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View Full Version : Who's season was better: Curry last year or Westbrook this year?



LOb0
04-03-2017, 12:20 PM
Curry had perhaps the best regular season but sat a lot of 4ths, had far more help and they also won 73 games. Westbrook has went triple double crazy but they're a 6th seed.

Who's season was better?

Scoots
04-03-2017, 12:29 PM
Curry though I might be biased being a fan, but I know I'm biased toward playing efficiently. It's easier with Curry's teammates sure, but Curry lead the NBA in more stats than Westbrook is, just not the triple doubles.

Vee-Rex
04-03-2017, 12:43 PM
Curry

/end thread

FlashBolt
04-03-2017, 01:34 PM
i'm going curry here only because the efficiency was unreal. But it's certainly close. To be able to grab a triple double for a season when the pace isn't as high as oscar O's time is remarkable. We basically sacrificed being a better team in exchange for Russell's stats but hey, plenty of players tried and none has achieved it until this season. Important to note he's also doing this while being the NBA leading scorer.

ewing
04-03-2017, 01:39 PM
Westy

Shammyguy3
04-03-2017, 02:06 PM
Stephen Curry, and it's not close

Jamiecballer
04-03-2017, 03:24 PM
curry had one of the greatest seasons of all-time. it's not even close at all.

valade16
04-03-2017, 03:43 PM
curry had one of the greatest seasons of all-time. it's not even close at all.

Statistically isn't Westy having one of the greatest seasons of all-time?

I agree it's Curry here, but I really want to know how people are going to view what Westy is doing 10-20 years from now.

Vee-Rex
04-03-2017, 04:16 PM
Yeah, I don't mean to diminish what Westy is doing either. He's been really incredible.

But there's a thing about efficiency that is just back-breaking to opponents in a way chasing rebounds isn't. Steph's efficiency was insane (best efficiency for a star guard ever maybe... I haven't checked the numbers). And to do it with the volume... I mean, if the dude put up 5 or 6 more shots per game (like a lot of high volume players have done in the past), he's close to 40ppg last year adjusted for free throws.

The results spoke too - they weren't just empty stats. If he had a big game, the Warriors almost always blew the opponent out.

In a way, Westy's incredible season is partly due to him absorbing stats that would've simply been attributed to other teammates if they ran a conventional-style offense. He's soaking in stats (not that it isn't impressive, because it definitely is) from other people.

Steph's season last year was like his stats were compounded onto the stats the team would already have - which was far more deadly.

FlashBolt
04-03-2017, 04:41 PM
Yeah, I don't mean to diminish what Westy is doing either. He's been really incredible.

But there's a thing about efficiency that is just back-breaking to opponents in a way chasing rebounds isn't. Steph's efficiency was insane (best efficiency for a star guard ever maybe... I haven't checked the numbers). And to do it with the volume... I mean, if the dude put up 5 or 6 more shots per game (like a lot of high volume players have done in the past), he's close to 40ppg last year adjusted for free throws.

The results spoke too - they weren't just empty stats. If he had a big game, the Warriors almost always blew the opponent out.

In a way, Westy's incredible season is partly due to him absorbing stats that would've simply been attributed to other teammates if they ran a conventional-style offense. He's soaking in stats (not that it isn't impressive, because it definitely is) from other people.

Steph's season last year was like his stats were compounded onto the stats the team would already have - which was far more deadly.

It's tricky as hell because Westbrook's game doesn't necessarily depend on anyone whereas Steph kinda is. Not saying Steph can't get his own shot but when his shot is off, he's just average with his other parts of his game. Westbrook can get you everything and even though he does leave his man to grab a few rebounds, he's shown the capability to battle for offensive boards as well. It's difficult to equate efficiency with Westbrook because he's so damn reckless that it's actually his BEST trait but yeah, it's why I'd rather have Durant than Westbrook. It's much more difficult to build around Westbrook than Curry or KD IMO.

GREATNESS ONE
04-03-2017, 04:55 PM
Triple Double King, Westy about to break a record that's been held over 50+years. It's don right Amazing just not as entertaining as Curry last year,

Gotta give props to Westy though, he deserves the MVP

dhopisthename
04-03-2017, 05:12 PM
Westbrook is the reason I think counting stats can be so overrated. People see triple double double and freak out, but ignore how they are getting a triple double. look at this https://streamable.com/pio2n his teammates just get out of the way so he can get it and worse sometimes he just leaves guys wide open so he can get the rebound. Part of it is getting him the ball so he push things in transition, but people act like getting a triple double is just the end all be all for Westbrook having the greatest season ever.

