PDA

View Full Version : JVG on resting player: "Fans told they don't matter": Yay or nay?



JasonJohnHorn
03-13-2017, 02:10 PM
Jeff VanGundy says that by resting players, teams are telling fans they don't matter.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2017/03/11/jeff-van-gundy-nba-stars-resting-fans-told-you-dont-matter/99078958/


As frustrating as this is for fans who got tickets to the games, I understand that this is for the best of all parties involved.

1. You need to consider health and safety. If players are putting too much strain on themselves, it could lead to injury. Saying "you have to play them" could also turn into "you have to play them for X number of minutes". Do we really want to get into that?

2. Winning is what the fans want to see, specifically that 16th win in the playoffs. Keeping the above comment in mind, it is important for teams to have a healthy roster enter the playoffs. We have seen in any number of instances, that the healthiest team wins, not necessarily the best one. Cavs beat the Warriors without Bogut. Warriors beat the Cavs without Love and Kyrie. Ect, ect, ect.


Fans want to see their teams win, so keeping the players healthy is in the fans' best interest.

It also happens to be in the players' best interest, because everybody want to work in a healthy environment, and it doesn't matter if you are paying to watch somebody do something, you have no right to expect them to engage in an activity that might cause them bodily harm.


I understand where JVG's frustration is coming from, but I think it is misplaced here.


Thoughts? You for this or against it?

ewing
03-13-2017, 02:15 PM
the league sucks until the 2nd round of the playoffs anyway. maybe they shouldn't even have a regular season.

tredigs
03-13-2017, 02:35 PM
Are we told they DO matter every other game they do play? Lol. 2nd game Curry has missed this season (as a team they have 5 combined sits among all players), and the media/fans go ape-**** over it.

lakerfan85
03-13-2017, 02:36 PM
Maybe they should offer a refund of half of what the fans paid if you only get to see half of the finished product..

TheDish87
03-13-2017, 03:10 PM
resting guys is fine to an extent but when you rest your whole ****ing starting 5 youre giving the fans a giant middle finger. Rest em vs the ****** teams, it was inexcusable for GSW to bench those guys in a meaningful game like that the other night.

kdspurman
03-13-2017, 03:37 PM
resting guys is fine to an extent but when you rest your whole ****ing starting 5 youre giving the fans a giant middle finger. Rest em vs the ****** teams, it was inexcusable for GSW to bench those guys in a meaningful game like that the other night.

It wasn't inexcusable, their schedule made it very justifiable. I do think something extra should be done for the fans though, but it's tough to figure out what.

The simplest thing is to figure out the scheduling so teams aren't put in that position in the first place.

ewing
03-13-2017, 03:40 PM
It wasn't inexcusable, their schedule made it very justifiable. I do think something extra should be done for the fans though, but it's tough to figure out what.

The simplest thing is to figure out the scheduling so teams aren't put in that position in the first place.

no it was inexcusable. the could have rested players in any of the games leading up to the Spurs and in any game after. If they want to ***** about the schedule they can but throwing a national TV game on Sat afternoon against another elite team is totally inexcusable. It was a BS we're bigger then the game move when the Spurs did it and it is now with the Warriors doing it.

TheDish87
03-13-2017, 03:50 PM
It wasn't inexcusable, their schedule made it very justifiable. I do think something extra should be done for the fans though, but it's tough to figure out what.

The simplest thing is to figure out the scheduling so teams aren't put in that position in the first place.

they shouldnt need 4 days of rest, it was ridiculous. im gonna enjoy it when they dont get the 1 seed.

kdspurman
03-13-2017, 03:54 PM
no it was inexcusable. the could have rested players in any of the games leading up to the Spurs and in any game after. If they want to ***** about the schedule they can but throwing a national TV game on Sat afternoon against another elite team is totally inexcusable. It was a BS we're bigger then the game move when the Spurs did it and it is now with the Warriors doing it.

