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View Full Version : Bogut and Deron Williams "expected to sign" with Cavs?



Scoots
02-24-2017, 10:52 AM
Who do the Cavs cut? Do they make the Cavs the clear favorite?

Cut McCrae?

I'd say Bogut and Williams COULD make a key difference, but if Bogut can't stay on the floor against the Warriors and Williams doesn't play D any better than he has been then they make very little difference in the playoffs.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 10:54 AM
While Deron isn't anything like he was, he is a HUGE upgrade at the backup PG position. Bogut is a nice defensive big for the rotation, that can help in matchups.

Yanks All Day
02-24-2017, 11:04 AM
Bogut would just be a defensive big for the rotation and not expected to play big minutes unless injuries happen. He'd certainly give up play time to Love, Thompson, and Frye, given how the Cavs play. Can't see him playing more than 7 or 8 minutes per game on a normal night, but signing him can be a big move because he could sign with another contender and play a big role AGAINST Cleveland. I'd bring him on just for that reason alone.

Deron Williams would be a big pickup, actually. They desperately need a backup point guard. Not to run the offense, but to let them confidently sit Kyrie and not force LeBron to handle the ball all the time. Cleveland already has enough shooters, defenders, and rebounders. At some point, they're looking for someone to give LeBron and Kyrie in-game rest where they can play off ball and pick and choose their spots to attack. Deron can certainly provide that.

I'd be shocked if one or both didn't sign in Cleveland when able.

ewing
02-24-2017, 11:06 AM
:facepalm:

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 11:13 AM
Who do the Cavs cut? Do they make the Cavs the clear favorite?

Cut McCrae?

I'd say Bogut and Williams COULD make a key difference, but if Bogut can't stay on the floor against the Warriors and Williams doesn't play D any better than he has been then they make very little difference in the playoffs.

Where are you getting your information from? You can't make a post like this and put something in quotation marks without providing a source for your information. Was it Woj? Stein? Spears?

Because this seems pretty vague at this point. I saw some stuff yesterday on Twitter—I think it was from Stein—suggesting that Wiliams was practically a lock to sign with Cleveland. But I have yet to see anything indicating where Bogut is likely to sign.

Avenged
02-24-2017, 11:14 AM
This is huge. You know LeBron will milk any bit of gas they have left.

Scoots
02-24-2017, 11:24 AM
Where are you getting your information from? You can't make a post like this and put something in quotation marks without providing a source for your information. Was it Woj? Stein? Spears?

Because this seems pretty vague at this point. I saw some stuff yesterday on Twitter—I think it was from Stein—suggesting that Wiliams was practically a lock to sign with Cleveland. But I have yet to see anything indicating where Bogut is likely to sign.

Stein, Woj, and some others ... it's all preliminary since no moves can happen yet and Bogut supposedly has some interest from Houston and a couple other teams too.

Bogut wanting to go to a contender is a pretty easy guess, but he loves to yank people around so he may have dropped the Cavs name just to jerk people around.

Regardless, I don't know that the current version of Williams and Bogut are game changers for the Cavs. Probably the biggest difference they would make is that they might let the Cavs stars play fewer minutes and still get to the playoffs with a #1 seed.

Vee-Rex
02-24-2017, 11:30 AM
Williams seems to be a lock from many different sources, including Stein, as long as he doesn't get claimed off waivers.

Bogut isn't a lock but the Cavs seem to be an option along with Houston, GS, and San Antonio.

We have 1 roster spot open and I'm fairly sure McRae would get cut to open a 2nd. Champ is practically as untouchable as LeBron lol, Liggins has defense that may be needed here and there if we have injuries, and Felder still a rookie that we won't give up on unless we absolutely needed to get rid of him.

Deron Williams is having a good year and would be an excellent backup point guard for us. I'm not really worried about his defense since I think he'd be an upgrade over Felder and his ability to score and get assists is much better. He's like 3rd in PPP in the Pick-n-Roll in the entire league.

RLundi
02-24-2017, 11:32 AM
The NBA is kind of turning into a joke. All these super teams and the Cavs get even stronger? Where's the intrigue? Does anyone REALLY believe anyone other than GS and Cleveland will be in the Finals for a third straight year, especially when teams don't mind cutting ring-chasing veterans?

IKnowHoops
02-24-2017, 11:34 AM
:facepalm:

Pain personified

Vee-Rex
02-24-2017, 11:35 AM
Stein, Woj, and some others ... it's all preliminary since no moves can happen yet and Bogut supposedly has some interest from Houston and a couple other teams too.

Bogut wanting to go to a contender is a pretty easy guess, but he loves to yank people around so he may have dropped the Cavs name just to jerk people around.

Regardless, I don't know that the current version of Williams and Bogut are game changers for the Cavs. Probably the biggest difference they would make is that they might let the Cavs stars play fewer minutes and still get to the playoffs with a #1 seed.

This is pretty much it. Game changers vs. the Warriors? Probably not. But our stars are logging big minutes and relied upon HEAVILY (at least offensively) to get the job done. We've been battling injuries all year and our depth is sorely lacking at the point guard and center position. I mean, we technically don't have a center on the roster (TT and Frye are our only big men since Love is injured and their natural positions are PF), and Kyrie is the only point guard on the roster besides raw rookie Kay Felder.

It'll help big time if we pull in Deron Williams at least to try to keep our star players from being worn in the playoffs and finals if we make it.

ewing
02-24-2017, 11:37 AM
The league needs a hard a cap.

IKnowHoops
02-24-2017, 11:49 AM
The league needs a hard a cap.

Just sit back and enjoy great, competitive basketball.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 11:50 AM
The league needs a hard a cap.

remember that suggestion if your Knicks ever turn into contenders. Because you know they would happily live in luxury tax to supply a great team.

One of the most ironic things I have ever ready actually. New York fan asking for a hard cap, because a Cleveland team is spending.

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 12:13 PM
Stein, Woj, and some others ... it's all preliminary since no moves can happen yet and Bogut supposedly has some interest from Houston and a couple other teams too.

