PDA

View Full Version : Kevin Durant and the Warriors



More-Than-Most
02-14-2017, 03:55 AM
What Happens if they dont even make the finals let alone just lose in the finals? Its extremely doubtful and I think personally the championship is in the bag but is this the biggest let down of all time if they lose before the finals or even in the finals? Does a warriors loss cripple Kevin Durants legacy? I think yes to both in all honesty... I think its by far the biggest let down I can remember either way you slice it... I also think that as much of a smart decision as it was for Durant to go to the warriors and it was but it could also be the biggest double edged sword the NBA has ever seen... What he did was something we have not seen before and him losing could literally be a catastrophic event to his legacy... If he loses this year with all that talent around him I am not sure there would be a way for him to really make it into top 5-10 Status personally... Would it be an even bigger choke job than Lebron vs the Mavs? I think by far and away yes and we all seen what Lebron has had to do just to get over that hump and be a top 10 player ever... I am not sure Durant ever rebounds enough if they lose the championship this year... Thoughts?

nastynice
02-14-2017, 04:22 AM
What Happens if they dont even make the finals let alone just lose in the finals? Its extremely doubtful and I think personally the championship is in the bag but is this the biggest let down of all time if they lose before the finals or even in the finals? Does a warriors loss cripple Kevin Durants legacy? I think yes to both in all honesty... I think its by far the biggest let down I can remember either way you slice it... I also think that as much of a smart decision as it was for Durant to go to the warriors and it was but it could also be the biggest double edged sword the NBA has ever seen... What he did was something we have not seen before and him losing could literally be a catastrophic event to his legacy... If he loses this year with all that talent around him I am not sure there would be a way for him to really make it into top 5-10 Status personally... Would it be an even bigger choke job than Lebron vs the Mavs? I think by far and away yes and we all seen what Lebron has had to do just to get over that hump and be a top 10 player ever... I am not sure Durant ever rebounds enough if they lose the championship this year... Thoughts?

Its hard to say. You think of lebron down in miami, he only gets two chips out of four shots, which was very underwhelming (same double edged sword) considering what type of expectation not only we, but also the heat players themselves, put on them. Two years later he brings one to cleveland and all of a sudden it just propels his legacy.

It'd be a HUGE negative. But if I can see lebron bounce back from the miami experiment, then I wouldn't be shutting the book on it in regards to kd losing.

More-Than-Most
02-14-2017, 04:39 AM
Its hard to say. You think of lebron down in miami, he only gets two chips out of four shots, which was very underwhelming (same double edged sword) considering what type of expectation not only we, but also the heat players themselves, put on them. Two years later he brings one to cleveland and all of a sudden it just propels his legacy.

It'd be a HUGE negative. But if I can see lebron bounce back from the miami experiment, then I wouldn't be shutting the book on it in regards to kd losing.

I dont disagree but most of us and the basketball world knew that wade/lebron/bosh wouldnt be as good or fit as well... This warriors team is already coming off arguably being one of the best teams ever while adding a top 3 player in the world who fits their need perfectly... It was literally a perfect puzzle fit with Durant. Already a championship team adding arguably the best player in basketball while being a perfect fit and crippling one of their biggest competitors in the process in the same conference... That last part is a huge thing... Much like if lebron went to boston and failed miserably... He didnt jump to the best team by far like Durant did.

Saddletramp
02-14-2017, 04:49 AM
Durant's legacy has already taken a hit to the point he won't be able to recover as long as he's in that situation. He quit on one of the best teams in the league and joined (arguably) the best team in the league. He's an also-ran.


And to say that this team not getting the title this year is comparable to the Heat losing in their first year together is silly.

nastynice
02-14-2017, 05:08 AM
I dont disagree but most of us and the basketball world knew that wade/lebron/bosh wouldnt be as good or fit as well... This warriors team is already coming off arguably being one of the best teams ever while adding a top 3 player in the world who fits their need perfectly... It was literally a perfect puzzle fit with Durant. Already a championship team adding arguably the best player in basketball while being a perfect fit and crippling one of their biggest competitors in the process in the same conference... That last part is a huge thing... Much like if lebron went to boston and failed miserably... He didnt jump to the best team by far like Durant did.

No, this sounds like revisionist history to me. The big 3 in Miami was unprecedented, everybody thought they would run the league with their eyes closed. Also, good amount of people saying Warriors (probably not anymore) would take a step back because of the loss of rim protection.

Not to say ur points are wrong, but I do think there's another side to the coin

nastynice
02-14-2017, 05:09 AM
Durant's legacy has already taken a hit to the point he won't be able to recover as long as he's in that situation. He quit on one of the best teams in the league and joined (arguably) the best team in the league. He's an also-ran.


And to say that this team not getting the title this year is comparable to the Heat losing in their first year together is silly.

Doubt it. I see Kareem and Magic on all time lists all the time. If the Warriors build a dynasty, no ones gonna remember or care about that

Saddletramp
02-14-2017, 05:28 AM
Doubt it. I see Kareem and Magic on all time lists all the time. If the Warriors build a dynasty, no ones gonna remember or care about that

That was the old. Everything is under the microscope now. Magic was twatty and so was Kareem, but people don't view it that way because sports weren't the way they are now.

Saddletramp
02-14-2017, 05:43 AM
No, this sounds like revisionist history to me. The big 3 in Miami was unprecedented, everybody thought they would run the league with their eyes closed. Also, good amount of people saying Warriors (probably not anymore) would take a step back because of the loss of rim protection.

Not to say ur points are wrong, but I do think there's another side to the coin

Everybody? They had no bench. They had no big. They had no point guard. They had an unproven coach. It was three guys that had never been teammates (not counting international play) and randoms. The Warriors already won a title, set the win record and would have won another title if "Mr Unselfish" Draymond could keep his emotions (and limbs) to himself, Glass Boy Bogut not gone down to another injury, the Splash Bros turning into the Choke Bros, Iguodola turning into a 74 year old man (👴🏿 This emoji just popped up on my phone when I typed in 74 year 👴🏿. Didn't even change the color), or Lebron prove he's still the top basketball player in the world. In fact, any one of those things change and they win.

Too much had to go wrong for the Warriors to lose (and then it was just barely). If Lebron underperformed in any of those Finals with Miami, they lose (and even if he played like his normal self, there's no telling if that'd be enough). Plain and simple, really.



Pffft. "Everybody"

nastynice
02-14-2017, 05:48 AM
That was the old. Everything is under the microscope now. Magic was twatty and so was Kareem, but people don't view it that way because sports weren't the way they are now.

Could be. I think time kinda erases most of that stuff. I don't think that people who are currently too young to really follow this aspect of the nba are going to care about it in the future.

More-Than-Most
02-14-2017, 06:07 AM
Everybody? They had no bench. They had no big. They had no point guard. They had an unproven coach. It was three guys that had never been teammates (not counting international play) and randoms. The Warriors already won a title, set the win record and would have won another title if "Mr Unselfish" Draymond could keep his emotions (and limbs) to himself, Glass Boy Bogut not gone down to another injury, the Splash Bros turning into the Choke Bros, Iguodola turning into a 74 year old man (👴🏿 This emoji just popped up on my phone when I typed in 74 year 👴🏿. Didn't even change the color), or Lebron prove he's still the top basketball player in the world. In fact, any one of those things change and they win.

Too much had to go wrong for the Warriors to lose (and then it was just barely). If Lebron underperformed in any of those Finals with Miami, they lose (and even if he played like his normal self, there's no telling if that'd be enough). Plain and simple, really.



Pffft. "Everybody"

yup I remember hawk and others making all those arguments about how the big 3 wouldnt be as good as everyone thinks because of those holes.

lakerfan85
02-14-2017, 08:23 AM
If they don't win he might opt out and leave..

nastynice
02-14-2017, 08:53 AM
Everybody? They had no bench. They had no big. They had no point guard. They had an unproven coach. It was three guys that had never been teammates (not counting international play) and randoms. The Warriors already won a title, set the win record and would have won another title if "Mr Unselfish" Draymond could keep his emotions (and limbs) to himself, Glass Boy Bogut not gone down to another injury, the Splash Bros turning into the Choke Bros, Iguodola turning into a 74 year old man (👴🏿 This emoji just popped up on my phone when I typed in 74 year 👴🏿. Didn't even change the color), or Lebron prove he's still the top basketball player in the world. In fact, any one of those things change and they win.

