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JasonJohnHorn
03-05-2017, 01:57 PM
The MVP race is really interesting this year, but I think the COY is going to have a significant role in the MVP race, and coaches sometimes steal the thunder away from their players.


However, this could be a replay of the Thibs/Rose season, where the Bull exceeded expectations, and Rose and Thibs were jointly given credit for their success. This year the Rockets have put themselves in a similar position, with 'Antoni validating his past success and Harden proving he can lead a team.


Still, some players see their production overshadowed by their coach. Leonard, for example, doesn't seem to be getting as much MVP love as LBJ, Harden, and Westy, I think in large part due to the fact that people assume the Spurs are doing so well because of Pop. The Spurs are on pace for 64 wins right now, more than the 62 wins that the Bulls won in 2011, and in a tougher conference. Yet not nearly as many people are pushing for a Pop/Leonard COY/MVP combo, perhaps because Pop has set the bar so high for himself.



So... two part question.... who you got for coach of the year? 'Antoni? Pop? Kerr? Stevens? Other?

And are coaches like Pop and 'Antoni, by getting so much credit for their teams' success, stealing the MVP thunder away from players like Harden and Leonard? If you have any past examples of guys you think got snubbed for MVP because of their coach, or vice versa, feel free to share.

D-Leethal
03-05-2017, 02:13 PM
Mike D

Giannis94
03-05-2017, 02:16 PM
Spolestra.

HandsOnTheWheel
03-05-2017, 02:53 PM
As of today, D'Antoni should win it with Pop and Spo getting consideration.

mightybosstone
03-05-2017, 04:39 PM
I don't get why Spoelstra is even in the conversation, to be honest. Yes, they have played some great basketball in 2017 thus far. But they're still five games below .500, and if the season ended today, they wouldn't be in the playoffs. Why should a coach get rewarded for that? I think D'Antoni, Pop and guys like Brad Stevens, Quin Snyder and Scott Brooks all deserve it more than Spo at this point.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-05-2017, 04:43 PM
It's easily D'Antoni. I thought the Rockets would be good but not this good.

HandsOnTheWheel
03-05-2017, 04:46 PM
I don't get why Spoelstra is even in the conversation, to be honest. Yes, they have played some great basketball in 2017 thus far. But they're still five games below .500, and if the season ended today, they wouldn't be in the playoffs. Why should a coach get rewarded for that? I think D'Antoni, Pop and guys like Brad Stevens, Quin Snyder and Scott Brooks all deserve it more than Spo at this point.

13 game win streak with scrubs? Turning around an 11-30 team to be playoff bound? That's why.

JasonJohnHorn
03-05-2017, 08:00 PM
I don't get why Spoelstra is even in the conversation, to be honest. Yes, they have played some great basketball in 2017 thus far. But they're still five games below .500, and if the season ended today, they wouldn't be in the playoffs. Why should a coach get rewarded for that? I think D'Antoni, Pop and guys like Brad Stevens, Quin Snyder and Scott Brooks all deserve it more than Spo at this point.

At 13-game win streak is not unheard of, it is just a bit of an anomaly for a team so far under .500

Given that he's had the same roster all year, one has to say: why wasn't he winning earlier? If this team is capable of a win streak like that, why were they 11-30 to start with? Teams get tired part way through the season, you have elite teams like the Warriors suddenly dropping back-to-back games, and teams that weren't that good that have improved aren't being scouted by teams who are focusing on top-tier teams, so they have a better chance at upset. Spo is a solid coach, but a team that far under .500 isn't getting COY in my book.

Snyder and Brooks are great picks you pointed out.

The Wizards only won 41 games last year, they have 36 already this year with the same roster, and despite the fact that there were some serious locker room issues heading into the season. Brooks warrants some votes for that for sure.

Snyder is a little less high on my ladder, but he's doing great work. He is doing what a great coach should do. Take a mediocre team, ad progress a little bit each year. But he's also had a couple of seasons with this team already, so this kind of growth is what should be expected, especially with a healthy roster.

Snyder is getting the best basketball out of George Hill that somebody could hope to get, and since Hill already played under two of the best coaches in the league, that's pretty impressive.

It's also great to see a guy like Haywood continue to improve.... a lot of guys like him have plateaued by this point in their careers, but his points have gone up significantly without a noticeable increase in the number of shots he's getting because his percentages are up.

