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mrblisterdundee
03-21-2017, 11:03 AM
NBA Commissioner Adam Silver sent a memo to team owners about resting players, which he called "a significant issue":

In the memo, Silver informed teams that the issue will be a prime topic of discussion at the next NBA board of governors meeting April 6 in New York and warned of ‎"significant penalties" for teams that don't abide by the league's standing rules for providing ‎"notice to the league office, their opponent, and the media immediately upon a determination that a player will not participate in a game due to rest."
- Ramona Shelburne, ESPN (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18962901/resting-star-players-significant-issue-league)

da ThRONe
03-21-2017, 01:26 PM
It's really funny watching industries tip toe around the main issue. The problem is that the season has too many games. The league would not only be far more enjoyable at about 60games it would ultimately be more profitable long term.

Scoots
03-21-2017, 01:29 PM
NBA Commissioner Adam Silver sent a memo to team owners about resting players, which he called "a significant issue":

I believe the Warriors announced who would be resting in advance ... I think it was not long after their previous game ended. So Silver probably wasn't talking about the Warriors.

Scoots
03-21-2017, 01:30 PM
It's really funny watching industries tip toe around the main issue. The problem is that the season has too many games. The league would not only be far more enjoyable at about 60games it would ultimately be more profitable long term.

Another thing they tip toe around is that gamblers don't like to have the lineup change last minute.

ewing
03-21-2017, 01:32 PM
Another thing they tip toe around is that gamblers don't like to have the lineup change last minute.

Warriors and Cavs have been lucky Jordan didn't have any action on the games they "rested"

Hawkeye15
03-21-2017, 01:33 PM
so? All teams will do is analyze the schedule when it first comes out, and decide when to rest players. Easy to make adjustments a few days out to compensate for injuries, etc.

Teams want to be able to rest players. It can't be stopped. Sorry to shake my stick at this, but each generation gets softer, why would sports be any different?

JLynn943
03-21-2017, 01:41 PM
Maybe if the league was more competitive where every win really mattered teams wouldn't rest their stars, but the benefit of resting outweighs the cost of (probably) losing. Good luck solving that and getting people to agree to it.

SteBO
03-21-2017, 01:49 PM
Stern memos is all the commish can do unfortunately. All teams would do is mask "rest" behind "sore ankles", truth or not. Dan Gilbert, Joe Lacob, Pop, etc. are scoffing at this....

mikekhelxD
03-21-2017, 01:50 PM
Wont be the loophole basically get your stars to start then take them out on the very first dead ball? I dont think the commish will mandate minimum minutes played per game

Scoots
03-21-2017, 01:54 PM
Stern memos is all the commish can do unfortunately. All teams would do is mask "rest" behind "sore ankles", truth or not. Dan Gilbert, Joe Lacob, Pop, etc. are scoffing at this....

Stern was the previous commissioner.

Scoots
03-21-2017, 01:55 PM
Wont be the loophole basically get your stars to start then take them out on the very first dead ball? I dont think the commish will mandate minimum minutes played per game

Or just don't put them on the plane.

WITZ
03-21-2017, 02:11 PM
I believe the Warriors announced who would be resting in advance ... I think it was not long after their previous game ended. So Silver probably wasn't talking about the Warriors.

They rested 3 healthy players pretty sure he is talking about the warriors lol.

valade16
03-21-2017, 02:16 PM
I imagine that the NBA is telling them that in exchange for agreeing to the extra week of the season and less pre-season they expect marquee players not to be rested on national TV days.

This is a hard thing for the NBA to stop, suppose they did come out with a rule saying players who are capable of playing have to play during nationally televised games and I imagine suddenly these players come down with "mysterious" injuries like cramps.

warfelg
03-21-2017, 02:23 PM
I imagine that the NBA is telling them that in exchange for agreeing to the extra week of the season and less pre-season they expect marquee players not to be rested on national TV days.

I think it's a great compromise. An extra two weeks to the season (one week wouldn't make much of a difference), change the playoffs to 5-7-7-7, no or minimal back to backs and they are home-home only.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 03:06 PM
so? All teams will do is analyze the schedule when it first comes out, and decide when to rest players. Easy to make adjustments a few days out to compensate for injuries, etc.

Teams want to be able to rest players. It can't be stopped. Sorry to shake my stick at this, but each generation gets softer, why would sports be any different?

softer? personally no offense i think that is a lazy take on this... i think wiser/smarter etc is the better road... even in todays game if we didnt have all the knowledge we have guys would go ham and rarely rest... its the business side of it and so on down the list now... we have social media and basketball bigger than it ever has been in terms of revenue... guys think of themselves as either temples or business products now and they want what they put in... its completely understandable... we look at these guys like they are business products but then get mad when they act for themselves in a business way... we have come so far in the health aspect and the brand aspect that these guys arent comfortable going 82 games a year and rightfully so. Rest helps... guys no longer bench like morons or smoke cigs or drink before the game... information and a **** ton of it changes the way sports work... it is happening in every other sport currently and it will continue to happen... its just not beneficial to play the entire regular season and not get regular rest nor is it smart.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 03:09 PM
I believe the Warriors announced who would be resting in advance ... I think it was not long after their previous game ended. So Silver probably wasn't talking about the Warriors.

its pretty clear he is talking about the warriors and if i am the warriors i am laughing my *** off right now. when silver and other executives deal with the grit and grind in a physical manner then he can cry me a river.

Saddletramp
03-21-2017, 04:13 PM
its pretty clear he is talking about the warriors and if i am the warriors i am laughing my *** off right now. when silver and other executives deal with the grit and grind in a physical manner then he can cry me a river.

And when Kerr or Pop or Curry work their way up to become commissioner or an owner, than they can tell everyone to rest whenever they feel like. Everyone plays a part, bro.

Saddletramp
03-21-2017, 04:20 PM
End of the day though, what are they going to do? Need a week in advance notice if teams are resting multiple guys? Have an NBA doctor evaluate players? I'm sure these guys play through a lot of pain/fatigue anyway so it wouldn't be hard to "fake" anything.


But the NBA should have a backup game for tv just in case something like the last few weeks happen. People that go to the games? SOL, buddy.

TrueFan420
03-21-2017, 04:52 PM
End of the day though, what are they going to do? Need a week in advance notice if teams are resting multiple guys? Have an NBA doctor evaluate players? I'm sure these guys play through a lot of pain/fatigue anyway so it wouldn't be hard to "fake" anything.


But the NBA should have a backup game for tv just in case something like the last few weeks happen. People that go to the games? SOL, buddy.
A back up game for TV isn't a bad idea. But they really just need to redo how they schedule games. They could cut out the back to backs and better plan how many miles they fly. That's the real issue. Playing a game then getting on a plane and flying thousands of miles and playing another game the next day. Its rough on the body. They sort those out and it will go a long way to correcting the issue at hand.

Saddletramp
03-21-2017, 05:00 PM
A back up game for TV isn't a bad idea. But they really just need to redo how they schedule games. They could cut out the back to backs and better plan how many miles they fly. That's the real issue. Playing a game then getting on a plane and flying thousands of miles and playing another game the next day. Its rough on the body. They sort those out and it will go a long way to correcting the issue at hand.

Totally agree. I'd love to see the only back to backs being home back to backs, or only a few hundred miles. 500 or so.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 05:42 PM
And when Kerr or Pop or Curry work their way up to become commissioner or an owner, than they can tell everyone to rest whenever they feel like. Everyone plays a part, bro.

sure being a hand picked whipping boy of stern takes a special kind of skill set. Do we have players telling the commish how to go about endorsements or which executives should be in certain front officers? 2 way street... These are the players bodies... Your analogy is flat out not smart. There are things that coincide with the front office and players but the grind of the NBA season is something only players can understand period... That is why that analogy doesnt work... The league isnt losing money... I also dont blame the league for much and usually side with the league but not here... you cant tell guys when and when not to rest while sitting in an ivory tower.

ewing
03-21-2017, 05:48 PM
softer? personally no offense i think that is a lazy take on this... i think wiser/smarter etc is the better road... even in todays game if we didnt have all the knowledge we have guys would go ham and rarely rest... its the business side of it and so on down the list now... we have social media and basketball bigger than it ever has been in terms of revenue... guys think of themselves as either temples or business products now and they want what they put in... its completely understandable... we look at these guys like they are business products but then get mad when they act for themselves in a business way... we have come so far in the health aspect and the brand aspect that these guys arent comfortable going 82 games a year and rightfully so. Rest helps... guys no longer bench like morons or smoke cigs or drink before the game... information and a **** ton of it changes the way sports work... it is happening in every other sport currently and it will continue to happen... its just not beneficial to play the entire regular season and not get regular rest nor is it smart.

