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View Full Version : LBJ says Korver would be more effective with Cavs: he is! 3pt% leader



JasonJohnHorn
03-06-2017, 04:30 PM
When they traded for Korver, LBJ said they would get him wide open shots that would make him far more effective. He was right.


Korver is now shooting OVER .500 from 3pt range with the Cavs, his second highest percentage ever (he shot .536 with Utah in 2010). Given most guys are on the decline by 35 (though shooters have often bucked that trend with respect to percentage, so this is not unheard of), so this is especially impressive. He is now leading the league in 3pt % at the age of 35.

Makes you wonder how utterly amazing this guy could have been had he been a role player on stacked teams that kept him wide open like other 3pt specialists have.


Is this an impressive accomplishment? Where does Korver rank for you all time as a shooter? What does this say about LBJ? Or the coaching? Any other thoughts or insights?

HandsOnTheWheel
03-06-2017, 04:58 PM
Any other thoughts or insights?

Lebron.

More-Than-Most
03-06-2017, 05:01 PM
Its the Lebron James effect.... This is why people that think he isnt the mvp and that this team is built for him so when he isnt there they lose because of that are just morons... Nobody in the history of the sport makes players that much better around this guy because of his game... if you want a massive contract you come and play with lebron for 1 year and leave... the dude will make just about anyone 3 times the player they are... we seen what he did for the crap he had in cleveland the first go around

There isnt a team that isnt built for lebron... he could fit on any team and make them better. The thing is people want to crown other guys like harden/westy/durant... personally my top 2 would be lebron and leonard... then a guy like harden or durant. As great as a offensive player as lebron is all around his defense is back... Leonard is the opposite... shut down defender who now has his all around offensive game going... both guys are the 2 most complete players in basketball next to a durant.

valade16
03-06-2017, 05:29 PM
Hopefully this dispels the notion that individual stats aren't affected by the team.

Heediot
03-06-2017, 06:21 PM
Its the Lebron James effect.... This is why people that think he isnt the mvp and that this team is built for him so when he isnt there they lose because of that are just morons... Nobody in the history of the sport makes players that much better around this guy because of his game... if you want a massive contract you come and play with lebron for 1 year and leave... the dude will make just about anyone 3 times the player they are... we seen what he did for the crap he had in cleveland the first go around

There isnt a team that isnt built for lebron... he could fit on any team and make them better. The thing is people want to crown other guys like harden/westy/durant... personally my top 2 would be lebron and leonard... then a guy like harden or durant. As great as a offensive player as lebron is all around his defense is back... Leonard is the opposite... shut down defender who now has his all around offensive game going... both guys are the 2 most complete players in basketball next to a durant.

LeBron makes players who are role players or guys who don't need to dominate the ball, better players. You could make the argument that He made Bosh and Wade worse, as they put up better numbers when he left Miami and before they teamed up with him.

I think the attention he draws on offense and his willingness to share the ball makes him one of the best ever at elevating his team mates. Reasons why I think a guy like AD is over-rated. AD's is one of the best individual players and his efficiency will help produce wins, but I'm not sure if he has the type of game compared to other bigs like say Dirk, the Gasols, Duncan or Jokic who know the subtleties and have the vision/feel to elevate their teams offenses.

Vee-Rex
03-06-2017, 06:27 PM
that euro dude is gonna feast on you guys with the semantics on 'better players'

IndyRealist
03-06-2017, 06:30 PM
Hopefully this dispels the notion that individual stats aren't affected by the team.

I would genuinely love to see a quote of someone saying that.

ewing
03-06-2017, 06:40 PM
Not surprised. Bron is truly a great passing while driving or posting to find shooters and Irving is an elite scorer off the drive plus they put shooters everywhere. Korver is a very good fit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tredigs
03-06-2017, 07:11 PM
Interestingly they've been a losing team with him on the court so far (113 O rating to 115 opponent O rating). It's possible his D is so atrocious that it hurts them as a whole even when he's shooting at these levels.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-06-2017, 08:28 PM
White men can shoot.

aman_13
03-06-2017, 08:55 PM
But players don't make other players better?

Jeffy25
03-08-2017, 03:32 AM
Hopefully this dispels the notion that individual stats aren't affected by the team.

No, sample size and the fact that it isn't that different from his career averages.

J.R. Smith did the same thing.

Both are shooting about their career best...considering they don't have to take as many bad shots on their team. But this doesn't dispel individual stats at all.

Obviously teams affect individual stats. That's not new information.

IKnowHoops
03-08-2017, 04:55 AM
Interestingly they've been a losing team with him on the court so far (113 O rating to 115 opponent O rating). It's possible his D is so atrocious that it hurts them as a whole even when he's shooting at these levels.


Its possible...damn

IKnowHoops
03-08-2017, 04:56 AM
White men can shoot.

Ricky Rubio says hello

JasonJohnHorn
03-08-2017, 10:37 AM
LeBron makes players who are role players or guys who don't need to dominate the ball, better players. You could make the argument that He made Bosh and Wade worse, as they put up better numbers when he left Miami and before they teamed up with him.



I'm impressed with James, but not enamoured with him like some. That said, I think when you say he made Bosh and Wade worse, you have to put that into context. Were their averages lower? Yes. Were they more/as efficient? Yes.

The four seasons Wade played with James were his four highest FG% postings. He handled the ball less, and had less work to do on the glass, so his assist and rebound averages were a little lower, but he was every bit as good at both as he was prior to LBJ, he just didn't need to do it as much. And given his rise in FG%, it's clear that not having that extra worked to do improve his efficiency.