Vee-Rex
04-03-2017, 05:20 PM
Westbrook is the reason I think counting stats can be so overrated. People see triple double double and freak out, but ignore how they are getting a triple double. look at this https://streamable.com/pio2n his teammates just get out of the way so he can get it and worse sometimes he just leaves guys wide open so he can get the rebound. Part of it is getting him the ball so he push things in transition, but people act like getting a triple double is just the end all be all for Westbrook having the greatest season ever.

Great post, bro. And to add to it:

Westbrook currently ranks DEAD LAST (it's not even close) on FGA's contested on his man. He's contesting somewhere like 3.4 of his man's 13.1 FGAs per game, which effectively equates to his man shooting 74% of his shots uncontested.

Westy's a freaking superhero, but he probably wouldn't be averaging a triple double this year if he was contesting shots the way he's supposed to.

Regardless... I love it. I hope he finishes with the triple double average on the year. The boy's damn good.

tredigs
04-03-2017, 05:24 PM
Most advanced stats I trust the most aside, Curry's season was just awe-dropping to watch. He made plays and took/made shots you didn't think imaginable. It was game changing. All while leading a team that was essentially the American sports version of the Beatles tour. I get that Westbrook is getting more rebounds than we're used to from a guard but this comparison is really not close.

Scoots
04-03-2017, 05:34 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_select=Stephen+Curry&player_id1=curryst01&y1=2016&y2=2017&player_id2=westbru01

Both clearly having amazing seasons. It's interesting looking at the advanced stats with Westy having the clear edge in VORP, and BPM and Curry in Win Shares and PER. If they switched teams Westy's efficiency would go up and and numbers would go down and the opposite for Curry ... but I doubt Curry's efficiency goes as low as Westys nor does his rebounding and assists go as high.

They are both incredible but in different ways.

lol, please
04-03-2017, 05:53 PM
Terrible question, lol. It's Curry and it's not close.

LOb0
04-03-2017, 06:00 PM
Steph sat out at least 14 4th quarters (Anyone have the total number?) last season which Westbrook doesn't have an opportunity to do. That has to factor in.

MygirlhatesCod
04-03-2017, 06:11 PM
it is impressive that westbrook is averaging a triple double while leading the league in scoring. but in no way does it compare to steph leading the league in scoring while posting 40,50,90.

momoneyyyy
04-03-2017, 06:15 PM
it is impressive that westbrook is averaging a triple double while leading the league in scoring. but in no way does it compare to steph leading the league in scoring while posting 40,50,90.

Curry actually shot 50-45-90 last year was insane.

tredigs
04-03-2017, 06:41 PM
Steph sat out at least 14 4th quarters (Anyone have the total number?) last season which Westbrook doesn't have an opportunity to do. That has to factor in.
In what sense? Seems like a clear positive that Curry was able to lead the Warriors to a position to sit so many 4ths. As far as total minutes goes, there's essentially no difference.

jason
04-03-2017, 07:06 PM
Steph sat out at least 14 4th quarters (Anyone have the total number?) last season which Westbrook doesn't have an opportunity to do. That has to factor in.
Wouldn't that just lead to more stats for Westbrok. Imagine how many more stats Curry could have added if he played the other 14 quarters

KingPosey
04-03-2017, 07:29 PM
i'm going curry here only because the efficiency was unreal. But it's certainly close. To be able to grab a triple double for a season when the pace isn't as high as oscar O's time is remarkable. We basically sacrificed being a better team in exchange for Russell's stats but hey, plenty of players tried and none has achieved it until this season. Important to note he's also doing this while being the NBA leading scorer.

I disagree. You guys are probably not making the playoffs if he's not doing what he's doing.

