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JasonJohnHorn
03-31-2017, 08:10 AM
Kobe recently took a diplomatic approach to resting players. He says no coach ever approached him about that, because he wouldn't do that, but says LBJ has a right to do it because he's earned it.

I would argue that Kobe is an example of why players should rest.


Kobe's conditioning was amazing, and had his body not given out on him, he likely would have been able to play at an all-star level up until 40.


However, Kobe was slowed by injuries. He had five seasons where he averaged over 40 minutes a game. an additional six where he averaged over 38, and 3 more where he averaged over 36.

And what happened? Knee injuries. All that extra mileage wore him down. He has 7 seasons where he played fewer than 70 games, and for all intents and purposes, he was done as a player at 35, though he rode out his contract.


You look at Duncan on the other had, who granted, has a less knee-intensive game, he never had a season over 36 minutes a game past 27, and only had one 40 mpg season. He lasted until the age of 39 and was still making major contributions to a title contender.

Jordan posted heavy minutes and lasted until 40, but he also took several YEARS off in between.


It seems like PJax was willing to ride his horse into the ground and Kobe's pride let him do it, but at the end of the day, Pop's approach seems to be the one that is best for the players health, and overall performance.

Thoughts?

da ThRONe
03-31-2017, 08:55 AM
This rest situation is being over blown over a few games. In this era of incredible athletes pushing their bodies to the limit all year long rest has become necessary.

Scoots
03-31-2017, 10:33 AM
I don't think it's possible to convince the "rest is for *******" posse that there are merits to reducing the load on players.

ewing
03-31-2017, 10:49 AM
I don't think it's possible to convince the "rest is for *******" posse that there are merits to reducing the load on players.


you are right and its a players decision to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. I get up at 5 for 70,000 a year. I'd probably be healthier if i didn't. so while rest isn't for ******* crying about it, and saying you deserve it when you get 20 mil is a ***** move.

IndyRealist
03-31-2017, 11:44 AM
For teams making these decisions, it's about maximizing their investment more than it is about the player's long term health. Even for the Spurs, it was about keeping Duncan primed for the postseason. Getting a couple extra years out of him was just bonus, because most players don't play as well as he did in the twilight of their careers.

They are not resting Lebron so he can play at 40. They are resting Lebron so he can go 100% in the playoffs.

Yanks All Day
03-31-2017, 02:31 PM
What's amazing is that we're 74 games into the season and LeBron has played in 68 of them, since people make it seem like he rests 33% of the games. So people are freaking out over 6 missed games. Six. Here's the games he's missed:

November 16th: at Pacers. Wednesday night game. 2nd night of back-to-back.

December 14th: at Memphis. Wednesday night game. 2nd night of back-to-back. Played Memphis THE NIGHT BEFORE.

December 26th: at Detroit. Monday night game. 2nd night of back-to-back. Played Golden State the day before.

February 25th: vs Chicago. Saturday night game. Strep throat. Not a rest day.

March 4th: at Miami. Saturday night game. 2nd night of road back-to-back.

March 18th: at LAC. Saturday night game. 1st night of road back-to-back.


That's 5 rest games and 1 strep throat scratch. Anyone see a theme here on rest days? This is the players' way of pushing towards a schedule without back-to-backs. The only game you can even make an argument for is the Clippers national TV game and choosing to play the Lakers instead. That one I'd entertain. Otherwise, I never had a problem with players resting before, and I still don't now. It's about being 100% for the playoffs and winning a championship. Not about a Monday night regular season game in Detroit.

nastynice
03-31-2017, 02:39 PM
I don't blame teams for doing it, playoffs are what matters and no one wants to beat themselves up over reg season to go into the playoffs a little worn down.

At the same time, if I bought tickets to a game, and a healthy player is being rested, then yea, I'm a need my ****in money back. For sure.

PowerHouse
03-31-2017, 04:31 PM
Kobe recently took a diplomatic approach to resting players. He says no coach ever approached him about that, because he wouldn't do that, but says LBJ has a right to do it because he's earned it.

I would argue that Kobe is an example of why players should rest.


Kobe's conditioning was amazing, and had his body not given out on him, he likely would have been able to play at an all-star level up until 40.


However, Kobe was slowed by injuries. He had five seasons where he averaged over 40 minutes a game. an additional six where he averaged over 38, and 3 more where he averaged over 36.

And what happened? Knee injuries. All that extra mileage wore him down. He has 7 seasons where he played fewer than 70 games, and for all intents and purposes, he was done as a player at 35, though he rode out his contract.



The injury that devastated his career was the achilles tendon rupturing into two pieces. No player has come back to be what they once were after that type of injury. He didnt have any issues with knees in his career, until after he tried to come back prematurely from the achilles and got a small fracture in the knee from overcompensating and being conscience of the achilles.