Please. We have NBA players pulling the victim card bc they are asked to play basketball and you are defending them. You get paid to play basketball. If you are healthy and there is a game on the schedule you should go play basketball. If at the end of the year you don't win a ring it wasn't bc you weren't rested or bc of the commish or whatever entitled ******** you can come up with, it's bc you weren't good enough. Now enjoy having the greatest job in the world and play basketball for millions


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ewing
03-21-2017, 05:56 PM
sure being a hand picked whipping boy of stern takes a special kind of skill set. Do we have players telling the commish how to go about endorsements or which executives should be in certain front officers? 2 way street... These are the players bodies... Your analogy is flat out not smart. There are things that coincide with the front office and players but the grind of the NBA season is something only players can understand period... That is why that analogy doesnt work... The league isnt losing money... I also dont blame the league for much and usually side with the league but not here... you cant tell guys when and when not to rest while sitting in an ivory tower.

Sure you can. You rest on your time. Why is that so hard to get?


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More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 06:09 PM
you are being shortsighted ewing... its not your fault its the society we live in but even if they do make millions its still a job.... all jobs people get to take time off.. they just do. Why is this any different? because they make millions and because their jobs may not be as hard but who are we to tell them how hard something is or isnt? your end all be all factor is the money they make and looking at basketball like its a game... The majority that are being expected to play game in and game out are the superstars.... that is unfair but whatever fine they get paid the most usually... except that is no longer true either to a point... but these superstars are the cream of the crop and arent suppose to get tired because they only do this sport 8 months out of the year or so? but lets forget that these top guys are training every day in and out even in the off season and eating a certain perfect way and treating their bodies like machines while not being able to have the care free attitude some of us have every day with our meh jobs... Its still a job.... they still deserve rest nomatter how much they get paid... Its not their fault that they are making millions nor is it a problem but treating this like its street ball is just not smart nor logical.... i bet even stern took a ton of time off and i bet silver does as well. These guys play a demanding sport and are being ridiculed for missing a few games a year while looking at the bigger picture... whats amazing to me is if they dont look at that bigger picture and play in 82 and then get to the finals and burn out and lose people then ridicule them for losing... its dumb.

people act like basketball is just 82 games a year and the playoffs... these guys are training hours a day in gyms killing their bodies to not fall behind in such a demanding sport... these guys dont really have the luxury of eating fast food and so on... these guys have to deal with cameras/trainers/the grind of the season/injuries/diets/travel and year round training but we act like its 82 games and the playoffs.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 06:20 PM
FML... There is 2 things that make me sick to my stomach... Arguing for ownership/front office and arguing for the warriors and I am literally doing both in this thread... NOT WORTH... Goodbye.

SteBO
03-21-2017, 06:22 PM
MTM....I'm having hard time finding a single thing wrong in anything you've posted thus far. But you must understand how difficult it is for the common man to listen to millionaire athletes ***** about needing rest. Unlike we mere mortals, they get a damn off-season and probably don't start getting back in the swing of these until a couple months before training camp, and that's referring to the dedicated athlete who's strict about his craft.

SteBO
03-21-2017, 06:26 PM
Just playing devils advocate here....I see both sides but I lean more towards team/players here because asking them to put business interests ahead competitive interests is asking a lot. Especially with the emphasis we put on winning titles....

Saddletramp
03-21-2017, 06:27 PM
sure being a hand picked whipping boy of stern takes a special kind of skill set. Do we have players telling the commish how to go about endorsements or which executives should be in certain front officers? 2 way street... These are the players bodies... Your analogy is flat out not smart. There are things that coincide with the front office and players but the grind of the NBA season is something only players can understand period... That is why that analogy doesnt work... The league isnt losing money... I also dont blame the league for much and usually side with the league but not here... you cant tell guys when and when not to rest while sitting in an ivory tower.

You said it yourself, it's a two way street. Front office people dictate and handle the decisions. Players..........play. Here's an idea, if you're physically unable to play, insurance should kick in. If it's just "rest", the player should donate their pay.


That'll fix the "resting" problem.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 06:34 PM
You said it yourself, it's a two way street. Front office people dictate and handle the decisions. Players..........play. Here's an idea, if you're physically unable to play, insurance should kick in. If it's just "rest", the player should donate their pay.


That'll fix the "resting" problem.

so then when executives take days off they should be in the same boat right? or anybody for that matter? like i said shortsighted.

tredigs
03-21-2017, 06:45 PM
Lebron responded - shockingly - he thinks the whole memo from Silver is aimed at himself and the Cavs. Safe to say Lebron is not a member of PSD.

Saddletramp
03-21-2017, 06:46 PM
so then when executives take days off they should be in the same boat right? or anybody for that matter? like i said shortsighted.

Lol. This'll go nowhere. Take it easy

In the next collective bargaining agreement, we'll give every player 5 games off per year to rest. You know, like sick days.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 06:50 PM
Lebron responded - shockingly - he thinks the whole memo from Silver is aimed at himself and the Cavs. Safe to say Lebron is not a member of PSD.

He thinks it started because of him and his resting over the last few years.. that is different.

ewing
03-21-2017, 06:54 PM
so then when executives take days off they should be in the same boat right? or anybody for that matter? like i said shortsighted.

Players do get days off. Lots of them.


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TheIlladelph16
03-21-2017, 06:55 PM
I understand both sides of the argument.

Considering the NBA and the individual teams are a business, I get wanting marquee players to be playing in the big match up games. There's a legitimate gripe there. Ultimately, I side with the coaches and players because I want to see the best possible long-term product. Sports science generally "agrees" that providing players with regular rest is beneficial for long term health. Logically, it improves the on court product when it matters most too. I would also like to see these guys enjoy their lives after basketball and not be physical shells.

Problem is, I don't think there's really a legitimate solution that appeases all of the following: fans, players, coaches, owners, Adam Silver. They all have differing interests, some even conflicting. Fans want the best players playing as much as possible, but they also want to see those players play forever and sustain success. If you break it down, it is a contradictory, impossible task to achieve.

I don't like the "soft generation" argument either. Ask some of the former NFL players who are now losing their minds, dying in their forties and fifties, killing themselves, etc. if they would prefer the benefit of sports science now compared to what they had. It's not more admirable that the previous generation of players and coaches shredded their bodies without an understanding of the short and long term consequences. They are literally a product of their time due simply to when they were born.

tredigs
03-21-2017, 06:56 PM
He thinks it started because of him and his resting over the last few years.. that is different.

It's equally stupid and narcissistic. Pop and the Spurs were fined a quarter million dollars for a single game once. LBJ has taken weeks off for vacation (sorry, "physical and spiritual rehab") mid season and never been given a slap on the wrist. And the biggest uproar about this of late was Golden State.

ewing
03-21-2017, 06:57 PM
you are being shortsighted ewing... its not your fault its the society we live in but even if they do make millions its still a job.... all jobs people get to take time off.. they just do. Why is this any different? because they make millions and because their jobs may not be as hard but who are we to tell them how hard something is or isnt? your end all be all factor is the money they make and looking at basketball like its a game... The majority that are being expected to play game in and game out are the superstars.... that is unfair but whatever fine they get paid the most usually... except that is no longer true either to a point... but these superstars are the cream of the crop and arent suppose to get tired because they only do this sport 8 months out of the year or so? but lets forget that these top guys are training every day in and out even in the off season and eating a certain perfect way and treating their bodies like machines while not being able to have the care free attitude some of us have every day with our meh jobs... Its still a job.... they still deserve rest nomatter how much they get paid... Its not their fault that they are making millions nor is it a problem but treating this like its street ball is just not smart nor logical.... i bet even stern took a ton of time off and i bet silver does as well. These guys play a demanding sport and are being ridiculed for missing a few games a year while looking at the bigger picture... whats amazing to me is if they dont look at that bigger picture and play in 82 and then get to the finals and burn out and lose people then ridicule them for losing... its dumb.

people act like basketball is just 82 games a year and the playoffs... these guys are training hours a day in gyms killing their bodies to not fall behind in such a demanding sport... these guys dont really have the luxury of eating fast food and so on... these guys have to deal with cameras/trainers/the grind of the season/injuries/diets/travel and year round training but we act like its 82 games and the playoffs.

The humanity! You know who else works out every day? me. Cry for Ewing MTM. Cry for me


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More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 07:01 PM
The humanity! You know who else works out every day? me. Cry for Ewing MTM. Cry for me


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i would have taken care of you myself had you not jumped to the first old piece of *** that returned... do we even know what bucky has? yuck.

Jamiecballer
03-21-2017, 07:42 PM
This is a legitimate issue on both sides and the only fix is fewer games. It's common sense which is of course why it won't happen. Ridiculous.

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Jamiecballer
03-21-2017, 07:47 PM
Saying suck it up is stupid. This is obviously science driven and backed by a ton of data that did not exist in decades previous regarding performance. Intelligent teams will use that data. And players push themselves harder and faster than they ever did. The sport needs to evolve with science.

