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Hawkeye15
02-17-2017, 02:07 PM
Thoughts?

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cbs-sports-50-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time-where-do-lebron-curry-rank/

I think Curry is too high, for now. But the list, up and down, is very fair to me personally.

I personally put Jabbar above Magic for sure.

HandsOnTheWheel
02-17-2017, 02:19 PM
Stick to football, CBS.

HandsOnTheWheel
02-17-2017, 02:22 PM
Cp3/Curry/Durant over Wade is laughable.

Rivera
02-17-2017, 02:35 PM
I should give the list more of a chance, but when I saw Dwight in the top 50 I stopped scrolling and he was like in the 50-48 range. I thought that was absurd personally and it offended me as a basketball fan

ManRam
02-17-2017, 02:46 PM
You're never gonna please everyone with a list like this, but this list is OK. Some things really stand out, like the Curry thing (they acknowledge that it might be polarizing, but it's not polarizing, it's just wrong) but from 1-18 and the real heavy hitters it works for me. I have a few personal tweaks (lower Russell, bump Shaq up a little, etc.) but it's not absurd.

I don't have LeBrona at #2 personally, but I wasn't surprised to see him there. I think it's his eventual landing spot, but I'm just not quite sure he's there yet.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2017, 02:51 PM
You're never gonna please everyone with a list like this, but this list is OK. Some things really stand out, like the Curry thing (they acknowledge that it might be polarizing, but it's not polarizing, it's just wrong) but from 1-18 and the real heavy hitters it works for me. I have a few personal tweaks (lower Russell, bump Shaq up a little, etc.) but it's not absurd.

I don't have LeBrona at #2 personally, but I wasn't surprised to see him there. I think it's his eventual landing spot, but I'm just not quite sure he's there yet.

My gripes are:

D-Rob a little low
For now, Durant/CP3/Curry should be below Wade.
Like you said, Russell a bit high, Shaq a bit low.
I have LeBron at #4 currently, but I think he moves into a top 2 position above Jabbar/Wilt for me by career end.

Outside that, not huge complaints. Bob Cousy doesn't really belong on the list, but whateva

Hawkeye15
02-17-2017, 02:53 PM
I should give the list more of a chance, but when I saw Dwight in the top 50 I stopped scrolling and he was like in the 50-48 range. I thought that was absurd personally and it offended me as a basketball fan

he was boss for some time in Orlando. Best paint protector in the game, and a mini-Shaq offensively. But yeah, he is a borderline player top 50 for me. I could live without him in there. I would have no issue bumping him for Unseld

Shammyguy3
02-17-2017, 02:53 PM
Everyone is ok except for Iverson. Some players too high others too low. Dwight deserves if - his 6 year pick was as dominant defensively as any other big man in the modern era and he was very efficient albeit limited offensively. Replace Mikan and Cousy too - just because a player was great for a 50s guy doesn't mean he is a top 50 greatest player ever.

I would consider these players to replace those three above: Mourning, mutombo, Mullin, Pau, Webber. And the fact they removed Walton for Milan doesn't make sense - Walton was dominant in both ends in a much tougher era and for his career actually played in more games

HandsOnTheWheel
02-17-2017, 02:56 PM
You're never gonna please everyone with a list like this, but this list is OK. Some things really stand out, like the Curry thing (they acknowledge that it might be polarizing, but it's not polarizing, it's just wrong) but from 1-18 and the real heavy hitters it works for me. I have a few personal tweaks (lower Russell, bump Shaq up a little, etc.) but it's not absurd.

I don't have LeBrona at #2 personally, but I wasn't surprised to see him there. I think it's his eventual landing spot, but I'm just not quite sure he's there yet.

Agreed.

JLynn943
02-17-2017, 02:57 PM
I don't think Dwight belongs on the list, but he was dominant for a while, so I guess it's okay if you put more value on peak play.

Curry is way too high for now, and Wade should be above him, Durant, CP3 for sure.

Otherwise, it's a pretty good list. A some people could be moved up or down a couple of spots, but it's within acceptable range.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2017, 03:02 PM
Cp3/Curry/Durant over Wade is laughable.

for now it is. I would guess all 3 finish ahead of him by the time they are done though. Wade's crashing style, and refusal to expand his perimeter game as he slowed, just limits his longevity argument badly. As does a couple of those playoff runs with the Heat, where his injuries rendered him a pretty meh player. Peak only gets you so high by itself.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2017, 03:03 PM
according to a few, Bosh, Chalmers, Birdman, and Battier probably belong in the top 50, along with Wade.

