PDA

View Full Version : How to fix the player rest issue



TylerSL
04-07-2017, 03:40 AM
The league is facing a problem with coaches and players deciding to take games off. Players and coaches choose random road games not to play the stars, ect. There have been many discussions on how to fix the issue such as rest the player(s) at home where they play 41 times a year as opposed to the one time they visit the road city, and don't rest multiple star players at one time (rest Lebron one night, Kyrie the next). These solutions may help the problem, but they wouldn't fix them.

The players and coaches are maintaining that it's all part of trying to win a championship, and while that is true, fans get screwed over. Players get paid, teams get ticket revenue, fans don't get to see the product they paid for. If a star player(s) rests than NBA teams should either give the fans their money back or give the fans a partial reimbursement if they still want to go to the game. For example it costs at least $160 bucks to get decent Warriors tickets so if they decide to rest Curry, Durant, Draymond, and Klay all at once, as they have before, you should get back maybe $80 bucks, so half off. Teams should be willing to reimburse fans because it's ultimately managements decision to allow them to not play (coaches and executives).

Also, if owners are going to give fans their money back, players who do not dress simply to rest with no apparent injury should be subjected to not receiving pay for the game. It's literally not showing up to work. Lebron's salary this season is $33,285,709, or $405,923.28/game. If he's not dressing to rest, he shouldn't be paid the $405,923.28 he would typically receive for playing. A last thing that should happen is the league should impose sanctions against franchises that rest players for nationally televised games because it screws over the networks. If TNT was airing Spurs/Warriors in prime time and all the stars sat, the Warrior and Spurs franchises should be responsible for partially reimbursing the network. The league signs a multi-billion dollar television deal and prime time games get destroyed.

If all these rules get put into practice, players may still rest but it would not be the league-wide problem it has become and nobody would get screwed over at all. The players would still get rest, the fans/networks would get some money back, and the organization doesn't pay the players. It would be a fix to a growing problem that was started in lieu to the actual problem in the NBA, the season is just too long

The original problem is that there are simply too many games in a season and it puts unnecessary strain on the players. NBA games are a two and one half hour sprint with very few breaks. It is a very confined space with every player on the court constantly running. Players who play 75% of the game (36 minutes) or more will either have nothing left by the end of the season or be more prone to injury. This is why the coaches and players want rest, they manufactured a problem trying to solve a problem. The 2016-2017 NBA season started October 25th when the Cavaliers hosted the Knicks and it will conclude on April 12th, 2017 with 28 of the 30 teams playing. Every team plays 82 games in that 169 day span.

Not only is that too many games for the players, it's too many for the fans. It doesn't take 82 games to determine the pecking order in the league. There are some surprises every season but fans and media know where teams stand by all-star break at the latest. The NBA could easily cut back to 70 games without shortening the season many days so they could spread games out better and it would benefit everyone tremendously.

The NBA playoffs are also too long because over half the league gets in. Nobody cares to see the Warriors/Blazers round 1 series that will happen this year. What should happen is the league should reward the top teams in each conference and allow them to bypass into the semis. Like football, only the top six in each conference should get in with the top two in the conferences starting in the conference semis. Round 1 would have to be shortened to a best of 5 series between the 3-6, 4-5 seeds.

Shortening the season to 70 games over 160 days (as opposed to 82 games in 169 days) would allow the NBA season to conclude in early April as opposed to mid April. Starting the playoffs in early April and having a shorter first round series would allow the conference semis to begin by mid-April, the conference finals to possibly spill into May, and the NBA Finals conclude mid-late May at the latest. That would make the NBA off-season officially June-September. A reduced pre-season would start in October (maybe 3 or 4 preseason games as opposed to the 8 or so they do now) and the season would begin at the normal start.

Yes, the owners will never be in favor of this because it would mean less games (especially the playoff games) which is less money but until they shorten the season players and coaches are going to try to get the rest they need to make their championship runs. As long as players are missing games, fans and networks are being screwed because they aren't getting the product they paid for, and it's a bad look for the league. There are measures that can be taken to ensure nobody gets the short end of the stick (as mentioned at the top) but until they fix this issue, players taking rest isn't going away.

Fewer games that are more spread out, reduced playoff length, longer off-season, and shortened pre-season is the way to go for the NBA. That would do more for teams resting players than any punishment. I only think the rule changes above should be put in place because it protects the people who pay for the sport. NBA does all these things they would no longer have this issue.

FOXHOUND
04-07-2017, 05:04 AM
The NBA has been playing an 82-game season since the 1967-68 season. With all of the advancements in training, medicine and healing techniques, diet and self preservation, air travel and even footwear since, there's no reason why this should all of a sudden be an issue.

bklynny67
04-07-2017, 06:29 AM
This isn't an issue. The league can't do **** about it and they shouldn't be able to. If a coach wants to rest a player, they have every right to do so.

If they wanna fix something wrong with the league, cut down to 6 playoff teams from each conference. The fact there's multiple below 500 teams making the playoffs every year is embarrassing and literally pointless.

archdevil84
04-07-2017, 08:01 AM
The league is facing a problem with coaches and players deciding to take games off. Players and coaches choose random road games not to play the stars, ect. There have been many discussions on how to fix the issue such as rest the player(s) at home where they play 41 times a year as opposed to the one time they visit the road city, and don't rest multiple star players at one time (rest Lebron one night, Kyrie the next). These solutions may help the problem, but they wouldn't fix them.

The players and coaches are maintaining that it's all part of trying to win a championship, and while that is true, fans get screwed over. Players get paid, teams get ticket revenue, fans don't get to see the product they paid for. If a star player(s) rests than NBA teams should either give the fans their money back or give the fans a partial reimbursement if they still want to go to the game. For example it costs at least $160 bucks to get decent Warriors tickets so if they decide to rest Curry, Durant, Draymond, and Klay all at once, as they have before, you should get back maybe $80 bucks, so half off. Teams should be willing to reimburse fans because it's ultimately managements decision to allow them to not play (coaches and executives).

