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View Full Version : Which All-Timers would CLASH with Pop's Coaching Style?



KnicksorBust
03-23-2017, 11:33 AM
In the other thread Duncan's leadership was brought up and I think a big part of that is how he handles being coached. KDSpursman described how he is coached like the 15th man on the team and still doesn't create any drama. It got me thinking...

We all know Pop is an incredible coach. One of the best of all-time. And he has a truly historic legacy of maintaining success. In fairness though, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Kawhi Leonard, etc. are mild mannered selfless stars. I don't believe they are the type to create friction with any coach. I'm sure their high school age coaches would say the same thing. So I have a list of all-time greats and I want to know which players you believe would CLASH with pop's aggressive coaching style because they are used to being the favorite or playing for a player's coach.

For example, I think Shaq would clash with Pop. I could see Pop dogging him for coming in to camp out of shape, not giving his best effort out on the floor, etc and it escalating.

KnicksorBust
03-23-2017, 11:39 AM
Screwed up. Supposed to be a poll... If a mod could add a poll with multiple selections that would be great... if not just write yes or no for the following:

MJ
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Shaq
Kobe
Barkley
Iverson

Shammyguy3
03-23-2017, 11:41 AM
Chuck?

KnicksorBust
03-23-2017, 11:46 AM
Chuck?

Shammy, any chance you could add a poll? I want people to be able to select multiple guys and I want to see the results.

Heediot
03-23-2017, 11:57 AM
If he is as good as I think he is, I think he gets everyone to buy in. Its easier to blast your stars when you 60 wins and are challenging for the trophy on an annual basis.

If he isn't winning. Iverson and Kobe for sure would be a problem. All those other guys mentioned seem reasonable enough to at least make it work. LeBron might have his diva passive aggressive moments like with Spo and Blatt. He may want to take control, so that may clash. I don't see Kareem as a problem. MJ seems too focused on winning to create problems with coaches.

Shammyguy3
03-23-2017, 11:59 AM
done

Hawkeye15
03-23-2017, 12:52 PM
of those listed? Iverson by a mile. Pops would have hated him.

I think Kobe would have pissed him off as well. If Kobe couldn't handle the zen master at times (his games where he wouldn't even shoot, just to spite Phil), he would never have been able to handle Pops.

Fact is, most superstars are drama queens. Coaches like Pops don't like those types. It's why many great college coaches won't coach in the NBA.

I also think timing matters. If you have LeBron, or MJ, land with Pops after year 6-7, probably won't work. If they start with Pops, I am sure they are fine.

Heediot
03-23-2017, 12:57 PM
of those listed? Iverson by a mile. Pops would have hated him.

On the flip-side, with the amount of heart and toughness AI plays with, he might score some points with pops. Not too sure how Pops would feel about him pounding the rock away going 1 on 3, or how serious he takes practices?

Heediot
03-23-2017, 01:03 PM
of those listed? Iverson by a mile. Pops would have hated him.

I think Kobe would have pissed him off as well. If Kobe couldn't handle the zen master at times (his games where he wouldn't even shoot, just to spite Phil), he would never have been able to handle Pops.

Fact is, most superstars are drama queens. Coaches like Pops don't like those types. It's why many great college coaches won't coach in the NBA.

I also think timing matters. If you have LeBron, or MJ, land with Pops after year 6-7, probably won't work. If they start with Pops, I am sure they are fine.

Timing is key, but I think if any star were to play with Pops now or any player for that matter rookie, prime player, or aging vet he has too much clout and credentials not to be respected and for players not to buy in. You have to be an extreme outlier not to respect pops.

LOb0
03-23-2017, 01:04 PM
Iverson. Ball hog, poor shot selection, refused to ever come off the bench even when returning from injury, practice, likely would have complained about resting, hated being criticized.

Hawkeye15
03-23-2017, 01:10 PM
Timing is key, but I think if any star were to play with Pops now or any player for that matter rookie, prime player, or aging vet he has too much clout and credentials not to be respected and for players not to buy in. You have to be an extreme outlier not to respect pops.

Sure, but that goes back into timing. If LeBron were to go to the Spurs next year, you are probably right. If LeBron were to go to the Spurs before Pops is Pops, meh.

KnicksorBust
03-23-2017, 02:16 PM
I wanted people to be able to select multiple players. Now it's just going to be a bash Iverson fest.

kdspurman
03-23-2017, 02:56 PM
I wanted people to be able to select multiple players. Now it's just going to be a bash Iverson fest.

If people give multiple answers in the thread, we can go in and modify the # of votes per player.

Shammyguy3
03-23-2017, 03:01 PM
I wanted people to be able to select multiple players. Now it's just going to be a bash Iverson fest.

oopsies

Shammyguy3
03-23-2017, 03:02 PM
.