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Saddletramp
03-21-2017, 07:50 PM
This is a legitimate issue on both sides and the only fix is fewer games. It's common sense which is of course why it won't happen. Ridiculous.

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Yeah, but these players don't want fewer games. If the NBA cut the games down to 60, they'd get paid less and some of these stats guys won't be able to catch people on the all time list. Same as in any sport, even if it makes the most sense, it won't be accepted by all.

One Nut Kruk
03-21-2017, 07:59 PM
Please. We have NBA players pulling the victim card bc they are asked to play basketball and you are defending them. You get paid to play basketball. If you are healthy and there is a game on the schedule you should go play basketball. If at the end of the year you don't win a ring it wasn't bc you weren't rested or bc of the commish or whatever entitled ******** you can come up with, it's bc you weren't good enough. Now enjoy having the greatest job in the world and play basketball for millions


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No kidding. It's amazing to me that people defend the other side. Science? Oh boo f'n hoo. These guys take better care of themselves than any other era and they need rest when they are getting paid millions to play a game? Then get months off in the off season. Such a bunch of f'n babies. They won't be able to stop this but that doesn't negate the fact that these guys are pathetic. Soft is exactly right.

Jamiecballer
03-21-2017, 08:03 PM
Yeah, but these players don't want fewer games. If the NBA cut the games down to 60, they'd get paid less and some of these stats guys won't be able to catch people on the all time list. Same as in any sport, even if it makes the most sense, it won't be accepted by all.
Right, but if the interest of everyone was involved was the good of the sport long term, then those who oppose can go to hell. I say cut it to 76 games, start a week earlier and then call it a night

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Jamiecballer
03-21-2017, 08:05 PM
Besides is there a sport where "totals" are more irrelevant than basketball? Nobody gives a crap about raw totals anyways

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Jamiecballer
03-21-2017, 08:07 PM
There seems to be a lot of antagonism towards players for something that is entirely coach/organization driven. That's weird.

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One Nut Kruk
03-21-2017, 08:14 PM
The players certainly don't fight it very hard. Coach tells me I'm not playing due to rest, I'd probably tell him to go **** himself. But these clowns seem to enjoy being spectators...laughing as your team is getting crushed while sipping on a coffee. It's an embarrassment.

Jamiecballer
03-21-2017, 08:19 PM
Okay, fair enough. If you aren't playing you stay off the court and bench. If that's your objection it's optics and not indicative of soft or any of that old timer narratives that people are throwing around

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One Nut Kruk
03-21-2017, 08:34 PM
Okay, fair enough. If you aren't playing you stay off the court and bench. If that's your objection it's optics and not indicative of soft or any of that old timer narratives that people are throwing around

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Oh I got a bit of old timer in me, don't get me wrong. I understand rest but I don't see why they need it so often and why they rest numerous starters at the same time, basically giving the game away. It bothers me but whatever, it is what it is. But yes, I guess the optics perhaps bother me even more. If I wasn't playing and my team was getting hammered, I'd still be pissed. I don't like the letter L.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 09:05 PM
The players certainly don't fight it very hard. Coach tells me I'm not playing due to rest, I'd probably tell him to go **** himself. But these clowns seem to enjoy being spectators...laughing as your team is getting crushed while sipping on a coffee. It's an embarrassment.

so if your boss told you to take a day off with pay to rest you would tell him no? do you wanna ****ing bet 90 percent would take it across the board and you would be in the world wide minority and it wouldnt be close... But again logic... thinking basketball is a game and not a business like any other job.

ewing
03-21-2017, 09:06 PM
No kidding. It's amazing to me that people defend the other side. Science? Oh boo f'n hoo. These guys take better care of themselves than any other era and they need rest when they are getting paid millions to play a game? Then get months off in the off season. Such a bunch of f'n babies. They won't be able to stop this but that doesn't negate the fact that these guys are pathetic. Soft is exactly right.

this Science argument is total BS too. This isn't concussions. The body needs to be rested to preform its best its also needs to be challenged to grow stronger. the body is more susceptible to injury when weary, it also needs to be pushed to grow tougher. no way the GS or Cavs doctors can determine when a guy should be rested to avoid injury that day and no way they can say they will be better in 2 months if they take off a day now. just soft.

ewing
03-21-2017, 09:07 PM
so if your boss told you to take a day off with pay to rest you would tell him no? do you wanna ****ing bet 90 percent would take it across the board and you would be in the world wide minority and it wouldnt be close... But again logic... thinking basketball is a game and not a business like any other job.

no wonder i left you

One Nut Kruk
03-21-2017, 09:09 PM
Yeah, real similiar. I always dreamed of one day running a CNC machine.

It may be a business but it is not like any other job.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 09:11 PM
no wonder i left you

:laugh:

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 09:13 PM
Yeah, real similiar. I always dreamed of one day running a CNC machine.

It may be a business but it is not like any other job.

why shouldnt it be like any other job? because the money they make? should silver work every 5 days throughout the entire year because i bet you he doesnt. What about coaches? Do coaches have to train all off season and eat right etc etc etc or do they get down time and time off? the one way hate for the players is insane.

One Nut Kruk
03-21-2017, 09:17 PM
Your opinion on the matter is void and null. Conflict of interest. Of course you're going to side with the players, the guy you think is the greatest player on earth plays 8 minutes per month.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 09:24 PM
Your opinion on the matter is void and null. Conflict of interest. Of course you're going to side with the players, the guy you think is the greatest player on earth plays 8 minutes per month.

So what I get from this is... I cant answer your question or back up my rebuttal with any weight whatsoever so in that case i will just deflect/insult and move on... so the usual? Works for me... Saves us both time.

One Nut Kruk
03-21-2017, 09:28 PM
The fact that you even have to ask that question is astounding. That is why I am done with you.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2017, 09:29 PM
NFL players only play 16 games a year... they make a ton and play every 7 days usually... they play the least amount of months as any sport... THEY GET A ****ING BYE WEEK AND THEY DONT PLAY MUCH IN PRESEASON........................

**** that noise... They work for the man and because of that the bye week is gone... 1 game every 7 days in a sport where you play offense or defense and not both? **** THAT... They need to play 3 games a week AT LEAST.


Lets do the math... That would equate to about 5 rest games per season per nba player... THESE LAZY ****ERS.

Scoots
03-21-2017, 11:28 PM
There seems to be a lot of antagonism towards players for something that is entirely coach/organization driven. That's weird.

I've been told by a friend who worked for an NBA agent that some players have very specific language about their care and them doing what the trainers say. They can get a second opinion and some do, but a lot of them have agreed in advance, and if a staff of trained professionals tell you what to eat that's what you eat if you want to be great, if a staff of trained professionals tells you what and how to lift that's what you do, if a staff of trained professionals tells you to take a day off then that's what you do.

Comparing modern day athletes to the older generations just doesn't work, and calling them lazy or soft is a joke. Modern athletes spend WAY more time, effort, and energy on the sport than they ever have before.

Complaining about it just more pointless whining.

lol, please
03-21-2017, 11:32 PM
:sleep:

Jeffy25
03-21-2017, 11:32 PM
shut the **** up Silver

1. It's good for the players
2. Stop scheduling nationally televised games as back to backs and you won't have as much of an issue
3. Maybe there are too many games?

When the first interest is money, then the sport and it's health quickly fall behind.


The comish works for the owners in raising the value of the sport and the owners franchise values
The NBAPA works for the players and works at raising the amount of money the players make and the NBAPA brings in as a whole

Nobody works for the good of the game.

Jeffy25
03-21-2017, 11:34 PM
I've been told by a friend who worked for an NBA agent that some players have very specific language about their care and them doing what the trainers say. They can get a second opinion and some do, but a lot of them have agreed in advance, and if a staff of trained professionals tell you what to eat that's what you eat if you want to be great, if a staff of trained professionals tells you what and how to lift that's what you do, if a staff of trained professionals tells you to take a day off then that's what you do.

Comparing modern day athletes to the older generations just doesn't work, and calling them lazy or soft is a joke. Modern athletes spend WAY more time, effort, and energy on the sport than they ever have before.

Complaining about it just more pointless whining.

agreed

The Nets today would give the 60's Celtics (with modern rules) hell just because they are so much more conditioned and deeper to do so.

They could out run them, out box them, and just wear them down.

Even if they can't shoot and create as well. By the end of a 7 game series, the Celtics would be worn the hell out.

da ThRONe
03-22-2017, 12:08 AM
Reducing the season if done right will lead to more revenue. The two things that make sports marketable is gambling and viewership. Reducing the season so each team only plays twice a week would do wonders for sports betting and fantasy sports. The league could pick two days during the week and Saturday for the marque games of the week.

