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View Full Version : The future of Isaiah Thomas (and the Celtics)



unleashthebeast
02-24-2017, 02:41 PM
Obviously we all know what happened yesterday. The Celtics, amidst an insane amount of speculation, did not make a move for Paul George or Jimmy Butler. This then means that they still have Brooklyn's 2017 1st round pick, projected to be #1 overall currently.

So, what does this mean? Guys like Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball are sitting at the top of draft boards; however the Celtics best player currently is Isaiah Thomas.

Thomas has yet to receive his big NBA payday, which he will be set to receive in the 2018 offseason. Will the Celtics be willing to offer Thomas max or near max money though if their future at PG sits with someone like Fultz or Ball?

I'm just fascinated by the Celtics future right now. There are so many different routes that they can take, and a lot of it depends on which guys they believe can actually lead them to a championship. Will they put all of their chips in on Isaiah Thomas and continue to build around him, or will they look to deal him next year before that huge contract comes on the books?

unleashthebeast
02-24-2017, 02:42 PM
Wow **** me I misspelled Thomas in the title :laugh2:. If someone could fix that for me, that'd be much appreciated.

C-ross12
02-24-2017, 03:12 PM
Obviously we all know what happened yesterday. The Celtics, amidst an insane amount of speculation, did not make a move for Paul George or Jimmy Butler. This then means that they still have Brooklyn's 2017 1st round pick, projected to be #1 overall currently.

So, what does this mean? Guys like Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball are sitting at the top of draft boards; however the Celtics best player currently is Isaiah Thomas.

Thomas has yet to receive his big NBA payday, which he will be set to receive in the 2018 offseason. Will the Celtics be willing to offer Thomas max or near max money though if their future at PG sits with someone like Fultz or Ball?

I'm just fascinated by the Celtics future right now. There are so many different routes that they can take, and a lot of it depends on which guys they believe can actually lead them to a championship. Will they put all of their chips in on Isaiah Thomas and continue to build around him, or will they look to deal him next year before that huge contract comes on the books?

A lot will depend on what happens in the playoffs. I don't really see a path forward with Thomas and Horford (both very good NBA players). The problem is always going to be staring at GS in the finals. I was fine with standing pat at the deadline. I certainly didn't like some of the proposed deals for Butler and George out there. 2 or 3 of Brown, Smart, Bradley and Crowder Plus nets pick(s) is just too much IMHO. I think if we end up with the 1 or 2 in the draft we should draft Fultz / Ball and deal Thomas. The Nets 18' pick should be at the top as well, so by the time Brown, Fultz 18' pick are 25ish hopefully GSW are a little more tired.

ewing
02-24-2017, 03:18 PM
A lot will depend on what happens in the playoffs. I don't really see a path forward with Thomas and Horford (both very good NBA players). The problem is always going to be staring at GS in the finals. I was fine with standing pat at the deadline. I certainly didn't like some of the proposed deals for Butler and George out there. 2 or 3 of Brown, Smart, Bradley and Crowder Plus nets pick(s) is just too much IMHO. I think if we end up with the 1 or 2 in the draft we should draft Fultz / Ball and deal Thomas. The Nets 18' pick should be at the top as well, so by the time Brown, Fultz 18' pick are 25ish hopefully GSW are a little more tired.

you 2nd in the East with a guy scoring 29 a game and your going to deal him and rebuild with a rookie PG? No offensive, but that sounds insane to me. How do you know either of these guys are going to pan out or how long it takes them if they do?

C-ross12
02-24-2017, 03:39 PM
you 2nd in the East with a guy scoring 29 a game and your going to deal him and rebuild with a rookie PG? No offensive, but that sounds insane to me. How do you know either of these guys are going to pan out or how long it takes them if they do?

The east isn't the west. I would say we're maybe the 6th best team in the NBA, maybe a bit lower. I would say the GSW, Cavs, Spurs, Rockets and Clippers are all better. You could argue that the Jazz, Raptors and Wizards are all at least there and maybe better. Isaiah Thomas is a good NBA player. But hes having a career year, and is about to get paid handsomely. We are fast approaching the point where we have to decide if Thomas is our guy to lead us as to a championship. He will need max money for Thomas, and I'm not sure, money wise, if spending our wad on Thomas, Horford + gets us there. The goal is to win a championship, but its hard to convince me that Thomas, Horford and Butler / George gets us past Cavs, not to mention GSW in the finals.

ewing
02-24-2017, 03:44 PM
The east isn't the west. I would say we're maybe the 6th best team in the NBA, maybe a bit lower. I would say the GSW, Cavs, Spurs, Rockets and Clippers are all better. You could argue that the Jazz, Raptors and Wizards are all at least there and maybe better. Isaiah Thomas is a good NBA player. But hes having a career year, and is about to get paid handsomely. We are fast approaching the point where we have to decide if Thomas is our guy to lead us as to a championship. He will need max money for Thomas, and I'm not sure, money wise, if spending our wad on Thomas, Horford + gets us there. The goal is to win a championship, but its hard to convince me that Thomas, Horford and Butler / George gets us past Cavs, not to mention GSW in the finals.

You sound like LeBron :). you are not going to get a sure thing. you have a good young 50+ win team with the flexibility to try an improve, you don't throw away the best player on your team and go with some rookie who may or may not turn into something and is probably years away regardless.

hugepatsfan
02-24-2017, 03:58 PM
I doubt IT wins a title with BOS. Durant not signing here probably closed the window to win the current group unless Jaylen Brown and the other 2 BRK picks becomes stars. For BOS to be a top tier contender with the current landscape of the NBA they need to add a #1 and a #2 player that push IT/Horford down to 3/4. And they need to add them fast enough that IT/Horford are still good. And do it without sacrificing too much of their depth. Unloading the treasure chest for Jimmy or PG would have left them with no route to add the other guy they need.

What I'd like to see is us hold onto the BRK picks. I want Fultz at either #1 or #2. I really, really hope that we can lure Hayward away from Utah this offseason. Then trade Bradley for a big. Re-sign Jerebko for room exception. Bring Yabusele and Zizic over from overseas. Probably sign last year's 2nd rounder Abel Nader to a deal. Go into next year with:

IT/Smart... Rozier/Jackson
Brown/Fultz
Hayward/Crowder... Nader
Horford/Jerebko... Yabu
(Big from Bradley trade)/Zizic... Mickey

Then the next year you use the next BRK pick that I'm hoping is high. You develop Brown/Fultz/2018 BRK pick. In The meantime you keep having good and exciting teams. If those young guys really take off you could have something. If they take a little longer, then you'll still be in good shape in the future. If they flop, you go back to rebuilding like 95% of the NBA.

We're not close enough to splurge yet and have it pay off. It will just be a lot of ECF losses barring a huge stroke of luck. If the BRK picks go #1 and you can get real return for them without including much else then you make a move but right now where you gotta throw the kitchen sink in with them it's not worth it.

IndyRealist
02-24-2017, 04:01 PM
The Celtics are at the point they need to go all-in. They're on the cusp . Unfortunately, this deadline was their best bet to add salary before paying Thomas. I can understand not meeting the ridiculous asking prices of Chicago and Indiana, but they were still in a good position to strengthen their bench. We know Noel, McDermott, and Taj all got moved, and Boston could have beaten those offers.

I don't think they have any choice but to pay Thomas and Bradley, and hope that those picks can contribute immediately and bolster the bench. They're going to have too much salary to add via trade without losing key players. Luckily they are very high picks.

BKLYNpigeon
02-24-2017, 04:09 PM
I bet Boston trades him before he's a Free Agent.

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 04:18 PM
If I'm Danny Ainge I do this:
- Find out who Indiana and Chicago want with my pick, and draft that guy.
- Get the best possible free agent I can this summer as early as I possibly can in free agency. My top target is probably Gordon Hayward.
- Flip the drafted player in the same deal Chicago or Indiana requested at the trade deadline.
- Fill up the rest of my squad with quality veterans on cheap contracts.
- Re-sign IT to a max deal in 2018.
- Win championships, drink expensive champagne, drive fast cars and enjoy beautiful women.

But, you know, that's just me using common sense. I suppose trading one of the best players in the league at his peak and banking on a rookie PG also makes sense... if you throw logic completely out the window and suck at life.

Giannis94
02-24-2017, 04:25 PM
The trade deadline means the Celtics do not think IT is a franchise player.

ManRam
02-24-2017, 04:30 PM
I think it's too early and not worth worrying about now. If they land a top-PG I don't think that means they have to move IT. Like you said, with all the assets they have there seem to be many paths forward for them. It's a good problem to have.

It's worth noting that Ball is big for a PG. I don't see why he couldn't co-exist with IT. On the defensive end he can guard the 2 and Isaiah can guard the 1. On offense it matters less who's playing what position. The same works for Fultz, though to a slightly lesser extent. IT could also be a super-6th man. They can make it work.