HandsOnTheWheel
02-17-2017, 03:10 PM
for now it is. I would guess all 3 finish ahead of him by the time they are done though. Wade's crashing style, and refusal to expand his perimeter game as he slowed, just limits his longevity argument badly. As does a couple of those playoff runs with the Heat, where his injuries rendered him a pretty meh player. Peak only gets you so high by itself.

His accolades speak for itself.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2017, 03:14 PM
His accolades speak for itself.

huh?

My point is, a guy like Wade, who while he had an awesome peak for most his 20's, his game went south fast. Longevity is not on his side, and his peak, while really good, won't sit with Bird, or Magic, who don't have the longevity argument either.

tredigs
02-17-2017, 03:16 PM
Is there a 2 time MVP and leader of a title winning team below Curry? He's a little higher than I have him (I have him and KD just in the top 25), but he's in that range. In time he has top 12 potential.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2017, 03:21 PM
Is there a 2 time MVP and leader of a title winning team below Curry? He's a little higher than I have him (I have him and KD just in the top 25), but he's in that range. In time he has top 12 potential.

the age old notion of putting a sub-30 year old ahead of established HOF'ers will always draw criticism. Factor in no longevity yet.

More like a, wait your turn young man haha

Rivera
02-17-2017, 03:24 PM
he was boss for some time in Orlando. Best paint protector in the game, and a mini-Shaq offensively. But yeah, he is a borderline player top 50 for me. I could live without him in there. I would have no issue bumping him for Unseld

no doubt, I was a huge fan of his being an Orlando fan. But I think it was stephen jackson who said it on the Jump. He looks at Dwight and shakes his head. He has everything you want and need and he never developed a basketball game

he was a freak for a short amount of time, but there were many players, easily over 50 that are better than Dwight he frustrated the heck out of me

He never dedicated himself to winning

tredigs
02-17-2017, 03:27 PM
the age old notion of putting a sub-30 year old ahead of established HOF'ers will always draw criticism. Factor in no longevity yet.

More like a, wait your turn young man haha
I feel that, it's a year too early to have him top 20 for me personally, but if he sustains his MVP level caliber impact through the playoffs (especially if they dominate), then he's right there imo. His career is proven enough for me. Even as a rookie (after unleashed in the 2nd half), he was incredible. And hell he's already played more games than a guy like George Mikan. LBJ #2 is fine for me as well. I have him 3.

HandsOnTheWheel
02-17-2017, 03:30 PM
Top 30-35 sounds feasible IMO for both Curry and Durant as it stands right now. My only knock on Curry is poor finals play/no finals MVP.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2017, 03:34 PM
I feel that, its a year too early to have him top 20 for me personally, but if he sustains his MVP level caliber impact through the playoffs (especially if they dominate), then he's right there imo. His career is proven enough for me. Even as a rookie (after unleashed in the 2nd half), he was incredible. And he'll he's already played more games than a guy like George Milan. LBJ #2 Is fine for me as well. I have him 3.

I mean, if he were to retire today, for no reason, #19 isn't really all that unfair.

tredigs
02-17-2017, 03:36 PM
no doubt, I was a huge fan of his being an Orlando fan. But I think it was stephen jackson who said it on the Jump. He looks at Dwight and shakes his head. He has everything you want and need and he never developed a basketball game

he was a freak for a short amount of time, but there were many players, easily over 50 that are better than Dwight he frustrated the heck out of me

He never dedicated himself to winning


Top 30-35 sounds feasible IMO for both Curry and Durant as it stands right now. My only knock on Curry is poor finals play/no finals MVP.

Poor Finals play last year, but not the prior Finals. Just a bit underwhelming based on MVP expectations. But he was very good. 26/5/6 on 59% TS with two 4th quarters that tied the All-Time record for most points scored. Add in the MVP'S and records and he is a strong candidate for top 25.

HandsOnTheWheel
02-17-2017, 03:37 PM
2-time MVP Nash at #28. Huh.

warfelg
02-17-2017, 05:31 PM
Too many current players on that list.

