PDA

View Full Version : More Desperate Team at the deadline and going forward?



More-Than-Most
02-15-2017, 04:24 AM
Lakers or Knicks?

We have the 2 biggest markets in sports.... The lakers look like the 2nd worst team in basketball where the knicks who were suppose to be a contender look like the definition of dysfunction... Which team looks more desperate and which is in the worst situation? I like DLO the most out of both teams but I have a clear bias there... Porz clearly right now has by far the most value of the 2 teams and the knicks have their picks where the lakers have Ingram/Zub and have to hope to keep their pick.

Pros

Knicks have Porz and their pick and the ability to trade Melo... The lakers have Ingram/Clarkson and the ability to trade a randle

Cons

Lakers look like the 2nd worst team in all of basketball with no clear direction and could lose their pick to the sixers.... They have really bad contracts signed this past off season with DLO showing no signs of growth and Ingram looking incredibly raw.

Knicks have Phil jackson and Porz has regressed on defense... Knicks also have really bad contracts and again they have Phil Jackson.


I have said it all along the NBA would benefit the most if these 2 teams were relevant or at least good but neither can get out of their own way.... So again Who is the most desperate and which team really has it worse?

mightybosstone
02-15-2017, 08:55 AM
Bad teams typically aren't desperate at the trade deadline. Good ones are. That being said, the Lakers at least seem to have a plan to rebuild. So I like where they're at far better from a longterm planning perspective, and I actually wouldn't describe them as "desperate" at all.

I'm not really sure what I would describe the Knicks as. They're not really desperate right now, more just ill-conceived. That roster was a mess from the start, and instead of having a fire sale and rebuilding around Porzingis like they should have, they reloaded with Chicago's has-beens in the offseason. They're in limbo right now, because this team has zero chance to do anything in the playoffs, but they're not getting a top pick in the draft either.

Of the two teams, New York does have the best building block in Porzingis. But Phil and Dolan have to wake up and realize this roster needs to be blown up. If they're smart, they'll try to get the most value they can out of Melo while he's still got value left. And they should probably trade off all the other veterans as well. The worst thing they could do at the deadline is double down on this roster and trade for more veteran talent. That would be disastrous.

Giannis94
02-15-2017, 08:59 AM
Desperate? How abput the Pistons. Theu have done everything they can to put a qualoty roster out there and.....competing the 8 seed with a few bad contracts, albeit not terrible ones, and not much improvement from years past?

However, I do not think they will be desperate, but rather opportunistic and more willing to rebuild than in years past..


And now que the Giannis is being traded ******** for I have posted in this thread......

mightybosstone
02-15-2017, 09:08 AM
Desperate? How abput the Pistons. Theu have done everything they can to put a qualoty roster out there and.....competing the 8 seed with a few bad contracts, albeit not terrible ones, and not much improvement from years past?

However, I do not think they will be desperate, but rather opportunistic and more willing to rebuild than in years past..


And now que the Giannis is being traded ******** for I have posted in this thread......

You posting in this thread essentially confirmed a Giannis for Porzingis trade. Waiting for the Woj bomb any minute now...

Giannis94
02-15-2017, 09:24 AM
You posting in this thread essentially confirmed a Giannis for Porzingis trade. Waiting for the Woj bomb any minute now...
I actually made a serious post. You should do the same instead of trolling me.

mightybosstone
02-15-2017, 09:40 AM
I actually made a serious post. You should do the same instead of trolling me.

lol. Look at the post above, dude. I posted three paragraphs before your "serious post." Also, I wasn't actually trolling you in this case. Just messing with ya. If I were trolling, I would make it far less obvious.

Vinylman
02-15-2017, 10:07 AM
ummm...

Neither of those teams are desperate because they both make bank...

The Lakers just need to trade swaggy pee pee and Lou for assets...

If they could get late firsts for both (not unreasonable now that more teams in the east think they have a shot) they might be able to package them with Deng or Mozgov in the offseason to dump their contracts.

If I am the Knicks I do nothing at the deadline and wait until the summer because melo might be open to other locations once he knows where guys like CP3 and others might land

Giannis94
02-15-2017, 10:18 AM
ummm...

Neither of those teams are desperate because they both make bank...

The Lakers just need to trade swaggy pee pee and Lou for assets...

If they could get late firsts for both (not unreasonable now that more teams in the east think they have a shot) they might be able to package them with Deng or Mozgov in the offseason to dump their contracts.

If I am the Knicks I do nothing at the deadline and wait until the summer because melo might be open to other locations once he knows where guys like CP3 and others might land

when I think Desperate I think the Brooklyn-Celts or some of the trades in the other thread about "Best and worst trades in franchise history".