Also, if owners are going to give fans their money back, players who do not dress simply to rest with no apparent injury should be subjected to not receiving pay for the game. It's literally not showing up to work. Lebron's salary this season is $33,285,709, or $405,923.28/game. If he's not dressing to rest, he shouldn't be paid the $405,923.28 he would typically receive for playing. A last thing that should happen is the league should impose sanctions against franchises that rest players for nationally televised games because it screws over the networks. If TNT was airing Spurs/Warriors in prime time and all the stars sat, the Warrior and Spurs franchises should be responsible for partially reimbursing the network. The league signs a multi-billion dollar television deal and prime time games get destroyed.

If all these rules get put into practice, players may still rest but it would not be the league-wide problem it has become and nobody would get screwed over at all. The players would still get rest, the fans/networks would get some money back, and the organization doesn't pay the players. It would be a fix to a growing problem that was started in lieu to the actual problem in the NBA, the season is just too long

The original problem is that there are simply too many games in a season and it puts unnecessary strain on the players. NBA games are a two and one half hour sprint with very few breaks. It is a very confined space with every player on the court constantly running. Players who play 75% of the game (36 minutes) or more will either have nothing left by the end of the season or be more prone to injury. This is why the coaches and players want rest, they manufactured a problem trying to solve a problem. The 2016-2017 NBA season started October 25th when the Cavaliers hosted the Knicks and it will conclude on April 12th, 2017 with 28 of the 30 teams playing. Every team plays 82 games in that 169 day span.

Not only is that too many games for the players, it's too many for the fans. It doesn't take 82 games to determine the pecking order in the league. There are some surprises every season but fans and media know where teams stand by all-star break at the latest. The NBA could easily cut back to 70 games without shortening the season many days so they could spread games out better and it would benefit everyone tremendously.

The NBA playoffs are also too long because over half the league gets in. Nobody cares to see the Warriors/Blazers round 1 series that will happen this year. What should happen is the league should reward the top teams in each conference and allow them to bypass into the semis. Like football, only the top six in each conference should get in with the top two in the conferences starting in the conference semis. Round 1 would have to be shortened to a best of 5 series between the 3-6, 4-5 seeds.

Shortening the season to 70 games over 160 days (as opposed to 82 games in 169 days) would allow the NBA season to conclude in early April as opposed to mid April. Starting the playoffs in early April and having a shorter first round series would allow the conference semis to begin by mid-April, the conference finals to possibly spill into May, and the NBA Finals conclude mid-late May at the latest. That would make the NBA off-season officially June-September. A reduced pre-season would start in October (maybe 3 or 4 preseason games as opposed to the 8 or so they do now) and the season would begin at the normal start.

Yes, the owners will never be in favor of this because it would mean less games (especially the playoff games) which is less money but until they shorten the season players and coaches are going to try to get the rest they need to make their championship runs. As long as players are missing games, fans and networks are being screwed because they aren't getting the product they paid for, and it's a bad look for the league. There are measures that can be taken to ensure nobody gets the short end of the stick (as mentioned at the top) but until they fix this issue, players taking rest isn't going away.

Fewer games that are more spread out, reduced playoff length, longer off-season, and shortened pre-season is the way to go for the NBA. That would do more for teams resting players than any punishment. I only think the rule changes above should be put in place because it protects the people who pay for the sport. NBA does all these things they would no longer have this issue.

literally every 5 minutes a timeout is called on the floor allowing the players a breather. not to mention the hours and hours it takes to go through free throw procedure, getting the ball out of bounds, technical foul issues etc. imo NBA games take WAY too long and they should reduce the amount of timeouts each team has and maybe make a new rule for the free throws where if you make the first one it counts as two points and if you miss the first one you can stil attempt a second one to try and get 1 point atleast

Scoots
04-07-2017, 08:35 AM
There is no player rest issue.

ewing
04-07-2017, 09:18 AM
tldr

IndyRealist
04-07-2017, 10:12 AM
As far as I can tell, players do not choose to rest. Coaches choose to rest their players. Why should the players lose income over that? If the team wanted a player to play and he refused, he would be fined. I don't think this was very well thought out.

cheetos185
04-07-2017, 10:30 AM
The NBA has been playing an 82-game season since the 1967-68 season. With all of the advancements in training, medicine and healing techniques, diet and self preservation, air travel and even footwear since, there's no reason why this should all of a sudden be an issue.
This guys want guaranteed contracts now want to work less hours/ vacation days lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Scoots
04-07-2017, 10:41 AM
As far as I can tell, players do not choose to rest. Coaches choose to rest their players. Why should the players lose income over that? If the team wanted a player to play and he refused, he would be fined. I don't think this was very well thought out.

I'd say yes ... somewhat. LeBron decided to take a 2 week vacation mid-season 2 years ago. Klay Thompson took a day off to visit his sick grandfather. Someone I'm drawing a blank on took time for a newborn baby. These are not injury issues and do not originate from the trainers or coaches, but for the most part people are understanding of them. And the fact is that DNPCD happens all the time ... this really is a non-issue.

IndyRealist
04-07-2017, 10:45 AM
I'd say yes ... somewhat. LeBron decided to take a 2 week vacation mid-season 2 years ago. Klay Thompson took a day off to visit his sick grandfather. Someone I'm drawing a blank on took time for a newborn baby. These are not injury issues and do not originate from the trainers or coaches, but for the most part people are understanding of them. And the fact is that DNPCD happens all the time ... this really is a non-issue.

I don't think visiting sick family or having a newborn falls under "resting players" though. Lebron's vacation certainly falls under the rest issue, but it's more the exception that proves the rule. What other player has taken two weeks off just because?

MygirlhatesCod
04-07-2017, 10:59 AM
The NBA has been playing an 82-game season since the 1967-68 season. With all of the advancements in training, medicine and healing techniques, diet and self preservation, air travel and even footwear since, there's no reason why this should all of a sudden be an issue.

well said!! the argument that all of the sudden its too much is insane, especially with how much money players get.