Jamiecballer
04-03-2017, 07:53 PM
Westbrook is the reason I think counting stats can be so overrated. People see triple double double and freak out, but ignore how they are getting a triple double. look at this https://streamable.com/pio2n his teammates just get out of the way so he can get it and worse sometimes he just leaves guys wide open so he can get the rebound. Part of it is getting him the ball so he push things in transition, but people act like getting a triple double is just the end all be all for Westbrook having the greatest season ever.
I'm sure he's got a number of legit triple doubles but videos like this are starting to pop up everywhere and it's cheapening the value of the accomplishment

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Firefistus
04-03-2017, 07:59 PM
Most people in here are Warriors fans I noticed, so it's going to be pro Curry, but honestly it's a matter of what you prefer I think. Both excel in what they are.

Curry is a sharp-shooting, better than anyone guard (and knows it), who takes boneheaded shots sometimes, but he has the skill to make up for it. So it works out.

Westbrook is a super-athletic angry man, who knows you can't match his physicality, and is going to make you pay for trying. He also takes boneheaded shots, but is impossible to stop on the drive.

Here's the other part of this though.

Westbrook gets more assists.
Westbrook gets more rebounds.

Curry had less turnovers (not 100% sure on this, but I watch both teams and it seems to me Westbrook coughs up the ball, which is the worse part of his game.

All in all, I would have to go with Westbrook here, it's harder to get triple doubles than hit three pointers, and Westbrook has been on the brink of doing this for years. Now that KD is gone he's able to do it and proved it to everyone.

IndyRealist
04-03-2017, 08:15 PM
Westy loses points for being force fed. Still, it's close. Westbrook's TS% is almost exactly the same this year as last year. He's worse at getting to the rim (which makes sense without Durant drawing defenders), but he's shooting the 3 at the best % of his career, and at a higher rate than ever before. Still, what Steph did was unreal. I don't think we'll ever see it again.

IndyRealist
04-03-2017, 08:18 PM
Most people in here are Warriors fans I noticed, so it's going to be pro Curry, but honestly it's a matter of what you prefer I think. Both excel in what they are.

Curry is a sharp-shooting, better than anyone guard (and knows it), who takes boneheaded shots sometimes, but he has the skill to make up for it. So it works out.

Westbrook is a super-athletic angry man, who knows you can't match his physicality, and is going to make you pay for trying. He also takes boneheaded shots, but is impossible to stop on the drive.

Here's the other part of this though.

Westbrook gets more assists.
Westbrook gets more rebounds.

Curry had less turnovers (not 100% sure on this, but I watch both teams and it seems to me Westbrook coughs up the ball, which is the worse part of his game.

All in all, I would have to go with Westbrook here, it's harder to get triple doubles than hit three pointers, and Westbrook has been on the brink of doing this for years. Now that KD is gone he's able to do it and proved it to everyone.

I'd counter that you can give someone rebounds and assists. Coaches can call the plays that way. You can't give someone a massive number of 3s at a 45% rate. Counting stats aren't a good measure of anything because they don't provide any context.

ewing
04-03-2017, 09:51 PM
I'd counter that you can give someone rebounds and assists. Coaches can call the plays that way. You can't give someone a massive number of 3s at a 45% rate. Counting stats aren't a good measure of anything because they don't provide any context.


sure you can. you surround an all time great shooter with like 9 guys who shoot 35% or better from down town, share the ball, and play a fast pace. context always matters. Curry might be the greatest shooter ever but the Warriors style and personal certainly contributed to his numbers.

BKLYNpigeon
04-03-2017, 10:34 PM
Steph Curry a First Time Unaminous MVP. enough said.

ewing
04-03-2017, 10:41 PM
I'm sure he's got a number of legit triple doubles but videos like this are starting to pop up everywhere and it's cheapening the value of the accomplishment

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

there are uncontested rebounds in every game. If Westy is going to go to the glass instead of leak for an outlet it makes sense to let him get the rebound. What's Adam going to do with it other hand it off to Westy? If he is leaving his man to chase rebounds that's a legit criticism (even though no one seems to hold it against Rodman so i guess everyone will forget)

Scoots
04-03-2017, 11:36 PM
there are uncontested rebounds in every game. If Westy is going to go to the glass instead of leak for an outlet it makes sense to let him get the rebound. What's Adam going to do with it other hand it off to Westy? If he is leaving his man to chase rebounds that's a legit criticism (even though no one seems to hold it against Rodman so i guess everyone will forget)

Rodman wasn't loudly touting his claim on an MVP trophy nor was he a guard.

