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kdspurman
04-13-2017, 11:27 AM
Thread to talk about the NBA playoffs in general

Vee-Rex
04-13-2017, 04:37 PM
Fun Fact:

The culmination of team shooting percentages in the entire regular season is and has always been higher than the culmination of team shooting percentages in the playoffs that year. Generally more star-laden teams have a smaller differential while the less star-laden teams see the biggest drop.

Consider that the 16 playoff teams are always better than the 14 non-playoff teams and the FG%s in the playoffs obviously don't include those 14 non-playoff teams.

Yep, the playoffs shows true colors.

MJNetsIsles
04-13-2017, 05:43 PM
Anyone but the Celtics

Scoots
04-13-2017, 07:05 PM
Based on health this year the playoff matchups will be MUCH better all over the place.

tredigs
04-13-2017, 11:00 PM
Fun Fact:

The culmination of team shooting percentages in the entire regular season is and has always been higher than the culmination of team shooting percentages in the playoffs that year. Generally more star-laden teams have a smaller differential while the less star-laden teams see the biggest drop.

Consider that the 16 playoff teams are always better than the 14 non-playoff teams and the FG%s in the playoffs obviously don't include those 14 non-playoff teams.

Yep, the playoffs shows true colors.

Links/sources please.

Vee-Rex
04-14-2017, 04:42 PM
Links/sources please.

No links or sources, just my own math. Admittedly I've only done it for the past 10 years but I've looked further and the numbers and percentages comparing regular season and playoffs look the same as they do in the past 10 years (stretching back towards '96). But I'll post the last 10 years:

2015-16

Reg Season FG: 94065/208049 = 45.21%

Playoffs FG: 6286/14295 = 43.97%

2014-15

Reg Season FG: 92287/205570 = 44.89%

Playoffs FG: 5964/13705 = 43.51%

2013-14

Reg Season FG: 93379/204172 = 45.73%

Playoffs FG: 6472/14239 = 45.45%

2012-13

Reg Season FG: 91282/201609 = 45.27%

Playoffs FG: 5953/13496 = 44.10%

2011-12

Reg Season FG: 72218/161225 = 44.79%

Playoffs FG: 5801/13240 = 43.81%

2010-11

Reg Season FG: 91624/199790 = 45.86%

Playoffs FG: 5502/12531 = 43.90%

2009-10

Reg Season FG: 92730/200989 = 46.13%

Playoffs FG: 5778/12758 = 45.28%

2008-09

Reg Season FG: 91310/199054 = 45.87%

Playoffs FG: 5932/13143 = 45.13%

2007-08

Reg Season FG: 91669/200501 = 45.71%

Playoffs FG: 5933/13354 = 44.42%

2006-07

Reg Season FG: 89860/196075 = 45.82%

Playoffs FG: 5410/12236 = 44.21%

The closest is 2013-14, but even that year the playoffs doesn't eclipse the regular season in FG%. That's also the year the Spurs and Heat both shot nearly 50% in the playoffs while both being in the top 3 in field goals attempted (1. Spurs 2. OKC 3. Miami). So it was a bit of an anomaly playoffs IMO.

Even though the percentages aren't enormous, remember that it's the cumulation of tens and hundreds of thousands of field goals. 46% vs. 45% is a HUGE difference. Also, remember that the 16 playoff teams will naturally shoot a better FG% than if you include the 14 non-playoff teams in that group. Yet, the playoffs FG% is ALWAYS lower.

The teams that had the smallest drop (or gain) were typically the teams with multiple stars.

I think it speaks extremely loudly about how much different the playoffs are. It's not only tighter defenses but game-planning and scheming. It truly does separate the pretenders from the contenders.

Scoots
04-15-2017, 10:33 AM
I would be surprised if the playoff FG% didn't go down. With the defenses getting actual game plans and practice focused on one opponent over a series, it should go down, even with the "best teams" being in the playoffs.

tredigs
04-15-2017, 07:55 PM
No links or sources, just my own math. Admittedly I've only done it for the past 10 years but I've looked further and the numbers and percentages comparing regular season and playoffs look the same as they do in the past 10 years (stretching back towards '96). But I'll post the last 10 years:

2015-16

Reg Season FG: 94065/208049 = 45.21%

Playoffs FG: 6286/14295 = 43.97%

2014-15

Reg Season FG: 92287/205570 = 44.89%

Playoffs FG: 5964/13705 = 43.51%

2013-14

Reg Season FG: 93379/204172 = 45.73%

Playoffs FG: 6472/14239 = 45.45%

2012-13

Reg Season FG: 91282/201609 = 45.27%

Playoffs FG: 5953/13496 = 44.10%

2011-12

Reg Season FG: 72218/161225 = 44.79%

Playoffs FG: 5801/13240 = 43.81%

2010-11

Reg Season FG: 91624/199790 = 45.86%

Playoffs FG: 5502/12531 = 43.90%

2009-10

Reg Season FG: 92730/200989 = 46.13%

Playoffs FG: 5778/12758 = 45.28%

2008-09

Reg Season FG: 91310/199054 = 45.87%

Playoffs FG: 5932/13143 = 45.13%

2007-08

Reg Season FG: 91669/200501 = 45.71%

Playoffs FG: 5933/13354 = 44.42%

2006-07

Reg Season FG: 89860/196075 = 45.82%

Playoffs FG: 5410/12236 = 44.21%

The closest is 2013-14, but even that year the playoffs doesn't eclipse the regular season in FG%. That's also the year the Spurs and Heat both shot nearly 50% in the playoffs while both being in the top 3 in field goals attempted (1. Spurs 2. OKC 3. Miami). So it was a bit of an anomaly playoffs IMO.

Even though the percentages aren't enormous, remember that it's the cumulation of tens and hundreds of thousands of field goals. 46% vs. 45% is a HUGE difference. Also, remember that the 16 playoff teams will naturally shoot a better FG% than if you include the 14 non-playoff teams in that group. Yet, the playoffs FG% is ALWAYS lower.

The teams that had the smallest drop (or gain) were typically the teams with multiple stars.

I think it speaks extremely loudly about how much different the playoffs are. It's not only tighter defenses but game-planning and scheming. It truly does separate the pretenders from the contenders.

Nice thanks. Yeah it feels like common logic but I've never seen the #'s ran out.

kobe4thewinbang
04-17-2017, 02:59 AM
My thoughts on all the Game 1s:

Rockets/Thunder 1-0, Rockets
Westbrook forgot to get gas this day. With such a scoring-deprived team (didn't even crack 90 points), he's gotta bring that fire. At least 10 assists, okay? Somebody else has to score...something.
Enes Kanter looking at his teammates like "Y'all really expect me to guard Harden? Me? Come on!"
Steven Adams needs to do more than play hockey with Patrick Beverley (who almost outscored Westbrook).
Meanwhile, Harden is La-La-Land'ing it with his step-back shuffle. This series might be less than we thought.
Prediction: Rockets in 6 games, after Westbrook reignites his team, but eventually is exhausted.

Warriors/Blazers 1-0, Warriors
Well, that happened. Durant had 30, Steph had 30-ish, Draymond had the Blazers under his foot, Klay didn't have his contacts on, and someone told CJ McCollum and Damian Lillard they were all the Blazers had to offer.
Respect to those two, but dang, big boy has to play for Portland. Not Greg Oden, either. Can't rely on the refs.
Watch out for this being the best scoring performance by Dame + CJ in the series. They usually brick it up.
Draymond hiding that secret concept of defense. Blazers might wanna Patriots it and steal the playbook.
Prediction: Warriors in 4 games, unless Nurkic can return and maybe help win one in Portland.

Utah Jazz/LA Clippers 1-0, Jazz
Guard Joe Johnson. He's Joe Johnson, not Joe Schmoe.
Clippers in general need to play better defense and also learn how to score Clippers-numbers.
When Gobert goes down that early in the game, there is no excuse to score under 100 at home!
The Jazz could easily win this series, especially after starting 1-0 on the road. Clippers seem tuned out.
Prediction: Jazz in 6 (Game 6 will be in Utah and they're now up 1-0).

Grizzlies/Spurs 1-0, Spurs
Wow, the Spurs go on some big runs. Reminds me of my Spurs in 2K. Ah. And that defense!
Grizzlies have a shot, but the Spurs' skillful and careful play is gorgeous. Good showing by Marc Gasol.
As usual the Grizzlies lack any raw offensive talent that can overcome solid defense by the opposition.
Prediction: Spurs in 5, Grizzlies might steal a game, but still outmatched in scoring and whole package

Cavaliers/Pacers 1-0, Cavs
Cavaliers defense is truly horrible. They were neck and neck with the frickin' Pacers for most of the game.
Their defense let the Pacers back into the game after closing the 3rd quarter strongly (double digit lead).
They were lucky as hell that CJ Miles missed that game-winner, even if PG-13 should've got the ball.
Pacers have a puncher's chance because the Cavaliers defense is that bad that Hill almost won the game!
Prediction: Cavaliers in 6. I want to say 5 but this game showed that Cleveland has some real chinks.
I hope that if this series goes six games that it knocks some sense into their defense; otherwise they're done.

Bucks/Raptors 1-0, Bucks
Did anyone see this coming? Raptors defense was nonexistent. Guys just standing by, shrugging at each other.
Meanwhile, The Greek Freek put on a show, Thon Maker showed promise, and nobody but DeRozan came to play. Hopefully Ibaka is okay and the Raptors bounce back because they can play strong when they want to.
Prediction: Raptors in 6, as the Bucks should get another win if they keep playing like that.

Wizards/Hawks 1-0, Wizards
John Wall has arrived, and Dwight Howard barely had 7 points.
Marcin Gortat shoved off Paul Millsap like a pest after making a skillful, patient dunk to seal the win.
Wizards could be the dark horse. They showed a fighting mean streak at home. Wall is ready to lead.
Hawks are "meh" at this point. Odd that this team had a historic season, what, last season or so?
Where are the Hawks that edged the Cavaliers a few days ago?
Look for a Millsap exit if they lose this round, and it looks that way if Shroeder 3's are their only hope.
Prediction: Wizards in 5, cuz Hawks should win one in Atlanta...maybe

Celtics/Bulls 1-0, Bulls (say what?)
Isaiah Thomas, albeit bereaved, was balling here. He just doesn't have enough help.
You saw it when he had to single-handedly bring his team back into the game in the final seconds.
A slick pass to the teammate who awkwardly passes the ball back for I.T. to shoot a deeeeep 3PTer. Hmm.
Meanwhile, the Bulls are tough. They have a closer in D-Wade. Rondo can trick that ball out. Butler with 30!
Boston better get it together. Horford acting like 19 points is going to save the whales. Could easily be an upset.Prediction: Bulls in 6, after a big win by Celtics in Game 5. And 14 more points by Robin Lopez.#SHAQTINaFOOL

Vee-Rex
04-17-2017, 01:07 PM
Nice list, Kobe4.