Bogut wanting to go to a contender is a pretty easy guess, but he loves to yank people around so he may have dropped the Cavs name just to jerk people around.

Regardless, I don't know that the current version of Williams and Bogut are game changers for the Cavs. Probably the biggest difference they would make is that they might let the Cavs stars play fewer minutes and still get to the playoffs with a #1 seed.

I've followed Stein and Woj like a hawk since yesterday morning, and I haven't seen a single Tweet or article suggesting the Cavs are "expected" to get Bogut. Can you provide a link to your information?

ewing
02-24-2017, 12:13 PM
remember that suggestion if your Knicks ever turn into contenders. Because you know they would happily live in luxury tax to supply a great team.

One of the most ironic things I have ever ready actually. New York fan asking for a hard cap, because a Cleveland team is spending.

Not b/c Clev is spending b/c the league has no parity. I don't care who the 2 teams are if there are only 2 teams that matter the league has a serious problem.

ewing
02-24-2017, 12:14 PM
Just sit back and enjoy great, competitive basketball.


You watching more college ball too?

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 12:14 PM
The league needs a hard a cap.

If they did, it would have to be much, much higher than the current soft cap. And they'd probably have to completely work the CBA. And it would require a long, tedious process that could lead to future lockouts.

So yeah, no, I'm good with the current system...

ewing
02-24-2017, 12:17 PM
If they did, it would have to be much, much higher than the current soft cap. And they'd probably have to completely work the CBA. And it would require a long, tedious process that could lead to future lockouts.

So yeah, no, I'm good with the current system...

how to you stop the trend towards nothing but super teams and tankers?

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 12:21 PM
Seriously, though, I think this post regarding Bogut's signing expectations is extremely premature. Literally the only source for this was a Cavs Nation "article" (If you want to call it that) that claims that "multiple reports" believe Bogut is going to Cleveland. But their only actual link was a Tweet from Jordan Schultz (a Huffington Post columnist who I've never heard of) from like 4 p.m. yesterday, which was hours before it was confirmed by other sources that Bogut could re-sign with Golden State.

Yeah, I'm not remotely buying this as a done deal. Williams? Yes. But until I see a legitimately reputable sports writer provide some information that indicates Bogut's likely destination, I'm taking this with a huge grain of salt.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 12:21 PM
Not b/c Clev is spending b/c the league has no parity. I don't care who the 2 teams are if there are only 2 teams that matter the league has a serious problem.

well, if you are good with a lockout for eternity while they figure it out, cool.

LA4life24/8
02-24-2017, 12:21 PM
Man, more scape goats for the king 😅😅😅. Nah but these would be good signings.

If he gets both of em i dont wanna hear one more ****in complaint from him about needing MORE help/ playmakers.

Stfu and play basketball and give us another god like finals performance lol

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 12:26 PM
how to you stop the trend towards nothing but super teams and tankers?

if a guy wants to go somewhere, he will. The only thing you can TRY and do is keep building in enticements to stay with the team that drafted you. At the end of the day, these guys make so much ****ing money, it doesn't matter what you do.

Besides, the league, whether you believe it or not, has always been very top heavy on true contenders. Seriously, look at the last 35 years. How many teams, in each given year, were actually contenders? The 80's Lakers rarely ran into a winning team until at least round 2 for example. I know your heart belongs to the early 90's basketball, but were the Pacers really a threat for example?

Vinylman
02-24-2017, 12:32 PM
The NBA is kind of turning into a joke. All these super teams and the Cavs get even stronger? Where's the intrigue? Does anyone REALLY believe anyone other than GS and Cleveland will be in the Finals for a third straight year, especially when teams don't mind cutting ring-chasing veterans?

Its been a joke for awhile... it is just more magnified now because there are less teams with any real chance at winning.

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 12:33 PM
how to you stop the trend towards nothing but super teams and tankers?
The NBA has done that in some regard with the most recent CBA, giving teams more tools to re-sign their players with larger contracts. But the NBA (like all professional sports) is cyclical. The Cavs and Warriors won't be at the top forever. In three years, we could have a totally new batch of teams fighting for the title.

But you act as if this hasn't always been a league where the title was ultimately narrowed down to 4-5 teams every year. That's pretty much always been the case, at least since the 80s. That's just kind of the nature of the sport and the league's postseason design. In a seven-game series, the great teams usually come out on top in this sport. And you don't see a lot of 1 and 2 seeds getting knocked off early.

ewing
02-24-2017, 12:33 PM
if a guy wants to go somewhere, he will. The only thing you can TRY and do is keep building in enticements to stay with the team that drafted you. At the end of the day, these guys make so much ****ing money, it doesn't matter what you do.

Besides, the league, whether you believe it or not, has always been very top heavy on true contenders. Seriously, look at the last 35 years. How many teams, in each given year, were actually contenders? The 80's Lakers rarely ran into a winning team until at least round 2 for example. I know your heart belongs to the early 90's basketball, but were the Pacers really a threat for example?


They did take the Bulls 7 in 98 in what i thought was a terribly officiated series.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 12:34 PM
Man, more scape goats for the king ������. Nah but these would be good signings.

If he gets both of em i dont wanna hear one more ****in complaint from him about needing MORE help/ playmakers.

Stfu and play basketball and give us another god like finals performance lol

contradicting....

Anyways, do we really think Cleveland has the talent of GS, with these signings? They will again go into the finals, if both teams are relatively healthy, as most likely a nice underdog with 4 games on the road.

ewing
02-24-2017, 12:34 PM
The NBA has done that in some regard with the most recent CBA, giving teams more tools to re-sign their players with larger contracts. But the NBA (like all professional sports) is cyclical. The Cavs and Warriors won't be at the top forever. In three years, we could have a totally new batch of teams fighting for the title.

But you act as if this hasn't always been a league where the title was ultimately narrowed down to 4-5 teams every year. That's pretty much always been the case, at least since the 80s. That's just kind of the nature of the sport and the league's postseason design. In a seven-game series, the great teams usually come out on top in this sport. And you don't see a lot of 1 and 2 seeds getting knocked off early.

