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View Full Version : Is Lebron Legacy Ruined If He Doesnt Win Another Title?



RocketLoc80
03-05-2017, 09:00 AM
Yes or No?

Giannis94
03-05-2017, 11:14 AM
OP was watching too much CNN

mightybosstone
03-05-2017, 11:20 AM
No. Please quit posting the same **** over and over again. It's pathetic.

bleedprple&gold
03-05-2017, 11:24 AM
Ruined? Wtf are you talking about??

RocketLoc80
03-05-2017, 12:55 PM
According to Bruce Blitz,Mike Sowell,Mad Genuis and JesseGladSaget it will be i didnt say this crap. Go on YouTube and check it out.

IndyRealist
03-05-2017, 01:05 PM
Such silliness. He's won 3 and brought a title to Cleveland. He's a top 5ish player if he retired today, and he's still going strong. Talking heads say stupid stuff all the time to get you to watch.

BKLYNpigeon
03-05-2017, 01:15 PM
No, we have to stop measuring players by championships. It's a team effort.

He will own most statistical categories. He's played in the last 6 CONSECUTIVE NBA Finals. He's the best player in this generation and probably the best player right now. His legacy is well documented and cemented.

PhillyFaninLA
03-05-2017, 01:40 PM
I get this is a bait and troll topic and we are all taking the bait, but come on, really

Avenged
03-05-2017, 09:39 PM
Again? You are obsessed.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

FOXHOUND
03-05-2017, 09:53 PM
LeBron would probably have to rape someone in the middle of the court to ruin his legacy at this point. And I did say probably, not definitely.

mightybosstone
03-06-2017, 12:10 AM
According to Bruce Blitz,Mike Sowell,Mad Genuis and JesseGladSaget it will be i didnt say this crap. Go on YouTube and check it out.

I don't know these people, nor do I care about their ****** opinions. Everyone has an opinion. Not all of them are thread-worthy.

FlashBolt
03-06-2017, 12:28 AM
lebron can punt a baby from halfcourt and then dunk on the baby's mother and it still won't ruin his legacy. Dude has cemented his spot.. another Finals loss doesn't change that. Maybe I might see it if they lose because he goes back to the Dallas mavs choking Finals series again but other than that, you can't penalize a player when they already achieved so many great things.

JordansBulls
03-06-2017, 02:02 AM
What do you mean by ruined?

Meth
03-06-2017, 06:34 AM
At least be more creative when trying to troll. But to play along, yes, if and only if he loses to a team not named the Warriors or Spurs.

ewing
03-06-2017, 07:12 AM
he ruined it by by stacking the deck already.

FlashBolt
03-06-2017, 07:38 AM
he ruined it by by stacking the deck already.

Since he "stacked" his team, they were only favorites against the Mavs. Literally every other NBA Finals team James has played against since 2011 had a better overall roster.

OKC had Harden/Durant/Ibaka/Westbrook.
Spurs had Duncan/Kawhi/Parker/Gino and just a far superior coach.
Warriors had Curry/Klay/Green and an incredibly stacked bench.

I'm not sure which series was stacked. You're one of those guys who hold a certain individual to a standard and that's where your bias shows.

I will admit, however, that I think Cavs are stacked this season with their new acquisitions and should be the favorites for this season.

PowerHouse
03-06-2017, 09:10 AM
If by ruined you mean he wont go down as #1 all time then yes it will be ruined.

RocketLoc80
03-06-2017, 09:48 AM
No i mean overall

ewing
03-06-2017, 10:01 AM
Since he "stacked" his team, they were only favorites against the Mavs. Literally every other NBA Finals team James has played against since 2011 had a better overall roster.

OKC had Harden/Durant/Ibaka/Westbrook.
Spurs had Duncan/Kawhi/Parker/Gino and just a far superior coach.
Warriors had Curry/Klay/Green and an incredibly stacked bench.

I'm not sure which series was stacked. You're one of those guys who hold a certain individual to a standard and that's where your bias shows.

I will admit, however, that I think Cavs are stacked this season with their new acquisitions and should be the favorites for this season.

My bias??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RowBTrice
03-06-2017, 10:14 AM
It's already ruined.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2017, 11:20 AM
Yes. If he doesn't win another title, I can't possibly put him in the top 50 ever.

Sly Guy
03-06-2017, 11:40 AM
I don't like lebron and even I'm sick of this topic. jeeze

R. Johnson#3
03-06-2017, 12:05 PM
Yes it will be ruined. It will erase the other rings he's won and the consecutive finals appearances.

hugepatsfan
03-06-2017, 12:22 PM
He's a potential GOAT. I think the 6 straight appearances is prettier on paper than when you dive in though. What were the impressive runs to get there? Consistency is always impressive but I'm not really overly impressed by any of them individually (speaking of the path to the Finals, not the Finals themselves). He beat a BOS team on their last legs. IND I guess had some decent teams. CHI with a couple good years. TOR is alright. But really, of those 6 straight appearances, it'd be pretty inexcusable for him to not have made it. He had, without a doubt or any argument, the best team each of those years. So I'm not gonna go ga-ga over him making it to the finals those years.

ManRam
03-06-2017, 01:14 PM
Yes or No?

I don't know why I'm making an effort to legitimize this, but at the very least could you define "ruin".

Like, I assume you think little of him. So say he's your 12th best player ever...what would "ruining" that look like. Like, how far are you suggesting he falls.

Bron's in my top-5 ever. And I struggle to see how he moves down. He's 32 and still playing at an MVP level. He has an absurdly prolific Finals win now. What's he's done up to this point is rock solid. The foundation is uncrackable.