Too much had to go wrong for the Warriors to lose (and then it was just barely). If Lebron underperformed in any of those Finals with Miami, they lose (and even if he played like his normal self, there's no telling if that'd be enough). Plain and simple, really.



Pffft. "Everybody"

Exactly, that's my point. They formed, they were crowned immediately, they lost. Lebron started arising as the cream, started dominating and being the clear leader on the team. If we see KD start dropping the hammer this post season...see lebron reference

nastynice
02-14-2017, 08:55 AM
yup I remember hawk and others making all those arguments about how the big 3 wouldnt be as good as everyone thinks because of those holes.

Sure, a very clear and obvious and lopsided minority of fans, sure I'll give you that

nastynice
02-14-2017, 08:55 AM
If they don't win he might opt out and leave..

True. Or Curry night leave.

Hell, or both

Bostonjorge
02-14-2017, 06:02 PM
With everything said. Warriors still have a much tougher road to the finals then Cleveland does. If Cleveland can't make the finals then that will be another Miami vs Dallas level choke job for me. Same for Warriors if they don't win.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2017, 06:05 PM
Doubt it. I see Kareem and Magic on all time lists all the time. If the Warriors build a dynasty, no ones gonna remember or care about that

huh? Magic was drafted by the Lakers, Jabbar basically owned the 70's and won a title and like 90 MVP's prior to even going to the Lakers. Not even close to the same as KD

Rivera
02-14-2017, 06:19 PM
what happens? MtM will have a field day and continue his Lebron GOAT posts

tredigs
02-14-2017, 06:21 PM
It's far too early for fans to rationally speculate on the future of Durant or his legacy. They still have hate-fever.

We'll see who comes up big in the playoffs (we already know they're all gelling for the most part and playing great regular season ball), who if anyone goes down with injury, who they play, etc etc. There's no blanket statement that can be made concerning the future.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2017, 06:26 PM
It's far too early for fans to rationally speculate on the future of Durant or his legacy. They still have hate-fever.

We'll see who comes up big in the playoffs (we already know they're all gelling for the most part and playing great regular season ball), who if anyone goes down with injury, who they play, etc etc. There's no blanket statement that can be made concerning the future.

With the Warriors, things need to happen in order for Durant to get much of a legacy bump for winning. Things like injury, or total underachievement from one or two of the 3 all NBA players they already had.

But, Durant also has past the next few years to build his resume. Who knows what will happen down the line.

GodsSon
02-14-2017, 06:31 PM
I still have the Spurs in the West.

Their size is going to prove invaluable in the WCF.

tredigs
02-14-2017, 06:38 PM
With the Warriors, things need to happen in order for Durant to get much of a legacy bump for winning. Things like injury, or total underachievement from one or two of the 3 all NBA players they already had.

But, Durant also has past the next few years to build his resume. Who knows what will happen down the line.

I mean that's depending on how you value legacies I guess. If you're all about ringz and getting them as The Man, then that will be many people's opinion. But if you're more about peak level play, then that has happened/is currently happening. So we have to see how he does. And along with peak if you want to include sustained prime and how dominant of a player one is for X amount of years, then that also remains to be seen (and he will very likely improve on others in that regard). I'm perfectly fine with those saying that a chip with GSW won't improve his legacy, but his sustained dominance in fact will, regardless of where he is. It'll also be a different story if he racks up a couple Finals MVP trophies, especially if they lose part of this squad in free agency.

He's still fairly young with a game that will age very well, so chalk me up for one as "we'll see what happens". Basically we agree here..

cmellofan15
02-14-2017, 07:12 PM
I think it's pretty unrealistic (barring any major injuries) that this warriors team isn't in the finals.

valade16
02-14-2017, 07:17 PM
Will this be the biggest let down? Considering last years Warriors loss may very well be the biggest let down yes it would be.

Would it ruin his legacy? In the short term yes and it would set him back but what if they lose and then go on to win 3-5 titles in a row?

If LeBron can overcome losing to the Mavs in the Finals his first year with the Heat KD can theoretically overcome a loss here.

LOb0
02-14-2017, 07:25 PM
No matter what happens "yeah but he joined a 73 win team that beat him the year before" will follow any rings he wins.

So its like a giant asterisk on him.

FlashBolt
02-14-2017, 07:26 PM
KD talking tough telling a Nuggets fan that the Warriors will sweep the Nuggets.. Lmao, dude turn into a tough boy now huh

kdspurman
02-14-2017, 07:29 PM
KD talking tough telling a Jazz fan that the Warriors will sweep the Jazz.. Lmao, dude turn into a tough boy now huh

I think that was a Nuggets fan after their win

Either way he's always yapped a lot but tried to pretend he was a nice guy when giving interviews and stuff

FlashBolt
02-14-2017, 07:33 PM
I think that was a Nuggets fan after their win

Either way he's always yapped a lot but tried to pretend he was a nice guy when giving interviews and stuff

Yeah, Nuggets fan. haha

nastynice
02-14-2017, 08:05 PM
huh? Magic was drafted by the Lakers, Jabbar basically owned the 70's and won a title and like 90 MVP's prior to even going to the Lakers. Not even close to the same as KD

Those lakers are very close to these warriors, having multiple superstars, but people don't take you down pegs for that if you create a dynasty. Winning changes everything. Ask lebron.

nastynice
02-14-2017, 08:05 PM
KD talking tough telling a Nuggets fan that the Warriors will sweep the Nuggets.. Lmao, dude turn into a tough boy now huh

lol

More-Than-Most
02-14-2017, 08:52 PM
With everything said. Warriors still have a much tougher road to the finals then Cleveland does. If Cleveland can't make the finals then that will be another Miami vs Dallas level choke job for me. Same for Warriors if they don't win.

0 logic in this... Per usual. The road they face is tougher but the cavs dont have the talent level the warriors have... Raptors/Celtics etc are the teams to stop the cavs and are closer to the cavs than the spurs/clippers... The raptors/celtics are closer to the cavs than any west team is to the warriors... The spurs will always have a chance because they are the spurs but after that its not close.

More-Than-Most
02-14-2017, 08:53 PM
what happens? MtM will have a field day and continue his Lebron GOAT posts

I dont think the cavs even make the finals... It has 0 to do with James... James will be James but they lack depth. Korver is a defensive liability and wont be much of a factor... Love and Irving will have to carry a major major load... I picked the raptors or a healthy heat team to upset the cavs last year... I think the celtics/raptors are in a much better position to do so this year.

FlashBolt
02-14-2017, 09:00 PM
0 logic in this... Per usual. The road they face is tougher but the cavs dont have the talent level the warriors have... Raptors/Celtics etc are the teams to stop the cavs and are closer to the cavs than the spurs/clippers... The raptors/celtics are closer to the cavs than any west team is to the warriors... The spurs will always have a chance because they are the spurs but after that its not close.

It's like they ignore context. If LeBron was on the Warriors, do you think BostonJorge would still complain about this crap he blames LeBron for? Let's face it: East is LeBron's throne because of LeBron. There have been better teams than LeBron's roster if you take out the best player. The constant has ALWAYS been LeBron.

nastynice
02-14-2017, 11:03 PM
I dont think the cavs even make the finals... It has 0 to do with James... James will be James but they lack depth. Korver is a defensive liability and wont be much of a factor... Love and Irving will have to carry a major major load... I picked the raptors or a healthy heat team to upset the cavs last year... I think the celtics/raptors are in a much better position to do so this year.

People been saying that every year for the past four years. And while some of the series did drag out to 6 games or whatever, was cleveland every truly not in control?

I'll believe it when i see it, til then, the east is lebron's throne. 6 years and counting, yup, that'll solidify it

Vee-Rex
02-15-2017, 12:52 AM
I dont think the cavs even make the finals... It has 0 to do with James... James will be James but they lack depth. Korver is a defensive liability and wont be much of a factor... Love and Irving will have to carry a major major load... I picked the raptors or a healthy heat team to upset the cavs last year... I think the celtics/raptors are in a much better position to do so this year.

The thing about it is:

When it's Cavs minus Love, we still dominate the East.

When it's Cavs minus Kyrie, we still dominate the East.

LeBron is just that good in the playoffs, man. I mean pretty much BY HIMSELF (no Love and an extremely injured Irving) he swept a 60-win Hawks team (while frauds, they still were pretty good) that many people thought was a matchup nightmare for the Cavs after beating the Cavs 3-1 in the regular season matchup.