Westy pads his stats yes, and that's not really the main issue, what's really alarming is that somehow he is dead last in contesting 3pt shots. How is that possible? It's the gap between being an MVP and trying to win MVP.

ewing
04-03-2017, 11:50 PM
Rodman wasn't loudly touting his claim on an MVP trophy nor was he a guard.

Westy pads his stats yes, and that's not really the main issue, what's really alarming is that somehow he is dead last in contesting 3pt shots. How is that possible? It's the gap between being an MVP and trying to win MVP.

is westy campaigning? if he is not contesting shots that an issue, if he is not contesting shots so he can chase rebounds same thing.

Bostonjorge
04-04-2017, 12:42 AM
It's Westbrook. Once he breaks the record and also averages a triple double then it's a Unanimous MVP. Most people use the triple double season of Oscar Robertson to put him in the top 10 ever. No one has ever made the top 10 with soothing yet.

I also think Westbrook is a better player this year then Curry was last year.

Jamiecballer
04-04-2017, 07:07 AM
there are uncontested rebounds in every game. If Westy is going to go to the glass instead of leak for an outlet it makes sense to let him get the rebound. What's Adam going to do with it other hand it off to Westy? If he is leaving his man to chase rebounds that's a legit criticism (even though no one seems to hold it against Rodman so i guess everyone will forget)

from a tactical basketball point of view there is nothing wrong with it at all. all i'm saying is that from a historical point of view, your first instinct as a fan is to look at the triple doubles and the season averages and your jaw drops and you think how is this possible, it's crazy ... and then you see the evidence right in front of you, it's quite obvious how it's possible. his team is instructed to do everything possible to get the ball in his hands immediately including leaving every loose basketball for him to claim. again, i think it's very very smart and I think Donovan deserves some consideration for COY. but if basketball had some version of baseball's arbitration system it would be the first thing the organization brought up when negotiating salary.

he's a great player but these numbers are being artificially inflated. and since 90% of his candidacy is based on the whole triple double thing, it should be well known just how he's getting it. if you want to award him MVP even with that knowledge that's up to you.

ewing
04-04-2017, 09:03 AM
from a tactical basketball point of view there is nothing wrong with it at all. all i'm saying is that from a historical point of view, your first instinct as a fan is to look at the triple doubles and the season averages and your jaw drops and you think how is this possible, it's crazy ... and then you see the evidence right in front of you, it's quite obvious how it's possible. his team is instructed to do everything possible to get the ball in his hands immediately including leaving every loose basketball for him to claim. again, i think it's very very smart and I think Donovan deserves some consideration for COY. but if basketball had some version of baseball's arbitration system it would be the first thing the organization brought up when negotiating salary.

he's a great player but these numbers are being artificially inflated. and since 90% of his candidacy is based on the whole triple double thing, it should be well known just how he's getting it. if you want to award him MVP even with that knowledge that's up to you.


maybe teams facing the Thunder are scared of Westy running the ball down there throat and commit to getting back instead of making more effort on the offensive glass. You want to minimize his numbers, i get it, but all players who put of historic numbers are in a position to do so. Does Curry shoot the way he did last year surrounded by a bunch guys with no range? Probably not. He'd still be a beast but not the same. Is what it is. Westy is having a historic season and deserves full credit for it

Scoots
04-04-2017, 09:12 AM
is westy campaigning? if he is not contesting shots that an issue, if he is not contesting shots so he can chase rebounds same thing.

Sorry, I mis-spoke. He's dead last in the NBA in contesting shots. He's 3rd from last in contesting 3s ... behind Gobert and Whiteside who try to never get 8 feet from the hoop. Westbrooks defense should have always been so much better than it was, but this year he's putting so much effort in on the offensive side that his defense is easily worse than the worst Harden has ever done that I've seen. I understand how it happens, but really the chasing of the triple doubles has become kind of bad, even though it's amazing that they are still winning despite the stat stuffing.

57 point triple double is hard to believe.

tredigs
04-04-2017, 11:14 AM
maybe teams facing the Thunder are scared of Westy running the ball down there throat and commit to getting back instead of making more effort on the offensive glass. You want to minimize his numbers, i get it, but all players who put of historic numbers are in a position to do so. Does Curry shoot the way he did last year surrounded by a bunch guys with no range? Probably not. He'd still be a beast but not the same. Is what it is. Westy is having a historic season and deserves full credit for it

It's the other teammates who enjoy the vast majority of the benefit, not Curry. He is probably the tightest guarded player in the NBA. The whole inclusion of the word "gravity" into the NBA lexicon these days is because of Curry's warping of defenses towards him.

ewing
04-04-2017, 11:34 AM
It's the other teammates who enjoy the vast majority of the benefit, not Curry. He is probably the tightest guarded player in the NBA. The whole inclusion of the word "gravity" into the NBA lexicon these days is because of Curry's warping of defenses towards him.