Now, let's say the Warriors fall apart, Kyrie and Kevin keep getting better, and the Cavs revert back to consensus Finals favorites. A couple hiccups and maybe he does get bumped down a spot or two...but that's worst case scenario and very unlikely.

Chronz
03-06-2017, 01:31 PM
He's a potential GOAT. I think the 6 straight appearances is prettier on paper than when you dive in though. What were the impressive runs to get there? Consistency is always impressive but I'm not really overly impressed by any of them individually (speaking of the path to the Finals, not the Finals themselves). He beat a BOS team on their last legs. IND I guess had some decent teams. CHI with a couple good years. TOR is alright. But really, of those 6 straight appearances, it'd be pretty inexcusable for him to not have made it. He had, without a doubt or any argument, the best team each of those years. So I'm not gonna go ga-ga over him making it to the finals those years.

You downplay the consistency argument IMO. Just about every great player has lost series that were pretty inexcusable except for MJ. Bron hasn't since Dallas and even then it was a Y1 experiment with absolutely no depth and top heavy as **** and still represented a Finals birth. Thats prolly a testament to Bron that his greatest failure was a Finals defeat when you have guys like KAJ, Bird, Magic losing to inferior teams before then, with their own bad stretches of play. Personally, why does no star want to come out East if it were so easy? Melo had the balls and he paid dearly for it.

Bostonjorge
03-06-2017, 02:01 PM
Let's see. Without a super team James has zero championships and only one final appearance. That's not very impressive at all. Sounds exactly like Durant to me.

Everyone said with help he would destroy the league like Jordan if he only had some help. Now he plays with super stack teams and has the easiest roads to the finals for the past 8 years. 3 rings is good but not Jordan or even Duncan level who had less help.

This year his team is just super stacked. Players like Barkley and Reggie Miller never even had half as much help as James has this year. I know the top 5 players ever with this Cavs team win the title this year.

FlashBolt
03-06-2017, 02:32 PM
Let's see. Without a super team James has zero championships and only one final appearance. That's not very impressive at all. Sounds exactly like Durant to me.

Everyone said with help he would destroy the league like Jordan if he only had some help. Now he plays with super stack teams and has the easiest roads to the finals for the past 8 years. 3 rings is good but not Jordan or even Duncan level who had less help.

This year his team is just super stacked. Players like Barkley and Reggie Miller never even had half as much help as James has this year. I know the top 5 players ever with this Cavs team win the title this year.

LMAO, you are totally lame.

1) What did you think the Bulls were? Jordan had the best years of his career statistically before he won those rings. The teams got better and by a wide margin.
2) Oh yeah, the same Durant who couldn't win with Russ, Harden, and Ibaka.. Same Durant who choked a 3-1 lead. You comparing LeBron to Durant is hysterical.
3) Jordan made the playoffs with a losing record.. Why are you trying to make it seem as if Jordan went through the Bird's Celtics or the BB Pistons? He played highly inferior teams. Knicks and Pacers were no better than the teams LeBron has faced.
4) Warriors are also super stacked.. how about you use some context?
5) Duncan had less help? You might want to reconsider that. Last I checked, Spurs are still dominating without Duncan and you might have heard of Manu and Tony Parker and Kawhi Leonard.. You know who Popovich is? You are hilarious.

Saddletramp
03-06-2017, 03:56 PM
^^^I wouldn't use the term hilarious.

Vee-Rex
03-06-2017, 04:05 PM
The more you guys actually discuss the topic, the more power and legitimacy you feed to the troll. You gotta find a way to restrain yourself.

AllBall
03-06-2017, 04:07 PM
Just the 1 championship in the forsaken sports town known as Cleveland alone puts him in legendary status.

Vee-Rex
03-06-2017, 04:14 PM
Just the 1 championship in the forsaken sports town known as Cleveland alone puts him in legendary status.

:shush:

hugepatsfan
03-06-2017, 04:26 PM
You downplay the consistency argument IMO. Just about every great player has lost series that were pretty inexcusable except for MJ. Bron hasn't since Dallas and even then it was a Y1 experiment with absolutely no depth and top heavy as **** and still represented a Finals birth. Thats prolly a testament to Bron that his greatest failure was a Finals defeat when you have guys like KAJ, Bird, Magic losing to inferior teams before then, with their own bad stretches of play. Personally, why does no star want to come out East if it were so easy? Melo had the balls and he paid dearly for it.

Oh don't get me wrong, the consistency is super impressive. Like you said, people slip up. And he hasn't (before the Finals). That's a credit to him. But you can't just ignore the quality of competition. On paper he should have beat DAL but didn't. On paper he should have lost last year but won. Other than that, looking back, it's just a bunch of what should have happened happening. It's impressive to a degree that he made it happen all those time with no slip ups

Going back to his first CLE stint, he had that amazing run to get to the Finals. But I'd say his last two exits (vs. ORL and BOS) were series he should have won but didn't. IDK, maybe it's revisionist history but I feel like the second and third tier teams that the Magic/Bird/Jordans went up against were A LOT better than what Lebron has. So I think the "OMG 6 straight" is a little bloated. That's all. It's still impressive of course.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2017, 04:36 PM
Oh don't get me wrong, the consistency is super impressive. Like you said, people slip up. And he hasn't (before the Finals). That's a credit to him. But you can't just ignore the quality of competition. On paper he should have beat DAL but didn't. On paper he should have lost last year but won. Other than that, looking back, it's just a bunch of what should have happened happening. It's impressive to a degree that he made it happen all those time with no slip ups

Going back to his first CLE stint, he had that amazing run to get to the Finals. But I'd say his last two exits (vs. ORL and BOS) were series he should have won but didn't. IDK, maybe it's revisionist history but I feel like the second and third tier teams that the Magic/Bird/Jordans went up against were A LOT better than what Lebron has. So I think the "OMG 6 straight" is a little bloated. That's all. It's still impressive of course.

thing is, outside MJ, you won't find a top 10 player that didn't lose to a lesser team, and play underwhelming.

