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View Full Version : Might this be the Beginning of the End of Small Ball?



5ass
02-20-2017, 10:41 PM
AD and Cousins are each averaging 28 PPG. These are two very talented and versatile big men teaming up. There aren't many front courts in the NBA that can stop both at the same time. Besides them though there's just a lot of talented young big men that can spread the floor and play inside. Embiid, Porzingis, Turner, ect.

What do you think?

mrblisterdundee
02-20-2017, 10:44 PM
Pace-and-space will remain alive and well, but there will be a premium on tall guys who can do it all.

COOLbeans
02-20-2017, 10:46 PM
In order for the league to get better the NBA needs to adopt some of its old rules back. All of the soft zone teams are playing and the rules being in favor of the 3 ball and higher scores is actively ruining the game. This would allow the truly talented guys to shine more and the games will be more competitive rather than it being a shoot out every game or a blowout. The all star game is indicative of how the current game is being played.

koreancabbage
02-20-2017, 10:46 PM
if they make the playoffs. sure. Right now, NOP looking in from the outside.

these are a new breed of bigs in the NBA. they handle the ball like a guard and can shoot from long range.

it would definitely force 1 more lesser talented player in the front court to be on the court instead of 3-4 guards and 1 big.

ewing
02-20-2017, 10:59 PM
It's over whatever the favor of the month is that the only way you can when in this league


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5ass
02-20-2017, 11:03 PM
Will we see a Cousins-AD pick n roll?

ewing
02-20-2017, 11:19 PM
Will we see a Cousins-AD pick n roll?

It's going to be sophisticated


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Giannis94
02-20-2017, 11:45 PM
bucks also have a tall ball approach going with Maker, Giannis and Middleton. GSW watch out

cmellofan15
02-21-2017, 12:05 AM
Yeah, none of the players mentioned, or their respective teams, pose any threat to Golden State.

call it the small ball epidemic if you want, I just see it as GSW making the most of their talent and other teams trying to mimic it.

More-Than-Most
02-21-2017, 12:50 AM
The small ball isnt the reason for not posing any threat... When You have Kd/Curry/Klay/Green/Iggy etc nobody is a threat... Its a shame really but think of how insane these playoffs would be if Durant stayed with the thunder... Literally 1-8 would be insane matchups with the pelicans being 9th and being a scary opponent... Now factor in the celtics/Raptors/Wizards/Hawks etc out east who are a threat for the East... Some of these teams might also add... The playoffs would be so much fun... But nope.

ewing
02-21-2017, 08:37 AM
It's over!!!!


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Scoots
02-21-2017, 09:47 AM
But do the Pelicans have a coach who can take advantage of the players he has, and can the training staff keep the players playing?

Blitzbolt
02-21-2017, 10:10 AM
My Memphis grizzlies have played big and dominated the paint for about 8 years we still have no tittle but we have won a lot of games especially some we shouldn't win like vs the warriors cavs ect.

PayDaPiper
02-21-2017, 10:33 AM
It will be interesting to see how this works out. Obviously both there numbers are going to slide a little bit.

they still get smoked by GS if they get to the 8 seed.. Holiday is nice, but no team that fills out there starting five with E'twaun Moore and Solomon Hill is beating the Warriors

Wade n Fade
02-21-2017, 11:07 AM
To be fair, the Grizzlies used two great big men together and that didn't stop the Heat or Warriors from winning their respective titles. What if Cousins is in foul trouble? There isn't a constant elite scoring threat from mid range or from the outside besides Davis. For the Pelicans to make the next step, they need a wing or an elite PG. I would see if they can pry Melo for the cheap.

mavwar53
02-21-2017, 11:47 AM
My Memphis grizzlies have played big and dominated the paint for about 8 years we still have no tittle but we have won a lot of games especially some we shouldn't win like vs the warriors cavs ect.

That's due to superb defensive effort, I could see Davis at least giving great effort on D if he is playing for something, but Cousins, not really.

Blitzbolt
02-21-2017, 06:27 PM
Another thing both of this guys love the face up game..... in order to make small teams pay you have to post them up(back to the basket) and make them rebound.

nastynice
02-21-2017, 07:57 PM
Another thing both of this guys love the face up game..... in order to make small teams pay you have to post them up(back to the basket) and make them rebound.

