PDA

View Full Version : Portland…



Dade County
03-08-2017, 12:06 AM
What can they do to get better?


Damian Lillard and C.J McCollum have the skill set offensively and both players have shown to be able to knock down BIG shots in pressure moments.

Is it as simple as making a move for a big man or two?


Blake Griffin (free agency?)… It could happen if Portland could trade for a defensive center.
Andre Drummond (trade?)
Brook Lopez (trade?)
Nikola Mirotic
Channing Frye
Tiago Splitter
David Lee (if he opts out)

sep11ie
03-08-2017, 12:23 AM
They have a ridiculous amount of money on some bad contracts. Gonna be tough for them to do much.

tp13baby
03-08-2017, 12:42 AM
Nurkic has played well since going to Portland. Its the amount of terrible contracts they have in Crabbe, Turner etc.

TheMightyHumph
03-08-2017, 12:54 AM
What can they do to get better?


Damian Lillard and C.J McCollum have the skill set offensively and both players have shown to be able to knock down BIG shots in pressure moments.

Is it as simple as making a move for a big man or two?


Blake Griffin (free agency?)… It could happen if Portland could trade for a defensive center.
Andre Drummond (trade?)
Brook Lopez (trade?)
Nikola Mirotic
Channing Frye
Tiago Splitter
David Lee (if he opts out)

They just did it with the Plumlee trade.

Dade County
03-08-2017, 01:20 AM
They just did it with the Plumlee trade.


If thats the case, they need to go into rebuilding mode then.


They have two very nice pieces & it would be a shame if they couldn't build this team up, to at least make it to the WCF in the next 2 to 3yrs.

They need to make a move, to catchup to the Spurs.... GS is toooo far ahead because of KD joining Warriors.

More-Than-Most
03-08-2017, 02:05 AM
They need Damian Lillard to play defense... Or try to play defense... Or learn to play defense... He isnt IT or Harden bad but its bad... Also those ****ing contracts man... This is why I am all for tanking... mid tier teams cant jump up to legit contenders without everything falling into place because superstars wanting to play with each other.

Scoots
03-08-2017, 10:08 AM
They need Damian Lillard to play defense... Or try to play defense... Or learn to play defense... He isnt IT or Harden bad but its bad... Also those ****ing contracts man... This is why I am all for tanking... mid tier teams cant jump up to legit contenders without everything falling into place because superstars wanting to play with each other.

They did what the Suns did ... finish a season stronger than expected then massively overpay to keep them together.

nycericanguy
03-08-2017, 11:00 AM
keep the team together.... Nurkic is a beast, can't believe DEN traded him for Plumlee AND added a 1st.

Nurkic
Lillard
CJ

is a great trio, but they have to learn to play together and develop chemistry. They have good role players too, but no one has patience these days to allow a team to grow together.

Hawkeye15
03-08-2017, 12:18 PM
For the next 1-2 years, they is what they is. They spent a ridiculous amount of money to retain a roster that overachieved last year.

JLynn943
03-08-2017, 12:52 PM
I think Nurkic was a good add for them. I don't know what they can do as they are to take the next step though.

Vee-Rex
03-08-2017, 02:34 PM
Needed to trade McCollum or Lillard. That's like having two Kyrie Irvings in your backcourt. You can do great things with one, but two will destroy the defense.

Obviously there's more issues as well.

mrblisterdundee
03-08-2017, 02:43 PM
Lillard and McCollum should not start together. They're both good enough to run the offense and hit big shots, but together they're the worst defensive starting back court in the NBA. They'd work great if McCollum was willing to be a super-sub like Ginobili. But I don't see that happening, with how good he is.
It would take a lot coming back, but I would trade either of them for a younger player with more two-way promise — Exum, Hood, Wiggins, Maker, Brogdon, etc. Portland really screwed up by not going for Noel.
I would start Crabbe at shooting guard. He got paid, so start the guy and give him the reps to hopefully develop. We already know he can shoot, and he has more defensive promise than Lillard or McCollum.
Nurkic is providing some promise, although doing well at this point likely means a crappier first-round pick or a first-round drubbing by Golden State. I like Nurkic's passing, defensive ability. And at only 22 years old, he could be a keeper.
I also think the Blazers should trade Aminu, especially with the development of Harkless.