Shammyguy3
03-23-2017, 03:04 PM
just made a new thread with new poll, and merged them. We can now select multiple guys on the list

PowerHouse
03-23-2017, 03:30 PM
Easy. Every single name on that list would clash except for Kareem prolly.

Hawkeye15
03-23-2017, 03:54 PM
Easy. Every single name on that list would clash except for Kareem prolly.

Kareem would have just requested a trade to the coast, because of his cultural needs. So he wouldn't have had to deal with Pops regardless

Chronz
03-23-2017, 04:19 PM
Melo

Hawkeye15
03-23-2017, 05:05 PM
Melo

it says, "All timers"..

More-Than-Most
03-23-2017, 05:56 PM
bah i didnt see chuck on the list at first so i didnt add him lol

ewing
03-23-2017, 05:57 PM
I don't think the great Boogie Cousins would have meshed well with Pop

Scoots
03-23-2017, 06:22 PM
I think all great players would like to play for Pop, but a lot of the great players would argue their point regardless of their coach and want it their way regardless ... Pop would have to convince them, something he hasn't had to do in a long time. Some would clash because they play substandard D.

Hellcrooner
03-23-2017, 08:58 PM
the ones that played for the name on the back of the jersey.

Jordan, Kobe, Iverson.........

Raps18-19 Champ
03-23-2017, 09:03 PM
Screwed up. Supposed to be a poll... If a mod could add a poll with multiple selections that would be great... if not just write yes or no for the following:

MJ
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Shaq
Kobe
Barkley
Iverson

And Wilt.

JasonJohnHorn
03-23-2017, 09:19 PM
There are certain players who were their team's coaches. Jordan is the first that comes to mind. Jordan would not want a guy capping his minutes. Or deciding plays for him. P-Jax had a system that let Jordan dominate the ball and worked: the triangle. He was lucky in LAL that he had Kobe who was similar, and Shaq who he could just dump the ball into 25-30 times a game who could also pass.

In New York, there is nobody like that. The system works with guys like Jordan, Kobe, McGrady, likely Harden. But not with a guy like Melo.

With Pop's 'sharing' system, the ball would have come out of Jordan's hands. Jordan was a willing passer, but he wanted to be the one passing and making the calls, and when he wasn't, he wanted a talented beta who knew who to pass it to. Pop's system wouldn't have worked well with Jordan. Or Kobe. And most obviously not Iverson.

I don't think it would have worked terribly well with Zeke either... and there are a few others who wouldn't have excelled, but it would have worked well enough.

Magic is an interesting instance. I get the feeling like he wouldn't have wanted to be coached. He wanted to coach the players himself. He essentially ran three coaches out of town: McKinney, Westhead and Riley. Two of them championship coaches. Riley he tolerated, because Riley let them run the style he wanted, but after their re-peat, many in LAL (and I'm basing this on interviews I read and Jerry West's book) felt like Riley was taking more credit than he deserved and became a personality in his own right. Nothing overt mind you, but the sense I get was that Riley knew he wasn't welcome in LAL and decided to leave on his own terms and save face. McKinney and Westhead were more overt.

Bottom line: Magic wanted to be the guy calling the shots and getting the credit. That said, he was a generous player and great leader. Pop's low-key approach, and humility would have made him a good fit with Magic, because he would happily let Magic get the credit, and justifiably so. But I think the system Pop had would have been too restrictive for Magic. That said... Pop works things out with Manu, and he is turnover prone, so I think he would have worked out something with Magic.



I think Pop would have been great with Shaq. I think Shaq would have been a much better player under Pop. I think guys like Kareem and Wilt, as young players, might have clashed a little, but the veteran incarnations of both would have excelled with Pop.

LeBron seems to have a lot of respect for Pop, and I think a young LBJ would have loved to work with Pop and even now would fit Pop's system. LBJ would want the ball more than Pop is used to giving the ball to one guy, but LBJ is interested in sharing the ball and getting an open shot for the best shooter. I think LBJ and Pop would have been one of the great coaching-player duos in the history of the game.

ewing
03-23-2017, 11:52 PM
There are certain players who were their team's coaches. Jordan is the first that comes to mind. Jordan would not want a guy capping his minutes. Or deciding plays for him. P-Jax had a system that let Jordan dominate the ball and worked: the triangle. He was lucky in LAL that he had Kobe who was similar, and Shaq who he could just dump the ball into 25-30 times a game who could also pass.

In New York, there is nobody like that. The system works with guys like Jordan, Kobe, McGrady, likely Harden. But not with a guy like Melo.

With Pop's 'sharing' system, the ball would have come out of Jordan's hands. Jordan was a willing passer, but he wanted to be the one passing and making the calls, and when he wasn't, he wanted a talented beta who knew who to pass it to. Pop's system wouldn't have worked well with Jordan. Or Kobe. And most obviously not Iverson.