It wasn't afternoon, it was the evening (not that it matters, afternoon would've been even worse)

The coach can choose when he wants to, it's his right. By doing it Saturday, they are getting like 4 straight days off. If he did it against the Nets when it wasn't nationally televised, would people be this upset? Probably not... Are some fans more important than others?

I'll also say, having watched Pop, I've seen him play his guys against a conference rival once, then sit his guys the next couple match ups, just thinking strategically in the event there is playoff match up. Doesn't want to give away any sort of advantages or allow the other team to have much film from their reg season match ups.

These coaches jobs/goals are to win a championship, and put their players in the best position to succeed

Vee-Rex
03-13-2017, 03:58 PM
JVG is very short-sighted.

So the Warriors want to rest players in an effort to conserve some energy to win a trophy for... THEIR FANS (gasp).

They want to be at their best, and when they're at their best, they are more entertaining. Everyone wants to see fully healthy teams in the playoffs.

SteBO
03-13-2017, 04:05 PM
When the NBA decides to fix their scheduling, then Pop and Kerr won't feel the need to rest guys as "frequently", and I use that term loosely. The 82 game schedule is simply a tool to feed league greed anyhow, and it isn't fair to the players who are exerting their energies to entertain, so as a coach who's put in a situation to manage his/her players', he/she should do what they feel is right and Pop/Kerr/Ty Lue have done that.

SteBO
03-13-2017, 04:07 PM
I do feel for the fans though, and if there's a way to help ease fan frustration then the league oughta go through with it. Simply put though, this is more so a league issue......not a fan issue.

aman_13
03-13-2017, 04:13 PM
JVG is very short-sighted.

So the Warriors want to rest players in an effort to conserve some energy to win a trophy for... THEIR FANS (gasp).

They want to be at their best, and when they're at their best, they are more entertaining. Everyone wants to see fully healthy teams in the playoffs.

I hear ya but when fans buy tickets for marquee games like this, that are likely higher in price than the average game, I doubt they care for the long term picture that night.

I don't have a problem with teams resting players but at the end of the day, the NBA is a business first.

Scoots
03-13-2017, 04:20 PM
There are no guarantees on any entertainment ticket other than the show will go on or your money back. The quality of the show is most assuredly NOT part of the agreement.

aman_13
03-13-2017, 04:21 PM
Now an argument can be made that teams are implicitly protecting the business aspect by keeping players fresh as possible, to avoid injuries when the ratings really matter, so I get both sides of the argument.

I agree that in the end, the NBA has to figure out how to keep the players from burning out if they dislike players sitting out.

My Raptors went through a ridiculously difficult schedule like the one the Warriors are facing in December and looked as if they hit in a wall in January after returning from the trip. They went through a number of injuries and lead to a rough 16 game stretch that has put them in the position they are now.

aman_13
03-13-2017, 04:25 PM
There are no guarantees on any entertainment ticket other than the show will go on or your money back. The quality of the show is most assuredly NOT part of the agreement.

It's definitely not, because neither side has full control on that. However, the schedule makers did not put that game on ABC randomly.

TrueFan420
03-13-2017, 04:40 PM
I hear ya but when fans buy tickets for marquee games like this, that are likely higher in price than the average game, I doubt they care for the long term picture that night.

I don't have a problem with teams resting players but at the end of the day, the NBA is a business first.

As a business the NBA should put more thought into their scheduling.

aman_13
03-13-2017, 04:42 PM
As a business the NBA should put more thought into their scheduling.

I agree, it's not all on the players. This is a collective issue.

mike_noodles
03-13-2017, 05:26 PM
I'll say it again, if the players need more rest, keep the schedule length the same, but cut out 6 games and cut 1 mandatory practice per month. 2 extra days of full rest every month. No longer need to sit players to rest them.