Its a 2 team league with teams more often selling off to miss the playoffs then fighting to get in it.

Vee-Rex
02-24-2017, 12:37 PM
Not b/c Clev is spending b/c the league has no parity. I don't care who the 2 teams are if there are only 2 teams that matter the league has a serious problem.

I think you're overthinking it.

In the last 3 years there were different champions. In the last 5 years there were 4 different champions. In the last 9 years there were 6 different champions.

It was worst in the late 90's and early 2000's when only the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers were champions.

And if you're upset about Cleveland/Golden State only mattering then IMO you should be more upset about the Durant signing since that simultaneously catapulted the Warriors into their own tier while eliminating the Thunder as a contender. If Durant doesn't sign with GS and stays with the Thunder, the West has a 3, 4, maybe 5-headed behemoth in GS, OKC, SAS, LAC, HOU.

It's not the league's fault that GMs like Ainge are afraid to cash in on assets and challenge LeBron in the East, even when we are down 2 starters in JR and Love. I'd bet he could've had Butler and/or Cousins if he really wanted to.

If you look at the Cavs, we've got like 1 first-rounder through 2021. Our assets are GONE. But if you look at Toronto, Washington, Boston, etc... they're loaded on assets compared to us. But they're simply hesitant on trading away multiple future 1sts because they don't think it'll be enough to beat LeBron. If LeBron vanished from existence before the deadline Ainge would've pulled 10 triggers on that Butler trade, no doubt.

My point is - you're blaming the league more than front offices and player decisions/impact.

ewing
02-24-2017, 12:38 PM
well, if you are good with a lockout for eternity while they figure it out, cool.

Works for me. Delonte can get LBJ a job at home depot

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 12:39 PM
Works for me. Delonte can get LBJ a job at home depot

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=pineapple+express+herpes&view=detail&mid=B7A428A6B7327C81AAF2B7A428A6B7327C81AAF2&FORM=VIRE

ewing
02-24-2017, 12:43 PM
I think you're overthinking it.

In the last 3 years there were different champions. In the last 5 years there were 4 different champions. In the last 9 years there were 6 different champions.

It was worst in the late 90's and early 2000's when only the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers were champions.

And if you're upset about Cleveland/Golden State only mattering then IMO you should be more upset about the Durant signing since that simultaneously catapulted the Warriors into their own tier while eliminating the Thunder as a contender. If Durant doesn't sign with GS and stays with the Thunder, the West has a 3, 4, maybe 5-headed behemoth in GS, OKC, SAS, LAC, HOU.

It's not the league's fault that GMs like Ainge are afraid to cash in on assets and challenge LeBron in the East, even when we are down 2 starters in JR and Love. I'd bet he could've had Butler and/or Cousins if he really wanted to.

If you look at the Cavs, we've got like 1 first-rounder through 2021. Our assets are GONE. But if you look at Toronto, Washington, Boston, etc... they're loaded on assets compared to us. But they're simply hesitant on trading away multiple future 1sts because they don't think it'll be enough to beat LeBron. If LeBron vanished from existence before the deadline Ainge would've pulled 10 triggers on that Butler trade, no doubt.

My point is - you're blaming the league more than front offices and player decisions/impact.

Yeah KD is a totally *****. you can't deny that there is a trend towards super teams and tankers. What % of the league is trying to win basketball games right now. I think 70 wins is going to become a norm at the top of the league.

Vinylman
02-24-2017, 12:45 PM
People who don't see the competitive situation in the NBA getting worse are either homers or ignorant ****s.

If you don't think that Cuban and Gilbert aren't conspiring with the release/buyout of Williams you are delusional.

The multitude of exceptions to sign players make the league a joke...

there is zero need for exceptions other than to manufacture super rosters

You know your product is **** when the peak of interest in your league is

1. Draft/FA period
2. Finals
3. The Trade deadline

No one is going to watch the NBA for the next month... the games are meaningless

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 12:47 PM
People who don't see the competitive situation in the NBA getting worse are either homers or ignorant ****s.

If you don't think that Cuban and Gilbert aren't conspiring with the release/buyout of Williams you are delusional.

The multitude of exceptions to sign players make the league a joke...

there is zero need for exceptions other than to manufacture super rosters

You know your product is **** when the peak of interest in your league is

1. Draft/FA period
2. Finals
3. The Trade deadline

No one is going to watch the NBA for the next month... the games are meaningless

it's always been top heavy. Has the current level of competitive teams dropped? Probably. But that is also because of a change in approach. If you aren't competing for a ring, you are better off sucking a huge dick. It wasn't viewed that way by all teams years ago, so mediocracy was acceptable.

Vinylman
02-24-2017, 12:49 PM
I think you're overthinking it.

In the last 3 years there were different champions. In the last 5 years there were 4 different champions. In the last 9 years there were 6 different champions.

It was worst in the late 90's and early 2000's when only the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers were champions.

And if you're upset about Cleveland/Golden State only mattering then IMO you should be more upset about the Durant signing since that simultaneously catapulted the Warriors into their own tier while eliminating the Thunder as a contender. If Durant doesn't sign with GS and stays with the Thunder, the West has a 3, 4, maybe 5-headed behemoth in GS, OKC, SAS, LAC, HOU.

It's not the league's fault that GMs like Ainge are afraid to cash in on assets and challenge LeBron in the East, even when we are down 2 starters in JR and Love. I'd bet he could've had Butler and/or Cousins if he really wanted to.

If you look at the Cavs, we've got like 1 first-rounder through 2021. Our assets are GONE. But if you look at Toronto, Washington, Boston, etc... they're loaded on assets compared to us. But they're simply hesitant on trading away multiple future 1sts because they don't think it'll be enough to beat LeBron. If LeBron vanished from existence before the deadline Ainge would've pulled 10 triggers on that Butler trade, no doubt.

My point is - you're blaming the league more than front offices and player decisions/impact.

terrible analysis

Its the following

EAST - Lebron Superteam (doesn't matter what ****ing jersey they wear)

WEST - GS/SA and one offs with OKC and Dallas

Again, people who don't see a wider gap in the haves vs have nots are either homers or ignorant ****s.

