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View Full Version : 2016-17 Darwin Award: Knicks,Lakers or Nets?



Hellcrooner
04-05-2017, 11:25 PM
Darwin Awards nominees*


Nets:
Dont have their pick.
Instead of you know, since they dont have the pick try to sign some Veterans that " need to show something" in a one year deal and try to at least entertain their fans who attend the game , they just make the perfect tank job to make people happy...........................in Boston.


Knicks:
Not even in the same neighbourhood of being able to contend they sign a bunch of expensive worn out players that dont fit with the system they want, dont fit with their starplayer , dont fit and takes minutes away from valuable youngsters that need minutes to develop.
Best Case escenario was 1st round exit, now they dont get the first round exit nor the higher pick.



Lakers:
Ok........your pick is top 3 protected.

You KNOW you NEED to be the worst record to more or less ensure you dont get out of the top 3

There is ALWAYS 1 team that " jumps" in the lottery, some times 2 teams.
3 never happens.

So, isntead of tanking like hell from day one and develop your Young core.......

you sing some veterans that help you win games ( on absurd contracts).

you play veterans you should have traded for a bag of doritos and allow them to win you games until deadline.

you start the season trying to win as many games as posible :confused:

and to finish the stupidest choke job ever you END THE SEASON winning games you dont have any bussinnes winning, falling to the third worst record and basically ENSURING
1 you are losing the pick
2 you are also losing 2019 pick that would have became 2 second rounders had you kept your pick.


So.

Whic team deserves de Darwin Award for this season?


*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards

KnicksorBust
04-06-2017, 11:49 AM
So a bad team wants to have the following things:

young talent
good cap space
their draft pick

Knicks:
Young Talent = B+ (Porzingis, Hernangomez)
Cap Space = F
Their Draft Pick = B

Lakers:
Young Talent = A
Cap Space = F
Their Draft Pick = D

Nets:
Young Talent = D
Cap Space = C+
Their Draft Pick = F

I like the Lakers young talent the best. The Knicks get saved by having their pick. I'm going Nets.

bleedprple&gold
04-06-2017, 03:11 PM
No matter how incompetent the Knicks and Lakers seem it has to be the Nets. The worst team in the league and no way to turn it around in the foreseeable future because of their bleek draft status. Not putting AT LEAST top 3 protection on their picks has to be the dumbest, most incompetent managerial decision in nba history.

Quinnsanity
04-06-2017, 08:16 PM
Darwin Awards nominees*


Nets:
Dont have their pick.
Instead of you know, since they dont have the pick try to sign some Veterans that " need to show something" in a one year deal and try to at least entertain their fans who attend the game , they just make the perfect tank job to make people happy...........................in Boston.


Knicks:
Not even in the same neighbourhood of being able to contend they sign a bunch of expensive worn out players that dont fit with the system they want, dont fit with their starplayer , dont fit and takes minutes away from valuable youngsters that need minutes to develop.
Best Case escenario was 1st round exit, now they dont get the first round exit nor the higher pick.



Lakers:
Ok........your pick is top 3 protected.

You KNOW you NEED to be the worst record to more or less ensure you dont get out of the top 3

There is ALWAYS 1 team that " jumps" in the lottery, some times 2 teams.
3 never happens.

So, isntead of tanking like hell from day one and develop your Young core.......

you sing some veterans that help you win games ( on absurd contracts).

you play veterans you should have traded for a bag of doritos and allow them to win you games until deadline.

you start the season trying to win as many games as posible :confused:

and to finish the stupidest choke job ever you END THE SEASON winning games you dont have any bussinnes winning, falling to the third worst record and basically ENSURING
1 you are losing the pick
2 you are also losing 2019 pick that would have became 2 second rounders had you kept your pick.


So.

Whic team deserves de Darwin Award for this season?


*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards

In fairness, Noah and Lee actually would've been really nice triangle fits when they were younger. The mistake was signing old players. Also, we have the seventh lottery slot in a loaded draft. Our draft pick is fine.


