draft as he does with big free agent signings as well as trades. Honestly Wade is the ONLY draft pick Riley has gotten right.

Butler was ok
Beasley sucked
Winslow - Still young but I already feel he won't amount to much but a great D guy

Charles Smith
Tim James
Dorell Wright
Wayne Simien
Daquan Cook (Drafted Jason Smith but traded for Cook)

Do you really know who any of these guys are or anything great they did? At best they were journeymen.

Yeah, Pat doesn't really hit a lot when it comes to are 1st rd picks.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 07:09 PM
Melo is not that star player... Of course Pat would send draft picks out for proven pl;ayers, but not for Melo at 32yrs old, and has a trade kicker that brings his salary to like 34mil!!! LoL



Yeah, Pat doesn't really hit a lot when it comes to are 1st rd picks.

Melo still averaged 22 6 and 3 and shot 36% from 3 on a trainwreck of a franchise who didnt want him. He would be Melo in miami if he buys in an gets in better shape. Also, melo can waive that trade kicker if he wants and if he doesnt it would be 30, not 34. Also, he is at this point better than hayward still as a pure scorer and Hayward would actually cost more and for 3 more years.

heat3X
04-14-2017, 07:11 PM
I think the reason why Phil is doing all of this, it because players like Meo, Lbj & Wade do things their way. Phil is playing a psychological game with Melo right now.

Phil knows that Melo will just try to select 2 or 3 teams maybe and say I only want to go here, those teams will low ball Knicks. So in return Phil, is creating a situation (media circus), where Melo will have to deal with the negativity.

Phil wants more options, I don't know if he is going about this the right way; but I do believe Melo will break first and he will be shipped somewhere he didn't plan on at first.




Agreed.

You're giving Phil a lot more credit than he deserves. It's like people saying Trump has this master plan when in reality he's making **** up as he goes along. Phil is trying to get Melo to waive his NTC no matter what so they can move his salary and build around porzingis.

In no circumstance does phil have any leverage, and todays idiotic comments further exacerbate that issue. They are gonna move him to shed his salary.

GiantsSwaGG
04-14-2017, 08:10 PM
I think the reason why Phil is doing all of this, it because players like Meo, Lbj & Wade do things their way. Phil is playing a psychological game with Melo right now.

Phil knows that Melo will just try to select 2 or 3 teams maybe and say I only want to go here, those teams will low ball Knicks. So in return Phil, is creating a situation (media circus), where Melo will have to deal with the negativity.

Phil wants more options, I don't know if he is going about this the right way; but I do believe Melo will break first and he will be shipped somewhere he didn't plan on at first.




Agreed.

I agree but again he's going at it the wrong way and he's creating a dark cloud above the organization. Phil is smart as **** but dude needs to realize this isn't the 90's/00's... but I do hate how players dictate power in the league reasons why him and LeBron beefing but build Melos value not hurt it. I mean Melo was facing negatively before the drama now it's the opposite, he's actually getting sympathy. I can't help but feel sorry for him and I hate his guts!!!

GiantsSwaGG
04-14-2017, 08:11 PM
You're giving Phil a lot more credit than he deserves. It's like people saying Trump has this master plan when in reality he's making **** up as he goes along. Phil is trying to get Melo to waive his NTC no matter what so they can move his salary and build around porzingis.

In no circumstance does phil have any leverage, and todays idiotic comments further exacerbate that issue. They are gonna move him to shed his salary.

Phil hates Trump

RCarlson85
04-15-2017, 06:56 PM
Im cool with that, it's ok to disagree. I just dont feel comfortable paying Hayward as if he is a superstar when he is not that. He is very good, dont get me wrong, but im from the school of how teams like the Pats and Spurs and other good franchises across sports run their team. Value in contracts is more important than anything. Hayward is just not a 30+ million a year guy. There are very few of those guys in the entire league. That doesnt make him bad, i'm just of the opinion that it is bad value.


Part of the reason the heat were so good down the stretch of the year was because it could be argued that every single one of the players in their rotation was good value for the salary they received. Dragic's contract now in comparison to those around the league is great. 17 million for him is a relative steal. Whiteside has lived up to his contract. 23 million is a lot but, and it is really quite awesome to see, he has grown up tremendously over the past year or 2 and while he is still a goofball, he is a good kind of goofball and not a knucklehead that he seemed to be the past year or 2. I think an incredibly awesome thing to see this year was his blocks going down. Why? Because his overall defense has improved a lot. He was going after blocks and stats and it was in favor of good team defense.