DanG
04-07-2017, 11:51 AM
Nick Wright brought up a good solution to the whole resting issue imo.

The team who wins the regular season matchup gets HCA in the playoffs. Seedings stay the same. If the season matchup is tied you go by record. Adds more meaning to regular season games.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 11:54 AM
I don't think visiting sick family or having a newborn falls under "resting players" though. Lebron's vacation certainly falls under the rest issue, but it's more the exception that proves the rule. What other player has taken two weeks off just because?

True, but they are players not playing due to no injury issue ... and nobody is complaining. It's just childish to me to complain about a player getting a night off because the trainer said they need it, just as it would be for someone to complain about a player missing a game to visit sick family.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 12:01 PM
This isn't an issue. The league can't do **** about it and they shouldn't be able to. If a coach wants to rest a player, they have every right to do so.

If they wanna fix something wrong with the league, cut down to 6 playoff teams from each conference. The fact there's multiple below 500 teams making the playoffs every year is embarrassing and literally pointless.

No! Coaches should be forced to play every player every game! Pop should be forced to play Nicolas Laprovittola at least 3 minutes a game! No DNPCD is allowed anymore!

Scoots
04-07-2017, 12:05 PM
Nick Wright brought up a good solution to the whole resting issue imo.

The team who wins the regular season matchup gets HCA in the playoffs. Seedings stay the same. If the season matchup is tied you go by record. Adds more meaning to regular season games.

So if you play all 3 games against an opponent in the first month of the season when you are missing 2 starters to injury then kill it the rest of the season and have a 15 game lead in the standings by the end of the year you lose homecourt for the playoffs between a 1 seed and an 8 seed? No thanks.

Vee-Rex
04-07-2017, 12:14 PM
The NBA has been playing an 82-game season since the 1967-68 season. With all of the advancements in training, medicine and healing techniques, diet and self preservation, air travel and even footwear since, there's no reason why this should all of a sudden be an issue.

This is what uninformed people don't understand.

Those same advancements are encouraging more rest. Modern/futuristic advances in medicine are emphasizing this importance 10 times over.

Just because my granddad ate pork and potatoes and desserts all the time back in his day doesn't mean it was a smart decision.

Many long-term NBA players have so many joint/tissue problems by the time they reach 50 years of age that it's ridiculous. Yeah, pay me millions and I'd play 48 minutes 82 games too - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't opt to rest and take better care of my body if given the opportunity.

Unfortunately, this discussion often goes nowhere though.

TylerSL
04-07-2017, 01:11 PM
This isn't an issue. The league can't do **** about it and they shouldn't be able to. If a coach wants to rest a player, they have every right to do so.

If they wanna fix something wrong with the league, cut down to 6 playoff teams from each conference. The fact there's multiple below 500 teams making the playoffs every year is embarrassing and literally pointless.

The league can't do anything when their teams are forcing fans and networks, who dole out loads of cash, to accept an inferior product? I disagree, see OP.

TylerSL
04-07-2017, 01:13 PM
The NBA has been playing an 82-game season since the 1967-68 season. With all of the advancements in training, medicine and healing techniques, diet and self preservation, air travel and even footwear since, there's no reason why this should all of a sudden be an issue.

Continuing to do something just because that's how it's always been done is the single worst reason to continue to do something. Doctors implore more rest for players, the NBA should have shortened the season years and years ago.

ManRam
04-07-2017, 01:13 PM
This is what uninformed people don't understand.

Those same advancements are encouraging more rest. Modern/futuristic advances in medicine are emphasizing this importance 10 times over.

Just because my granddad ate pork and potatoes and desserts all the time back in his day doesn't mean it was a smart decision.

Many long-term NBA players have so many joint/tissue problems by the time they reach 50 years of age that it's ridiculous. Yeah, pay me millions and I'd play 48 minutes 82 games too - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't opt to rest and take better care of my body if given the opportunity.

Unfortunately, this discussion often goes nowhere though.

Exactly. Future health matters, but obviously the team's concern is short term health, and resting is a sensible approach to help increase the odds that players hold up into the playoffs.

I also think modern basketball is far more physically demanding. That's not necessarily to be confused with physicality like Charles Oakley just wrecking guys, though I think the game is also that too. Players are stronger, can jump higher, can move faster, etc. All of that is going to lead to more problems than 70s basketball where people moved in slow motion and "fundamentally-sound" offense meant moving very little in your very-frequent half court offensive sets.

If there is a rest issue, it's not something that you're fixing in any other way besides cutting down on the number of games played. That's a loss of money, so I think ultimately this is just something people will have to learn to accept and soon enough no one will be bothered by it. It sucks for the occasional fan that doesn't get to see someone they want to see play, but teams and players are here to win, and if resting is something they think helps them ultimately do that, then they should be able to do that.

TylerSL
04-07-2017, 01:16 PM
No! Coaches should be forced to play every player every game! Pop should be forced to play Nicolas Laprovittola at least 3 minutes a game! No DNPCD is allowed anymore!

Not dressing and DNP CD are two different things.

TylerSL
04-07-2017, 01:19 PM
This is what uninformed people don't understand.

Those same advancements are encouraging more rest. Modern/futuristic advances in medicine are emphasizing this importance 10 times over.

Just because my granddad ate pork and potatoes and desserts all the time back in his day doesn't mean it was a smart decision.

Many long-term NBA players have so many joint/tissue problems by the time they reach 50 years of age that it's ridiculous. Yeah, pay me millions and I'd play 48 minutes 82 games too - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't opt to rest and take better care of my body if given the opportunity.

Unfortunately, this discussion often goes nowhere though.

Good post.

TylerSL
04-07-2017, 01:21 PM
Exactly. Future health matters, but obviously the team's concern is short term health, and resting is a sensible approach to help increase the odds that players hold up into the playoffs.

I also think modern basketball is far more physically demanding. That's not necessarily to be confused with physicality like Charles Oakley just wrecking guys, though I think the game is also that too. Players are stronger, can jump higher, can move faster, etc. All of that is going to lead to more problems than 70s basketball where people moved in slow motion and "fundamentally-sound" offense meant moving very little in your very-frequent half court offensive sets.