Rivera
03-08-2017, 05:36 PM
i really cant add anything that was already said, as mentioned tons of bad contracts. I am more curious about IF Portland kept Batum and LMA where would they be at now?

valade16
03-08-2017, 05:53 PM
What can Portland do? The answer is easy: keep making sneaky good trades that incrementally improve the team like the Nurkic deal.

Since Nurkic arrived Portland's Drtg is 99 which would be best in the league for the full season. I don't for a second believe Portland keeps up such great defensive play but he's clearly given them a boost defensively.

We have a lot of good pieces, we have a lot of bad contracts. Realistically there is no chance they catch the Warriors and the chances of them catching the Spurs is remote. They can given some other good moves make it up to the Houston/Utah/LAC level.

Consider in Houston's case they went to the WCF, dropped back down to earth, and are now back to a top 3 team in the conference. In the same way the Blazers overacted to one year (last year) when we overachieved), it would be equally as stupid to overreact to this one year we have underachieved.

Olshey has shown he is a good drafter and trader, if we hit on a couple picks or trades we are right there. Trying to completely tear it down is a bad move at this point. Memphis won't be sustaining it's play for many more years and Utah may lose Gordon to Boston.

Dade County
03-08-2017, 09:05 PM
Lillard and McCollum should not start together. They're both good enough to run the offense and hit big shots, but together they're the worst defensive starting back court in the NBA. They'd work great if McCollum was willing to be a super-sub like Ginobili. But I don't see that happening, with how good he is.
It would take a lot coming back, but I would trade either of them for a younger player with more two-way promise — Exum, Hood, Wiggins, Maker, Brogdon, etc. Portland really screwed up by not going for Noel.
I would start Crabbe at shooting guard. He got paid, so start the guy and give him the reps to hopefully develop. We already know he can shoot, and he has more defensive promise than Lillard or McCollum.
Nurkic is providing some promise, although doing well at this point likely means a crappier first-round pick or a first-round drubbing by Golden State. I like Nurkic's passing, defensive ability. And at only 22 years old, he could be a keeper.
I also think the Blazers should trade Aminu, especially with the development of Harkless.


On the money with that one. Noel could have grown with them and he is what they truly need.



i really cant add anything that was already said, as mentioned tons of bad contracts. I am more curious about IF Portland kept Batum and LMA where would they be at now?

Don't think they could have sign LMA, because it seems like he already made up his mind to leave town. But Batum on the other hand they traded; & they really need a defensive mindset first type of a small forward.

valade16
03-08-2017, 09:21 PM
As a Blazer fan I'd rather have Nurkic than Noel.

BRAVE KID
03-08-2017, 09:42 PM
keep the team together.... Nurkic is a beast, can't believe DEN traded him for Plumlee AND added a 1st.

Nurkic
Lillard
CJ

is a great trio, but they have to learn to play together and develop chemistry. They have good role players too, but no one has patience these days to allow a team to grow together.Nurkic gave up on the Nuggets. He was given every chance to win the starting C job (yea, Malone actually started Nurkic over Jokic)...he didn't win it. Couldn't play with Jokic (not entirely his fault), was benched for overall poor play/effort...he didn't like it...*****ed and complained...got sent to Portland.

He wasn't going to make it work with the Nuggets so there was not much Denver could do about it.

The first rounder given up sucks though.

tp13baby
03-08-2017, 10:06 PM
keep the team together.... Nurkic is a beast, can't believe DEN traded him for Plumlee AND added a 1st.

Nurkic
Lillard
CJ

is a great trio, but they have to learn to play together and develop chemistry. They have good role players too, but no one has patience these days to allow a team to grow together.

You must be unaware of the Nurkic situation. He was given the opportunity to win the starting job. We traded Joffrey Lauvergne which now looking at it would be a better fit next to Jokic. He won the starting Center job, Jokic moved to PF, it didn't work. Jokic went to Malone asking to come off the bench because he could not play next to Nurk. After game 10 Nurkic started to struggle. Missed shots around the rim, turns the ball over at a high rate for a center, a terrible pick and roll defender. Any ways he got worse and we went through a stretch where he was our worst player on the court in losses to the Nets and Mavs. Jokic was playing efficient and steady so he moved to the starting role.