I think desperate is a bad word choice and would be willing to be that MTM meant "shake things up" as teams like the Bulls, SAC, NYK and a few others have been mismanaged terribly and are in a **** position because of that.

Giannis94
02-15-2017, 10:21 AM
lol. Look at the post above, dude. I posted three paragraphs before your "serious post." Also, I wasn't actually trolling you in this case. Just messing with ya. If I were trolling, I would make it far less obvious.

Gotcha. But if they did trade Giannis for Porzy and scrubs I would legitimately move to Canada. Or mexico. But I feel canada is safer.

mrblisterdundee
02-15-2017, 12:25 PM
We've already seen the most desperate teams at the trade deadline blow their loads, whether it's Portland shipping off Plumlee to ensure they don't make the playoffs, or the Magic sending off Ibaka so the original trade for him ended up only 85 percent moronic.

Giannis94
02-15-2017, 12:29 PM
We've already seen the most desperate teams at the trade deadline blow their loads, whether it's Portland shipping off Plumlee to ensure they don't make the playoffs, or the Magic sending off Ibaka so the original trade for him ended up only 85 percent moronic.

or the Horncats acquiring plumdog millionaire.

LongIslandIcedZ
02-15-2017, 12:53 PM
I dont totally understand the question. Desperate for what? Neither are desperate for wins, as tanking would be more beneficial for both. Both are financial successes, so they arent desperate in that sense.

Who is more desperate to win? Probably the Knicks (although by a very small amount). The Lakers need to be tanking. Lakers could be in a great position, or terrible depending on if they get to keep their pick.

Knicks are in a better position IMO because their first rounder is guaranteed, and the Lakers isnt. I also think Porzingis is a higher ceiling player than anyone on the Lakers right now. Porzingis offense has been good all season, and his D has gotten so much better recently.

tp13baby
02-15-2017, 01:15 PM
I don't think either team is that desperate. Lakers are rebuilding, Knicks will find a team to unload Melo.

Pistons, Chicago, Kings, Clippers should be more desperate with everything that surrounds their team.

Crackadalic
02-15-2017, 01:28 PM
Lakers or Knicks?

We have the 2 biggest markets in sports.... The lakers look like the 2nd worst team in basketball where the knicks who were suppose to be a contender look like the definition of dysfunction... Which team looks more desperate and which is in the worst situation? I like DLO the most out of both teams but I have a clear bias there... Porz clearly right now has by far the most value of the 2 teams and the knicks have their picks where the lakers have Ingram/Zub and have to hope to keep their pick.

Pros

Knicks have Porz and their pick and the ability to trade Melo... The lakers have Ingram/Clarkson and the ability to trade a randle

Cons

Lakers look like the 2nd worst team in all of basketball with no clear direction and could lose their pick to the sixers.... They have really bad contracts signed this past off season with DLO showing no signs of growth and Ingram looking incredibly raw.

Knicks have Phil jackson and Porz has regressed on defense... Knicks also have really bad contracts and again they have Phil Jackson.


I have said it all along the NBA would benefit the most if these 2 teams were relevant or at least good but neither can get out of their own way.... So again Who is the most desperate and which team really has it worse?

Sigh


KP is an elite rim protector

Now I'm pretty sure that almost everybody knows by now that KP is one of the best rim protectors in the league. And I know that KP's rim protection is not really the part of his defense that is getting the critique, but I still think the fact that he is an amazing rim protector should be mentioned when talking about KP's defense and especially when accusations like "KP's defense has been awful" are thrown around - if you talk about the defense without specifying anything more concrete then I pressume you are including his rim protection as that is a large part of the overall defensive effort.
From the players that have played at least 40 games and at least 25 minutes per game:
KP ranks 6th in blocks per game (1.9)
KP ranks 4th in rim protection (44.3% DFG)
KP is not as bad of a perimeter defender as he might look

Now KP being a bad perimeter defender has been one of the most popular claims this season. And while the eye test may suggest that he is leaving his opponents too open on the 3pt line, the statistics show that it has not been that costly at all. (just to note here - I agree that KP needs to improve his perimeter defense, but at the same time I also understand why he sometimes decides to stay back a bit - he is 7'3 - if he goes too close to his man on the 3pt line then it's almost a certainty that his opponent would just go right past him - KP is not (and probably never will be) agile enough to risk going too close ; also keep in mind that some (or lots) of what we see from the Knicks on the defense could be what coaches what to see)):
KP ranks 12th in contested 3pt shots (3.8)
Players are shooting below average (-1.3%) from 3pt line against KP
Never dare to doubt KP's hustle on the defense