Waiters was great value at 4 million. JJ was great value around the same number. Tyler Johnson at 5 million for the next 2 years is a steal before his deal increases. Richardson, McGruder, Reed, Babbitt all for under 2 million are great value. I dont even think the heat intended to do that, I think they were just trying to see what stuck last offseason, but the value for their contracts was huge in how effective the team was as a whole.

All in all i'd be perfectly ok with Hayward, but i'd prefer a short term 2 year melo chance of getting him back in top shape and having him buy in to heat culture rather than giving Hayward 33 million a year for the next 5 years. And I dont want waiters back at all for anything more than like 10 million, and even then we have such an abundance of talent at PG/SG in Dragic, Richardson, T Johnson, McGruder, ellington, etc, that id rather reinvest that money in a SF or PF. Waiters is the stripper, a great time, but you dont marry her.

I get where you're coming from with Melo and I honestly could see it happening. Pat always wants to go big and get the superstars, even if Melo isn't quite on that level anymore. I still just have serious doubts about Melo at this point. A big part of the reason the Heat were so fun to watch this year and turned things around is because they played unselfishly and really bought into the team game. They played for each other and not for themselves. That's what I'm not sure Melo can do. I think Hayward would fit better into that mold and would fit better into the unselfish team game the Heat played this year while also providing a big scoring boost that the Heat could use.

LA_Raiders
04-15-2017, 11:12 PM
He will go to Atlanta, Boston or Washington.

Dade County
04-16-2017, 12:41 PM
Bosh for Melo LoL

I think Both sides would jump at that LMAO

MILLERHIGHLIFE
04-16-2017, 05:54 PM
Read on twitter Marc Berman from NY Post mentioned something about Melo and family be okay with LA. Guess Clippers or nothing? Not sure about Lakers. Melo is 33 and getting like $26.2M next season. Then player option of $27.9M after that. Besides no trade clause on top of it all. Not sure what the Clippers would offer up. Wasn't the old rumor at trade deadline was Rivers and Crawford? Knicks didn't want that. Clippers couldn't find a third team to take on Crawford.

Also not so sure Phil Jackson would eat dead weight of Mozgov or Deng from Lakers with a guy on rookie contact tossed in as the main piece. Especially since Knicks have dead weight Noah. The no trade clause holds up plenty of other teams. But at age 33 and Melo still thinks he's #1 option on all teams. Nah. Most teams will bulk and say no pick and just salary fillers. Only team I would think of offer a late first would be the Blazers since they have 3 of them picks. But doubt Lala wants Portland.

Dade County
04-16-2017, 06:13 PM
Read on twitter Marc Berman from NY Post mentioned something about Melo and family be okay with LA. Guess Clippers or nothing? Not sure about Lakers. Melo is 33 and getting like $26.2M next season. Then player option of $27.9M after that. Besides no trade clause on top of it all. Not sure what the Clippers would offer up. Wasn't the old rumor at trade deadline was Rivers and Crawford? Knicks didn't want that. Clippers couldn't find a third team to take on Crawford.

Also not so sure Phil Jackson would eat dead weight of Mozgov or Deng from Lakers with a guy on rookie contact tossed in as the main piece. Especially since Knicks have dead weight Noah. The no trade clause holds up plenty of other teams. But at age 33 and Melo still thinks he's #1 option on all teams. Nah. Most teams will bulk and say no pick and just salary fillers. Only team I would think of offer a late first would be the Blazers since they have 3 of them picks. But doubt Lala wants Portland.

They would have plenty of offense, but I don't see Melo waiving his NTC to play there.

HeartOfStarks
04-16-2017, 06:52 PM
They would have plenty of offense, but I don't see Melo waiving his NTC to play there.

I've brought this up in the Knicks forum previously. Probably won't happen but I think a 3 way trade where Lakers get Melo, Portland gets Randle and either Mozgov or Deng, and Knicks get Evan Turner and Portland's 15th pick could be sort of a win-win-win for all 3 teams depending on how everything plays out.