Goes on Nurkic was not seeing his 28 minutes per game but closer to 15 minutes. He began to pout and it was so clear that he felt sorry for himself in games. He played with no intensity and pretty much gave up on his team. To a media member publicly makes it clear he wanted to be moved which is a joke for a 22 year old who isn't earning his minutes. There was even one game where he left the bench and went to the locker room shortly after halftime and apparently he left the arena.

1. He had his chance to start over Jokic, and he lost it.
2. His attitude made it impossible to not move on from.
3. He had to earn minutes, and he didn't do that. Plumlee plays 22ish minutes a game for us. Mudiay hasn't even been in the rotation but he hasn't cried.

Nurkic is a pre madonna, if you think Cousins is a problem, it will take one problem in Portland for him to cry. He is a hell of a player when he wants to be but Denver had no choice but to give up on him because he already gave up on the team


I’m 23 years old. I’m not here to sit on the bench. I’m here to play basketball. And it’s a tough decision for me, from a starting spot and 20 minutes to four straight (games of not playing). … You control what you control, and I let my agent do the rest of the stuff.
Reading between the lines there it’s clear that Nurkic was going to let his agent push for a trade while at the same time he would continue to do his job. The problem of course was that’s not really what happened. While there’s very little to go on as far as reports about Nurkic not working hard there were rumors that when he left the bench during halftime of a game he in fact had left the arena and the team had to send someone to bring him back. via Denver Stiffs

europagnpilgrim
03-08-2017, 11:33 PM
They should bring CJ off the bench and start a better back court defender to balance it out with the franchise player in Lillard

they should have never signed Turner to begin with and saved/used that money to have made a play/trade for a Noel, the Denver trade was decent since I think it came with a pick with it

Portland is never worried about a salary cap since they have a owner who has Microsoft money to fall on

if CJ doesn't want to be that Vinny Microwave/Crawford/Manu type of instant offense off the bench I would see what his value is on the trade market this offseason and try to get a wing who can create and shoot the 3 or a stretch type big for him or just to free up some money to throw elsewhere, I would have never signed him to that deal in the first place

that guy from Denver comes to mind who can stretch and create, Gallinari or however you spell his name

they should go after a Ibaka and another scrappy rim protector or perimeter type like a Tony Allen/Tucker

its easier said than done but that would be a nice plan to put in place

North Yorker
03-08-2017, 11:55 PM
Why did they trade Batum again? I know he was a year away from FA but it's not like they're short on money with that ownership. Did they just really like Vonleh?

tp13baby
03-09-2017, 12:44 AM
They should bring CJ off the bench and start a better back court defender to balance it out with the franchise player in Lillard

they should have never signed Turner to begin with and saved/used that money to have made a play/trade for a Noel, the Denver trade was decent since I think it came with a pick with it

Portland is never worried about a salary cap since they have a owner who has Microsoft money to fall on

if CJ doesn't want to be that Vinny Microwave/Crawford/Manu type of instant offense off the bench I would see what his value is on the trade market this offseason and try to get a wing who can create and shoot the 3 or a stretch type big for him or just to free up some money to throw elsewhere, I would have never signed him to that deal in the first place

that guy from Denver comes to mind who can stretch and create, Gallinari or however you spell his name

they should go after a Ibaka and another scrappy rim protector or perimeter type like a Tony Allen/Tucker

its easier said than done but that would be a nice plan to put in place

All sounds nice but they have no money to do so. They idiotically invested too much money into their back court.

valade16
03-09-2017, 12:49 AM
All sounds nice but they have no money to do so. They idiotically invested too much money into their back court.

The idiocy wasn't investing a ton of money in their backcourt, who are two great players, the idiocy was investing so much in our wings (Crabbe/Turner/Aminu/Harkless).

tp13baby
03-09-2017, 01:04 AM
The idiocy wasn't investing a ton of money in their backcourt, who are two great players, the idiocy was investing so much in our wings (Crabbe/Turner/Aminu/Harkless).

I included Turner and Crabbe as a back court, but yes those wings got way too much money.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-09-2017, 01:08 AM
Don't they have like $125 mil in salary committed next year or something like that?