And Allen Iverson at 34? Please.

YAALREADYKNO
02-17-2017, 06:42 PM
😂😂😂

Yanks All Day
02-17-2017, 07:40 PM
Fine with LeBron at 2, though I imagine that will spark a huge debate.

Can't see how Steph is 19 right now, but in 3-4 years I think 19 will actually be his floor on the list. Greatest shooter of all time, but has really only had 3 elite years thus far. Certainly can't put him above D-Wade.

Kevin Durant seems a little high at the moment at 24 without a ring. But even if he NEVER wins one, I still think he'll finish his career in the top 12-15 all time.

Again, Wade at 25 is too low if Steph is 19.

It seemed almost silly to me to see Kawhi Leonard in the top 50 all time, but when I looked at the players who fell off and the next bunch after the top 50, I can actually see it. Say all you want about past generations, but there are A LOT of current or recently retired players on this list. Basketball might be a "softer" game now, but the players are bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic, and more skilled across the board now more than ever. It's something to sit back and appreciate.

SirSkyHook
02-17-2017, 08:18 PM
LeBron James- leaves the kingdom where he was the annointed king to form a super team in the SAME CONFERENCE as said first kingdom for an easier road to a championship.

LeBron James- leaves second team once things got hard with the other two stars aging and slowing, to form another super team back home to ensure yet again another easy road to the finals.

LeBron James- In the Finals where stars becomes legends for overcoming the obstacles set in front of them, he decides nah this ish is to hard I need another advantage. He than complains by literally telling on Draymond to get him suspended. A move that was so weak it through of his competition for a couple of games to get him back in the series. REALLY!!!

LeBron James- With his team literally one possession from being eliminated out of the Finals and on the biggest stage of his career, he ran from the opportunity to place a death blow in his competition. Instead he let Kyrie be the hero. I wander what he would have said if the shot was missed. We'll never know. He got lucky.

LeBron James- aside from his unmeasurable god giving talents took the roll of leagues biggest and worse flopper. It was so bad that the league now punishes it lol wow.

LeBron James- with the now second most talented team in the league fills things may get alittle tuff to compete in the Finals, is now complaining to management for EVEN MORE HELP. Even before Love went down. I guess the guy needs to always have the deepest team to be great.......

LeBron James- in all his running, he has never ran towards a challenge. That's why I believe he never came out to the harder conference to test his greatness.

LeBron James- with all he has done to put himself in a winning situation he still has an losing record in the finals 3-4 ouch. It's his teams fault right? Lol

This guy is regarded as the second greatest every? I know it's not an NBA official 50 greatest list, but damn . Really? And people agree with this?

Them stats though...........

Shammyguy3
02-17-2017, 08:33 PM
Too many current players on that list.

And Allen Iverson at 34? Please.

which current players shouldn't be on that list?

NJBASEBALL22
02-17-2017, 09:49 PM
2.5 seasons of elite play does not get you in the top 20... maybe top 40.

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ewing
02-17-2017, 11:33 PM
fake news

FlashBolt
02-18-2017, 08:33 PM
LMAO, I gave up when I saw Curry ahead of Wade. Curry's career is literally four years. It's amazing how the media loves this dude when he disappeared for one NBA Finals and played below expectations while Wade had one of the greatest and a longer career. He'll be up there eventually but wow, four years is enough for someone to be that high on a list? "title of a winning team." Andre Iguodala was the Finals MVP and performed better than Curry.
not even checking the list but I saw LeBron at #2 because of the picture. Can anyone argue that KAJ is better than LeBron? Won a few titles when he was just a good player. Can't give him too much points for that.

ewing
02-19-2017, 12:22 AM
LMAO, I gave up when I saw Curry ahead of Wade. Curry's career is literally four years. It's amazing how the media loves this dude when he disappeared for one NBA Finals and played below expectations while Wade had one of the greatest and a longer career. He'll be up there eventually but wow, four years is enough for someone to be that high on a list? "title of a winning team." Andre Iguodala was the Finals MVP and performed better than Curry.
not even checking the list but I saw LeBron at #2 because of the picture. Can anyone argue that KAJ is better than LeBron? Won a few titles when he was just a good player. Can't give him too much points for that.