Scoots
02-24-2017, 12:49 PM
Its a 2 team league with teams more often selling off to miss the playoffs then fighting to get in it.

But that's not a result of the current rules. The Warriors drafted extremely well over a few years then got stupidly lucky with a cap rise. The Cavs tanked to add talent, traded potential to add other talent, and had the best player of the last 20 years decide to come back home. You shouldn't blame the rules for flukes.

Rules to add parity? Allow owners of teams who win fewer than 41 games to attend only half as many games as the team wins the previous year. Win 40 games and the owners box and seats must be empty for 21 home games. Win 14 games and they are empty for 34 games. The best owners make the best teams who make the best decisions and hire the best people to build the team and the players and win the most games. It's true in every sport, but in basketball where around 70% of the 240 minutes available are taken by a good team's starters a few players make a HUGE difference in results.

Setting a maximum number of minutes any player can play per game would add some parity. Set it to 20 minutes per game (240 minutes divided by 13 active players and round up) and the Celtics would probably be favored to win the title this year.

Vinylman
02-24-2017, 12:52 PM
it's always been top heavy. Has the current level of competitive teams dropped? Probably. But that is also because of a change in approach. If you aren't competing for a ring, you are better off sucking a huge dick. It wasn't viewed that way by all teams years ago, so mediocracy was acceptable.

The reason that it is acceptable now has to do with one thing and one thing only

REVENUE ****ING SHARING

It doesn't matter if your product is ****... you still make money

In fact, the losing teams actually make as much or more than the top teams because they aren't paying LT.

The NBA is becoming the equivalent of kids sports where we don't keep the score...

participate and you can make money... doesn't matter if the product you churn out is ****

YAALREADYKNO
02-24-2017, 12:57 PM
Lebron got the help he wanted lol

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 12:57 PM
The PSD NBA forum: Where 90 percent of threads devolve into Lebron hate or complaints about how uncompetitive the NBA is. Gotta love it!

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 12:59 PM
The reason that it is acceptable now has to do with one thing and one thing only

REVENUE ****ING SHARING

It doesn't matter if your product is ****... you still make money

In fact, the losing teams actually make as much or more than the top teams because they aren't paying LT.

The NBA is becoming the equivalent of kids sports where we don't keep the score...

participate and you can make money... doesn't matter if the product you churn out is ****

well yeah, that is all correct. It's why tanking is fine, who cares if you don't fill 10,000 seats a game, you are good. Which is funny, because the champs lost a ton of money.

Like any business with a pool of 30 owners, the results should be expected. The voting will reflect that people are happier making sure they make money regardless, instead of having to perform to make it..

LA4life24/8
02-24-2017, 01:00 PM
contradicting....

Anyways, do we really think Cleveland has the talent of GS, with these signings? They will again go into the finals, if both teams are relatively healthy, as most likely a nice underdog with 4 games on the road.

Yeaaah i know lol. I suck. I just hate to hear him complaining all the time when hes a top 10 ( top 3 when its all said and done im sure) all time player. Its annoying. The dude picks all his guys for the most part.

But as for your question, no of course not. But i dont think the cavs are as far behind gs as everyone else does... 3 all stars vs 4 in the starting line up after that each team falls off but one could argue that with bogut and deron the cavs bench is every bit as strong as warriors.

The cavs wont have the same cohesiveness as the dubs but it didn't matter last year and idk if it will this year either.

Vinylman
02-24-2017, 01:04 PM
well yeah, that is all correct. It's why tanking is fine, who cares if you don't fill 10,000 seats a game, you are good. Which is funny, because the champs lost a ton of money.

Like any business with a pool of 30 owners, the results should be expected. The voting will reflect that people are happier making sure they make money regardless, instead of having to perform to make it..

and the reason this is a problem is because we are in the "early" stages of the competitiveness decline... give it about 2-3 more years and you will see how it effects peoples willingness to continue to shell out for season tickets, etc...

It is obvious the league wants super teams or they would just modify a few basic rules which even the players would find great.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 01:11 PM
Yeaaah i know lol. I suck. I just hate to hear him complaining all the time when hes a top 10 ( top 3 when its all said and done im sure) all time player. Its annoying. The dude picks all his guys for the most part.
But as for your question, no of course not. But i dont think the cavs are as far behind gs as everyone else does... 3 all stars vs 4 in the starting line up after that each team falls off but one could argue that with bogut and deron the cavs bench is every bit as strong as warriors.

The cavs wont have the same cohesiveness as the dubs but it didn't matter last year and idk if it will this year either.

do you remember the things Jordan said about his FO? Kobe?

They can't all be Duncan haha. Where they are given chip help every year, through intelligent drafting, FA signings, discounts with the stars, and the GOAT coach.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 01:12 PM
and the reason this is a problem is because we are in the "early" stages of the competitiveness decline... give it about 2-3 more years and you will see how it effects peoples willingness to continue to shell out for season tickets, etc...

It is obvious the league wants super teams or they would just modify a few basic rules which even the players would find great.

everything is reactive though. The NBA may very well see profits jet down due to attendance, and they will adjust accordingly. However, yes, it will be an annoying 5 year period while we the fans deal with this superteam to the max scenario, and down the line, it will be adjusted to provide more competitiveness.

Vee-Rex
02-24-2017, 01:15 PM
terrible analysis

Its the following

EAST - Lebron Superteam (doesn't matter what ****ing jersey they wear)

WEST - GS/SA and one offs with OKC and Dallas

Again, people who don't see a wider gap in the haves vs have nots are either homers or ignorant ****s.

You listed how it is right now, but not WHY.

GS built through the draft and were extremely fortunate to be able to sign the one major free agent in KD... how can you fault them or the league?

Cleveland made sacrifices that other GMs are unwilling to make.

I'm going to continue to use Ainge as an example. Ainge could've had Butler + Cousins, or George + Cousins, or Butler + Millsap, or whatever combination. But he would've had to gut the depth of his team to build the structure of a super team. He was unwilling because he didn't want to have to stare LeBron down in the face. But you gotta give up pieces to build that powerful structure.

