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lamzoka
04-12-2017, 01:44 PM
Lets hand out the regular season awards

MVP Westbrook

DPY Kawhi Leonard

MIP Nikola Jokic

Sixth Man Eric Gordon

COY Mike D'antoni

ROY Saric

WaDe03
04-12-2017, 01:53 PM
MVP: Westbrook

DPY: Gobert

MIP: Giannis

Sixth man: Lou Williams

COY: Mike D'antoni

ROY: Tony Romo - barely played less than Embiid

DanG
04-12-2017, 02:09 PM
MVP: Westbrook

DPOY: Gobert

MIP: Giannis

Sixth man: Eric Gordon

COY: Mike D'Antoni

ROY: Saric

TheDish87
04-12-2017, 02:30 PM
MVP: Harden
DPOY: Leonard
MIP: Otto Porter
6MOY: ZBo
COY: Mike D
ROY: Saric

tredigs
04-12-2017, 04:04 PM
MVP: Harden - Westbrook has a strong case for best individual season - but leading a team with the 10th best record in the league is not enough to win MVP for me, especially when their top attribute is their defense.

DPOY: Draymond - The man who guards smalls and bigs at an elite level. 12th in BPG, #1 in SPG. Top 3 in Deflections, Defensive Win Shares, Defensive box +/- and defensive rating. Day in, day out he's the most dynamic defender on the court and due for a DPOY after the past couple runner-ups.

MIP: Porter - Efficiency increases across the board despite the higher usage was impressive, down to reducing his already great Turnover rate to being the best in the NBA this season.

6MOY: Iguodala - Just been a breath of fresh air on both sides of the floor all year for GS. I know this is the award that generally goes to the best bench scorer, but I'm taking Iguodala's overall impact over any other bench piece this season. Gordon would be #2 for me, but he's all O and the advanced metrics back Iggy.

COY: Spo - Helping to keep his team in a good enough place mentally to turn that ship around is incredible.

ROY: Embiid - Just by far the best rookie who we saw this season, and actually had the most rookie Player of the Month acknowledgements (3) despite his limited time on the court. His comp is just too weak and he was just too good to give it to anyone else imo.

lamzoka
04-12-2017, 04:28 PM
MVP: Harden - Westbrook has a strong case for best individual season - but leading a team with the 10th best record in the league is not enough to win MVP for me, especially when their top attribute is their defense.

DPOY: Draymond - The man who guards smalls and bigs at an elite level. 12th in BPG, #1 in SPG. Top 3 in Deflections, Defensive Win Shares, Defensive box +/- and defensive rating. Day in, day out he's the most dynamic defender on the court and due for a DPOY after the past couple runner-ups.

MIP: Porter - Efficiency increases across the board despite the higher usage was impressive, down to reducing his already great Turnover rate to being the best in the NBA this season.

6MOY: Iguodala - Just been a breath of fresh air on both sides of the floor all year for GS. I know this is the award that generally goes to the best bench scorer, but I'm taking Iguodala's overall impact over any other bench piece this season. Gordon would be #2 for me, but he's all O and the advanced metrics back Iggy.

COY: Spo - Helping to keep his team in a good enough place mentally to turn that ship around is incredible.

ROY: Embiid - Just by far the best rookie who we saw this season, and actually had the most rookie Player of the Month acknowledgements (3) despite his limited time on the court. His comp is just too weak and he was just too good to give it to anyone else imo.

So you're telling me a player can't win MVP while leading his team to the 10th best record in the league, but a coach can win COY for leading his team to the 16th best record in the league and on the verge of missing playoffs?

Scoots
04-12-2017, 04:30 PM
MVP: Kawhi
MIP: Porter
DPOY: Green
6MOY: Iguodala
COY: Spo
ROY: Brogdon

lamzoka
04-12-2017, 04:53 PM
This Spo for coach COY thing have to be a joke. The heat's record is currently at 40-41 with 1 game remaining. There is a good chance they'll finish the season 2 games under .500 and miss the playoffs.
How about Brad Stevens, Dantoni, Pop, Kerr or even Lue.