And I don't see why they'd trade the NJ pick for Butler or Paul in the off-season if they didn't feel like giving it up at the deadline. That would make zero sense to me.

hugepatsfan
02-24-2017, 04:37 PM
If I'm Danny Ainge I do this:
- Find out who Indiana and Chicago want with my pick, and draft that guy.
- Get the best possible free agent I can this summer as early as I possibly can in free agency. My top target is probably Gordon Hayward.
- Flip the drafted player in the same deal Chicago or Indiana requested at the trade deadline.
- Fill up the rest of my squad with quality veterans on cheap contracts.
- Re-sign IT to a max deal in 2018.
- Win championships, drink expensive champagne, drive fast cars and enjoy beautiful women.

But, you know, that's just me using common sense. I suppose trading one of the best players in the league at his peak and banking on a rookie PG also makes sense... if you throw logic completely out the window and suck at life.

I'd be down to try this. It's very different from making a move at the deadline. The way you're layering the moves we can sign a Hayward and then make a trade. If they made a deal yesterday there wouldn't be the cap room to do that. If we had IT/Butler (or George)/Hayward/Horford and then probably one of 2 of Smart/Bradley/Crowder/Jaylen Brown left plus the 2018 BRK pick then that's difference vs. all of that and not having Heyward.

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 04:38 PM
I think it's too early and not worth worrying about now. If they land a top-PG I don't think that means they have to move IT. Like you said, with all the assets they have there seem to be many paths forward for them. It's a good problem to have.

It's worth noting that Ball is big for a PG. I don't see why he couldn't co-exist with IT. On the defensive end he can guard the 2 and Isaiah can guard the 1. On offense it matters less who's playing what position. The same works for Fultz, though to a slightly lesser extent. IT could also be a super-6th man. They can make it work.

And I don't see why they'd trade the NJ pick for Butler or Paul in the off-season if they didn't feel like giving it up at the deadline. That would make zero sense to me.

If Ainge is smart, he won't keep this pick or the player drafted from the pick. A rookie has no value to a team with most of its players at their peaks trying to contend for a title today. And that pick or player's value is probably as high as it's going to be for several years right now. I'll be shocked if the player drafted by that pick is wearing a Celtics jersey when the 2017-18 season starts. And if he is, then Ainge will have failed miserably.

hugepatsfan
02-24-2017, 04:39 PM
I think it's too early and not worth worrying about now. If they land a top-PG I don't think that means they have to move IT. Like you said, with all the assets they have there seem to be many paths forward for them. It's a good problem to have.

It's worth noting that Ball is big for a PG. I don't see why he couldn't co-exist with IT. On the defensive end he can guard the 2 and Isaiah can guard the 1. On offense it matters less who's playing what position. The same works for Fultz, though to a slightly lesser extent. IT could also be a super-6th man. They can make it work.

And I don't see why they'd trade the NJ pick for Butler or Paul in the off-season if they didn't feel like giving it up at the deadline. That would make zero sense to me.

If it goes #1 (or #2) with no risk of falling to #3 or #4 and CHI/IND can fall in love with a player there's the chance that it reduces the rest of the package. I heard it was the BRK pick plus 3 of Bradley/Smart/Crowder/Brown/2018 BRK pick. Maybe if IND/CHI know they got their guy it becomes 2 of that next group and that pushes it over the top for Ainge.

hugepatsfan
02-24-2017, 04:40 PM
I feel like a lot of people want BOS to jump early and make a move that's not in the franchise's best interest because it selfishly makes for a more exciting ECF. We still wouldn't have a very good shot of winning but it'd be more entertaining for sure. Selfishly yeah that's great. But it likely leaves BOS just to have a 5 year stretch of being good but not being able to get over the hump.

Giannis94
02-24-2017, 04:45 PM
People want Boston to make a move because if they had gotten Butler or George their big 3 > the cars big 2.5

C-ross12
02-24-2017, 05:10 PM
I feel like a lot of people want BOS to jump early and make a move that's not in the franchise's best interest because it selfishly makes for a more exciting ECF. We still wouldn't have a very good shot of winning but it'd be more entertaining for sure. Selfishly yeah that's great. But it likely leaves BOS just to have a 5 year stretch of being good but not being able to get over the hump.

Seems to be the theme. All I've taken out of this thread so far is if you think Fultz is the better option going forward then Thomas, you're a moron. I'm not so sure about that.

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 05:14 PM
People want Boston to make a move because if they had gotten Butler or George their big 3 > the cars big 2.5

I dunno man. The Cars had some pretty big hits: "Just What I Needed," "My Best Friend's Girl," "Drive," etc. I mean, I think it's hard to compare a basketball team to a rock band from the 70s and 80s. But I think I'd go with the Cars, here.

LOb0
02-24-2017, 05:18 PM
They're going to pay Isaiah. He's a guy you can keep and add more stars around. Those draft picks will likely end up being traded for another star. Anige is just waiting for a better deal. There is no point in rushing this.

C-ross12
02-24-2017, 05:20 PM
They're going to pay Isaiah. He's a guy you can keep and add more stars around. Those draft picks will likely end up being traded for another star. Anige is just waiting for a better deal. There is no point in rushing this.

This is a probably what he wants to do. Ainge most likely didn't want to give up two nets picks and two good NBA pieces for Butler / George.

LOb0
02-24-2017, 05:24 PM
This is a probably what he wants to do. Ainge most likely didn't want to give up two nets picks and two good NBA pieces for Butler / George.

The ****ing Pacers wanted 3 out of the group of Smart, Crowder, Brown, and Bradley and the Nets pick. I'd of hung up the phone.

ewing
02-24-2017, 05:36 PM
Seems to be the theme. All I've taken out of this thread so far is if you think Fultz is the better option going forward then Thomas, you're a moron. I'm not so sure about that.

well at least you are getting the point

ewing
02-24-2017, 05:37 PM
I dunno man. The Cars had some pretty big hits: "Just What I Needed," "My Best Friend's Girl," "Drive," etc. I mean, I think it's hard to compare a basketball team to a rock band from the 70s and 80s. But I think I'd go with the Cars, here.

:clap::clap:

That was good

IndyRealist
02-24-2017, 05:40 PM
The ****ing Pacers wanted 3 out of the group of Smart, Crowder, Brown, and Bradley and the Nets pick. I'd of hung up the phone.

You wouldn't have done Smart, Brown, and the Nets pick? I wanted Crowder, the pick, and filler.

ewing
02-24-2017, 05:41 PM
This is a probably what he wants to do. Ainge most likely didn't want to give up two nets picks and two good NBA pieces for Butler / George.

that's fine you still don't let Isiah walk and rebuild.

DanG
02-24-2017, 05:42 PM
I think they actually made a decent move by not trading their picks for PG/Butler. They're not getting past the Cavs while LeBron plays at this level so why not prepare to be GREAT in a few years.

IndyRealist
02-24-2017, 05:46 PM
I think they actually made a decent move by not trading their picks for PG/Butler. They're not getting past the Cavs while LeBron plays at this level so why not prepare to be GREAT in a few years.

The Cavs look exposed this year, and they didn't get Lebron his playmaker. I think the Celtics are one piece away from the Finals.

ewing
02-24-2017, 05:48 PM
The Cavs look exposed this year, and they didn't get Lebron his playmaker. I think the Celtics are one piece away from the Finals.

no reason to try unless you are 10 times better then everyone else ;)

PAOboston
02-24-2017, 05:53 PM
Well, not paying IT4 doesn't really make much sense considering they spent all that money signing Horford. He should get paid and they should pay him. He's been nothing short of spectacular for the C's.

As for their picks, I don't see why drafting another PG is a problem. IT, Bradley, and Smart all are up for mew contracts next season. IMO, Bradley is the odd man out. Drafting a Fultz or Ball just replaces whoever is likely leaving.

And I agree with how Ainge handled the trade deadline. He has cap space to go after a FA and add to the team without subtracting any significant pieces.

PAOboston
02-24-2017, 05:57 PM
You wouldn't have done Smart, Brown, and the Nets pick? I wanted Crowder, the pick, and filler.

That's wasn't the rumoured deal though. It was 3 out of the 4 players plus the Brooklyn pick. The C's would be giving up almost half of their core rotation and a lotto pick for a guy who would not commit long term. They were right to not make that deal.

IndyRealist
02-24-2017, 06:08 PM
This entire time I thought Thomas and Bradley were up this summer. It's next summer. Definitely better not to make a deal and see how it pans out in free agency.

IndyRealist
02-24-2017, 06:10 PM
That's wasn't the rumoured deal though. It was 3 out of the 4 players plus the Brooklyn pick. The C's would be giving up almost half of their core rotation and a lotto pick for a guy who would not commit long term. They were right to not make that deal.

I misread Lobo's post. Commas help.

FOXHOUND
02-24-2017, 06:11 PM
It was a better gamble to wait for the draft lottery. If the pick does end up being #1, then it has a lot more value in a trade and less has to be given up with it. If it drops to #4, then no. How the draft lottery works, there's a 75% chance for that pick not to be #1. Not only that, the highest probability for the worst record is a 35.7% chance to drop to the 4th spot. Contrary to popular belief, this is why tanking doesn't work in the NBA.