1. Learned nothing here. I think the Rox will win in 5. I think OKC wins one in OKC in a game where the Rox shoot badly.

2. Blazers will probably steal one in Portland with or without Nurkic IMO. Warriors defense seemed to zero in on McCollum and Lillard - gave up a lot of open shots to role-players. It just so happens that the Portland backcourt were hitting their tough shots along with it.

3. Clippers looked worse than I thought... but I just don't see how they would lose a series vs. Utah without Gobert. I think LAC wins game 2 and steals one in Utah, then go on to close 'em out. But I'm not counting Utah out either. Will be interesting to see.

4. Spurs too strong for Grizzlies. I picked Spurs in 5 out of respect for the Grizzlies but this is the most likely series to end in a sweep, IMO.

5. I'm picking Cavs in 5. The Cavs defense is super inconsistent and will always give up easy baskets here and there - but the Pacers scored on many tough/needed baskets. Cavs were winning like 6-10 points the entire game and would miss a barrage of wide open shots that could've broke the game open, only to have Indiana cut it back down. I think game 2 we see a better representation of where these teams stand - though I got Indiana winning game 3.

6. I picked Raptors in 6... and it's hard to stay on that. This is probably a 7 game series. Game 2 will decide everything though and if Toronto loses then it's over for them. I think Giannis is gonna put a major stamp on this series and catapult himself into superstar-dom. Lowry will obviously have a better game but Milwaukee is full of confidence now.

7. I think Hawks win game 2. They're fairly decent road team. Problem is they're a pretty bad home team and will certainly drop at least 1 game at home. Still, I think their starters play a little better and this series goes 6 or 7. My pick was Wizards in 7.

8. Celtics are in major trouble IMO. Even if they win game 2 AND take 1 game in Chicago, they'd still be tied 2-2 with a pivotal game 5 that Chicago could certainly win. IMO, Bulls are winning this series.

FlashBolt
04-17-2017, 03:16 PM
I didn't see much wrong with Cavs defense. Pacers made difficult shots that I don't see them usually making regardless of defense. I think Cavs offense struggled primarily with Kyrie taking too many shots. They had a lack of ball movement with guys who should be taking more shots. J.R. and Korver need more opportunities if the Cavs want to truly dominate. No reason Kyrie should be taking that many more shots than everyone else.. he's a great scorer but c'mon, 27 shots? And I don't know why they moved away from Kevin Love but he was pretty effective down the post in the first quarter.

Takeaway from Hawks vs Wizards is that Howard sucks.

I already said Celtics were going to have a difficult battle because Bulls are too experienced and have the best player/best playoff performer in Butler/Wade. Boston is just too inexperienced. I'm not sure who wins but with IT dealing with his sister's death, I might side with the Bulls.

Raptors are a joke. I am confident Bucks beats them in 6.

No one can guard Kawhi. Spurs should win easily.

Blazers can't win without Jokic. They have no interior presence and the other guys are MIA.

We can't beat Houston. we lack scoring and are too dependent on RWB that it's easy to plan against him in the playoffs.

Clippers are chokers and Blake Griffin/DJ are very overrated.

eDush
04-17-2017, 05:10 PM
I didn't see much wrong with Cavs defense. Pacers made difficult shots that I don't see them usually making regardless of defense. I think Cavs offense struggled primarily with Kyrie taking too many shots. They had a lack of ball movement with guys who should be taking more shots. J.R. and Korver need more opportunities if the Cavs want to truly dominate. No reason Kyrie should be taking that many more shots than everyone else.. he's a great scorer but c'mon, 27 shots? And I don't know why they moved away from Kevin Love but he was pretty effective down the post in the first quarter.

Takeaway from Hawks vs Wizards is that Howard sucks.

I already said Celtics were going to have a difficult battle because Bulls are too experienced and have the best player/best playoff performer in Butler/Wade. Boston is just too inexperienced. I'm not sure who wins but with IT dealing with his sister's death, I might side with the Bulls.

Raptors are a joke. I am confident Bucks beats them in 6.

No one can guard Kawhi. Spurs should win easily.

Blazers can't win without Jokic. They have no interior presence and the other guys are MIA.

We can't beat Houston. we lack scoring and are too dependent on RWB that it's easy to plan against him in the playoffs.

Clippers are chokers and Blake Griffin/DJ are very overrated.

:laugh: Lol your analysis of the Clippers game is a joke and those two players are not overrated. Clippers win this series easily with Gobert hurt - DJ will have a field day in the paint. JJ had a great game off the bench.

Everyone knows Howard doesn't show up in big games - Wiz should win easily.

Boston win series as they are the better team with better coaching imo. Wade is the X factor to decide the Bulls fate with his experience and leadership to maybe pull an upset but just don't see it happening.

Raptors are NOT a joke and still pick them to win this series but an upset is possible.

If there is one team that can contain Kawhi, it's Memphis and I expect them to play better with their defensive mentality. Spurs should win series decisively.

Jokic plays for the Nuggets but he would've help the Blazers if they had traded for him. Dubs should win series decisively. CJ will not be in that crazy shooting zone in every game in this series.

Rockets Thunder matchup is the 2nd best in the first round imho as they should make it a good close series with Westy and Harden stirring the pot up :nod:

Saving the best matchup for last. This will be a close series, much closer than many sports analysts think. Pacers with George will give the Cavs all they got and the most likely big upset, if any, in the first round... :clap:

Vee-Rex
04-17-2017, 06:06 PM
:laugh: Lol your analysis of the Clippers game is a joke and those two players are not overrated. Clippers win this series easily with Gobert hurt - DJ will have a field day in the paint. JJ had a great game off the bench.

Everyone knows Howard doesn't show up in big games - Wiz should win easily.

Boston win series as they are the better team with better coaching imo. Wade is the X factor to decide the Bulls fate with his experience and leadership to maybe pull an upset but just don't see it happening.

Raptors are NOT a joke and still pick them to win this series but an upset is possible.

If there is one team that can contain Kawhi, it's Memphis and I expect them to play better with their defensive mentality. Spurs should win series decisively.

Jokic plays for the Nuggets but he would've help the Blazers if they had traded for him. Dubs should win series decisively. CJ will not be in that crazy shooting zone in every game in this series.

Rockets Thunder matchup is the 2nd best in the first round imho as they should make it a good close series with Westy and Harden stirring the pot up :nod:

Saving the best matchup for last. This will be a close series, much closer than many sports analysts think. Pacers with George will give the Cavs all they got and the most likely big upset, if any, in the first round... :clap:


Damn bro you kinda went ham on every last one of his points. I hope you're right about the Rockets and Thunder... I just don't see how OKC can keep up.

eDush
04-17-2017, 06:37 PM
:laugh: Lol your analysis of the Clippers game is a joke and those two players are not overrated. Clippers win this series easily with Gobert hurt - DJ will have a field day in the paint. JJ had a great game off the bench.

Everyone knows Howard doesn't show up in big games - Wiz should win easily.

Boston win series as they are the better team with better coaching imo. Wade is the X factor to decide the Bulls fate with his experience and leadership to maybe pull an upset but just don't see it happening.

Raptors are NOT a joke and still pick them to win this series but an upset is possible.

If there is one team that can contain Kawhi, it's Memphis and I expect them to play better with their defensive mentality. Spurs should win series decisively.

Jokic plays for the Nuggets but he would've help the Blazers if they had traded for him. Dubs should win series decisively. CJ will not be in that crazy shooting zone in every game in this series.

Rockets Thunder matchup is the 2nd best in the first round imho as they should make it a good close series with Westy and Harden stirring the pot up :nod:

Saving the best matchup for last. This will be a close series, much closer than many sports analysts think. Pacers with George will give the Cavs all they got and the most likely big upset, if any, in the first round... :clap:

Damn bro you kinda went ham on every last one of his points. I hope you're right about the Rockets and Thunder... I just don't see how OKC can keep up.It wasn't intended but how can anyone be so wrong on the Clippers matchup. I don't like them but they are one team I rather avoid in the playoffs - them being overrated is so over overstated. And the Cavs are wearing out Lebron since they know they can't win without him even with Kyrie n Love in the game. Whose really coaching them anyways or are they just winging it.

I'm sure of it cause the Rockets don't play defense particularly their best player...they just outscore opponents. Thunder emphasizes defense while Westy provides most of the offense. And sometimes that's enough once he goes ham on them back in OKC to make this a series worth watching :clap:

kdspurman
04-17-2017, 09:49 PM
Nice breakdowns of the game 1 matchups :up:

MILLERHIGHLIFE
04-18-2017, 12:21 PM
I didn't see much wrong with Cavs defense. Pacers made difficult shots that I don't see them usually making regardless of defense. I think Cavs offense struggled primarily with Kyrie taking too many shots. They had a lack of ball movement with guys who should be taking more shots. J.R. and Korver need more opportunities if the Cavs want to truly dominate. No reason Kyrie should be taking that many more shots than everyone else.. he's a great scorer but c'mon, 27 shots? And I don't know why they moved away from Kevin Love but he was pretty effective down the post in the first quarter.

Takeaway from Hawks vs Wizards is that Howard sucks.

I already said Celtics were going to have a difficult battle because Bulls are too experienced and have the best player/best playoff performer in Butler/Wade. Boston is just too inexperienced. I'm not sure who wins but with IT dealing with his sister's death, I might side with the Bulls.

Raptors are a joke. I am confident Bucks beats them in 6.

No one can guard Kawhi. Spurs should win easily.

Blazers can't win without Jokic. They have no interior presence and the other guys are MIA.

We can't beat Houston. we lack scoring and are too dependent on RWB that it's easy to plan against him in the playoffs.

Clippers are chokers and Blake Griffin/DJ are very overrated.

Howard's been a lazy bum. Isn't rebounding like he should. Even Shaq pointed out on TNT that Howard let a bunch of rebounds get away that he could of easily had.

kobe4thewinbang
04-19-2017, 01:49 AM
Nice list, Kobe4.