And he's having a wonderful year this year - probably the best since his return to Cleveland. He found his jumpshot... I'm not saying the Cavs can't lose but you're sleeping on LeBron if you are actually picking another East team over them.

Vee-Rex
02-15-2017, 12:54 AM
True. Or Curry night leave.

Hell, or both

Eh, Curry ain't going anywhere.

ewing
02-15-2017, 04:03 AM
It's like they ignore context. If LeBron was on the Warriors, do you think BostonJorge would still complain about this crap he blames LeBron for? Let's face it: East is LeBron's throne because of LeBron. There have been better teams than LeBron's roster if you take out the best player. The constant has ALWAYS been LeBron.

really? if you take the best player off a basketball team they no longer are the best. You sir, should be an analysis

More-Than-Most
02-15-2017, 04:30 AM
The thing about it is:

When it's Cavs minus Love, we still dominate the East.

When it's Cavs minus Kyrie, we still dominate the East.

LeBron is just that good in the playoffs, man. I mean pretty much BY HIMSELF (no Love and an extremely injured Irving) he swept a 60-win Hawks team (while frauds, they still were pretty good) that many people thought was a matchup nightmare for the Cavs after beating the Cavs 3-1 in the regular season matchup.

And he's having a wonderful year this year - probably the best since his return to Cleveland. He found his jumpshot... I'm not saying the Cavs can't lose but you're sleeping on LeBron if you are actually picking another East team over them.

Its not as much sleeping on lebron is me assuming he will or has to fall off... What he does is insane... I just do not think they are the best team... They have by far the best player but if he isnt superman I doubt they can win and I thought last year would be the year it would catch up to them... I think this year both the raptors and celtics are really good and have as great of a chance as ever... I am not sold on Kyrie... If Kyrie can defend like he did last year then fine cavs win but he hasnt shown that defense this season that he had last year in the playoffs... If Love continues to be love I think the cavs are dangerous but their bench does nothing for me anymore and I dont think korver was the answer... I love korver but personally i think the cavs have plenty of 3 point shooters... They should have went after a more balanced player... Less offense with more defense to match up with the top teams... Can the cavs win? Yes... Are they the favorites in the east? Yes because Lebron... I hope they do win because I am a fan... I just think the raptors are a better all around team as well as the celtics.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2017, 10:56 AM
Those lakers are very close to these warriors, having multiple superstars, but people don't take you down pegs for that if you create a dynasty. Winning changes everything. Ask lebron.

again, different. First off, the Lakers didn't have 3, then 4, all NBA players in their peak. They also didn't have a 1st team all NBA guy jump over and join Magic, Kareem, and Worthy.

Winning cures plenty. But Durant needs things to happen to help his legacy. Things like injuries, or complete underachievement. otherwise, it doesn't do **** for his legacy.

king4day
02-15-2017, 12:08 PM
It would hurt his legacy because if they don't win, injury aside, it would likely be because of him (similar to OKC's choke job last season).

That said, the Warriors are winning this year and the NBA is hard to watch when all but maybe one team has hope.

FlashBolt
02-15-2017, 01:01 PM
really? if you take the best player off a basketball team they no longer are the best. You sir, should be an analysis

Maybe you can't read but that isn't what I said. I said there are better rosters out there than what LeBron is playing with if you took the best player of that respective team out.

Ex:

Washington. Take out Wall you still have Gortat, Porter, Beal.
Thomas. Take out Thomas you still have Bradley, Crowder, Horford.
Raptors. Take out Lowry you still have DeRozan, Valanciunas.

Golden State have a better team.
Spurs have a better team.
Utah has a better team.
Memphis has a better team.
Clippers have a better team.

I don't know why people seem to think Irving/Love were somehow winning big before LeBron got there. They made a total of zero playoff appearances. What's the Cavs record when he sits? 4-18?

nastynice
02-15-2017, 02:51 PM
again, different. First off, the Lakers didn't have 3, then 4, all NBA players in their peak. They also didn't have a 1st team all NBA guy jump over and join Magic, Kareem, and Worthy.

Winning cures plenty. But Durant needs things to happen to help his legacy. Things like injuries, or complete underachievement. otherwise, it doesn't do **** for his legacy.

That's not what I mean. If people want to whine about something, yes they're diff, but I mean in the sense of nba history and nba greatness, they're very similar in the sense that they are very stacked with ridiculous talent, yet that talent is still worthy of carving out some sort of name for themself. I can very much see steph and KD ending up as tier 2 all time greats, like magic. I doubt either is capable of ending up tier 1 (Jordan, shaq, Hakeem, lebron) and them playing on weak rosters really wouldn't change that

Hawkeye15
02-15-2017, 03:13 PM
That's not what I mean. If people want to whine about something, yes they're diff, but I mean in the sense of nba history and nba greatness, they're very similar in the sense that they are very stacked with ridiculous talent, yet that talent is still worthy of carving out some sort of name for themself. I can very much see steph and KD ending up as tier 2 all time greats, like magic. I doubt either is capable of ending up tier 1 (Jordan, shaq, Hakeem, lebron) and them playing on weak rosters really wouldn't change that

Time does distort how we view things. I am sure KD's legacy will be greater later on, when people either forget, or just don't care, that he hopped ship to the Warriors. Some will hold onto it forever, but yeah, he will be viewed more favorably down the line.

Chronz
02-15-2017, 03:15 PM
No, this sounds like revisionist history to me. The big 3 in Miami was unprecedented, everybody thought they would run the league with their eyes closed. Also, good amount of people saying Warriors (probably not anymore) would take a step back because of the loss of rim protection.

Not to say ur points are wrong, but I do think there's another side to the coin

Even if I agreed with your point, the level to which kd raised the bar coupled with our knowledge from that union, MTMs point would still ring true

ewing
02-15-2017, 03:25 PM
Time does distort how we view things. I am sure KD's legacy will be greater later on, when people either forget, or just don't care, that he hopped ship to the Warriors. Some will hold onto it forever, but yeah, he will be viewed more favorably down the line.


Winning cures everything. You used to be one of a few sucking Bron's dick when he first jumped ship and made a super team :)

Hawkeye15
02-15-2017, 03:33 PM
Winning cures everything. You used to be one of a few sucking Bron's dick when he first jumped ship and made a super team :)

I actually was indifferent to LeBron his first 4-5 years. I didn't even care. Then he was getting so much hate, I couldn't really figure out why. Mo Williams was his 2nd best player. Mo.Williams....

he left, after giving Cleveland 7 years to figure it out. They didn't. So he went an led a different team to 2 titles. As the best player on the planet. After he won his first title, I went back to not caring. However, I will still inject my opinion on him. I tend to enjoy watching top 5 players of all time in their primes, since I like basketball, and I like watching great players play.

Winning cures a lot. But Durant winning a title, if GS remains healthy, really doesn't do **** for me. He literally pulled the biggest sally move a superstar could. Join a record setting team with a title, the 2 time current MVP, 3 all NBA players in their peaks, blah, blah, blah. He could literally sit the year out, and his team would win 65+ games.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2017, 03:35 PM
I love the term "super team". How many all NBA teams did Bosh make during their reign? Wade? Look at the rest of the roster. By all means, they had plenty of talent with those 3, but they weren't even remotely as stacked as a bunch of other teams over the years I could name.

FlashBolt
02-15-2017, 09:25 PM
I love the term "super team". How many all NBA teams did Bosh make during their reign? Wade? Look at the rest of the roster. By all means, they had plenty of talent with those 3, but they weren't even remotely as stacked as a bunch of other teams over the years I could name.

I wonder how PSD would feel if after 2015 Finals, LeBron signs with the Warriors. You think people would still hold the same reaction?

BKLYNpigeon
02-15-2017, 10:20 PM
KD will resign with the Warriors. He's not going to be like Dwight Howard and jump teams every year.

Nobody cares where or why you left after a few years. Lebron leaving Cleveland and Ray Allen Leaving to Miami seemed so long ago. You guys get too worked up about Legacy.

KD is a Hall of Famer if he retired today.

FlashBolt
02-15-2017, 10:31 PM
KD will resign with the Warriors. He's not going to be like Dwight Howard and jump teams every year.

Nobody cares where or why you left after a few years. Lebron leaving Cleveland and Ray Allen Leaving to Miami seemed so long ago. You guys get too worked up about Legacy.