Jamiecballer
03-22-2017, 12:25 AM
this Science argument is total BS too. This isn't concussions. The body needs to be rested to preform its best its also needs to be challenged to grow stronger. the body is more susceptible to injury when weary, it also needs to be pushed to grow tougher. no way the GS or Cavs doctors can determine when a guy should be rested to avoid injury that day and no way they can say they will be better in 2 months if they take off a day now. just soft.
Well nobody has made those claims so no wonder you think it's bull

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Jeffy25
03-22-2017, 12:26 AM
Reducing the season if done right will lead to more revenue. The two things that make sports marketable is gambling and viewership. Reducing the season so each team only plays twice a week would do wonders for sports betting and fantasy sports. The league could pick two days during the week and Saturday for the marque games of the week.

Yup

the traditionalist in me would hate that. Career records would never as well.


But one of the reasons the NFL does so well rating wise and revenue is because they only play 16 games a season. Every game is immensely important.

FlashBolt
03-22-2017, 12:39 AM
All I'm thinking about is the father or mother who took their child to one of these games and their favorite player is resting. I get the money and rest thing but it does suck. I'm in favor of resting home games and maybe they should be a bit more organized with it but on the road where there is ONE game per year, c'mon, you gotta show up. these guys get paid obscene amounts of money from the FANS. I went to at least ten NBA games in my lifetime. Three of them had LeBron (2x Miami and 1x Cleveland from 2009). I probably would have walked out and never purchase another ticket. When LeBron shows up, ticket prices are premium. I think I paid a few hundred dollars extra for three people.

FlashBolt
03-22-2017, 12:41 AM
Yup

the traditionalist in me would hate that. Career records would never as well.


But one of the reasons the NFL does so well rating wise and revenue is because they only play 16 games a season. Every game is immensely important.

and their stadiums hold more seats. but the players don't get paid more. NBA has the most household names in the states.

ewing
03-22-2017, 05:56 AM
Well nobody has made those claims so no wonder you think it's bull

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yeah you just go "science *****es" and then say those things. Like i said this is not concussions.

Vinylman
03-22-2017, 06:21 AM
A back up game for TV isn't a bad idea. But they really just need to redo how they schedule games. They could cut out the back to backs and better plan how many miles they fly. That's the real issue. Playing a game then getting on a plane and flying thousands of miles and playing another game the next day. Its rough on the body. They sort those out and it will go a long way to correcting the issue at hand.

when does this happen? You do know how big the united states is ... right?

Vinylman
03-22-2017, 06:31 AM
This is a legitimate issue on both sides and the only fix is fewer games. It's common sense which is of course why it won't happen. Ridiculous.

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Players would never agree to it

don't forget ... they get a larger portion of BRI than the owners at this point.

Vinylman
03-22-2017, 06:34 AM
Right, but if the interest of everyone was involved was the good of the sport long term, then those who oppose can go to hell. I say cut it to 76 games, start a week earlier and then call it a night

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They already did that this year.. maybe we should add a month to the season so the players can whine that the season is to long...

The lack of competitiveness at the top is driving this...

institute a hard cap and FA compensation and teams won't be able to rest players

Jeffy25
03-22-2017, 07:18 AM
Players would never agree to it

don't forget ... they get a larger portion of BRI than the owners at this point.



They already did that this year.. maybe we should add a month to the season so the players can whine that the season is to long...

The lack of competitiveness at the top is driving this...

institute a hard cap and FA compensation and teams won't be able to rest players

You mention players would never agree to something, and then offer up a hard cap as a solution.

ewing
03-22-2017, 08:13 AM
You mention players would never agree to something, and then offer up a hard cap as a solution.

maybe when they stop agreeing to play its time to stop asking for their consent.

Vinylman
03-22-2017, 08:26 AM
You mention players would never agree to something, and then offer up a hard cap as a solution.

Why wouldn't the players agree as long as the cap is set at the current LT level?

You are making an assumption that I would recommend to set it at the current cap...

that is unrealistic ... if you set it at the LT and put a floor in at 90% for each team player salaries actually go up

But the players have never agreed to anything that limits pay... right?

1. There is no rookie scale ... right?
2. They didn't agree to a lower # of years on contracts... right?
3. They didn't agree to do away with the S&T provision that could add an extra year to a guys deal... right?

The current CBA was never going to be an issue because of the EXPLOSION in national tv revenue... neither party had a reason for a work stoppage...

that won't always be the case

Scoots
03-22-2017, 08:55 AM
All I'm thinking about is the father or mother who took their child to one of these games and their favorite player is resting. I get the money and rest thing but it does suck. I'm in favor of resting home games and maybe they should be a bit more organized with it but on the road where there is ONE game per year, c'mon, you gotta show up. these guys get paid obscene amounts of money from the FANS. I went to at least ten NBA games in my lifetime. Three of them had LeBron (2x Miami and 1x Cleveland from 2009). I probably would have walked out and never purchase another ticket. When LeBron shows up, ticket prices are premium. I think I paid a few hundred dollars extra for three people.

Yeah, I agree that sucks. You can spend $10k to go to NY and get front row seats for the #1 show on Broadway only to find that the star you are there to see has the night off for rest. I don't know that it's still there but there used to be language on the back of the ticket that the money is for access to the show (game) not who will be on stage (court).

It's also "un-fair" that companies like ticketmaster and other ticket sales/processing companies charge as much as a 50% fee on the tickets, or that parking can be $40 for an event, or that you have to go to the game 2 hours early because of the time it takes to get in to the event, and it takes an hour after the game to get out, so a game is not just money but a huge investment in time too. And the food prices are crazy too ... sporting events and airports have captive audiences and charge 50% more because of it.

It's also "un-fair" that sports collect so much money from people who don't care or watch at all on the TV contracts.

But, the current reality is that the players don't choose how much they get paid, it's in the CBA, and the league and the owners are interested in getting as much money as possible out of the people regardless of the quality of the show. If you don't like it you can always choose to not be a consumer, and that is by FAR the most powerful thing you can do to make it change.

Scoots
03-22-2017, 09:10 AM
when does this happen? You do know how big the united states is ... right?

I don't know that a team has ever played a game, travelled 2000 miles and played a game the next day ... but I know it's been close. The Warriors rested their players for a back to back with 1200 miles between the games, and the Warriors regularly are among the most traveled teams. The scheduling and geography are not at all balanced, not that there is a way to make it balanced. It gets really bad sometimes. If you look at last year from the start of the season to the end of the calendar year the Lakers traveled 25,000 miles while in the same time the Cavs travelled 7,700 miles. That balanced out somewhat later but the western teams are always at the top of the list in miles traveled by many thousands of miles. It's not a BIG deal, but it is a factor.

Scoots
03-22-2017, 09:16 AM
Why wouldn't the players agree as long as the cap is set at the current LT level?

You are making an assumption that I would recommend to set it at the current cap...

that is unrealistic ... if you set it at the LT and put a floor in at 90% for each team player salaries actually go up

But the players have never agreed to anything that limits pay... right?

1. There is no rookie scale ... right?
2. They didn't agree to a lower # of years on contracts... right?
3. They didn't agree to do away with the S&T provision that could add an extra year to a guys deal... right?

The current CBA was never going to be an issue because of the EXPLOSION in national tv revenue... neither party had a reason for a work stoppage...

that won't always be the case

Players prefer shorter contracts because they believe they can make more money on shorter deals. But I don't see anything solving the schedule length issue. It's not player money, it's owner money that matters always.

Vinylman
03-22-2017, 11:09 AM
I don't know that a team has ever played a game, travelled 2000 miles and played a game the next day ... but I know it's been close. The Warriors rested their players for a back to back with 1200 miles between the games, and the Warriors regularly are among the most traveled teams. The scheduling and geography are not at all balanced, not that there is a way to make it balanced. It gets really bad sometimes. If you look at last year from the start of the season to the end of the calendar year the Lakers traveled 25,000 miles while in the same time the Cavs travelled 7,700 miles. That balanced out somewhat later but the western teams are always at the top of the list in miles traveled by many thousands of miles. It's not a BIG deal, but it is a factor.

As a fan of a west coast teams I am well aware of the imbalance...

I was merely commenting on the fact that his point was rarely if ever happening Also, the league is focused on time zone changes as much as the distance...

I assume you are talking about Minnie to SA... which is probably close to the max without a day off.

Anyway, I am more interested to see how this plays out during the next TV negotiation and the subsequent CBA.

One thing is for sure... anyone playing in the NBA should be thanking their lucky stars for the confluence of issues that have led to unprecedented revenue growth...

enjoy it while it lasts

Vinylman
03-22-2017, 11:12 AM
Players prefer shorter contracts because they believe they can make more money on shorter deals. But I don't see anything solving the schedule length issue. It's not player money, it's owner money that matters always.

you do realize that for every $ change in revenue the players get 52.5 cents.... the owners get lesss

at a minimum the players are equally motivated...