So a bad team wants to have the following things:

young talent
good cap space
their draft pick

Knicks:
Young Talent = B+ (Porzingis, Hernangomez)
Cap Space = F
Their Draft Pick = B

Lakers:
Young Talent = A
Cap Space = F
Their Draft Pick = D

Nets:
Young Talent = D
Cap Space = C+
Their Draft Pick = F

I like the Lakers young talent the best. The Knicks get saved by having their pick. I'm going Nets.

I don't think a team can have an "A" grade on young talent without a franchise player. I don't think there's any player on their roster we can comfortably say will make an All Star Game in their career. Porzingis might be a top-five player some day. I think "B" or "B+" is about right for the Knicks, but the Lakers should be lower. Not crazy about some of the other grades but that's the only one I feel the need to speak on.

KnicksorBust
04-09-2017, 04:56 PM
Darwin Awards nominees*


Nets:
Dont have their pick.
Instead of you know, since they dont have the pick try to sign some Veterans that " need to show something" in a one year deal and try to at least entertain their fans who attend the game , they just make the perfect tank job to make people happy...........................in Boston.


Knicks:
Not even in the same neighbourhood of being able to contend they sign a bunch of expensive worn out players that dont fit with the system they want, dont fit with their starplayer , dont fit and takes minutes away from valuable youngsters that need minutes to develop.
Best Case escenario was 1st round exit, now they dont get the first round exit nor the higher pick.



Lakers:
Ok........your pick is top 3 protected.

You KNOW you NEED to be the worst record to more or less ensure you dont get out of the top 3

There is ALWAYS 1 team that " jumps" in the lottery, some times 2 teams.
3 never happens.

So, isntead of tanking like hell from day one and develop your Young core.......

you sing some veterans that help you win games ( on absurd contracts).

you play veterans you should have traded for a bag of doritos and allow them to win you games until deadline.

you start the season trying to win as many games as posible :confused:

and to finish the stupidest choke job ever you END THE SEASON winning games you dont have any bussinnes winning, falling to the third worst record and basically ENSURING
1 you are losing the pick
2 you are also losing 2019 pick that would have became 2 second rounders had you kept your pick.


So.

Whic team deserves de Darwin Award for this season?


*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards

In fairness, Noah and Lee actually would've been really nice triangle fits when they were younger. The mistake was signing old players. Also, we have the seventh lottery slot in a loaded draft. Our draft pick is fine.


So a bad team wants to have the following things:

young talent
good cap space
their draft pick

Knicks:
Young Talent = B+ (Porzingis, Hernangomez)
Cap Space = F
Their Draft Pick = B

Lakers:
Young Talent = A
Cap Space = F
Their Draft Pick = D

Nets:
Young Talent = D
Cap Space = C+
Their Draft Pick = F

I like the Lakers young talent the best. The Knicks get saved by having their pick. I'm going Nets.

I don't think a team can have an "A" grade on young talent without a franchise player. I don't think there's any player on their roster we can comfortably say will make an All Star Game in their career. Porzingis might be a top-five player some day. I think "B" or "B+" is about right for the Knicks, but the Lakers should be lower. Not crazy about some of the other grades but that's the only one I feel the need to speak on.

But couldnt Russell or Ingram be that guy? If not def have potential to be a 2-3 so if they land a stud in the draft they could be set.

Another argument: If the Knicks offered Porzingis and Hernangomez for Ingram and Russell the Lakers would say no. So if the Knicks are a B+ you have to give the Lakers a higher grade.

Quinnsanity
04-09-2017, 06:08 PM
But couldnt Russell or Ingram be that guy? If not def have potential to be a 2-3 so if they land a stud in the draft they could be set.

Another argument: If the Knicks offered Porzingis and Hernangomez for Ingram and Russell the Lakers would say no. So if the Knicks are a B+ you have to give the Lakers a higher grade.

I totally disagree with that. I think the Knicks say no. If you said that before the season? I might agree with you. But Ingram has been one of the worst players in the league as a rookie and Russell really hasn't improved much in Year 2, at least not to the degree that was expected. Could either of those guys turn into an All Star? Sure, but their combined odds at this point certainly look lower than KP's. Those guys still have potential, they aren't total write offs or anything, but their value right now is much lower than it was at the beginning of the season imo.

