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View Full Version : Draymond Green: Triple double with 4 points and 5 blocks?



JasonJohnHorn
02-11-2017, 08:38 AM
This is one of the most bizarre and impressive stat lines I've seen in a while.

Dude didn't even have enough points for a 5X5 game, and yet he not only got 5 or more in the hardest categories, he got a tripled double with rebounds, assists, and steals.


I don't even know what to say.

Clint Olbrock
02-11-2017, 09:55 AM
This is one of the most bizarre and impressive stat lines I've seen in a while.

Dude didn't even have enough points for a 5X5 game, and yet he not only got 5 or more in the hardest categories, he got a tripled double with rebounds, assists, and steals.


I don't even know what to say.

Should've got the quadruple-double.

BKLYNpigeon
02-11-2017, 12:44 PM
If Draymond scored 6 more points and got the Quadruple Double, this thread would have more then 2 replies. lol

Impressive stat line. Draymond just secured Defensive Player of the Year.

mrblisterdundee
02-11-2017, 01:23 PM
Very impressive. Not to be a stat chaser, but why couldn't Golden State go out of its way to get that guy more than six shots in 38 minutes?

sep11ie
02-11-2017, 02:05 PM
Note to all NBA players. If you do anything even semi cool GaysonJohnHorn will make a thread about you.

Giannis94
02-11-2017, 02:16 PM
Note to all NBA players. If you do anything even semi cool GaysonJohnHorn will make a thread about you.

Can he make one about Giannis' wingspan?!?!

JAZZNC
02-11-2017, 02:19 PM
Note to all NBA players. If you do anything even semi cool GaysonJohnHorn will make a thread about you.

This TBH is thread worthy. Pretty ridiculous stay line and very indicative of Green's diverse skill set. Very impressive game.

mike_noodles
02-11-2017, 02:24 PM
So what was the triple double?

THE MTL
02-11-2017, 03:04 PM
I don't like how the NBA made such a big deal about it. To me, he just missed a quadruple double. He couldn't get 3 shots up? Lol

Clint Olbrock
02-11-2017, 04:32 PM
So what was the triple double?
Steals, assists, rebounds.

nastynice
02-11-2017, 04:57 PM
Very impressive. Not to be a stat chaser, but why couldn't Golden State go out of its way to get that guy more than six shots in 38 minutes?

Its hard to get shots with kd, curry, and klay on the floor too. He has his role, he is a fundamental piece to why our team is the way it is, scoring is just nowhere near being a priority for him

*first ever triple double without points, lol (according to a youtube video)

WOwolfOL
02-11-2017, 05:05 PM
This is an absurd milestone and people are barely giving it respect. He doesn't need to provide much scoring to that team but still knows how to impact the game in a huge way. Crazy good game.

TrueFan420
02-11-2017, 06:42 PM
This is an absurd milestone and people are barely giving it respect. He doesn't need to provide much scoring to that team but still knows how to impact the game in a huge way. Crazy good game.
That's basically what he said too. We don't need Green to score. He just needs to hit an occasional 3 so teams have to respect his drive and dish. He's there to be elite defensively and rebound. If he can do that any scoring whether 4 points or 10 is more than enough.

PowerHouse
02-11-2017, 08:35 PM
Can he make one about Giannis' wingspan?!?!

No. And no he cant make one about Giannis' dick size either.

He said do something cool.

IKnowHoops
02-12-2017, 02:15 AM
Wow. Amazing stat line by Green. teammates should of made sure he got the ball enough to get 10 points. Thats a quadruple double. Green is just an 7.7/10 at just about everything when it comes to basketball. He's pretty good at everything.

LA_Raiders
02-12-2017, 02:28 AM
Amazing, maybe LeFlop (stat chaser) can learn about this.

nastynice
02-12-2017, 06:38 AM
That's basically what he said too. We don't need Green to score. He just needs to hit an occasional 3 so teams have to respect his drive and dish. He's there to be elite defensively and rebound. If he can do that any scoring whether 4 points or 10 is more than enough.