1. Learned nothing here. I think the Rox will win in 5. I think OKC wins one in OKC in a game where the Rox shoot badly.

2. Blazers will probably steal one in Portland with or without Nurkic IMO. Warriors defense seemed to zero in on McCollum and Lillard - gave up a lot of open shots to role-players. It just so happens that the Portland backcourt were hitting their tough shots along with it.

3. Clippers looked worse than I thought... but I just don't see how they would lose a series vs. Utah without Gobert. I think LAC wins game 2 and steals one in Utah, then go on to close 'em out. But I'm not counting Utah out either. Will be interesting to see.

4. Spurs too strong for Grizzlies. I picked Spurs in 5 out of respect for the Grizzlies but this is the most likely series to end in a sweep, IMO.

5. I'm picking Cavs in 5. The Cavs defense is super inconsistent and will always give up easy baskets here and there - but the Pacers scored on many tough/needed baskets. Cavs were winning like 6-10 points the entire game and would miss a barrage of wide open shots that could've broke the game open, only to have Indiana cut it back down. I think game 2 we see a better representation of where these teams stand - though I got Indiana winning game 3.

6. I picked Raptors in 6... and it's hard to stay on that. This is probably a 7 game series. Game 2 will decide everything though and if Toronto loses then it's over for them. I think Giannis is gonna put a major stamp on this series and catapult himself into superstar-dom. Lowry will obviously have a better game but Milwaukee is full of confidence now.

7. I think Hawks win game 2. They're fairly decent road team. Problem is they're a pretty bad home team and will certainly drop at least 1 game at home. Still, I think their starters play a little better and this series goes 6 or 7. My pick was Wizards in 7.

8. Celtics are in major trouble IMO. Even if they win game 2 AND take 1 game in Chicago, they'd still be tied 2-2 with a pivotal game 5 that Chicago could certainly win. IMO, Bulls are winning this series.Thanks, man! Scratch what I said about the Celtics. Holy crap. Game 2 wasn't even close. I just got home from work, so didn't get to watch, but jeez! I didn't see the #1 seed dropping two straight. Do you have any idea what's wrong with them?

First Take was talking about how pathetic it was that OKC's bigs got out-rebounded by Ryan Anderson alone. Sure, Westbrook is the only one that had a good game, but you at least gotta win the boards.

If Jazz have lost Gobert, that might kill their chances, no doubt. Clippers got Game 2 tonight, so we'll see. I am all for the Clippers getting their act together.

Raptors edged the Bucks tonight, so might be a tighter series. I'm just kind of stumped by the Raptors.

I felt bad for the Blazers, but they're just outmatched. If their defense was better and those two guys were still lighting it up, it'd be a series. Pacers I also feel bad for. They lost two close ones in Cleveland, probably demoralized now unless the return home rejuvenates them. At least Lance has gotten back in rhythm.

Wizards got this. I think they pose the greatest challenge to the Cavs, like I said before. I see some fire there.

And the Grizzlies, yeah. I've never seen such good defense by the Spurs. It's making me think they could upset the Warriors that way. They completely neutralized the Grizzlies. Now, the Grizz are not the Dubs, but it was still impressive. Kawhi can still underwhelm, but he's on fire at the moment and mostly has embraced the #1 role.

IKnowHoops
04-19-2017, 02:16 AM
Barring Injury

A few groups of people feel this way.

People who have a deep rooted dislike for Lebron.
A few Homers who would love to see Bron go down so they don't have to face him.
Those who don't grasp how much different his playoff and regular season games are.
Those holding on to hope.


Cavs looked just as bad last year entering the playoffs. Bron is this teams heartbeat, they care as he cares, and they go as he goes. Defensive intensity will pick up and there defense will get much better. Bron is at the point where he doesn't even get up for the first round of the playoffs. He is in the process of gearing up, and so is the team. You guys are crazy if you think any team in the east can defeat the Cavs when Bron goes monster. His impact on the game gets crazy when he is giving 100% on both sides of the court...thats just not going to happen until it needs to happen. Bron only gives what he needs to so that he can give it all when he has to.

Quinnsanity
04-19-2017, 03:40 AM
Learn grammar.

FOXHOUND
04-19-2017, 04:11 AM
Well, of course they are - the east is garbage. Whether or not they are in for a curb stomping like the Heat received from the Spurs in 2014, is the real question.

burtgummer
04-19-2017, 04:38 AM
Barring Injury

A few groups of people feel this way.

People who have a deep rooted dislike for Lebron.
A few Homers who would love to see Bron go down so they don't have to face him.
Those who don't grasp how much different his playoff and regular season games are.
Those holding on to hope.


Cavs looked just as bad last year entering the playoffs. Bron is this teams heartbeat, they care as he cares, and they go as he goes. Defensive intensity will pick up and there defense will get much better. Bron is at the point where he doesn't even get up for the first round of the playoffs. He is in the process of gearing up, and so is the team. You guys are crazy if you think any team in the east can defeat the Cavs when Bron goes monster. His impact on the game gets crazy when he is giving 100% on both sides of the court...thats just not going to happen until it needs to happen. Bron only gives what he needs to so that he can give it all when he has to.
Does Bron Bron know you have this sick crush on him?

tp13baby
04-19-2017, 08:29 AM
Yeah never doubt Lebron but the Celtics and Toronto don't look legit. Where is the poster that told us they were legit contenders?

Vee-Rex
04-19-2017, 01:12 PM
I found this article very interesting. Fun read:

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-playoffs-coaches-analysts-explain-playoff-cliches-ec1074245a89

The playoffs are another beast for real.

Edit: Here's an excerpt:

"Kyrie Irving and DeMar DeRozan are the same player.

Irving shoots more accurately and creates more often, while DeRozan bulldozes his way to the line at a much higher clip. Defensively, they are mediocre at best, and crippling liabilities at worst. DeRozan plays in a languid staccato of drawn-out jabs, while Irving effectively dances along the border of looseness and carelessness with each possession. But even though their games lead down different paths, their production reaches the same point: Per Basketball-Reference, Irving and DeRozan have produced almost the same number of win shares in 2017.

Zoom out far enough, and there’s nothing separating the two.

But the increased attention to the playoffs zooms us right back in: It puts every team, every player, every ref, every broadcaster, and every courtside cherub under the microscope. And with a focused lens hovering over their play, Irving shines, while DeRozan combusts."

"“[In the 2015 Western Conference semifinals], Steve Kerr just didn’t guard [Grizzlies shooting guard] Tony Allen, but he put [center Andrew] Bogut on him,” McHale said. “And Bogut was just a roamer. And that gave them a whole different look defensively.”

If a big man can’t defend against a smaller lineup, he’ll see his playing time dwindle — as happened with Bogut in the Finals over the past two seasons. And if a big man can score but can’t anchor a defense, he might have a place on the second unit of a top team in the regular season, but in the playoffs he’ll get stapled to the bench.
“If you’re [Golden State’s] JaVale McGee, you can’t play defense against a good team,” Honkasalo said. “You don’t understand all the nuances of where you’re supposed to stand. When he plays against the well-prepared, good team, that just doesn’t work at all.”

Playoff defense is more creative and less forgiving. Even though the worst offenses in the league don’t make it beyond the 82nd game, efficiency and scoring rates tend to decrease in the postseason. Catch-and-shoot scorers like Kyle Korver and Klay Thompson no longer have as much space for their jump shots, and their percentages drop once the calendar hits mid-April.

Yet while the threat Korver and Thompson pose still creates space for an offense, an inefficient scorer like DeRozan crumples amid the increased pressure. This year, over 90 percent of his shots have come from within the 3-point arc, so DeRozan has to make those shots at an incredibly high rate in order to still be an effective scorer. It’s the whole “three is more than two” thing. He pulls off that tight-rope act in the regular season, but it’s just harder to make shots in the playoffs, and so if DeRozan’s field goal percentage drops even just a few points, he becomes a net negative on offense. In the playoffs, he shoots a full 5 percentage points worse from the field.

Eight years into his career, it’s clear that DeRozan can be the lead scorer on a great offensive team — during the regular season. Once the playoffs start, though, his game looks completely out of place.


If DeRozan is the prototypical regular-season player, then Irving was made for the playoffs.
“[Defenses] just know whatever play is going to come,” Carlesimo said. “You know what I mean? They’re more wired in. If there is a call, they know what’s going to happen, so it comes down to more execution and individual creativity than it does what a team is doing.”

No one in the NBA is better at combining individual creativity and execution than Irving. Among players with at least 1.5 isolation possessions per game, almost no one scores at a higher rate (1.12 per possession) than the Cleveland point guard. And among players with at least 200 iso possessions this season, no one else breaks 1.05. (DeRozan, at 1.02, comes in a distant third behind Irving and Damian Lillard.) Irving’s combination of individual efficiency and raw production puts him on his own level.

During the regular season last year, Cleveland’s net rating was slightly better with Irving off the court. Once the playoffs hit, though, they were better off with him in the game by 1.5 points per possession.

Some of that is likely due to a more dialed-in and more prepared defense that’s able to carry some of Irving’s inadequacies on that end — and maybe his own defensive performance improves too — but it’s also because there’s no adjustment to be made against an incredible one-on-one scorer.

“He’s not good at the stuff that can be taken away,” Honkasalo said. In other words, he’s good at the one thing a great defense is helpless against.

By the time teams reach the Finals, if defensive game plans are fully optimized and each team has planned for every set the opponent throws at it, sometimes there is no series-deciding adjustment to make. In that case, an efficient isolation scorer serves as a fail-safe for offenses that get diminished by prepared and aggressive postseason defenses. Last year, it was enough to give the Cavs one final push over the wall."

Bruno
04-19-2017, 02:28 PM
Kawhi has a win share through two games.

accounts for a little under 10% of this total playoff win shares through 75+ games.

JordansBulls
04-20-2017, 11:55 PM
Chicago has always been the best threat to the Cavs for the playoffs because of Wade, Jimmy and Rondo all playoff vets.

eDush
04-21-2017, 12:43 AM
Chicago has always been the best threat to the Cavs for the playoffs because of Wade, Jimmy and Rondo all playoff vets.Wade has always lead by example and has help Butler to play under playoff pressure as their go to star. The Celtic big signing in Horford has delivered for the most part as expected but that is not enough against the Bulls which is somewhat of a surprise. I expected more out of this group but I'm sure Atlanta wish they have Horford instead of Howard in the playoffs:nod:

FlashBolt
04-22-2017, 02:50 PM
I found this article very interesting. Fun read:

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-playoffs-coaches-analysts-explain-playoff-cliches-ec1074245a89

The playoffs are another beast for real.