KD is a Hall of Famer if he retired today.

so is chris bosh... we're talking top ten territory.

Bostonjorge
02-16-2017, 01:41 AM
I love the term "super team". How many all NBA teams did Bosh make during their reign? Wade? Look at the rest of the roster. By all means, they had plenty of talent with those 3, but they weren't even remotely as stacked as a bunch of other teams over the years I could name.
Bosh was the best big(C or PF)in the whole eastern conference. Wade was the best SG in the whole eastern confrence. Thats Super when the next best team had Hibbet on it.

Bostonjorge
02-16-2017, 01:47 AM
Maybe you can't read but that isn't what I said. I said there are better rosters out there than what LeBron is playing with if you took the best player of that respective team out.

Ex:

Washington. Take out Wall you still have Gortat, Porter, Beal.
Thomas. Take out Thomas you still have Bradley, Crowder, Horford.
Raptors. Take out Lowry you still have DeRozan, Valanciunas.

Golden State have a better team.
Spurs have a better team.
Utah has a better team.
Memphis has a better team.
Clippers have a better team.

I don't know why people seem to think Irving/Love were somehow winning big before LeBron got there. They made a total of zero playoff appearances. What's the Cavs record when he sits? 4-18?
You take Thomas off of Boston and they miss the playoffs. Boston without Thomas gets swept by Cleveland without James. Let's not pretend James only has 2 players. Thomson is always a major player come playoff time. JR is clutch. Fry, Kover and Jefferson all playing at a high level.

Don't know how you call Gortat a major piece. Every player I named on Cleveland out plays him.

FlashBolt
02-16-2017, 02:16 AM
You take Thomas off of Boston and they miss the playoffs. Boston without Thomas gets swept by Cleveland without James. Let's not pretend James only has 2 players. Thomson is always a major player come playoff time. JR is clutch. Fry, Kover and Jefferson all playing at a high level.

Don't know how you call Gortat a major piece. Every player I named on Cleveland out plays him.

Oh, like the 4-18 Cavs would make the playoffs? Cause that's their record without LeBron the past three seasons. Obviously they would be a bit better by replacing LeBron etc., but the fact is, Cleveland is only great because of LeBron. You take LeBron off that team and you're looking at just a good team.

LeBron, Horford, Crowder, Bradley... That's the team winning the East.
Gortat is a beast. You probably know nothing of his game but he's a tough player who is a double-double every night. He's the Wizards Tristan Thompson with better scoring.

The fact is, let's stop pretending that the Cavs are the best team because of LeBron's roster. LeBron makes every team better than any other respective player would and that's all that matters. I love how you guys get so frightened when it's LeBron having help but you guys like to talk trash about him leaving the good riddance Cavs seven years ago.

Scoots
02-16-2017, 12:32 PM
I wonder how PSD would feel if after 2015 Finals, LeBron signs with the Warriors. You think people would still hold the same reaction?

I imagine it would be much worse.

Scoots
02-16-2017, 12:34 PM
I love the term "super team". How many all NBA teams did Bosh make during their reign? Wade? Look at the rest of the roster. By all means, they had plenty of talent with those 3, but they weren't even remotely as stacked as a bunch of other teams over the years I could name.

The Bird Celtics were built with the draft and trades ... they were a superior team, but the modern "Super Team" thing is more about free agency.

ManRam
02-16-2017, 12:48 PM
No, this sounds like revisionist history to me. The big 3 in Miami was unprecedented, everybody thought they would run the league with their eyes closed. Also, good amount of people saying Warriors (probably not anymore) would take a step back because of the loss of rim protection.

Not to say ur points are wrong, but I do think there's another side to the coin

It took some time for that team to gel. It was a team created out of thin air. There was a lot of talk year one about the lack of depth, the lack of PG/C play and a lack of chemistry. They were starting scrubs like Joel Anthony, Carlos Arroyo, Mike Bibby, etc. for large chunks of the year and into the playoffs. That team was not an all-time team right off the bat. The Warriors already are.

It just isn't quite apples to apples here. It might be close, but they aren't the same. KD entered a very, very stable situation and something that was already historically great without him. Maybe there is some revisionism here, but I think the 2016 Warriors losing the Finals (73 wins, up 3-1, etc.) was more of a let down than the Cavs losing to the Mavs, so why wouldn't I think it would be even worse if the 2017 team doesn't win?

Sactown
02-16-2017, 01:13 PM
It took some time for that team to gel. It was a team created out of thin air. There was a lot of talk year one about the lack of depth, the lack of PG/C play and a lack of chemistry. They were starting scrubs like Joel Anthony, Carlos Arroyo, Mike Bibby, etc. for large chunks of the year and into the playoffs. That team was not an all-time team right off the bat. The Warriors already are.

It just isn't quite apples to apples here. It might be close, but they aren't the same. KD entered a very, very stable situation and something that was already historically great without him. Maybe there is some revisionism here, but I think the 2016 Warriors losing the Finals (73 wins, up 3-1, etc.) was more of a let down than the Cavs losing to the Mavs, so why wouldn't I think it would be even worse if the 2017 team doesn't win?
If the Warriors lose this season they should rename themselves the Bills

ewing
02-16-2017, 01:27 PM
It took some time for that team to gel. It was a team created out of thin air. There was a lot of talk year one about the lack of depth, the lack of PG/C play and a lack of chemistry. They were starting scrubs like Joel Anthony, Carlos Arroyo, Mike Bibby, etc. for large chunks of the year and into the playoffs. That team was not an all-time team right off the bat. The Warriors already are.

It just isn't quite apples to apples here. It might be close, but they aren't the same. KD entered a very, very stable situation and something that was already historically great without him. Maybe there is some revisionism here, but I think the 2016 Warriors losing the Finals (73 wins, up 3-1, etc.) was more of a let down than the Cavs losing to the Mavs, so why wouldn't I think it would be even worse if the 2017 team doesn't win?

I disagree, i think the Mavs upset was a way bigger upset. Everyone went gaga over 73 wins. That's nice and shows that the Warriors are championship caliber but really means nothing else. The Cavs were way more comparable in terms of talent to the Warriors then the Mavs were to the Heat.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2017, 02:45 PM
Bosh was the best big(C or PF)in the whole eastern conference. Wade was the best SG in the whole eastern confrence. Thats Super when the next best team had Hibbet on it.

I know you go through each and every day with pure spite for LeBron, but that is reaching dude. I do think Wade was excellent the first year they were together, then regressed yearly due to injuries. Hell he was an average player for a couple of playoff runs when his body went Lt Dan on him.

Bosh was never the best big btw, in any conference, at any time. Dude made one all NBA team his entire career. What did he do prior to joining Miami again? Get beat up 2 times in round 1, and not even make the playoffs the couple of years prior to Miami, that is what. You act like peak Dwight/Dirk joined the Heat haha

Hawkeye15
02-16-2017, 02:47 PM
The Bird Celtics were built with the draft and trades ... they were a superior team, but the modern "Super Team" thing is more about free agency.

I absolutely know how each team over history was built, I just find the term funny. A ridiculously top heavy team shouldn't even be considered a "super team" by definition to begin with. We could easily come up with plenty of teams over time that had more talent than the 2010-15 Heat.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2017, 02:49 PM
I disagree, i think the Mavs upset was a way bigger upset. Everyone went gaga over 73 wins. That's nice and shows that the Warriors are championship caliber but really means nothing else. The Cavs were way more comparable in terms of talent to the Warriors then the Mavs were to the Heat.

I would have to think about whether I agree with that or not, but we do know, a few of the Mavs played WAY over their regular heads late in the 2011 playoffs. I mean, Jason Terry was ridiculous for instance.

But yeah, LeBron, for me, killed his shot at ever catching MJ straight up because of that series.

Chronz
02-16-2017, 03:01 PM
I disagree, i think the Mavs upset was a way bigger upset. Everyone went gaga over 73 wins. That's nice and shows that the Warriors are championship caliber but really means nothing else. The Cavs were way more comparable in terms of talent to the Warriors then the Mavs were to the Heat.

What makes you think that?

Why do records and projections mean nothing? How do you define/measure "talent".

Being of championship caliber is selling them short IMO, they are a HISTORIC core, its not like they were the 90's Knicks here. Most years that team wins a title, most championship cores simply remain untapped potential.