It is a gamble, because if it drops to #4 then they're pretty much screwed on a George trade without giving up a ton. Then again, they can then just use their cap space to try and get another star and repeat the process next year. Not like the Nets are getting any better and if this CBA has proven anything so far it's that star players should be on the move via trade far more often now.

hugepatsfan
02-24-2017, 07:17 PM
People want Boston to make a move because if they had gotten Butler or George their big 3 > the cars big 2.5

Lebron > PG or Butler
Irving > IT
Love > Horford

The PG rumor was that we'd have to give up 3 of Bradley/Crowder/Smart/Brown. So if that's the case, whichever of them that's left is the 4th best player. I'd say Crowder/Bradley would be better than JR Smith so if we got left with one of them we'd have the edge there. If it's Smart of Brown we'd be worse.

After that it's Tristain Thompson who's definitely better than whoever BOS would have next (Amir Johnson). And keep going down the line. BOS's rotation would be rounded out by the likes of Kelly Olynyk, Jerebko, Rozier, Gerald Green. CLE would have Shumpert, Frye, Jefferson, etc. Probably a push, slight edge to BOS.

So if BOS made a trade, CLE would have better stars and comparable depth. They'd still be easily better. And we'd be drained of most of our avenues to continue to improve because we'd have no cap and be down the '17 BRK pick. It just wouldn't make sense. Sure they could win but it just isn't smart to sell out for a chance to maybe potentially pull off a sizable upset.

JOSKOMANG4
02-24-2017, 08:23 PM
Celtics lost their chance to acquire Butler & George.

If the lakers get a top 3 pick: Lakers trade Ingram & 3rd overall pick to Indy for Paul George

Pacers lineup: Turner/Young/Ingram/Miles/Dennis Smith

Lakers lineup:

Mosgov/Randle/George/Clarkson/Randle

The timberwolves will trade 6th overall pick, 2018 1st rd pick, & C/F G.Dieng to bulls for Robin Lopez & Jimmy butler.

MIN: Lopez/Towns/Butler/Wiggins/Rubio

Bulls: Dieng/mirotic/Tatum/Wade/Payne

Giannis94
02-24-2017, 08:39 PM
I dunno man. The Cars had some pretty big hits: "Just What I Needed," "My Best Friend's Girl," "Drive," etc. I mean, I think it's hard to compare a basketball team to a rock band from the 70s and 80s. But I think I'd go with the Cars, here.
LOL trolling on a typo as I just got a new phone and it auto corrects everything.

You clearly know that I meant "the-self-proclaimed-akron-kings" team. And by 2.5. If spak was as good as many think he was, he wouldn't of left I'm the first place

Green_Monster
02-24-2017, 09:05 PM
You wouldn't have done Smart, Brown, and the Nets pick? I wanted Crowder, the pick, and filler.

I would've done that. It was reported that the Pacers wanted three pieces from that group though (plus the '17 Nets pick), not two.

Edit: Looks like it's already been covered.

hugepatsfan
02-24-2017, 09:12 PM
I'm hoping the Celtics can:

1) Draft Fultz (either #1 or #2)

2) Let Zeller, Olynyk, Amir, Gerald Green, James Young go

3) Sign Heyward to a max deal. Might be a pipe dream (less so if he gets that all NBA deal) but I can hope, right?

4) re-sign Jerebko to a room exception deal

5) bring Yabusele and Zizic over from overseas (Zizic in particular looks ready from what I read) and sign Nader out of the d-league (last year's 2nd rounder)

6) Trade Bradley to ORL for Vucevic (general framework of the deal)

IT/Smart/Rozier/Jackson
Brown/Fultz
Heyward/Crowder/Nader
Horford/Jerebko/Yabu
Vucevic/Zizic/Mickey

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 09:24 PM
:clap::clap:

That was good

Thank you. I'll be here all week.

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 09:29 PM
LOL trolling on a typo as I just got a new phone and it auto corrects everything.

You clearly know that I meant "the-self-proclaimed-akron-kings" team. And by 2.5. If spak was as good as many think he was, he wouldn't of left I'm the first place

What is "spak?" I've Googled it to find its definition and it brought up a very risque Urban Dictionary post about something a person would do with Ramen noodles and an anus. What does this disgusting sexual act have to do with the Boston Celtics and the Cars?

mrblisterdundee
02-24-2017, 10:40 PM
The Celtics can stand pat and leave all their options open come June, after testing their current roster in a playoff run. They can trade their pick in a big deal if needed, or have the choice of any number of high-quality point guards.
I would stick with Thomas if you're trying to contend right now. He's horrible on defense but masterful on offense. I think Celtics should get a bigger two-guard than Bradley, or even slot Crowder down a spot and give Brown more minutes at small forward. If they got the top pick, Ball could be a good fit next to Thomas, and avoid Boston having to max out Bradley, who could also be traded for more assets.
If Boston wants to wait out Golden State and LeBron James to contend later, they should trade Thomas or let him walk. He's 28 and 5'9", so there's no point in maxing him unless Boston truly believes it can make the moves to hang with the Warriors.
I hope Boston adds Bogut. He can be a cheap rim protector with good passing. I think he'd have quite the Renaissance in Boston.

koreancabbage
02-24-2017, 11:44 PM
raptors > celtics




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Giannis94
02-24-2017, 11:51 PM
raptors > celtics




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Bucks vs either. Bucks in 4

koreancabbage
02-24-2017, 11:52 PM
Bucks vs either. Bucks in 4

Bucks dont make playoffs


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kobe4thewinbang
02-25-2017, 02:28 AM
They need to listen to trade offers for the picks, cuz I'd hate to see the damn Celtics 'rebuild' again and add even more young'ins to their stash. IT has had an awakening after being a 'meh' player, you don't trade that. He's the new Iverson with a 3 ball in his skill set. You max him out (compared to other max deals, it's not a bad idea!) and try to sign a Gordon Hayward or trade for a Carmelo, or a Paul George, etc, etc. No use in having that many assets as championship teams only go 8-9 men deep and it's more about chemistry than talent. Horford, Hayward, IT...is a good start.

europagnpilgrim
02-25-2017, 05:09 AM
Boston has so many assets even when you get past the BKN picks that it was really silly to sit pat this past deadline and not get Jimmy Buckets from the Bulls, they have a slew of other assets in the treasure chest that is crazy, I don't have the data on it but if a C's fan wants to dig it up and post it I would appreciate that

a core of IT/Horford/Butler(or PG13)/Bradley would be a scary sight to play in a series out East, they would be built to take on Cavs

I would have packaged Smart/Brown/Crowder and picks for Butler/Taj(before OKC deal) and put everyone out East on notice like ASAP, if the Bulls wanted Bradley they would have to give me either Smart or Crowder back but I would have struck a deal or at worst re visit this in the offseason a day after the Finals end

PAOboston
02-25-2017, 08:35 AM
Boston has so many assets even when you get past the BKN picks that it was really silly to sit pat this past deadline and not get Jimmy Buckets from the Bulls, they have a slew of other assets in the treasure chest that is crazy, I don't have the data on it but if a C's fan wants to dig it up and post it I would appreciate that

a core of IT/Horford/Butler(or PG13)/Bradley would be a scary sight to play in a series out East, they would be built to take on Cavs

I would have packaged Smart/Brown/Crowder and picks for Butler/Taj(before OKC deal) and put everyone out East on notice like ASAP, if the Bulls wanted Bradley they would have to give me either Smart or Crowder back but I would have struck a deal or at worst re visit this in the offseason a day after the Finals end
Just because they didn't trade for Butler now doesn't mean they won't try again in the summer. Trading for one of those stars now wipes away all they possible cap space for the summer. I think their plan is to try and sign a FA first (my bet is Hayward) and then utilize their assets to add to that core.

ewing
02-25-2017, 11:50 AM
I think they should have landed PG b/c if they did LeBron would either need to figure out a way to force himself onto Boston or actually have competition in the conference.

Green_Monster
02-25-2017, 11:54 AM
raptors > celtics




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Celtics: 37-21
Raptors: 34-24

That's not even counting the Celtics bad injury luck all year.

Avery Bradley has only been available for one of the four games they've faced the Raptors. That's allowed Lowry/Derozan to go off. Not having a first-team all defense guard in the lineup kind of hurts.

hugepatsfan
02-25-2017, 11:55 AM
I think they should have landed PG b/c if they did LeBron would either need to figure out a way to force himself onto Boston or actually have competition on the conference.

The competition would be stronger but CLE would still be easy favorites in a series. Like I said before:


Lebron > PG or Butler
Irving > IT
Love > Horford

The PG rumor was that we'd have to give up 3 of Bradley/Crowder/Smart/Brown. So if that's the case, whichever of them that's left is the 4th best player. I'd say Crowder/Bradley would be better than JR Smith so if we got left with one of them we'd have the edge there. If it's Smart of Brown we'd be worse.

After that it's Tristain Thompson who's definitely better than whoever BOS would have next (Amir Johnson). And keep going down the line. BOS's rotation would be rounded out by the likes of Kelly Olynyk, Jerebko, Rozier, Gerald Green. CLE would have Shumpert, Frye, Jefferson, etc. Probably a push, slight edge to BOS.