Go look at what Magic really went against (the Lakers first round opponents were practices). We know Bird underperformed in some series where his team was favored and was knocked out.

I get what you are saying, but the fact is, outside MJ, they ALL have blemishes, and LeBron's is no worse at all.

Vee-Rex
03-06-2017, 04:46 PM
Oh don't get me wrong, the consistency is super impressive. Like you said, people slip up. And he hasn't (before the Finals). That's a credit to him. But you can't just ignore the quality of competition. On paper he should have beat DAL but didn't. On paper he should have lost last year but won. Other than that, looking back, it's just a bunch of what should have happened happening. It's impressive to a degree that he made it happen all those time with no slip ups

Going back to his first CLE stint, he had that amazing run to get to the Finals. But I'd say his last two exits (vs. ORL and BOS) were series he should have won but didn't. IDK, maybe it's revisionist history but I feel like the second and third tier teams that the Magic/Bird/Jordans went up against were A LOT better than what Lebron has. So I think the "OMG 6 straight" is a little bloated. That's all. It's still impressive of course.

I still feel that that Boston team was superior. They were clearly a better playoff team than regular season team and honestly should have won the finals if it wasn't for officiating.

That Orlando team was not necessarily better, but the matched up so perfectly. All of Cleveland's strengths were nullified.

Also you can't blame 'Bron at all for that Orlando series. He put up 38.5 Ppg/8 RBpg/8 Apg/4 TOpg on 49FG%.

Like, I remember the frustration of those Mike Brown teams in ways people just don't seem to know.

Forever35
03-06-2017, 04:59 PM
I'm amazed how this thread has 3 pages of posts...

LOb0
03-06-2017, 05:03 PM
You downplay the consistency argument IMO. Just about every great player has lost series that were pretty inexcusable except for MJ. Bron hasn't since Dallas and even then it was a Y1 experiment with absolutely no depth and top heavy as **** and still represented a Finals birth. Thats prolly a testament to Bron that his greatest failure was a Finals defeat when you have guys like KAJ, Bird, Magic losing to inferior teams before then, with their own bad stretches of play. Personally, why does no star want to come out East if it were so easy? Melo had the balls and he paid dearly for it.

Oh I beg to differ. The 2014 finals was a blemish. Not because they lost, as people often love to ignorantly point to.

Spurs are going on a run, Heat offense is stalling, bleeding needs to be stopped, LeBron gets the ball and....passes like its the 1st quarter on the opening play of the game. He did that over, and over. They needed offense and he went passive as the Spurs ran up the scoreboard. There's nothing wrong with losing to a better team but how you lose is how it should be measured.

LeBron was also guilty of this in the first 4 games against GS last season. He's passing the ball around so much that Magic Johnson of all people is on TV yelling at LeBron to stop passing the damn ball and score. I was disgusted, then we got games 5 and 6, where he's aggressive again.

D Blue987
03-06-2017, 05:14 PM
He's a potential GOAT. I think the 6 straight appearances is prettier on paper than when you dive in though. What were the impressive runs to get there? Consistency is always impressive but I'm not really overly impressed by any of them individually (speaking of the path to the Finals, not the Finals themselves). He beat a BOS team on their last legs. IND I guess had some decent teams. CHI with a couple good years. TOR is alright. But really, of those 6 straight appearances, it'd be pretty inexcusable for him to not have made it. He had, without a doubt or any argument, the best team each of those years. So I'm not gonna go ga-ga over him making it to the finals those years.

Last years finals was impressive for sure. He beat the best regular season team in history by record with Kyrie really being his "Scottie Pippen" type. The ones in Miami dont nearly carry the same weight as his championship last year because he went there to form a big 3 in FA to get past the Celtics which he couldn't do in Cle and the East in those years was especially weak after the Celtics started to decline. There were some teams in the East that finished with a better regular season record than the Heat did a few years like the Pacers in 2013 and Hawks in 2014 but there really wasn't any way those teams could match the star power the Heat had in those years come playoff time. The guy will still go down as a top 5 player in the NBA though and he still might not be done collecting rings. We will see.

valade16
03-06-2017, 05:36 PM
If we're going to use the argument that LeBron should have made 6 straight finals because he has the best team, then doesn't that argument apply to other NBA greats?

Magic and the Lakers lost in the 1st Round in 1981 to the 40-42 Lakers, the 1986 Rockets in the WCF, and the 1990 Phoenix Suns.

By that measure, isn't LeBron making 6 straight Finals more impressive than Magic making 9 Finals because he had the best team every year in the West?

Hawkeye15
03-06-2017, 05:53 PM
Oh I beg to differ. The 2014 finals was a blemish. Not because they lost, as people often love to ignorantly point to.

Spurs are going on a run, Heat offense is stalling, bleeding needs to be stopped, LeBron gets the ball and....passes like its the 1st quarter on the opening play of the game. He did that over, and over. They needed offense and he went passive as the Spurs ran up the scoreboard. There's nothing wrong with losing to a better team but how you lose is how it should be measured.

LeBron was also guilty of this in the first 4 games against GS last season. He's passing the ball around so much that Magic Johnson of all people is on TV yelling at LeBron to stop passing the damn ball and score. I was disgusted, then we got games 5 and 6, where he's aggressive again.

absolutely disagree. After game 3 against the Mavs, I am not confident in any team in history beating the 2014 playoff Spurs. They were near perfection in my opinion.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2017, 05:53 PM
If we're going to use the argument that LeBron should have made 6 straight finals because he has the best team, then doesn't that argument apply to other NBA greats?