The ONLY pieces the original 2014-15 Cavs roster had that are still a part of the team are:

LeBron
Kyrie
Love
TT
James Jones

That's it. James Jones is not a part of our rotation and TT was viewed nowhere near how he is viewed now. He's benefiting from the stars around him. The rest (Varejao, Dellavedova, Marion, Waiters, Miller, Harris, Haywood, Kirk, Amundson, Price) are gone. Except for MAYBE Delly, the rest were trash. But the Cavs mortgaged their entire future, all their picks, 1st rounder in Wiggins for Love, trading 2 first rounders for Mozgov, acquiring JR and Smith, 1st rounder for Channing Frye, 1st rounder for Korver, and going far over the luxury tax on huge contracts (Love/TT/JR/Shumpert), to build the "ZOMG OVERPOWERED" superteam that you see today.

Yet, all of that sacrifice/mortgaging of our future to only be extremely fortunate to win the one championship we did, and possibly not another one with the way GS looks. And you wanna cry foul and blame the league because of one team shoving all-in while others are too afraid?

Yeah, whatever dude.

LA4life24/8
02-24-2017, 01:17 PM
do you remember the things Jordan said about his FO? Kobe?

They can't all be Duncan haha. Where they are given chip help every year, through intelligent drafting, FA signings, discounts with the stars, and the GOAT coach.

True, you got me. Lol.

Something has just always rubbed me the wrong way about bron, i cant exactly put my finger on it but oh well, maybe im just hatin greatness lol.

PayDaPiper
02-24-2017, 01:18 PM
How can they sign players when they are already so far over the salary cap?

Even for the vet minimum don't you have to have cap room to sign a player?

LA4life24/8
02-24-2017, 01:20 PM
How can they sign players when they are already so far over the salary cap?

Even for the vet minimum don't you have to have cap room to sign a player?

I think you can always sign vets min players... could be wrong though. At least as long as you have roster space of course.

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 01:21 PM
How can they sign players when they are already so far over the salary cap?

Even for the vet minimum don't you have to have cap room to sign a player?

No. If you're over the cap, you can sign players at the veteran minimum. There's also certain exceptions teams can use, but I don't know if Cleveland has any at its disposal.

Vee-Rex
02-24-2017, 01:31 PM
How can they sign players when they are already so far over the salary cap?

Even for the vet minimum don't you have to have cap room to sign a player?

Nope.

Teams have been doing this for many years. Your very own David West and Javale McGee signed for vet minimums. West has been ringchasing for a couple years now but Javale wasn't really wanted by anyone - can't fault GS or the league for those signings.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 01:52 PM
True, you got me. Lol.

Something has just always rubbed me the wrong way about bron, i cant exactly put my finger on it but oh well, maybe im just hatin greatness lol.

one thing I have noticed about LeBron, is no matter what he says, whether it's true or not, he just always, and I mean ALWAYS, comes off as portraying himself as the victim. He is just not a very good public speaker when it comes to talking about himself.

Heediot
02-24-2017, 01:52 PM
This should end all of the whining from Lebron. The Cavs have added a backup play-maker, an energy guy in Derrick Williams, and a solid big man.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 01:56 PM
This should end all of the whining from Lebron. The Cavs have added a backup play-maker, an energy guy in Derrick Williams, and a solid big man.

Derrick Williams should never be used as ammo in a conversation. Just saying

mightybosstone
02-24-2017, 01:59 PM
Again, I cannot stress this enough... But the Bogut information is EXTREMELY premature at this point!!! No reputable source has said that Bogut is likely to sign with the Cavaliers. Williams is a lock based on everything I've seen, but we literally have no clue at this point what Bogut is thinking. Literally the only sources to suggest Bogut has chosen Cleveland is a Tweet from a Huffington Post columnist from yesterday afternoon, a freaking Cavs nation article that merely referred to that Tweet and the stupid PSD article that cited the Cavs Nation article.

Until Woj or somebody respectable backs this up, let's pump the breaks on this a bit...

Vee-Rex
02-24-2017, 02:00 PM
True, you got me. Lol.

Something has just always rubbed me the wrong way about bron, i cant exactly put my finger on it but oh well, maybe im just hatin greatness lol.

He's a douche for sure, so disliking him isn't hating greatness at all.

It becomes hating greatness when you use every fiber of your being to criticize him even when it isn't deserved. I criticize him a lot, but sometimes I see situations where he's getting shredded for stuff that is just ridiculous. :)

Heediot
02-24-2017, 02:03 PM
Again, I cannot stress this enough... But the Bogut information is EXTREMELY premature at this point!!! No reputable source has said that Bogut is likely to sign with the Cavaliers. Williams is a lock based on everything I've seen, but we literally have no clue at this point what Bogut is thinking. Literally the only sources to suggest Bogut has chosen Cleveland is a Tweet from a Huffington Post columnist from yesterday afternoon, a freaking Cavs nation article that merely referred to that Tweet and the stupid PSD article that cited the Cavs Nation article.

Until Woj or somebody respectable backs this up, let's pump the breaks on this a bit...

True.

I was thinking Spurs myself even though they have a nice big man rotation already.

Scoots
02-24-2017, 02:07 PM
True, you got me. Lol.

Something has just always rubbed me the wrong way about bron, i cant exactly put my finger on it but oh well, maybe im just hatin greatness lol.

I think fundamentally some people are put off by LeBron's polish with the press making him seem artificial. It's amazing to me that someone who has been on TV more than any player (maybe in any sport ever) could still largely be an unknown in today's techno-age.

As a player there is VERY little to fault him for.

LA4life24/8
02-24-2017, 02:31 PM
Haha well thanks guys, makes me feel less guilty about disliking the guy, i mean honestly even if he was on my team i still feel like id dislike him, i mean i respect his game and id be pumped if he was taking my team to the finals or winning rings but id still have a somewhat negative opinion of him

WITZ
02-24-2017, 03:09 PM
Big for Cavs their 2 biggest needs are backup Pg & C. And they get both without having to give up any assets if they even still have any lol. Now Bogut can set those Illegal Moving screens for them :laugh2:

IKnowHoops
02-24-2017, 04:06 PM
how to you stop the trend towards nothing but super teams and tankers?