More-Than-Most
03-13-2017, 05:30 PM
It was a tank move... Not even kidding either. What I mean by that is they could have easily played curry and rested the other 3 and then rested curry the next night and likely would have had they had a healthy durant... The spurs are the spurs even shorthanded so why risk it if your the warriors? Why Risk a potential loss using some of your guys and then losing the next game as well if you rest other players... They figured losing the spurs game could have happened anyway so lets rest our guys and take the loss so we win the games after instead of playing our guys and losing the spurs game while resting our guys the next game and losing another game.

More-Than-Most
03-13-2017, 05:31 PM
I'll say it again, if the players need more rest, keep the schedule length the same, but cut out 6 games and cut 1 mandatory practice per month. 2 extra days of full rest every month. No longer need to sit players to rest them.

it wont matter... they could play 40 games a year and this will still happen.

flea
03-13-2017, 05:34 PM
He's right, the fans don't matter. Competition doesn't matter. The NBA hasn't been a competitive league ever really (one conference or the other is competitive for a few years maybe 2 or 3 seasons every 10 years but that's it). The NBA is about the star players's buddies and their legacies.

We're all supposed to be grateful to witness things like the horrible display of...I don't even know what you call that game last night between the Rockets and Cavs. Just a bunch of guys chucking 27 foot J's because they think we'll be fooled into believing they're better than Kevin McHale, Charles Barkley, or Patrick Ewing just because they shot 3s and made layups.

More-Than-Most
03-13-2017, 05:35 PM
I honestly dont understand people... Its a sport... A competitve game that is just as much mental as physical but somehow we expect our teams to not use the mental part of it which is ********... Example... a 4 seed losing on purpose to try and matchup with another team if the team is weaker because not all top teams are extremely stronger.... this would be frowned upon... Can suck my dick honestly... Its not about the regular season... Not when your a championship contender... It isnt and wont ever be and that is smart.

More-Than-Most
03-13-2017, 05:36 PM
He's right, the fans don't matter. Competition doesn't matter. The NBA hasn't been a competitive league ever really (one conference or the other is competitive for a few years maybe 2 or 3 seasons every 10 years but that's it). The NBA is about the star players's buddies and their legacies.

We're all supposed to be grateful to witness things like the horrible display of...I don't even know what you call that game last night between the Rockets and Cavs. Just a bunch of guys chucking 27 foot J's because they think we'll be fooled into believing they're better than Kevin McHale, Charles Barkley, or Patrick Ewing just because they shot 3s and made layups.

oh jesus christ cry me a river the league was better blah blah blah wah wah wah... 3s are terrible for basketbal and 900 other excuses that have no merit... what is the league suppose to do not evolve?

More-Than-Most
03-13-2017, 05:38 PM
You know whats funny to me? These same asshats complaining in the media about this or these fans of basketball complaining about this are the first to whine and moan and throw players under the bus for choking if they played every game and stunk it up in the playoffs because of being tired or hurt... Its moronic.

flea
03-13-2017, 05:41 PM
oh jesus christ cry me a river the league was better blah blah blah wah wah wah... 3s are terrible for basketbal and 900 other excuses that have no merit... what is the league suppose to do not evolve?

I saw the Harlem Globetrotters make halfcourt stepback shots half the night when I was 7 and I loved it. Then I learned about real basketball. You might have been able to fool me when I was 7 but not anymore.

mike_noodles
03-13-2017, 05:44 PM
Imagine if NBA players had to play baseball, you know where they actually play every day and have a hectic travel schedule. There wouldn't even be a league.

More-Than-Most
03-13-2017, 05:45 PM
I saw the Harlem Globetrotters make halfcourt stepback shots half the night when I was 7 and I loved it. Then I learned about real basketball. You might have been able to fool me when I was 7 but not anymore.

http://www.school-for-champions.com/sports/basketball_players_who_caused_rule_changes.htm#.WM cSzG_yt9M

Should we go back to all of these rules and really get back to old school basketball HOW THE GAME WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED? lol jesus christ.