So if BOS made a trade, CLE would have better stars and comparable depth. They'd still be easily better. And we'd be drained of most of our avenues to continue to improve because we'd have no cap and be down the '17 BRK pick. It just wouldn't make sense. Sure they could win but it just isn't smart to sell out for a chance to maybe potentially pull off a sizable upset.

If BOS just unloaded on PG they'd be better and a stronger competition but still not as good. It'd be fun as fans to have a better series but it's not in the best interests of Boston to go "all-in". Not yet. They're going to need not one but multiple moves (at least 2, maybe even 3) over the next 1-2 years to be a real threat. They have to layer the moves right so they have flexibility to make the next move(s) after the initial one.

They really need to use that cap space they have this year to get another key guy - either through FA or absorbing a guy in trade sending out less contract value. Then they can swing another deal with the Bradley/Crowder/Smart types left. If they do that second move first like people here are suggesting they should have they'd have no means to make the second and be stuck.

North Yorker
02-25-2017, 12:03 PM
Celtics: 37-21
Raptors: 34-24

That's not even counting the Celtics bad injury luck all year.

Avery Bradley has only been available for one of the four games they've faced the Raptors. That's allowed Lowry/Derozan to go off. Not having a first-team all defense guard in the lineup kind of hurts.

Raps are 3-1 vs the Celts this year and Boston's 1 win came when DeRozan was out on the 2nd night of a back to back. And they beat them last night without Lowry, who is much better than Bradley. Toronto's had their full lineup for 1 of 58 games this year, so shush.

Green_Monster
02-25-2017, 12:14 PM
Raps are 3-1 vs the Celts this year and Boston's 1 win came when DeRozan was out on the 2nd night of a back to back. And they beat them last night without Lowry, who is much better than Bradley. Toronto's had their full lineup for 1 of 58 games this year, so shush.

They've yet to beat a Celtics team with their starters healthy. The Celtics have a 3 game lead over them. Shush.

North Yorker
02-25-2017, 12:50 PM
They've yet to beat a Celtics team with their starters healthy. The Celtics have a 3 game lead over them. Shush.

Same?

So both squads fully healthy you think the C's are better? Cool. Hopefully we find out in the playoffs.

Just pointing out to you that using the injury excuse is weak.

Green_Monster
02-25-2017, 01:07 PM
Same?

So both squads fully healthy you think the C's are better? Cool. Hopefully we find out in the playoffs.

Just pointing out to you that using the injury excuse is weak.

I was saying it in relation to their record, so yeah.

One Nut Kruk
02-25-2017, 01:30 PM
Pretty sure regular season record doesn't determine who's the better team. Hopefully they do meet in the playoffs, that would be sweet.

Green_Monster
02-25-2017, 03:19 PM
Pretty sure regular season record doesn't determine who's the better team. Hopefully they do meet in the playoffs, that would be sweet.

Pretending there's a better way is silly. It doesn't automatically mean they're better, but they have those records for a reason.

LOb0
02-25-2017, 04:02 PM
They've yet to beat a Celtics team with their starters healthy. The Celtics have a 3 game lead over them. Shush.

I'm a Celtics fan and I'd like to take a crack at them with Bradley playing, but they kill us on the boards. It's gonna be a real problem.

Green_Monster
02-25-2017, 04:45 PM
I'm a Celtics fan and I'd like to take a crack at them with Bradley playing, but they kill us on the boards. It's gonna be a real problem.

Getting our leading rebounder back may help.

Vee-Rex
02-25-2017, 05:22 PM
Lebron > PG or Butler
Irving > IT
Love > Horford

The PG rumor was that we'd have to give up 3 of Bradley/Crowder/Smart/Brown. So if that's the case, whichever of them that's left is the 4th best player. I'd say Crowder/Bradley would be better than JR Smith so if we got left with one of them we'd have the edge there. If it's Smart of Brown we'd be worse.

After that it's Tristain Thompson who's definitely better than whoever BOS would have next (Amir Johnson). And keep going down the line. BOS's rotation would be rounded out by the likes of Kelly Olynyk, Jerebko, Rozier, Gerald Green. CLE would have Shumpert, Frye, Jefferson, etc. Probably a push, slight edge to BOS.

So if BOS made a trade, CLE would have better stars and comparable depth. They'd still be easily better. And we'd be drained of most of our avenues to continue to improve because we'd have no cap and be down the '17 BRK pick. It just wouldn't make sense. Sure they could win but it just isn't smart to sell out for a chance to maybe potentially pull off a sizable upset.

Don't you think if you got Butler it'd make Hayward or Griffin or whoever else more inclined to sign with you? I mean, what are you guys gonna do with all the 2nd rounders? Draft guys and send them to the D-League?

If you traded Bradley + Rozier + Crowder and a BRK 1st rounder + CLE 2nd rounder + Timberwolves 2nd rounder for Butler, you'd still have:

IT/Smart
Butler/Young
Brown/Green
Johnson/Olynyk
Horford/Zeller

Maybe you sign Hayward or Griffin in the offseason. Even after that, you STILL have:

-Marcus Smart
-Jaylen Brown
-2017 Clippers 2nd round pick
-2018 Celtics 1st round pick
-2018 Nets 1st round pick
-2019 Celtics 1st round pick
-2019 Grizzlies 1st round pick
-2019 Clippers 1st round pick
-2019 Pistons 2nd round pick
-2020 Celtics 1st round pick
-2020 Celtics 2nd round pick
-2020 Heat 2nd round pick
-2021 Celtics 1st round pick
-2021 Celtics 2nd round pick

So what if you can't beat the Cavs this year. Next year LeBron will be a year older, Butler will have more chemistry with the team, and you'll more than likely draw more interest because of the additional high-end talent already there. And you still got a **** TON of assets... I mean it's unbelievable how much you guys would still have. There's a laundry list of players who will have expiring contracts during the 2017-18 season that could be traded for.

That 2017 first round BRK pick may never be worth as much as it was before the deadline, because instead of trading for it in the offseason, teams will just wait until the lottery.

Ugggh, come on bro. Ainge screwed it up. Maybe you guys will be fine in the future, but this was a huge missed opportunity.

One Nut Kruk
02-25-2017, 06:07 PM
Pretending there's a better way is silly. It doesn't automatically mean they're better, but they have those records for a reason.

Not sure if that's directed at me but I'm not pretending there's a better way. Which is why I'd like to see them both at 100% meet in the playoffs

bagwell368
02-26-2017, 10:23 PM
The Celtics are at the point they need to go all-in. They're on the cusp . Unfortunately, this deadline was their best bet to add salary before paying Thomas. I can understand not meeting the ridiculous asking prices of Chicago and Indiana, but they were still in a good position to strengthen their bench. We know Noel, McDermott, and Taj all got moved, and Boston could have beaten those offers.

I don't think they have any choice but to pay Thomas and Bradley, and hope that those picks can contribute immediately and bolster the bench. They're going to have too much salary to add via trade without losing key players. Luckily they are very high picks.

Don't agree. AB is oft injured and not worth the ~$20M he's liable to get. IT is going to play here one more year cheap and then walk for a max. It would be a major mistake for anyone to sign IT for a max long term deal.


The team is going to look like:

5: Zizic, meh back-up
4: Horford, ""
3: Haywood, Crowder
2: Brown, Smart
1: IT, Fultz

Or if they fall out of the first two go for Isaac, and forget Haywood, and look for 5/4 instead.

Toss in the 18 BRK pick and wait until '19-'20

bagwell368
02-26-2017, 10:27 PM
Celtics: 37-21
Raptors: 34-24

That's not even counting the Celtics bad injury luck all year.

Avery Bradley has only been available for one of the four games they've faced the Raptors. That's allowed Lowry/Derozan to go off. Not having a first-team all defense guard in the lineup kind of hurts.

Enough. Raptors are clearly better right now and probably for the rest of the year. Boston will lose to any of 3 teams in the East, who cares if they win 60.

I've had to read this what 15 times on the Celt board.... We have an excellent regular season coach. Look at what Toronto minus their 2nd best player did to the C's the other night. IT gets doubled (like the playoffs last year - talk about shrinkage factor) and that's it.

North Yorker
02-26-2017, 10:28 PM
Don't agree. AB is oft injured and not worth the ~$20M he's liable to get. IT is going to play here one more year cheap and then walk for a max. It would be a major mistake for anyone to sign IT for a max long term deal.


The team is going to look like:

5: Zizic, meh back-up
4: Horford, ""
3: Haywood, Crowder
2: Brown, Smart
1: IT, Fultz

Or if they fall out of the first two go for Isaac, and forget Haywood, and look for 5/4 instead.

Toss in the 18 BRK pick and wait until '19-'20

Yes please sign Brendan Haywood and play him at the 3. He'll put you over the top.

bagwell368
02-26-2017, 10:31 PM
They need to listen to trade offers for the picks, cuz I'd hate to see the damn Celtics 'rebuild' again and add even more young'ins to their stash. IT has had an awakening after being a 'meh' player, you don't trade that. He's the new Iverson with a 3 ball in his skill set. You max him out (compared to other max deals, it's not a bad idea!) and try to sign a Gordon Hayward or trade for a Carmelo, or a Paul George, etc, etc. No use in having that many assets as championship teams only go 8-9 men deep and it's more about chemistry than talent. Horford, Hayward, IT...is a good start.