And he's really playing Gobert to his advantages. It's nice to see. Definitely a fine coach. And he's got a tough job in Utah. Small market teams struggle to improve when they are in the middle of the pack.

Great contribution to the conversation!

JAZZNC
03-05-2017, 08:05 PM
Snyder has done a great job. Especially given the crazy amount of injuries the team has suffered. There has been almost no continuity this year and he has them playing for home court advantage in round 1. He has done a phenomenal job.

That said, Mike D. should get it IMO. The Rockets are so much better than everybody but mightybosstone predicted. Excellent season for the Rockets this year.

JasonJohnHorn
03-05-2017, 08:13 PM
13 game win streak with scrubs? Turning around an 11-30 team to be playoff bound? That's why.

The win streak is impressive... and you are right... there are a lot of scrubs on that team. I mean.... Waiters was pretty close to not even getting a contract. Spo's a great coach, but I feel like the win streak was a bit of an anomaly. They were playing so bad teams weren't scouting them. Not they got their eye on them.

They are doing better than I would have expect and h deserves credit for that, but they aren't even at .500. I can't see giving COY to a guy who didn't even get to .500.

Spo's proving he deserves his job, that is for sure. But I would have to see this sustained before I'd consider him for COY. If they are at 45 wins or so at the end of the season... he's be in the top-five for sure.


That said... I did think Doc deserved it in 2000. He did a helluva job getting that Magic team to .500, but they missed the playoffs, and I think that cost him a lot of votes. They'd lost Penny, Grant, and Anderson, and were expected to be a celler dweller. Ron Mercer and Darrell Armstrong were their best players, and their third option was Tariq Abdul-Wahad or Chris Gatling. And their centre was a guy who wasn't even draft, and who later turned out to be Ben Wallace, but at the time people were stunned to see a guy that small play C.

I liek Spo though. I feel like he deserves more cred for the Big-3's wins.

CELTICS4LYFE
03-05-2017, 08:16 PM
Brad Stevens?

FOXHOUND
03-05-2017, 09:33 PM
If I had to choose today,

1. Poppa Bless
2. Mike D'Antoni
3. Steve Kerr
4. Brad Stevens
5. Quin Synder - bonus points for looking like a generic 90's villain.

Pop has success fatigue, much like Michael Jordan with MVP awards, so he probably won't win again. Still, seems kind of dumb to penalize both Pop and Kawhi for their success. They are right up the *** of GS being 2.5 back despite being far less talented. Not only that, but with 2 games left to play against each other the top seed/best NBA record is still up for grabs.

If it were my call, they would win CoY and MVP together. It feels like they would need to overtake GS in the standings to do so, even though nobody is really considering anyone from GS for either award. Logic!

cmellofan15
03-05-2017, 09:34 PM
13 game win streak with scrubs? Turning around an 11-30 team to be playoff bound? That's why.

lmao he was the coach of that 11-30 team tho. they are still less than mediocre at the end of the day, streakiness included.

FOXHOUND
03-05-2017, 09:47 PM
To the second part of your question - it feels like both D'Antoni and Harden have good shots to win their awards. What would be the logic in awarding both over Pop and Kawhi? It's not Kawhi's fault that Harden can't transform a D like he can, is it? I also think that a big part of the success boon in Houston is being overlooked and that is the additions of Gordon and Anderson who have been huge for D'Antoni's system. Lou Williams was another excellent pick up.

It does feel like Houston can sweep CoY, MVP and Exec of the Year, doesn't it? What I don't get is, if that happens, why wouldn't they cancel each other out like Pop and Kawhi seem to be doing?

Maybe an unpopular opinion here, but I think D'Antoni + Morey deserve more credit than Harden. I don't feel like he's really playing that much better than last year, rather than being the PG in D'Antoni's system has given him a bump in both assists and turnovers like it does for every PG. The REB jump from 6.1 to 8.0 can also be attributed to going from Dwight to Nene/Capela at C.

That's why I have D'Antoni 2nd in CoY right now, he deserves more credit for their success. This is coming from someone who despises D'Antoni, btw lol. I would currently place Harden 3rd in MVP, tops. I could probably argue that Isiah Thomas may have a better case for MVP over Harden, but idk they're close for me.