If there is a rest issue, it's not something that you're fixing in any other way besides cutting down on the number of games played. That's a loss of money, so I think ultimately this is just something people will have to learn to accept and soon enough no one will be bothered by it. It sucks for the occasional fan that doesn't get to see someone they want to see play, but teams and players are here to win, and if resting is something they think helps them ultimately do that, then they should be able to do that.

Agreed, I tried to articulate that players and coaches today, by resting players so much, have created a problem trying to solve the problem, which is the season is too long. The longer it takes owners to come around on this the worse it's going to get.

IndyRealist
04-07-2017, 01:29 PM
Athletes are finely tuned machines these days. In the 70s they didn't have to drink gallons of gatorade to keep from cramping, either. It's like complaining that your Maserati shouldn't need to be fine tuned to be 100% because your 80s Buick went years with nothing but oil changes.

Vee-Rex
04-07-2017, 01:53 PM
Agreed, I tried to articulate that players and coaches today, by resting players so much, have created a problem trying to solve the problem, which is the season is too long. The longer it takes owners to come around on this the worse it's going to get.

Yup. I've always felt the season is too long.

I think if they change the length of the season people will gradually come around to it. I mean, do we really need 82 games instead of 74 (as an example)? Would those extra 8 games make that big of a difference?

If the season started in mid October (preseason is too long anyway and yeah I know, NBA wants to avoid clashing with the MLB playoffs as much as possible - but who cares since baseball's season start around the time the NBA playoffs anyway), and ended in mid/late April with only 74 games, that may eliminate b2bs almost entirely.

It would probably justify ticket prices going up a little bit too. Make the change and in a few years no one would care one bit.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 02:12 PM
This is what uninformed people don't understand.

Those same advancements are encouraging more rest. Modern/futuristic advances in medicine are emphasizing this importance 10 times over.

Just because my granddad ate pork and potatoes and desserts all the time back in his day doesn't mean it was a smart decision.

Many long-term NBA players have so many joint/tissue problems by the time they reach 50 years of age that it's ridiculous. Yeah, pay me millions and I'd play 48 minutes 82 games too - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't opt to rest and take better care of my body if given the opportunity.

Unfortunately, this discussion often goes nowhere though.

We all understand that 48 minutes a night is too much and don't complain about that (much) ... it's all pointless because there will always be people saying "Wilt played MORE than 48 minutes a game, and he was being paid peanuts compared to these kids today ..." It's not a real issue, it's trumped up BS created by the huge amount of coverage of the game today and the fact that social media allows a nothing story to live on and on and on.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 02:16 PM
Not dressing and DNP CD are two different things.

They are different, but that doesn't mean they don't overlap. Only 13 players can dress for a game. The two players not dressing are not dressing and not playing because of a coaches decision and no other reason. Therefore, after the game you will often see on box scores that show it this way "DNP - CD". Or for one glorious Spurs game "DNP - Old" for Tim Duncan.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 02:18 PM
Agreed, I tried to articulate that players and coaches today, by resting players so much, have created a problem trying to solve the problem, which is the season is too long. The longer it takes owners to come around on this the worse it's going to get.

76 game season is not too far to fall for the league though so that should be the target. Drop 6 games from the schedule and you get 2 games for every team of the other conference, 3 games for the teams not in your division, and 4 games for each team in your division. Drop 6 games and the 3 pre-season games and no road back to backs need happen again.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 02:19 PM
Athletes are finely tuned machines these days. In the 70s they didn't have to drink gallons of gatorade to keep from cramping, either. It's like complaining that your Maserati shouldn't need to be fine tuned to be 100% because your 80s Buick went years with nothing but oil changes.

Don't use cars as an analogy. ALL cars are FAR FAR FAR more powerful, faster, safer, and reliable than at any point in the past. And speaking of someone who had a buick in the 80s ... they broke far more often than my Volvo or Subaru do now.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 02:20 PM
Yup. I've always felt the season is too long.

I think if they change the length of the season people will gradually come around to it. I mean, do we really need 82 games instead of 74 (as an example)? Would those extra 8 games make that big of a difference?

If the season started in mid October (preseason is too long anyway and yeah I know, NBA wants to avoid clashing with the MLB playoffs as much as possible - but who cares since baseball's season start around the time the NBA playoffs anyway), and ended in mid/late April with only 74 games, that may eliminate b2bs almost entirely.

It would probably justify ticket prices going up a little bit too. Make the change and in a few years no one would care one bit.

76 is the answer.

IndyRealist
04-07-2017, 03:16 PM
Don't use cars as an analogy. ALL cars are FAR FAR FAR more powerful, faster, safer, and reliable than at any point in the past. And speaking of someone who had a buick in the 80s ... they broke far more often than my Volvo or Subaru do now.

I think that kind of makes my point :)

My buick was a tank. I was too young to know that I had to do anything other than oil changes, and it ran forever. On the 3rd accident to the front left corner (only 1 was my fault) the frame finally broke and had to be totalled.

Jamiecballer
04-07-2017, 03:26 PM
The NBA has been playing an 82-game season since the 1967-68 season. With all of the advancements in training, medicine and healing techniques, diet and self preservation, air travel and even footwear since, there's no reason why this should all of a sudden be an issue.

sure there is. everyone has seen gregg popovich do it for a decade or longer with marvelous success, and decided it was at least partially responsible for the graceful decline and extended careers of at least 3 superstars. it's foolish imo to think that this is going to go away anytime soon. if it benefits the players, or at least the organizations believe it does, then it won't be long until all teams are doing it. 100% guaranteed.

Jamiecballer
04-07-2017, 03:31 PM
This is what uninformed people don't understand.

Those same advancements are encouraging more rest. Modern/futuristic advances in medicine are emphasizing this importance 10 times over.

Just because my granddad ate pork and potatoes and desserts all the time back in his day doesn't mean it was a smart decision.