Notice what IT did in he playoffs last year? No nobody did. Get any good D in the playoffs and they are not going to let him prance into the paint, not without getting his little frame dumped to the floor about 3 times a night.

No way is IT a max player.

Haywood is a good idea that's been bandied about for two years. Carmelo is worthless rubbish. PG? Yeah wipe out half the team - no thanks.

Horford, Hayward, Fultz, Brown, Smart, and Crowder is a better one.

bagwell368
02-26-2017, 10:38 PM
Yes please sign Brendan Haywood and play him at the 3. He'll put you over the top.

No, Spencer Haywood

Knicks fan? No wonder you are here, your team has no future.

North Yorker
02-26-2017, 11:09 PM
No, Spencer Haywood

Knicks fan? No wonder you are here, your team has no future.

You don't have the cap space to sign Spencer, Brendan will have to do.

And Raps fan btw

JOSKOMANG4
02-27-2017, 04:07 PM
Go to the Bulls.. offer 1st overall pick, Jaylon Brown in exchanged for Jimmy Butler.


I'd say also go for Paul George, but i think it's a sure thing if the lakers get into the top 3 pick.. they'll package that w/Ingram for Paul George

Pfeifer
02-27-2017, 04:46 PM
IMO Raptors are the only team that can really challange the Cavs. Celtics have a great team but I think it will be another year or two before they trade positions with the Raps which is kind of inevitable. Just too many assets not to do something in the next 5 years. Could be scary.

celtNYpatsHeels
02-27-2017, 04:55 PM
This discussion is CRAZY. After reading all of this I have come to the conclusion that Isaiah is the most over rated player in the NBA. I hear people here in Boston talk about him all the time and over rate him. That's understandable. But to see some of these comments is unreal. People really think he is a max guy? Really? 30 mil a year for him? I hope the celtics are smart enough to not pay 30 mil a year for IT.

And did I really see one comment saying he is as good as Iverson? That's so laughable.

The NBA now a days is just horrible. The only way the celtics can compete with Cleveland over the next 3 years is to trade for Paul George on draft night and sign Blake griffin in free agency. I'd give that a 5 percent chance of actually happening.

Lebron has ruined the eastern conference with his super teams in Miami and now his super teams in Cleveland. The only teams that can beat them (and golden state too) are teams who can somehow find a way to put 3guys who are top 15 players in the league all together.

Forever35
02-27-2017, 05:13 PM
This discussion is CRAZY. After reading all of this I have come to the conclusion that Isaiah is the most over rated player in the NBA. I hear people here in Boston talk about him all the time and over rate him. That's understandable. But to see some of these comments is unreal. People really think he is a max guy? Really? 30 mil a year for him? I hope the celtics are smart enough to not pay 30 mil a year for IT.

And did I really see one comment saying he is as good as Iverson? That's so laughable.

The NBA now a days is just horrible. The only way the celtics can compete with Cleveland over the next 3 years is to trade for Paul George on draft night and sign Blake griffin in free agency. I'd give that a 5 percent chance of actually happening.

Lebron has ruined the eastern conference with his super teams in Miami and now his super teams in Cleveland. The only teams that can beat them (and golden state too) are teams who can somehow find a way to put 3guys who are top 15 players in the league all together.

Players that score 29+ppg and their team is headed for the lottery is overrated IMO... IT is scoring 29ppg and his team will end up being a top 4 playoff team because of him... That's not being overrated, that's playing up to or past your ability...

hugepatsfan
02-27-2017, 06:05 PM
IMO Raptors are the only team that can really challange the Cavs. Celtics have a great team but I think it will be another year or two before they trade positions with the Raps which is kind of inevitable. Just too many assets not to do something in the next 5 years. Could be scary.

I agree wholeheartedly. I think TOR is better today (if Lowry were healthy I mean) but they're capped out. I don't see a ton of flexibility to get better. BOS to me still has tons of room to grow. Or flop but obviously as a Celtics fan I will look on the optimistic side lol

IndyRealist
02-27-2017, 06:21 PM
This discussion is CRAZY. After reading all of this I have come to the conclusion that Isaiah is the most over rated player in the NBA. I hear people here in Boston talk about him all the time and over rate him. That's understandable. But to see some of these comments is unreal. People really think he is a max guy? Really? 30 mil a year for him? I hope the celtics are smart enough to not pay 30 mil a year for IT.

And did I really see one comment saying he is as good as Iverson? That's so laughable.

The NBA now a days is just horrible. The only way the celtics can compete with Cleveland over the next 3 years is to trade for Paul George on draft night and sign Blake griffin in free agency. I'd give that a 5 percent chance of actually happening.

Lebron has ruined the eastern conference with his super teams in Miami and now his super teams in Cleveland. The only teams that can beat them (and golden state too) are teams who can somehow find a way to put 3guys who are top 15 players in the league all together.

62.8% TS, better than 2:1 ast:to, averages a free throw every 4 minutes and shoots 91% from the line. Yeah, he's pretty good.

Pfeifer
02-27-2017, 06:44 PM
I agree wholeheartedly. I think TOR is better today (if Lowry were healthy I mean) but they're capped out. I don't see a ton of flexibility to get better. BOS to me still has tons of room to grow. Or flop but obviously as a Celtics fan I will look on the optimistic side lol

For sure.

ewing
02-27-2017, 08:19 PM
62.8% TS, better than 2:1 ast:to, averages a free throw every 4 minutes and shoots 91% from the line. Yeah, he's pretty good.

Seriously some of these "Celtic fans" seem jealous of the tankers

hugepatsfan
02-27-2017, 09:31 PM
62.8% TS, better than 2:1 ast:to, averages a free throw every 4 minutes and shoots 91% from the line. Yeah, he's pretty good.

Agreed. I think the fact that he's terrible on D and so small just makes people always hesitate to believe it. I love the guy but I'll admit it just feels fluky to me. It's unreal the numbers he puts up. I don't mean for his size - I mean in general for anyone. But it just feels like it'll come crashing down on him.

I think the improvement we've made shooting wise has really helped. Horford over Sullinger has been huge. Crowder has improved. Smart's 3 point % is bad but still significantly better than last year. Brown's shot isn't good but it's better than Turner's. We've committed to Olynyk/Jerebko as the backup bigs (no Zeller being mixed in). He has more room to operate now and it's paid huge dividends.

celtNYpatsHeels
02-27-2017, 09:48 PM
Seriously some of these "Celtic fans" seem jealous of the tankers

Yeah your right I'm jealous of the knicks.

I never said Isaiah wasn't good. I said he's overrated. There's a huge difference.

ewing
02-27-2017, 10:48 PM
Agreed. I think the fact that he's terrible on D and so small just makes people always hesitate to believe it. I love the guy but I'll admit it just feels fluky to me. It's unreal the numbers he puts up. I don't mean for his size - I mean in general for anyone. But it just feels like it'll come crashing down on him.

I think the improvement we've made shooting wise has really helped. Horford over Sullinger has been huge. Crowder has improved. Smart's 3 point % is bad but still significantly better than last year. Brown's shot isn't good but it's better than Turner's. We've committed to Olynyk/Jerebko as the backup bigs (no Zeller being mixed in). He has more room to operate now and it's paid huge dividends.

If you put shooters and defenders around him he is a force. He has to be ball dominate but he just collapses defenses. Needs the right personal but definitely worth building arround


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ewing
02-27-2017, 10:50 PM
Yeah your right I'm jealous of the knicks.

I never said Isaiah wasn't good. I said he's overrated. There's a huge difference.

I been telling people here he is the most underrated player on the league for 2 years. He deserve alittle hype


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

leprechaun5
02-28-2017, 05:44 AM
Isaiah is overrated a ton. To hear people consider him a MVP candidate is just awfully wrong. He's the worst defender in the league. Just kills the team on that end. He's a great scorer but that's it. Not a top 25 player in this league.

IndyRealist
02-28-2017, 09:54 AM
Mike and Mike this morning said Thomas rightfully deserves to be in the MVP conversation. They were talking win shares of all things where he ranks #2, behind Harden and ahead of Lebron.

nycericanguy
02-28-2017, 09:59 AM
Agreed. I think the fact that he's terrible on D and so small just makes people always hesitate to believe it. I love the guy but I'll admit it just feels fluky to me. It's unreal the numbers he puts up. I don't mean for his size - I mean in general for anyone. But it just feels like it'll come crashing down on him.