Dude they ranked Scottie Pippen in front of D Wade?

JordansBulls
02-19-2017, 12:56 AM
Not totally horrible, but not all that great either. What's Magic's case over Kareem and Russell? At least with Lebron his peak and prime is up there, but Magic doesn't have a better peak nor prime than Kareem nor Russell nor more accolades. What's Pippen's case over Wade or Robinson?
Not sure I agree with Pierce over Barry either.
Hondo too low and no Cowens on the list.

JordansBulls
02-19-2017, 12:57 AM
Here is list in order


1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6. Bill Russell
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Shaquille O’Neal
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Jerry West
14. Moses Malone
15. Kevin Garnett
16. Karl Malone
17. Dirk Nowitzki
18. Julius Erving
19. Stephen Curry
20. Charles Barkley
21. Chris Paul
22. Scottie Pippen
23. John Stockton
24. Kevin Durant
25. Dwyane Wade
26. Elgin Baylor
27. David Robinson
28. Steve Nash
29. Jason Kidd
30. Clyde Drexler
31. Patrick Ewing
32. Walt Frazier
33. John Havlicek
34. Allen Iverson
35. Isiah Thomas
36. Bob Cousy
37. George Mikan
38. Paul Pierce
39. Rick Barry
40. Dolph Schayes
41. Elvin Hayes
42. Gary Payton
43. George Gervin
44. Kevin McHale
45. Bob Pettit
46. Ray Allen
47. Reggie Miller
48. Dominique Wilkins
49. Dwight Howard
50. Kawhi Leonard

europagnpilgrim
02-19-2017, 01:06 AM
LMAO, I gave up when I saw Curry ahead of Wade. Curry's career is literally four years. It's amazing how the media loves this dude when he disappeared for one NBA Finals and played below expectations while Wade had one of the greatest and a longer career. He'll be up there eventually but wow, four years is enough for someone to be that high on a list? "title of a winning team." Andre Iguodala was the Finals MVP and performed better than Curry.
not even checking the list but I saw LeBron at #2 because of the picture. Can anyone argue that KAJ is better than LeBron? Won a few titles when he was just a good player. Can't give him too much points for that.

Jabbar won 71 straight HS games then 3 peat ncaa along with tournament mvps and 2 college player of year awards(88-2 overall record there) and they banned the dunk because of him then went to a start up nba franchise in 69' and won a title in 2 yrs with that team and won 3 mvp awards there his first 5 yrs

then went to Lakers and won 3 more league mvp's and 5 more rings, now if the most unstoppable signature shot ever along with 6 nba mvps and 6 rings don't make an argument as who was better than I don't know what is and we may as well just throw away stats/accomplishments and turn on the game film(eye test) and that will make it even more clear that Jabbar is regarded by some as the best player to ever lace them up over Jordan/Dipper and whoever else you want to throw out that way

I put more stock into NBA MVP's than I do actual rings when debating who was the better player but nothing beats the eye test and nothing ever will beat the eye test, its a reason why Dipper isn't mentioned by many because they never got to see him play and then they get news fed that all he did was dunk on short white guys when it was he played more a finesse skill style and only threw the Dipper dunk down when he felt like it or got pissed off

if you taking and giving points then Lebron by many lose many points for screaming out not 5 or 6 or 7 and won only 2 when joining the Heat then using that lame excuse to go back home and win one for the Land when it was clear as day that Wade was done being 06' version Wade and teamed back up with a younger all star duo, you cant give Lebron points for that if you are playing that card, Magic was the young gun to Jabbar as Irving is to Lebron at this stage of his career, who hit that game winning shot over Curry in past Finals? the Lebron block didn't win the game did it? it put them in position no doubt but if Irving doesn't hit that shot then that block wouldn't mean jack because they weren't winning the game at that point of the game

europagnpilgrim
02-19-2017, 01:15 AM
Here is list in order


1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6. Bill Russell
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Shaquille O’Neal
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Jerry West
14. Moses Malone
15. Kevin Garnett
16. Karl Malone
17. Dirk Nowitzki
18. Julius Erving
19. Stephen Curry
20. Charles Barkley
21. Chris Paul
22. Scottie Pippen
23. John Stockton
24. Kevin Durant
25. Dwyane Wade
26. Elgin Baylor
27. David Robinson
28. Steve Nash
29. Jason Kidd
30. Clyde Drexler
31. Patrick Ewing
32. Walt Frazier
33. John Havlicek
34. Allen Iverson
35. Isiah Thomas
36. Bob Cousy
37. George Mikan
38. Paul Pierce
39. Rick Barry
40. Dolph Schayes
41. Elvin Hayes
42. Gary Payton
43. George Gervin
44. Kevin McHale
45. Bob Pettit
46. Ray Allen
47. Reggie Miller
48. Dominique Wilkins
49. Dwight Howard
50. Kawhi Leonard