HandsOnTheWheel
03-09-2017, 05:17 AM
Blazers are ****ed dude

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-09-2017, 09:58 AM
What can they do to get better?


Damian Lillard and C.J McCollum have the skill set offensively and both players have shown to be able to knock down BIG shots in pressure moments.

Is it as simple as making a move for a big man or two?


Blake Griffin (free agency?)… It could happen if Portland could trade for a defensive center.
Andre Drummond (trade?)
Brook Lopez (trade?)
Nikola Mirotic
Channing Frye
Tiago Splitter
David Lee (if he opts out)

Blazers are capped out with dead weight contracts from this past summer. No way they do much of anything for free agency now. They have to count on the draft now.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland_trail_blazers/

Blazers are at $119M this season. $137M next season barring any salary dump trades. Then at $119M following season. Also Blazers cant salary dump trade Crabbe to the Nets since Nets gave him the offer sheet. Not sure if 76ers be interested in eating dead weight contracts. Since they unloaded soon to be RFA Noel. They probably knew some desperate team would offer him $20M per.

tp13baby
03-09-2017, 10:11 AM
Blazers are capped out with dead weight contracts from this past summer. No way they do much of anything for free agency now. They have to count on the draft now.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland_trail_blazers/

Blazers are at $119M this season. $137M next season barring any salary dump trades. Then at $119M following season. Also Blazers cant salary dump trade Crabbe to the Nets since Nets gave him the offer sheet. Not sure if 76ers be interested in eating dead weight contracts. Since they unloaded soon to be RFA Noel. They probably knew some desperate team would offer him $20M per.

The NBA needs to fix the RFA structure. Like the NHL. The NBA team should get a draft pick back based off amount spent on the FA if he is offered a deal. These teams are driving up the cost of average players and its hurting everyone.

mrblisterdundee
03-09-2017, 02:58 PM
The idiocy wasn't investing a ton of money in their backcourt, who are two great players, the idiocy was investing so much in our wings (Crabbe/Turner/Aminu/Harkless).

Crabbe was bad, and Turner was horrible. But Aminu and Harkless at $8 million each are cheap, smart and tradable contracts for the Blazers.

valade16
03-09-2017, 03:40 PM
Crabbe was bad, and Turner was horrible. But Aminu and Harkless at $8 million each are cheap, smart and tradable contracts for the Blazers.

I mean, Turner was obviously really bad but I don't think people realize the situation with the Blazers (and it is frustrating when so many are commenting as if they do).

The Blazers last year were under cap, however had they spent none of that money they would have been over cap this season by re-signing CJ McCollum, so it was either use the cap space they had at the time or don't use the cap space at all. Given that, it seems pretty obvious to try and go "all in" on improving the team as the options were try to improve or keep the team as is. There was no wait a year and try again possible.

The only other option was to have let CJ walk, probably trade Lillard and start all over. I don't think that was ever a serious consideration (nor should it have been).

Heediot
03-09-2017, 04:29 PM
The idiocy wasn't investing a ton of money in their backcourt, who are two great players, the idiocy was investing so much in our wings (Crabbe/Turner/Aminu/Harkless).

I like some of the wings. Just didn't like the Turner signing. He's another ball handler and play-maker but they needed to use that money elsewhere to cover up more pressing holes.

nycericanguy
03-10-2017, 10:20 AM
You must be unaware of the Nurkic situation. He was given the opportunity to win the starting job. We traded Joffrey Lauvergne which now looking at it would be a better fit next to Jokic. He won the starting Center job, Jokic moved to PF, it didn't work. Jokic went to Malone asking to come off the bench because he could not play next to Nurk. After game 10 Nurkic started to struggle. Missed shots around the rim, turns the ball over at a high rate for a center, a terrible pick and roll defender. Any ways he got worse and we went through a stretch where he was our worst player on the court in losses to the Nets and Mavs. Jokic was playing efficient and steady so he moved to the starting role.

Goes on Nurkic was not seeing his 28 minutes per game but closer to 15 minutes. He began to pout and it was so clear that he felt sorry for himself in games. He played with no intensity and pretty much gave up on his team. To a media member publicly makes it clear he wanted to be moved which is a joke for a 22 year old who isn't earning his minutes. There was even one game where he left the bench and went to the locker room shortly after halftime and apparently he left the arena.