Shorter term deals are only the norm NOW as the cap is exploding... that is all over after this year...

I do agree they want opt outs though which is what I think you are driving at ... flexibility...

but they want that guarantee money more (ie they can have their cake and eat it too).

warfelg
03-22-2017, 11:21 AM
I like what CWeb and Bosh said in the players only broadcast:

Coaches need to pull back a little on practices in season. Have some more light practice or off days completely in season. Use those as rest days and don't punish the fans.

I think adding two weeks to the season, only home back to backs (or same city for NYK/Brkln and LAL/LAC) are allowed.

adidas2307
03-22-2017, 11:39 AM
Stern was the previous commissioner.

I think he was using stern as an adjective in this situation lol.

FlashBolt
03-22-2017, 11:40 AM
Yeah, I agree that sucks. You can spend $10k to go to NY and get front row seats for the #1 show on Broadway only to find that the star you are there to see has the night off for rest. I don't know that it's still there but there used to be language on the back of the ticket that the money is for access to the show (game) not who will be on stage (court).

It's also "un-fair" that companies like ticketmaster and other ticket sales/processing companies charge as much as a 50% fee on the tickets, or that parking can be $40 for an event, or that you have to go to the game 2 hours early because of the time it takes to get in to the event, and it takes an hour after the game to get out, so a game is not just money but a huge investment in time too. And the food prices are crazy too ... sporting events and airports have captive audiences and charge 50% more because of it.

It's also "un-fair" that sports collect so much money from people who don't care or watch at all on the TV contracts.

But, the current reality is that the players don't choose how much they get paid, it's in the CBA, and the league and the owners are interested in getting as much money as possible out of the people regardless of the quality of the show. If you don't like it you can always choose to not be a consumer, and that is by FAR the most powerful thing you can do to make it change.

bottom line though is if consumers quit watching and protest it, these players would be suiting up like superman. they're only going to keep doing it because their money is guaranteed.

Vinylman
03-22-2017, 11:42 AM
I like what CWeb and Bosh said in the players only broadcast:

Coaches need to pull back a little on practices in season. Have some more light practice or off days completely in season. Use those as rest days and don't punish the fans.

I think adding two weeks to the season, only home back to backs (or same city for NYK/Brkln and LAL/LAC) are allowed.


So ... another 2 weeks to the one already added? Do you want to add it at the end or the beginning?

You do realize that NBA viewership was crushed during the World Series which is why they historically have waited as long as possible to start the season.

Anyway, there were significant accommodations put in place this past year to help yet it appears that the players still need more nap time.

The easiest way to handle this is to just fine the teams and donate the money to some fund to buy tickets for kids that can't afford them.

kdspurman
03-22-2017, 11:47 AM
The players certainly don't fight it very hard. Coach tells me I'm not playing due to rest, I'd probably tell him to go **** himself. But these clowns seem to enjoy being spectators...laughing as your team is getting crushed while sipping on a coffee. It's an embarrassment.

Yea, it definitely doesn't work that way lol

ewing
03-22-2017, 11:49 AM
Yea, it definitely doesn't work that way lol

Yeah guys like LeBron and Curry have no influence on leaders like Lue and Kerr

Vee-Rex
03-22-2017, 11:52 AM
Back in mye dae, we walcked 100,000 miles evry daye ta skool and we wer so much tuffer!!! Doods tooday r week!

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/044/247/297.png

kdspurman
03-22-2017, 12:15 PM
Yeah guys like LeBron and Curry have no influence on leaders like Lue and Kerr

Of course they do, but ultimately it's up to the coach, (Though in Lebron's case he's basically the coach). Duncan always wanted to play when Pop wanted to rest him, and at times tried to get him to change his mind, to no avail.

warfelg
03-22-2017, 12:20 PM
So ... another 2 weeks to the one already added? Do you want to add it at the end or the beginning?

You do realize that NBA viewership was crushed during the World Series which is why they historically have waited as long as possible to start the season.

Anyway, there were significant accommodations put in place this past year to help yet it appears that the players still need more nap time.

The easiest way to handle this is to just fine the teams and donate the money to some fund to buy tickets for kids that can't afford them.

Beginning. Shorten pre-season. That adds space for 5-6 more games without going back to back which limits how many of those happen during the season.

Look at 99% of the rest days. Back end of a back to back in a 4 game week where one of the games was away.

Scoots
03-22-2017, 12:30 PM
As a fan of a west coast teams I am well aware of the imbalance...

I was merely commenting on the fact that his point was rarely if ever happening Also, the league is focused on time zone changes as much as the distance...

I assume you are talking about Minnie to SA... which is probably close to the max without a day off.

Anyway, I am more interested to see how this plays out during the next TV negotiation and the subsequent CBA.

One thing is for sure... anyone playing in the NBA should be thanking their lucky stars for the confluence of issues that have led to unprecedented revenue growth...

enjoy it while it lasts

I wonder if the next batch of TV contracts will actually go down. At least they will go up at a much slower rate with the explosion of streaming services the old media companies are scrambling to find the best solution and the old guard and sports have been propping each other up for the last decade as cord cutting has spread.

Scoots
03-22-2017, 12:34 PM
you do realize that for every $ change in revenue the players get 52.5 cents.... the owners get lesss

at a minimum the players are equally motivated...

Shorter term deals are only the norm NOW as the cap is exploding... that is all over after this year...

I do agree they want opt outs though which is what I think you are driving at ... flexibility...

but they want that guarantee money more (ie they can have their cake and eat it too).

The players as a whole get 52.5% ... the owner gets 47.5% minus what he has to pay for infrastructure. Also the owners are usually businessmen who focus on profit on a daily basis while the average player is a 20-something kid who thinks he's going to live forever and thinks they can live the rest of their lives on $10M.

Players unions have always wanted shorter contracts because shorter contracts means more flexibility and they figure that will benefit the most players. Individual players may want longer contracts for security, but as a group they've always wanted shorter contracts.

I still can't believe the owners ever gave in to guaranteed contracts.

Scoots
03-22-2017, 12:36 PM
So ... another 2 weeks to the one already added? Do you want to add it at the end or the beginning?

You do realize that NBA viewership was crushed during the World Series which is why they historically have waited as long as possible to start the season.

Anyway, there were significant accommodations put in place this past year to help yet it appears that the players still need more nap time.

The easiest way to handle this is to just fine the teams and donate the money to some fund to buy tickets for kids that can't afford them.

Do you (or anyone here) have the numbers of rest days this year vs last year?

Why do you assume the rest is driven by the player on average? I get the impression training staffs are the driving force for rest with several teams.

Vinylman
03-22-2017, 01:31 PM
Do you (or anyone here) have the numbers of rest days this year vs last year?

Why do you assume the rest is driven by the player on average? I get the impression training staffs are the driving force for rest with several teams.

This is what changed for the current year

As part of an NBA trend over the past several years, the league took steps to reduce the amount of back-to-back games for teams and four-game-in-five-day sets. Four-in-fives have been reduced by 26 percent from last season and no team will have more than one this season; the max per team last season was two.
Back-to-backs have been cut to 16.3 per team -- down from 17.8 last season and 19.3 two seasons ago. Back-to-backs per team now range between 14-18, down from 14-20 last season.

Also

Teams also will play twenty sets of four games in five nights down from seventy two seasons ago. Commissioner Silver also instituted a three-day schedule break after the All-Star Game for all teams. The all star game is usually set on a Tuesday night with the next three nights off for the entire league. Most teams will start up again on following Saturday with some teams off an extra day or two until schedule resumes.

they have cut back on B2Bs and especially 4 games in 5 nights (from 70 two years ago to only 20 this year).

Next year they are again starting even earlier by shortening the preseason (7-10 days).

Vinylman
03-22-2017, 01:45 PM
I wonder if the next batch of TV contracts will actually go down. At least they will go up at a much slower rate with the explosion of streaming services the old media companies are scrambling to find the best solution and the old guard and sports have been propping each other up for the last decade as cord cutting has spread.

I don't know if they will go down but you definitely won't see the growth...

ESPN is bleeding money due to the NBA deal and to a lesser extent the NFL deal...

The big issue the league will face is the local tv deals vs national on demand purchasing capabilities (obviously the ideal model for fans).

Scoots
03-22-2017, 03:22 PM
This is what changed for the current year

As part of an NBA trend over the past several years, the league took steps to reduce the amount of back-to-back games for teams and four-game-in-five-day sets. Four-in-fives have been reduced by 26 percent from last season and no team will have more than one this season; the max per team last season was two.
Back-to-backs have been cut to 16.3 per team -- down from 17.8 last season and 19.3 two seasons ago. Back-to-backs per team now range between 14-18, down from 14-20 last season.