Yup

I thought cousins had a sick post game tho

tp13baby
02-21-2017, 08:06 PM
There hasn't been 2 bigs that dominate on both ends of the court, and to be fair Memphis come playoffs hasn't done much. They have great defensive players around their big men too.

I think Philly tried the Okafor and Embiid experiment. I think Nurkic and Jokic. Your PF has to spread the floor and play decent defense for it to work. Time will tell.

That's what makes Millsap so impressive. Defensively can step out and defend, play inside but can space the floor or play inside.

ewing
02-21-2017, 09:30 PM
Yup

I thought cousins had a sick post game tho

Cousins has to many ball skills for his own good and instead of using his physical dominance to catch the ball where can make quick destructive decisions he like to handle on the perimeter. I think the change of scenery may be good for him though. I like the idea of him with Davis. If they aren't too slow to defend they could work


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COOLbeans
02-22-2017, 05:09 PM
But do the Pelicans have a coach who can take advantage of the players he has, and can the training staff keep the players playing?

Gentry has almost no track record with playing this kind of talent in the front court. He had Amare, but this is something different imo

5ass
02-22-2017, 05:49 PM
Another thing both of this guys love the face up game..... in order to make small teams pay you have to post them up(back to the basket) and make them rebound.

But if teams are playing small its easier to post up... the biggest battle has to be on the boards IMO. For it to work, you have to outrebound the smaller team. Cousins and AD have to crash the offensive boards hard when teams go small.

ewing
02-22-2017, 06:51 PM
But if teams are playing small its easier to post up... the biggest battle has to be on the boards IMO. For it to work, you have to outrebound the smaller team. Cousins and AD have to crash the offensive boards hard when teams go small.

I agree and i think Cousins is capable of being an absolute beast on the offensive boards. I mean a terror. i think his infatuation with dribbling the ball takes him away from from a place would create more damage. With another scorer he should respect i think we may see him adjust his game

tredigs
02-22-2017, 09:00 PM
AD and Cousins are each averaging 28 PPG. These are two very talented and versatile big men teaming up. There aren't many front courts in the NBA that can stop both at the same time. Besides them though there's just a lot of talented young big men that can spread the floor and play inside. Embiid, Porzingis, Turner, ect.

What do you think?

What team based around their talented bigs is excelling? I feel like this is the kind of question more for for a post playoff series where a team like the Pelicans takes out Houston (I don't even want to hear this silliness about them challenging GS, it isn't happening).

KnicksorBust
02-22-2017, 10:03 PM
Pace-and-space will remain alive and well, but there will be a premium on tall guys who can do it all.

This. It is not that small ball died it is that big men have adapted to playing on the perimeter.

ewing
02-23-2017, 01:15 AM
Being able to shoot is a fade. It was valuable but after a couple years everyone realizes that is all about being tall

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DanG
02-23-2017, 03:01 AM
I don't see the Pelicans being any kind of a threat to the best small ball teams (CLE, GSW etc.), so no.

Scoots
02-23-2017, 10:06 AM
Another thing both of this guys love the face up game..... in order to make small teams pay you have to post them up(back to the basket) and make them rebound.

You also need small-ball like shooters to make teams pay for doubling from the wing.

Yanks All Day
02-23-2017, 12:51 PM
The NBA isn't about big men. It's actually not even about point guards, either, despite that being the common wisdom. It's about long, athletic forwards surrounded by capable shooters and wing defenders. That's why the majority of true cornerstone players are small forwards (or guys who are bigger shooting guards).

Boogie and AD are the two most talented big men the NBA has seen in years. I think they have complimenting skill sets that will gel wonderfully. I do worry that the Pelicans don't have the guard play to aid them, but it will certainly create buzz.

As for challenging Golden State, unless there's someone on the roster to check Kevin Durant, I'm not sure they'd even take a game in a 7 game series.

Scoots
02-23-2017, 06:27 PM
Pels won't contend until they can stay healthy.

Heediot
02-24-2017, 09:05 AM
The NBA isn't about big men. It's actually not even about point guards, either, despite that being the common wisdom. It's about long, athletic forwards surrounded by capable shooters and wing defenders. That's why the majority of true cornerstone players are small forwards (or guys who are bigger shooting guards).

Boogie and AD are the two most talented big men the NBA has seen in years. I think they have complimenting skill sets that will gel wonderfully. I do worry that the Pelicans don't have the guard play to aid them, but it will certainly create buzz.