I think the improvement we've made shooting wise has really helped. Horford over Sullinger has been huge. Crowder has improved. Smart's 3 point % is bad but still significantly better than last year. Brown's shot isn't good but it's better than Turner's. We've committed to Olynyk/Jerebko as the backup bigs (no Zeller being mixed in). He has more room to operate now and it's paid huge dividends.

yea I just can never fully buy in to IT. I think obviously it's a PG's league now and there are so many PG's putting up huge scoring numbers. But IT is scoring more per minute than even MJ did... seems fluky. And guys that small tend to have short primes. He's a guy that relies on being quicker than everyone and that doesn't age well.

he's really having a season for the ages though and he's def an MVP candidate... just cringe at paying him $30m+ per year until he's 33.

ewing
02-28-2017, 12:06 PM
Isaiah is overrated a ton. To hear people consider him a MVP candidate is just awfully wrong. He's the worst defender in the league. Just kills the team on that end. He's a great scorer but that's it. Not a top 25 player in this league.

you team is second on the east and they would suck without him

Hawkeye15
02-28-2017, 12:41 PM
Isaiah is overrated a ton. To hear people consider him a MVP candidate is just awfully wrong. He's the worst defender in the league. Just kills the team on that end. He's a great scorer but that's it. Not a top 25 player in this league.

He is good enough offensively to offset his horrible defense though, and then some.

While I agree, he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation, he is one of the top offensive PG's in the game, pretty easily.

celtNYpatsHeels
02-28-2017, 04:43 PM
you team is second on the east and they would suck without him

Against the cavs raptors wizards warriors spurs rockets clippers and thunder (best teams in the NBA) the Celtics have 4 wins and 13 losses. One of those 4 wins was against the clippers with no Chris Paul and Blake griffins first game back.

The Celtics are a very long way away from being contenders.

Green_Monster
02-28-2017, 04:54 PM
Against the cavs raptors wizards warriors spurs rockets clippers and thunder (best teams in the NBA) the Celtics have 4 wins and 13 losses. One of those 4 wins was against the clippers with no Chris Paul and Blake griffins first game back.

The Celtics are a very long way away from being contenders.

Lol at throwing that out. All the did was make your argument worse. The Celtics have had terrible injury luck. Bringing up injuries doesn't help you. How many of those games were the Celtics missing at least one top four player, if not two?

Green_Monster
02-28-2017, 04:56 PM
29.6 PPG on .622 TS% is crazy.

His offense far outweighs his defense.

celtNYpatsHeels
02-28-2017, 05:17 PM
Lol at throwing that out. All the did was make your argument worse. The Celtics have had terrible injury luck. Bringing up injuries doesn't help you. How many of those games were the Celtics missing at least one top four player, if not two?

I didn't realize the celtics playing without Avery Bradley was equal to the clippers playing without Chris Paul.

Green_Monster
02-28-2017, 05:27 PM
I didn't realize the celtics playing without Avery Bradley was equal to the clippers playing without Chris Paul.

Oh, did I say that?

Bringing up injuries was silly when the Celtics have had terrible injury luck. Try again.

ewing
02-28-2017, 05:46 PM
Haters

PurpleLynch
02-28-2017, 07:22 PM
They have to land a third star(after Horford and Thomas) and keep this team philosophy in the long run. They will build around Thomas, who is ball dominant,so they have to pick shooters(Reddick is unrestricted next year)and a defensive minded big(Bogut or Ibaka?),sliding Horford to PF. Keep Smart and Olynyk for the bench also. Crowder and Bradley as role players are important,they should keep them too.

albertajaysfan
02-28-2017, 08:16 PM
You sound like LeBron :). you are not going to get a sure thing. you have a good young 50+ win team with the flexibility to try an improve, you don't throw away the best player on your team and go with some rookie who may or may not turn into something and is probably years away regardless.

Trading does not equal throwing away.

Green_Monster
02-28-2017, 08:47 PM
Haters

It's the weirdest thing. Usually the hate comes from other fan bases.

For this years Celtics team, most of it comes from our own fans. I've never seen a Boston fan base be so pessimistic being second in their conference with a 38-22 record.

We're not beating the Cavs/Warriors, but damn, you'd think we were in last place with **** contracts and no assets.

leprechaun5
03-01-2017, 03:32 AM
It's the weirdest thing. Usually the hate comes from other fan bases.

For this years Celtics team, most of it comes from our own fans. I've never seen a Boston fan base be so pessimistic being second in their conference with a 38-22 record.

We're not beating the Cavs/Warriors, but damn, you'd think we were in last place with **** contracts and no assets.

It's not hate. It's reality.

celtNYpatsHeels
03-01-2017, 11:12 AM
It's the weirdest thing. Usually the hate comes from other fan bases.

For this years Celtics team, most of it comes from our own fans. I've never seen a Boston fan base be so pessimistic being second in their conference with a 38-22 record.

We're not beating the Cavs/Warriors, but damn, you'd think we were in last place with **** contracts and no assets.


I mean if you are content with barely squeezing out wins against the pistons and 76ers during the middle of the season then you can tout that 38 and 22 record all you want.

It's not hate it's reality. The reality is that this Celtics team is nowhere near being competitive with the actual championship contending teams in the NBA. Are they fun to watch? Absolutely. Do I route for them to win every night? Yup I do. But they have no top end talent. Maybe those assets and good contracts can turn into top end talent one day. But until then, this team can be the 2 seed all it wants. Their playoff season is going to end very early.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-01-2017, 11:57 AM
Bucks dont make playoffs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With Parker out till next year February. Middleton on minutes restriction. Moose may bolt. Bucks probably wont sniff playoffs next season either. Kinda grim outlook. Unless the east falls apart. Also dead weight contracts in Delly, Telly, Henson and probably a over pay for Snell next summer. I don't see any bright spots. Besides Kidd is still here with his lame defense schemes. Shame that Lillard rumor was bogus. Bucks need another beast of a scorer like Lillard on the team. I would of put up a godfather offer if I was Bucks GM.

Outside of Giannis rest of this season's team is G-League. Plus the big scare in the hyperextension of Beasley knee. Team might as well fold up shop and count them lottery balls next two drafts. Wait for the championship window to open in 3 years. By then LeBron should be on his last legs. Raptors backcourt be expensive and aging. So all left in the east is Celtics and maybe if Heat land something good or 76ers can stay healthy. East looks a bit lame. Bulls/Pacers haven't decided to continue treadmill of playoffs or start over.

Green_Monster
03-01-2017, 03:18 PM
It's not hate. It's reality.

It really isn't though.

Reality is 38-22.

Green_Monster
03-01-2017, 03:21 PM
I mean if you are content with barely squeezing out wins against the pistons and 76ers during the middle of the season then you can tout that 38 and 22 record all you want.

The fact that you're pointing to two individual games says all we need to know. Any team can lose to any team. Teams have bad nights. The only fact is their record, 38-22.


It's not hate it's reality. The reality is that this Celtics team is nowhere near being competitive with the actual championship contending teams in the NBA. Are they fun to watch? Absolutely. Do I route for them to win every night? Yup I do. But they have no top end talent. Maybe those assets and good contracts can turn into top end talent one day. But until then, this team can be the 2 seed all it wants. Their playoff season is going to end very early.

Isaiah Thomas is top end talent.

This is just silly at this point. You keep throwing out ridiculous statements to hide the fact that you can't accept their record.

ewing
03-01-2017, 03:52 PM
The fact that you're pointing to two individual games says all we need to know. Any team can lose to any team. Teams have bad nights. The only fact is their record, 38-22.



Isaiah Thomas is top end talent.

This is just silly at this point. You keep throwing out ridiculous statements to hide the fact that you can't accept their record.


you are supposed to lose every game until you land Wilt Chamberlain. Didn't you know that? This Thomas guy through a monkey wrench in everything by making the team pretty good.

LOb0
03-01-2017, 04:03 PM
I mean if you are content with barely squeezing out wins against the pistons and 76ers during the middle of the season then you can tout that 38 and 22 record all you want.

It's not hate it's reality. The reality is that this Celtics team is nowhere near being competitive with the actual championship contending teams in the NBA. Are they fun to watch? Absolutely. Do I route for them to win every night? Yup I do. But they have no top end talent. Maybe those assets and good contracts can turn into top end talent one day. But until then, this team can be the 2 seed all it wants. Their playoff season is going to end very early.


lol so we're not on the Warriors and Cavs level like 27 other teams. How horrible that we're a 2 seed with the highest draft percentage in the league.

ewing
03-01-2017, 04:11 PM
lol so we're not on the Warriors and Cavs level like 27 other teams. How horrible that we're a 2 seed with the highest draft percentage in the league.



Larry Bird is not walking though that door!, Kevin McHale is not walking through that door!, Robert Parish is not walking through that door!

Green_Monster
03-01-2017, 04:29 PM
you are supposed to lose every game until you land Wilt Chamberlain. Didn't you know that? This Thomas guy through a monkey wrench in everything by making the team pretty good.

I really don't get it man. I'm not even saying they'll get to the Finals (because they won't). But they're a damn good team that gets looked at like they're garbage. It's the weirdest ****ing thing.

celtNYpatsHeels
03-01-2017, 04:34 PM
The fact that you're pointing to two individual games says all we need to know. Any team can lose to any team. Teams have bad nights. The only fact is their record, 38-22.



Isaiah Thomas is top end talent.

This is just silly at this point. You keep throwing out ridiculous statements to hide the fact that you can't accept their record.