I bet if the majority of basketball minds had the chance to pick just one of these players starting from scratch with the overall number 1 pick counting all eras I bet the vast majority would pick that player who is number 3 on this flawed list

tredigs
02-19-2017, 01:50 AM
LMAO, I gave up when I saw Curry ahead of Wade. Curry's career is literally four years. It's amazing how the media loves this dude when he disappeared for one NBA Finals and played below expectations while Wade had one of the greatest and a longer career. He'll be up there eventually but wow, four years is enough for someone to be that high on a list? "title of a winning team." Andre Iguodala was the Finals MVP and performed better than Curry.
not even checking the list but I saw LeBron at #2 because of the picture. Can anyone argue that KAJ is better than LeBron? Won a few titles when he was just a good player. Can't give him too much points for that.

Lol. Deep breaths child. Curry can't hurt you anymore.

Well, unless you score the 8 seed.

Jamiecballer
02-19-2017, 05:53 PM
Generally speaking pretty good list although I find choices 19, 28 and 34 rather ludicrous.

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Sadds The Gr8
02-19-2017, 06:24 PM
Cp3/Curry/Durant over Wade is laughable.

none are laughable, but I agree he's better than cp3. Curry/Durant will finish ahead tho.

valade16
02-19-2017, 07:59 PM
Kareem too low

Paul and Pippen too high

Durant and Wade too low

David Robinson too low

Not a terrible list but definitely leans towards newer players.

warfelg
02-19-2017, 08:36 PM
Kareem too low

Paul and Pippen too high

Durant and Wade too low

David Robinson too low

Not a terrible list but definitely leans towards newer players.

Agreed on the bolded.

warfelg
02-19-2017, 08:39 PM
Generally speaking pretty good list although I find choices 19, 28 and 34 rather ludicrous.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

In which way?

LA_Raiders
02-20-2017, 10:20 PM
Thrash. Curry, LeBron, Leonard, Lol. LeBron needs Big 3s to win ships.

MJ, Kobe, Magic, Kareem & Russell

Shammyguy3
02-20-2017, 11:20 PM
Thrash. Curry, LeBron, Leonard, Lol. LeBron needs Big 3s to win ships.

MJ, Kobe, Magic, Kareem & Russell

Magic - Worthy - Kareem? (can add Cooper)
Bird - McHale - Parish? (can add DJ)
MJ - Scottie - Rodman/Grant?
etc

naps
02-20-2017, 11:46 PM
Steph Curry @19??
Let's put T-Mac somewhere around 22 then.

Give me Shaq over anyone not named Jordan, LeBron.

Wade is too low. The disrespect is insane for this man. People like CP3, Pippen are ahead of Wade...gimme a effing break.

FlashBolt
02-21-2017, 12:16 AM
Lol. Deep breaths child. Curry can't hurt you anymore.

Well, unless you score the 8 seed.

i know you want anyone besides pelicans.. you guys are sweating!

mightybosstone
02-21-2017, 03:06 PM
I actually think this is a really solid list. It's rare that I find a list of all-time players I agree with so much, but with the exception of a few things here or there, this is pretty solid. Here are my complaints:

- Kawhi shouldn't be all-time top 50. He hasn't accomplished enough at this point to justify that position, and he's had essentially one year as a top 5 player in the league. This list clearly gives an edge to guys currently in the league, and nowhere was this more apparent than Leonard being included.
- I don't knock them for it, but I personally wouldn't have Miller, Hayes, Schayes or Cousy in my top 50 either. I'd probably agree with the other 45 guys, though.
- Robinson and Wade are both too low. Their peaks rivaled the greatest of any player at their positions. I'd put them both in my top 20.
- I don't hate the idea of Curry and Durant both being in the top 30. I think Durant is right about where he should be, but Curry is probably 5-10 spots higher than he deserves to be at this point. That being said. I think Curry legitimately has top 5-10 all-time potential.
- Don't get me started on Karl Malone, but suffice it to say he would not crack my top 20.
- The order is a little different, but my top 14 guys are identical. I'd have Hakeem 3-4 spots higher and Magic 3-4 spots lower. But they did a damn good job nailing down the top guys in this list.
- The biggest omission for me is Bill Walton. His peak was extremely short, but it rivals some of the greatest peaks of all-time. You could probably count on one hand the number of players who won MVP, DPOY, a championship and Finals MVP in a two-year span.

mightybosstone
02-21-2017, 03:09 PM
And for anyone complaining about Iverson being too low, I'd completely disagree. I actually think the list totally nailed the spots of both he and Isiah Thomas. Those guys are the two players I see too often rated in the top 25, but their efficiency as scorers was totally piss poor. I think they're both absolutely deserving of a top 40 discussion, and top 35 seems right about where I'd put them as well.

Bartlee23
02-21-2017, 04:59 PM
Dude they ranked Scottie Pippen in front of D Wade?

NBA Championships: Pippen 6 Wade 2
NBA Finals MVP's: Pippen 0 Wade 1
NBA All-Star/MVP: Pippen 7/1 Wade 12/1
NBA First team/ Second Team/ Third Team: Pippen 3/2/2 Wade 2/3/3
All-Defense First Team/Second team: Pippen 8/2 Wade 0/3
NBA Scoring Champion: Pippen 0 Wade 1
NBA Steals leader: Pippen 1 Wade 0

What's the problem? Pippen also holds the career record in playoff steals. I could be silly and bring up Pippen's gold medals as well as a few other things but in all honesty, Pippen deserves to be ranked above Wade for being the better all-around player.

Judging from that list IMO the only players playing today that I have on my list are Lebron, Dirk, Wade, and CP3 but that doesn't mean others won't make it. I do have Stockton, Pippen and Wade over CP3 and have Kareem, Magic and Wilt over Lebron but again that's MY OPINION. I can see players like Curry, Leonard and Durant making the list but in time. Curry and Leonard are well on their way and Durant needs to do some winning to move up the list. I never saw players like Cousy, Pettit and Schayes play so kind of hard to judge them and I don't think realistically if anyone here is starting a team, they're picking Cousy over Curry... lol. I was never big on Dwight Howard.

mightybosstone
02-21-2017, 05:28 PM
NBA Championships: Pippen 6 Wade 2
NBA Finals MVP's: Pippen 0 Wade 1
NBA All-Star/MVP: Pippen 7/1 Wade 12/1
NBA First team/ Second Team/ Third Team: Pippen 3/2/2 Wade 2/3/3
All-Defense First Team/Second team: Pippen 8/2 Wade 0/3
NBA Scoring Champion: Pippen 0 Wade 1
NBA Steals leader: Pippen 1 Wade 0

What's the problem? Pippen also holds the career record in playoff steals. I could be silly and bring up Pippen's gold medals as well as a few other things but in all honesty, Pippen deserves to be ranked above Wade for being the better all-around player.

Judging from that list IMO the only players playing today that I have on my list are Lebron, Dirk, Wade, and CP3 but that doesn't mean others won't make it. I do have Stockton, Pippen and Wade over CP3 and have Kareem, Magic and Wilt over Lebron but again that's MY OPINION. I can see players like Curry, Leonard and Durant making the list but in time. Curry and Leonard are well on their way and Durant needs to do some winning to move up the list. I never saw players like Cousy, Pettit and Schayes play so kind of hard to judge them and I don't think realistically if anyone here is starting a team, they're picking Cousy over Curry... lol. I was never big on Dwight Howard.

Pippen was a great player and someone I regularly have in my top 25. He's very deserving of his place on this list, and I have no qualms with that. But his peak is nothing compared to Wade. Wade's peak is probably the second greatest of any SG in NBA history. I was literally just having this conversation with a guy I know a few days ago. We were talking about SGs behind Jordan, and I told him that I'd take Kobe's career over any other non-Jordan SG without question. But if I could have one SG for one season at his peak, I'd take Wade.