EASY!!!

Go back to how it used to be.

Don't put a cap on contract length.

Let teams sign guys to 10 year contracts again.

Super teams over.

LOb0
02-24-2017, 04:12 PM
Bogut actually can resign with GS since they weren't the last ones to trade/waive him.

Wade n Fade
02-24-2017, 07:07 PM
I hope some team claims Deron Williams and Bogut. Bogut could help some squad with the salary floor. Deron Williams is a decent piece for a team looking to make the playoffs while having some cap space. Some teams might even offer more $, so until Williams and Bogut sign with Cleveland or Golden State, anything can happen. I remember some people thought Joe Johnson would go to Cleveland to ring chase. Instead, he chose Miami for minutes and to play with D-Wade.

Ty Fast
02-25-2017, 12:42 PM
I could see Bogut going to the Spurs

prodigy
02-25-2017, 01:38 PM
I hope some team claims Deron Williams and Bogut. Bogut could help some squad with the salary floor. Deron Williams is a decent piece for a team looking to make the playoffs while having some cap space. Some teams might even offer more $, so until Williams and Bogut sign with Cleveland or Golden State, anything can happen. I remember some people thought Joe Johnson would go to Cleveland to ring chase. Instead, he chose Miami for minutes and to play with D-Wade.

Don't think any team would to be honest. don't they gotta take over their contract and plus pay a million to the league?

I'm not sure how much of Joe Johnson's decision was based off playing with Wade lol. I know he wanted to start and or get decent minutes. also wanted more money.

prodigy
02-25-2017, 01:41 PM
Daron Williams best place is Cleveland. He's getting older, been injured a lot throughout his career. So taking a backup role on a good team is beyond ideal. plus he fits cavs system perfect.

As a cavs fan I would rather have Larry Sanders then Bogut. Boguts banged up and you cant really play him vs teams like GS.

nycericanguy
02-25-2017, 01:45 PM
This is another issue being created by super teams that gets over looked.

Super teams is causing more and more teams to tank, which means they release really good veterans, who end up going to the super teams, which only worsens the problem.

The championship or bust mentality has gone a bit overboard now where just being "good" is almost looked at more negatively than being really bad. It's either be a super team or tank it seems.

Vee-Rex
02-25-2017, 02:38 PM
This is another issue being created by super teams that gets over looked.

Super teams is causing more and more teams to tank, which means they release really good veterans, who end up going to the super teams, which only worsens the problem.

The championship or bust mentality has gone a bit overboard now where just being "good" is almost looked at more negatively than being really bad. It's either be a super team or tank it seems.

I think if Durant stays with OKC, you have six teams (SAS/OKC/GSW/LAC/HOU/CLE) that are probably contenders, and maybe the Raptors if they can pull it together with their new additions.

That move was pretty devastating because it put GS in their own tier and eliminated OKC, LAC, and HOU as contenders. It literally eliminated 3 contenders and made it much harder for teams like SAS and CLE to beat them.

Other than that, the league was fine. It's on teams like BOS/TOR to improve and get closer to Cleveland's level. They've certainly had opportunities.

Vee-Rex
02-25-2017, 06:20 PM
Per Woj,

Deron Williams will sign with the Cavs on Monday.

WOOT

One down, one more to go! And if we whiff on Bogut we'll probably get Larry Sanders.

FlashBolt
02-25-2017, 09:50 PM
1) Deron is a significant upgrade over Felder.. Felder has been terrible. I thought his athleticism would at least allow him to provide some energy but dude is just a terrible decision maker. I like Liggins purely for defense but he's incapable of being an offensive boost for the team when LeBron/Kyrie are sitting.

2) I doubt Bogut signs with the Warriors. sounded like he was upset with that franchise in regards to them being "fake." he never put a name out but heavily implied it in some degree.

Man, Bogut's "illegal" screens will piss you guys off if you aren't a cavs fan.. dude is so good at it. Cavs need that tough and dirty player too.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-25-2017, 10:28 PM
Good pieces to sign but I generally feel these midseason buyout signings don't end up producing what the team needs them to once the new team signs them. Could be wrongabout prior year guys but just always had that feeling.

ewing
02-25-2017, 10:32 PM
Good pieces to sign but I generally feel these midseason buyout signings don't end up producing what the team needs them to once the new team signs them. Could be wrongabout prior year guys but just always had that feeling.

If Williams is healthy. He is the best backup PG in the NBA. Pretty sure it makes the Cavs better


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Scoots
02-25-2017, 11:20 PM
1) Deron is a significant upgrade over Felder.. Felder has been terrible. I thought his athleticism would at least allow him to provide some energy but dude is just a terrible decision maker. I like Liggins purely for defense but he's incapable of being an offensive boost for the team when LeBron/Kyrie are sitting.

2) I doubt Bogut signs with the Warriors. sounded like he was upset with that franchise in regards to them being "fake." he never put a name out but heavily implied it in some degree.

Man, Bogut's "illegal" screens will piss you guys off if you aren't a cavs fan.. dude is so good at it. Cavs need that tough and dirty player too.

The Cavs don't run the screen game anywhere NEAR as often as the Warriors do so people probably won't complain anyhow.

mike_noodles
02-25-2017, 11:22 PM
It sucks that this happens. They need to change the waiver rules for this type of thing. Something like the current waiver rule, but allowing teams first refusal from worst to first based on some combination of cap space and vet minimum. Player doesn't like the team that picks him up, he sits out the season and becomes a UFA in the summer. Every year this **** happens, it's one of the worst parts of the NBA for me.

FlashBolt
02-25-2017, 11:22 PM
The Cavs don't run the screen game anywhere NEAR as often as the Warriors do so people probably won't complain anyhow.

they don't have the personnel. Frye hates doing it and Tristan is the only other guy who does it effectively. Love does not have the physique to set screens the way Bogut can. Mosgov was good at it as well.

ewing
02-25-2017, 11:38 PM
Who else is pretty sure that LeBron's crying about his lack of a back PG lead to some back room dealings that lead to a player of Deron's caliber being brought out and winding up in Clevland?