IndyRealist
04-09-2017, 08:42 PM
If the Nets had Jeremy Lin the entire season, they would have been a lot more respectable. Still not great, but not in this conversation.


But couldnt Russell or Ingram be that guy? If not def have potential to be a 2-3 so if they land a stud in the draft they could be set.

Another argument: If the Knicks offered Porzingis and Hernangomez for Ingram and Russell the Lakers would say no. So if the Knicks are a B+ you have to give the Lakers a higher grade.

As harsh as I was on KP early in the year, I'd take KP and HG over Ingram and Russell. Not high on Russell at all. I do think, as you said, the Lakers say no to that deal, but it's not like they've made good decisions lately.

nycericanguy
04-10-2017, 09:24 AM
Knicks currently have 6th lotto slot and could of course move up... two second rounders this year and all their picks going foward. KP & Willy who both look like studs, and $25m in cap space.

Plus they should be able to get SOMETHING for Melo this summer.

in terms of a rebuild I don't see how they are in a bad spot.

Lakers are fine too but their young guys ( Russell, Randle & Ingram) have underwhelmed and you wonder if they have any all stars in that core. But if they can keep their pick this year they are fine also.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
04-10-2017, 09:59 AM
Nets have two first round picks and one second round pick. I could see them finally parting with Lopez for a couple late firsts. I was thinking Blazers trade for Lopez and part with both them late #20,#27 firsts and they send back some dead money. Just a wild guess.

Quinnsanity
04-11-2017, 08:11 PM
Nets have two first round picks and one second round pick. I could see them finally parting with Lopez for a couple late firsts. I was thinking Blazers trade for Lopez and part with both them late #20,#27 firsts and they send back some dead money. Just a wild guess.

Blazers have two guards that can't play defense and the solution is to trade for a center who can't play defense? They're out.

There's not firm evidence at this point that Brook would get one first round pick in a trade. It certainly seems like Philly can't get one for Okafor or else he'd probably be gone, and Okafor is the same player (minus the three's, which based on Brook's timeline he has eight years to develop because he's... well... eight years younger) but cheaper. Post up guys are a dying breed. Here are the top 10 players in the league by post up percentage:

Al Jefferson
LaMarcus Aldridge
Zach Randolph
Joel Embiid
Marc Gasol
Jahil Okafor
Greg Monroe
Georgios Papagiannis
Enes Kanter
Taj Gibson

How many of those guys get a first round pick in a trade right now? Aldridge, Gasol and Embiid. That's it. Even if you want to argue that Kanter would (which I absolutely don't think he does), remember, OKC specifically chose Kanter over Brook at the 2015 deadline. So I highly doubt Brook gets multiple first rounders. I'd probably guess one super low first or multiple 2nds.

At the very least for a team to trade for Brook they need to have either $23 million in cap space (or salaries to match), have to have a great defensive power forward to play with him and can't be at all invested long term in another starting center (you're simply not spending $23 million on a backup and you aren't trading a first round pick for a one-year rental of his talent level). Who even is that team? Who even is that team? The two closest teams that fit that criteria, I guess, are Boston and Golden State. Golden State isn't using their cap space on Brook Lopez when they have to resign Curry and Durant, and Boston has much grander designs for their cap space than Lopez (Gordon Hayward, Jimmy Butler, Paul George etc...). Maybe Charlotte? They've been interested in the past, Cody Zeller is a really underrated defender and Kaminsky is better suited as a backup anyway, and they could match salaries with Lamb and Plumlee. They certainly don't give up their lottery pick for him. It'd probably be a lottery-protected first at best, probably top-20 protected.

Brook has a hell of a lot more value right now than he did a year ago because of the three's, but he's at best a low-end starter on a good team and probably best used as a sixth man. There's a reason the 2013-14 team went 35-21 after he got hurt. It was infinitely easier to build a workable defense without him.

TheMightyHumph
04-11-2017, 08:25 PM
Nets have two first round picks and one second round pick. I could see them finally parting with Lopez for a couple late firsts. I was thinking Blazers trade for Lopez and part with both them late #20,#27 firsts and they send back some dead money. Just a wild guess.