Edit: Here's an excerpt:

"Kyrie Irving and DeMar DeRozan are the same player.

Irving shoots more accurately and creates more often, while DeRozan bulldozes his way to the line at a much higher clip. Defensively, they are mediocre at best, and crippling liabilities at worst. DeRozan plays in a languid staccato of drawn-out jabs, while Irving effectively dances along the border of looseness and carelessness with each possession. But even though their games lead down different paths, their production reaches the same point: Per Basketball-Reference, Irving and DeRozan have produced almost the same number of win shares in 2017.

Zoom out far enough, and there’s nothing separating the two.

But the increased attention to the playoffs zooms us right back in: It puts every team, every player, every ref, every broadcaster, and every courtside cherub under the microscope. And with a focused lens hovering over their play, Irving shines, while DeRozan combusts."

"“[In the 2015 Western Conference semifinals], Steve Kerr just didn’t guard [Grizzlies shooting guard] Tony Allen, but he put [center Andrew] Bogut on him,” McHale said. “And Bogut was just a roamer. And that gave them a whole different look defensively.”

If a big man can’t defend against a smaller lineup, he’ll see his playing time dwindle — as happened with Bogut in the Finals over the past two seasons. And if a big man can score but can’t anchor a defense, he might have a place on the second unit of a top team in the regular season, but in the playoffs he’ll get stapled to the bench.
“If you’re [Golden State’s] JaVale McGee, you can’t play defense against a good team,” Honkasalo said. “You don’t understand all the nuances of where you’re supposed to stand. When he plays against the well-prepared, good team, that just doesn’t work at all.”

Playoff defense is more creative and less forgiving. Even though the worst offenses in the league don’t make it beyond the 82nd game, efficiency and scoring rates tend to decrease in the postseason. Catch-and-shoot scorers like Kyle Korver and Klay Thompson no longer have as much space for their jump shots, and their percentages drop once the calendar hits mid-April.

Yet while the threat Korver and Thompson pose still creates space for an offense, an inefficient scorer like DeRozan crumples amid the increased pressure. This year, over 90 percent of his shots have come from within the 3-point arc, so DeRozan has to make those shots at an incredibly high rate in order to still be an effective scorer. It’s the whole “three is more than two” thing. He pulls off that tight-rope act in the regular season, but it’s just harder to make shots in the playoffs, and so if DeRozan’s field goal percentage drops even just a few points, he becomes a net negative on offense. In the playoffs, he shoots a full 5 percentage points worse from the field.

Eight years into his career, it’s clear that DeRozan can be the lead scorer on a great offensive team — during the regular season. Once the playoffs start, though, his game looks completely out of place.


If DeRozan is the prototypical regular-season player, then Irving was made for the playoffs.
“[Defenses] just know whatever play is going to come,” Carlesimo said. “You know what I mean? They’re more wired in. If there is a call, they know what’s going to happen, so it comes down to more execution and individual creativity than it does what a team is doing.”

No one in the NBA is better at combining individual creativity and execution than Irving. Among players with at least 1.5 isolation possessions per game, almost no one scores at a higher rate (1.12 per possession) than the Cleveland point guard. And among players with at least 200 iso possessions this season, no one else breaks 1.05. (DeRozan, at 1.02, comes in a distant third behind Irving and Damian Lillard.) Irving’s combination of individual efficiency and raw production puts him on his own level.

During the regular season last year, Cleveland’s net rating was slightly better with Irving off the court. Once the playoffs hit, though, they were better off with him in the game by 1.5 points per possession.

Some of that is likely due to a more dialed-in and more prepared defense that’s able to carry some of Irving’s inadequacies on that end — and maybe his own defensive performance improves too — but it’s also because there’s no adjustment to be made against an incredible one-on-one scorer.

“He’s not good at the stuff that can be taken away,” Honkasalo said. In other words, he’s good at the one thing a great defense is helpless against.

By the time teams reach the Finals, if defensive game plans are fully optimized and each team has planned for every set the opponent throws at it, sometimes there is no series-deciding adjustment to make. In that case, an efficient isolation scorer serves as a fail-safe for offenses that get diminished by prepared and aggressive postseason defenses. Last year, it was enough to give the Cavs one final push over the wall."

I don't trust Kyrie to replicate that same performance in the Finals, though. He was great but I'm willing to bet we see KD on Kyrie rather than Curry when needed. Klay is too flat-footed to guard Kyrie and doesn't have the length to make up for that disadvantage. KD has been shown to be a really good defender and his height/length will make it near impossible for Kyrie to drill a fadeaway. Which is why his ISO game might come back haunting the Cavs and a legitimate reason Kyrie needs to start playing with intent to distribute rather than ISO every play.

krazylegz
04-23-2017, 02:34 PM
with how bad defenses are now...teams should select their best 3-pt shooter and have a contest like the all star game to decide teams wins and losses....it would be more entertaining

Tg11
04-23-2017, 02:43 PM
Cavaliers if they win tonight and sweep the Pacers then they at least get a week or so of rest but either way the Pacers simply just can't compare or compete

Hopper15
04-23-2017, 03:10 PM
I don't trust Kyrie to replicate that same performance in the Finals, though. He was great but I'm willing to bet we see KD on Kyrie rather than Curry when needed. Klay is too flat-footed to guard Kyrie and doesn't have the length to make up for that disadvantage. KD has been shown to be a really good defender and his height/length will make it near impossible for Kyrie to drill a fadeaway. Which is why his ISO game might come back haunting the Cavs and a legitimate reason Kyrie needs to start playing with intent to distribute rather than ISO every play.

KD will not be guarding Kyrie lol

Tg11
04-23-2017, 03:14 PM
If the Raptors can somehow win their series against Milwaukee then they would have to face Cleveland again in the playoffs except that this time they would have to face them in the second round and no way Raptors can beat Cleveland especially if they are having such a tough time against Milwaukee

eDush
04-23-2017, 04:27 PM
I don't trust Kyrie to replicate that same performance in the Finals, though. He was great but I'm willing to bet we see KD on Kyrie rather than Curry when needed. Klay is too flat-footed to guard Kyrie and doesn't have the length to make up for that disadvantage. KD has been shown to be a really good defender and his height/length will make it near impossible for Kyrie to drill a fadeaway. Which is why his ISO game might come back haunting the Cavs and a legitimate reason Kyrie needs to start playing with intent to distribute rather than ISO every play.

KD will not be guarding Kyrie lolNot too many can guard Kyrie when he's hot but KD with his long arms would help make it somewhat harder but Kyrie can score on almost anyone...I seen it :(

Tg11
04-23-2017, 04:31 PM
Cleveland are repeating as NBA Champions I just know it

eDush
04-23-2017, 04:34 PM
If the Raptors can somehow win their series against Milwaukee then they would have to face Cleveland again in the playoffs except that this time they would have to face them in the second round and no way Raptors can beat Cleveland especially if they are having such a tough time against MilwaukeeHow the Raptors fare against the Bucks will have no bearing on the Cavs since they obviously play a different styles where match up factors in greatly than their outcome with Milwaukee :nod:

Tg11
04-23-2017, 04:38 PM
Yeah and so far Milwaukee has been the superior team defensively on the defensive glass

Hopper15
04-23-2017, 07:47 PM
Not too many can guard Kyrie when he's hot but KD with his long arms would help make it somewhat harder but Kyrie can score on almost anyone...I seen it :(

That has nothing to do with it because he'll be defending Lebron most of the series.

Scoots
04-23-2017, 08:57 PM
That has nothing to do with it because he'll be defending Lebron most of the series.

I doubt it.

tredigs
04-23-2017, 10:36 PM
Cleveland are repeating as NBA Champions I just know it

Not a ****ing chance in hell. KD or not.

Tg11
04-23-2017, 10:45 PM
If not Cleveland then it will be Golden State but if any team could eliminate either Golden State or Cleveland then it will be something but which teams in the East or West can take them out realistically?

tredigs
04-23-2017, 11:32 PM
If not Cleveland then it will be Golden State but if any team could eliminate either Golden State or Cleveland then it will be something but which teams in the East or West can take them out realistically?

SAS has a prayer. Cleveland is so bad these days I don't rule out Milwaukee or Washington. Sleeper is Utah. Very scary when healthy and I could see a 2-2 if GS is injured and complacent.

Saddletramp
04-24-2017, 04:42 AM
Not a ****ing chance in hell. KD or not.

Speaks volumes.

tredigs
04-24-2017, 06:24 AM
Speaks volumes.
Geauh rahx!

Vee-Rex
04-24-2017, 09:17 AM
Cleveland are repeating as NBA Champions I just know it

:hi5:

Vee-Rex
04-24-2017, 09:19 AM
Not a ****ing chance in hell. KD or not.

https://youtu.be/Lf2P3b13Eoc

tredigs
04-24-2017, 10:14 AM
I'm 50/50 on the Cavs coming out of the East if we're being serious and realistic here. Lebron is playing good, but this is not a championship level team. I would bet the Jazz over them in a series in a heartbeat if that opportunity presented itself.

Vee-Rex
04-24-2017, 11:03 AM
I'm 50/50 on the Cavs coming out of the East if we're being serious and realistic here. Lebron is playing good, but this is not a championship level team. I would bet the Jazz over them in a series in a heartbeat if that opportunity presented itself.

I disagree with every single sentence.

I can see the East challenging Cleveland a little more but other than Washington, who will truly do that? Milwaukee minus Jabari Parker just isn't the same and the defensive strategy utilized by Toronto to shut Giannis down (packing the paint) would be easily replicated. Boston would likely get swept, and Lolwry + DeRozan look to be their exact same inconsistent selves, minus a big man who can provide as much impact as Biyombo did in the ECF to steal them two wins (yes, I am fully aware of the Tucker/Ibaka additions and Norman Powell's impact).

As far as Washington goes - get your hopes up all you want but I see a team that isn't much different than previous years. Even if they manage to match starting units with Cleveland, we run LeBron + bench vs. opponent's bench and they'd get massacred. They just wouldn't hold up over a 7-game series. They don't have a single person on their roster that can even make it difficult for LeBron, no one that can defend him the way Paul George did.