Exactly. He is actually a HUGE part of the offense, it's just that his part doesn't entail scoring. But his versatility allows us to spread the floor the way we do. Those ten assists are no fluke, believe me

tredigs
02-12-2017, 12:59 PM
Wow. Amazing stat line by Green. teammates should of made sure he got the ball enough to get 10 points. Thats a quadruple double. Green is just an 7.7/10 at just about everything when it comes to basketball. He's pretty good at everything.

He didn't seem to want it. Kept on playing within the offense even when they were finding him open at the top of the key. Pretty sure he didn't take a shot in the last ten minutes. He really only shoots when he's wide open or attacking the rim now.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-12-2017, 09:03 PM
Should've hogged the ball to get the points.

ewing
02-12-2017, 09:08 PM
Should've hogged the ball to get the points.

Totally


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TrueFan420
02-12-2017, 09:49 PM
Should've hogged the ball to get the points.

That's not what he's about tho... He's a win at all costs type of guy and in the teams current set up that doesn't involve him needing to score. And he's good with that which is all the more important.

nastynice
02-12-2017, 09:56 PM
That's not what he's about tho... He's a win at all costs type of guy and in the teams current set up that doesn't involve him needing to score. And he's good with that which is all the more important.

yea, after getting 73 wins and no ring, I'm pretty sure nobody on the warriors really cares about things like triple doubles or 5x5's

Raps18-19 Champ
02-13-2017, 12:50 AM
That's not what he's about tho... He's a win at all costs type of guy and in the teams current set up that doesn't involve him needing to score. And he's good with that which is all the more important.

He's the same guy that wanted to stay in a game one time despite it being a blowout so he can chase the triple double. If he had the chance at a quad double, he would have gone after it (it was becoming less likely as time was running out). You don't think he chased to get that triple double? It's like when Russell says he's a team first guy. We all know he's chasing that triple double. Draymond's the same.

nastynice
02-13-2017, 12:55 AM
He's the same guy that wanted to stay in a game one time despite it being a blowout so he can chase the triple double. If he had the chance at a quad double, he would have gone after it (it was becoming less likely as time was running out). You don't think he chased to get that triple double? It's like when Russell says he's a team first guy. We all know he's chasing that triple double. Draymond's the same.

I know. Damn stat padder!

Raps18-19 Champ
02-13-2017, 10:49 AM
I know. Damn stat padder!

I have no problem with him chasing a quad double. I wanted to see it and I wouldve done the same. But lets not pretend like hes such a "team first" guy when hes already admitted (and its fairly obvious) he chases stats.

tredigs
02-13-2017, 12:08 PM
He's the same guy that wanted to stay in a game one time despite it being a blowout so he can chase the triple double. If he had the chance at a quad double, he would have gone after it (it was becoming less likely as time was running out). You don't think he chased to get that triple double? It's like when Russell says he's a team first guy. We all know he's chasing that triple double. Draymond's the same.
You don't know what you're talking about here. I even know the triple-double game you're referencing and you're right that they put him back in to get it (I remember because it was off-color for him, and I think it was 1 or 2 assists he needed). That was a different season. At this point it's clear he could give 2 ***** about triple doubles. He gets right on the cusp all the time this year and there's no extra effort to get them (honestly I think Westbrook/Harden have devalued it as an achievement to a certain degree, not to say what they pull off is not impressive). He was in the game for 9 minutes of the last 10 minutes of the game. # of shots he took? Zero. # of opportunities he had to shoot if he was trying to get the quad dub? Ample. Just chose to find the better shooter every time.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-13-2017, 01:38 PM
You don't know what you're talking about here. I even know the triple-double game you're referencing and you're right that they put him back in to get it (I remember because it was off-color for him, and I think it was 1 or 2 assists he needed). That was a different season. At this point it's clear he could give 2 ***** about triple doubles. He gets right on the cusp all the time this year and there's no extra effort to get them (honestly I think Westbrook/Harden have devalued it as an achievement to a certain degree, not to say what they pull off is not impressive). He was in the game for 9 minutes of the last 10 minutes of the game. # of shots he took? Zero. # of opportunities he had to shoot if he was trying to get the quad dub? Ample. Just chose to find the better shooter every time.