Also

Teams also will play twenty sets of four games in five nights down from seventy two seasons ago. Commissioner Silver also instituted a three-day schedule break after the All-Star Game for all teams. The all star game is usually set on a Tuesday night with the next three nights off for the entire league. Most teams will start up again on following Saturday with some teams off an extra day or two until schedule resumes.

they have cut back on B2Bs and especially 4 games in 5 nights (from 70 two years ago to only 20 this year).

Next year they are again starting even earlier by shortening the preseason (7-10 days).

Fine, I understand that, but none of it has anything to do with the questions I asked.

Do you (or anyone) have the actual numbers on rest days last year vs this year?

Why do you assume the rest is the players idea on average and not coach/training staff/front office?

Scoots
03-22-2017, 03:24 PM
I don't know if they will go down but you definitely won't see the growth...

ESPN is bleeding money due to the NBA deal and to a lesser extent the NFL deal...

The big issue the league will face is the local tv deals vs national on demand purchasing capabilities (obviously the ideal model for fans).

Yeah, the supposed losses the sports departments have been having is what made me wonder if they might go down ... not total revenue but the size of the TV contracts.

Jamiecballer
03-22-2017, 04:19 PM
yeah you just go "science *****es" and then say those things. Like i said this is not concussions.

no, this is about peak performance and protecting the teams investments. organizations in professional sports don't do these things unless there is something that suggests it is advantageous to one or both of these things. are you foolish enough to believe that all information that is discovered in human history has come across your desk? just because they don't lay out compelling case studies to the fans that explain why they are resting players x,y & z this Saturday does not mean they do not have valid reasons for doing so.

ewing
03-22-2017, 04:32 PM
no, this is about peak performance and protecting the teams investments. organizations in professional sports don't do these things unless there is something that suggests it is advantageous to one or both of these things. are you foolish enough to believe that all information that is discovered in human history has come across your desk? just because they don't lay out compelling case studies to the fans that explain why they are resting players x,y & z this Saturday does not mean they do not have valid reasons for doing so.

So you assume there is some hidden concrete science and when someone questions them and you go "science *****es" :up:

Jamiecballer
03-22-2017, 04:59 PM
So you assume there is some hidden concrete science and when someone questions them and you go "science *****es" :up:

i believe it is far more rational to acknowledge ignorance of a situation when it is called for than to pretend otherwise or join the masses in spewing completely unfounded garbage.

ewing
03-22-2017, 05:22 PM
i believe it is far more rational to acknowledge ignorance of a situation when it is called for than to pretend otherwise or join the masses in spewing completely unfounded garbage.


"the masses" what are you a commie?

One Nut Kruk
03-22-2017, 05:33 PM
Yea, it definitely doesn't work that way lol

These aren't high school kids. Coaches and players clash all the time in pro sports.

One Nut Kruk
03-22-2017, 05:35 PM
Of course they do, but ultimately it's up to the coach, (Though in Lebron's case he's basically the coach). Duncan always wanted to play when Pop wanted to rest him, and at times tried to get him to change his mind, to no avail.

Tim Duncan is clearly not the kind of guy that would tell his coach to go **** himself.

And obviously telling them off to that extent is extreme but I'm sure if these guys really wanted to play, they would.

Jamiecballer
03-22-2017, 09:52 PM
"the masses" what are you a commie?
Out of curiosity, if I'd said "the majority" instead what would your lame attempt at misdirection have been?

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ewing
03-22-2017, 10:17 PM
Out of curiosity, if I'd said "the majority" instead what would your lame attempt at misdirection have been?

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

I probably would have called you out for calling me ignorant for drawing conclusions based on what Ive seen and experienced while you draw yours on assumed "science" but really are you a socialist?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vinylman
03-23-2017, 06:46 AM
Fine, I understand that, but none of it has anything to do with the questions I asked.

Do you (or anyone) have the actual numbers on rest days last year vs this year?

Why do you assume the rest is the players idea on average and not coach/training staff/front office?


those items do matter though because they spread the games out which increases rest...

but specifically to answer your question... the season started one day earlier... it ends one day later this year
and they added two more off days around the AS break ... so a net of 4 games

As for who is asking for more time off... it is clearly the players as it was a major issue in the CBA negotiations..

Owners would obviously rather have a much more condensed schedule especially when teams are on the road to minimize travel expenses

While I understand you are approaching this from a logical perspective (ie how can they revamp the schedule... add more rest days, etc...) in practice nothing will change as teams will still see fit to rest 3 guys in one night if they want... the only thing the league can do is fine them.

Scoots
03-23-2017, 08:26 AM
those items do matter though because they spread the games out which increases rest...

but specifically to answer your question... the season started one day earlier... it ends one day later this year
and they added two more off days around the AS break ... so a net of 4 games

As for who is asking for more time off... it is clearly the players as it was a major issue in the CBA negotiations..

Owners would obviously rather have a much more condensed schedule especially when teams are on the road to minimize travel expenses

While I understand you are approaching this from a logical perspective (ie how can they revamp the schedule... add more rest days, etc...) in practice nothing will change as teams will still see fit to rest 3 guys in one night if they want... the only thing the league can do is fine them.

Sorry, I was not clear. I meant the number of games players missed because of "rest" this year vs last. It seems to me the number is way down this year from last year but I don't have actual numbers.

I believe the players union wants to make the job as easy as possible with the highest pay as possible ... but that's true of every union. I was talking more about individual players requesting to rest for a game ... I think the majority of rest games are the result of coaches and training staffs telling the player to take a game off not the player (though I'm sure that happens too).

Sorry for the confusion, we were talking about different sides of the conversation there.

Vinylman
03-23-2017, 08:40 AM
Sorry, I was not clear. I meant the number of games players missed because of "rest" this year vs last. It seems to me the number is way down this year from last year but I don't have actual numbers.

I believe the players union wants to make the job as easy as possible with the highest pay as possible ... but that's true of every union. I was talking more about individual players requesting to rest for a game ... I think the majority of rest games are the result of coaches and training staffs telling the player to take a game off not the player (though I'm sure that happens too).

Sorry for the confusion, we were talking about different sides of the conversation there.

oh... I gotcha... I would assume it is down because of the B2B's being down and the 4s in 5s being way down...

I just want to be clear... I have zero problems with guys resting... teams can do whatever they want... however, I think it is bad for the NBA product and has longer term consequences when teams rest 3 guys in a key regular season showcase game...

the problem for the league is that there are so few games anymore that can draw national interest because of the lack of parity (super top heavy right now). I also don't like the optics of guys horsing around on the bench or just having a tough **** attitude in interviews...

Hawkeye15
03-23-2017, 09:39 AM
did LeBron really say he thinks this is all coming up because he rested? Did he sleep through the last decade of Pops?

kdspurman
03-23-2017, 10:39 AM
did LeBron really say he thinks this is all coming up because he rested? Did he sleep through the last decade of Pops?

I said the same thing haha. But it's not surprising he thinks it's about him... I guess he forgot that hefty fine we got too.

Hawkeye15
03-23-2017, 10:53 AM
I said the same thing haha. But it's not surprising he thinks it's about him... I guess he forgot that hefty fine we got too.

I remember going through boxscores on NBA.com 4-5 years ago, and the Spurs literally had the following:

Ginoboli- DNP-hamstring
Duncan- DNP- old

Vinylman
03-23-2017, 10:54 AM
did LeBron really say he thinks this is all coming up because he rested? Did he sleep through the last decade of Pops?

of course Mr self involved thinks its all about him...

Did you see Lebron's interview talking about Silver's letter to the owners and his comments about "owners"

Dude is a great basketball player but is ****ing ignorant as ****...

Hawkeye15
03-23-2017, 11:34 AM
of course Mr self involved thinks its all about him...

Did you see Lebron's interview talking about Silver's letter to the owners and his comments about "owners"

Dude is a great basketball player but is ****ing ignorant as ****.. .

Ignorant, and arrogant..

TheIlladelph16
03-23-2017, 01:55 PM
of course Mr self involved thinks its all about him...

Did you see Lebron's interview talking about Silver's letter to the owners and his comments about "owners"

Dude is a great basketball player but is ****ing ignorant as ****...

I certainly don't think this is all about Lebron. The Spurs have caught some **** for this over the years. All that said, I don't think his overall point is wrong. Sure there were people who make a fuss over the Spurs doing it, but like with all things involving Lebron, the issue has magnified exponentially since Lebron's being seeing more rest each season. Now you have even more teams utilizing the strategy (because it's a smart ****ing strategy) and it has gotten even more coverage.

Saddletramp
03-23-2017, 02:26 PM
He mentioned Pops has done it more than he has but after he sat against the Clippers (on national tv) Silver gives out the warning. If The Cavs didn't sit, this probably wouldn't be mentioned. If the Warriors didn't sit, this probably wouldn't be mentioned. If the Spurs never sat, this probably wouldn't be mentioned. All combined? That's what got to Silver.