More-Than-Most
03-13-2017, 05:47 PM
Imagine if NBA players had to play baseball, you know where they actually play every day and have a hectic travel schedule. There wouldn't even be a league.

0 logic at all right here... Imagine if baseball players had to play 90 percent of a game and constantly run up and down the court while banging bodies left and right with 260 pound freaks of nature night in and night out instead of resting every other half inning during games etc etc etc... Not undervaluing baseball players here either... comparing 2 sports and expecting the same thing while trying to make an argument without looking silly is just laughable.

Vee-Rex
03-13-2017, 05:59 PM
MTM laying down the hammer.

:cheer:

Rivera
03-13-2017, 06:08 PM
I have one idea. And I don't know if this idea was posted yet because I didn't read through the entire thread

But what about making national TV games mandatory?

More-Than-Most
03-13-2017, 06:22 PM
I have one idea. And I don't know if this idea was posted yet because I didn't read through the entire thread

But what about making national TV games mandatory?

They would still skirt the rules.... Can just say lebron has the *****/stomach flu... Cant really disprove it.

kdspurman
03-13-2017, 06:24 PM
I like JVG, I appreciate his honesty when he's commentating.

I do wonder if he were a coach on a team with title aspirations, and his team was looking gassed during a tough schedule, would he just ride it out for the fans?

ewing
03-13-2017, 06:27 PM
It's was a BS move. It was something for Kerr and a Pop to get a laugh at which is fine but it came at the expanse of the fans and the quality of the NBA regular season


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JasonJohnHorn
03-13-2017, 06:39 PM
resting guys is fine to an extent but when you rest your whole ****ing starting 5 youre giving the fans a giant middle finger. Rest em vs the ****** teams, it was inexcusable for GSW to bench those guys in a meaningful game like that the other night.

Part of me agrees with the first part: why rest ALL the starters. But.... ALL the starters played the night before, so they are all in the same predicament, and they are all central to the team's success.

What I see happening, and this is what Cuban has spoken about and some guys from the players union, is extending the season a couple of weeks and shortening the pre-season or something so it eliminates the need for back-to-backs and players have time to rest.

I realize they are playing a children's game, but they are putting their bodies through immense stress, and throwing a long-@$$ flight or bus ride on it when they have back-to-backs on the road? WTF?

If a team has back-to-backs at home, that's not so big a problem because they don't have to travel and can get rest, but back-to-backs on the road seem out of line to me.

Also... even without extending the season, this kind of thing isn't necessary. I mean, there are times when teams have 3 days off in a row, and often two.

In my mind, the pressure here is on the league. They made the schedule. I know it's tough to do, but don't put two teams you know will be competing for a top spot against each other on the second night of back-to-backs and not expect them to rest their guys.

But yes... they could have rest a couple of starters the night before, and a couple more that night. However, that could have cost them two games instead of one (though I do believe the lost both anyways).

JasonJohnHorn
03-13-2017, 06:42 PM
They would still skirt the rules.... Can just say lebron has the *****/stomach flu... Cant really disprove it.

The other thing is they might say "They have to play" so you play them one minute and pull them. What do you say then? "You have to play them at least 30 minutes." Then the coaches are going to complain that the league is setting their rotations for them.

It's a tough line to draw.

JasonJohnHorn
03-13-2017, 06:48 PM
It's definitely not, because neither side has full control on that. However, the schedule makers did not put that game on ABC randomly.

Bu the schedule makers did give the Warriors a back-to-back on the road against and elite team deep into the season and knew it would be televised and knew that either or both team ight rest players in that situation.

This has been an issue for a few years now: the LEAGUE needs to do something about the way they schedule games.

JasonJohnHorn
03-13-2017, 06:50 PM
Imagine if NBA players had to play baseball, you know where they actually play every day and have a hectic travel schedule. There wouldn't even be a league.

Can you imagine if baseball players didn't spent 95% of each game sitting in a dug out, and the ones that did do more (pitchers) didn't get several days off in between each game? WOW!!