What of the shallow depth and lack of an identity from the Heat?

All that said, its good you agree that the Dubs losing this year would be the greatest of these comps in terms of a let down, you're talking about a team that broke projection systems and vegas lines.



The only question I have, is it more of an upset if the sub.500 Rockets dethrone the defending champion Lakers with Magic/KAJ, or when Seattle lost in R.1 for 2 years straight after winning a **** ton of games in the RS.

Whats the litmus test?

nastynice
02-16-2017, 06:29 PM
It took some time for that team to gel. It was a team created out of thin air. There was a lot of talk year one about the lack of depth, the lack of PG/C play and a lack of chemistry. They were starting scrubs like Joel Anthony, Carlos Arroyo, Mike Bibby, etc. for large chunks of the year and into the playoffs. That team was not an all-time team right off the bat. The Warriors already are.

It just isn't quite apples to apples here. It might be close, but they aren't the same. KD entered a very, very stable situation and something that was already historically great without him. Maybe there is some revisionism here, but I think the 2016 Warriors losing the Finals (73 wins, up 3-1, etc.) was more of a let down than the Cavs losing to the Mavs, so why wouldn't I think it would be even worse if the 2017 team doesn't win?

Well, I think this Warriors team just looks so much better than that heat team, that's it's easy to be like ok, obviously we expect more from them.

But at the point of he big 3 signing, vs the point of the KD signing/bigs dropping, really these teams were talked about in the same way, and tbh, I think more was expected of Miami. There almost nothing negative to say when those three combined, they had that beach party for a reason. Tbh, I think more criticism came to this dubs squad in the form of no rim protection or depth.

Chronz
02-16-2017, 08:14 PM
Tbh, I think more criticism came to this dubs squad in the form of no rim protection or depth.
Which is kind of funny considering their rim protection ranks among the elite and so does their bench (yes I know its a result of staggering the stars but thats the point of amassing so much talent, your bench lineups consists of legit go to guys). Whereas Miami staggered stars to some degree but lacked the depth/bigs/pgs etc...

ewing
02-16-2017, 08:59 PM
What makes you think that?

Why do records and projections mean nothing? How do you define/measure "talent".

Being of championship caliber is selling them short IMO, they are a HISTORIC core, its not like they were the 90's Knicks here. Most years that team wins a title, most championship cores simply remain untapped potential.

What of the shallow depth and lack of an identity from the Heat?

All that said, its good you agree that the Dubs losing this year would be the greatest of these comps in terms of a let down, you're talking about a team that broke projection systems and vegas lines.



The only question I have, is it more of an upset if the sub.500 Rockets dethrone the defending champion Lakers with Magic/KAJ, or when Seattle lost in R.1 for 2 years straight after winning a **** ton of games in the RS.

Whats the litmus test?

My huge BBall IQ. Remember last year when I told you if LeBron is aggressive offensively the Cavs have very good shot to beat the Warriors. I remember after he turned up the aggression on that end you correctly stated that not only is he no longer passing on wide open Js he is no longer driving just to pass. My eyes and huge BBIQ is told me and they were right. The metrics were wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tg11
02-18-2017, 08:46 PM
I sure pray to God that the Warriors do not make it to the finals...there would be a God

FlashBolt
02-18-2017, 08:49 PM
My huge BBall IQ. Remember last year when I told you if LeBron is aggressive offensively the Cavs have very good shot to beat the Warriors. I remember after he turned up the aggression on that end you correctly stated that not only is he no longer passing on wide open Js he is no longer driving just to pass. My eyes and huge BBIQ is told me and they were right. The metrics were wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There's a difference between having to score vs getting others involved. Cavs just had Kyrie+LeBron playing well offensively. Love was terrible and J.R. is too streaky. They needed LeBron to score and he did. If the others were playing well, we would be seeing more passing from LeBron. That's a testament to LeBron's BBIQ in realizing which type of LeBron is needed.

Tg11
02-18-2017, 09:05 PM
Because no one wants to see the Warriors in the final again I know I don't

ewing
02-18-2017, 10:15 PM
There's a difference between having to score vs getting others involved. Cavs just had Kyrie+LeBron playing well offensively. Love was terrible and J.R. is too streaky. They needed LeBron to score and he did. If the others were playing well, we would be seeing more passing from LeBron. That's a testament to LeBron's BBIQ in realizing which type of LeBron is needed.

whose do you think is bigger mine or LeBron's?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nastynice
02-21-2017, 12:23 AM
Because no one wants to see the Warriors in the final again I know I don't

c'mon man, be real. Deep down inside, DEEP down inside, you know you do ;)

More-Than-Most
02-21-2017, 12:53 AM
I disagree, i think the Mavs upset was a way bigger upset. Everyone went gaga over 73 wins. That's nice and shows that the Warriors are championship caliber but really means nothing else. The Cavs were way more comparable in terms of talent to the Warriors then the Mavs were to the Heat.

Sure if we disregaurd the miracle of events that happened... Curry wasnt healthy and choked... Kyrie and Lebron played like Gods on both sides of the ball which wont happen again... Bogut was done and Green got suspended and so on down the list... It was the perfect storm... If that warriors team plays that cavs team the warriors win 9 times out of 10. Hot players on good teams beat better teams before... It happens.

Also that Mavs team that everyone ***** on lebron for losing to... Swept the lakers with Kobe/Bynum/Gasol/MWP etc etc and a thunder team with Durant and westy and harden and Ibaka... Durant and westy at the time were still 2 of the better basketball players lol...

The mavs didnt just beat the heat.

Blitzbolt
02-21-2017, 01:05 PM
If they lose the media and fans will come up with an excuse like Green miss game 6 or x player was injured or the refs help lebron excuse .ect...

Scoots
02-21-2017, 01:38 PM
If they lose the media and fans will come up with an excuse like Green miss game 6 or x player was injured or the refs help lebron excuse .ect...

That happens with every team that loses. The Warriors title was won only because they had an easy path to the finals and the Cavs were injured.

Hawkeye15
02-21-2017, 02:07 PM
If they lose the media and fans will come up with an excuse like Green miss game 6 or x player was injured or the refs help lebron excuse .ect...

I mean, the championship team is generally the team that had the most going for them at the time. Healthiest, hottest, easiest path, blah, blah, blah.

It's hard to win a championship. That is why having the hardest path, or dealing with injuries, usually means, dah dah dah...........................you don't win it

Vee-Rex
02-21-2017, 03:59 PM
Sure if we disregaurd the miracle of events that happened... Curry wasnt healthy and choked... Kyrie and Lebron played like Gods on both sides of the ball which wont happen again... Bogut was done and Green got suspended and so on down the list... It was the perfect storm... If that warriors team plays that cavs team the warriors win 9 times out of 10. Hot players on good teams beat better teams before... It happens.

Also that Mavs team that everyone ***** on lebron for losing to... Swept the lakers with Kobe/Bynum/Gasol/MWP etc etc and a thunder team with Durant and westy and harden and Ibaka... Durant and westy at the time were still 2 of the better basketball players lol...

The mavs didnt just beat the heat.

You state that as if it's fact, when statistics show that the Cavs were outplaying the Warriors from games 3-7. They made huge adjustments following game 2 and had superior stats in every game after (including game 4 when it took a historic shooting game for the Warriors to win).

ewing
02-21-2017, 04:05 PM
Sure if we disregaurd the miracle of events that happened... Curry wasnt healthy and choked... Kyrie and Lebron played like Gods on both sides of the ball which wont happen again... Bogut was done and Green got suspended and so on down the list... It was the perfect storm... If that warriors team plays that cavs team the warriors win 9 times out of 10. Hot players on good teams beat better teams before... It happens.

Also that Mavs team that everyone ***** on lebron for losing to... Swept the lakers with Kobe/Bynum/Gasol/MWP etc etc and a thunder team with Durant and westy and harden and Ibaka... Durant and westy at the time were still 2 of the better basketball players lol...

The mavs didnt just beat the heat.

Or you just overrated the Warriors last year and refuse to readjust even after seeing them ekk through the WCF and then lose in the finals


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vee-Rex
02-21-2017, 04:27 PM
Or you just overrated the Warriors last year and refuse to readjust even after seeing them ekk through the WCF and then lose in the finals


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The response you'll get is that Stephen Curry was injured, despite averaging 34/9/7 in two games against Portland and 28/6/6 in the WCF against the Thunder.