Lebron just had to make it about him, though. Surprise, surprise.

SfgiantsJD3
03-23-2017, 03:02 PM
He mentioned Pops has done it more than he has but after he sat against the Clippers (on national tv) Silver gives out the warning. If The Cavs didn't sit, this probably wouldn't be mentioned. If the Warriors didn't sit, this probably wouldn't be mentioned. If the Spurs never sat, this probably wouldn't be mentioned. All combined? That's what got to Silver.


Lebron just had to make it about him, though. Surprise, surprise.

Silver doesn't say anything if ABC doesn't call and say we won't being paying prime dollars for scrub games, advertiser say they want a credit in the rate, we are going to pay the NBA less per game if the teams aren't there

Jamiecballer
03-23-2017, 03:25 PM
I probably would have called you out for calling me ignorant for drawing conclusions based on what Ive seen and experienced while you draw yours on assumed "science" but really are you a socialist?

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ok but here is the thing, you haven't seen or experienced anything in this context, unless you have been withholding from us that you actually work for a professional sports organization. sports has overgone a revolution of sorts in the past 5-10 years with regards to analyzing performance factors, both on and off the field. why would we discard that knowledge and just assume the player doesn't want to play. these are world class athletes, i don't buy that they just don't love to compete like they used to, particularly in light of the fact that it's not even the athletes who are making these decisions.

Saddletramp
03-23-2017, 03:51 PM
Silver doesn't say anything if ABC doesn't call and say we won't being paying prime dollars for scrub games, advertiser say they want a credit in the rate, we are going to pay the NBA less per game if the teams aren't there

Of course. It's not about the fans unless the money starts to wane. Then it's a problem. Business 101.

ewing
03-23-2017, 05:36 PM
ok but here is the thing, you haven't seen or experienced anything in this context, unless you have been withholding from us that you actually work for a professional sports organization. sports has overgone a revolution of sorts in the past 5-10 years with regards to analyzing performance factors, both on and off the field. why would we discard that knowledge and just assume the player doesn't want to play. these are world class athletes, i don't buy that they just don't love to compete like they used to, particularly in light of the fact that it's not even the athletes who are making these decisions.


again your the one stating a revolution has happened with out and concrete backing. I don't work for a professional sports team but I've been athlete my whole life and played this game up to the college level. is this what you think is happening?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6K3IvJzJRg

I don't. I think there have been some changes in our culture and the power relationships within pro basketball that make it easier for coaches and players to make this decision. I don't its good for the game and i think its a selfish and ungrateful way for players/teams to act. IMO the league and the game should come first.

More-Than-Most
03-23-2017, 05:51 PM
Ignorant, and arrogant..

arrogant is an understatement... but do you think he is any less arrogant than a kobe/shaq/jordan etc? its the times we live in... I wish we could have gotten prime jordan in the social media age... he would have been known as a racist/ignorant/cocky/biggest piece of **** in life lol.

Jamiecballer
03-23-2017, 06:31 PM
again your the one stating a revolution has happened with out and concrete backing. I don't work for a professional sports team but I've been athlete my whole life and played this game up to the college level. is this what you think is happening?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6K3IvJzJRg

I don't. I think there have been some changes in our culture and the power relationships within pro basketball that make it easier for coaches and players to make this decision. I don't its good for the game and i think its a selfish and ungrateful way for players/teams to act. IMO the league and the game should come first.
I'm not wasting a half hour of my life collecting links to stories detailing how professional sports organizations are outfitting their front office and coaching staffs in an effort look at player health in a more holistic way in an effort to extract performance gains - they are everywhere. The most recent one that comes to mind involves the red Sox outfitting their clubhouse with a room that's entire purpose is for players to have naps.

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ewing
03-23-2017, 06:52 PM
I'm not wasting a half hour of my life collecting links to stories detailing how professional sports organizations are outfitting their front office and coaching staffs in an effort look at player health in a more holistic way in an effort to extract performance gains - they are everywhere. The most recent one that comes to mind involves the red Sox outfitting their clubhouse with a room that's entire purpose is for players to have naps.

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yeah and they fly on first class jets instead of take buses as well. Getting rest has always been important for growth. Why do you think guys come out of jail jacked. If you don't do anything but sleep and lift you get jacked. you're revolution is BS. Everyone has always known this stuff, these teams/players think they are justified taking games off that prior generations wouldn't have dreamed of taking off b/c they can now get away with it. In prior eras everyone would have rightfully called them disrespectful self-indulgent *******. You get paid a king's ransom to play basketball not to chase your legacy. The lights are on, stop being a ***** and go play the game.

Scoots
03-24-2017, 10:24 AM
yeah and they fly on first class jets instead of take buses as well. Getting rest has always been important for growth. Why do you think guys come out of jail jacked. If you don't do anything but sleep and lift you get jacked. you're revolution is BS. Everyone has always known this stuff, these teams/players think they are justified taking games off that prior generations wouldn't have dreamed of taking off b/c they can now get away with it. In prior eras everyone would have rightfully called them disrespectful self-indulgent *******. You get paid a king's ransom to play basketball not to chase your legacy. The lights are on, stop being a ***** and go play the game.

So, you train for 6 months for a task and you max out at 100 reps and you can do it every day once a day, then you bring in a trainer and after another 6 months he's got you up to 150 but now when you try it the next day you can only do 125, then you bring in a nutritionist and a masseuse and a hyperbaric chamber and add an hour in prep before you do the task and an hour after the task in recovery and you get it back up to 150 every day. You maintain that level for 4 years then one day, despite doing everything the same you can only reach 140, then the next day 130, then 120, then 95, then 90. From the outside it looks nearly identical but you just can't reach close to 150 anymore. Then you get a day off and the next day you are back up to 140, and the next day back at 150 and are able to stay at 150 for a month. Then you slip to 135 one day, you rest the next day and are back up to 150 for the next month. The next time it slips below 150 your solution is just to keep going and watching your performance fade rather than rest?

It's a game, and in the regular season the games mean very little to the major of winning a title.

By the way, in the above made up scenario the previous generations just stopped at 100 reps because they didn't know how to get it to 150.

europagnpilgrim
03-24-2017, 10:52 AM
so? All teams will do is analyze the schedule when it first comes out, and decide when to rest players. Easy to make adjustments a few days out to compensate for injuries, etc.

Teams want to be able to rest players. It can't be stopped. Sorry to shake my stick at this, but each generation gets softer, why would sports be any different?


no doubt about it, the feminization of the alpha male is in full commercialized effect, soft is a understatement, you are being kind

ewing
03-24-2017, 12:16 PM
So, you train for 6 months for a task and you max out at 100 reps and you can do it every day once a day, then you bring in a trainer and after another 6 months he's got you up to 150 but now when you try it the next day you can only do 125, then you bring in a nutritionist and a masseuse and a hyperbaric chamber and add an hour in prep before you do the task and an hour after the task in recovery and you get it back up to 150 every day. You maintain that level for 4 years then one day, despite doing everything the same you can only reach 140, then the next day 130, then 120, then 95, then 90. From the outside it looks nearly identical but you just can't reach close to 150 anymore. Then you get a day off and the next day you are back up to 140, and the next day back at 150 and are able to stay at 150 for a month. Then you slip to 135 one day, you rest the next day and are back up to 150 for the next month. The next time it slips below 150 your solution is just to keep going and watching your performance fade rather than rest?

It's a game, and in the regular season the games mean very little to the major of winning a title.

By the way, in the above made up scenario the previous generations just stopped at 100 reps because they didn't know how to get it to 150.

I don't think Jordan, Shaq, and the like were 50% worse performance wise and would be physically dominated by these guys. What makes you think those guys could only get to 100? Honestly sounds like you are making stuff up to fit your narrative (who does 150 reps of anything?? Who not only platues but loses a massive % of there max with no change in training???) why do you guys pretend you know what your talking about?


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Jamiecballer
03-24-2017, 02:25 PM
did LeBron really say he thinks this is all coming up because he rested? Did he sleep through the last decade of Pops?

Not meaning to derail the thread here but don't you think to him it's like "hey, this has been going on for a decade or more, just look at the spurs, and now I do it and the league is sending memos about?". I think your bias against Lebron as a man is definitely showing.

Vee-Rex
03-24-2017, 02:38 PM
It was an enormous story when LeBron rested in 2014-15. It was an enormous story when LeBron rested in 2015-16. It was an enormous story when LeBron rested against the Grizzlies on December 14th, 2016 (despite no one saying anything about Marc Gasol resting on December 13th, the day before).

Silver sends out a memo when LeBron rests against the Clippers on ABC (Irving had knee tightness, Love banned from b2bs since he's just recovered from knee surgery).