Vee-Rex
02-26-2017, 12:20 AM
Who else is pretty sure that LeBron's crying about his lack of a back PG lead to some back room dealings that lead to a player of Deron's caliber being brought out and winding up in Clevland?

Cuban and Gilbert are pals. What they do behind closed doors is none of your business. :D

Scoots
02-26-2017, 12:37 AM
they don't have the personnel. Frye hates doing it and Tristan is the only other guy who does it effectively. Love does not have the physique to set screens the way Bogut can. Mosgov was good at it as well.

But they don't have the personnel partly because they don't play the game that way so they got players who don't set them or use them well (except Korver and possibly Bogut).

Scoots
02-26-2017, 12:38 AM
Who else is pretty sure that LeBron's crying about his lack of a back PG lead to some back room dealings that lead to a player of Deron's caliber being brought out and winding up in Clevland?

Based on all the people fairly certain of Williams destination even before the Cavs could talk to Williams within the rules ... certainly something was happening.

eDush
02-26-2017, 12:44 AM
Who do the Cavs cut? Do they make the Cavs the clear favorite?

Cut McCrae?

I'd say Bogut and Williams COULD make a key difference, but if Bogut can't stay on the floor against the Warriors and Williams doesn't play D any better than he has been then they make very little difference in the playoffs.The Cavs would want the Warriors to resign Bogut and hope they use him against the Cavs so they could insure of winning the games. The guys clueless when it comes to stopping the Cavs :facepalm:

Raps18-19 Champ
02-26-2017, 01:02 AM
Based on all the people fairly certain of Williams destination even before the Cavs could talk to Williams within the rules ... certainly something was happening.

I mean was there really any other choice he could've gone too? If I was a decent PG getting cut, I'm running straight to the Cavs when their best player is desperate for a ****ing playmaker.

mike_noodles
02-26-2017, 07:49 AM
Who else is pretty sure that LeBron's crying about his lack of a back PG lead to some back room dealings that lead to a player of Deron's caliber being brought out and winding up in Clevland?

Doubt it. This happens all the time.

ewing
02-26-2017, 08:51 AM
Based on all the people fairly certain of Williams destination even before the Cavs could talk to Williams within the rules ... certainly something was happening.

King of collusion


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eDush
02-26-2017, 08:56 AM
Based on all the people fairly certain of Williams destination even before the Cavs could talk to Williams within the rules ... certainly something was happening.

I mean was there really any other choice he could've gone too? If I was a decent PG getting cut, I'm running straight to the Cavs when their best player is desperate for a ****ing playmaker.With the recent two pickups, the Raps are the the best team now to prevent the Cavs from reaching the Finals and a decent chance to represent the East this season after seeing how the Cavs got destroyed by the Bulls yesterday.

I don't want to face the Raptors:no:

BKLYNpigeon
02-26-2017, 09:18 AM
Rockets are 3 mil under the cap. they have first dibs on the waiver market.

I think they're picking up Bogut.

eDush
02-26-2017, 09:37 AM
Rockets are 3 mil under the cap. they have first dibs on the waiver market.

I think they're picking up Bogut.The Cavs hope so too and use him against them for obvious reasons :nod:.

mightybosstone
02-26-2017, 09:43 AM
Rockets are 3 mil under the cap. they have first dibs on the waiver market.

I think they're picking up Bogut.

I read yesterday that the Rockets can offer Bogut 9 times what Cleveland and San Antonio could offer him. Why wouldn't Bogut take that?

ewing
02-26-2017, 09:52 AM
I read yesterday that the Rockets can offer Bogut 9 times what Cleveland and San Antonio could offer him. Why wouldn't Bogut take that?


IDK, but i am sure LeBron's team is trying to cook up some illegal backdoor ****.

eDush
02-26-2017, 10:08 AM
Rockets are 3 mil under the cap. they have first dibs on the waiver market.

I think they're picking up Bogut.

I read yesterday that the Rockets can offer Bogut 9 times what Cleveland and San Antonio could offer him. Why wouldn't Bogut take that?
Well they never offered 9 times more wisely :nod:

nycericanguy
02-26-2017, 10:52 AM
I read yesterday that the Rockets can offer Bogut 9 times what Cleveland and San Antonio could offer him. Why wouldn't Bogut take that?

Rockets can't claim him because you need to be $11m under the cap to take on Boguts salary.

With the season almost being over, and salaries being prorated, you're probably talking about HOU being able to offer 900k vs CLE 100k or something. So it's not a huge deal, especially for a guy that already made $11m+ this year.

Vee-Rex
02-26-2017, 11:44 AM
I read yesterday that the Rockets can offer Bogut 9 times what Cleveland and San Antonio could offer him. Why wouldn't Bogut take that?

Gilbert is a mobster that will feed him something under the table, I'm sure.

ewing
02-26-2017, 08:38 PM
Can someone explain to me why the Mavs would cut Williams lose?


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tp13baby
02-26-2017, 09:01 PM
Cleveland fans told me Kay Felder was the answer though? What's wrong with him?

WITZ
02-26-2017, 09:14 PM
Cleveland fans told me Kay Felder was the answer though? What's wrong with him?

:laugh2: Whats wrong with him ... hes like 5'6 , a rookie, not a playmaker

brandt
02-27-2017, 12:12 AM
Rockets can't claim him because you need to be $11m under the cap to take on Boguts salary.

With the season almost being over, and salaries being prorated, you're probably talking about HOU being able to offer 900k vs CLE 100k or something. So it's not a huge deal, especially for a guy that already made $11m+ this year.
You obviously haven't been paying attention because the Rockets traded two of there guys at the end of the trade deadline for cash, which put them over 3 million to be able to spend on signing someone.

Scoots
02-27-2017, 10:28 AM
Can someone explain to me why the Mavs would cut Williams lose?