Magic and the Lakers lost in the 1st Round in 1981 to the 40-42 Lakers, the 1986 Rockets in the WCF, and the 1990 Phoenix Suns.

By that measure, isn't LeBron making 6 straight Finals more impressive than Magic making 9 Finals because he had the best team every year in the West?

nope, we can't point that out, it doesn't fit the PSD narrative.

Pure example:

I get how young this site is, but are people actually familiar with the records of the team the Lakers played during the 80's? It was a practice run for later in the playoffs, nothing more. And they actually lost to a sub .500 team, as you pointed out. Hell, in 1984, the Lakers ENTIRE western conference run went against teams that were 122-124. Their first round opponent in 1985 was 10 games UNDER .500. Their first opponent in 1985 was 12 games UNDER .500. They saw one winning team in their 1987 western conference run. Their first opponent in 1988 was 20 games UNDER .500.

The Lakers were hard pressed to play any team with more than 50 wins until the finals...

But hey, Magic is untouchable, right?

valade16
03-06-2017, 06:37 PM
nope, we can't point that out, it doesn't fit the PSD narrative.

Pure example:

I get how young this site is, but are people actually familiar with the records of the team the Lakers played during the 80's? It was a practice run for later in the playoffs, nothing more. And they actually lost to a sub .500 team, as you pointed out. Hell, in 1984, the Lakers ENTIRE western conference run went against teams that were 122-124. Their first round opponent in 1985 was 10 games UNDER .500. Their first opponent in 1985 was 12 games UNDER .500. They saw one winning team in their 1987 western conference run. Their first opponent in 1988 was 20 games UNDER .500.

The Lakers were hard pressed to play any team with more than 50 wins until the finals...

But hey, Magic is untouchable, right?

What's funny is simply trying to name another good team in the West in the 80's. You can't do it lol. The Rockets for the brief run they had Hakeem and Sampson were literally the only other team in the West during the 80's you can say was even good lol.

IndyRealist
03-06-2017, 06:41 PM
This is a nonsense question. The real question is what would it take to ruin Lebron's legacy? Documented PED use since high school? Leaving Cleveland again? For Golden State? Sextape with a minor? With a gerbil? What would it take?

LOb0
03-06-2017, 06:48 PM
absolutely disagree. After game 3 against the Mavs, I am not confident in any team in history beating the 2014 playoff Spurs. They were near perfection in my opinion.

That's not my issue. My issue was how LeBron was just standing there as the team desperately needed points and he's passing to Mario Chalmers.

That's not to say he didn't put up stats....after the Spurs would go on some crazy run and it was too late. If no one else is scoring and you're the best player, you should be trying to keep the game close.

He did the same thing last year vs The warriors in the first 4 games. Would you of given him a pass then and just said "Oh they won 73 and were unbeatable" No because he was playing like a punk until game 5 and 6.

HandsOnTheWheel
03-06-2017, 06:59 PM
No.

hugepatsfan
03-06-2017, 09:21 PM
If we're going to use the argument that LeBron should have made 6 straight finals because he has the best team, then doesn't that argument apply to other NBA greats?

Magic and the Lakers lost in the 1st Round in 1981 to the 40-42 Lakers, the 1986 Rockets in the WCF, and the 1990 Phoenix Suns.

By that measure, isn't LeBron making 6 straight Finals more impressive than Magic making 9 Finals because he had the best team every year in the West?

This is fair. I guess when I think back to the 80s all the good teams were in the East. I think of when you had the Bird Celtics, young MJ Bulls and Bad Boy Pistons all in the same conference, it'd be unfair to expect the same type of run Lebron had. That's all I'm saying. You make a good comparison with Magic's road though.

It's the same thing with the Russell Celtics beating up on a weak league. Those long runs are obviously impressive but you can't just ignore the factors that they had in their favor compared to other guys. I can't just throw out that Russell won so many titles without qualifying it with the easier circumstances. Same for LBJ and as you showed Magic.

JAZZNC
03-06-2017, 09:50 PM
Let's see. Without a super team James has zero championships and only one final appearance. That's not very impressive at all. Sounds exactly like Durant to me.

Everyone said with help he would destroy the league like Jordan if he only had some help. Now he plays with super stack teams and has the easiest roads to the finals for the past 8 years. 3 rings is good but not Jordan or even Duncan level who had less help.

This year his team is just super stacked. Players like Barkley and Reggie Miller never even had half as much help as James has this year. I know the top 5 players ever with this Cavs team win the title this year.

I love how people think Jordan did it on his own. You know that their 6th man could have been the Jazz's 3rd best player in those finals series. Jordan had extremely stacked teams.

GREATNESS ONE
03-06-2017, 09:57 PM
I love how people think Jordan did it on his own. You know that their 6th man could have been the Jazz's 3rd best player in those finals series. Jordan had extremely stacked teams.

He is right you know. So which 3 peat are you talking about or are you only speaking of the two years they played the Jazz?

GREATNESS ONE
03-06-2017, 10:01 PM
I love how people think Jordan did it on his own. You know that their 6th man could have been the Jazz's 3rd best player in those finals series. Jordan had extremely stacked teams.

If you're talking only the two times they played the Jazz... Rodman... you're most likely right but players like Hornacek, Ostertag and Russell weren't really bad players.

valade16
03-07-2017, 12:40 AM
This is fair. I guess when I think back to the 80s all the good teams were in the East. I think of when you had the Bird Celtics, young MJ Bulls and Bad Boy Pistons all in the same conference, it'd be unfair to expect the same type of run Lebron had. That's all I'm saying. You make a good comparison with Magic's road though.