Could Kobe have played until 40 without the achilles injury? Maybe but not everybody wants to play that long. 20 years was already enough.

Bruno
03-31-2017, 05:08 PM
Phil had Kobe down to 33.8 mpg the year after the last title. That was down from the 38.8 mpg he played in 2010 when he caused major damage. The year after the 33.8 season, Brown had him back up to 38+ and that trend continued under Dantoni. Maybe because of his conditioning and had Phil stayed starting the minute reduction at 32 could have made a difference but once he went back up to lead leading minutes at 33 it was just a matter of time. Maybe LeBrons a cyborg but this should probably be his last season in the 37 mpg range, time to get him down to 32-33.

KnicksorBust
03-31-2017, 05:10 PM
Kobe recently took a diplomatic approach to resting players. He says no coach ever approached him about that, because he wouldn't do that, but says LBJ has a right to do it because he's earned it.

I would argue that Kobe is an example of why players should rest.


Kobe's conditioning was amazing, and had his body not given out on him, he likely would have been able to play at an all-star level up until 40.


However, Kobe was slowed by injuries. He had five seasons where he averaged over 40 minutes a game. an additional six where he averaged over 38, and 3 more where he averaged over 36.

And what happened? Knee injuries. All that extra mileage wore him down. He has 7 seasons where he played fewer than 70 games, and for all intents and purposes, he was done as a player at 35, though he rode out his contract.


You look at Duncan on the other had, who granted, has a less knee-intensive game, he never had a season over 36 minutes a game past 27, and only had one 40 mpg season. He lasted until the age of 39 and was still making major contributions to a title contender.

Jordan posted heavy minutes and lasted until 40, but he also took several YEARS off in between.


It seems like PJax was willing to ride his horse into the ground and Kobe's pride let him do it, but at the end of the day, Pop's approach seems to be the one that is best for the players health, and overall performance.

Thoughts?

I think resting players is a good strategy and helps extend players careers. People can complain because they pay money to see stars and it is unfortunate when those stars dont play but the league should NEVER punish teams.

da ThRONe
03-31-2017, 07:28 PM
I think resting players is a good strategy and helps extend players careers. People can complain because they pay money to see stars and it is unfortunate when those stars dont play but the league should NEVER punish teams.

What I don't get is we know resting helps prevent injuries so if guys don't rest some games injuries would be higher. Now instead of fans being deprived of said player for a game now the league is without that player for weeks. Really what's the difference between a DNP for rest and a DNP for soreness?

KnicksorBust
03-31-2017, 09:52 PM
I think resting players is a good strategy and helps extend players careers. People can complain because they pay money to see stars and it is unfortunate when those stars dont play but the league should NEVER punish teams.

What I don't get is we know resting helps prevent injuries so if guys don't rest some games injuries would be higher. Now instead of fans being deprived of said player for a game now the league is without that player for weeks. Really what's the difference between a DNP for rest and a DNP for soreness?

Well guys like MJ and Karl Malone made it seem like elite athletes dont need rest.

More-Than-Most
03-31-2017, 10:06 PM
Kobe sitting? Never... He would die first. It sucks because if he had he maybe ages better and we are still watching a good level kobe right now.

JasonJohnHorn
03-31-2017, 11:26 PM
I don't think it's possible to convince the "rest is for *******" posse that there are merits to reducing the load on players.

I get the fans complaining about this, but the players? I mean... shouldn't they be saying: hey, the league shouldn't shedule to many back-to-backs.

I figured the players should be on board for this.

JasonJohnHorn
03-31-2017, 11:28 PM
Well guys like MJ and Karl Malone made it seem like elite athletes dont need rest.

MJ got LOTS of rest those ENTIRE seasons he took off.

I mean... had he not rest... do you think he'd play at that level at 40?


Post players are a little different. Guys like Moses and Karl Malone. Parish. Kareem. They are making sharp cuts and explosive drives and jumping in for high-flying dunks. Those are the things that really kill your knees and ankles.

JasonJohnHorn
03-31-2017, 11:38 PM
The injury that devastated his career was the achilles tendon rupturing into two pieces. No player has come back to be what they once were after that type of injury. He didnt have any issues with knees in his career, until after he tried to come back prematurely from the achilles and got a small fracture in the knee from overcompensating and being conscience of the achilles.

Could Kobe have played until 40 without the achilles injury? Maybe but not everybody wants to play that long. 20 years was already enough.

Oh... sorry.. I was talking about the Kobe Bryant who played for the Lakers.


http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/03/all-22-of-kobe-bryants-career-injuries-in-one-painful-infographic

The Achilles was 12/13, and it was the straw that broke the camel's back, but Kobe had been having knee issues for years.