Many long-term NBA players have so many joint/tissue problems by the time they reach 50 years of age that it's ridiculous. Yeah, pay me millions and I'd play 48 minutes 82 games too - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't opt to rest and take better care of my body if given the opportunity.

Unfortunately, this discussion often goes nowhere though.

nicely put. what i don't understand about this whole issue is why people seem to think that there is all of the sudden a lack of desire to compete. players are every bit as competitive as they've always been. the reason it's becoming more prevalent is because someone somewhere has told them or demonstrated to them the value in doing it. end of story. and in sports nobody is going to ignore a factor that could provide a competitive advantage.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 03:35 PM
I think that kind of makes my point :)

My buick was a tank. I was too young to know that I had to do anything other than oil changes, and it ran forever. On the 3rd accident to the front left corner (only 1 was my fault) the frame finally broke and had to be totalled.

The point is that todays cars are more reliable while todays players are less reliable.

My (parked) Buick was hit by a garbage truck and knocked over a curb and a green divide. I went out and fired it up and drove it back on to the road, used a chain to pull out the bumper and fender of the disabled garbage truck so he could finish his rounds. All that was broken on the Buick was the backup light lens that would have cost me $5 if I ever cared to replace it. Built like a TANK.

http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8448/7901279638_59678a896a.jpg

ManRam
04-07-2017, 04:10 PM
nicely put. what i don't understand about this whole issue is why people seem to think that there is all of the sudden a lack of desire to compete. players are every bit as competitive as they've always been. the reason it's becoming more prevalent is because someone somewhere has told them or demonstrated to them the value in doing it. end of story. and in sports nobody is going to ignore a factor that could provide a competitive advantage.

Agreed. Every time a coach chooses to rest a player and a player is fine with it they're doing it with an eye towards the real prize and as an effort to maximize their odds to win in the playoffs. Winning in the playoffs is all that matters so I think it's absurd to criticize someone's drive or competitiveness because they rest. There's a reason the rest issue is really only ever controversial when it's the best players on the best teams.

LOb0
04-07-2017, 04:29 PM
Its actually kinda simple. After the schedule is released, teams must file dates in which players will be resting. That way the NBA can change games from being nationally televised that players are sitting and it would make people aware ahead of time to not play huge ticket prices.

Teams could still make up a fake reasons why player X isn't playing tonight, but it would at least stop teams mass resting starters. If the team does attempt to rest starters without a filed date heavy fines are levied.

KingPosey
04-07-2017, 05:26 PM
Its actually kinda simple. After the schedule is released, teams must file dates in which players will be resting. That way the NBA can change games from being nationally televised that players are sitting and it would make people aware ahead of time to not play huge ticket prices.

Teams could still make up a fake reasons why player X isn't playing tonight, but it would at least stop teams mass resting starters. If the team does attempt to rest starters without a filed date heavy fines are levied.I forget, does he make that shot in your gif?

IndyRealist
04-07-2017, 06:26 PM
The point is that todays cars are more reliable while todays players are less reliable.

My (parked) Buick was hit by a garbage truck and knocked over a curb and a green divide. I went out and fired it up and drove it back on to the road, used a chain to pull out the bumper and fender of the disabled garbage truck so he could finish his rounds. All that was broken on the Buick was the backup light lens that would have cost me $5 if I ever cared to replace it. Built like a TANK.

http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8448/7901279638_59678a896a.jpg

I'd say players aren't any less reliable, they simply require more maintenance to stay at peak performance because they are precision instruments. Players back in the day would eat cheeseburgers and down shots before games. Now it's carefully managed meal plans designed by nutritionists, which lets them play at a higher athletic level. Are players now pansies because they don't eat a bag full of McDonalds before games?

It's the same with rest. Players now require more rest to maintain the peak athletic level that benefits their team. That doesn't make them less reliable, it just makes them better performing machines.

LOb0
04-07-2017, 06:45 PM
I forget, does he make that shot in your gif?

Airball.

FOXHOUND
04-07-2017, 07:08 PM
This is what uninformed people don't understand.

Those same advancements are encouraging more rest. Modern/futuristic advances in medicine are emphasizing this importance 10 times over.

Just because my granddad ate pork and potatoes and desserts all the time back in his day doesn't mean it was a smart decision.

Many long-term NBA players have so many joint/tissue problems by the time they reach 50 years of age that it's ridiculous. Yeah, pay me millions and I'd play 48 minutes 82 games too - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't opt to rest and take better care of my body if given the opportunity.

Unfortunately, this discussion often goes nowhere though.

Yes, I understand this. However, they should play the schedule. Careers last much longer now too, even without the current rest trend. Players stay at their prime level or close to it for far longer than they used to. Players maintaining an All-Star level well into their 30's has been fairly normal for a while. Look at Vince Carter and what he's doing at 40. Injuries? A torn ACL used to be basically a career ending injury. Now, there are players who suffer a torn ACL and almost always come back as if it didn't happen. Some players suffer it two or three times and come back to continue their career.

I'm not saying players should play 48 minutes, but I don't buy this idea that players play with the same intensity that they used to and that the game is too taxing to play 82 anymore. I have my sympathies for aging athletes but that only goes so far. Maybe they should be better educated about it? Don't pursue a career in athletics if you don't want to deal with any long term effects that it may have on your body.

Now, if the owners and players want to get together and agree to a shortened season of 76-games or whatever, citing the science and benefits of the extra rest days, while also agreeing to lose out on that money in the process? I have no problem with that.

FOXHOUND
04-07-2017, 07:08 PM
Airball.

It's the perfect analogy for his career. All flash, no substance.

FOXHOUND
04-07-2017, 07:19 PM
sure there is. everyone has seen gregg popovich do it for a decade or longer with marvelous success, and decided it was at least partially responsible for the graceful decline and extended careers of at least 3 superstars. it's foolish imo to think that this is going to go away anytime soon. if it benefits the players, or at least the organizations believe it does, then it won't be long until all teams are doing it. 100% guaranteed.