When it was within reach, it was fairly obvious he was trying to get steals for more than his team benefitting from it.

Scoots
02-13-2017, 04:19 PM
When it was within reach, it was fairly obvious he was trying to get steals for more than his team benefitting from it.

He had 5 in the first quarter and 8 by half ... It's not like he was stat chasing down the stretch.

FlashBolt
02-13-2017, 04:28 PM
Outside of the steals, this isn't really that impressive. Assists should be easy to get with Klay/KD/Curry, rebounds isn't that difficult to do considering Dray hustles every play and with most teams going smallball against him, it's not like he's rebounding over DeAndre or Drummond. But yeah, I'm not sure how not scoring is more impressive than scoring. Outside of the steals, this isn't special. No other player has had the luxury of being on such a great team with a minimized role in terms of offensively. Closest guy I can think of is Rodman and we all know how great of a rebounder/defender he was.

nastynice
02-13-2017, 05:58 PM
I have no problem with him chasing a quad double. I wanted to see it and I wouldve done the same. But lets not pretend like hes such a "team first" guy when hes already admitted (and its fairly obvious) he chases stats.

haha, that's what I'm saying, the guy's a stat padder.

In this league, you got two types a people. People who don't mind doing the dirty work that doesn't show up in stat sheets. You know, things like being 6'7 and legitimately guarding the paint. Then there's people who only do what shows up on the stat sheet.

Green is clearly the latter.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-13-2017, 06:36 PM
He had 5 in the first quarter and 8 by half ... It's not like he was stat chasing down the stretch.

I thought it was obvious he tried harder to get the remaining steals as the game went on. Maybe the first handful came naturally but once he got to like 6 or 7, he was hunting steals harder than a ball hawk would.

Scoots
02-14-2017, 12:50 AM
I thought it was obvious he tried harder to get the remaining steals as the game went on. Maybe the first handful came naturally but once he got to like 6 or 7, he was hunting steals harder than a ball hawk would.

Nah. Watch the game. If anything he got more lax later in the game.

tredigs
02-14-2017, 02:25 PM
I thought it was obvious he tried harder to get the remaining steals as the game went on. Maybe the first handful came naturally but once he got to like 6 or 7, he was hunting steals harder than a ball hawk would.

If "stat-padding" means his already elite level of constant defensive urgency is turned up a notch, that's a good thing to pad. I don't think one of them came from jumping a passing lane (9 was an inlet pass to the post he broke up and 10 was another on-ball swipe). He was a +26 in a 15 point finish (next closest +18), and had just 3 fouls and a couple turnovers. It was an incredible game. Though resident salty OKC fan up there wasn't impressed by the 15 blocks/steals coupled with the double digit rebounds and assists from the PF/C in the grindhouse, rest assure, it was a game for the ages.

Sactown
02-14-2017, 05:20 PM
The steals is impressive, the assists and rebounds at the pace they play and the shooters he's surrounded with . Not so much

Hawkeye15
02-14-2017, 06:04 PM
Ricky Davis does not approve

tredigs
02-14-2017, 06:24 PM
The steals is impressive, the assists and rebounds at the pace they play and the shooters he's surrounded with . Not so much

He averaged 19/10/7.5 (on 46/45/72) in the playoffs last season when Curry went down with the MCL tear (and obviously pre KD). The constant notion that Draymond wouldn't excel if more offense ran through him, or that averaging 7+ APG as a PF is not insanely impressive is a tired narrative.