How can you hand Harden the MVP for "winning" then turn around and give COY to Spo?

tredigs
04-12-2017, 05:08 PM
So you're telling me a player can't win MVP while leading his team to the 10th best record in the league, but a coach can win COY for leading his team to the 16th best record in the league and on the verge of missing playoffs?

A) I did not say Westbrook "can't win MVP", that's your misguided interpretation, B) An MVP caliber player has more effect on his team's W/L total and are held to a held to a higher standard as far as W/L is concerned accordingly. And more plainly COY doesn't matter and is held to a much less rigorous standard than MVP.

FlashBolt
04-12-2017, 05:24 PM
MVP Westbrook

DPY Gobert

MIP Giannis

Sixth Man Eric Gordon

COY Mike D

ROY Brogdon

mngopher35
04-12-2017, 05:28 PM
MVP: Westbrook
DPOY: Gobert
COY: Dantoni
6th man: Iggy (wouldn't mind Gordon)
MIP: Isaiah Thomas
ROY: ? Brogdon/Embiid/Saric I really dunno

Quinnsanity
04-12-2017, 05:35 PM
MVP: Harden

DPOY: Gobert

COY: Popovich

6th Man: Iggy

ROY: Embiid

MIP: Jokic

TylerSL
04-12-2017, 05:40 PM
Most Valuable Player-Russell Westbrook
Westbrook has done something Magic, Kareem, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, AI, Lebron, Wade, CP3, or Durant has never done. All these all time greats have come and gone and none of them ever even got close to averaging a triple double. What he has done is simply amazing and he is the only MVP.

Most Improved Player-Giannis Antetokounmpo
In the same number of minutes as last season he is shooting 1.5% better from the floor, while shooting 3 more shots a game, 5% better from the line, averaging 1 more assist and rebound per game, and 5 more points a game. Add that to his heavily increased role on the team and he's the MIP.

Defensive Player of the Year-Kawhi Leonard
He is the Scottie Pippen of this era but better. Very similar with his amazing perimeter defense but better offensively. He always guards the opposing teams best defender, to great success by the way, and is averaging 6 rebounds, 2 steals and a block. Keep in mind he's only playing 33 minutes a game.

Sixth Man of the Year-Eric Gordon
Averaging over 16 points off the bench while shooting 37% from the 3 point line. He's the biggest scoring threat off the Rockets bench and is a big reason they are where they are at. It's a close race with Iguodala, but Gordon takes it IMO.

Coach of the Year-Erik Spoelstra
Maybe I'm a bit bias here but the Heat have the most wins all time for a team that was 19 games under .500 during a season. Starting the season 11-30 in the first half and then going now 29-11, going for 30-11 tonight, in the second half is unheard of. The production he's getting out of a team devoid of stars is incredible and deserving of recognition. If the Heat get into the postseason it will be one of the biggest stories of the year.

Rookie of the Year-Joel Embiid
Even though he only played 31 games this season, he averaged 20 points, 8 rebounds, 2.5 blocks with an impressive .466/.367/.783 shooting line. He was the best rookie and it wasn't even close. If there was another standout rookie near his caliber then games played would be a big factor in determining this award, but there was not so it doesn't. Not when he was the best by as much as he was anyway.

More-Than-Most
04-12-2017, 05:46 PM
MVP Westbrook

DPY Gobert

MIP Giannis

Sixth Man Eric Gordon

COY Mike D

ROY Saric/Embiid

Quinnsanity
04-12-2017, 06:04 PM
Most Valuable Player-Russell Westbrook
Westbrook has done something Magic, Kareem, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, AI, Lebron, Wade, CP3, or Durant has never done. All these all time greats have come and gone and none of them ever even got close to averaging a triple double. What he has done is simply amazing and he is the only MVP.

Literally one of the guys you listed, Magic Johnson, averaged 18.6 points, 9.5 assists and 9.6 rebounds in '81-'82. How is that not close?

Also, if your argument is "doing something that nobody else has ever done," Harden is the first player ever to score 25 points per game and produce 25 points per game through assists. He's ACTUALLY the first person to do it, not the first person since Oscar. So that argument doesn't really hold up. You're basically saying "Westbrook is the MVP because he's a better rebounder than Harden." I'm not even convinced that's true.