Bost posted some of his highest FG%s as well, and his four years with LBJ saw his FG% match his career average, so certainly not worse. His rebounding dipped, but that is because he was on a good rebounding team that didn't require him to get all the boards.

Plus they both won at a level neither of them had been able to achieve without James.

Saying they were worse just because there averages were lower doesn't seem like a fair assessment.

FlashBolt
03-08-2017, 12:27 PM
Bosh and Wade were worse because both didn't have the skills to be on a team with LeBron. What I meant is that Bosh wasn't a guy who could do the "other things" outside of scoring. He was a below average rebounder who's only defensive ability involved chasing guards through pick-and-roll. It's why even though his numbers were down, he was more efficient. I didn't see a development in Bosh's game which leads me to believe that he was just stat-stuffing in Toronto. Hence, how many games did he win in the playoffs? I think it was 1 or something. One playoff win in seven years. As for Wade, I won't hold it against him. Clearly he had a huge impact on LeBron's career but some of you pretend that Wade was 100% healthy. He just wasn't. The second year, Wade kept dealing with injuries and sat out game after game. At one point, I think LeBron carried the Heat to a better record without Wade than with Wade. I'm not sure what happened with his injuries as he's clearly gotten healthier thus far but yeah, his knees were a big problem and most Heat fans will attest to that. It's not even about shooting %'s anymore as well. It's an undeniable fact that LeBron gets his teammates the most open looks they have probably ever seen. It's on them whether they make it or not. LeBron can't change how they rebound, score, or defend.. certain guys just have to learn their roles on a championship contending team and adjust their game.

IndyRealist
03-08-2017, 12:31 PM
Anyone else think that scouting needs an adjustment period to catch up to new personnel? Teams need tape to figure out where and when Korver will get the ball.

Vee-Rex
03-08-2017, 12:36 PM
Anyone else think that scouting needs an adjustment period to catch up to new personnel? Teams need tape to figure out where and when Korver will get the ball.

Hopefully that adjustment period lasts throughout the playoffs and finals. Then they can figure out all they want. :D

FlashBolt
03-08-2017, 12:37 PM
Anyone else think that scouting needs an adjustment period to catch up to new personnel? Teams need tape to figure out where and when Korver will get the ball.

It will be entirely different once Love/Smith comes back. The looks Korver will get is going to be different. Right now, Shump is playing Smith's role and while he's efficient, he's hardly the same threat J.R. can be as a wing shooter. I'm also seeing Richard J. play Love's role which is why he's been shooting more since Love's been absent. That changes when Love is back. He should be getting better looks when those two guys come back.

ewing
03-08-2017, 07:59 PM
Anyone else think that scouting needs an adjustment period to catch up to new personnel? Teams need tape to figure out where and when Korver will get the ball.

No, the report on Kover is don't give him air space.

Heediot
03-08-2017, 08:35 PM
I'm impressed with James, but not enamoured with him like some. That said, I think when you say he made Bosh and Wade worse, you have to put that into context. Were their averages lower? Yes. Were they more/as efficient? Yes.

The four seasons Wade played with James were his four highest FG% postings. He handled the ball less, and had less work to do on the glass, so his assist and rebound averages were a little lower, but he was every bit as good at both as he was prior to LBJ, he just didn't need to do it as much. And given his rise in FG%, it's clear that not having that extra worked to do improve his efficiency.

Bost posted some of his highest FG%s as well, and his four years with LBJ saw his FG% match his career average, so certainly not worse. His rebounding dipped, but that is because he was on a good rebounding team that didn't require him to get all the boards.

Plus they both won at a level neither of them had been able to achieve without James.

Saying they were worse just because there averages were lower doesn't seem like a fair assessment.

That's true, James did give them easier looks. All I heard were excuses about James' lacking help in his last two seasons on psd. I feel James' makes Wade less effective because they are both guys who need to get to the rim and handle the rock to be their best. Since neither are the greatest from range. I think James takes away some of Bosh's post touches and just turns him into more of a shooter. There are pro's and con's when your a star playing with James. The pro's certainly outweigh the con's as in wins and ships over touches and counting stats.

Chronz
03-08-2017, 09:03 PM
You could make the argument that He made Bosh and Wade worse, as they put up better numbers when he left Miami and before they teamed up with him.
Before they teamed up yeah but after? Not seeing much of a difference if there is one really. Wade was already on the decline and Bosh vowed to never play the style that produced his peak season. Him expanding his range was the natural progression of an elite shooter like him, so to was his weight loss.


I think the attention he draws on offense and his willingness to share the ball makes him one of the best ever at elevating his team mates. Reasons why I think a guy like AD is over-rated. AD's is one of the best individual players and his efficiency will help produce wins, but I'm not sure if he has the type of game compared to other bigs like say Dirk, the Gasols, Duncan or Jokic who know the subtleties and have the vision/feel to elevate their teams offenses.

Blake is on that level in terms of a floor game, a big reason I too have him above higher producers as well.

Chronz
03-08-2017, 09:08 PM
It will be entirely different once Love/Smith comes back. The looks Korver will get is going to be different. Right now, Shump is playing Smith's role and while he's efficient, he's hardly the same threat J.R. can be as a wing shooter. I'm also seeing Richard J. play Love's role which is why he's been shooting more since Love's been absent. That changes when Love is back. He should be getting better looks when those two guys come back.

Any worry that they are running out of time to integrate so many pieces.