Well I don't know what to tell you. I can accept their record. I'm happy they have such a good record and I'm happy to see it with such a speedy turn around time with this "rebuild". The fact of the matter is that this team doesn't have any top end talent right now. Brown could be one day. The nets picks could be one day. A trade could happen one day.

But Isaiah isn't top end. Neither is horford or crowder or whoever else you like. The biggest mistake this team can make is committing 30 million plus to each of horford and Isaiah

ewing
03-01-2017, 04:43 PM
I really don't get it man. I'm not even saying they'll get to the Finals (because they won't). But they're a damn good team that gets looked at like they're garbage. It's the weirdest ****ing thing.


It's the generation man. Do nothing unless its a sure thing.

LOb0
03-01-2017, 04:51 PM
I really don't get it man. I'm not even saying they'll get to the Finals (because they won't). But they're a damn good team that gets looked at like they're garbage. It's the weirdest ****ing thing.

Its gotta be because we have the assets to improve the team. But what people don't seem to understand is you do not overpay for talent when you're still not going to be good enough.

If we got say Durant in the offseason? Then you can overpay for Jimmy Butler. Not now when we'd lose anyway.

Green_Monster
03-01-2017, 04:52 PM
Well I don't know what to tell you. I can accept their record. I'm happy they have such a good record and I'm happy to see it with such a speedy turn around time with this "rebuild". The fact of the matter is that this team doesn't have any top end talent right now. Brown could be one day. The nets picks could be one day. A trade could happen one day.

But Isaiah isn't top end. Neither is horford or crowder or whoever else you like. The biggest mistake this team can make is committing 30 million plus to each of horford and Isaiah

Good lord.

Thomas is scoring 29.6 PPG with great efficiency (.622 TS%). He has a 26.9 PER and .236 WS/48. If that isn't "top end", I don't know what is.

ewing
03-01-2017, 06:29 PM
Good lord.

Thomas is scoring 29.6 PPG with great efficiency (.622 TS%). He has a 26.9 PER and .236 WS/48. If that isn't "top end", I don't know what is.

He's not Wilt Chamberlain.

ewing
03-01-2017, 10:44 PM
This team was 4th in defensive rating last year. imagine how much worse they would have been on O without Thomas and how much better they would have been on D- not much. These guys are just disappointed the team isn't tanking


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bagwell368
03-01-2017, 11:16 PM
It's the weirdest thing. Usually the hate comes from other fan bases.

For this years Celtics team, most of it comes from our own fans. I've never seen a Boston fan base be so pessimistic being second in their conference with a 38-22 record.

We're not beating the Cavs/Warriors, but damn, you'd think we were in last place with **** contracts and no assets.

We have to hear this on the C's board all the time. We point out the EC is weaker then the WC and he starts talking seeding as if the C's are on of the 4 best teams in the NBA.

We point out that players of IT's size don't hold up, and that IT's D sucks, and he comes back with effort arguments.

Calls the more mature fans negative, I guess because we have a fund of historical knowledge and he thinks willpower, hope, and faith will do the job.

bagwell368
03-01-2017, 11:22 PM
I really don't get it man. I'm not even saying they'll get to the Finals (because they won't). But they're a damn good team that gets looked at like they're garbage. It's the weirdest ****ing thing.

It's all in your head. I'm watching them right now, great game. Fun team. I just think they are very vulnerable to TOR and WAS and somewhat ATL - before they eve get to CLE. No one said they are garbage, but nobody is buying your seeding argument, and they still have two weeks in front of them that are rough. I checked out the winning % of the West v East about 5 weeks ago and it was like .560 for the West.

I said the C's were somewhere between 8-13 in the NBA 6 weeks back. IT has gotten hot, but now that he's getting doubled just like last years playoffs his scoring and efficiency dries up.

Not paying attention to these facts is willfully optimistic - even borderline childish.

ewing
03-01-2017, 11:25 PM
It's all in your head. I'm watching them right now, great game. Fun team. I just think they are very vulnerable to TOR and WAS and somewhat ATL - before they eve get to CLE. No one said they are garbage, but nobody is buying your seeding argument, and they still have two weeks in front of them that are rough. I checked out the winning % of the West v East about 5 weeks ago and it was like .560 for the West.

I said the C's were somewhere between 8-13 in the NBA 6 weeks back. IT has gotten hot, but now that he's getting doubled just like last years playoffs his scoring and efficiency dries up.

Not paying attention to these facts is willfully optimistic - even borderline childish.

Maybe you guys should have more then one guy that can put it in the hole


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ewing
03-01-2017, 11:30 PM
This guy is play maker. He ain't just a scorer.


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bagwell368
03-01-2017, 11:32 PM
Maybe you guys should have more then one guy that can put it in the hole


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In today's NBA, 100% true which is why dealing for PG would have been suicide.

BRK pick, Brown, Hayward; deal IT and a pick for a usable 5; use IT for one year while our drafted PG is getting up to speed, then let him go.

Huge mistake to give IT the max.

ewing
03-01-2017, 11:36 PM
In today's NBA, 100% true which is why dealing for PG would have been suicide.

BRK pick, Brown, Hayward; deal IT and a pick for a usable 5; use IT for one year while our drafted PG is getting up to speed, then let him go.

Huge mistake to give IT the max.

PG can put the ball in the hole. IT certainly can put the ball in the hole.


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ewing
03-01-2017, 11:38 PM
What else does this guy have to do for Boston?


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Green_Monster
03-02-2017, 12:00 AM
We have to hear this on the C's board all the time. We point out the EC is weaker then the WC and he starts talking seeding as if the C's are on of the 4 best teams in the NBA.

Well this is false. Off to a good start.


We point out that players of IT's size don't hold up, and that IT's D sucks, and he comes back with effort arguments.

His offense far outweighs his defense. Advanced statistics, the eye test, literally anything will tell you this.


Calls the more mature fans negative, I guess because we have a fund of historical knowledge and he thinks willpower, hope, and faith will do the job.

I forgot you played college basketball so you're basically Greg Popovich.

Green_Monster
03-02-2017, 12:03 AM
It's all in your head. I'm watching them right now, great game. Fun team. I just think they are very vulnerable to TOR and WAS and somewhat ATL - before they eve get to CLE. No one said they are garbage, but nobody is buying your seeding argument, and they still have two weeks in front of them that are rough. I checked out the winning % of the West v East about 5 weeks ago and it was like .560 for the West.

Seeding argument? There you go again in your fantasy land.

They have the easiest strength of schedule left. :laugh2:


I said the C's were somewhere between 8-13 in the NBA 6 weeks back. IT has gotten hot, but now that he's getting doubled just like last years playoffs his scoring and efficiency dries up.

Not paying attention to these facts is willfully optimistic - even borderline childish.

That was false 6 weeks ago and still is now. Try again.

leprechaun5
03-02-2017, 03:33 AM
It really isn't though.

Reality is 38-22.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18792247

Jeffy25
03-02-2017, 06:02 AM
A lot will depend on what happens in the playoffs. I don't really see a path forward with Thomas and Horford (both very good NBA players). The problem is always going to be staring at GS in the finals. I was fine with standing pat at the deadline. I certainly didn't like some of the proposed deals for Butler and George out there. 2 or 3 of Brown, Smart, Bradley and Crowder Plus nets pick(s) is just too much IMHO. I think if we end up with the 1 or 2 in the draft we should draft Fultz / Ball and deal Thomas. The Nets 18' pick should be at the top as well, so by the time Brown, Fultz 18' pick are 25ish hopefully GSW are a little more tired.

Butler and George didn't fit the Celtics in the first place, those guys would have really messed with their team and flow.

Take the best player in the draft next year that will play team ball into their system. Keep Horford and Thomas and keep building assets for a potential contender. The talent is there to go deep and challenge the Cavs. Maybe they don't top it this year, but they aren't far off from reaching the Finals. And getting a top draft pick is a sure fire way to keep building.

Take the top guard and move Smart and give the new guard his 30 minutes. He'll develop and win, whoever they decide to take.

Vinylman
03-02-2017, 08:05 AM
This entire time I thought Thomas and Bradley were up this summer. It's next summer. Definitely better not to make a deal and see how it pans out in free agency.

but they can sign extensions so the commitments have to be made you would think.

Vinylman
03-02-2017, 08:09 AM
Celtics lost their chance to acquire Butler & George.

If the lakers get a top 3 pick: Lakers trade Ingram & 3rd overall pick to Indy for Paul George

Pacers lineup: Turner/Young/Ingram/Miles/Dennis Smith

Lakers lineup:

Mosgov/Randle/George/Clarkson/Randle

The timberwolves will trade 6th overall pick, 2018 1st rd pick, & C/F G.Dieng to bulls for Robin Lopez & Jimmy butler.

MIN: Lopez/Towns/Butler/Wiggins/Rubio

Bulls: Dieng/mirotic/Tatum/Wade/Payne

Lakers would be stupid to do that deal...


Unfortunately, since Magic is in charge it might happen... but Indy would have to take back either Deng or Mozgov

Pelinka needs to do his job like every other GM and tamper to find out if George will come to LA as a FA

My belief is no because I think this whole charade is to make sure the notoriously cheap Pacers offer the supermax

Vinylman
03-02-2017, 08:48 AM
Good lord.