1. He had his chance to start over Jokic, and he lost it.
2. His attitude made it impossible to not move on from.
3. He had to earn minutes, and he didn't do that. Plumlee plays 22ish minutes a game for us. Mudiay hasn't even been in the rotation but he hasn't cried.

Nurkic is a pre madonna, if you think Cousins is a problem, it will take one problem in Portland for him to cry. He is a hell of a player when he wants to be but Denver had no choice but to give up on him because he already gave up on the team

via Denver Stiffs

i get that he had no future in DEN, but it was a bad trade, PLumlee is a FA now and he'll get paid big, so he could end up being a 25 game rental and he's not that good anyway, and Nurkic always had a ton of talent.

Dude just put up 28/20/8/6/2 ! are u kidding me? u give up a 1st to get rid of a guy like that?

tp13baby
03-10-2017, 11:14 AM
i get that he had no future in DEN, but it was a bad trade, PLumlee is a FA now and he'll get paid big, so he could end up being a 25 game rental and he's not that good anyway, and Nurkic always had a ton of talent.

Dude just put up 28/20/8/6/2 ! are u kidding me? u give up a 1st to get rid of a guy like that?

Hell of a game, but HE QUIT ON US. Instead of those type of games he was putting up 5 ppg, 4 rpg, 0 apg and 6 turnovers a game. What are you supposed to do? What would you do? He was a cancer. People complain about COusins being a cancer but at least he is a superstar.

Nurkic before this year was my favorite Nugget, and there is no doubt he has a lot of Demarcus Cousins in him, emotionally and talent wise. He is not anywhere near Jokics level right now, and they don't play well together at all.

Its a testament to how well Nurkic was doing when we had to include a first for Plumlee who is a free agent that Portland wouldn't of spent the money on. It was either Nurkic or Okafor and Denver got desperate.

mrblisterdundee
03-10-2017, 01:23 PM
I mean, Turner was obviously really bad but I don't think people realize the situation with the Blazers (and it is frustrating when so many are commenting as if they do).

The Blazers last year were under cap, however had they spent none of that money they would have been over cap this season by re-signing CJ McCollum, so it was either use the cap space they had at the time or don't use the cap space at all. Given that, it seems pretty obvious to try and go "all in" on improving the team as the options were try to improve or keep the team as is. There was no wait a year and try again possible.

The only other option was to have let CJ walk, probably trade Lillard and start all over. I don't think that was ever a serious consideration (nor should it have been).

My main point was contesting your inclusion of Aminu and Harkless as bad contracts. Both those guys were great signings on cheap deals.
Harkless is a 23-year-old, do-it-all combo forward who can shoot from three. He should be part of the Blazers for a while. He's only making $11 million at the end of his deal.
Aminu is another do-it-all combo forward, and while not as good from behind the arc, is the Blazers' best defender, only 26 and only making around $7 million a season. He'd be great trade bait if the Blazers try to unload one of their bad contracts.

valade16
03-10-2017, 02:54 PM
i get that he had no future in DEN, but it was a bad trade, PLumlee is a FA now and he'll get paid big, so he could end up being a 25 game rental and he's not that good anyway, and Nurkic always had a ton of talent.

Dude just put up 28/20/8/6/2 ! are u kidding me? u give up a 1st to get rid of a guy like that?

It would have been a bad trade if the Nurkic in Denver was the same Nurkic in Portland but he wasn't. He didn't play with nearly as much effort.

Firefistus
03-10-2017, 08:43 PM
I don't know if there's a way to come back from this. First things first, you need to fire the Front Office for putting the team in this situation in the first place. They brought in players that didn't fit their system and then asked them to play their style ball....doesn't work that way fella's.

As of right now, they are tied to 112 million, over the salary cap there.
Next year tied to 142 million (10 million in non-guaranteed)
18-19 they are tied to 137 (28 million in non-guaranteed)
19-20 they are tied to 120 million (20 million in non-guaranteed)

Unless they can dump the bad contracts, which is difficult at BEST, they need to trade the players they can to drop the cap. By the time 2021 comes around they will have cap room, but Lillard will be sick and tired of Portland by then if this roster remains the same as it is now.

My prediction? See you in 5 years Portland, because you'll be scraping by to make the playoffs until then.