He had a knee injury in 06/07, like 5 years before that, and had swelling and sore knees before as well. It was only the fractured knee he got after the ankle problem.

Kobe was famous for going to Germany to get special knee treatments in the offseason. He praised that for extending his career.

http://grantland.com/features/kobe-bryant-dr-chris-renna-regenokine-knee-treatment/

Knees were a major problem for Kobe.

Scoots
04-01-2017, 12:22 AM
Rest days are here to stay. Eventually all the whiners will shut up about it.

More-Than-Most
04-01-2017, 12:47 AM
also this is just who kobe is.. I have said it all along... I am in no way a kobe fan but his work ethic was god like... There is nobody who loved this sport more than him or wanted to be the GOAT as much as him... Someone like Lebron and Jordan who will likely be 1 and 2 when all is said and done had insane wills and amazing work ethics but you would never see kobe trying another sport or ****ing around with movies... It just wouldnt happen... He bled basketball and its why he demanded others to be like him and I cant blame him... If I worked my *** off all year and saw a shaq show up out of shape id be ****ing pissed as well and so on down the list.

PowerHouse
04-01-2017, 11:31 AM
He had a knee injury in 06/07, like 5 years before that, and had swelling and sore knees before as well. It was only the fractured knee he got after the ankle problem.

Kobe was famous for going to Germany to get special knee treatments in the offseason. He praised that for extending his career.

http://grantland.com/features/kobe-bryant-dr-chris-renna-regenokine-knee-treatment/

Knees were a major problem for Kobe.

I know man, that brutal knee injury in '07 that caused him to look like a shell as he played non stop from Sep-June for the next 3 years winning an MVP, 2 FMVPs and 2 rings along the way. Devastating.

It wasn't reconstructive surgery he went to Germany for, it was just treatment. Pulling out some blood and then putting it back in, very non-invasive. Again, the serious knee issues came late in his career, after he already put in 17+ years in the NBA going deep into the post season just about every year.

If you want to talk about players with actual knee issues then make a thread about D-Rose or Brandon Roy.

ewing
04-01-2017, 05:35 PM
^^^boom


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mrblisterdundee
04-01-2017, 10:47 PM
The diplomatic approach is to play the players, and limit their minutes if they need rest. Start the stars, and play them for 20 minutes a game or even less some nights.

Scoots
04-01-2017, 11:44 PM
The diplomatic approach is to play the players, and limit their minutes if they need rest. Start the stars, and play them for 20 minutes a game or even less some nights.

What I don't understand is when the players are being "rested" but are at the game at all. If you want a player to get rest send them home.

ewing
04-02-2017, 11:18 AM
What I don't understand is when the players are being "rested" but are at the game at all. If you want a player to get rest send them home.

They should put them in the room of spirit and time


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effen5
04-03-2017, 11:26 PM
Kobe recently took a diplomatic approach to resting players. He says no coach ever approached him about that, because he wouldn't do that, but says LBJ has a right to do it because he's earned it.

I would argue that Kobe is an example of why players should rest.


Kobe's conditioning was amazing, and had his body not given out on him, he likely would have been able to play at an all-star level up until 40.


However, Kobe was slowed by injuries. He had five seasons where he averaged over 40 minutes a game. an additional six where he averaged over 38, and 3 more where he averaged over 36.

And what happened? Knee injuries. All that extra mileage wore him down. He has 7 seasons where he played fewer than 70 games, and for all intents and purposes, he was done as a player at 35, though he rode out his contract.


You look at Duncan on the other had, who granted, has a less knee-intensive game, he never had a season over 36 minutes a game past 27, and only had one 40 mpg season. He lasted until the age of 39 and was still making major contributions to a title contender.

Jordan posted heavy minutes and lasted until 40, but he also took several YEARS off in between.


It seems like PJax was willing to ride his horse into the ground and Kobe's pride let him do it, but at the end of the day, Pop's approach seems to be the one that is best for the players health, and overall performance.

Thoughts?

TD also played 38.6 minutes or MORE in his first 6 seasons in the league. Resting players is completely overblown and overrated imo.

FlashBolt
04-04-2017, 08:07 PM
Players are NEVER going to play 20 minutes if they are stars. Ruins their PPG averages and plenty of people judge a player's ability to play just by stats (hence why they are enamored by triple doubles). Resting is 100% understandable if the league can't come up with a correct schedule. Though they are physically more advanced than players before, that also means the competition is more advanced as well. And not to mention that with all the chasing and pick-and-roll there is today, being a perimeter defender is much more difficult. I respect Kobe for not wanting to sit but one has to wonder because IMO, he'd still be a 20 PPG on 46% shooting -- which would be good enough for the Lakers to make some serious moves if needed.