Lakers can draft Ball and go into next season with Ball-DLo-Ingram-Melo, maybe try to do the banana boat thing there as well or add Paul George to play next to Melo the following year. Portland gets Randle (who they could see as a stronger potential prospect than what might be there at 15, and could help more right away) and loses Turner, Knicks shed Melo and hopefully pick up an OG Anunoby at 15, start adding some defensive 19-20 year olds (maybe drafting Fox at 6).

Again likely won't happen but I'd take it and be happy about it as a Knicks fan.

KnickNyKnick
04-16-2017, 07:13 PM
Melo is probably headed to LA next season to play with Paul. But if Cleveland doesn't win the title i see him being traded there. I think its very possible for the Cavs to be his landing spot if things to sour this post season.

Gimme Korver a Pick and someone to fill the trade.

Slug3
04-17-2017, 09:38 AM
Melo is probably headed to LA next season to play with Paul. But if Cleveland doesn't win the title i see him being traded there. I think its very possible for the Cavs to be his landing spot if things to sour this post season.

Gimme Korver a Pick and someone to fill the trade.

Kover is free agent so he most likely wouldn't be signed and traded.

Tristan
JR smith
Shumpert
Frye

It would probably have to be 2 of those and a pick, but really they might just ask for Love in return.

Wade n Fade
04-17-2017, 09:52 AM
Don't want Melo. Though I have seen intriguing options come up lately. Whiteside + McBob for the Knicks #7 pick and Melo. Deal makes less sense for Miami because a young 7"0 gets replaced with an aging "superstar." Though Miami could send off Goran Dragic, get a first round pick for him and maybe a prospect, to clear up space to get CP3.

If the Heat sign CP3, Wade on the cheap, get Melo, have multiple firsts to work with, then talk about retooling, not rebuilding. Too many what ifs there. Wade is the only realistic banana boat guy to end up in Miami in 2017 or beyond.

I expect to sign Gordon Hayward though. Forget all the Utah max deal talk.

Hawkeye15
04-17-2017, 12:33 PM
Am I the only one who could care less about Melo, or his future?

effen5
04-17-2017, 01:44 PM
Carmelo Anthony the Jay Cutler of the NBA

Tg11
04-17-2017, 01:55 PM
Melo the only teams that I could see him going to are the Lakers, Clippers or Cavaliers if anything if he waives his no trade clause it will be for one of these 3 teams if anything...I certainly don't see him going to the Heat

IKnowHoops
04-17-2017, 01:59 PM
Carmelo Anthony the Jay Cutler of the NBA

Melo >>>>>>Cutler
Lebron>>>Brady

FOXHOUND
04-17-2017, 02:01 PM
Am I the only one who could care less about Melo, or his future?

:laugh2:

No, I wouldn't say so. There's Phil Jackson, for starters. :D

Tg11
04-17-2017, 02:02 PM
If Melo goes to the Cavs it will be to unite with LeBron since he and LeBron are BFFs in real life...imagine a team with Melo, LeBron, Kyrie and Love yeah they would be even more stacked...that is the plan Melo either goes there or he goes to the Lakers to team up with PG-13 aka Paul George since George obviously is going to the Lakers in the off-season and if he does you bring Melo there too

IKnowHoops
04-17-2017, 02:08 PM
If Melo goes to the Cavs it will be to unite with LeBron since he and LeBron are BFFs in real life...imagine a team with Melo, LeBron, Kyrie and Love yeah they would be even more stacked...that is the plan Melo either goes there or he goes to the Lakers to team up with PG-13 aka Paul George since George obviously is going to the Lakers in the off-season and if he does you bring Melo there too

They should just both go to Cleveland. Would be a much more fun and polarizing season for them. Much more winning. And Championships. They could probably get two maybe four if they both get there next season. Go to Lakers and never do anything other than loose badly or go to Cleveland and play in the championship that year. Easy answer isn't it? Or go to LA and loose and ruin your brand? A la Dwight Howard? They need both sing 2-3 year deals with the Cavs and go win rings.

IKnowHoops
04-17-2017, 02:09 PM
Gonna b a fun offseason. If the Cavs don't win the ring this year, I can definitely see them getting Paul George at the very least. Bron will have his Pippen.

FOXHOUND
04-17-2017, 02:18 PM
Melo is not going to the Lakers, who are just as far from contending as the Knicks are lol. Clippers or Cavs are going to be his top two choices.