He probably wasn't 100%, but he was certainly healthy enough to play much better than what he delivered in the finals.

Saddletramp
02-21-2017, 05:22 PM
You state that as if it's fact, when statistics show that the Cavs were outplaying the Warriors from games 3-7. They made huge adjustments following game 2 and had superior stats in every game after (including game 4 when it took a historic shooting game for the Warriors to win).

There's a lot of guesses being said lately that are being chalked up to being "facts". Some dope in one of these threads lately said if Draymond wasn't suspended, it is a fact that the Warriors would have won. I don't think he knows what a fact is.

valade16
02-21-2017, 05:31 PM
Or you just overrated the Warriors last year and refuse to readjust even after seeing them ekk through the WCF and then lose in the finals

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doesn't this logic work both ways?

If we overrated the Warriors perhaps we overrated the Heat vs the Mavericks. Or maybe we underrated the Cavs last year and the Mavericks that year.

Or maybe they were just bad matchups or great gameplans.

ewing
02-21-2017, 06:20 PM
Doesn't this logic work both ways?

If we overrated the Warriors perhaps we overrated the Heat vs the Mavericks. Or maybe we underrated the Cavs last year and the Mavericks that year.

Or maybe they were just bad matchups or great gameplans.

All those are possible. Based on how homerific this board was with regard to the Warriors last year I'm going to stick with my original assessment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hawkeye15
02-21-2017, 06:37 PM
All those are possible. Based on how homerific this board was with regard to the Warriors last year I'm going to stick with my original assessment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

well, it got slightly annoying when the, "If LeBron loses this year, how bad is his legacy?", when a 73 win team fresh off a title, and 2 time MVP in his peak, with 2 other all NBA players in their peaks, was waiting for them. Let alone another historically great team in the Spurs out west.

If you expected the Cavs to win, you were in the extreme minority, and I hope you bet the house. Fact is, the Cavs beat a superior team, due to various factors.

LOb0
02-21-2017, 06:47 PM
well, it got slightly annoying when the, "If LeBron loses this year, how bad is his legacy?", when a 73 win team fresh off a title, and 2 time MVP in his peak, with 2 other all NBA players in their peaks, was waiting for them. Let alone another historically great team in the Spurs out west.

If you expected the Cavs to win, you were in the extreme minority, and I hope you bet the house. Fact is, the Cavs beat a superior team, due to various factors.

Ehh. I picked the Cavs in 7 but I wasn't confident. The non-aggressive ******** way he played those first 4 games would have hurt his legacy had he went out like that.

Losing to better teams is fine, but it depends how you play. Which is why he should get blame for the 2014 finals. Spurs are on a run needing the bleeding to be stopped and Bron is casually passing the ball like the score is 10-10 in the first quarter.

FlashBolt
02-21-2017, 07:15 PM
Ehh. I picked the Cavs in 7 but I wasn't confident. The non-aggressive ******** way he played those first 4 games would have hurt his legacy had he went out like that.

Losing to better teams is fine, but it depends how you play. Which is why he should get blame for the 2014 finals. Spurs are on a run needing the bleeding to be stopped and Bron is casually passing the ball like the score is 10-10 in the first quarter.

Not sure what game you're watching but LeBron tried to get others involved because LeBron can't outscore the Warriors alone. That's why Kyrie was so vital to the Cavs. Provided LeBron with a few plays here and there off offensively and let him take a breather. He tried to get his teammates open for the shots. Didn't work; he changed his game and Kyrie still managed to keep his offensive power coming. That's what allowed them to win.

LOb0
02-21-2017, 07:27 PM
Not sure what game you're watching but LeBron tried to get others involved because LeBron can't outscore the Warriors alone. That's why Kyrie was so vital to the Cavs. Provided LeBron with a few plays here and there off offensively and let him take a breather. He tried to get his teammates open for the shots. Didn't work; he changed his game and Kyrie still managed to keep his offensive power coming. That's what allowed them to win.

Magic Johnson was on TV after those games telling Bron "Stop passing the ball and score". Yes Magic was telling him to stop passing. The thing that hurt LeBron more than anything in his career is going into passive mode. They needed scorer LeBron. Soon as that was turned on? Playing field leveled.

People were pissed at how Bron played those first 4 games. Not sure how you missed it.

ewing
02-21-2017, 07:33 PM
well, it got slightly annoying when the, "If LeBron loses this year, how bad is his legacy?", when a 73 win team fresh off a title, and 2 time MVP in his peak, with 2 other all NBA players in their peaks, was waiting for them. Let alone another historically great team in the Spurs out west.

If you expected the Cavs to win, you were in the extreme minority, and I hope you bet the house. Fact is, the Cavs beat a superior team, due to various factors.

The Cavs beat a team they were pretty evenly matched with. I didn't pick them I said they had a real shot and all you LeBron dick riders jumped on me for it. If he played well and they lost like he did the year before I would have said so just like me and most others did at the time. The victim stuff with Bron fans is redic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vee-Rex
02-21-2017, 07:45 PM
well, it got slightly annoying when the, "If LeBron loses this year, how bad is his legacy?", when a 73 win team fresh off a title, and 2 time MVP in his peak, with 2 other all NBA players in their peaks, was waiting for them. Let alone another historically great team in the Spurs out west.

If you expected the Cavs to win, you were in the extreme minority, and I hope you bet the house. Fact is, the Cavs beat a superior team, due to various factors.

I'm cool with people calling the 2015-16 Warriors superior (IMO the Cavs had a more playoff friendly team), but I think the playoffs showed that their superiority was nowhere near the level that everyone thought it was. 1000 is superior/higher than 999, but not by much.

I remember the discussions going into the playoffs after they hit 73 wins. It was very much like how the discussions are right now - Warriors being exalted, praised, worshiped, crowned, deified, etc... and the playoffs (WCF and Finals - vs the only two healthy contenders those Warriors have ever faced) revealed that ISO-scoring is invaluable when defenses clamp down like vice-grips. That 'superiority' hasn't looked as conclusive in 2 straight playoffs, so even with the almighty Durant added to the roster, I'd hesitate to crown them until they face a contender in the playoffs.

I thought the Cavs would win and I thought they were the superior team, but games 1 and 2 showed just how well they matched up with us. The Warriors were better, but I maintain our ceiling was higher (when we were locked in/learned how to play them on defense and LeBron was in GOAT mode). We made huge adjustments after game 2 and the rest is history. A couple of injuries and a suspension just happened along the way, IMO.

valade16
02-21-2017, 07:57 PM
I remember last year every week there was a "Warriors are statistically on pace to be the greatest team in history at X" thread.

The Warriors were pretty heavy favorites to win the title last year.

ewing
02-21-2017, 08:39 PM
I remember last year every week there was a "Warriors are statistically on pace to be the greatest team in history at X" thread.

The Warriors were pretty heavy favorites to win the title last year.

Yeah, by homers on PSD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ewing
02-21-2017, 08:49 PM
I'm cool with people calling the 2015-16 Warriors superior (IMO the Cavs had a more playoff friendly team), but I think the playoffs showed that their superiority was nowhere near the level that everyone thought it was. 1000 is superior/higher than 999, but not by much.

I remember the discussions going into the playoffs after they hit 73 wins. It was very much like how the discussions are right now - Warriors being exalted, praised, worshiped, crowned, deified, etc... and the playoffs (WCF and Finals - vs the only two healthy contenders those Warriors have ever faced) revealed that ISO-scoring is invaluable when defenses clamp down like vice-grips. That 'superiority' hasn't looked as conclusive in 2 straight playoffs, so even with the almighty Durant added to the roster, I'd hesitate to crown them until they face a contender in the playoffs.

I thought the Cavs would win and I thought they were the superior team, but games 1 and 2 showed just how well they matched up with us. The Warriors were better, but I maintain our ceiling was higher (when we were locked in/learned how to play them on defense and LeBron was in GOAT mode). We made huge adjustments after game 2 and the rest is history. A couple of injuries and a suspension just happened along the way, IMO.