Imagine some of the guys featured in the link below trying to run up and down the court for 30+ minutes a night over the course of several months:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=fat+baseball+players&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiz5ICQyNTSAhVE1oMKHUv8AMMQsAQIHg&biw=1600&bih=794#imgrc=agM21uM54rhcVM:

mike_noodles
03-13-2017, 07:20 PM
0 logic at all right here... Imagine if baseball players had to play 90 percent of a game and constantly run up and down the court while banging bodies left and right with 260 pound freaks of nature night in and night out instead of resting every other half inning during games etc etc etc... Not undervaluing baseball players here either... comparing 2 sports and expecting the same thing while trying to make an argument without looking silly is just laughable.

Sarcasm

Your head

More-Than-Most
03-13-2017, 08:05 PM
Sarcasm

Your head

lol how could i get sarcasm from that post though? Reread it :shrug:

SfgiantsJD3
03-13-2017, 08:15 PM
Bu the schedule makers did give the Warriors a back-to-back on the road against and elite team deep into the season and knew it would be televised and knew that either or both team ight rest players in that situation.

This has been an issue for a few years now: the LEAGUE needs to do something about the way they schedule games.

It sucks for the fans but 10 games in 15 days with 3 b2b road/road and about 14-15000 miles of flight and about 14 hours of time changes so 10 games in 14.4 days if their body clocks were normal, yeah there was home game where they flew from Atlanta to Oakland played and then flew to Minnesota. That's crappy scheduling. Last season the warriors flew 72,000 miles during the regular season and Cleveland flew 47.8 k miles

This year the Warriors are flying 54,436 miles

Scoots
03-13-2017, 08:41 PM
It's definitely not, because neither side has full control on that. However, the schedule makers did not put that game on ABC randomly.

And ABC and the NBA knew at the time that something could happen to make the game less appealing which is why they try to set up alternate games later in the season.

I wonder if people would prefer Kerr to pull each of the players out of the previous game and send them to the locker room and say they are flat out injured and are day to day. I think the NBA would prefer what he did over making up injuries.

Jamiecballer
03-13-2017, 11:58 PM
The paying fan is put last no doubt about it

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

aman_13
03-14-2017, 12:28 AM
And ABC and the NBA knew at the time that something could happen to make the game less appealing which is why they try to set up alternate games later in the season.

I wonder if people would prefer Kerr to pull each of the players out of the previous game and send them to the locker room and say they are flat out injured and are day to day. I think the NBA would prefer what he did over making up injuries.

I'm sure they have that in mind but marquee players missing is a worst case scenario for national tv networks. They spend a lot of money for those games. The NBA and tv networks such as ABC expect the players to play.

Again, I don't blame Kerr for resting his players. The NBA needs to do a better job with spacing out the schedule. Hopefully we see change in the off season.

lol, please
03-14-2017, 12:31 AM
Jeff VanGundy says that by resting players, teams are telling fans they don't matter.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2017/03/11/jeff-van-gundy-nba-stars-resting-fans-told-you-dont-matter/99078958/


As frustrating as this is for fans who got tickets to the games, I understand that this is for the best of all parties involved.

1. You need to consider health and safety. If players are putting too much strain on themselves, it could lead to injury. Saying "you have to play them" could also turn into "you have to play them for X number of minutes". Do we really want to get into that?

2. Winning is what the fans want to see, specifically that 16th win in the playoffs. Keeping the above comment in mind, it is important for teams to have a healthy roster enter the playoffs. We have seen in any number of instances, that the healthiest team wins, not necessarily the best one. Cavs beat the Warriors without Bogut. Warriors beat the Cavs without Love and Kyrie. Ect, ect, ect.


Fans want to see their teams win, so keeping the players healthy is in the fans' best interest.

It also happens to be in the players' best interest, because everybody want to work in a healthy environment, and it doesn't matter if you are paying to watch somebody do something, you have no right to expect them to engage in an activity that might cause them bodily harm.