I'm fine with people voting for Westbrook. Really, I am. The reasons they choose for it are just ridiculous.

europagnpilgrim
04-12-2017, 06:34 PM
MVP - Harden(Leonard should win on how they usually vote)
MIP - Joker(Otto P could get it)
DPOY - D Green
COY - Mike D
6th Man - Either Rockets guy, probably Eric since he was there start of season
ROY - Embiid

Scoots
04-12-2017, 06:44 PM
FWIW I went with Spo as COY because of the turnaround. I considered D'Antoni, but decided the team's play this year is a large part down to Morey's team building and how bad the coaching in Houston has been rather than D'Antoni being particularly great. Pop is always great so I take him for granted.

c.c.
04-12-2017, 07:09 PM
MVP - Harden
MIP - Clint Capela
DPOY - Patrick Beverly
COY - Mike D'Antoni
6th Man - Eric Gordon
ROY - Embiid is the best player with the best stats and if healthy will have the best career but he only played 31 games.
Saric average the second most points among rookies (yeah I know it's like an 8 point difference) and he played every game. He will probably end up being a role player and journeyman even if healthy but I'll still give him the ROY nod over Embiid simply because of availablity.

So I'm going with Dario Saric!

JAZZNC
04-12-2017, 07:54 PM
MVP - Harden
MIP - Clint Capela
DPOY - Patrick Beverly
COY - Mike D'Antoni
6th Man - Eric Gordon
ROY - Embiid is the best player with the best stats and if healthy will have the best career but he only played 31 games.
Saric average the second most points among rookies (yeah I know it's like an 8 point difference) and he played every game. He will probably end up being a role player and journeyman even if healthy but I'll still give him the ROY nod over Embiid simply because of availablity.

So I'm going with Dario Saric!
You're not biased at all, Jesus haha!

warfelg
04-12-2017, 08:38 PM
MVP - Harden AND Westbrook
MIP - Waiters
DPOY - Gobert
COTY - D'Antoni
6th Man - Nerlens Noel
ROY - Embiid AND Saric

rhino17
04-12-2017, 09:07 PM
MVP - Harden

DPY - Kawhi Leonard

MIP - Nikola Jokic

6th Man - Eric Gordon

COY - Brad Stevens

ROY - Embiid

TylerSL
04-12-2017, 10:59 PM
Literally one of the guys you listed, Magic Johnson, averaged 18.6 points, 9.5 assists and 9.6 rebounds in '81-'82. How is that not close?

Also, if your argument is "doing something that nobody else has ever done," Harden is the first player ever to score 25 points per game and produce 25 points per game through assists. He's ACTUALLY the first person to do it, not the first person since Oscar. So that argument doesn't really hold up. You're basically saying "Westbrook is the MVP because he's a better rebounder than Harden." I'm not even convinced that's true.

I'm fine with people voting for Westbrook. Really, I am. The reasons they choose for it are just ridiculous.

He was still many rebounds and assists shy of actually averaging double digit rebounds and assists per game but even still, of all the people I mentioned above (which is like every all time great player since the 80's) you can only bring up one guy in one year. That's how special Westbrook's season has been.

If you think Harden averaging all those assists is anything other than the system he is in you are deluding yourself. The Rockets are 3rd in pace, have shot over 500 more 3's than any other team, made over 100 more 3's than any other team, and broke the record for most 3's made in a single season. I'm not diminishing what Harden did, he had a career year, but it's not groundbreaking to lead the league in assists when you are the PG for the team who shot, and made, the most 3's by the margins the Rockets did.

And if we get right down to it, I think Kawhi Leonard should be runner up MVP, Harden 3, Lebron distant 4.

Jamiecballer
04-12-2017, 11:06 PM
Literally one of the guys you listed, Magic Johnson, averaged 18.6 points, 9.5 assists and 9.6 rebounds in '81-'82. How is that not close?

Also, if your argument is "doing something that nobody else has ever done," Harden is the first player ever to score 25 points per game and produce 25 points per game through assists. He's ACTUALLY the first person to do it, not the first person since Oscar. So that argument doesn't really hold up. You're basically saying "Westbrook is the MVP because he's a better rebounder than Harden." I'm not even convinced that's true.