Pippen is probably the greatest No. 2 in NBA history, but he's ultimately still a No. 2. And it's not like he never got a chance to prove himself as a No. 1 his entire career. He did, and in those seasons, his production was not remotely close to what Wade was capable of at his best. Wade also boasts one of the greatest (if not the greatest) NBA postseason performances in the history of the league.

Bartlee23
02-21-2017, 05:59 PM
Pippen was a great player and someone I regularly have in my top 25. He's very deserving of his place on this list, and I have no qualms with that. But his peak is nothing compared to Wade. Wade's peak is probably the second greatest of any SG in NBA history. I was literally just having this conversation with a guy I know a few days ago. We were talking about SGs behind Jordan, and I told him that I'd take Kobe's career over any other non-Jordan SG without question. But if I could have one SG for one season at his peak, I'd take Wade.

Pippen is probably the greatest No. 2 in NBA history, but he's ultimately still a No. 2. And it's not like he never got a chance to prove himself as a No. 1 his entire career. He did, and in those seasons, his production was not remotely close to what Wade was capable of at his best. Wade also boasts one of the greatest (if not the greatest) NBA postseason performances in the history of the league.

Fair argument that was well thoughtout and explained well and I respect your opinion. I think Wade is one of the best all time and there is no doubt about that.

Pippen IMO is the better all-around player all time which is generally what these lists are all about. As far as a " peak" without a doubt Wade is very high. Pippen could just do so many things at a high level which is why I rate him so high on my personal list. You are correct though Wade did prove himself to be a legit #1 but that's why I said "my opinion."

To each there own.... both great.

Hawkeye15
02-21-2017, 06:05 PM
And for anyone complaining about Iverson being too low, I'd completely disagree. I actually think the list totally nailed the spots of both he and Isiah Thomas. Those guys are the two players I see too often rated in the top 25, but their efficiency as scorers was totally piss poor. I think they're both absolutely deserving of a top 40 discussion, and top 35 seems right about where I'd put them as well.

Iverson, and to a lesser degree, Zeke, defenders, are rabid, I will give them that.

35-40 sounds about right for AI. I might even bump him into the 40's, but that is me.

valade16
02-21-2017, 07:22 PM
Based on the devaluing of Isiah Thomas we have seen over the years due to his advanced stats, I will be very interested to see what history says of Klay Thompson considering his advanced stats are fairly poop.

His prestige right now far exceeds his statistical impact.

TheDish87
02-22-2017, 01:22 PM
i dont think Pierce or Reggie belong on this list

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 02:21 PM
Based on the devaluing of Isiah Thomas we have seen over the years due to his advanced stats, I will be very interested to see what history says of Klay Thompson considering his advanced stats are fairly poop.

His prestige right now far exceeds his statistical impact.

Klay to me is the modern Reggie, without the foul draw ability. And it needs to be factored in, that Klay gets WAY more wide open looks than he would on almost any other team. His defense, while at the very least a plus, is overrated too. I read all the time that he is this really good defender. Meh, is he fine, but he shouldn't be confused with Tony Allen for instance.

JAZZNC
02-22-2017, 02:32 PM
I actually think this is a really solid list. It's rare that I find a list of all-time players I agree with so much, but with the exception of a few things here or there, this is pretty solid. Here are my complaints:

- Kawhi shouldn't be all-time top 50. He hasn't accomplished enough at this point to justify that position, and he's had essentially one year as a top 5 player in the league. This list clearly gives an edge to guys currently in the league, and nowhere was this more apparent than Leonard being included.
- I don't knock them for it, but I personally wouldn't have Miller, Hayes, Schayes or Cousy in my top 50 either. I'd probably agree with the other 45 guys, though.
- Robinson and Wade are both too low. Their peaks rivaled the greatest of any player at their positions. I'd put them both in my top 20.
- I don't hate the idea of Curry and Durant both being in the top 30. I think Durant is right about where he should be, but Curry is probably 5-10 spots higher than he deserves to be at this point. That being said. I think Curry legitimately has top 5-10 all-time potential.
- Don't get me started on Karl Malone, but suffice it to say he would not crack my top 20.
- The order is a little different, but my top 14 guys are identical. I'd have Hakeem 3-4 spots higher and Magic 3-4 spots lower. But they did a damn good job nailing down the top guys in this list.
- The biggest omission for me is Bill Walton. His peak was extremely short, but it rivals some of the greatest peaks of all-time. You could probably count on one hand the number of players who won MVP, DPOY, a championship and Finals MVP in a two-year span.
Your hatred for Malone runs deep!! It's ok though, we all have players we hate beyond reason and can't properly discuss. For me it's KG and Pippen.