Indiana has been kicking our ***** over the past few years and are a dominant home team - yet we still swept them and were leading by double digits late in 3/4 games of the games. We were down 26 in the first half on the road in game 3 - with a ton of hot shooting from the Pacers, and still managed to come back. Dudes wanna look at that as a knock on Cleveland and to some degree it is but you also cannot ignore what happened in the 2nd half. That's not really normal and shows a team that is capable of competing with anyone.

As to your last point - I think it'd be foolish to take Utah in a heartbeat. Otherwise, I have no problem with leaning towards Utah. Their ceiling is high and if fully healthy they're probably a top 4 team in the league. Going with Utah isn't really saying much (but they gotta get past the Clippers first). I'd just be wary of picking an underdog vs. LeBron. 2011 Mavs/Heat LeBron is long gone.

Bosston
04-24-2017, 11:05 AM
The NBA playoffs have become a foul shooting contest... April baseball is more entertaining at this point.

Vee-Rex
04-24-2017, 11:09 AM
The NBA playoffs have become a foul shooting contest... April baseball is more entertaining at this point.

Yeah I'm pretty shocked at how much the whistle is being blown.

The play where guys (like Harden, Lou Williams, IT, PG13) stop immediately after running around the screen and flail their arms on a shot attempt while hoping the defender makes a little contact is cheesy af. I don't blame them for doing it and there's some fouls in there but sometimes there's virtually no contact and I wish the refs would be better at seeing it.

mightybosstone
04-24-2017, 11:30 AM
Not a ****ing chance in hell. KD or not.

A lot of people said the same thing a year ago when the Warriors jumped out to that 3-1 lead in the Finals. Never say "never" in professional sports. I thought you would have learned that lesson by now.

mightybosstone
04-24-2017, 11:33 AM
Yeah I'm pretty shocked at how much the whistle is being blown.

The play where guys (like Harden, Lou Williams, IT, PG13) stop immediately after running around the screen and flail their arms on a shot attempt while hoping the defender makes a little contact is cheesy af. I don't blame them for doing it and there's some fouls in there but sometimes there's virtually no contact and I wish the refs would be better at seeing it.
As a Rockets fan, even I'm against this foul resulting in three free throws. I think it should be a foul, but not in the act of shooting, and the league should seriously look at this play in the offseason.

That being said, I don't think the players deserve hate for this. They're taking advantage of a play that can get them three free throws and help their team win games. That's just smart basketball.

tredigs
04-24-2017, 11:41 AM
I disagree with every single sentence.

I can see the East challenging Cleveland a little more but other than Washington, who will truly do that? Milwaukee minus Jabari Parker just isn't the same and the defensive strategy utilized by Toronto to shut Giannis down (packing the paint) would be easily replicated. Boston would likely get swept, and Lolwry + DeRozan look to be their exact same inconsistent selves, minus a big man who can provide as much impact as Biyombo did in the ECF to steal them two wins (yes, I am fully aware of the Tucker/Ibaka additions and Norman Powell's impact).

As far as Washington goes - get your hopes up all you want but I see a team that isn't much different than previous years. Even if they manage to match starting units with Cleveland, we run LeBron + bench vs. opponent's bench and they'd get massacred. They just wouldn't hold up over a 7-game series. They don't have a single person on their roster that can even make it difficult for LeBron, no one that can defend him the way Paul George did.

Indiana has been kicking our ***** over the past few years and are a dominant home team - yet we still swept them and were leading by double digits late in 3/4 games of the games. We were down 26 in the first half on the road in game 3 - with a ton of hot shooting from the Pacers, and still managed to come back. Dudes wanna look at that as a knock on Cleveland and to some degree it is but you also cannot ignore what happened in the 2nd half. That's not really normal and shows a team that is capable of competing with anyone.

As to your last point - I think it'd be foolish to take Utah in a heartbeat. Otherwise, I have no problem with leaning towards Utah. Their ceiling is high and if fully healthy they're probably a top 4 team in the league. Going with Utah isn't really saying much (but they gotta get past the Clippers first). I'd just be wary of picking an underdog vs. LeBron. 2011 Mavs/Heat LeBron is long gone.
If the entire 2nd half of the season was not enough for you to question the Cavs as being championship caliber, a series in which they struggled mightily (despite pulling off the sweep in the end) against arguably the worst team in the playoffs should have. I'd still bet on the Cavs making the Finals, but both Milwaukee and Washington will offer a host of problems for them should they meet. The Jazz are currently at full strength for the first time this season, and again I would not think twice about picking them in a matchup versus Cleveland. Ditto Spurs and Warriors obviously. Houston would be an interesting matchup, though I do think Cleveland comes out on top in that one.

tredigs
04-24-2017, 11:43 AM
A lot of people said the same thing a year ago when the Warriors jumped out to that 3-1 lead in the Finals. Never say "never" in professional sports. I thought you would have learned that lesson by now.

I ended up being wrong and owned it. This Warriors team is better than last seasons version, and this Cavs team is worse. If both go into the Finals at full strength (presuming both make it, which is no guarantee on either end) and there are no lengthy supsensions or injuries, the Warriors will beat them, and it likely will be a quick kill.

Vee-Rex
04-24-2017, 12:06 PM
That being said, I don't think the players deserve hate for this. They're taking advantage of a play that can get them three free throws and help their team win games. That's just smart basketball.

Yeah I definitely agree.

Vee-Rex
04-24-2017, 12:34 PM
If the entire 2nd half of the season was not enough for you to question the Cavs as being championship caliber, a series in which they struggled mightily (despite pulling off the sweep in the end) against arguably the worst team in the playoffs should have. I'd still bet on the Cavs making the Finals, but both Milwaukee and Washington will offer a host of problems for them should they meet. The Jazz are currently at full strength for the first time this season, and again I would not think twice about picking them in a matchup versus Cleveland. Ditto Spurs and Warriors obviously. Houston would be an interesting matchup, though I do think Cleveland comes out on top in that one.

1. 2nd half of the season was full of championship hangover. It was in our body language.

2. I'd argue Indiana played like a top 4 team in the East these playoffs, and that they're better than Portland, OKC. I think you're completely mislead by scores at the end of games (I'm assuming you didn't watch the entire series like I did).

3. You may look at the Cavs Drtg and be like, "zomg they suck!" but a deeper look shows an Indiana team that played like bosses. Only 4 NBA teams shot a better wide-open % than Indiana (OKC, Memphis, Cleveland, Milwaukee) and all of those teams shot a much higher % of their shots in the paint than Indiana. Indiana was 3rd highest in the league in having their shots tightly contested (defender 0-2 ft).

I mean, Indiana shot 17.6% of their shots wide open at a 50.8% clip. Portland shot 16.1% of their shots wide open at a 36.4% clip. More of Indiana's shots were outside the paint than Portland's. One team was bucking, the other team was bricking.

Not to mention the Pacers playing well and the Cavs playing worse than normal on offense. I doubt Kyrie goes 21% from 3-point range for an entire series again (8 attempts per game), and the Cavs are not likely to just get outrebounded vs. most teams like they did versus the Pacers.

My point is - based on my eye test the Cavs did decent (not fantastic) on defense (better than the 2nd half of the regular season) but ran into an opponent that was searing hot. The regular season is kinda moot at this point. The stats show it too. IMO, we need a bigger sample size than 4 games to make sweeping statements such as, "The Cavs are not championship caliber."

tredigs
04-24-2017, 12:40 PM
I've watched all but the first half of game 3 between Cavs and Pacers (I realize many fans on this site stick to watching their own team, I am not one of those fans), and I have seen all of your posts after each game claiming "aw shucks people are gonna see the score and think these games were close". They're lapsing, and it's been a consistent issue with them. By "championship caliber" I mean a top 2-3 team with a legitimate chance to win it all.
I do not see that with this Cavs team, and haven't for some time. Time will tell who's right this year.

Vee-Rex
04-24-2017, 12:48 PM
By "championship caliber" I mean a top 2-3 team with a legitimate chance to win it all. I do not see that with this Cavs team, and haven't for some time.Time will tell who's right this year.

Losing to GS in the finals won't make you right lol. It'll just mean they lost to the overwhelming favorites that would beat everyone else.

Maybe you're expecting GS to sweep Cleveland with an average 30+ margin of victory or something, Idk.

IKnowHoops
04-25-2017, 10:05 PM
I disagree with every single sentence.

I can see the East challenging Cleveland a little more but other than Washington, who will truly do that? Milwaukee minus Jabari Parker just isn't the same and the defensive strategy utilized by Toronto to shut Giannis down (packing the paint) would be easily replicated. Boston would likely get swept, and Lolwry + DeRozan look to be their exact same inconsistent selves, minus a big man who can provide as much impact as Biyombo did in the ECF to steal them two wins (yes, I am fully aware of the Tucker/Ibaka additions and Norman Powell's impact).

As far as Washington goes - get your hopes up all you want but I see a team that isn't much different than previous years. Even if they manage to match starting units with Cleveland, we run LeBron + bench vs. opponent's bench and they'd get massacred. They just wouldn't hold up over a 7-game series. They don't have a single person on their roster that can even make it difficult for LeBron, no one that can defend him the way Paul George did.

Indiana has been kicking our ***** over the past few years and are a dominant home team - yet we still swept them and were leading by double digits late in 3/4 games of the games. We were down 26 in the first half on the road in game 3 - with a ton of hot shooting from the Pacers, and still managed to come back. Dudes wanna look at that as a knock on Cleveland and to some degree it is but you also cannot ignore what happened in the 2nd half. That's not really normal and shows a team that is capable of competing with anyone.

As to your last point - I think it'd be foolish to take Utah in a heartbeat. Otherwise, I have no problem with leaning towards Utah. Their ceiling is high and if fully healthy they're probably a top 4 team in the league. Going with Utah isn't really saying much (but they gotta get past the Clippers first). I'd just be wary of picking an underdog vs. LeBron. 2011 Mavs/Heat LeBron is long gone.

It's been years since Tre has made an honest opinion about Bron. The hater/homer in him simply won't allow it.

IKnowHoops
04-25-2017, 10:11 PM
I've watched all but the first half of game 3 between Cavs and Pacers (I realize many fans on this site stick to watching their own team, I am not one of those fans), and I have seen all of your posts after each game claiming "aw shucks people are gonna see the score and think these games were close". They're lapsing, and it's been a consistent issue with them. By "championship caliber" I mean a top 2-3 team with a legitimate chance to win it all.
I do not see that with this Cavs team, and haven't for some time. Time will tell who's right this year.