I don't think it would have worked terribly well with Zeke either... and there are a few others who wouldn't have excelled, but it would have worked well enough.

Magic is an interesting instance. I get the feeling like he wouldn't have wanted to be coached. He wanted to coach the players himself. He essentially ran three coaches out of town: McKinney, Westhead and Riley. Two of them championship coaches. Riley he tolerated, because Riley let them run the style he wanted, but after their re-peat, many in LAL (and I'm basing this on interviews I read and Jerry West's book) felt like Riley was taking more credit than he deserved and became a personality in his own right. Nothing overt mind you, but the sense I get was that Riley knew he wasn't welcome in LAL and decided to leave on his own terms and save face. McKinney and Westhead were more overt.

Bottom line: Magic wanted to be the guy calling the shots and getting the credit. That said, he was a generous player and great leader. Pop's low-key approach, and humility would have made him a good fit with Magic, because he would happily let Magic get the credit, and justifiably so. But I think the system Pop had would have been too restrictive for Magic. That said... Pop works things out with Manu, and he is turnover prone, so I think he would have worked out something with Magic.



I think Pop would have been great with Shaq. I think Shaq would have been a much better player under Pop. I think guys like Kareem and Wilt, as young players, might have clashed a little, but the veteran incarnations of both would have excelled with Pop.

LeBron seems to have a lot of respect for Pop, and I think a young LBJ would have loved to work with Pop and even now would fit Pop's system. LBJ would want the ball more than Pop is used to giving the ball to one guy, but LBJ is interested in sharing the ball and getting an open shot for the best shooter. I think LBJ and Pop would have been one of the great coaching-player duos in the history of the game.

i disagree with most of this post. We've seen Pop win with a half court post iso post up style, with ball movement and shooting 3s, with Timmy's post up, Tony's one on one, with ball movement, with Twin Towers and Small ball. You're telling me having Micheal Jordan would be a problem for him? you seem to be looking for problems. Pop's a great coach having MJ or Magic wouldn't be a problem for Pops. Thats a solution

kdspurman
03-24-2017, 09:55 AM
i disagree with most of this post. We've seen Pop win with a half court post iso post up style, with ball movement and shooting 3s, with Timmy's post up, Tony's one on one, with ball movement, with Twin Towers and Small ball. You're telling me having Micheal Jordan would be a problem for him? you seem to be looking for problems. Pop's a great coach having MJ or Magic wouldn't be a problem for Pops.

Agreed.. One of Pop's greatest strengths is his ability to adapt to how the game is being played, and the ability to adapt to the personnel he has.

Scoots
03-24-2017, 10:28 AM
Agreed.. One of Pop's greatest strengths is his ability to adapt to how the game is being played, and the ability to adapt to the personnel he has.

... and winning solves most personality issues pretty quick.

I still think Pop would have a problem with a superstar who didn't put high effort in on D though.

KnicksorBust
03-24-2017, 11:40 AM
Guys like Jordan and Magic are so competitive and care so much about winning that Pop would love them. Throw "systems" out the window. He would let MJ dominate the ball and let Magic run transition. Pop builds his offense logically around his team not the other way around.

KnicksorBust
03-24-2017, 11:42 AM
I think all great players would like to play for Pop, but a lot of the great players would argue their point regardless of their coach and want it their way regardless ... Pop would have to convince them, something he hasn't had to do in a long time. Some would clash because they play substandard D.

What about someone like Kobe who has a huge ego and takes a ton of bad shots?

Hawkeye15
03-24-2017, 11:49 AM
i disagree with most of this post. We've seen Pop win with a half court post iso post up style, with ball movement and shooting 3s, with Timmy's post up, Tony's one on one, with ball movement, with Twin Towers and Small ball. You're telling me having Micheal Jordan would be a problem for him? you seem to be looking for problems. Pop's a great coach having MJ or Magic wouldn't be a problem for Pops. Thats a solution

don't get Bruno started on Pops last minute coaching in game 6 of the 2013 finals...

Hawkeye15
03-24-2017, 11:54 AM
What about someone like Kobe who has a huge ego and takes a ton of bad shots?

I always thought it was funny the contrast between Phil and Pops. In the midst of a 12-2 run against his Lakers, Phil would be kicked back, "figure it out" type attitude. If Manu missed a defensive assignment that led to a layup, Pops would fly of the bench, time out, and in Manu's face haha.

Considering Kobe would go against the man, and refuse to shoot when Phil brought up his selfishness, I can't imagine Kobe taking a coach like Pops well, who would treat him the same as he would Matt Bonner..