I'm sorry, but which 3? David Robinson was playing 80 and 78 games in his last years in his mid 30's. He started doing it with Duncan in the late 2000's, really, but that had as much to do with his in game role shrinking as it did resting him games. You can't be meaning Tony Parker, right? By 32, his game was completely a shell of itself. Ginobili has come off the bench his whole career, only averaged 30 MPG twice and 31 tops and has been under 25 MPG since 2011-12. His workload on the court has steadily shrunken over the same time.

In terms of the scientific benefits? How can it possibly be proven that it truly helps extend careers when there isn't nearly enough of a sample size to do that? To my knowledge, the only thing it works to do is help from players exerting too much during a game when they may worn down from heavy travel and/or many games in a short span. This can increase the risk of injury in those games and can damage the teams season. It's a short term benefit thing, really just for trying to cut down the risk of injury.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 08:22 PM
Its actually kinda simple. After the schedule is released, teams must file dates in which players will be resting. That way the NBA can change games from being nationally televised that players are sitting and it would make people aware ahead of time to not play huge ticket prices.

Teams could still make up a fake reasons why player X isn't playing tonight, but it would at least stop teams mass resting starters. If the team does attempt to rest starters without a filed date heavy fines are levied.

Lots of issues here. So right now Kerr rested Curry 1 game this year when the trainers said his performance was falling off because of fatigue. If Kerr had to register the dates in advance he wouldn't know when his fatigue would peak, so he probably gives Curry 10 rest days in the list to the NBA, then if he's okay he sends a notice to the NBA a day or two before to say Curry is going to go for that rest day instead of rest.

You are encouraging teams/players to lie if they need a day off that's not on their list on file. Professional athletes are always injured in some way or another ... they could say they are missing a game for any reason but the players prefer the truth so they say "rest".

Maybe the solution is just for the team to look at the schedule and just forfeit the back to back road games on day 1 of the season. If every team did that I bet the schedule would be adjusted quickly.

Scoots
04-07-2017, 08:33 PM
LeBron James has played around 49500 minutes in his career and has driven huge revenue to all of the teams in the NBA. I don't think the NBA should begrudge him playing 35 minutes less on an arbitrary tuesday in Utah or wherever.

FOXHOUND
04-07-2017, 08:41 PM
LeBron James has played around 49500 minutes in his career and has driven huge revenue to all of the teams in the NBA. I don't think the NBA should begrudge him playing 35 minutes less on an arbitrary tuesday in Utah or wherever.

To be fair, I think he is the one player who can truly get away with the rest argument. His workload has been insanely high, his seasons have been extremely long and he has been in the Olympic program for a long time. The timing of his rest in that Clippers game, with Irving and Love already being ruled out for legitimate reasons, was also as sensible as it gets.

ewing
04-07-2017, 08:42 PM
the only answer is to virtually play the games.

da ThRONe
04-07-2017, 09:40 PM
Only way is to reduce the games per season.

ewing
04-07-2017, 10:05 PM
Only way is to reduce the games per season.

people are going to get tired

Scoots
04-07-2017, 11:42 PM
The season is adding a week at the start and they are going to try to do away with all of the 4 games in 5 nights and put more rest around road back to backs.

TylerSL
04-07-2017, 11:58 PM
Agreed. Every time a coach chooses to rest a player and a player is fine with it they're doing it with an eye towards the real prize and as an effort to maximize their odds to win in the playoffs. Winning in the playoffs is all that matters so I think it's absurd to criticize someone's drive or competitiveness because they rest. There's a reason the rest issue is really only ever controversial when it's the best players on the best teams.

I don't disagree with the rest thing but when they miss games with no notice or very little notice fans and networks get screwed over because they aren't paying for the top attractions to miss games. The networks are paying the league billions and the fans are the demand for the league, you shouldn't be allowed to screw with that.

Again, I agree that rest is badly needed with these guys and think the season shouldn't be 82 games, but there has to be a safety net for the people who pay for the sport.

LOb0
04-08-2017, 12:00 AM
Lots of issues here. So right now Kerr rested Curry 1 game this year when the trainers said his performance was falling off because of fatigue. If Kerr had to register the dates in advance he wouldn't know when his fatigue would peak, so he probably gives Curry 10 rest days in the list to the NBA, then if he's okay he sends a notice to the NBA a day or two before to say Curry is going to go for that rest day instead of rest.

You are encouraging teams/players to lie if they need a day off that's not on their list on file. Professional athletes are always injured in some way or another ... they could say they are missing a game for any reason but the players prefer the truth so they say "rest".

Maybe the solution is just for the team to look at the schedule and just forfeit the back to back road games on day 1 of the season. If every team did that I bet the schedule would be adjusted quickly.

"Fatigue" when being healthy isn't a reasonable excuse. Everyone is tired.

As for people not being honest, Its kind of like how NBA prohibits under the table deals. It can't be completely enforced but it sure worries people.

TylerSL
04-08-2017, 12:01 AM
76 game season is not too far to fall for the league though so that should be the target. Drop 6 games from the schedule and you get 2 games for every team of the other conference, 3 games for the teams not in your division, and 4 games for each team in your division. Drop 6 games and the 3 pre-season games and no road back to backs need happen again.

I would be ok with that

MygirlhatesCod
04-08-2017, 03:35 AM
so the whole "players like curry would never be good back in the day because the physicality was too intense to allow that" is dead? apparently players need rest because its more demanding in this era.
The more you know....

MygirlhatesCod
04-08-2017, 03:46 AM
isnt the whole concept of making teams/players fatigued the point? who wants it more type ****. i guess thats not good enough with this generation. its a shame that doing extraordinary things under duress isnt in more demand!

Scoots
04-08-2017, 11:19 AM
"Fatigue" when being healthy isn't a reasonable excuse. Everyone is tired.

As for people not being honest, Its kind of like how NBA prohibits under the table deals. It can't be completely enforced but it sure worries people.

So you don't sleep at night when you are healthy? That's cool.