So are you saying if Bron slays your team again in the finals, you will call him the GOAT? Because he would of done the impossible against a a much better and stacked team?

tredigs
04-25-2017, 11:35 PM
So are you saying if Bron slays your team again in the finals, you will call him the GOAT? Because he would of done the impossible against a a much better and stacked team?

Let's see how he looks and who he's going against, if they both make it. I've certainly seen the actual GOAT look a hell of a lot more impressive than 'Bron on a consistent basis in the biggest games.

tredigs
04-25-2017, 11:52 PM
We've got some amazing series coming up (in the West). Warriors/Jazz (hopefully, but if the Clips pull it off they will have earned it and that will be entertain as well) and Rockets/Spurs.

ewing
04-25-2017, 11:55 PM
We've got some amazing series coming up (in the West). Warriors/Jazz (hopefully, but if the Clips pull it off they will have earned it and that will be entertain as well) and Rockets/Spurs.

it will be interesting. I really think a Jazz series will tell us a lot about the warriors. I think they flat out class them but they would be facing a team with size that is better then sum of its parts so its a test. If the Warriors are as good as i think they are it won't be a problem. if it happens i'll be looking for every reason to root for the Jazz.

More-Than-Most
04-26-2017, 12:22 AM
We've got some amazing series coming up (in the West). Warriors/Jazz (hopefully, but if the Clips pull it off they will have earned it and that will be entertain as well) and Rockets/Spurs.

No... No we dont. Remember when you said that about the Blazers about 3 weeks ago because they were winning all those games and I laughed at the notion? The warriors will sweep the clippers or take the Jazz in 5.

tredigs
04-26-2017, 12:45 AM
No... No we dont. Remember when you said that about the Blazers about 3 weeks ago because they were winning all those games and I laughed at the notion? The warriors will sweep the clippers or take the Jazz in 5.

We did not get to see those Blazers, you realize that right? Nurkic turned that team on its head and made them extremely formidable. And I only said they would make it interesting/competitive at times, but that I expected the series to go no more than 5 games.

mightybosstone
04-26-2017, 08:21 AM
It will be interesting to see which of the 2-2 and 3-2 series go to 7 games. At the start of this round, I honestly wasn't that excited about many of these series or didn't think many of them would go to more than 5 or 6 games. But we could have 3 or 4 series go the distance.

Scoots
04-26-2017, 09:07 AM
The Jazz are the biggest matchup issue for the Warriors. That said the Warriors are superior at every position except Center, and I don't know if Gobert can play for long stretches if the Warriors put Green at center and make the small ball work.

I'm looking forward to all of the upcoming series.

mightybosstone
04-26-2017, 09:57 AM
The Jazz are the biggest matchup issue for the Warriors. That said the Warriors are superior at every position except Center, and I don't know if Gobert can play for long stretches if the Warriors put Green at center and make the small ball work.

I'm looking forward to all of the upcoming series.

Yeah, but I'd probably give the slight edge to Utah if we're talking depth. They've got guys like Favors, JJ and Hood coming off their bench right now, which is a pretty deadly second unit. Granted, those guys are still getting starters minutes, but their 8-10 man rotations give them a lot of flexibility.

I'd still take the Warriors in probably 5-6 games, but I think Utah could make it interesting.

Scoots
04-26-2017, 11:05 AM
Yeah, but I'd probably give the slight edge to Utah if we're talking depth. They've got guys like Favors, JJ and Hood coming off their bench right now, which is a pretty deadly second unit. Granted, those guys are still getting starters minutes, but their 8-10 man rotations give them a lot of flexibility.

I'd still take the Warriors in probably 5-6 games, but I think Utah could make it interesting.

The Warriors bench has proven to be pretty effective too with Iguodala, Livingston (who missed most of the Blazers series), West, McGee (I can't believe it either), Clark, and McCaw (who could be important defending Hill as McCaw is the quickest Warrior)

If Favors was 100% and Gobert was 100% it would be tougher. I think the Warriors beat the Jazz in 5 but the Jazz could win too ... particularly if some other variable changes.

ewing
04-26-2017, 11:10 AM
The Jazz are the biggest matchup issue for the Warriors. That said the Warriors are superior at every position except Center, and I don't know if Gobert can play for long stretches if the Warriors put Green at center and make the small ball work.

I'm looking forward to all of the upcoming series.

Will the Jazz be able to slow the game down? Will they be able to comfortably run 1/2 sets or will the Warriors speed force them into more of a scramble? This is what i think determines if the Jazz can complete

Vee-Rex
04-26-2017, 11:23 AM
Will the Jazz be able to slow the game down? Will they be able to comfortably run 1/2 sets or will the Warriors speed force them into more of a scramble? This is what i think determines if the Jazz can complete

IMO, a team has to be able to run to beat GS - just not do it all the time.

Everyone continues to underestimate their defense. Their halfcourt defense is pretty damn incredible and a team like Utah might find themselves getting locked down.

Run off every GS turnover, off every GS missed shot, and your offense has a better chance of scoring before their crazy defense settles in. Don't run off made GS shots or they'll just get EXTRA fired up whenever they stop you and the game starts getting out of control.

The Cavs had far more fast break points in the finals last year than GS and that was a big reason why they had such a high ORTG that killed GS games 3-7.

eDush
04-26-2017, 01:05 PM
Will the Jazz be able to slow the game down? Will they be able to comfortably run 1/2 sets or will the Warriors speed force them into more of a scramble? This is what i think determines if the Jazz can complete

IMO, a team has to be able to run to beat GS - just not do it all the time.

Everyone continues to underestimate their defense. Their halfcourt defense is pretty damn incredible and a team like Utah might find themselves getting locked down.

Run off every GS turnover, off every GS missed shot, and your offense has a better chance of scoring before their crazy defense settles in. Don't run off made GS shots or they'll just get EXTRA fired up whenever they stop you and the game starts getting out of control.

The Cavs had far more fast break points in the finals last year than GS and that was a big reason why they had such a high ORTG that killed GS games 3-7.Hate to admit it but that was true in the finals and a key reason why we failed to take commanding double digit leads in the later games among other factors that lead to our downfall :(.

I did congratulate the Cavs on their win as we are not sore losers.
:no:

Scoots
04-26-2017, 11:05 PM
IMO, a team has to be able to run to beat GS - just not do it all the time.

Everyone continues to underestimate their defense. Their halfcourt defense is pretty damn incredible and a team like Utah might find themselves getting locked down.

Run off every GS turnover, off every GS missed shot, and your offense has a better chance of scoring before their crazy defense settles in. Don't run off made GS shots or they'll just get EXTRA fired up whenever they stop you and the game starts getting out of control.

The Cavs had far more fast break points in the finals last year than GS and that was a big reason why they had such a high ORTG that killed GS games 3-7.

LeBron strangled the Warriors ... it was absolutely masterful. They had no answer. Thus KD.

The issue with the Jazz speeding up the game is I don't know that they have the horses to beat the Warriors in that game. If Diaw, Favors, and Gobert were 100% they would carve the Warriors up inside in the slow down game.

tredigs
04-28-2017, 01:48 AM
IMO, a team has to be able to run to beat GS - just not do it all the time.

Everyone continues to underestimate their defense. Their halfcourt defense is pretty damn incredible and a team like Utah might find themselves getting locked down.

Run off every GS turnover, off every GS missed shot, and your offense has a better chance of scoring before their crazy defense settles in. Don't run off made GS shots or they'll just get EXTRA fired up whenever they stop you and the game starts getting out of control.

The Cavs had far more fast break points in the finals last year than GS and that was a big reason why they had such a high ORTG that killed GS games 3-7.


You gotta be praying for more injuries or suspensions, right? Full strength as it's looking I mean, YIKES. I'd even toss out KD to make it fair if I could.

More-Than-Most
04-28-2017, 02:35 AM
You gotta be praying for more injuries or suspensions, right? Full strength as it's looking I mean, YIKES. I'd even toss out KD to make it fair if I could.

I ****ing am thats for damn sure... But to be fair losing 1 of the big 4 would be irrelevent... Losing 2 would make **** even lmfao... Serious question... If you had to choose between curry going down or green or Durant or Green who do you take? To me as much as I hate that **** Green is the warriors MVP.

FlashBolt
04-28-2017, 02:38 PM
Utah can't score so unless they plan on beating them with Gobert, his defensive impact is limited. It's not like Draymond/McGee are going to dominate offensively. I mean, who guards Klay+Curry+KD? Too many offensive weapons particularly from the three point area. Like, I think Rockets would probably sweep the Jazz.

tredigs
04-28-2017, 03:18 PM
Utah can score. Hayward is a fantastic scorer with elite 3pt range. George Hill is a very good scorer with elite 3pt range. Joe Johnson off the bench is playing like the best bench scorer in basketball right now. Favors and Gobert are both limited, but you're going to get ~15 PPG of highly efficient paint scoring from both. This was nearly a top 10 offense in the NBA, and they had the most injury plagued roster in the NBA (now, they are all healthy for the 1st time this season). Their suffocating defense speaks for itself, and Gobert is a paint protector. That's the advantage of guys like him, they cover a region, not a player. Not a chance in hell would the Rockets sweep them. I'd take Jazz in 6.

Tg11
04-29-2017, 04:28 PM
If the Clippers beat the Jazz and then move on to face the Warriors then the Clippers would obviously get swept by the Warriors

HandsOnTheWheel
04-30-2017, 03:10 AM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f4/c7/81/f4c781f9130a6b92b1361858de702d22.jpg

kobe4thewinbang
05-07-2017, 03:45 AM
Damn shame that Kyle "Glass" Lowry is hurt again at just the worst time. Meanwhile, DeRozan is scoring career-highs and on the flipside George Hill goes down for the Jazz. Tony Parker, too. I just hate injuries. But LeBron is killing it!

valade16
05-08-2017, 02:23 AM
Well as expected Kawhi Leonard is coming back to earth. It seems LeBron has indeed been the best player in the playoffs.

tredigs
05-08-2017, 11:56 AM
Well as expected Kawhi Leonard is coming back to earth. It seems LeBron has indeed been the best player in the playoffs.