You guys need to wake up. This guy brings superstar level impact, with or without superstar teammates.

FlashBolt
02-14-2017, 07:29 PM
The notion that Draymond would be the same level defender and better offensively without his all-time great offensive teammates is a lie. I can get five assists playing with KD+Curry+Klay as well.. those guys don't even need great passes to excel offensively. Rebounding isn't uncommon for his position. The steals and blocks are what interests me. Triple double is becoming repetitive these days.

nastynice
02-14-2017, 08:34 PM
The notion that Draymond would be the same level defender and better offensively without his all-time great offensive teammates is a lie. I can get five assists playing with KD+Curry+Klay as well.. those guys don't even need great passes to excel offensively. Rebounding isn't uncommon for his position. The steals and blocks are what interests me. Triple double is becoming repetitive these days.

True, but this one's a little diff than the ones you've been repetitively seeing lately, because you know, this one actually resulted in a win ;)

FlashBolt
02-14-2017, 08:55 PM
True, but this one's a little diff than the ones you've been repetitively seeing lately, because you know, this one actually resulted in a win ;)

And how many wins does Draymond get if you swap him with Westbrook? LOL.. yeah.. How many assists does he average dishing it out to Roberson?

Raps18-19 Champ
02-14-2017, 09:11 PM
Nah. Watch the game. If anything he got more lax later in the game.

I watched the game when it happened and that's what I saw.

tredigs
02-14-2017, 09:11 PM
Draymond now leads the NBA in RPM, by the way. Pretty solid for a bit role player.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-14-2017, 09:13 PM
If "stat-padding" means his already elite level of constant defensive urgency is turned up a notch, that's a good thing to pad. I don't think one of them came from jumping a passing lane (9 was an inlet pass to the post he broke up and 10 was another on-ball swipe). He was a +26 in a 15 point finish (next closest +18), and had just 3 fouls and a couple turnovers. It was an incredible game. Though resident salty OKC fan up there wasn't impressed by the 15 blocks/steals coupled with the double digit rebounds and assists from the PF/C in the grindhouse, rest assure, it was a game for the ages.

I think you're focusing too much on "stat padding" like I'm saying it's a bad thing here. I guess you don't think Klay was trying to add on to his points that one game too? All players do it. I'm saying he tried to get the triple double and should've tried to get the quad.

tredigs
02-14-2017, 09:34 PM
I think you're focusing too much on "stat padding" like I'm saying it's a bad thing here. I guess you don't think Klay was trying to add on to his points that one game too? All players do it. I'm saying he tried to get the triple double and should've tried to get the quad.

My point was that a "stat pad" with steals is a great thing to try to pad. No better/harder stat in the game than a steal, especially if you're not jumping passing lanes constantly and getting beat half the time (I see you AI).

nastynice
02-14-2017, 11:06 PM
And how many wins does Draymond get if you swap him with Westbrook? LOL.. yeah.. How many assists does he average dishing it out to Roberson?

haha, true, I just wanted you to see that its not as repetitive as you think. We got a .800+ squad here, ain't nothing between the thunder and the warriors repetitive

Sactown
02-16-2017, 12:34 AM
He averaged 19/10/7.5 (on 46/45/72) in the playoffs last season when Curry went down with the MCL tear (and obviously pre KD). The constant notion that Draymond wouldn't excel if more offense ran through him, or that averaging 7+ APG as a PF is not insanely impressive is a tired narrative.

You guys need to wake up. This guy brings superstar level impact, with or without superstar teammates.

Are you really telling me that passing to guys that will all end up in the top 10 in history in 3 point makes (Curry Klay and Durant) doesn't make your job easier? They lead the league in made baskets and play at the second fastest pace, you don't think that will make getting 10 assists easier? Stop it....