It's the same thing with the Russell Celtics beating up on a weak league. Those long runs are obviously impressive but you can't just ignore the factors that they had in their favor compared to other guys. I can't just throw out that Russell won so many titles without qualifying it with the easier circumstances. Same for LBJ and as you showed Magic.

What's funny is that while the East was way more stacked than the West in the 80's it wasn't all that deep either only because the Celtics biggest competition all peaked at different times. The 76ers peaked in the early 80's, the Bucks in the mid-80's and the Pistons in the late 80's.

GoferKing_
03-07-2017, 02:24 AM
What "Legacy"? Dude, it is already ruined thanks to "The Decision".

Hawkeye15
03-07-2017, 10:28 AM
That's not my issue. My issue was how LeBron was just standing there as the team desperately needed points and he's passing to Mario Chalmers.

That's not to say he didn't put up stats....after the Spurs would go on some crazy run and it was too late. If no one else is scoring and you're the best player, you should be trying to keep the game close.

He did the same thing last year vs The warriors in the first 4 games. Would you of given him a pass then and just said "Oh they won 73 and were unbeatable" No because he was playing like a punk until game 5 and 6.

Not sure what series you were watching. I don't see the same things you do. Example-everyone talks about Ray Allen's jumper saving the Heat. Um, no. LeBron going nova to close the gap in score in the 4th quarter put them in position to even be in the game. His 2014 run was incredible. You can bring up his first few games against GS last year, but he closed out the series playing at a level only a few have ever reached.

If you expect LeBron to dominate every series, every game, than you expect him to do something nobody has ever done.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2017, 10:32 AM
What's funny is simply trying to name another good team in the West in the 80's. You can't do it lol. The Rockets for the brief run they had Hakeem and Sampson were literally the only other team in the West during the 80's you can say was even good lol.

exactly. The west, in the 80's, for all intensive purposes, was even weaker than the east the last decade. I really don't think people even bother and educate themselves to the older days, they just run with the narrative.

Hell, anyone hell bent on discrediting LeBron for his competition, better not have Russell or Magic rated all that high..

eDush
03-07-2017, 11:50 AM
That's not my issue. My issue was how LeBron was just standing there as the team desperately needed points and he's passing to Mario Chalmers.

That's not to say he didn't put up stats....after the Spurs would go on some crazy run and it was too late. If no one else is scoring and you're the best player, you should be trying to keep the game close.

He did the same thing last year vs The warriors in the first 4 games. Would you of given him a pass then and just said "Oh they won 73 and were unbeatable" No because he was playing like a punk until game 5 and 6.

Not sure what series you were watching. I don't see the same things you do. Example-everyone talks about Ray Allen's jumper saving the Heat. Um, no. LeBron going nova to close the gap in score in the 4th quarter put them in position to even be in the game. His 2014 run was incredible. You can bring up his first few games against GS last year, but he closed out the series playing at a level only a few have ever reached.

If you expect LeBron to dominate every series, every game, than you expect him to do something nobody has ever done.Ray's jumper did save the Heat otherwise they would have one less trophy to show for it. Lebron should have bought him a bling SUV like Brady gave Malcolm his MVP winning Colorado all bling up.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2017, 12:17 PM
Ray's jumper did save the Heat otherwise they would have one less trophy to show for it. Lebron should have bought him a bling SUV like Brady gave Malcolm his MVP winning Colorado all bling up.

Miami wouldn't have even been in the game had LeBron not scored 14, and assisted directly on 6 more of the 27 points in the quarter. He basically brought Miami back from 7 down entering the quarter and put them in a position to compete.

I hope you give the same credit to Horry against the Kings, and Kerr against the Jazz, and discredit Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, and Pippen just the same?

LOb0
03-07-2017, 01:32 PM
Not sure what series you were watching. I don't see the same things you do. Example-everyone talks about Ray Allen's jumper saving the Heat. Um, no. LeBron going nova to close the gap in score in the 4th quarter put them in position to even be in the game. His 2014 run was incredible. You can bring up his first few games against GS last year, but he closed out the series playing at a level only a few have ever reached.

If you expect LeBron to dominate every series, every game, than you expect him to do something nobody has ever done.

Why are you bringing up the Ray shot? I said 2014. Did I expect the Spurs to win that series in 5? I sure did. Did I expect LeBron to stand there and watch as the Heat desperately needed someone to score the ball? No.

Losing isn't a negative to a better team, not doing everything you can is.

ewing
03-07-2017, 01:38 PM
Miami wouldn't have even been in the game had LeBron not scored 14, and assisted directly on 6 more of the 27 points in the quarter. He basically brought Miami back from 7 down entering the quarter and put them in a position to compete.

I hope you give the same credit to Horry against the Kings, and Kerr against the Jazz, and discredit Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, and Pippen just the same?

James ended that series very strong. He started it weak and was lucky to escape with a title. The heat needed a lot of breaks including a Tony Parker hamstring injury to get out with that title.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2017, 01:41 PM
Why are you bringing up the Ray shot? I said 2014. Did I expect the Spurs to win that series in 5? I sure did. Did I expect LeBron to stand there and watch as the Heat desperately needed someone to score the ball? No.

Losing isn't a negative to a better team, not doing everything you can is.

Spurs basically walled up around LeBron and forced anyone else to harm them. It didn't happen.

That was about when Leonard was morphing into a defensive force as well.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2017, 01:41 PM
James ended that series very strong. He started it weak and was lucky to escape with a title. The heat needed a lot of breaks including a Tony Parker hamstring injury to get out with that title.

to be fair, every title team needed breaks. That is kind of how you win a title. Be really good, and be a little lucky. GS's title came at the expense of Love/Irving gonzo. So?