I agree but I don't sneeze at adding an MVP/4 time scoring champ in his prime. They were already damn good. If the Warriors don't win this time it is a big time let down. I also want to say you are right about LeBron going into goat mode before one of his fan boys says I am trying to discredit him. He is a top 10 player of all time. That's what he supposed to look to do and he did a damn good job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tredigs
02-21-2017, 08:59 PM
Yeah, by homers on PSD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Huh? They were heavy Vegas favorites as well. And we all saw what it took for that not to be a 5 game series.

ewing
02-21-2017, 09:20 PM
Huh? They were heavy Vegas favorites as well. And we all saw what it took for that not to be a 5 game series.

exhibit A. What was the line anyway? I remember mentioning that the Cavs were preseason favs and getting crucified for it. Also what it took was the Cavs best players playing like who they are.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tredigs
02-22-2017, 01:16 AM
exhibit A. What was the line anyway? I remember mentioning that the Cavs were preseason favs and getting crucified for it. Also what it took was the Cavs best players playing like who they are.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hell of a lot more went into it than just the Cavs playing great (which they did). I don't remember the exact line, but it was in the 3 or 4:1 range. It's definitely revisionist history to think PSD was some outlier in thinking the Warriors were clear favorites. Granted, in retrospect we know they probably should not have been such heavy favorites. At no point in the playoffs (or 2nd half of the season really) did they look like their peak self (which occurred sometime in January), and that OKC series took a serious toll on them. We don't need to rehash any of this though. Cleveland did what they had to and came away with the W 7 games and 47.5 minutes later.

More-Than-Most
02-22-2017, 02:04 AM
Hell of a lot more went into it than just the Cavs playing great (which they did). I don't remember the exact line, but it was in the 3 or 4:1 range. It's definitely revisionist history to think PSD was some outlier in thinking the Warriors were clear favorites. Granted, in retrospect we know they probably should not have been such heavy favorites. At no point in the playoffs (or 2nd half of the season really) did they look like their peak self (which occurred sometime in January), and that OKC series took a serious toll on them. We don't need to rehash any of this though. Cleveland did what they had to and came away with the W 7 games and 47.5 minutes later.

I dont mind this logic what I mind in this thread is the stupid notion that the team that wins the title is the best or most talented team... Basically saying all other factors that got to said finish is pretty much irrelevant... Maybe some underrated the cavs and overrated the warriors but its pretty easy logic to see whom was by far the superior and more talented team... Just because I personally haven't seen the earth from space doesn't mean we dont have enough information to logically see/say and admit that the earth is in fact round :shrug:


Again there is no facts to back up if the cavs lose if Bogut is healthy and curry is fully healthy and green isnt suspended and or Lebron/Curry dont put up 2 of the most historic performances together that history has seen which might not seem that far fetched from Lebron but was/is and will continue to be for Kyrie whom yet again has reverted defensively which was expected because of how sick he was... Again maybe the seas part still and the cavs manage to win and still be the first team ever to come back 3-1 all while beating a 73 win team with star after star after star.... Or maybe logic can in fact tell the accurate story without the idiocy of reverting to the rebuttal of lacking facts because we dont know what would have actually happened...

Um Yes yes we do... Without the perfect storm of **** the warriors win period and I ****ing love lebron and hate the warriors but holy **** people.

ewing
02-22-2017, 08:00 AM
I dont mind this logic what I mind in this thread is the stupid notion that the team that wins the title is the best or most talented team... Basically saying all other factors that got to said finish is pretty much irrelevant... Maybe some underrated the cavs and overrated the warriors but its pretty easy logic to see whom was by far the superior and more talented team... Just because I personally haven't seen the earth from space doesn't mean we dont have enough information to logically see/say and admit that the earth is in fact round :shrug:


Again there is no facts to back up if the cavs lose if Bogut is healthy and curry is fully healthy and green isnt suspended and or Lebron/Curry dont put up 2 of the most historic performances together that history has seen which might not seem that far fetched from Lebron but was/is and will continue to be for Kyrie whom yet again has reverted defensively which was expected because of how sick he was... Again maybe the seas part still and the cavs manage to win and still be the first team ever to come back 3-1 all while beating a 73 win team with star after star after star.... Or maybe logic can in fact tell the accurate story without the idiocy of reverting to the rebuttal of lacking facts because we dont know what would have actually happened...

Um Yes yes we do... Without the perfect storm of **** the warriors win period and I ****ing love lebron and hate the warriors but holy **** people.

Exhibit B

ewing
02-22-2017, 08:23 AM
Exhibit B



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ewing
02-22-2017, 08:25 AM
They nearly lost the in the WCFs too. Was that a freak thing as well or is it that they weren't the greatest team of all time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vee-Rex
02-22-2017, 09:53 AM
I dont mind this logic what I mind in this thread is the stupid notion that the team that wins the title is the best or most talented team... Basically saying all other factors that got to said finish is pretty much irrelevant... Maybe some underrated the cavs and overrated the warriors but its pretty easy logic to see whom was by far the superior and more talented team... Just because I personally haven't seen the earth from space doesn't mean we dont have enough information to logically see/say and admit that the earth is in fact round :shrug:


Again there is no facts to back up if the cavs lose if Bogut is healthy and curry is fully healthy and green isnt suspended and or Lebron/Curry dont put up 2 of the most historic performances together that history has seen which might not seem that far fetched from Lebron but was/is and will continue to be for Kyrie whom yet again has reverted defensively which was expected because of how sick he was... Again maybe the seas part still and the cavs manage to win and still be the first team ever to come back 3-1 all while beating a 73 win team with star after star after star.... Or maybe logic can in fact tell the accurate story without the idiocy of reverting to the rebuttal of lacking facts because we dont know what would have actually happened...

Um Yes yes we do... Without the perfect storm of **** the warriors win period and I ****ing love lebron and hate the warriors but holy **** people.

Eh, I remember feeling that game 1 was winnable for the Cavs. We were down by 6 going into the 4th. But it took incredible games by Livingston and Barbosa (a combined 31 points on 13/15 shooting) that propelled that game in favor of GS. If Kyrie and LeBron perform anywhere near their capabilities we also win. We were bricking open shots left and right.

Game 2 was a lost cause - we just got dominated.

If GS doesn't break a finals record for 3-point shooting in game 4 then they lose that game as well.

Anyone can go back and point out specific parts and point out outliers that have affected each game. GS has a strong bench, so it's reasonable that they may win one game off that bench. GS also has great 3-point shooting, so it's reasonable that they may win a game off incredible/cant-miss shooting.

The Cavs had two incredible scorers, so it's reasonable they won a game off that (game 5). Game 6 was over with before Iggy went out with back soreness/spasms, and game 7 Iggy was fully healthy. The only disputable game was game 5, but it's Green's fault he was at the limit and Bogut's illegal screens are something the Warriors players shouldn't have been used to.

Honestly, LeBron figured out the best way to protect the ball on his drives since GS/Iggy were swiping at it non-stop, and you saw later on in the series how much different he handled the ball.

We can go back and forth on this all day, but the Cavs won because they took it from GS. IMO, going into that series they were clearly not the better team, but they BECAME the better team. LeBron got in Curry's head and they went at Curry so relentlessly that he just dropped his own pants and bent over the table.

If you really, really feel some kinda way about it then at least it evens out since I highly doubt the 2014-15 Warriors would've beaten a fully healthy 2014-15 Cavs.

Scoots
02-22-2017, 10:06 AM
Why is this still a thing? The Cavs dominated, the Warriors blew it.

I'm looking forward to see what it looks like this year.

PayDaPiper
02-22-2017, 10:16 AM
Why are there so many Warrior haters lol

They were the worst franchise in all of sports for two decades and have been good now for like 4-5 seasons. Their true fan base deserves this

PayDaPiper
02-22-2017, 10:19 AM
Why is this still a thing? The Cavs dominated, the Warriors blew it.

I'm looking forward to see what it looks like this year.

It's still a thing because fans of other teams like to troll the best.

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 10:40 AM
The Cavs beat a team they were pretty evenly matched with. I didn't pick them I said they had a real shot and all you LeBron dick riders jumped on me for it. If he played well and they lost like he did the year before I would have said so just like me and most others did at the time. The victim stuff with Bron fans is redic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"victim"? A 73 win team off a title, and a Spurs team that put up 67 wins, seemed a nearly impossible task to beat for Cleveland. Once the playoffs were well into motion, the Spurs gone, Curry hurting, the Warriors being pushed by OKC, yes, it started to look more even.

But when the question was asked throughout the season, the Cavs were not regarded by most on the same level.

Besides, you keep complaining non ****ing stop about LeBron fans. his team won it all, against a superior team. At the end of the day, shouldn't that frustrate you more than picking and choosing which posters here annoy you?