Thomas is scoring 29.6 PPG with great efficiency (.622 TS%). He has a 26.9 PER and .236 WS/48. If that isn't "top end", I don't know what is.

I know this guy who in 24 minutes a game this year is averaging 18.6 PPG (.61 TS%). He has a 24.0 PER and a .177 WS/48 ... He isn't high end

and he sure as **** ain't worth even $15 million per year

Vinylman
03-02-2017, 08:52 AM
Butler and George didn't fit the Celtics in the first place, those guys would have really messed with their team and flow.

Take the best player in the draft next year that will play team ball into their system. Keep Horford and Thomas and keep building assets for a potential contender. The talent is there to go deep and challenge the Cavs. Maybe they don't top it this year, but they aren't far off from reaching the Finals. And getting a top draft pick is a sure fire way to keep building.

Take the top guard and move Smart and give the new guard his 30 minutes. He'll develop and win, whoever they decide to take.

You are worried about butler and George messing up chemistry but not a Fultz :confused:

Dude is a score first PG that has to have the ball...

not to mention he has a knee issue

ewing
03-02-2017, 09:01 AM
Butler and George didn't fit the Celtics in the first place, those guys would have really messed with their team and flow.

Take the best player in the draft next year that will play team ball into their system. Keep Horford and Thomas and keep building assets for a potential contender. The talent is there to go deep and challenge the Cavs. Maybe they don't top it this year, but they aren't far off from reaching the Finals. And getting a top draft pick is a sure fire way to keep building.

Take the top guard and move Smart and give the new guard his 30 minutes. He'll develop and win, whoever they decide to take.


I think those two fit fine. Some people were talking about Boston trading for DC and i don't think he would fit but the others fit fine. Weather the asking price was too high is a different question but i don't see why they wouldn't fit

ewing
03-02-2017, 09:03 AM
I know this guy who in 24 minutes a game this year is averaging 18.6 PPG (.61 TS%). He has a 24.0 PER and a .177 WS/48 ... He isn't high end

and he sure as **** ain't worth even $15 million per year

is he the by far the biggest reason his team will win 50 games in back to back seasons?

Vinylman
03-02-2017, 09:12 AM
is he the by far the biggest reason his team will win 50 games in back to back seasons?

ummm... I didn't realize Danny Ainge was suiting up.

IT is currently a great value... if they sign him to a supermax he will end up being one of the worse deals in the league by year 3 of that deal...

ewing
03-02-2017, 09:16 AM
ummm... I didn't realize Danny Ainge was suiting up.

IT is currently a great value... if they sign him to a supermax he will end up being one of the worse deals in the league by year 3 of that deal...

Wait, what? Danny Ainge is winning them games? That makes less sense then last year when very on here acted like Stevens was putting the ball in the basket for Thomas. As for the year 3 thing ok, kreskin.

ewing
03-02-2017, 09:17 AM
never seen so many people upset that there team doesn't suck and is in a position to take some risks and try and become very legit.

Jeffy25
03-02-2017, 09:28 AM
I think those two fit fine. Some people were talking about Boston trading for DC and i don't think he would fit but the others fit fine. Weather the asking price was too high is a different question but i don't see why they wouldn't fit

Based on the way the Celtics offense rhythms, I feel like both would slow that rhythm down and breaking into isolation or looking for ways for them to score individually.

They don't need a superstar to win in Boston. They just need more team ball and defense.

Green_Monster
03-02-2017, 10:13 AM
I know this guy who in 24 minutes a game this year is averaging 18.6 PPG (.61 TS%). He has a 24.0 PER and a .177 WS/48 ... He isn't high end

and he sure as **** ain't worth even $15 million per year

So basically significantly worse numbers than Thomas across the board? I like the comparison.

Forever35
03-02-2017, 10:22 AM
In 16'/17' he should finish at 29ppg being paid 6.6mil and at best making the ECF...

In 17'/18' he should be able to finish at 24-25ppg being paid 6.3mil and at best making the ECF...

That's as far as I'll predict...

ewing
03-02-2017, 02:11 PM
Based on the way the Celtics offense rhythms, I feel like both would slow that rhythm down and breaking into isolation or looking for ways for them to score individually.

They don't need a superstar to win in Boston. They just need more team ball and defense.

Both guys can catch and shoot, run the floor, and finish. Both are also long versatile defenders. They would give the Celts the ISO option when ball movement and IT's penetration aren't their but I think that is a good thing. Idk I don't see either needing to be ball dominate


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Vinylman
03-02-2017, 03:37 PM
So basically significantly worse numbers than Thomas across the board? I like the comparison.

I think you missed the point ... and if you think those number are significantly worse... I don't know what to say

Minutes impact the PPG... on a per 36 they are within a couple of points... TS% is about the same ... PER is not significantly different

Anyway... the guy I listed makes $7 million a year and plays the same position

IT is a nice player in an ideal environment... selling him based on his numbers is dumb because once another elite player is added his numbers will regresss significantly (see Curry this year)

Anyway, the perception of him is extremely positive based on his salary... he is phenomenal VALUE... unfortunately, that value is destroyed if they sign him to a supermax extension... there is no way he should be taking up 30% of any teams payroll and that is why Ainge won't extend him before next season unless he takes a pretty large discount.

Ainge is playing the hand he has been dealt extremely well...

He didn't do the deadline deal so that he can sign a FA he wants this summer... once that has played out he will be back in the trade market to unload his massive stash of assets.

Green_Monster
03-02-2017, 04:25 PM
I think you missed the point ... and if you think those number are significantly worse... I don't know what to say

Minutes impact the PPG... on a per 36 they are within a couple of points... TS% is about the same ... PER is not significantly different

There's a reason that other player doesn't play as much. Not sure why this needs to be explained. Some players who don't play many minutes have great advanced stats. If you increase their minutes, the stats go down.


Anyway... the guy I listed makes $7 million a year and plays the same position

IT is a nice player in an ideal environment... selling him based on his numbers is dumb because once another elite player is added his numbers will regresss significantly (see Curry this year)

Is Curry any less talented than he was last year? Nope.


Anyway, the perception of him is extremely positive based on his salary... he is phenomenal VALUE... unfortunately, that value is destroyed if they sign him to a supermax extension... there is no way he should be taking up 30% of any teams payroll and that is why Ainge won't extend him before next season unless he takes a pretty large discount.

Ainge is playing the hand he has been dealt extremely well...

He didn't do the deadline deal so that he can sign a FA he wants this summer... once that has played out he will be back in the trade market to unload his massive stash of assets.

Correct, Ainge knows what he's doing.

bagwell368
03-02-2017, 07:34 PM
PG can put the ball in the hole. IT certainly can put the ball in the hole.


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Sure can. Have you watched Brown and Smart in the past month? Those guys, Crowder (a nice 7th guy), and this years #1 for one guy at the max. I see Brown as the starting #2, Smart as the 3rd guard, our drafted guard as the PG (back-up as a rookie), and AB out in a deal and IT out after next year. Lots of money for a max that just costs money and not players.

PG/IT/Horford with a weaker team that they have now behind them is not going to win a title and not beat CLE while James is healthy. That's pretty much is where we are now. Why get cleared out for 1 guy? A great player, he's not in the top 5, he can't bring a title as the lead. As the 2nd? Outstanding. Where do we get the #1 in high cost, cold, high tax, crazy traffic Boston. Trade or draft. Nobody is trading a top 5, that leaves it to drafting a guy like Fultz.

bagwell368
03-02-2017, 07:40 PM
Based on the way the Celtics offense rhythms, I feel like both would slow that rhythm down and breaking into isolation or looking for ways for them to score individually.

They don't need a superstar to win in Boston. They just need more team ball and defense.

Since 1974 you have two teams that did it that way. In this league you need high efficiency scorers (2 better 3). A few specialists, and guys that turn on the D in the playoffs because big time D in the regular season is rare overall.

PG would fit fine but totally blow up the chance for the C's as a top 5 team due to the huge resources demanded.

ewing
03-02-2017, 07:40 PM
Sure can. Have you watched Brown and Smart in the past month? Those guys, Crowder (a nice 7th guy), and this years #1 for one guy at the max. I see Brown as the starting #2, Smart as the 3rd guard, our drafted guard as the PG (back-up as a rookie), and AB out in a deal and IT out after next year. Lots of money for a max that just costs money and not players.

PG/IT/Horford with a weaker team that they have now behind them is not going to win a title and not beat CLE while James is healthy. That's pretty much is where we are now. Why get cleared out for 1 guy? A great player, he's not in the top 5, he can't bring a title as the lead. As the 2nd? Outstanding. Where do we get the #1 in high cost, cold, high tax, crazy traffic Boston. Trade or draft. Nobody is trading a top 5, that leaves it to drafting a guy like Fultz.

Why not? I don't understand why you think your pipe dream of blowing it up and everything falling falling into place has a better shot then a team with those 3. Those 3 are top level talent. Yes, James is still the best but PG is as good a wing as you match with him outside of KL. IT is every bit as good a scorer as Irving and a better player IMO, and Hartford and Love is a good match up.