Heediot
03-26-2017, 01:21 PM
Couldn't Pops get Iverson to play the Parker role as a slasher/driver and midrange guy? Or y'all don't think Iverson buys in? I think the combo of Pops and Duncan may slow his roll. Winning and ships talk and help a lot. Although we've seen guys like Kobe/Lebron/Shaq cause discord with legit title contenders.

NYKalltheway
03-26-2017, 02:09 PM
I don't think Iverson would clash. Or Isiah. I actually feel that Pop could have made AI into a modern day Isiah.

I went for Jordan, Barkley, Shaq, Lebron and Kobe. Don't know so much about Wilt's relationships with managers to decide on him.
I also voted for others: Karl Malone, Shawn Kemp and Stephon Marbury(not really an all time great but a talent that could have been mentioned) come to mind as potentially awkward situations with Pop.


Jordan and Barkley would clash but I don't think it would be enough to tear them apart. They'd respect the coach.
I'm pretty confident though that he wouldn't tolerate Kobe, Lebron and/or Shaq.

KnicksorBust
03-26-2017, 02:48 PM
What about someone like Kobe who has a huge ego and takes a ton of bad shots?

I always thought it was funny the contrast between Phil and Pops. In the midst of a 12-2 run against his Lakers, Phil would be kicked back, "figure it out" type attitude. If Manu missed a defensive assignment that led to a layup, Pops would fly of the bench, time out, and in Manu's face haha.

Considering Kobe would go against the man, and refuse to shoot when Phil brought up his selfishness, I can't imagine Kobe taking a coach like Pops well, who would treat him the same as he would Matt Bonner..

Kobe imo is the hardest one to figure out bc he is diehard competitor who loves the game and my theory is Pop would find a way to make it work with players like that but could Kobe handle getting torn to shreds like Parker used to when just entered the league? I actually think he would fall in line if it was HS rookie Kobe and Duncan was on the team. People seem to underestimate Kobe's bball IQ. I think he would love playing the game the right way and waiting till the end to take over. Instead with Shaq and PJ as his leaders he was allowed to embellish on his bad habits. Later in his career Kobe would have clashed big time with Pop.

JasonJohnHorn
03-27-2017, 09:27 PM
i disagree with most of this post. We've seen Pop win with a half court post iso post up style, with ball movement and shooting 3s, with Timmy's post up, Tony's one on one, with ball movement, with Twin Towers and Small ball. You're telling me having Micheal Jordan would be a problem for him? you seem to be looking for problems. Pop's a great coach having MJ or Magic wouldn't be a problem for Pops. Thats a solution

Bro... this isn't about a coach having a problem with a player, it's about a player having a problem with a coach.

Pop is a great coach and could maximize just about any skill set. But that doesn't mean that the players would approve of his systems.

If your argument is Pop could maximize those skill sets, you won't get an argument from me.

JasonJohnHorn
03-27-2017, 09:28 PM
don't get Bruno started on Pops last minute coaching in game 6 of the 2013 finals...

Don't get me started on that either. Back-to-back for Timmy and six rings. Man....

Jeffy25
03-28-2017, 12:52 AM
Anyone who is a true all time great wouldn't have an issue playing team ball and defense

Iverson couldn't do it

Kobe is the only true all-time great that couldn't do it.

ewing
03-28-2017, 08:19 AM
Bro... this isn't about a coach having a problem with a player, it's about a player having a problem with a coach.

Pop is a great coach and could maximize just about any skill set. But that doesn't mean that the players would approve of his systems.

If your argument is Pop could maximize those skill sets, you won't get an argument from me.

the point his he has adjusted his system to match his talent and/or take advantage of league trends/match up with comp over and over again. When the the Knicks got Billups i said **** why would you make this guy a lead guard for Mike Dantoni. I like Billups and i like Mike but they don't fit b/c Mike has one dominate philosophy. Pop isn't like that

AntiG
03-28-2017, 10:02 AM
Shaq and AI. The guys that didn't like discipline and PRACTICE? WE'RE TALKING BOUT PRACTICE!

KnicksorBust
03-28-2017, 11:45 AM
I'm surprised over 40% have picked Jordan. Jordan plays both ends of the floor and is a competitive machine. Pop would love him and TOTALLY build his offense around MJ. Just look at the numbers Kawhi Leonard is putting up now that Duncan/Parker/Manu aren't top scorers anymore. If you think Pop is stupid enough to try and make MJ be another ball mover as if he is equal to Boris Diaw you have lost your mind.

Shammyguy3
03-28-2017, 02:35 PM
I'm surprised over 40% have picked Jordan. Jordan plays both ends of the floor and is a competitive machine. Pop would love him and TOTALLY build his offense around MJ. Just look at the numbers Kawhi Leonard is putting up now that Duncan/Parker/Manu aren't top scorers anymore. If you think Pop is stupid enough to try and make MJ be another ball mover as if he is equal to Boris Diaw you have lost your mind.was just about to say something along these lines