When the trainers go to the coach and tell them that X player is redlining and are ripe for an injury the coach decides to look for an opportunity to rest the player. When the team is traveling every day for the next 7 days and playing 5 games in that span and 2 of those games are home games they are not going to rest for the end result is missing a game to rest to avoid injury and to improve performance in following games.

The real point though is that the league isn't going to forget what it's learned about rest so it's here to stay and the Commissioner knows it and is looking for solutions that don't come any where close to "requiring" players to play if they are healthy.

Scoots
04-08-2017, 11:21 AM
so the whole "players like curry would never be good back in the day because the physicality was too intense to allow that" is dead? apparently players need rest because its more demanding in this era.
The more you know....

Or, Curry would be more dominant back in the day because his training regimen is superior to anything they had back in the day.

But seriously, I think Curry would get injured when he tried the 3rd 3 in the first quarter someone would start hard fouling him to make him stop.

Scoots
04-08-2017, 11:22 AM
isnt the whole concept of making teams/players fatigued the point? who wants it more type ****. i guess thats not good enough with this generation. its a shame that doing extraordinary things under duress isnt in more demand!

1. That's what the playoffs are for.
2. This is entertainment, not real life.
3. This is big business, not real life.

Vee-Rex
04-08-2017, 12:18 PM
Stephen Curry:

13 Games prior to resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

23ppg/6apg/5rbpg/1stpg/3topg 40%FG 28%3pt

Warriors record: 8-5

13 Games AFTER resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

27ppg/8apg/4rbpg/2stpg/3topg 50%FG 47%3pt

Warriors record: 13-0

MygirlhatesCod
04-08-2017, 12:31 PM
1. That's what the playoffs are for.
2. This is entertainment, not real life.
3. This is big business, not real life.

how is expecting someone to earn the insane amount of money they make too demanding?

Scoots
04-08-2017, 12:39 PM
Stephen Curry:

13 Games prior to resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

23ppg/6apg/5rbpg/1stpg/3topg 40%FG 28%3pt

Warriors record: 8-5

13 Games AFTER resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

27ppg/8apg/4rbpg/2stpg/3topg 50%FG 47%3pt

Warriors record: 13-0

That rest knocked his rebounding down 20%! Terrible!

MygirlhatesCod
04-08-2017, 12:41 PM
Stephen Curry:

13 Games prior to resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

23ppg/6apg/5rbpg/1stpg/3topg 40%FG 28%3pt

Warriors record: 8-5

13 Games AFTER resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

27ppg/8apg/4rbpg/2stpg/3topg 50%FG 47%3pt

Warriors record: 13-0

he also averaged 30 points on 18 back to backs last year so..........

Scoots
04-08-2017, 12:41 PM
how is expecting someone to earn the insane amount of money they make too demanding?

I didn't say anything about the money they earn, or anything about "too demanding".

As long as the TV deal is in place they have already "earned" whatever money they can get.

ewing
04-08-2017, 12:49 PM
we are moving to a video game format. stop shaking your fists at the sky, grumpy old men.

mrblisterdundee
04-08-2017, 04:34 PM
Just play the stars, and limit them to however many minutes a coach thinks they need for rest. Maybe some games, the coach and stars agree on no more than 15 or 20 minutes. They can start the game, or come off the bench in the second half.
That seems like a compromise. The players get half- or quarter-duty nights. Fans don't get totally screwed out of seeing the stars they paid good money for.

Bartlee23
04-08-2017, 07:49 PM
When I was in full day kindergarten, there were no naps, and no one seemed to miss it. Today’s kindergarten students are older than in the past too, in the 5-6 age range rather than 4-5. Most children stop napping by 4 or so. Five and particularly six year olds should not need naps if they are getting enough sleep at night. Perhaps a child who needs a nap should wait another year before starting kindergarten.

Maybe they could install this to the NBA? Or maybe they could add things like 15 minute nap time to their timeouts for each half or mandatory 15 minute nap at halftime. I'm sure most teams could spring for a bed next to the bench as well.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-08-2017, 08:01 PM
There is no issue.

Scoots
04-08-2017, 08:22 PM
When I was in full day kindergarten, there were no naps, and no one seemed to miss it. Today’s kindergarten students are older than in the past too, in the 5-6 age range rather than 4-5. Most children stop napping by 4 or so. Five and particularly six year olds should not need naps if they are getting enough sleep at night. Perhaps a child who needs a nap should wait another year before starting kindergarten.

Maybe they could install this to the NBA? Or maybe they could add things like 15 minute nap time to their timeouts for each half or mandatory 15 minute nap at halftime. I'm sure most teams could spring for a bed next to the bench as well.

I could murder a nap right now.

Scoots
04-08-2017, 08:23 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/resting-star-players-problem-nope-lakers-suns-024708734.html

BKLYNpigeon
04-08-2017, 09:21 PM
Steph rested 3 games all year including tonight. Its not that big of an issue, Just don't rest fro national games.

The NBA was invented before TV really took off. The only way you could follow teams was in the newspaper. They had 82 games because thats the only way to watch your team and other teams. Now with all the advances in TV, League pass, Internet, you don't need 82 games anymore. Teams are tanking after 40 games now.

Make the money workout somehow and play less games.

Scoots
04-08-2017, 10:03 PM
Steph rested 3 games all year including tonight.

He rested 1 game and was out injured 2 including tonight. IIRC

IndyRealist
04-08-2017, 10:13 PM
Steph rested 3 games all year including tonight. Its not that big of an issue, Just don't rest fro national games.

The NBA was invented before TV really took off. The only way you could follow teams was in the newspaper. They had 82 games because thats the only way to watch your team and other teams. Now with all the advances in TV, League pass, Internet, you don't need 82 games anymore. Teams are tanking after 40 games now.

Make the money workout somehow and play less games.

Broadcast networks are dying to cord cutters. Live sports is the one thing they still have. They're simply not going to accept the same money for less games.

Scoots
04-08-2017, 11:23 PM
Broadcast networks are dying to cord cutters. Live sports is the one thing they still have. They're simply not going to accept the same money for less games.