Again, if we expect all timers to be nova-dominant each and every game, the list goes to nearly 0 for non-blemishes.

ewing
03-07-2017, 01:45 PM
to be fair, every title team needed breaks. That is kind of how you win a title. Be really good, and be a little lucky. GS's title came at the expense of Love/Irving gonzo. So?

Again, if we expect all timers to be nova-dominant each and every game, the list goes to nearly 0 for non-blemishes.


I agree 100% about GS. The Injuries gave them what should have been a cake walk. They got very very lucky. I think the Heat got a little extra lucky that year too. They were on their way down if Tony doesn't get hurt.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2017, 01:48 PM
I agree 100% about GS. The Injuries gave them what should have been a cake walk. They got very very lucky. I think the Heat got a little extra lucky that year too. They were on their way down if Tony doesn't get hurt.

Oh for sure.

In reality, nearly ever chip team got breaks along the way. It is so hard to win a championship, you just need to be the last one standing really.

europagnpilgrim
03-07-2017, 01:54 PM
people don't seem to realize how hard it is to win titles in any sport with or without a stacked team

and no Lebron legacy wont be hurt or ruined or tainted because he has displayed his game since he entered the league and by 07' he cemented his stamp on the game and was in talks of being one of the best to ever play

nobody career is tainted if they showcase a dominant stretch for 10+yrs in any sport, Lebron has taken a team that wasn't supposed to go to Finals and also has appeared In 6 straight when they were supposed to go, if that isn't proving his worth/value/dominance then I don't know what is

its like saying if Deion or Barry Sanders(who didn't win a ring) didn't win a ring they wouldn't be considered 2 of the best players ever in the NFL, that's pure non sense and I use the same scale across the board for all players involved, regardless the sport

Jeter is not better than Bonds with 5 rings nor is Bonds legacy tainted because he doesn't have a baseball ring, it was only a few times his team were legit contenders in his career and the other times they had a punchers chance to do anything was because of Bonds, a testament to his baseball impact/dominance, same way I look at Lebron and the rest

nastynice
03-07-2017, 07:31 PM
If lebron doesn't get at least one threapeat in his whole career, then without a doubt his legacy is ruined. Even Kobe has a three peat

europagnpilgrim
03-07-2017, 08:25 PM
If lebron doesn't get at least one threapeat in his whole career, then without a doubt his legacy is ruined. Even Kobe has a three peat

so does Fisher/Horry and those players from Russell's 8peat team have that but that doesn't mean jack when comparing to actual players who are better overall throughout the life of their nba careers

you wouldn't take Horry over Barkley or either Malones nor would you take Fisher over Nash/Zeke/Iverson, hell Kerr I believe 4peated from Bulls to Spurs and won like 5 rings but he isn't better than no 6th man of the year that has won the award, Jordan didn't even 4peat

Jordan having 2 three peats didn't up his legacy, to me when Bird said he was God disguised as Jordan put him in the discussion as one of the best ever, dude was unstoppable pretty much outside of playing that Bad boys squad

Duncan doesn't have a 3peat

quick reaching for straws

Chronz
03-07-2017, 09:53 PM
Oh don't get me wrong, the consistency is super impressive. Like you said, people slip up. And he hasn't (before the Finals). That's a credit to him. But you can't just ignore the quality of competition. On paper he should have beat DAL but didn't. On paper he should have lost last year but won. Other than that, looking back, it's just a bunch of what should have happened happening. It's impressive to a degree that he made it happen all those time with no slip ups

Going back to his first CLE stint, he had that amazing run to get to the Finals. But I'd say his last two exits (vs. ORL and BOS) were series he should have won but didn't. IDK, maybe it's revisionist history but I feel like the second and third tier teams that the Magic/Bird/Jordans went up against were A LOT better than what Lebron has. So I think the "OMG 6 straight" is a little bloated. That's all. It's still impressive of course.
I dont think Im ignoring it, just putting it into perspective, that others have failed harder. Consider that KAJ lost in R.1 (IIRC) and was locked down in his prime far sooner than the Final playoff round. Magic lost to a sub .500 squad AND to an injured Rockets team and those were basically the only teams that stood a chance to topple the Lakers. Bron doesn't need much help to make the Finals IMO, I mean he basically murdered the 60 win Hawks without Love and with Kyrie hurting. Birds faced some great teams but I dont know if the Bucks rank that highly. Not everyone loses in that fashion but it can happen to the best of them.

I dont know about ur 2nd paragraph at all, I thought Bron went nova but Cleveland lacked the ability to defend Dwight(they were the only playoff opponent he was capable of feasting upon), hard for him to do much more IMO.

Boston was the better team and Cleveland was in disarray trying to figure out how to acclimate Shaq and Antawn at the last minute thanks to injuries.



I still feel that that Boston team was superior. They were clearly a better playoff team than regular season team and honestly should have won the finals if it wasn't for officiating.

That Orlando team was not necessarily better, but the matched up so perfectly. All of Cleveland's strengths were nullified.

Also you can't blame 'Bron at all for that Orlando series. He put up 38.5 Ppg/8 RBpg/8 Apg/4 TOpg on 49FG%.

Like, I remember the frustration of those Mike Brown teams in ways people just don't seem to know.
You guys got Shaq to match up with Dwight only for him to be something of an Achilles heel all year and particularly against Boston.


Oh I beg to differ. The 2014 finals was a blemish. Not because they lost, as people often love to ignorantly point to.

Spurs are going on a run, Heat offense is stalling, bleeding needs to be stopped, LeBron gets the ball and....passes like its the 1st quarter on the opening play of the game. He did that over, and over. They needed offense and he went passive as the Spurs ran up the scoreboard. There's nothing wrong with losing to a better team but how you lose is how it should be measured.

LeBron was also guilty of this in the first 4 games against GS last season. He's passing the ball around so much that Magic Johnson of all people is on TV yelling at LeBron to stop passing the damn ball and score. I was disgusted, then we got games 5 and 6, where he's aggressive again.
Even if we agreed I think theres a big difference from that series to the Dallas one. I disagree with you tho, that team was decaying, he got no help from those big names and I remember him going all out in the Final game trying to carry them only for the team to gain no separation either way. Truly great team basketball from the Spurs there.

I dont hold Bron to these weird standards, I just think he struggles in different ways than whomever you are comparing him to. I think he makes in series adjustments based on his approach and what he sees, sometimes it just doesn't work.

nastynice
03-08-2017, 05:29 AM
so does Fisher/Horry and those players from Russell's 8peat team have that but that doesn't mean jack when comparing to actual players who are better overall throughout the life of their nba careers

you wouldn't take Horry over Barkley or either Malones nor would you take Fisher over Nash/Zeke/Iverson, hell Kerr I believe 4peated from Bulls to Spurs and won like 5 rings but he isn't better than no 6th man of the year that has won the award, Jordan didn't even 4peat

Jordan having 2 three peats didn't up his legacy, to me when Bird said he was God disguised as Jordan put him in the discussion as one of the best ever, dude was unstoppable pretty much outside of playing that Bad boys squad

Duncan doesn't have a 3peat

quick reaching for straws

If Horry gives me a 3 peat, while lebron gives me a 2 peat, then I'm going Horry all day.


I just be playin bro, I was just kinda trolling that first post you replied to. Lebron is already imo in that Jordan/Shaq category, he can retire tomorrow and I'm pretty sure I'd still keep him there.

JordansBulls
03-11-2017, 12:55 AM
That's not my issue. My issue was how LeBron was just standing there as the team desperately needed points and he's passing to Mario Chalmers.

That's not to say he didn't put up stats....after the Spurs would go on some crazy run and it was too late. If no one else is scoring and you're the best player, you should be trying to keep the game close.

He did the same thing last year vs The warriors in the first 4 games. Would you of given him a pass then and just said "Oh they won 73 and were unbeatable" No because he was playing like a punk until game 5 and 6.

Good post!! He was playing bad for the most part. The suspension changed things because a 6'7" player was the tallest guy on the floor.

mightybosstone
03-11-2017, 12:58 AM
Good post!! He was playing bad for the most part. The suspension changed things because a 6'7" player was the tallest guy on the floor.

Remember at the start of the season when you were convinced the Bulls would win the title? How's that working out for you?

JordansBulls
03-11-2017, 01:40 AM
Remember at the start of the season when you were convinced the Bulls would win the title? How's that working out for you?

Don't hijack thread bro.

We whooped up Cleveland 3 times already. They fear us and Bron wants no part of Jimmy.

Also This is why I said Boylan was an ***. It was after the Cleveland game and Wade missed and Rondo got into it with him.

mightybosstone
03-11-2017, 09:37 AM
Don't hijack thread bro.

We whooped up Cleveland 3 times already. They fear us and Bron wants no part of Jimmy.

Also This is why I said Boylan was an ***. It was after the Cleveland game and Wade missed and Rondo got into it with him.
They have to actually make the playoffs first. Also, I'm sorry, but when you make a completely ridiculous statement like that, you need to be called out on your ********. If I had said "The Rockets are going to win 70 games this year!" and they don't, then I expect someone to give me hell for it. And that's not even as ridiculous as your proclamation.

Tg11
03-11-2017, 01:43 PM
LeBron his legacy is already cemented anyway whether he wins more titles or not I mean the man already has 3 but if he wants to get to Kobe, Jordan, Duncan level then LeBron is going to need to win more titles but if he doesn't I wouldn't say his legacy is ruined

Vee-Rex
03-11-2017, 02:10 PM
Don't hijack thread bro.

We whooped up Cleveland 3 times already. They fear us and Bron wants no part of Jimmy.

Also This is why I said Boylan was an ***. It was after the Cleveland game and Wade missed and Rondo got into it with him.

We fear you as much as we feared Detroit and Toronto last year (hint: both whooped us in the regular season).

prodigy
03-11-2017, 02:19 PM
The ways people find to hate is insane. The fact LeBron can almost single handily dominate games, The fact he is great at almost everything scoring, rebounding, passing, defense(not so much this season). He's even become a pretty good 3pt shooter. 3 titles 7 finals appearances. man...

If LeBron is not in ur top 5 of all-time you either just have a insane level of hate for LeBron or don't know basketball. I do believe he's the best player to ever touch a basketball, But I understand peoples Love for Jordan so I won't argue that.

I know people will say I'm a LeBron homer, sure I like him. But he's never been my fav cavs player on any team lol. I just understand what this man can do.

prodigy
03-11-2017, 02:21 PM
Don't hijack thread bro.

We whooped up Cleveland 3 times already. They fear us and Bron wants no part of Jimmy.

Also This is why I said Boylan was an ***. It was after the Cleveland game and Wade missed and Rondo got into it with him.

The most sad part is you really believe this. Bless you child.

SteBO
03-11-2017, 02:31 PM
Don't hijack thread bro.

We whooped up Cleveland 3 times already. They fear us and Bron wants no part of Jimmy.

Also This is why I said Boylan was an ***. It was after the Cleveland game and Wade missed and Rondo got into it with him.
This brings me back....(2011 ECF to be exact). I'm almost positive you were spouting this same rhetoric back then, and you guys had a much better team then.

ManRam
03-11-2017, 02:40 PM
This brings me back....(2011 ECF to be exact). I'm almost positive you were spouting this same rhetoric back then, and you guys had a much better team then.

:nod:

If I had a nickel for every time a Bulls fan on PSD told me they'd beat a LeBron-led team in the playoffs...

LOb0
03-11-2017, 03:22 PM
:nod:

If I had a nickel for every time a Bulls fan on PSD told me they'd beat a LeBron-led team in the playoffs...

Even when I was against Bron I knew those Bulls team, no matter how close they got were never going to beat a LeBron team.

Bostonjorge
03-11-2017, 05:26 PM
The ways people find to hate is insane. The fact LeBron can almost single handily dominate games, The fact he is great at almost everything scoring, rebounding, passing, defense(not so much this season). He's even become a pretty good 3pt shooter. 3 titles 7 finals appearances. man...

If LeBron is not in ur top 5 of all-time you either just have a insane level of hate for LeBron or don't know basketball. I do believe he's the best player to ever touch a basketball, But I understand peoples Love for Jordan so I won't argue that.

I know people will say I'm a LeBron homer, sure I like him. But he's never been my fav cavs player on any team lol. I just understand what this man can do.

This is the thing. Everyone on the top 5 players have more then 3 rings. Only James fans count second place(final appearance with a loss)and use it as another way to build him up.

If James is the best then why without a super team he only has 1 final appearances and no rings? He also has had a super team longer then any player ever and only has 3 rings. He got all his stats in the weakest eastern conference era in history. He can dominate games but we seen that by many greats and border line greats.

People who "know basketball" also factor in the legendary fail by James which made a name for it self as the "choke job". When he quit and when he was humiliated by San Antonio. Some don't ignore history like others do.

ManRam
03-11-2017, 05:29 PM
This is the thing. Everyone on the top 5 players have more then 3 rings. Only James fans count second place(final appearance with a loss)and use it as another way to build him up.

If James is the best then why without a super team he only has 1 final appearances and no rings? He also has had a super team longer then any player ever and only has 3 rings. He got all his stats in the weakest eastern conference era in history. He can dominate games but we seen that by many greats and border line greats.

People who "know basketball" also factor in the legendary fail by James which made a name for it self as the "choke job". When he quit and when he was humiliated by San Antonio. Some don't ignore history like others do.

Who are your top-5? Let's start this stupid RINGZ discussion there.

prodigy
03-11-2017, 05:54 PM
This is the thing. Everyone on the top 5 players have more then 3 rings. Only James fans count second place(final appearance with a loss)and use it as another way to build him up.

If James is the best then why without a super team he only has 1 final appearances and no rings? He also has had a super team longer then any player ever and only has 3 rings. He got all his stats in the weakest eastern conference era in history. He can dominate games but we seen that by many greats and border line greats.

People who "know basketball" also factor in the legendary fail by James which made a name for it self as the "choke job". When he quit and when he was humiliated by San Antonio. Some don't ignore history like others do.

LMAO!! at the first part.

second, lebron plays against everyone not just the east lol. look at this past finals. just stop...

how do you choke losing 4 straight to a great spurs team when ur next best player was big Z with bolts all through his feet lol.

Avenged
03-16-2017, 01:38 PM
don't hijack thread bro.

We whooped up cleveland 3 times already. They fear us and bron wants no part of jimmy.

Also this is why i said boylan was an ***. It was after the cleveland game and wade missed and rondo got into it with him.

hca.

Chronz
03-16-2017, 01:59 PM
This is the thing. Everyone on the top 5 players have more then 3 rings. Only James fans count second place(final appearance with a loss)and use it as another way to build him up.

If James is the best then why without a super team he only has 1 final appearances and no rings? He also has had a super team longer then any player ever and only has 3 rings. He got all his stats in the weakest eastern conference era in history. He can dominate games but we seen that by many greats and border line greats.

People who "know basketball" also factor in the legendary fail by James which made a name for it self as the "choke job". When he quit and when he was humiliated by San Antonio. Some don't ignore history like others do.
You ignore the guys like Hondo who have won more than just about everyone and dont even scratch most top-20's. Wilt won 2 and is in many top-5's, sometimes you just have to stop and recognize game.

I mean, is anyone stupid enough to think Elvin Hayes is better than the ringless Karl Malone/Chuck?

Hawkeye15
03-17-2017, 01:01 PM
This is the thing. Everyone on the top 5 players have more then 3 rings. Only James fans count second place(final appearance with a loss)and use it as another way to build him up.

If James is the best then why without a super team he only has 1 final appearances and no rings? He also has had a super team longer then any player ever and only has 3 rings. He got all his stats in the weakest eastern conference era in history. He can dominate games but we seen that by many greats and border line greats.

People who "know basketball" also factor in the legendary fail by James which made a name for it self as the "choke job". When he quit and when he was humiliated by San Antonio. Some don't ignore history like others do.

Wilt only had 2 chips, and only 1 Finals MVP. LeBron had as many finals MVP's as Duncan, Shaq, and more than Jabbar. Those are really the only players you can talk about as his peers at this point, if we are leaving Jordan alone.

People who "know basketball" is very ironic coming from you.

Btw, you love to bring up the eastern conference during LeBron's run. You, being a Lakers fan, should go check out what Magic faced out west during his career. I would imagine you aren't old enough, but you can look it up. It was a joke what he went up against throughout the 80's in the west playoffs.

FlashBolt
03-17-2017, 02:00 PM
By default, moving LeBron to the Western Conference would mean he would have better teammates and though less Finals appearances, he very may would be undefeated in the Finals. You guys just can't have it both ways. The fact is, LeBron makes his team infinitely better regardless of which team it is. That value cannot be debated.