I understand where JVG's frustration is coming from, but I think it is misplaced here.


Thoughts? You for this or against it?

Personally i'm exhausted with this topic as I have listened to this crap debate ad nauseum all week on the radio.

As a fan, I don't really care, honestly. The bigger picture matters to me more than the day-to-day one, and if you get upset because you didn't pay attention to the fact that star players aren't going to be active for a game you paid tickets for, and/or if you couldn't sell them off in time, that's your problem.

I take the same stance here as I do when it comes with dealing with social justice warriors and betas - if you are offended, it's your problem, not mine/the "offenders". Don't try and force me to make adjustments to who I am as a person, adjust the panties under your pants first. Grow a pair. You want to be an adult when it comes time to order beers, or have secks, but when it comes to sacking up and being mature and tough skinned, you want to be a child about it? Pathetic.

Making this into a bigger deal than it needs to be is pathetic as well, it's incredible people are still talking about players missing a random regular season game when so much else, even more significant non-stories are going on.

Jeffy25
03-14-2017, 01:09 AM
the league sucks until the 2nd round of the playoffs anyway. maybe they shouldn't even have a regular season.

Or just remove the first round of the playoffs and just make it a top 4 seeds make it

Or, each division winner and a wild card team

ewing
03-14-2017, 01:40 AM
Personally i'm exhausted with this topic as I have listened to this crap debate ad nauseum all week on the radio.

As a fan, I don't really care, honestly. The bigger picture matters to me more than the day-to-day one, and if you get upset because you didn't pay attention to the fact that star players aren't going to be active for a game you paid tickets for, and/or if you couldn't sell them off in time, that's your problem.

I take the same stance here as I do when it comes with dealing with social justice warriors and betas - if you are offended, it's your problem, not mine/the "offenders". Don't try and force me to make adjustments to who I am as a person, adjust the panties under your pants first. Grow a pair. You want to be an adult when it comes time to order beers, or have secks, but when it comes to sacking up and being mature and tough skinned, you want to be a child about it? Pathetic.

Making this into a bigger deal than it needs to be is pathetic as well, it's incredible people are still talking about players missing a random regular season game when so much else, even more significant non-stories are going on.


It wasn't a random regular season game. It was a HA-HA moment for Kerr. He pulled a Pop on Pop.

ewing
03-14-2017, 01:48 AM
Or just remove the first round of the playoffs and just make it a top 4 seeds make it

Or, each division winner and a wild card team

why would that matter? these two team are fighting for the one spot. All the ring chasing, teaming up, and straight pussification of the league has made the regular season meaningless. maybe it was meaningless before but i don't care. I want watch two teams that don't like each other and known they might meet in the playoffs care about winning or losing to the other. the spurs and warriors should care. I'm pretty sure Duke cared about beating ND the other night playing there 4th game in 4 nights and it doesn't change anything if losers will chalk up their season as a failure if they don't make the elite 8. you play the games.

ewing
03-14-2017, 01:53 AM
you damn millennials just don't respect the code

ewing
03-14-2017, 01:54 AM
you play to win to the game!

Saddletramp
03-14-2017, 05:16 AM
It wasn't a random regular season game. It was a HA-HA moment for Kerr. He pulled a Pop on Pop.

Joke's on Kerr, though because LMA/Parker/Kawhi didn't play and I bet he didn't know that when he made his decision in the heat of the moment after that stinging defeat where all the players were complaining about missed calls. And what MTM said was right, they tanked the game. Wondering if Kerr would've tanked the game if it was against PHX or if the SA/Minnesota games were switched.


In the end, the league has to do a better job making the schedule and when teams pull stuff like this, they should change to an alternate game if possible.

Heediot
03-14-2017, 08:07 AM
I would be pissed if I paid advertising money for a prime time national tv game. There could have been other ways to rest players. Both coaches probably don't want to show any strategy and reveal anything against a top opponent.