HeartOfStarks
04-17-2017, 03:25 PM
Don't want Melo. Though I have seen intriguing options come up lately. Whiteside + McBob for the Knicks #7 pick and Melo. Deal makes less sense for Miami because a young 7"0 gets replaced with an aging "superstar." Though Miami could send off Goran Dragic, get a first round pick for him and maybe a prospect, to clear up space to get CP3.

If the Heat sign CP3, Wade on the cheap, get Melo, have multiple firsts to work with, then talk about retooling, not rebuilding. Too many what ifs there. Wade is the only realistic banana boat guy to end up in Miami in 2017 or beyond.

I expect to sign Gordon Hayward though. Forget all the Utah max deal talk.

This is a joke right?

FlashBolt
04-17-2017, 03:31 PM
This is a joke right?

He's saying it's intriguing because they can possibly get Melo+CP3+wade and then maybe the banana boat squad. I don't think he's legitimately saying a Melo for Whiteside trade is good. The potential of having CP3 in there because Melo and then maybe Wade is definitely attractive. I can definitely see LeBron wanting to return if they get the banana boat squad in.

LeBron
Melo
CP3
Wade

They would be undersized and lack defense but still the best team in the East by far.

HeartOfStarks
04-17-2017, 03:43 PM
He's saying it's intriguing because they can possibly get Melo+CP3+wade and then maybe the banana boat squad. I don't think he's legitimately saying a Melo for Whiteside trade is good. The potential of having CP3 in there because Melo and then maybe Wade is definitely attractive. I can definitely see LeBron wanting to return if they get the banana boat squad in.

LeBron
Melo
CP3
Wade

They would be undersized and lack defense but still the best team in the East by far.

I meant a joke from the Knicks perspective. I know the past has been a free for all Run The Assets on the clueless Knicks but we're not trading a number 6 or 7 pick in this loaded draft for freaking Mcbob and Whiteside, get real. As many mistakes as Phil has made, and he's certainly made some, he's not giving out top draft picks like free candy; those days are gone.

Dade County
04-17-2017, 03:51 PM
Don't want Melo. Though I have seen intriguing options come up lately. Whiteside + McBob for the Knicks #7 pick and Melo. Deal makes less sense for Miami because a young 7"0 gets replaced with an aging "superstar." Though Miami could send off Goran Dragic, get a first round pick for him and maybe a prospect, to clear up space to get CP3.

If the Heat sign CP3, Wade on the cheap, get Melo, have multiple firsts to work with, then talk about retooling, not rebuilding. Too many what ifs there. Wade is the only realistic banana boat guy to end up in Miami in 2017 or beyond.

I expect to sign Gordon Hayward though. Forget all the Utah max deal talk.


:mad::guns::punish::body-check::referee::burn:


If Miami was starting completely over, then I can see them going for a top 8 pick; but not taking on Melo contract. I could also see them trading Dragic for N.O 1st rd pick, if they was completely rebuilding...

So they could have 3, 1st rd picks in the top 14 of the draft. But Pat isn't going in that direction.

effen5
04-17-2017, 04:02 PM
Melo >>>>>>Cutler
Lebron>>>Brady

Melo = Cutler
Lebron = Brady

FlashBolt
04-17-2017, 04:34 PM
Melo and his wife are separated. New York Knicks is cancer.

WaDe03
04-17-2017, 04:53 PM
Melo is free to go wherever he pleases now.

NYKnickFanatic
04-17-2017, 04:56 PM
Melo and his wife are separated. New York Knicks is cancer.

I've always said to myself that they would separate at some point.

Slug3
04-17-2017, 05:16 PM
I've always said to myself that they would separate at some point.

She was the only reason I thought he had a good chance at staying with the Knicks. I think he is gone now.

GiantsSwaGG
04-17-2017, 05:54 PM
She was the only reason I thought he had a good chance at staying with the Knicks. I think he is gone now.

Something tells my Phil's behind this

_KB24_
04-17-2017, 07:01 PM
Can't help but feel bad for Melo. I do think the news of him and his wife splitting allows him to make more of a 'basketball move' so to speak and widens his range of teams he would be open towards a trade to.

WaDe03
04-18-2017, 10:35 AM
They separated because he got a stripper pregnant.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
04-18-2017, 11:34 AM
Can't help but feel bad for Melo. I do think the news of him and his wife splitting allows him to make more of a 'basketball move' so to speak and widens his range of teams he would be open towards a trade to.