I'm fine with people voting for Westbrook. Really, I am. The reasons they choose for it are just ridiculous.
+1

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Jamiecballer
04-12-2017, 11:11 PM
I'd give my vote for mvp to Harden first, Leonard second, James third and Westbrook fourth. Don't particularly care about the rest.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

ewing
04-12-2017, 11:16 PM
I'd give my vote for mvp to Harden first, Leonard second, James third and Westbrook fourth. Don't particularly care about the rest.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

How can you vote James over IT. He has a better supporting caste and will finish 2nd. Does leadership mean nothing?

Jamiecballer
04-12-2017, 11:18 PM
James is having an incredible year and being taken for granted, and Thomas is a traffic cone that's why

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Ariza's Better
04-12-2017, 11:22 PM
MVP: Harden
MIP: Jovic
6th Man: coin flip between Gordon and Lou
DPOY: Green
ROY: Saric
COTY: can't decide between Stevens and MDA

ewing
04-12-2017, 11:38 PM
James is having an incredible year and being taken for granted, and Thomas is a traffic cone that's why

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

I guess it means nothing.

IndyRealist
04-13-2017, 12:30 AM
Who will get it:
MVP: Westbrook
DPOY: Leonard
MIP: Giannis
6MOY: Gordon
COY: D'Antoni
ROY: Saric

Who I would give it to:
MVP: Leonard
DPOY: Gobert
MIP: Porter or Giannis
6MOY: Igoudala
COY: Spolestra
ROY: W. Hernangomez

FlashBolt
04-13-2017, 12:41 AM
It'll be tough for Leonard to win it just because statistically, his defensive numbers and impact isn't too impressive. It's between Gobert vs Draymond and I'll go with Gobert here. Ever since he got big minutes, Utah has been an elite team defensively.

warfelg
04-13-2017, 07:25 AM
Who will get it:
MVP: Westbrook
DPOY: Leonard
MIP: Giannis
6MOY: Gordon
COY: D'Antoni
ROY: Saric

Who I would give it to:
MVP: Leonard
DPOY: Gobert
MIP: Porter or Giannis
6MOY: Igoudala
COY: Spolestra
ROY: W. Hernangomez

I'm interested in hearing the argument for a non-starter who averaged 8/7/1 winning ROY.

The non-starter part is huge to me. If he was so good as a starter, he should have gotten more than 18 MPG, knocked Noah out of the lineup (who was ****ing terrible), and done more than that stat line.

FOXHOUND
04-13-2017, 07:55 AM
I'm interested in hearing the argument for a non-starter who averaged 8/7/1 winning ROY.

The non-starter part is huge to me. If he was so good as a starter, he should have gotten more than 18 MPG, knocked Noah out of the lineup (who was ****ing terrible), and done more than that stat line.

Billy started 22 games and played 72 overall.
In his starts, he averaged 25.8 MPG, 11.6 PTS, 9.3 REB, 2.0 AST and 1.6 TO while shooting .505 from the field on 9.4 FGA and .804 from the line on 2.5 FTA. He put up this production with a usage rate of 21.1%.

Saric started 36 games and played 81 overall.
In his starts, he averaged 29.6 MPG, 15.1 PTS, 6.9 REB, 2.9 AST and 2.8 TO while shooting .418 from the field on 13.4 FGA, .312 from 3 on 4.2 3PTA and .780 from the line on 3.2 FTA. He put up this production with a usage rate of 25.9%.

Three important things to make note of:

1) Saric's efficiency is horrific.

2) The 76ers were a tanking mess from day 1 which gave him much more freedom to do whatever he wanted. Despite this, he didn't become a full time starter until March, which is basically the same time as Billy.

3) In the last 10 games of the season, when the Knicks went full tank mode, Billy averaged 26.3 MPG, 13.6 PPG, 8.9 REB, 2.4 AST and 1.5 TO while shooting .515 from the field on 10.3 FGA and .806 from the line on 3.6 FTA. He had 4 double-doubles during this stretch and the Knicks were a +1.4 on average with him on the court. They even won 4 of the 6 games... unfortunately lol. If he was in a full tanking situation earlier then he would have had more freedom for longer and could have put up better numbers overall.