Im pretty sure if you put him with a bunch of guys who couldn't shoot, the guys guarding non shooters might just have a closer eye on Curry. i guard Terke Evans little different then Klay Thompson, you?

tredigs
04-04-2017, 11:47 AM
Im pretty sure if you put him with a bunch of guys who couldn't shoot, the guys guarding non shooter might just have a closer eye on Curry
I guess it could be even tougher, but when your contention is that the player guarded closer than everyone else is having it easier due to his situation, I feel like the point doesn't have legs. Curry's staple is his ability to hit shots that most others wouldn't try. He does this because the defense on him is so silly that if he wants to score he has to travel to the realm of shots where other players would just not bother with. For a guy like Westbrook it's "sure, take the shot".

ewing
04-04-2017, 11:57 AM
I guess it could be even tougher, but when your contention is that the player guarded closer than everyone else is having it easier due to his situation, I feel like the point doesn't have legs. Curry's staple is his ability to hit shots that most others wouldn't try. He does this because the defense on him is so silly that if he wants to score he has to travel to the realm of shots where other players would just not bother with. For a guy like Westbrook it's "sure, take the shot".

you're a homer

tredigs
04-04-2017, 12:01 PM
you're a homer
Just gotta regulate bad takes on a team where I know otherwise. When the take is, "well sure Westbrook blatantly and intentionally threw away defense in order to pad rebounding stats, but think of all the easy looks Curry gets!", it's just a silly take that isn't thought through at all. Specifically when nobody is guarded closer (again - the elusive "gravity" stats from Sports Vu proving that).

ewing
04-04-2017, 01:12 PM
Just gotta regulate bad takes on a team where I know otherwise. When the take is, "well sure Westbrook blatantly and intentionally threw away defense in order to pad rebounding stats, but think of all the easy looks Curry gets!", it's just a silly take that isn't thought through at all. Specifically when nobody is guarded closer (again - the elusive "gravity" stats from Sports Vu proving that).

you're interpretation of that stat is BS. In my opinion he is the greatest shooter ever AND you are a homer, that's it. You also drastically misstated what i said. I said if Westy throws away defensive for rebounds that is a legit criticism. If he gets uncontested rebound b/c it gets the ball to the ball handler faster or teams are busy retreating b/c they don't want to be back tracking with Russ coming at them going 200 mphs that doesn't take away from the value of his totals

valade16
04-04-2017, 01:42 PM
Curry was instructed by Walton to take more 3's when Steve Kerr was out. How is that any different than OKC teammates being instructed to let Westy get the rebounds to push the tempo if both contribute to their team winning?

Jamiecballer
04-04-2017, 02:12 PM
maybe teams facing the Thunder are scared of Westy running the ball down there throat and commit to getting back instead of making more effort on the offensive glass. You want to minimize his numbers, i get it, but all players who put of historic numbers are in a position to do so. Does Curry shoot the way he did last year surrounded by a bunch guys with no range? Probably not. He'd still be a beast but not the same. Is what it is. Westy is having a historic season and deserves full credit for it

i don't think anything you are saying here is a legitimate counter to what i said. He is being systematically gifted rebounds. This does not require us to imagine the impact of something far more dynamic like how the attributes of 5 individuals change the way that each other are covered. This is easy to see, and has a direct impact on his numbers. I don't want to minimize his numbers, i think it's foolish to ignore how some of them are being acquired.

Scoots
04-04-2017, 02:12 PM
Curry was instructed by Walton to take more 3's when Steve Kerr was out. How is that any different than OKC teammates being instructed to let Westy get the rebounds to push the tempo if both contribute to their team winning?

Curry's efficiency went up with more shots. Walton told Curry, who was taking 17 shots a game the year before, to take 15 3s a game. Curry couldn't manage more than 11. In doing that his number of shots went up by 2.5 shots per 100 possessions and his efficiency went up.

