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View Full Version : Does strength matter?



ewing
03-25-2017, 09:05 AM
In a league where you can play KD at the 4 and Kristaps at the 5 does strength matter? I think power helps some players still but it doesn't really seem to matter anymore. What do you think?

R. Johnson#3
03-25-2017, 10:08 AM
Just because undersized guys are playing bigger positions doesn't mean that strength doesn't matter. Look at guys like Rodman. He could hang with anyone.

The league is definitely more speed oriented but then you have teams like Memphis. They grind opponents down with a slow but physical game. Then you have a team like the Warriors where the ball barely touches the ground on some possessions. Every team is different but strength will always play a pivotal role on an NBA team.

Vee-Rex
03-25-2017, 10:43 AM
I'd say it definitely does depending on the player. I wonder how much more beastly KD would be if he was ripped. I think his length and size helps him so that it's not necessary to get ripped. If he were 6'2 then guys would be collapsing and contesting every drive and there would be a lot more contact, I think.

I do know Kyrie's transformation has helped him withstand more contact. He has less upper body injuries nowadays compared to his rookie and sophomore years. Putting on some more muscles has helped in that aspect and if you compare pictures of him now vs. back then you can clearly see the difference.

ewing
03-25-2017, 10:49 AM
i think does it matter is the wrong way to phrase my question. it can clearly help some players but is it necessary and could a player like KD have played pf in a more physical era?

KingPosey
03-25-2017, 11:15 AM
What? This is ridiculous, of course strength is a valuable asset. It's a dumb question.

TrueFan420
03-25-2017, 12:12 PM
I'd say it definitely does depending on the player. I wonder how much more beastly KD would be if he was ripped. I think his length and size helps him so that it's not necessary to get ripped. If he were 6'2 then guys would be collapsing and contesting every drive and there would be a lot more contact, I think.

I do know Kyrie's transformation has helped him withstand more contact. He has less upper body injuries nowadays compared to his rookie and sophomore years. Putting on some more muscles has helped in that aspect and if you compare pictures of him now vs. back then you can clearly see the difference.

KD wouldn't want to put on too much bulk because he'd lose some of his mobility and his mobility combined with his 7' frame and skillset make him special.

TrueFan420
03-25-2017, 12:15 PM
i think does it matter is the wrong way to phrase my question. it can clearly help some players but is it necessary and could a player like KD have played pf in a more physical era?

In a small ball line up sure. But in a different era he'd have been made to bulked up. And remember he doesn't play PF he plays SF and only slides down to PF for stretches of the game. If he was a full time PF he'd probably add some weight. But it would take away from what makes him special.

ewing
03-25-2017, 01:26 PM
In a small ball line up sure. But in a different era he'd have been made to bulked up. And remember he doesn't play PF he plays SF and only slides down to PF for stretches of the game. If he was a full time PF he'd probably add some weight. But it would take away from what makes him special.


Yeah i was thinking about prospects and weather you should care if a guy is built like KP or Irgram at this point. Physical strength just doesn't seem to be a pre-req to playing on the NBA anymore- even if you do play what traditionally was a "power position".

Raps18-19 Champ
03-25-2017, 02:43 PM
Of course as long as it doesn't compromise your speed.

tredigs
03-25-2017, 03:11 PM
KD can't play 4 all game for games on end or anything. And Draymond got a lot stronger over the past couple years to handle the grind down low.

tredigs
03-25-2017, 03:13 PM
Short answer yes.

ewing
03-25-2017, 03:29 PM
KD can't play 4 all game for games on end or anything. And Draymond got a lot stronger over the past couple years to handle the grind down low.

Draymond ain't weak, he is small for his spot but I don't think he is weak. I'd bet KD can't bench 185 or do a pull-up. Same for KP and he's my boy


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Heediot
03-25-2017, 04:19 PM
Yeah i was thinking about prospects and weather you should care if a guy is built like KP or Irgram at this point. Physical strength just doesn't seem to be a pre-req to playing on the NBA anymore- even if you do play what traditionally was a "power position".

It's true KD, Steph, and AD are skinny as ****.

Scoots
03-25-2017, 04:42 PM
I think functional strength and leverage are critically important on defense, but the value of power on offense is way way down.

Vee-Rex
03-25-2017, 05:06 PM
Channing Frye is 6'11 and he's as soft as toilet paper. He has no strength whatsoever and it allows guys to bully him when it comes to rebounding. When a guy can throw you off balance just by leaning on you you can't get proper footing to leap high enough to come down with the ball. For Channing though, it's a lack of strength as well as a lack of toughness, two separate things.

If you look at Z-Bo, he's a big powerful freaking dude. He has no hops and never has, but he was able to have a strong career in rebounding due to a number of factors, including his strength.

tredigs
03-25-2017, 08:57 PM
Draymond ain't weak, he is small for his spot but I don't think he is weak. I'd bet KD can't bench 185 or do a pull-up. Same for KP and he's my boy


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Dude's with long *** lanky arms struggle with bench obviously, but that's not a great indicator of strength when it comes to ball. In fact it's no indicator. Nate Robinson could out-bench Rudy Gobert with ease.