Despite all of this, and as a Knicks fan, my ROY vote would easily go to Malcolm Brogdon. I love Billy but his defense is atrocious right now. Brogdon played very solid basketball on both ends and helped his team make the postseason. He had the best rookie year, of the three. Embiid obviously blew everyone away but you can't give an award to someone for 31 games.

FOXHOUND
04-13-2017, 08:42 AM
MVP Russell Westbrook.

This was really tough. Harden and Kawhi are just as deserving, and I think both may have a better chance with the real voters despite the triple double angle. I pick Westbrook despite docking him points for obviously chasing rebounds on FT's by lining up in the paint and barely contesting shots to chase more. Why? The amount of great games he had was astounding. More so, doing it with such little offensive help.

Harden has a ton more help on offense, between the talent of players like Gordon, Anderson, Ariza, Nene and Lou Williams midway through to being in the incredibly PG friendly offense of D'Antoni. While there was more emphasis on Harden throwing longer passes, they were easier in a way because a lot of it was guys standing there and him reacting to help defenders coming over. Westbrook in so many ways really had to create something out of nothing for his scorers because he isn't gifted a roster that can chuck 40 3's a game at a good clip no matter how open they are.

Westbrook has his help though, it's just that it comes on defense. The fact that the Thunder had the 10th best defense despite Westbrook playing some pretty horrible D is a testament to his teammates abilities. But neither of these guys are here because of their defense, right? That gives Westbrook the edge, to me. Harden was a bit more efficient and had a bit more assists, but he also had that extra help.

Kawhi is incredible and him leading the Spurs to another 60+ wins should be rewarded. Unfortunately, due to the point I make in DPY, I had to also dock him a few points. No fault to himself, but the realities are what they are. I feel like Harden will win though, due to the best combination of box score glory and team wins of the three.

DPY Rudy Gobert.

I could have gone Kawhi, but teams found a way to neutralize his defensive impact for a good amount of games. Yes, they did this by literally burying their star player in the corner of the opposite end of the court, but they still did it. You can't do that with a rim protector like Gobert, and Kawhi won the last two so he can spread the love lol. Green is another good choice and I feel like the voters will choose him. It's "his turn" after finishing 2nd the last two years. I feel like sports voters do stuff like this sometimes.

MIP Karl-Anthony Towns.

Over the last 45 games, Towns averaged 38.1 MPG, 28.2 PTS, 12.8 REB, 2.5 AST, 1.2 BLK and 2.6 TO while shooting .595/.426/.849 from the floor. For the season, he had 18 games of 30-39 points and 3 games of 40-49 points after 3 and 0 last year. He had 20 games of 15-19 rebounds and 3 of 20+ rebounds after having 7 and 1 last year.

Sixth Man Eric Gordon.

COY Brad Stevens.

D'Antoni is getting a ton of love, and granted, but he won only two more games than Stevens. This was despite having the arguable MVP and 6th Man of the Year, as well as an overall roster capable of chucking 40 3's a game at a good clip. Houston has so much narrative malarkey on their side, I'm not sure why it doesn't cancel out for each other a bit like Kawhi and Pop seem to.

ROY Malcolm Brogdon.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-13-2017, 09:51 AM
Not sure why I'm seeing Brad Stevens votes? Can anyone come up with an actual argument that he's the COY? 53 games is underachieving for the kind of roster they have. I definitely look at coaches like D'Antoni/Spo and Pop who have found success solely due to system they have the team playing under, as the only wise choices here.

TheDish87
04-13-2017, 10:09 AM
they improved from 48 wins last year and fought off the Cvs for the top seed. Stevens absolute deserves consideration.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-13-2017, 11:06 AM
Wow 5 win increase! They fought off the try hard Cavs? Boy was I wrong.

tp13baby
04-13-2017, 11:07 AM
MVP: Harden - Westbrook has a strong case for best individual season - but leading a team with the 10th best record in the league is not enough to win MVP for me, especially when their top attribute is their defense.

DPOY: Draymond - The man who guards smalls and bigs at an elite level. 12th in BPG, #1 in SPG. Top 3 in Deflections, Defensive Win Shares, Defensive box +/- and defensive rating. Day in, day out he's the most dynamic defender on the court and due for a DPOY after the past couple runner-ups.