As we've discussed they may in fact offer less :).

The NBA is going to have to find more revenue streams. Silver has hinted at more for the DL ... giving the DL league to the TV rights holder may be worth more if there were more NBA associated players in it ... maybe expand rosters to 17 and require 3 players be assigned to the DL affiliate?

Make the NBA draft lead up more like the NFL with a televised combine and prospect games.

But really what the NBA needs to do is figure out how to get more owners invested in winning games.

likemystylez
04-09-2017, 02:04 PM
He rested 1 game and was out injured 2 including tonight. IIRC

I think whent hey know exactly when the guy is going to be back with no question what so ever- its more of a rest game than an actual injury.

Granted, its possible that a guy isnt at 100% and he has some bumps and bruises (as do likely 90% of the starters in the league on game 80 of the regular season) but thats not an injury. as jim barnett says, you can play when you are hurt, not when you are injured

Saddletramp
04-09-2017, 02:18 PM
Stephen Curry:

13 Games prior to resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

23ppg/6apg/5rbpg/1stpg/3topg 40%FG 28%3pt

Warriors record: 8-5

13 Games AFTER resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

27ppg/8apg/4rbpg/2stpg/3topg 50%FG 47%3pt

Warriors record: 13-0

Wasn't that bad stretch when Durant first went out? I'm not saying that the one missed game shouldn't get any credit, but I think learning to gel without your other best player after heavily relying on him all season might have something to do with it, too.

Also, finally getting off the road after that stretch also helped, I imagine. Didn't they have the weekend off and then a homestand? Mentally knowing no more constant traveling for a little bit shouldn't be downplayed.

Chronz
04-09-2017, 02:39 PM
The NBA has been playing an 82-game season since the 1967-68 season. With all of the advancements in training, medicine and healing techniques, diet and self preservation, air travel and even footwear since, there's no reason why this should all of a sudden be an issue.
Players want longer careers. Fans win out in the end just a few get screwed every so often

likemystylez
04-09-2017, 03:39 PM
Players want longer careers. Fans win out in the end just a few get screwed every so often

seems like guys like karl malone, robert parish, kevin willis all managed to play long careers. those guys werent sitting out games and they were going deep into the playoffs for a lot of their careers

likemystylez
04-09-2017, 03:48 PM
Stephen Curry:

13 Games prior to resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

23ppg/6apg/5rbpg/1stpg/3topg 40%FG 28%3pt

Warriors record: 8-5

13 Games AFTER resting vs. the Spurs on March 11th:

27ppg/8apg/4rbpg/2stpg/3topg 50%FG 47%3pt

Warriors record: 13-0

WOw..... youve got to be kidding me.

OK KD 58 games before sitting out to rest against the nets with the sore thumb.

25.4 ppg, 54% shooting , 8.4 rebounds per game

so far since sitting out he has had 1 27 point game, 1 game against the wizards where he played less than 2 minutes and 19 DNP's after that.

Did sitting kd that one game against the nets help? it seemed to lead to him sitting out more games afterward. It did nothing to prevent his leg injury... because injuries are not caused by players playing too many games- they are caused by being in the wrong place at the wrong time in a sport where injuries are going to happen regardless of rest.

Scoots
04-09-2017, 04:05 PM
seems like guys like karl malone, robert parish, kevin willis all managed to play long careers. those guys werent sitting out games and they were going deep into the playoffs for a lot of their careers

Not everyone is as genetically lucky as Malone and Willis, and random drug testing would have done Parish in.

likemystylez
04-09-2017, 04:29 PM
Not everyone is as genetically lucky as Malone and Willis, and random drug testing would have done Parish in.

LOL- Karl malone worked his butt off to keep in tip top shape every offseason.... but if we want to look at someone who wasnt a physical specimen or super genetically gifted guy.... his team mate john stockton did alright and he was about as average as they come.


also- I think if anything illegal drugs would be more likely to shorten a guys career than prolong it (IE reggie lewis, lewis lloyd, roy tarpley, len bias etc.)

Scoots
04-09-2017, 05:03 PM
LOL- Karl malone worked his butt off to keep in tip top shape every offseason.... but if we want to look at someone who wasnt a physical specimen or super genetically gifted guy.... his team mate john stockton did alright and he was about as average as they come.


also- I think if anything illegal drugs would be more likely to shorten a guys career than prolong it (IE reggie lewis, lewis lloyd, roy tarpley, len bias etc.)

John Stockton was also bizarrely sturdy. I didn't say that the gift was size or musculature. Some people are sturdier than others. You are picking out a tiny number of players as examples of "the way things used to be" ... Klay Thompson has missed 10 games in his career and 3 of those were for family issues. Tristan Thompson missed the first game in 448 games last week. There are iron men now too.

Parish has said multiple times that he would have missed far more games if he didn't smoke pot.

likemystylez
04-09-2017, 11:10 PM
John Stockton was also bizarrely sturdy. I didn't say that the gift was size or musculature. Some people are sturdier than others. You are picking out a tiny number of players as examples of "the way things used to be" ... Klay Thompson has missed 10 games in his career and 3 of those were for family issues. Tristan Thompson missed the first game in 448 games last week. There are iron men now too.

Parish has said multiple times that he would have missed far more games if he didn't smoke pot.

I see, so you dont think these guys ever experienced any fatigue, or might have been able to benefit from a game off here and there?

of course they did, but they fought through it and were fine just like most of these guys... and LMAO speaking of physical specimens.....Lebron really might be the most naturally gifted athlete in the history of the league .... and he still sits out every chance he gets

Scoots
04-09-2017, 11:25 PM
I see, so you dont think these guys ever experienced any fatigue, or might have been able to benefit from a game off here and there?

of course they did, but they fought through it and were fine just like most of these guys... and LMAO speaking of physical specimens.....Lebron really might be the most naturally gifted athlete in the history of the league .... and he still sits out every chance he gets

There is seldom reason to engage you in discussion. I see this is not one of those times.