As for challenging Golden State, unless there's someone on the roster to check Kevin Durant, I'm not sure they'd even take a game in a 7 game series.

The NBA, especially when it matters most in the playoffs is more about the combination of Size and skill. When defenses get stingier and game plan and focus on opposition weaknesses, and when the refs allow for more physical play, players need to be able to adapt. The best players are the ones who have both the skill and size, or are elitely skilled. You are right that right now it's the small forwards that are best suited to how the game is called/played in today's current nba. This is how is for offenses. Guys who rely on certain tactics in the regular season may flounder when the game is called differently. if you rely on refs spoon feeding you as a way to set uo your opponent in the regular season, you will be exposed to some degree (depending on player) in the playoffs.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 11:03 AM
until they allow physicality behind the 3 point line, the spacing game will continue to dominate. The Pels, after they mesh (might be next year), could present some unique challenges for many teams, but they will still need floor stretchers to compete.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2017, 11:05 AM
The NBA, especially when it matters most in the playoffs is more about the combination of Size and skill. When defenses get stingier and game plan and focus on opposition weaknesses, and when the refs allow for more physical play, players need to be able to adapt. The best players are the ones who have both the skill and size, or are elitely skilled. You are right that right now it's the small forwards that are best suited to how the game is called/played in today's current nba. This is how is for offenses. Guys who rely on certain tactics in the regular season may flounder when the game is called differently. if you rely on refs spoon feeding you as a way to set uo your opponent in the regular season, you will be exposed to some degree (depending on player) in the playoffs.

absolutely. You saw the whistles swallowed a bit in the finals, when the Cavs used physical play to bother the Dubs. It's still allowed, just not consistently.

Scoots
02-24-2017, 11:10 AM
The NBA, especially when it matters most in the playoffs is more about the combination of Size and skill. When defenses get stingier and game plan and focus on opposition weaknesses, and when the refs allow for more physical play, players need to be able to adapt. The best players are the ones who have both the skill and size, or are elitely skilled. You are right that right now it's the small forwards that are best suited to how the game is called/played in today's current nba. This is how is for offenses. Guys who rely on certain tactics in the regular season may flounder when the game is called differently. if you rely on refs spoon feeding you as a way to set uo your opponent in the regular season, you will be exposed to some degree (depending on player) in the playoffs.

I wish the refs were consistent in how they call the games. I've never understood why the rules changes keep adding to offense and the refs feel the need to help the defense in the post-season, and the league apparently doesn't feel the need to make the game stay consistent.

Scoots
02-24-2017, 11:11 AM
until they allow physicality behind the 3 point line, the spacing game will continue to dominate. The Pels, after they mesh (might be next year), could present some unique challenges for many teams, but they will still need floor stretchers to compete.

Haven't you read anything post-trade? Davis and Cousins ARE floor stretchers :)

JasonJohnHorn
02-24-2017, 06:52 PM
We have to see how they play together. We've seen to strong big men paired together before not work.

Drummond and Monroe are an unfair comparison because neither has range, and both DMC and AD do, but having two strong post players that can pass and have range looks good on paper, but doesn't always translate on the court.

I hope it does. I feel like if this was Rudy T or Pop, they could really make this work, but I'm not sure Gentry is the guy to make this work.

This trade is for the off-season: lure in a great coach and some top-tier free agents.

Agent008
02-25-2017, 06:50 PM
I think the league is going to be dominated by bigs in the near future. Not old-school post-up bigs, but the new inside-outside bigs. If you looks at recent drafts, most of the stars have been big men. The NBA is a star driven league. Coaches will adjust their style to feature their star players.

tp13baby
02-25-2017, 07:12 PM
I don't even think the Pelicans with that backcourt are an 8th seed when it comes down to it. You get Davis or Boogie tired, in foul trouble, against spread 4s, you will readily take them down. Houston did it game 1.

JasonJohnHorn
02-26-2017, 02:15 AM
The Mavs say no: 93:83.

ewing
02-26-2017, 10:05 AM
The Mavs say no: 93:83.

Boogie took 9 shots and 5 of them were from 3.

Scoots
02-26-2017, 10:29 AM
Haven't you read anything post-trade? Davis and Cousins ARE floor stretchers :)


Boogie took 9 shots and 5 of them were from 3.

See.