Based on what? Advanced slash still heavily favors Kawhi (per game averages are inflated for LBJ as he's playing >42 mpg to Kawhi's 36... why, I'm not entirely sure, as like three of their games have been close and he's in a lot of them late). PER 33.3 for Kawhi to 31.1 for 'Bron. WS/48 .349 for Kawhi to .294 for 'Bron. VORP 1.3 for Kawhi to 1.1 for 'Bron (all those #1 in the playoffs). TS% .694 for Kawhi to .663 for 'Bron. Just better across the board, and against better teams.

Kawhi's also tasked with guarding one of the toughest matchups in the NBA in this series for large portions of the game. Lebron is roaming around playing free safety on Demarre Carrol (doing very good in the role, but it's not a role he'd have the privilege of having against a team like the Rockets).

FlashBolt
05-08-2017, 06:28 PM
LeBron's consistent every game, though. kawhi is too but there were a few games that he didn't play as well as the others - which was the difference between W/L. Kawhi does face the better competition THUS FAR, so let's see. I haven't been surprised with Bron's performance at all whereas Kawhi just took his game to a level I didn't expect so there's that. I still get the sense Bron isn't putting 100%. Toronto and Pacers never gave him that challenge.

tredigs
05-08-2017, 10:26 PM
LeBron's consistent every game, though. kawhi is too but there were a few games that he didn't play as well as the others - which was the difference between W/L. Kawhi does face the better competition THUS FAR, so let's see. I haven't been surprised with Bron's performance at all whereas Kawhi just took his game to a level I didn't expect so there's that. I still get the sense Bron isn't putting 100%. Toronto and Pacers never gave him that challenge.

Fair points.

Vee-Rex
05-08-2017, 10:45 PM
I still get the sense Bron isn't putting 100%.

I'm having a hard time figuring that out myself. It LOOKS like he's putting in 100% effort but then he starts to clown around a bit by shooting bombs and crazy fadeaways at times. Though usually that's when the Cavs are winning by a fair amount.

He's putting up astounding numbers but it's all kinda within the flow of the game. He hasn't taken full control and went mayhem yet (2012 game 6 vs. BOS ECF, game 5 vs. GS finals last year, etc...). It'll likely take the Cavs being pushed for him to get to that point.

Vee-Rex
05-09-2017, 04:13 PM
Fun Fact:

Both Cleveland and GS are the two most efficient playoff teams in the last 20+ years (potentially in NBA history but I didn't pull up the stats before the '96-97 playoffs).

Cleveland - 61.6%TS
Golden State - 59.5%TS

Now I realize these numbers likely drop after the conference finals and the finals... but still, it's pretty incredible.

Chronz
05-09-2017, 08:53 PM
Ill admit it, I thought the playoffs would be when I make my return to the NBA but Im not watching every series like I used to. I literally havent seen a single quarter of any of GS games, whats the point? By this time next year, I may stop watching altogether. I'll still gamble on games but Im assuming that inevitably dies as the success rate drops without watching as much footage but I havent felt much of a dip this year so maybe it will take a more radical change in the league.

Vee-Rex
05-09-2017, 09:20 PM
Ill admit it, I thought the playoffs would be when I make my return to the NBA but Im not watching every series like I used to. I literally havent seen a single quarter of any of GS games, whats the point? By this time next year, I may stop watching altogether. I'll still gamble on games but Im assuming that inevitably dies as the success rate drops without watching as much footage but I havent felt much of a dip this year so maybe it will take a more radical change in the league.

We need your support in the upcoming battle.

Do you think certain off-season moves for the Clips might bring you back? I can't think of a good acquisition. I get the feeling Griffin and Paul will stay (along with Doc unfortunately). I'm not sure about Melo...

Scoots
05-09-2017, 11:27 PM
Ill admit it, I thought the playoffs would be when I make my return to the NBA but Im not watching every series like I used to. I literally havent seen a single quarter of any of GS games, whats the point? By this time next year, I may stop watching altogether. I'll still gamble on games but Im assuming that inevitably dies as the success rate drops without watching as much footage but I havent felt much of a dip this year so maybe it will take a more radical change in the league.

It might just be that you've moved on. People do change their passions over time.

eDush
05-10-2017, 12:33 AM
If the Clippers beat the Jazz and then move on to face the Warriors then the Clippers would obviously get swept by the WarriorsNot really as I believe the Clips were the only team that can take a few games from the Warriors but lose the series. They were the most feared team in the West foe the Warriors for obvious reasons that only fools cannot see. I have said we can destroy the Jazz in their slept due to matchups which is the key to winning :nod:

Scoots
05-10-2017, 01:09 AM
Sorry, the Warriors have owned the Clippers so bad they are in their head.

valade16
05-10-2017, 03:25 AM
Based on what? Advanced slash still heavily favors Kawhi (per game averages are inflated for LBJ as he's playing >42 mpg to Kawhi's 36... why, I'm not entirely sure, as like three of their games have been close and he's in a lot of them late). PER 33.3 for Kawhi to 31.1 for 'Bron. WS/48 .349 for Kawhi to .294 for 'Bron. VORP 1.3 for Kawhi to 1.1 for 'Bron (all those #1 in the playoffs). TS% .694 for Kawhi to .663 for 'Bron. Just better across the board, and against better teams.

Kawhi's also tasked with guarding one of the toughest matchups in the NBA in this series for large portions of the game. Lebron is roaming around playing free safety on Demarre Carrol (doing very good in the role, but it's not a role he'd have the privilege of having against a team like the Rockets).

Well his numbers will continue to drop after tonight, and even though he was injured, his scoring efficiency was not good.

As Flash mentioned, LeBron has not really had a single bad game and most have been excellent. He's had 1 game under 30 pts (at 25). He is just consistently great whereas Kawhi was a monster to start and has had some games where he is not at that superhuman level.

I think LeBron has been the best player in the playoffs in totality.

FlashBolt
05-10-2017, 11:20 AM
I don't see Kawhi keeping this performance up whereas I see LeBron being able to continue doing whatever he pleases. That's the difference for me. Kawhi's been great and it's crazy that last night was an off game for him but I really don't see him keeping it up. His PER was at like 38 a few games ago. WS was literally near .400 I think.

tredigs
05-10-2017, 12:33 PM
Bron's play is obviously not sustainable either. He's shooting 47% from three on the most attempts of his playoff career. That's like me thinking Draymond continuing to shoot 51% from three on the most attempts of his playoff career while being the best defender in the playoffs is sustainable. Their overall effort is, not the efficiency. That's coming down to earth (just as Kawhi's already is... though still overall better than 'Bron and everyone else so far).

valade16
05-10-2017, 01:26 PM
Bron's play is obviously not sustainable either. He's shooting 47% from three on the most attempts of his playoff career. That's like me thinking Draymond continuing to shoot 51% from three on the most attempts of his playoff career while being the best defender in the playoffs is sustainable. Their overall effort is, not the efficiency. That's coming down to earth (just as Kawhi's already is... though still overall better than 'Bron and everyone else so far).

Kawhi's TS% is .668. LeBron's is .663. It is better by the slimmest of margins. Their scoring efficiency is for all intents and purposes, the same.

Chronz
05-10-2017, 01:29 PM
It might just be that you've moved on. People do change their passions over time.
I'm scared of that most of all. My nba has been declining for awhile now

tredigs
05-10-2017, 01:44 PM
Kawhi's TS% is .668. LeBron's is .663. It is better by the slimmest of margins. Their scoring efficiency is for all intents and purposes, the same.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm saying that their shooting efficiency are all going to drop ('Bron, Kawhi, Green, etc), but that "overall" Kawhi has still been the better player, even if you want to make the argument that 'Bron has had more consistency.

Scoots
05-10-2017, 03:43 PM
I'm scared of that most of all. My nba has been declining for awhile now

I used to see every minute of every one of "my team" on TV in multiple sports. Now I only see about 1/4 of the games live and the another half with liberal use of the fast forward button on the DVR.

I think growing up is part of it, but 300 channels, the DVR, and the internet have all served to blunt the impact of sports on me too.

TrueFan420
05-10-2017, 04:50 PM
I used to see every minute of every one of "my team" on TV in multiple sports. Now I only see about 1/4 of the games live and the another half with liberal use of the fast forward button on the DVR.

I think growing up is part of it, but 300 channels, the DVR, and the internet have all served to blunt the impact of sports on me too.

second that motion. then add in a family and all that entails and the sports watching loses priority.

FlashBolt
05-10-2017, 06:20 PM
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm saying that their shooting efficiency are all going to drop ('Bron, Kawhi, Green, etc), but that "overall" Kawhi has still been the better player, even if you want to make the argument that 'Bron has had more consistency.

I get what you're saying but the odds LeBron declines at this point would be at a much slower rate than Kawhi just because we've seen LeBron keep this up for the entire playoffs. Has Kawhi? Especially with his new injury, does he replicate the same performances? I don't think so. If you made me bet, I would say by the end of the playoffs, LeBron ends up as a better player. Who do you bet on?

lol, please
05-14-2017, 06:53 PM
Bron's play is obviously not sustainable either. He's shooting 47% from three on the most attempts of his playoff career. That's like me thinking Draymond continuing to shoot 51% from three on the most attempts of his playoff career while being the best defender in the playoffs is sustainable. Their overall effort is, not the efficiency. That's coming down to earth (just as Kawhi's already is... though still overall better than 'Bron and everyone else so far).

Well said.

It kills me how people forget that regression to the mean happens.

Sly Guy
05-19-2017, 09:49 PM
This has to be the most boring NBA playoffs in memory. So many blowouts, so many predictable results. Devoid of drama and competitiveness. Super teams suck

JAZZNC
05-20-2017, 02:31 AM
I used to see every minute of every one of "my team" on TV in multiple sports. Now I only see about 1/4 of the games live and the another half with liberal use of the fast forward button on the DVR.

I think growing up is part of it, but 300 channels, the DVR, and the internet have all served to blunt the impact of sports on me too.

I remember the days of not missing a Wake Forest basketball game for like a decade even if it meant listening on the radio. Same with the Jazz, if they were on TV I was watching, couple years I had NBA league pass. The last couple years I have watched less basketball than ever before. Some of it is time/no cable and some of it is just differing interests. Like I'd much rather spend my free time watching a Bassmaster Elite series tournament or Major League Fishing than some random regular season NBA or college basketball game. I still enjoy watching basketball for sure, it's just not the priority that it used to be.

valade16
05-20-2017, 10:39 AM
Updated advanced stats of best playoff performers:

LeBron James: 32.7 PER, .670 TS%, .336 WS/48, 13.0 BPM, 1.6 VORP
Kawhi Leonard: 32.6 PER, .672 TS%, .337 WS/48, 11.8 BPM, 1.5 VORP
Steph Curry: 28.8 PER, .672 TS%, .312 WS/48, 12.0 BPM, 1.2 VORP
Draymond Green: 22.1 PER, .647 TS%, .274 WS/48, 11.7 BPM, 1.2 VORP

LeBron James is statistically the best.