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 10:43 AM
I'm cool with people calling the 2015-16 Warriors superior (IMO the Cavs had a more playoff friendly team), but I think the playoffs showed that their superiority was nowhere near the level that everyone thought it was. 1000 is superior/higher than 999, but not by much.

I remember the discussions going into the playoffs after they hit 73 wins. It was very much like how the discussions are right now - Warriors being exalted, praised, worshiped, crowned, deified, etc... and the playoffs (WCF and Finals - vs the only two healthy contenders those Warriors have ever faced) revealed that ISO-scoring is invaluable when defenses clamp down like vice-grips. That 'superiority' hasn't looked as conclusive in 2 straight playoffs, so even with the almighty Durant added to the roster, I'd hesitate to crown them until they face a contender in the playoffs.

I thought the Cavs would win and I thought they were the superior team, but games 1 and 2 showed just how well they matched up with us. The Warriors were better, but I maintain our ceiling was higher (when we were locked in/learned how to play them on defense and LeBron was in GOAT mode). We made huge adjustments after game 2 and the rest is history. A couple of injuries and a suspension just happened along the way, IMO.

LeBron basically showed us he is easily the best player on the planet until proven otherwise. No doubt the Warriors played way too cute, and it cost them. Their sheer talent overwhelmed an injured Cavs team the year prior.

I agree, this year, until GS proves it can adjust to being punched in the mouth, I don't consider them heavy favorites, despite the Durant signing. Adding the biggest vagina in the game doesn't propel your toughness.

ewing
02-22-2017, 10:47 AM
"victim"? A 73 win team off a title, and a Spurs team that put up 67 wins, seemed a nearly impossible task to beat for Cleveland. Once the playoffs were well into motion, the Spurs gone, Curry hurting, the Warriors being pushed by OKC, yes, it started to look more even.

But when the question was asked throughout the season, the Cavs were not regarded by most on the same level.

Besides, you keep complaining non ****ing stop about LeBron fans. his team won it all, against a superior team. At the end of the day, shouldn't that frustrate you more than picking and choosing which posters here annoy you?


NO Bron deserves his ring. That's not much of a conversation. the question was asked when the finals were set and I remember you telling me the Cavs had no chance. I remember posters telling me and another poster that we were saying the Cavs had a chance so LeBron would look worse if he lost. If someone says he isn't as good as you think they are a hater, if someone says he can lead his team in a series where they aren't clearly favored they are trying to set him up. Its like dating a women :bang: , you know

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 10:53 AM
They nearly lost the in the WCFs too. Was that a freak thing as well or is it that they weren't the greatest team of all time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yeah, they started to look much less all-wordly as the playoffs went on. It's almost like they were getting arrogant, and cute. Behind the back passes for no reason, jacking up 28 footers in a close game just cause, and going iso waaaaaaaaay too often.

Their sheer talent made most overlook it during the regular season, when they could pull that **** when they wanted. Even with Curry getting hurt, he was statistically sweet in the WCF's.

The Cavs basically exposed the fact that GS can't control the paint in a man's game, despite whatever rim protection numbers they spit out. While I still think they are favorites this year to win it all, they didn't address that weakness this offseason, they simply added another perimeter stud, which they already had.

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 10:54 AM
NO Bron deserves his ring. That's not much of a conversation. the question was asked when the finals were set and I remember you telling me the Cavs had no chance. I remember posters telling me and another poster that we were saying the Cavs had a chance so LeBron would look worse if he lost. If someone says he isn't as good as you think they are a hater, if someone he can lead his team in a series where they aren't clearly favored they are trying to set him up. Its like dating a women :bang: , you know

I honestly have to look back and see where I was. By the WCF's, it was clear the Warriors were not the 86' Celtics by any means. And my pure disgust for everything Irving seriously blinded me on how his offensive contributions can explode at times. Hell, he even portrayed a defender for gaps at a time in the finals..

ewing
02-22-2017, 10:56 AM
yeah, they started to look much less all-wordly as the playoffs went on. It's almost like they were getting arrogant, and cute. Behind the back passes for no reason, jacking up 28 footers in a close game just cause, and going iso waaaaaaaaay too often.

Their sheer talent made most overlook it during the regular season, when they could pull that **** when they wanted. Even with Curry getting hurt, he was statistically sweet in the WCF's.

The Cavs basically exposed the fact that GS can't control the paint in a man's game, despite whatever rim protection numbers they spit out. While I still think they are favorites this year to win it all, they didn't address that weakness this offseason, they simply added another perimeter stud, which they already had.

I agree but if you are 10 times as good as everyone else at something it can cover for a weakness. I think we are there.

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 10:58 AM
I agree but if you are 10 times as good as everyone else at something it can cover for a weakness. I think we are there.

I know, I fear you are right. If I have to watch shimmy shakes, relentless high fives, and choreographed dances after each made 3 in the finals, I am turning the tv off.

PayDaPiper
02-22-2017, 11:30 AM
yeah, they started to look much less all-wordly as the playoffs went on. It's almost like they were getting arrogant, and cute. Behind the back passes for no reason, jacking up 28 footers in a close game just cause, and going iso waaaaaaaaay too often.

Their sheer talent made most overlook it during the regular season, when they could pull that **** when they wanted. Even with Curry getting hurt, he was statistically sweet in the WCF's.

The Cavs basically exposed the fact that GS can't control the paint in a man's game, despite whatever rim protection numbers they spit out. While I still think they are favorites this year to win it all, they didn't address that weakness this offseason, they simply added another perimeter stud, which they already had.

They exposed the fact that the Warriors couldn't control the paint in a "man's game" after Bogut got injured in game 5 and missed the last 2 1/2 games, lets be real

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 11:58 AM
They exposed the fact that the Warriors couldn't control the paint in a "man's game" after Bogut got injured in game 5 and missed the last 2 1/2 games, lets be real

you're right, those 13 ineffective minutes a game he was playing were crucial....

The Warriors caved, got too cute, and made mental errors. Hell, in one of the biggest plays of the series, a perfect example. Curry gets isolated on Love 26 feet from the rim, all alone, and does the fancy-dancy dribbling, fadeaway 25 footer, instead of going by a feet in quick sand defender and creating an easy shot. Or his around the back for no reason pass to Thompson that sailed out of bounds?

While I give LeBron, and the Cavs all the credit in the world, the Warriors choked. Big time.

PayDaPiper
02-22-2017, 04:12 PM
you're right, those 13 ineffective minutes a game he was playing were crucial....

The Warriors caved, got too cute, and made mental errors. Hell, in one of the biggest plays of the series, a perfect example. Curry gets isolated on Love 26 feet from the rim, all alone, and does the fancy-dancy dribbling, fadeaway 25 footer, instead of going by a feet in quick sand defender and creating an easy shot. Or his around the back for no reason pass to Thompson that sailed out of bounds?

While I give LeBron, and the Cavs all the credit in the world, the Warriors choked. Big time.

Lol, the Warriors win because the Cavs were injured the year before. Yet Curry is clearly not a 100%, Draymond misses game 5 when the Warriors would have most likely closed out the Cavs, Andre injures his back in game 6 and Bogut, their only interior presence misses the last 2 1/2 games because of injury. It was the perfect storm and you think none of that had to do with them blowing a 3-1 lead?

Hawkeye15
02-22-2017, 04:15 PM
Lol, the Warriors win because the Cavs were injured the year before. Yet Curry is clearly not a 100%, Draymond misses game 5 when the Warriors would have most likely closed out the Cavs, Andre injures his back in game 6 and Bogut, their only interior presence misses the last 2 1/2 games because of injury. It was the perfect storm and you think none of that had to do with them blowing a 3-1 lead?

I think them choking had more to do with blowing a 3-1 lead.

Look, it's hard to win a ring. The team that is the healthiest, and has things fall into place, is the one that wins. That is how it works. You guys got your chip with no Love, and Irving gone for most the series. Does it count lesser? Nope. The Warriors were plenty healthy enough, Curry choked, the shooters weren't hitting, Dray lost his mind (that is the risk you take having his type), and you had some bumps and bruises. Life goes on.

ewing
02-22-2017, 09:30 PM
This paydapiper guy is more whiney then Hawk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tg11
02-23-2017, 12:20 PM
Durant if he loses in the finals or even in the Western Conference Finals with the Warriors then he essentially ruins his own legacy either way