JasonJohnHorn
03-05-2017, 10:59 PM
5. Quin Synder - bonus points for looking like a generic 90's villain.


LMAO.... so true.... so true!!

HandsOnTheWheel
03-05-2017, 11:01 PM
I'm not saying he should get COY, but does deserve acknowledgement. I'm not even a Spo fan either.

JasonJohnHorn
03-05-2017, 11:07 PM
To the second part of your question - it feels like both D'Antoni and Harden have good shots to win their awards. What would be the logic in awarding both over Pop and Kawhi? It's not Kawhi's fault that Harden can't transform a D like he can, is it? I also think that a big part of the success boon in Houston is being overlooked and that is the additions of Gordon and Anderson who have been huge for D'Antoni's system. Lou Williams was another excellent pick up.

It does feel like Houston can sweep CoY, MVP and Exec of the Year, doesn't it? What I don't get is, if that happens, why wouldn't they cancel each other out like Pop and Kawhi seem to be doing?

Maybe an unpopular opinion here, but I think D'Antoni + Morey deserve more credit than Harden. I don't feel like he's really playing that much better than last year, rather than being the PG in D'Antoni's system has given him a bump in both assists and turnovers like it does for every PG. The REB jump from 6.1 to 8.0 can also be attributed to going from Dwight to Nene/Capela at C.

That's why I have D'Antoni 2nd in CoY right now, he deserves more credit for their success. This is coming from someone who despises D'Antoni, btw lol. I would currently place Harden 3rd in MVP, tops. I could probably argue that Isiah Thomas may have a better case for MVP over Harden, but idk they're close for me.

I think that's fair.

I got a Matt Boner for the Spurs, for if Pop and Leonard win them both, I will be happy. I certainly think Pop deserves COY. Leonard is a very deserving MVP candidate. 100%.

You raise a good point with the Morey/'Antoni comment... but I think we might even say it's just Morey. He brought in a coach and players to match the coach. Antoni should be buying Morey roses for that, because we've seen how well 'Antoni does when he doesn't have the players who suit his system. He is not a versatile coach. It's almost like Morey just found the right combo of players and coach to suit Harden.

But yeah... as well as Harden is playing, and he is playing well, there is a question as to whether his output is the reason for the Ws.

And Leonard is infinitely better of the defensive end. That should count for a lot more than it seems to.

FlashBolt
03-05-2017, 11:17 PM
Just because you're on a large win streak doesn't mean you should be COTY. This has D'Antoni or Brad Stevens all the way.

J_M_B
03-05-2017, 11:21 PM
lmao he was the coach of that 11-30 team tho. they are still less than mediocre at the end of the day, streakiness included.

Injuries dude. No team has had more games missed for injury than Miami. I think it's 254 or something crazy like that. Spo has kept it together with so few bodies. He created a system that adapted to his personnel offensively and also boost one of the best defenses in the league. Seriously the Heat were the Nets only competition for worst record in the league and now they are just a game out of the 8th spot. Spo never stopped coaching, best record in the NBA since Jan 21

cmellofan15
03-05-2017, 11:40 PM
its 203--second to the sixers. I get your point but throwing that out with no context is misleading when they are 10th in the league in lost VORP behind 8 playoff teams, and 7th in injury impact to VORP behind 6 playoff teams (weights the quality of players missing games based on VORP).

all that goes to say that it's not uncommon for good teams to be hit hard by the injury bug; Dwayne Casey, Doc Rivers, Brad Stevens and Quin Snyder have seen it this year and adapted accordingly without falling to those depths.

KnickNyKnick
03-06-2017, 12:45 AM
Jeff Hornacek should get COA, for Trying and Simultaneously Tanking.

burtgummer
03-06-2017, 05:36 AM
Scott Brooks should get some consideration
Wiz didn't make the playoffs last year and theyre the #3 seed this year

FlashBolt
03-06-2017, 06:12 AM
Scott Brooks should get some consideration
Wiz didn't make the playoffs last year and theyre the #3 seed this year

I kinda expected them to be at this level, tbh. Beal being healthy attributes to that.

CluTcH_c1tY
03-06-2017, 10:24 AM
Made really solid points until you said IT over Harden and that he was 3rd in the MVP running. At worst he's #2 behind Westbrook at worst. If we were at a bar and you said IT over Harden I would tell the bartender to cut you off and order you an uber for a safe ride home.

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