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 02:37 PM
Your hatred for Malone runs deep!! It's ok though, we all have players we hate beyond reason and can't properly discuss. For me it's KG and Pippen.

dude, when I lived in Houston, I was amazed at how much Rox fans HATE Utah. I don't even get why really, even though it's been explained to me. How many chips did Utah win?

JAZZNC
02-22-2017, 03:56 PM
dude, when I lived in Houston, I was amazed at how much Rox fans HATE Utah. I don't even get why really, even though it's been explained to me. How many chips did Utah win?

Exactly zero. Hell Malone and Stockton get hate everywhere though. I grew up in North Carolina and every time somebody found out I was a Jazz fan they'd immediately go to trashing both of them...I don't understand the hate those two get but whatever, it is what it is!

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 04:01 PM
Exactly zero. Hell Malone and Stockton get hate everywhere though. I grew up in North Carolina and every time somebody found out I was a Jazz fan they'd immediately go to trashing both of them...I don't understand the hate those two get but whatever, it is what it is!

I grew up mostly in Minnesota, and for around 4 years, we lived across the street from a Mormon family, and their youngest son was my brothers age, so we played basketball in our driveway like everyday it wasn't winter. He had a Karl Malone poster on his wall (the typical hand behind the head, going for a dunk). He LOVED the Jazz haha.

You might be right, I don't know of many fans of the duo. I always like Stockton quite a bit, and while I get the Malone hate, he was far from an overprivelaged primmadonna. He worked his butt off to become what he did.

mightybosstone
02-22-2017, 07:25 PM
Your hatred for Malone runs deep!! It's ok though, we all have players we hate beyond reason and can't properly discuss. For me it's KG and Pippen.


dude, when I lived in Houston, I was amazed at how much Rox fans HATE Utah. I don't even get why really, even though it's been explained to me. How many chips did Utah win?

I'll admit my hatred for Malone is far from fair. If I ever actually sat down and looked at him objectively, I'd probably throw him into the tail end of that grouping of KG, Dirk, Wade, Barkley and Robinson, somewhere in the early 20s. But I can't get past how much I loathe the guy.

Part of it is that the Jazz were the biggest rival of the Rockets for the better part of the 90s and 2000s. Part of it is that I think Malone was arguably the biggest playoff underperformer in NBA history (or at least well deserving of being in the conversation). But above all else, he was just like a super villain for little MBT growing up. I think everyone has that one athlete they just completely detested when they were a kid, and Karl Malone was that guy for me. I hated the Jazz, and he was at the heart of that hate.

Hawkeye15
02-23-2017, 11:49 AM
I'll admit my hatred for Malone is far from fair. If I ever actually sat down and looked at him objectively, I'd probably throw him into the tail end of that grouping of KG, Dirk, Wade, Barkley and Robinson, somewhere in the early 20s. But I can't get past how much I loathe the guy.

Part of it is that the Jazz were the biggest rival of the Rockets for the better part of the 90s and 2000s. Part of it is that I think Malone was arguably the biggest playoff underperformer in NBA history (or at least well deserving of being in the conversation). But above all else, he was just like a super villain for little MBT growing up. I think everyone has that one athlete they just completely detested when they were a kid, and Karl Malone was that guy for me. I hated the Jazz, and he was at the heart of that hate.

haha, love this part. I mean, is what it is dude, we can't help who we despise, everyone has a player that fits that description.

bagwell368
02-23-2017, 03:07 PM
The list got serious at about #20. Wilt and Russell both too high.

Charles used to hang out at 9-12 range, did a big slip.

I liked how they said nobody talks about Hakeem as the best C. I'd say he does no worse than #2 in a poll here now, and he's been #1 in a few - the greatest all around C I've ever seen, or will ever see since the state of the post has gone to the dogs.