Right now, I don't see Brook getting traded because..........

A) Nets would have no Center

B) Right now, he is playing like he cares, and that fits the Nets agenda.

C) I also see a brighter future for the Nets as they have upgraded their management team significantly.

Wade n Fade
04-12-2017, 12:26 AM
Can we add how James Dolan handled Charles Oakley to the Knicks' woes? What about not firing Phil Jackson by now? Didn't even trade Derrick Rose for anything of value either, especially since they could've gotten Rubio.

Twolves88
04-12-2017, 01:00 AM
Blazers have two guards that can't play defense and the solution is to trade for a center who can't play defense? They're out.

There's not firm evidence at this point that Brook would get one first round pick in a trade. It certainly seems like Philly can't get one for Okafor or else he'd probably be gone, and Okafor is the same player (minus the three's, which based on Brook's timeline he has eight years to develop because he's... well... eight years younger) but cheaper. Post up guys are a dying breed. Here are the top 10 players in the league by post up percentage:

Al Jefferson
LaMarcus Aldridge
Zach Randolph
Joel Embiid
Marc Gasol
Jahil Okafor
Greg Monroe
Georgios Papagiannis
Enes Kanter
Taj Gibson

How many of those guys get a first round pick in a trade right now? Aldridge, Gasol and Embiid. That's it. Even if you want to argue that Kanter would (which I absolutely don't think he does), remember, OKC specifically chose Kanter over Brook at the 2015 deadline. So I highly doubt Brook gets multiple first rounders. I'd probably guess one super low first or multiple 2nds.

At the very least for a team to trade for Brook they need to have either $23 million in cap space (or salaries to match), have to have a great defensive power forward to play with him and can't be at all invested long term in another starting center (you're simply not spending $23 million on a backup and you aren't trading a first round pick for a one-year rental of his talent level). Who even is that team? Who even is that team? The two closest teams that fit that criteria, I guess, are Boston and Golden State. Golden State isn't using their cap space on Brook Lopez when they have to resign Curry and Durant, and Boston has much grander designs for their cap space than Lopez (Gordon Hayward, Jimmy Butler, Paul George etc...). Maybe Charlotte? They've been interested in the past, Cody Zeller is a really underrated defender and Kaminsky is better suited as a backup anyway, and they could match salaries with Lamb and Plumlee. They certainly don't give up their lottery pick for him. It'd probably be a lottery-protected first at best, probably top-20 protected.

Brook has a hell of a lot more value right now than he did a year ago because of the three's, but he's at best a low-end starter on a good team and probably best used as a sixth man. There's a reason the 2013-14 team went 35-21 after he got hurt. It was infinitely easier to build a workable defense without him.


Brock has actually a decent perimeter based game now this year. He's not a strict post up player anymore like years past. However, I do agree with many of your points. The market for a defenseless big man who rebounds at a below average rate is not a very big market to tap into. I doubt anyone offers anything more then a late first. If they did get a mid round first the nets might have to agree to take a moderately bad contract to make the trade work.

Looking through the nba teams realistically very very few teams have any need for brook. His contract whil enot terrible isn't great either...

Twolves88
04-12-2017, 01:01 AM
I think Lopez holds more value for the nets then any other team. If they can get a defensive power forward it wouldn't be the worst big men combo in the league. Its not championship caliber but if paired correctly it could work.

Lakers + Giants
04-12-2017, 02:02 AM
before the AS game Ingram = Bust.

Post AS game Ingram = High Potential.

He's been exactly what we wanted since the AS game. His overall stats on the year are garbage, taking the whole year into account i agree he underwhelmed. If you look at it month by month tho you can see he clearly got way more comfortable as the year went on. I'd say hes been one of if not the best rookie since the AS break. I mean, that's better than being horrible throughout the whole year lmao.

He's still the 2nd youngest player in the leauge IIRC. So overall I thought he was actually impressive when u look at how he progressed throughout the year. :shrug:

ManningToTyree
04-12-2017, 02:49 AM
Clearly the Nets.