Yeah with the Lala separation. Does this mean Melo would consider anyone besides Clippers or Cavs? One article before the separation mentioned the family be okay with LA. Not sure if Lakers were included or just a renewal of the old rumors of Clippers had interests prior.

Dade County
04-18-2017, 11:47 AM
They separated because he got a stripper pregnant.


We'll if this is true, biblically she can't leave him. Melo needs to repent and she needs go into the bible and learn a few things.

Because it's one thing she leaves him, but what if she gets married again or have sex with another man; she's going to in a world of trouble when The Most High brings out his judgment. I hope God sends someone her way to in lighting her.


Basketball stuff now...

Melo contract is just too much, and it's only a couple of teams that can actually truly make it to the Final's with him, but those teams are already good enough to make it to the Final's without him.

SO even if Melo goes to a teams like the Wiz, Raps, Boston Portland, & Clips... Those teams still won't beat the Cav's or GS when all is said and done. But if he is just looking to contend, well for sure he can end his career in some good heated playoff match ups.

But until he can shake that loser label, thats how i view him.

IKnowHoops
04-19-2017, 02:31 AM
Melo = Cutler
Lebron = Brady

Melo = Romo

IKnowHoops
04-19-2017, 02:35 AM
Melo needs to go be on his own and dedicate himself to getting into peak physical condition while honing his game. He has bad work ethic/diet as you can see by his doe body. He needs to hit the gym, the track, weights and work and come in ready to ball.

Quinnsanity
04-19-2017, 03:45 AM
How can we get IKnowHoops, that Mets/Isles dude, CousinsEvansDuo and Europangpilgrim in the same thread? Would a thread like "LeBron is going to the Nets because the league wants to screw the Kings" work?

One Nut Kruk
04-19-2017, 11:12 AM
Am I the only one who could care less about Melo, or his future?

I would hope not.

And this dude that wants Melo in Miami so bad is really hell bent on Melo getting into shape. At this stage of his career, good luck with that.

LA4life24/8
04-19-2017, 12:10 PM
Has melo ever said he wanted to be in miami? Cuz last time i checked he has that NTC still and if he doesnt wanna go there destiny can blow him lol.

Slug3
04-19-2017, 04:28 PM
Has melo ever said he wanted to be in miami? Cuz last time i checked he has that NTC still and if he doesnt wanna go there destiny can blow him lol.

He has pretty much so far said he doesnt want to be anywhere but NY. But with his wife no longer in the picture and with the Knicks seeming to blow it up he could open up his NTC to go to any team he wants to. I mean Phil has pretty much said to him that they don't want him. I wouldn't want to go back to that.

I really see him going to
LA to play with CP3
Clev to play with Bron
Bos - Had a great regular season, but hurting at the moment.
and maybe even Chi if Wade and Butler were to stay.

But really everything is kind of just pointing to him going to the Clippers.

LA4life24/8
04-21-2017, 04:15 PM
He has pretty much so far said he doesnt want to be anywhere but NY. But with his wife no longer in the picture and with the Knicks seeming to blow it up he could open up his NTC to go to any team he wants to. I mean Phil has pretty much said to him that they don't want him. I wouldn't want to go back to that.

I really see him going to
LA to play with CP3
Clev to play with Bron
Bos - Had a great regular season, but hurting at the moment.
and maybe even Chi if Wade and Butler were to stay.

But really everything is kind of just pointing to him going to the Clippers.

If cleveland loses the chip i see em offering love for melo straight up.

Idk lac has anything to give up for melo without giving one of their big 3 up

Those are the 2 most likely scenarios. I dont see boston giving up anythibg for him really

heat3X
04-21-2017, 07:56 PM
If cleveland loses the chip i see em offering love for melo straight up.

Idk lac has anything to give up for melo without giving one of their big 3 up

Those are the 2 most likely scenarios. I dont see boston giving up anythibg for him really

The Cavs trading Love for Melo makes 0 sense. I dont know why this keeps getting brought up. The Cavs are one of the best offensive teams in the league. That is not their problem. Their problem is they are horrific defensively. Trading Love for Melo is a trade involving no good defensive players, but it makes the Cavs much smaller and makes them worse defensively. IF they can maybe somehow combine other contracts of role players for Melo I guess that somehow makes sense, but any moves they make this offseason will be related to getting better defensively.