TrueFan420
03-25-2017, 08:59 PM
Channing Frye is 6'11 and he's as soft as toilet paper. He has no strength whatsoever and it allows guys to bully him when it comes to rebounding. When a guy can throw you off balance just by leaning on you you can't get proper footing to leap high enough to come down with the ball. For Channing though, it's a lack of strength as well as a lack of toughness, two separate things.

If you look at Z-Bo, he's a big powerful freaking dude. He has no hops and never has, but he was able to have a strong career in rebounding due to a number of factors, including his strength.

Zbo is like 6'9 on a good day. He just knows how to leverage his height and weight to his advantage. When you're shorter you get underneath a taller player and even if they're bigger it's harder to move you. If you're lighter you have to hit them first to put them off their balance to gain an advantage. Knowing your weakness and how to mitigate it is more important than knowing your strength and how to expoit it.

ewing
03-25-2017, 09:06 PM
Dude's with long *** lanky arms struggle with bench obviously, but that's not a great indicator of strength when it comes to ball. In fact it's no indicator. Nate Robinson could out-bench Rudy Gobert with ease.

His bench would be long but he's built like a 12 year old girl. I doubt he strong by any measure. Nates arms are short but he's strong

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tredigs
03-25-2017, 09:43 PM
His bench would be long but he's built like a 12 year old girl. I doubt he strong by any measure. Nates arms are short but he's strong

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Eh I bet he's a lot stronger than you realize.

JAZZNC
03-25-2017, 09:47 PM
Rudy is not built like a 12yr old girl, dunno what dude you've been watching but you certainly aren't looking at the same guy I am.

ewing
03-25-2017, 09:58 PM
Rudy is not built like a 12yr old girl, dunno what dude you've been watching but you certainly aren't looking at the same guy I am.

The post was about KD. I didn't mean to make the thread about one or two guys. As we transition for power to stretch 4 it seem like "power" is no longer a trait needed in this league


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JAZZNC
03-25-2017, 10:18 PM
The post was about KD. I didn't mean to make the thread about one or two guys. As we transition for power to stretch 4 it seem like "power" is no longer a trait needed in this league


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That makes more sense! I feel like power is still needed, Harden is/looks strong as hell and Kawhi isn't a little dude. Even Hayward has gotten built since he has been in the league. Strength helps and is an asset, just when you have the physical tools of KD or shooting ability of Curry it makes it less important.

ewing
03-25-2017, 10:37 PM
That makes more sense! I feel like power is still needed, Harden is/looks strong as hell and Kawhi isn't a little dude. Even goes on Hayward has gotten built since he has been in the league. Strength helps and is an asset, just when you have the physical tools or OF or shooting ability of Curry it makes it less important.

Leonard is the prefect traditional basketball athlete


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JAZZNC
03-25-2017, 10:49 PM
Good Lord, autocorrect got me bad on that last post! Went back and got it straight haha!

Scoots
03-26-2017, 09:10 AM
Leonard is the prefect traditional basketball athlete

I think he illustrates my point that power is needed more on D than on O, and that is a change from the past where power was a major part of offense. In the past offense on the inside was mostly about power and on the wing often involved going through people to get to the rim and powering through contact to shoot.

DanG
03-26-2017, 02:55 PM
Absolutely it matters.

I would take a player with elite strength, average speed over a player with elite speed, average strength 10/10 times.

players with great strength often have an easier time rebounding, defending and scoring in the post. This is why LeBron is so dominant, he's just stronger than everyone else. He can have an off-night shooting, but still impact the game in so many other ways because of his strength.

Ben Simmons went #1 while not having a jumpshot and even if he doesn't develop one he's going to give 99% of the small forwards problems in the NBA because of his size and strength.

Scoots
03-26-2017, 08:00 PM
Absolutely it matters.

I would take a player with elite strength, average speed over a player with elite speed, average strength 10/10 times.

players with great strength often have an easier time rebounding, defending and scoring in the post. This is why LeBron is so dominant, he's just stronger than everyone else. He can have an off-night shooting, but still impact the game in so many other ways because of his strength.

Ben Simmons went #1 while not having a jumpshot and even if he doesn't develop one he's going to give 99% of the small forwards problems in the NBA because of his size and strength.

Size is a whole different thing. If Simmons was the same strength and skill but 6'1" he would probably drop to the 20s in the draft if not further.

I think the speed vs strength thing is also an interesting thing ... if Shaq wasn't as strong it would clearly have changed his game, but if a 7'1" guy was had elite speed he would dominate on a fast breaking team. Elite speed closing out on shooters.

I guess the reality is that any elite attribute has significant value.

JasonJohnHorn
03-27-2017, 06:51 PM
Of course. Just ask LeBron.