Collusion.

Vee-Rex
02-27-2017, 12:39 PM
Can someone explain to me why the Mavs would cut Williams lose?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

9 Million off their books, and they want to hand the reins over to Yogi Ferrell (who has been playing good) and Seth Curry.

Vee-Rex
02-27-2017, 12:41 PM
Cleveland fans told me Kay Felder was the answer though? What's wrong with him?

Too raw. He has potential but the Cavs are trying to win a championship right now and Felder needs a bunch of time to develop.

Scoots
02-27-2017, 02:25 PM
9 Million off their books, and they want to hand the reins over to Yogi Ferrell (who has been playing good) and Seth Curry.

I don't think it saves them any money does it?

LOb0
02-27-2017, 02:28 PM
Can someone explain to me why the Mavs would cut Williams lose?


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Other than they want to play the young guys and they don't want to disrespect Dwill with limited playing time and playing on a bum team. Not really. It saves them no money.

FlashBolt
02-27-2017, 02:39 PM
But they don't have the personnel partly because they don't play the game that way so they got players who don't set them or use them well (except Korver and possibly Bogut).

but they do play that way. Frye, Korver, Irving. All need screeners. Frye hates screening because he says it's difficult on his body. Korver doesn't even have a screener unless it's thompson. He just runs and plays great off-ball. Irving just pulls up and he's great at it but really, the cavs don't have any tough screeners. They haven't played that way because Love just stays at the three point line and their other big guy is Frye/Thompson -- only thompson is capable of good screenings.

Pfeifer
02-27-2017, 02:40 PM
With the recent two pickups, the Raps are the the best team now to prevent the Cavs from reaching the Finals and a decent chance to represent the East this season after seeing how the Cavs got destroyed by the Bulls yesterday.

I don't want to face the Raptors:no:

They usually find a way to keep it ckose with GSW. Lol

Vinylman
02-27-2017, 02:42 PM
I don't think it saves them any money does it?

nope... not unless they are bought out

IKnowHoops
02-27-2017, 03:14 PM
The more and more I think about it, getting Williams can really be a game changer. He is the first TRUE starting level PG that Bron will have ever played with. And Bron can truly just be an offensive weapon instead of always having to be a playmaker. Playing with Deron should raise his offensive efficiency and definitely raise the energy he can give to scoring.

I love a lineup of

Deron
Kyrie
Shumpert
Lebron
Love

Could be extremely devastating offensively...among many other lineups. I just think its a big deal because he's basically playing with the first guy who he can trust to run the offense and will find him EVERY TIME. Ive always wanted to unleash Lebron from a scoring standpoint. He has been the Point forward his whole career. Would love to see him play with more of a scorer's mentality.

Really love this pickup, it has given me hope that Cleveland will be able to pull off the impossible again.

ewing
02-27-2017, 03:19 PM
9 Million off their books, and they want to hand the reins over to Yogi Ferrell (who has been playing good) and Seth Curry.

they didn't pay him the reminder of his contract? If so they did they didn't take anything off there books. they released a superior player for no reason other then to tank or because and under the table agreement was reached.

Vinylman
02-27-2017, 03:20 PM
they didn't pay him the reminder of his contract? If so they did they didn't take anything off there books. they released a superior player for no reason other then to tank or because and under the table agreement was reached.

duh

LOb0
02-27-2017, 03:27 PM
duh

Miami has done so many of these under the table deals and the league never did ****. Haslem, Wade, Mike Miller. Goes on and on. Wade opted out to take LESS money.

FlashBolt
02-27-2017, 05:07 PM
The more and more I think about it, getting Williams can really be a game changer. He is the first TRUE starting level PG that Bron will have ever played with. And Bron can truly just be an offensive weapon instead of always having to be a playmaker. Playing with Deron should raise his offensive efficiency and definitely raise the energy he can give to scoring.

I love a lineup of

Deron
Kyrie
Shumpert
Lebron
Love

Could be extremely devastating offensively...among many other lineups. I just think its a big deal because he's basically playing with the first guy who he can trust to run the offense and will find him EVERY TIME. Ive always wanted to unleash Lebron from a scoring standpoint. He has been the Point forward his whole career. Would love to see him play with more of a scorer's mentality.

Really love this pickup, it has given me hope that Cleveland will be able to pull off the impossible again.

I disagree. I thought Chalmers was very good for the Heat. He was efficient and effective. Did his job very well and never let the spotlight get to him. Chalmers could start on my team any day (during his Miami days). I like Deron a lot in this role. They made a mistake thinking he would ever be the same Deron but man, he has got to be the best PG coming out the bench. Here's to him actually caring about it, though. Dude has been losing for nearly a decade so it will be interesting to see how he adjusts his attitude.

Chronz
02-27-2017, 05:13 PM
Yeah I think Deron will be of most value to LeBron in the amount of time on the bench he can afford him. His damage will come with Bron resting, at least for the regular season. They gotta get his minutes down for the final stretch of the year. But I do know the Cavs love having a 2nd unit+Bron for big stretches, so it will be interesting to see how they all mesh together, we will see it in spurts for sure during this final stretch.

tredigs
02-27-2017, 06:24 PM
The more and more I think about it, getting Williams can really be a game changer. He is the first TRUE starting level PG that Bron will have ever played with. And Bron can truly just be an offensive weapon instead of always having to be a playmaker. Playing with Deron should raise his offensive efficiency and definitely raise the energy he can give to scoring.

I love a lineup of

Deron
Kyrie
Shumpert
Lebron
Love

Could be extremely devastating offensively...among many other lineups. I just think its a big deal because he's basically playing with the first guy who he can trust to run the offense and will find him EVERY TIME. Ive always wanted to unleash Lebron from a scoring standpoint. He has been the Point forward his whole career. Would love to see him play with more of a scorer's mentality.

Really love this pickup, it has given me hope that Cleveland will be able to pull off the impossible again.
All together, you think? I feel like that against the best teams that lineup just can't keep up in a scoring race. Like I'd take the updated Raptors against that lineup. They'd just go ballistic offensively.