I was actually shocked to find out the following stat which really illustrates how much KP is doing on the defensive end of the floor for the Knicks:
KP ranks 2nd in the league contested shots (15.0)
KP ranks 4th in the league in contested 2 pt shots (11.2)
Talk about hustle. And if these numbers alone don't impress you, let me put them in perspective by comparing these numbers to the rest of the Knicks:
the 2nd best Knick in contested shots is Noah with 8.0
15.0 for KP and 8.0 for the next best Knick - that is a massive gap right there and a clear indication of what kind of a work load KP has on the defense. (by the way KP also leads the Knicks in distance ran per game)
In conclusion I'll just add some more (less important) defensive statistics in the context of the Knicks team:
KP has the best defensive rating from the Knicks starting unit (108.3)
KP leads the Knicks in DFG% with 42.5%.
KP leads the team in DREB (5.4) and defensive win shares (0.025)

Idk how thats regressing but w/e

Back to the op post. Its hard to say. KP is the best of the two but the lakers have better young players that fit each others timeline. Knicks are stuck in this weird semi rebuild when we should be tanking.

Knicks should be desperate to sell to secure a top 5 pick. Gun to my head the lakers have a better future right now then us.

Giannis94
02-15-2017, 01:46 PM
I agree with MTM, however you unleased the floodgates for the NYK forum and their thirsty users.

mrblisterdundee
02-15-2017, 07:31 PM
or the Horncats acquiring plumdog millionaire.

I don't know if that was desperation or Charlotte's usual lack of logic. Of course, Charlotte's probably one of the top-two most desperate franchises ever (here's looking at you Brooklyn).

Vinylman
02-16-2017, 10:01 AM
I don't know if that was desperation or Charlotte's usual lack of logic. Of course, Charlotte's probably one of the top-two most desperate franchises ever (here's looking at you Brooklyn).

Lakers are hoping they continue their desperate ways as the rumor is LouWil to them for their first rounder :cool:

JasonJohnHorn
02-16-2017, 11:53 PM
The Knicks, and it's not even close.

The Lakers have a solid young core ad tradeable pieces, and cap space if I'm not mistaken.

No reason to panic when you are building into something.

The Knicks are supposed to be there already and they aren't.

Tg11
02-19-2017, 11:55 AM
Lakers and the Knicks are both bad teams who could be great again if they make the right moves but I don't think either team does anything during the Trade Deadline and they will wait until free agency

tp13baby
02-19-2017, 12:27 PM
The Knicks, and it's not even close.

The Lakers have a solid young core ad tradeable pieces, and cap space if I'm not mistaken.

No reason to panic when you are building into something.

The Knicks are supposed to be there already and they aren't.

I'm sorry but if anyone thought the Knicks with that roster was supposed to be good you are an idiot.

DarkKnight
02-19-2017, 12:45 PM
I'm sorry but if anyone thought the Knicks with that roster was supposed to be good you are an idiot.

:laugh:

JasonJohnHorn
02-19-2017, 08:59 PM
I'm sorry but if anyone thought the Knicks with that roster was supposed to be good you are an idiot.

I don't see how this adds anything to the conversation.

Melo is on the wrong side of 30. They just traded for a former MVP whom they hope would return to form, signed a former All-Defensive player, have a promising young rookie going into his second season, and a veteran 'franchise' player in Melo along with signing Jennings. And they brought in a new coach.

Pretty sure they expected to be in the playoffs... this team was looking to compete this year. Whether people thought they would be good is beside the point (I certainly was not in that camp).


This is like when BK went all is with the Pierce, Garnett, Wallace, D-Will, Lopez bit. They thought that by mortgaging their future they could win now. They didn't. The Knicks, and Jackson were clearly making moves with the intent to compete... perhaps not for a title, but for home court in the first round. It clearly has not worked out.

With that in mind... it seems that the Knicks would be more desperate. Getting rid of Jackson? Melo? Doing something to make this team win, because the Melo window is closing fast.

The Lakers, on the other hand, were going into this season doubting that they would compete, and just looking to make an improvement on last year and see if they couldn't get some of these young players to develop and show promise. That seems to be what they are doing, so no need to panic.

LA_Raiders
02-20-2017, 09:38 PM
NY, they are a complete mess. Cavs needs to upgrade if they want to make the finals.

shep33
02-20-2017, 10:45 PM
How are the Lakers desperate? They're rebuilding and have one of better young cores in the league
The be