LeBron is wrong - it's not all about him. Other teams get heat for it too. But from his perspective, it does seem that his decisions get more backlash than others, and he's definitely crucified when he rests - every single time. I can understand his perspective on that.

kdspurman
03-24-2017, 04:39 PM
Not meaning to derail the thread here but don't you think to him it's like "hey, this has been going on for a decade or more, just look at the spurs, and now I do it and the league is sending memos about?". I think your bias against Lebron as a man is definitely showing.

The Spurs were fined for doing this, without a memo/warning. It's not all about him lol

Lebron has been resting anyway, that didn't start this season.

Jamiecballer
03-24-2017, 04:54 PM
perhaps not, but i can certainly see why he might view it that way.

Firefistus
03-24-2017, 04:58 PM
I don't think Jordan, Shaq, and the like were 50% worse performance wise and would be physically dominated by these guys. What makes you think those guys could only get to 100? Honestly sounds like you are making stuff up to fit your narrative (who does 150 reps of anything?? Who not only platues but loses a massive % of there max with no change in training???) why do you guys pretend you know what your talking about?


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You're high as a kite, Shaq was 7' 1" and 350 pounds, we don't have a player that big in the NBA. Can you name a player that's even 300 pounds? Most centers and PF's are close to 280 at the most. Shaq was 70 pounds over that. Sorry, but no one, even now nobody would dominate Shaq physically.

I'm not going to argue others as it's highly debatable, but there's no debate over an average of 70 pounds.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2017, 05:05 PM
Not meaning to derail the thread here but don't you think to him it's like "hey, this has been going on for a decade or more, just look at the spurs, and now I do it and the league is sending memos about?". I think your bias against Lebron as a man is definitely showing.

I can only judge his words dude. Hey, I am a big LeBron fan, but I think he sucks as speaking. Constantly comes off as a victim.

tredigs
03-24-2017, 05:34 PM
You're high as a kite, Shaq was 7' 1" and 350 pounds, we don't have a player that big in the NBA. Can you name a player that's even 300 pounds? Most centers and PF's are close to 280 at the most. Shaq was 70 pounds over that. Sorry, but no one, even now nobody would dominate Shaq physically.

I'm not going to argue others as it's highly debatable, but there's no debate over an average of 70 pounds.

Lol Shaq was nowhere close to the player he was at 350+ pounds that he was as his younger, leaner self. He was about 100lbs less to begin his career than he was closing it. His prime weight was around 295-315, and his most explosive self was the 280 range.

Scoots
03-24-2017, 05:57 PM
I don't think Jordan, Shaq, and the like were 50% worse performance wise and would be physically dominated by these guys. What makes you think those guys could only get to 100? Honestly sounds like you are making stuff up to fit your narrative (who does 150 reps of anything?? Who not only platues but loses a massive % of there max with no change in training???) why do you guys pretend you know what your talking about?

The point wasn't the relative improvement, I was just using nice round numbers and I used YOU as the subject not an NBA player. The point is that as you push your body closer to it's limits the likelihood of breakdowns go up and the more maintenance it takes to keep it there. The same is true of all machines ... as you push performance reliability goes down and maintenance goes up.

Firefistus
03-24-2017, 08:29 PM
Lol Shaq was nowhere close to the player he was at 350+ pounds that he was as his younger, leaner self. He was about 100lbs less to begin his career than he was closing it. His prime weight was around 295-315, and his most explosive self was the 280 range.

Sorry, not sorry, you're just wrong, but you can find links everywhere talking about his weight as a Laker. Here's one.

http://heightline.com/shaquille-oneal-height-weight-and-body-measurements/


However, when Shaq left for LA Lakers in 1996, he gradually began growing out of shape. Fast-forward to 2004 and the once toned Shaq had added almost 100 pounds to weigh around 370 lbs. It turns out Shaq was intentionally trying to increase his weight to improve his stamina and extend his superior play as he was tired of getting pushed around the post in the off-season right after the Lakers won the championships. To achieve this, Shaq added more meat and potatoes to his meals and the fats began to accumulate, though he achieved his aim at first, the long-term aftereffects were unexpected. Shaq was doing little or nothing to help the situation as he continued to pay more dedicated visits to burger restaurants than he did to the fitness gyms. He was later traded to the Miami Heats where he worked hard to drop some pounds so he could get his game going. The weight notwithstanding, Shaq still had an above average basketball career that spanned almost two decades- his numerous accolades is a prove of that, not to mention his net worth of $350 million. However, some speculate Shaq would’ve achieved more than he did had he religiously kept his weight in check.


Here's another

http://www.stack.com/a/remember-when-shaq-was-ripped-and-super-athletic-heres-how-he-put-on-so-much-weight

But Shaq left Orlando for the Los Angeles Lakers in 1996, and his body began to change. It was slow at first, a gradual increase in the size of his shoulders and arms. But by the time the Lakers had won their first NBA championship with Shaq at the end of the 1999-2000 season, Shaq barely resembled the trim, supremely athletic center he was once. By 2002, he weighed 341 pounds. By the 2003-2004 NBA season, Shaq had expanded outward like a helium balloon, with his weight at one point reaching a whopping 370 pounds.

I know people don't like to believe what other people say anymore, especially in Warrior country, but Shaqfu was real, and no one has ever been that large in the NBA since.

Jamiecballer
03-24-2017, 08:33 PM
I can only judge his words dude. Hey, I am a big LeBron fan, but I think he sucks as speaking. Constantly comes off as a victim.
That doesn't change the fact that what you said made zero sense whatsoever unless you have a strong dislike for his personality to begin with that's all I'm saying

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Scoots
03-24-2017, 10:05 PM
I can only judge his words dude. Hey, I am a big LeBron fan, but I think he sucks as speaking. Constantly comes off as a victim.

I think he's an incredible player and thinker of the game, but his passive aggressive BS is pretty horrid.

TrueFan420
03-31-2017, 12:03 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19037385/kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors-says-resting-flap-targets-couple-players

Can't say he's wrong.

ewing
03-31-2017, 12:07 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19037385/kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors-says-resting-flap-targets-couple-players

Can't say he's wrong.

he is right guys like LeBron, himself, Curry etc have different responsibilities then Mindaugus Kuzminskas :shrug:

tredigs
03-31-2017, 12:36 AM
Sorry, not sorry, you're just wrong, but you can find links everywhere talking about his weight as a Laker. Here's one.

http://heightline.com/shaquille-oneal-height-weight-and-body-measurements/


However, when Shaq left for LA Lakers in 1996, he gradually began growing out of shape. Fast-forward to 2004 and the once toned Shaq had added almost 100 pounds to weigh around 370 lbs. It turns out Shaq was intentionally trying to increase his weight to improve his stamina and extend his superior play as he was tired of getting pushed around the post in the off-season right after the Lakers won the championships. To achieve this, Shaq added more meat and potatoes to his meals and the fats began to accumulate, though he achieved his aim at first, the long-term aftereffects were unexpected. Shaq was doing little or nothing to help the situation as he continued to pay more dedicated visits to burger restaurants than he did to the fitness gyms. He was later traded to the Miami Heats where he worked hard to drop some pounds so he could get his game going. The weight notwithstanding, Shaq still had an above average basketball career that spanned almost two decades- his numerous accolades is a prove of that, not to mention his net worth of $350 million. However, some speculate Shaq would’ve achieved more than he did had he religiously kept his weight in check.


Here's another

http://www.stack.com/a/remember-when-shaq-was-ripped-and-super-athletic-heres-how-he-put-on-so-much-weight

But Shaq left Orlando for the Los Angeles Lakers in 1996, and his body began to change. It was slow at first, a gradual increase in the size of his shoulders and arms. But by the time the Lakers had won their first NBA championship with Shaq at the end of the 1999-2000 season, Shaq barely resembled the trim, supremely athletic center he was once. By 2002, he weighed 341 pounds. By the 2003-2004 NBA season, Shaq had expanded outward like a helium balloon, with his weight at one point reaching a whopping 370 pounds.

I know people don't like to believe what other people say anymore, especially in Warrior country, but Shaqfu was real, and no one has ever been that large in the NBA since.

Do you have any idea what you're trying to argue, because your link just made my point. It states that he was 230lbs when entering the league, and balooned out of shape to the 350+ range upon his departure in LA in '04. Once again, at his peak play (skill + mindstate + size/speed, he was closer to 300 lbs), and his most explosive self (as a player for the Magic), 25-40 lbs less than that.

Young Shaq: http://marsreel.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/shaq-rookie.jpg

Lakers Shaq after gaining some weight (though not close to his fattest self): http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef01538ebe43ec970b-640wi

He was at his most dominant about 3 years prior to the Lakers photo above (which is '04 I believe), which was a combo of his size and smarts coming together. As a pure athlete though, the '04 Lakers version above (his 330lb+ days) was not close to the physical dominance of 97-2001 when he was still well under 350 lbs.