Westbrook telling his teammates to let him get rebounds when pushing the ball is not the goal but getting the stat is the goal is not at all the same thing. JJ Redick said last year that DJ is constantly getting on his teammates when they get the "cheap" rebounds and that they are "his".

Scoots
04-04-2017, 02:18 PM
Is it possible to add to conversation about "your" team without being called a "homer"?

Couldn't it be that the fans of a team have more information?

KnicksorBust
04-04-2017, 02:28 PM
I think everyone agrees with the fact that since he is among, if not the worst, in the nba at contesting shots that is egregious. That's stat padding and hurts his team. The FT rebounds are funny. The agenda is clear there but for some reason those don't bother me as much. If the ball misses and bounces off toward the middle of the paint and you know Westbrook is there why should Kanter (insert bigman here) fight him for it? Either way I think Curry's season last year is the most impressive season I have ever watched and yet Westbrook's season you can poke holes into it. He might not even be MVP. It's a fun debate but I'd rather focus on Westbrook vs. Harden vs. Kawhi and leave Curry's historic season out of it.

ewing
04-04-2017, 03:02 PM
Is it possible to add to conversation about "your" team without being called a "homer"?

Couldn't it be that the fans of a team have more information?

he is clearly a homer

Scoots
04-04-2017, 03:20 PM
he is clearly a homer

True, but it's possible for a homer to bring a rational valid point too

tredigs
04-04-2017, 04:20 PM
he is clearly a homer

Funny, I was never confused with being a homer when they struggled and I called them out for all their decisions. Or when I knew it was Curry and not Monta they had to attempt to build around (not a popular take for many). The difference is now I still know the same amount about the team, while other fans around the league offer hot takes on them constantly that never cease to lack in their ignorance. When there is a lot of good things to say about your team, and a lot of hate towards them, that fan base then is perceived as having a lot of "homers". What's closer to reality is that most of you have no damn clue what you're talking about, and we constantly have to put your theories in check. See: your take on Curry and his shooting. Just hints at how little of the team you actually watch.

valade16
04-04-2017, 04:23 PM
Curry's efficiency went up with more shots. Walton told Curry, who was taking 17 shots a game the year before, to take 15 3s a game. Curry couldn't manage more than 11. In doing that his number of shots went up by 2.5 shots per 100 possessions and his efficiency went up.

Westbrook telling his teammates to let him get rebounds when pushing the ball is not the goal but getting the stat is the goal is not at all the same thing. JJ Redick said last year that DJ is constantly getting on his teammates when they get the "cheap" rebounds and that they are "his".

And the Thunder's efficiency has gone up with Westbrook getting the rebounds and pushing the pace, no?

It's the same argument isn't it?

ewing
04-04-2017, 04:41 PM
Funny, I was never confused with being a homer when they struggled and I called them out for all their decisions. Or when I knew it was Curry and not Monta they had to attempt to build around (not a popular take for many). The difference is now I still know the same amount about the team, while other fans around the league offer hot takes on them constantly that never cease to lack in their ignorance. When there is a lot of good things to say about your team, and a lot of hate towards them, that fan base then is perceived as having a lot of "homers". What's closer to reality is that most of you have no damn clue what you're talking about, and we constantly have to put your theories in check. See: your take on Curry and his shooting. Just hints at how little of the team you actually watch.

i'm right Curry does get open looks. I am right that he benefits from having a bunch of 3 point threats in the floor with him. You are right in that he gets a lot of attention. he draw defenders and makes the D move b/c people chase him. None of these are not conflicting points. You are a homer b/c last year you said he was a better scorer then Micheal Jordan, that the GS were the greatest team in the history of basketball, and now you are saying the Curry scores the way he does with great efficiency with defenders draped on him all the time- more then anyone in the NBA. you're find something that validates these over the top claims and cling to it b/c yo love your team :shrug:

ewing
04-04-2017, 04:48 PM
Curry's efficiency went up with more shots. Walton told Curry, who was taking 17 shots a game the year before, to take 15 3s a game. Curry couldn't manage more than 11. In doing that his number of shots went up by 2.5 shots per 100 possessions and his efficiency went up.

Westbrook telling his teammates to let him get rebounds when pushing the ball is not the goal but getting the stat is the goal is not at all the same thing. JJ Redick said last year that DJ is constantly getting on his teammates when they get the "cheap" rebounds and that they are "his".