Vee-Rex
05-20-2017, 11:34 AM
Funny how the league is super boring and everything but if we were to give the Warriors some Lakers jerseys and the Cavs some Celtics jerseys everyone would be ecstatic and eager to watch basketball.

Scoots
05-20-2017, 04:12 PM
Funny how the league is super boring and everything but if we were to give the Warriors some Lakers jerseys and the Cavs some Celtics jerseys everyone would be ecstatic and eager to watch basketball.

I think it's a different world. A lot more public hate than back then.

FlashBolt
05-20-2017, 09:21 PM
2013 and 2016 were two of the greatest NBA Finals I've ever seen. This was one of the worst basketball seasons for me. But if the NBA Finals is half as good as it was last year, this was a damn good season. The storylines for this matchup trumps any other.

FlashBolt
05-20-2017, 09:25 PM
Updated advanced stats of best playoff performers:

LeBron James: 32.7 PER, .670 TS%, .336 WS/48, 13.0 BPM, 1.6 VORP
Kawhi Leonard: 32.6 PER, .672 TS%, .337 WS/48, 11.8 BPM, 1.5 VORP
Steph Curry: 28.8 PER, .672 TS%, .312 WS/48, 12.0 BPM, 1.2 VORP
Draymond Green: 22.1 PER, .647 TS%, .274 WS/48, 11.7 BPM, 1.2 VORP

LeBron James is statistically the best.

LeBron's highest PER and WS for the playoffs was in 09.

37.4 PER, .400 WS48. Insane how great this guy has been and for so long, too. Never seen anything like it.

FlashBolt
05-20-2017, 09:31 PM
LeBron is 73 points away from breaking Jordan's playoff record. Realistically, could have passed him after game 4 but he only played 33 mins in game 2. Something special..

LOb0
05-21-2017, 05:29 PM
LeBron is 73 points away from breaking Jordan's playoff record. Realistically, could have passed him after game 4 but he only played 33 mins in game 2. Something special..


Realistically. LeBron had an extra 20 or so games due to so because the first round is 7 games rather than 5.

Bruno
05-21-2017, 06:11 PM
Ill admit it, I thought the playoffs would be when I make my return to the NBA but Im not watching every series like I used to. I literally havent seen a single quarter of any of GS games, whats the point? By this time next year, I may stop watching altogether. I'll still gamble on games but Im assuming that inevitably dies as the success rate drops without watching as much footage but I havent felt much of a dip this year so maybe it will take a more radical change in the league.

Same, I logged in to write something similar. nice to see that I'm not alone. Ive watched every NBA playoff since 1997. I have not watched a single game of the eastern or western conference playoffs. i caught select games from select series before the conference finals began. This is the least competitive, least interesting playoff run I've ever seen. Even if the finals are fantastic, three rounds of zzz isn't what makes playoff basketball fun for fans.

I've taken Kevin Durants advice. i'm not watching. it's disappointing but its better than wasting my time. i guess this is what happens we the collective NBA fan base values winning in a vaccum over anything, including the legitimate competition that made the sport great, and made 'winning' so commendable in the past.

kobe4thewinbang
05-21-2017, 06:48 PM
Warning: Rant!

...

The one year we *finally* get Spurs/Warriors, and Kawhi is unable to play for most of it, aggravating his ankle injury right after it appeared to be a Spurs win in Game 1! Seriously disappointed by this likely sweep after the Spurs lost game 3. I will remind everyone that the Warriors did blow a 3-1 lead to the Cavaliers, but the Spurs couldn't get their '1' by holding on to the lead in Game 1. Just a sad series altogether, unless a crazy Cavs-like comeback happens. Coupled with the abysmal Celtics/Cavaliers conference finals, this is easily the worst round in the playoffs so far. Hopefully the Finals themselves will be injury-free and fun.

:( :mad::pity::bang::sad2::bs::shrug::yawn::crying::f acepalm::hope:

valade16
05-21-2017, 07:01 PM
Same, I logged in to write something similar. nice to see that I'm not alone. Ive watched every NBA playoff since 1997. I have not watched a single game of the eastern or western conference playoffs. i caught select games from select series before the conference finals began. This is the least competitive, least interesting playoff run I've ever seen. Even if the finals are fantastic, three rounds of zzz isn't what makes playoff basketball fun for fans.

I've taken Kevin Durants advice. i'm not watching. it's disappointing but its better than wasting my time. i guess this is what happens we the collective NBA fan base values winning in a vaccum over anything, including the legitimate competition that made the sport great, and made 'winning' so commendable in the past.

I have watched 2 Blazer-Warrior games and about a half of 2 other playoff games. Otherwise, I have not watched.

Scoots
05-21-2017, 11:54 PM
Similar. Though being a Warriors fan you'd think I'd be enjoying it more. I don't think it's because of the 2 "super" teams, but more that play in the NBA in general has fallen off. Defense is way down this year, fundamentals seem to have fallen off, and playing for the foul and getting the call left and right has made it considerably less interesting to watch to me.

Scoots
05-22-2017, 09:07 AM
An interesting thing to look at for the finals, assuming it's Warriors/Cavs, is starter minutes. The Warriors have 2 total players games over 40 minutes, and that was Klay and Draymond got just over 40 minutes in the come back game against Portland a month ago, but for the most part they have been closer to 34 minutes per game for the big 4 most games. The Cavs have 12 player games over 40 minutes and LeBron has 2 games over 45 minutes. Not talking about fatigue, just minutes ... the Warriors can add 20 minutes a game from their top 4 players from where they have been during the playoffs thus far. It telling that the only game the Warriors had to work only got them to push hard enough to get 2 players to 40 minutes.

Warriors/Cavs III is going to be very interesting.

tredigs
05-22-2017, 10:32 AM
I've been prop betting every game and having a blast (hey Dad!) watching the playoffs. It's the toll of watching an immovable object meet an unstoppable force.

tredigs
05-22-2017, 10:39 AM
An interesting thing to look at for the finals, assuming it's Warriors/Cavs, is starter minutes. The Warriors have 2 total players games over 40 minutes, and that was Klay and Draymond got just over 40 minutes in the come back game against Portland a month ago, but for the most part they have been closer to 34 minutes per game for the big 4 most games. The Cavs have 12 player games over 40 minutes and LeBron has 2 games over 45 minutes. Not talking about fatigue, just minutes ... the Warriors can add 20 minutes a game from their top 4 players from where they have been during the playoffs thus far. It telling that the only game the Warriors had to work only got them to push hard enough to get 2 players to 40 minutes.

Warriors/Cavs III is going to be very interesting.

Unfortunately I actually think it benefits the Cavs that their standard playoff rotation is Bron only sitting the last 2 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarter, and the team in general playing big minutes. Yes the Warriors have much more to tap into, but there is also something to be said about feeling comfortable in your rotation and knowing that you won't gas. Especially since they're only going to have one series over 4 games, so fatigue is a non factor.

tredigs
05-22-2017, 10:56 AM
Updated advanced stats of best playoff performers:

LeBron James: 32.7 PER, .670 TS%, .336 WS/48, 13.0 BPM, 1.6 VORP
Kawhi Leonard: 32.6 PER, .672 TS%, .337 WS/48, 11.8 BPM, 1.5 VORP
Steph Curry: 28.8 PER, .672 TS%, .312 WS/48, 12.0 BPM, 1.2 VORP
Draymond Green: 22.1 PER, .647 TS%, .274 WS/48, 11.7 BPM, 1.2 VORP

LeBron James is statistically the best.

Update:

Lebron James: 29.6 PER, .651 TS%, 10.6 BPM, 1.5 VORP*.

*Hard to go negative in VORP as it is minutes based (he has 460 minutes played to Curry/Draymond at 380) and cumulative, but his last game did it. Lebron is statistically now not the best after last nights choke.

Scoots
05-22-2017, 12:10 PM
Unfortunately I actually think it benefits the Cavs that their standard playoff rotation is Bron only sitting the last 2 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarter, and the team in general playing big minutes. Yes the Warriors have much more to tap into, but there is also something to be said about feeling comfortable in your rotation and knowing that you won't gas. Especially since they're only going to have one series over 4 games, so fatigue is a non factor.

I doubt any of the Warriors adding 5 minutes per game will make a significant difference in them losing performance during a game. Fatigue would, I assume, not be an issue since both teams have ripped through the playoffs.

tredigs
05-22-2017, 12:20 PM
I doubt any of the Warriors adding 5 minutes per game will make a significant difference in them losing performance during a game. Fatigue would, I assume, not be an issue since both teams have ripped through the playoffs.

It's not just the added minutes, it's also the fact that they will be completely altering their rotations, where as the Cavs are simply continuing with what they have been accustomed to all playoffs. It's probably not a big deal either way, but it is worth a mention.

Bruno
05-22-2017, 03:36 PM
so the Cavs are so good that they can actually throw a game for the sake of internal motivation/play down the narrative of domination that is this post season? finals should be interesting. LBJ king of the meta play these days.

Scoots
05-22-2017, 03:56 PM
It's not just the added minutes, it's also the fact that they will be completely altering their rotations, where as the Cavs are simply continuing with what they have been accustomed to all playoffs. It's probably not a big deal either way, but it is worth a mention.

Sure, and some of the players getting less minutes may struggle to get up to speed in fewer minutes, and one of the Warriors strengths is being able to show different styles.

FlashBolt
05-23-2017, 12:22 AM
It's not just the added minutes, it's also the fact that they will be completely altering their rotations, where as the Cavs are simply continuing with what they have been accustomed to all playoffs. It's probably not a big deal either way, but it is worth a mention.

Honestly, who cares. It's about the Finals. Is anyone really checking these advanced stats every game?

Dade County
06-08-2017, 07:10 PM
Lmao... https://youtu.be/USb_Lassrrk

eDush
06-09-2017, 10:31 PM
My Steph will go on fire in the 2nd half....we can all feel it :clap: