PDA

View Full Version : Aren't the Warriors in impending cap hell next season?



LOb0
03-03-2017, 04:32 PM
Cap is going to be at around 102 million next season, they have to sign Curry to a Super max which is going to be 42 million a year, Durant will be allowed to go for 36 million a year. Bringing the cap number to 112 million just for Klay, Steph, Draymon, and KD. Even if KD took only his player option for next season at 27 they'd still be over. They'd lose Livingston, Iggy, and anyone else unwilling to sign for the minimum.

Unless massive paycuts are willing for Curry and Durant this these 4 can't play together next season and Curry has already been vastly underpaid for years. How are they pulling this off?

Hawkeye15
03-03-2017, 04:42 PM
they could easily flip Klay to a team with a lot of space to absorb his deal for picks/expiring contracts if they want to save money. But they won't be a repeat LT offender for an extra year, so why not try and go with it one more time with those main 4 as the core?

More-Than-Most
03-03-2017, 04:46 PM
they could easily flip Klay to a team with a lot of space to absorb his deal for picks/expiring contracts if they want to save money. But they won't be a repeat LT offender for an extra year, so why not try and go with it one more time with those main 4 as the core?

because the sixers deserve klay and will give them a nice package for him :nod:

Next years lakers first plus a future first of ours... plus okafor or Holmes and a TLC :nod:

LOb0
03-03-2017, 04:47 PM
they could easily flip Klay to a team with a lot of space to absorb his deal for picks/expiring contracts if they want to save money. But they won't be a repeat LT offender for an extra year, so why not try and go with it one more time with those main 4 as the core?

The point is they can't sign all 4 of them at all next season without the players deciding to take far less. Has nothing to do with the tax.

More-Than-Most
03-03-2017, 04:53 PM
The point is they can't sign all 4 of them at all next season without the players deciding to take far less. Has nothing to do with the tax.

sure they can... they can go well over the luxury tax for their own players... they wont but they easily could. Unless I am missing something.

LOb0
03-03-2017, 04:55 PM
sure they can... they can go well over the luxury tax for their own players... they wont but they easily could. Unless I am missing something.

You are, they don't have Durant's bird rights meaning they can't go over the cap to resign him.

mudvayne387
03-03-2017, 04:58 PM
If everything goes smooth this year and they win the title then I believe they will take less than max deals. A team of Curry, Thompson, Durant, Green and 11 vet min players is still better than any other roster in the league. Add in the fact that you'll still get the "ring chasers" who will sign for the min.

If they lose however, that may be a different story. IMO Green is the odd man out.

Hawkeye15
03-03-2017, 05:03 PM
The point is they can't sign all 4 of them at all next season without the players deciding to take far less. Has nothing to do with the tax.

doesn't this apply to Durant?

Non-Bird exception[edit]

"Non-qualifying free agents" (those who do not qualify under either the Larry Bird exception or the early Bird exception) are subject to the non-Bird exception. Under this exception, teams can re-sign a player to a contract beginning at either 120% of his salary for the previous season, or 120% of the league's minimum salary, whichever amount is higher. Contracts signed under the Non-Bird exception can last up to four years (down from six under the 2005 CBA).

hugepatsfan
03-03-2017, 05:09 PM
Durant to the Celtics this offseason!

More-Than-Most
03-03-2017, 05:10 PM
You are, they don't have Durant's bird rights meaning they can't go over the cap to resign him.

sign him first... then go ham with curry :nod:

I wonder if that is allowed lol

LOb0
03-03-2017, 05:18 PM
doesn't this apply to Durant?

Non-Bird exception[edit]

"Non-qualifying free agents" (those who do not qualify under either the Larry Bird exception or the early Bird exception) are subject to the non-Bird exception. Under this exception, teams can re-sign a player to a contract beginning at either 120% of his salary for the previous season, or 120% of the league's minimum salary, whichever amount is higher. Contracts signed under the Non-Bird exception can last up to four years (down from six under the 2005 CBA).

You're right. So Durant would have to give up about 6 million dollars next season. I guess that's do able.

tredigs
03-03-2017, 05:26 PM
This has all been broken down before, but the long story is that KD will have to take slightly less next year before he gets the super-max (as in take 31 mil next year instead of 35 or so) if they want a chance to retain Iggy and Livingston. They're a printing press money wise so going into the luxury tax for a year or two won't be of concern to them if it means keeping the big 4 (that take echoed by ownership). They can also look to make a Klay trade a couple years down the line to lessen the blow. Highly possible they no longer will want Iggy after this season though (he is certainly on his last legs, and an improving McCaw on his rookie deal may make that easier).

All in all, if the players want to stay, they can all stay (and be filthy rich with both salaries and being on the most popular team in the league who is the favorite to win multiple titles). Bench wise, they'll have to rely on ring-chasers and rookie contracts on top of an MLE, etc. Myers is an absolute beast when it comes to this minutia, he'll figure it out.

Hawkeye15
03-03-2017, 05:31 PM
You're right. So Durant would have to give up about 6 million dollars next season. I guess that's do able.

yeah I mean he left OKC, so he was clearly willing to take less at this point of his career.

Look, they will struggle to keep all 4, long term. In order to do so, they will get crushed by the LT. But, they still have this year, and next, before they even need to sweat making a tough decision on who to move.

More-Than-Most
03-03-2017, 05:39 PM
Endorsements alone will make up for the 6 mill loss though... What about tax? Legit asking because the warriors tax must be huge

More-Than-Most
03-03-2017, 05:40 PM
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/07/signing-for-golden-state-will-cost-kevin-durant-an-absurd-amount-in-taxes

yea he clearly will take less at this point in all honesty... He will do anything for a ring

TrueFan420
03-03-2017, 06:50 PM
sign him first... then go ham with curry :nod:

I wonder if that is allowed lol

Not only is it allowed it's what will happen. They will have to give up the bird rights on the rest of the FA's so iggy and Shawn will walk unless they come back from vet min. Shawn prop walks. Iggy returns on min.

FlashBolt
03-03-2017, 06:54 PM
i'm not sure you want Klay on your team unless you have a guy like LeBron, Westbrook, etc., who can carry a huge load. This dude is not as good as some of you seem to make it. He's very easy to defend and lacks any other skill besides scoring. His defense is only good because that's literally all they need him to do. the weak SG position is the only reason Klay gets so much respect outside of him being on a stacked team. Could you imagine this guy as a 1st option? Remember when they said he's better than Harden? Lmao, c'mon.. I would only take Klay if he's a third option player. I do not trust this guy to perform when it matters. Stick any gritty defender on Klay and he will disappoint you. he's choked miserably in two straight NBA Finals. I'd go as far as saying he is not even a top 20 player. Probably barely top 25.

Giannis94
03-03-2017, 07:20 PM
i'm not sure you want Klay on your team unless you have a guy like LeBron, Westbrook, etc., who can carry a huge load. This dude is not as good as some of you seem to make it. He's very easy to defend and lacks any other skill besides scoring. His defense is only good because that's literally all they need him to do. the weak SG position is the only reason Klay gets so much respect outside of him being on a stacked team. Could you imagine this guy as a 1st option? Remember when they said he's better than Harden? Lmao, c'mon.. I would only take Klay if he's a third option player. I do not trust this guy to perform when it matters. Stick any gritty defender on Klay and he will disappoint you. he's choked miserably in two straight NBA Finals. I'd go as far as saying he is not even a top 20 player. Probably barely top 25.

And people thought I watch no basketball?

Shammyguy3
03-03-2017, 08:13 PM
^ top-25 sounds about right for Klay, so i don't see how that's a ridiculous claim

Lebron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Harden
Paul, Davis, Kawhi, Butler, Cousins
Green, Griffin, Lillard, Giannis, Lowry, George,

are all clearly better (that's 16). I would also take these guys ahead of him: Towns, Hayward, Wall, Gobert, Thomas. That's another 5. So at least 21 now.

Then you also have guys like Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, DeMar DeRozan (this year), and even Kemba Walker putting up big numbers (23/5.5/4).


That's another four players, totaling 25 guys. Then you have a handful of guys that don't fill up the boxscore but have significant impact on teams: Paul Millsap, LaMarcus Aldridge, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan.


29 players that I could see someone making a case is superior to Klay Thompson (especially considering most of these guys aren't in the PERFECT situation that Klay Thompson is in this year)

tredigs
03-03-2017, 08:24 PM
^ top-25 sounds about right for Klay, so i don't see how that's a ridiculous claim

Lebron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Harden
Paul, Davis, Kawhi, Butler, Cousins
Green, Griffin, Lillard, Giannis, Lowry, George,

are all clearly better (that's 16). I would also take these guys ahead of him: Towns, Hayward, Wall, Gobert, Thomas. That's another 5. So at least 21 now.

Then you also have guys like Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, DeMar DeRozan (this year), and even Kemba Walker putting up big numbers (23/5.5/4).


That's another four players, totaling 25 guys. Then you have a handful of guys that don't fill up the boxscore but have significant impact on teams: Paul Millsap, LaMarcus Aldridge, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan.


29 players that I could see someone making a case is superior to Klay Thompson (especially considering most of these guys aren't in the PERFECT situation that Klay Thompson is in this year)
I'd agree with this as well. He's still a borderline AS level player who knows his role and accepts it. Fantastic 2nd option on any team, and he would still be able to put up 22+ PPG with efficiency in any situation (not this efficient, but he wouldn't dip below a 55% TS even as a 1). You wouldn't want him as your teams best overall player, but Klay's a guy you definitely want on your team.

Cracka2HI!
03-03-2017, 08:48 PM
As if Golden State hadn't already dominated the Clippers enough since it used to be a rivalry 2-3 years ago...The Clippers are in far more cap hell than the Dubs if they keep everyone. The Clippers will likely have a fresh Loul Deng type contracts on their hands with Reddick to boot.

Shammyguy3
03-03-2017, 08:50 PM
I'd agree with this as well. He's still a borderline AS level player who knows his role and accepts it. Fantastic 2nd option on any team, and he would still be able to put up 22+ PPG with efficiency in any situation (not this efficient, but he wouldn't dip below a 55% TS even as a 1). You wouldn't want him as your teams best overall player, but Klay's a guy you definitely want on your team.

I would like to see him next to John Wall in Washington, and see if he ends up being as productive as that fanbase hoped Bradley Beal would end up being when they drafted him

Giannis94
03-03-2017, 09:04 PM
I'd agree with this as well. He's still a borderline AS level player who knows his role and accepts it. Fantastic 2nd option on any team, and he would still be able to put up 22+ PPG with efficiency in any situation (not this efficient, but he wouldn't dip below a 55% TS even as a 1). You wouldn't want him as your teams best overall player, but Klay's a guy you definitely want on your team.
If Klaus were in the Nets he'd be a lot higher in my books.

5ass
03-03-2017, 09:40 PM
I would like to see him next to John Wall in Washington, and see if he ends up being as productive as that fanbase hoped Bradley Beal would end up being when they drafted him

What do you mean? Beal is averaging 23 PPG on 60% TS.

JasonJohnHorn
03-03-2017, 10:45 PM
It's only cap hell if they aren't making enough money to cover it and still turn a profit.

All the Warriors jerseys and hats I've been seeing lately tell me they are making lots of money. Not sure what the numbers are, but who cares as long as they are winning and making bank.

TrueFan420
03-04-2017, 12:08 PM
It's only cap hell if they aren't making enough money to cover it and still turn a profit.

All the Warriors jerseys and hats I've been seeing lately tell me they are making lots of money. Not sure what the numbers are, but who cares as long as they are winning and making bank.

Not just that but they're moving to SF. Once their in the city the money they generate is only going to increase.

Vinylman
03-04-2017, 12:17 PM
doesn't this apply to Durant?

Non-Bird exception[edit]

"Non-qualifying free agents" (those who do not qualify under either the Larry Bird exception or the early Bird exception) are subject to the non-Bird exception. Under this exception, teams can re-sign a player to a contract beginning at either 120% of his salary for the previous season, or 120% of the league's minimum salary, whichever amount is higher. Contracts signed under the Non-Bird exception can last up to four years (down from six under the 2005 CBA).

The cap is going up again and currys cap hold is pretty low

I am pretty sure they can max Durant because of that as long as they renounce iggy and Livingston

Sign Durant first and then go over to sign curry

Vinylman
03-04-2017, 12:28 PM
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/07/signing-for-golden-state-will-cost-kevin-durant-an-absurd-amount-in-taxes

yea he clearly will take less at this point in all honesty... He will do anything for a ring

It is amazing to me that a publication like SI could make such a bad assumption on state taxes. State taxes are assessed based on where the player plays the game not his state of residency. You can't simply take the differences in rates between states to calculate the impact. Additionally, adding the Nike income in is also misleading because the assumption is that he would become a legal resident of California.

Oh well ... don't want to confuse things with facts

IndyRealist
03-04-2017, 12:58 PM
Unless it absolutely fails in GS, durant will not opt out of his contract this summer because they don't have bird rights yet. S
He's obviously a great fit there. So they pay Curry this year and Durant next year.

valade16
03-04-2017, 01:56 PM
What do you mean? Beal is averaging 23 PPG on 60% TS.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Klay+Thompson&player_id1_select=Klay+Thompson&y1=2017&player_id1=thompkl01&hint=Bradley+Beal&player_id2_select=Bradley+Beal&y2=2017&player_id2=bealbr01

Is Klay Thompson overrated or is Bradley Beal underrated?

europagnpilgrim
03-04-2017, 02:31 PM
i'm not sure you want Klay on your team unless you have a guy like LeBron, Westbrook, etc., who can carry a huge load. This dude is not as good as some of you seem to make it. He's very easy to defend and lacks any other skill besides scoring. His defense is only good because that's literally all they need him to do. the weak SG position is the only reason Klay gets so much respect outside of him being on a stacked team. Could you imagine this guy as a 1st option? Remember when they said he's better than Harden? Lmao, c'mon.. I would only take Klay if he's a third option player. I do not trust this guy to perform when it matters. Stick any gritty defender on Klay and he will disappoint you. he's choked miserably in two straight NBA Finals. I'd go as far as saying he is not even a top 20 player. Probably barely top 25.

to be fair to Klay the SG position has been weak for quite a long while

it got so weak that they had to move natural PG to SG positions(Wade/Iverson) to make it look like something, hell even Kobe started as a all star starter and he was avg like 15ppg in his 2nd season coming off the bench for the Lakers, that's how weak that position has been, a long while

KingPosey
03-04-2017, 02:49 PM
i'm not sure you want Klay on your team unless you have a guy like LeBron, Westbrook, etc., who can carry a huge load. This dude is not as good as some of you seem to make it. He's very easy to defend and lacks any other skill besides scoring. His defense is only good because that's literally all they need him to do. the weak SG position is the only reason Klay gets so much respect outside of him being on a stacked team. Could you imagine this guy as a 1st option? Remember when they said he's better than Harden? Lmao, c'mon.. I would only take Klay if he's a third option player. I do not trust this guy to perform when it matters. Stick any gritty defender on Klay and he will disappoint you. he's choked miserably in two straight NBA Finals. I'd go as far as saying he is not even a top 20 player. Probably barely top 25.

He's not "very easy to defend" lol

He's got flaws in his game and limits but a guy that can drop 40 in a quarter while being triple teamed and not miss a shot or drop 60+ and hit EVERYTHING he takes isn't "super easy to defend"

That's ridiculous

maddBat
03-04-2017, 02:59 PM
so IF klay gets traded does he become the next franchise player ala james harden? remember when they traded harden saying he choked in the playoffs (when he was with the thunder) and he wouldnt be any1 special.

Shammyguy3
03-04-2017, 06:18 PM
What do you mean? Beal is averaging 23 PPG on 60% TS.

Had no idea he wa playing this well. He never made a jump before this year in his career, maybe he was a late bloomer

valade16
03-04-2017, 06:51 PM
Had no idea he wa playing this well. He never made a jump before this year in his career, maybe he was a late bloomer

I was surprised both he and Otto Porter have been playing really well. Washington may have a nice core to build around now.

BKLYNpigeon
03-04-2017, 07:28 PM
The Warriors will be signing KD first and whatever free agents they can operating under the Salary Cap.

Once all that is finished up, they will resign Curry with the Max since they own his bird rights.


This ownership group has made a lot of money since purchasing the Warriors for 550mil and now being worth 2.2 billion dollars. This financed their own stadium in SF for 1 Billion. They do not care about spending money! That treat players right and keep their word.

They agreed to sign Jose Caleron before the KD Injury. but they gave him 400k for free, by signing him and waiving him for Matt Barnes.

On all road trips, The Warriors buy out an entire restaurants 30-50k, so Players, Family and Friends can come after the game.

5ass
03-04-2017, 09:25 PM
Had no idea he wa playing this well. He never made a jump before this year in his career, maybe he was a late bloomer

He's been held back by injuries. Only 23 years old, he still has room to grow. At that age Klay was still at 18 PPG. Same with Derozen. Butler was scoring 8 PPG. Beal has been in the league for a while, and he's improved every year, but he's still young. I just hope be stays healthy.

kobe4thewinbang
03-05-2017, 01:27 AM
I think Klay eventually goes his own way, or vice versa. More likely Klay though, cuz that dude can be "Steph" somewhere else.

BKLYNpigeon
03-05-2017, 11:17 AM
I think in 2 years Warriors would have to make a decision on either Play or Draymond when their contract is up.
Klays contract extension comes up first, then Draymonds. I think they keep Trade Draymond if they have to.

One Nut Kruk
03-05-2017, 11:27 AM
What is a keep trade?

BKLYNpigeon
03-05-2017, 11:44 AM
A typo. Haha

BKLYNpigeon
03-05-2017, 11:46 AM
I'm sure the warriors will keep all 4 for 2 years. See what they can add to their bench with minimum contracts. If it does not work, I'm sure they will trade on of them.

Vinylman
03-05-2017, 11:56 AM
I'm sure the warriors will keep all 4 for 2 years. See what they can add to their bench with minimum contracts. If it does not work, I'm sure they will trade on of them.

Trading one of them for what?

They will still be over the cap after trading one of them.

Unless the big 4 takes a massive paycut there really isn't a way to keep them together when Klay and Drays deals come due

BKLYNpigeon
03-05-2017, 12:35 PM
In 2 years, the warriors will be in the exact situation the Clippers are in this year.

The Warriors own the Bird Rights to Play and Draymond. They can go over the salary cap to resign all of them. They will be wayyyy, over the salary cap, but the ownership have a ton of money and don't mind spending at all.

Its exactly what the Cavs did last year, they resigned everyone and have to rely on minimum and buyout players.

BKLYNpigeon
03-05-2017, 12:40 PM
In terms of trade value for Klay or Draymond..

I'm sure you would have to ask for a Jimmy Butler / PG package.

A 2nd or 3rd year player who has potential to be an AS + Draft Picks.

Vinylman
03-05-2017, 01:24 PM
In 2 years, the warriors will be in the exact situation the Clippers are in this year.

The Warriors own the Bird Rights to Play and Draymond. They can go over the salary cap to resign all of them. They will be wayyyy, over the salary cap, but the ownership have a ton of money and don't mind spending at all.

Its exactly what the Cavs did last year, they resigned everyone and have to rely on minimum and buyout players.

It really isn't like Cleveland in the sense that Klay and dray are worth way more than TT Shump JR

Look at it this way... next year Durant and curry will be making more than LBJ Kyrie and Love combined

Klay and Dray will be worth a lot more on the open market than those other guys on Cleveland. Not to mention they won't be eligible for the super max with the dubs because Durant and Curry will already be getting it

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-05-2017, 01:25 PM
Hypothetical if Cavs win it all. Do the Warriors stay together another season or two? Or unload a Klay or Green for a bunch of younger cheap pieces and or picks?

Yanks All Day
03-05-2017, 02:32 PM
Hypothetical if Cavs win it all. Do the Warriors stay together another season or two? Or unload a Klay or Green for a bunch of younger cheap pieces and or picks?

If the Warriors didn't win this year, regardless of Durant's injury, I think you'd see Klay Thompson traded. No one doubts the Warriors' starters are more talented than 90% of NBA teams, but their bench all of a sudden leaves much to be desired. Klay would net a great return, enable them to keep Curry-Durant-Green together, and fill out the bench.

As much as people want to say "this Warriors team was pretty good without KD last year," it's just plain delusional. That team had Andrew Bogut, Festus Ezeli, Marreese Speights, Leandro Barbosa, Harrison Barnes, Brandon Rush, and a healthy Andre Iguodala giving them great minutes. We can disregard role players all we want, but that's a lot of supporting talent to lose. Kevin Durant is great enough to mask all that, but losing him is a big deal. They gave up all-time great depth for all-time great starting talent, which is the move you make 100% of the time. You don't pass up on that chance. But not having KD and watching Iggy take 5 steps back is a big deal. There's not a single player on the Warriors, other than a healthy KD, that can give LeBron James even a little bit of trouble in a 7 game series.

Now, if KD comes back and they win, then it's all good. But if they don't win, you'd have to think a trade happens to regain the depth that led them to an NBA title and then a 73-win season.

Scoots
03-05-2017, 02:46 PM
I doubt the Warriors move any of their big 4 for another contract at least. They may have to trade some draft picks to get the depth, the depth this year is not significantly worse than last year, but next year it could take a significant hit.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2017, 11:22 AM
The cap is going up again and currys cap hold is pretty low

I am pretty sure they can max Durant because of that as long as they renounce iggy and Livingston

Sign Durant first and then go over to sign curry

can they max Durant with 1 year of tenure on their roster? Or is he only eligible for 120% raise from this years base?

Hawkeye15
03-06-2017, 11:23 AM
Trading one of them for what?

They will still be over the cap after trading one of them.

Unless the big 4 takes a massive paycut there really isn't a way to keep them together when Klay and Drays deals come due

exactly. They still have 2 more years for a window with these 4, but at some point, one walks....(Klay will be the one)

Vinylman
03-06-2017, 01:54 PM
can they max Durant with 1 year of tenure on their roster? Or is he only eligible for 120% raise from this years base?

under the old CBA he becomes a player with 10 years in after this year so he goes to 35% of the cap... right now he is in the 30% category because he has 7-9 years in.

The only thing I don't understand is how the designated player deal works in the new CBA... but is that really important since it will only give him more LOL

I think combined him and Steph assuming they both make all NBA will combine for just under $80 million next year.

Vinylman
03-06-2017, 01:56 PM
exactly. They still have 2 more years for a window with these 4, but at some point, one walks....(Klay will be the one)

Everything with this group hinges on them winning it this year ... if they do then I don't think anything happens next year but if they don't then I could see Klay being moved as early as this off season to get maximum value.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2017, 02:00 PM
under the old CBA he becomes a player with 10 years in after this year so he goes to 35% of the cap... right now he is in the 30% category because he has 7-9 years in.

The only thing I don't understand is how the designated player deal works in the new CBA... but is that really important since it will only give him more LOL

I think combined him and Steph assuming they both make all NBA will combine for just under $80 million next year.

ok ok, makes sense.

valade16
03-06-2017, 04:47 PM
How badly will Durant be viewed if GS doesn't win this year? They almost have to lol

Hawkeye15
03-06-2017, 05:23 PM
How badly will Durant be viewed if GS doesn't win this year? They almost have to lol

the worst case for Durant is if they win without him haha

Vinylman
03-07-2017, 01:33 PM
nah... the absolute worse case is them winning without him...

they resign him

and then trade him to philly for a boatload of assets

valade16
03-07-2017, 01:57 PM
the worst case for Durant is if they win without him haha

LOL, that would be brutal for him, especially if he comes back the next year and they don't win.