MIP: Porter - Efficiency increases across the board despite the higher usage was impressive, down to reducing his already great Turnover rate to being the best in the NBA this season.

6MOY: Iguodala - Just been a breath of fresh air on both sides of the floor all year for GS. I know this is the award that generally goes to the best bench scorer, but I'm taking Iguodala's overall impact over any other bench piece this season. Gordon would be #2 for me, but he's all O and the advanced metrics back Iggy.

COY: Spo - Helping to keep his team in a good enough place mentally to turn that ship around is incredible.

ROY: Embiid - Just by far the best rookie who we saw this season, and actually had the most rookie Player of the Month acknowledgements (3) despite his limited time on the court. His comp is just too weak and he was just too good to give it to anyone else imo.

Isn't this counter intuitive since a guy like Jokic who increased his usage and became a top 10 efficiency guy, and advanced stats have him above all centers except Gobert?

MVP-Westbrook
DPOY-Gobert
6th-Gordon
Coach-D'Antoni
MIP- Giannis
ROY- Saric

FOXHOUND
04-13-2017, 11:35 AM
Not sure why I'm seeing Brad Stevens votes? Can anyone come up with an actual argument that he's the COY? 53 games is underachieving for the kind of roster they have. I definitely look at coaches like D'Antoni/Spo and Pop who have found success solely due to system they have the team playing under, as the only wise choices here.

I'm more interested to hear an argument to why this kind of roster should be winning more than 53-games? How many did they underachieve by? Bradley missed 17 games and their bigs besides Horford are pretty dreadful.


Wow 5 win increase! They fought off the try hard Cavs? Boy was I wrong.

So you're penalizing him for also doing a great job coaching last year?

JasonJohnHorn
04-13-2017, 11:37 AM
MVP: Leonard
DPOY: Leonard
ROY: That guy who is always injured from Philly.
MIP: Don't care.
6M: Iggy (not because he was particularly great this year, but for fawks sake, he's had this things stolen at least twice now!---I know, not a legit reason)
COY: Pop (60+ wins? For real? And at least he's has a defensive scheme unlike 'Antoni)

JasonJohnHorn
04-13-2017, 11:43 AM
I'm interested in hearing the argument for a non-starter who averaged 8/7/1 winning ROY.

The non-starter part is huge to me. If he was so good as a starter, he should have gotten more than 18 MPG, knocked Noah out of the lineup (who was ****ing terrible), and done more than that stat line.

I think it would just be a matter of the fact that once you take the best player out of the equation and discount him because of games-played, it's really just an open race. Willy's a better rebounder, and has a higher FG%. So there's that. And you can't fault Willy for being on a team where he's got to play behind Prozi, while Saric only started 12 more games and in far more minutes got significantly fewer rebounds.


This ROY award is up in the air, and I'm not opposed to Saric getting it (I'll go with Knees-O-Glass myself), but there is certainly a case for Willy.

warfelg
04-13-2017, 11:51 AM
I think it would just be a matter of the fact that once you take the best player out of the equation and discount him because of games-played, it's really just an open race. Willy's a better rebounder, and has a higher FG%. So there's that. And you can't fault Willy for being on a team where he's got to play behind Prozi, while Saric only started 12 more games and in far more minutes got significantly fewer rebounds.


This ROY award is up in the air, and I'm not opposed to Saric getting it (I'll go with Knees-O-Glass myself), but there is certainly a case for Willy.

I guess to me it comes down to this:
Neither Willy nor Brogdan were focal points on their teams. Embiid and Saric both were. So efficiency naturally would take a hit from that.

The other part is Embiid and Saric were the A guys on a team that went from 9 to 28 wins. And I know that we added other parts (Sergio and Hendo being the main two) I think that voters are going to look at a rookie being the leader of a team to make a nearly 20 win jump and be hard pressed to vote someone over them.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-13-2017, 11:52 AM
I'm more interested to hear an argument to why this kind of roster should be winning more than 53-games? How many did they underachieve by? Bradley missed 17 games and their bigs besides Horford are pretty dreadful.

I just consider they had an "MVP" caliber player in Thomas and a very solid starting lineup. If you were to tell me before the season started that the Celtics were to win 56-57 games I wouldn't disagree. 17 games isn't all that much, and there's Smart who's more than capable of filling in. In a small ball league, who needs good bigs to be successful anymore?