Now Westy is telling his teammates to not rebound. You sure about that? or is that kind of like when he was campaigning for MVP?

Vee-Rex
04-04-2017, 04:57 PM
And the Thunder's efficiency has gone up with Westbrook getting the rebounds and pushing the pace, no?

It's the same argument isn't it?

I don't think so.

Westbrook's rebounds come at a cost - the cost of leaving his man open for 74% of their shots to chase them down. For all we know (and it's admittedly difficult to measure), he's severely hurting his team to get triple doubles. Or maybe the Thunder have been lucky thus far and guys haven't been knocking them down like they would if they were playing the Cavs (hehe).

Whereas Curry's shot increase came at essentially no cost. More shots for the best player on last year's team and his ability to make them in an efficient manner is a big part of why they broke the regular season wins record.

So yes, while there may ALSO be some benefit to Westy getting rebounds (and being able to push the ball), that never happens if his man hits those uncontested shots.

tredigs
04-04-2017, 05:10 PM
i'm right Curry does get open looks. I am right that he benefits from having a bunch of 3 point threats in the floor with him. You are right in that he gets a lot of attention. he draw defenders and makes the D move b/c people chase him. None of these are not conflicting points. You are a homer b/c last year you said he was a better scorer then Micheal Jordan, that the GS were the greatest team in the history of basketball, and now you are saying the Curry scores the way he does with great efficiency with defenders draped on him all the time- more then anyone in the NBA. you're find something that validates these over the top claims and cling to it b/c yo love your team :shrug:

You really have nothing backing up your stance -forget stats, not even a theory - you're just talking and making assumptions. I never said either of the comments about Curry or the Warriors by the way, I just argued the case against those who found them to be absurd notions (huge difference between validating an idea of having merit and being the one beating the drum for it as a truth). His reg season scoring wise rivaled the best scoring seasons of all time (factoring in pace, efficiency, etc), and the Warriors were on pace to have one of the single best seasons in history. Too bad for them, they didn't close the deal in the playoffs. It was still a remarkable regular season both individually and as a team that will be hard to match. Damn sure wasn't by Westbrook this year, who is not even the best player in this regular season.

Scoots
04-04-2017, 05:46 PM
And the Thunder's efficiency has gone up with Westbrook getting the rebounds and pushing the pace, no?

It's the same argument isn't it?

It's not really the same ... Curry went from shooting 3s on 48% of his shots to 54% and that accounted for most of that change. His usage went up 2 points too but that was not just about his 3 point shooting, and he did that while being at or close to his career bests in shooting percentages. Westbrook's usage has gone up over 10 points, his shooting has dropped by 30 points while he's taking 8 more shots per game and he's turning the ball over at a near record pace ... clearly the increase in Westbrook having the ball hasn't increased his efficiency.

No question Westbrook is a bad-*** mutha ... but he's doing too much. What I find most alarming is that the Thunder's backup PG and SG situation is so apparently ignored by the front office.

valade16
04-04-2017, 06:13 PM
I don't think so.

Westbrook's rebounds come at a cost - the cost of leaving his man open for 74% of their shots to chase them down. For all we know (and it's admittedly difficult to measure), he's severely hurting his team to get triple doubles. Or maybe the Thunder have been lucky thus far and guys haven't been knocking them down like they would if they were playing the Cavs (hehe).

Whereas Curry's shot increase came at essentially no cost. More shots for the best player on last year's team and his ability to make them in an efficient manner is a big part of why they broke the regular season wins record.

So yes, while there may ALSO be some benefit to Westy getting rebounds (and being able to push the ball), that never happens if his man hits those uncontested shots.


It's not really the same ... Curry went from shooting 3s on 48% of his shots to 54% and that accounted for most of that change. His usage went up 2 points too but that was not just about his 3 point shooting, and he did that while being at or close to his career bests in shooting percentages. Westbrook's usage has gone up over 10 points, his shooting has dropped by 30 points while he's taking 8 more shots per game and he's turning the ball over at a near record pace ... clearly the increase in Westbrook having the ball hasn't increased his efficiency.

No question Westbrook is a bad-*** mutha ... but he's doing too much. What I find most alarming is that the Thunder's backup PG and SG situation is so apparently ignored by the front office.

Good points. You're both right, it's not the same.