So you're penalizing him for also doing a great job coaching last year?
Last year I thought he could have been COY. It's all about making the most out of your roster for me when it comes to coaching stature.

TheDish87
04-13-2017, 11:58 AM
Wow 5 win increase! They fought off the try hard Cavs? Boy was I wrong.

i dnot think he should win but there is no reason to write him off as a contender.

Jamiecballer
04-13-2017, 12:09 PM
I guess it means nothing.

no, it's means something. i just have no reason to think that Thomas has any more positive influence on his teammates than James does his, and even if i did I would be unwilling to balance superior play on an entire half of the court against it.

having said that, and i don't want to open a can of worms here, but if leadership is a major criteria for you how could you possibly justify support for you know who? it's possible you don't support him for MVP but we did have pretty lengthy dialog about him in a thread devoted to the topic.

rhino17
04-13-2017, 12:16 PM
Not sure why I'm seeing Brad Stevens votes? Can anyone come up with an actual argument that he's the COY? 53 games is underachieving for the kind of roster they have. I definitely look at coaches like D'Antoni/Spo and Pop who have found success solely due to system they have the team playing under, as the only wise choices here.

Stevens had ZERO players considered superstars before the season, and outside of Isiah Thomas its just a team with a bunch of role players. D'Antoni has been great but he also has a top 5 player. Spo has ZERO argument for me because his team was still garbage record wise

Hellcrooner
04-13-2017, 12:27 PM
MVP: Leonard
DPOY: Green
ROY: Willy Hernangomez
MIP: Jokic
6M: Pau
COY: Pops

HandsOnTheWheel
04-13-2017, 12:31 PM
Stevens had ZERO players considered superstars before the season, and outside of Isiah Thomas its just a team with a bunch of role players. D'Antoni has been great but he also has a top 5 player. Spo has ZERO argument for me because his team was still garbage record wise

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Horford was considered a role player coming in to the season? That's news to me. I dig the sig btw :cool:

IndyRealist
04-13-2017, 12:32 PM
I guess to me it comes down to this:
Neither Willy nor Brogdan were focal points on their teams. Embiid and Saric both were. So efficiency naturally would take a hit from that.

The other part is Embiid and Saric were the A guys on a team that went from 9 to 28 wins. And I know that we added other parts (Sergio and Hendo being the main two) I think that voters are going to look at a rookie being the leader of a team to make a nearly 20 win jump and be hard pressed to vote someone over them.

Usage curves are a myth. There is no provable negative correlation between usage and efficiency.

ROY is an individual award, I don't think anyone's ever included team win improvement as a condition. Regardless, their win total has much more to do with McConnell, Holmes, and Covington than it does Saric. He doesn't get ROY credit because of his teammates' productivity. Otherwise Darko Milicic would have been ROY.

Bruno
04-13-2017, 01:18 PM
winners/personal voting order:

MVP: Kawhi- Harden- Westbrook- Curry- Thomas

DPOY: Rudy- Kawhi- Draymond

MIP: Giannis- Otto- Beal- IT- Hayward

Sixth man: Iggy- Pau- Gordon- James Johnson

COY: Pop- MDA- Brooks- Spo

ROY: Brogdon- Saric- Murray

TheDish87
04-13-2017, 01:25 PM
i think what separates Saric is the monster games he put up. The others were relatively consistent in their numbers but didnt explode too often, not like Saric did.

Jamiecballer
04-13-2017, 05:01 PM
Not sure why I'm seeing Brad Stevens votes? Can anyone come up with an actual argument that he's the COY? 53 games is underachieving for the kind of roster they have. I definitely look at coaches like D'Antoni/Spo and Pop who have found success solely due to system they have the team playing under, as the only wise choices here.

i agree i'm not totally sure what Stevens has done to deserve serious consideration, although i did enter the season with a high opinion of him as a coach. if the cavs don't seriously underperform stevens would get zero consideration imo which makes it pretty questionable.

actually somebody else pointed out the possibility that they reached 48 wins last year partly because of his good coaching, and that makes his case stronger if that is what you believe.