It's probably easier to get 20 assists playing for the GSW than 5 on Orlando

Scoots
02-16-2017, 03:09 PM
Are you really telling me that passing to guys that will all end up in the top 10 in history in 3 point makes (Curry Klay and Durant) doesn't make your job easier? They lead the league in made baskets and play at the second fastest pace, you don't think that will make getting 10 assists easier? Stop it....

It's probably easier to get 20 assists playing for the GSW than 5 on Orlando

There are more assists to be had on the Warriors to be sure ... but because everybody moves the ball it's not easy to be the one to make the last pass. To some extent to get 10 assists on the Warriors means you have to make many more passes than on some other teams.

tredigs
02-16-2017, 03:32 PM
Are you really telling me that passing to guys that will all end up in the top 10 in history in 3 point makes (Curry Klay and Durant) doesn't make your job easier? They lead the league in made baskets and play at the second fastest pace, you don't think that will make getting 10 assists easier? Stop it....

It's probably easier to get 20 assists playing for the GSW than 5 on Orlando

You're quoting the post where I illustrated his Assist totals sustaining (in the playoffs at that) without Curry, and pre-KD. Do I think life is easier on the Warriors? Oh without a doubt. Do I know that Draymond would be an elite playmaker if given the opportunity wherever he was? Also, without a doubt. There's no team he'd average less than 5 APG if given the same opportunity, and in many cases he'd be tasked to do so much more offensively that his Assist total would rise (D would likely suffer a bit though). He has truly fantastic vision for a 4. There's very few bigs with his talent for playmaking. It's not "The Warriors" making him who he is.

Sactown
02-16-2017, 03:47 PM
You're quoting the post where I illustrated his Assist totals sustaining (in the playoffs at that) without Curry, and pre-KD. Do I think life is easier on the Warriors? Oh without a doubt. Do I know that Draymond would be an elite playmaker if given the opportunity wherever he was? Also, without a doubt. There's no team he'd average less than 5 APG if given the same opportunity, and in many cases he'd be tasked to do so much more offensively that his Assist total would rise (D would likely suffer a bit though). He has truly fantastic vision for a 4. There's very few bigs with his talent for playmaking. It's not "The Warriors" making him who he is.

To a degree the warriors do make him who he is, just like every other very good role player. He's a great defender, the warriors don't make him that, but rather that's a product of who he is.

Are his numbers inflated by the team he plays with? Absolutely. His FG% isnt great even though he gets a great shot selection do to the attention his teammates get.

Is his assist per game inflated? Yes with three historic shooters on a face paced team, this team also shoots the highest % of any team in the league.

Is he arguably the best role player in the league? Yes, but in my eyes he's still a role player, he just has the benefit of playing with two MVP candidates in their prime with unlimited distance and extremely quick releases. I could get 5 assists per game on that team.

Also there are plenty of teams he'd average under 5 assists for, in fact he averaged under 5 assists per game with basically the same usage the year before Curry went crazy and became the MVP, they also played at the fastest pace in the league that year.

tredigs
02-16-2017, 04:33 PM
I'm seriously loving all these slobs on the web saying "I'd average 5 APG on that team!". Multiple posts now to that effect. No, stop being tools and trolls. You wouldn't. You wouldn't average 1 APG or 2 PPG if given 20 minutes to achieve it. On any team.

Dray was not the same player 3 years ago as he has become, nor did he have the same role. Hence, "given the same role". His improvements as a player dictated that more of the offense be ran through him.

The Warriors run a fairly historically average pace of about 101. It's a couple possessions more a game than your average team. There's no meaningful stat inflation there when you're talking about a 2-4% difference spread among all players. He also only plays 32.9 mpg. Per-36 he's an 8 APG palyer. And really, all you have to do is pick up a remote and watch these guys here and there to understand that his vision and passing ability are very legit. And for the 3rd time, I'll point you to his playoff run sans Curry and pre-KD as an illustration that his passing #'s don't see some precipitous decline without the talent. In fact they all went up. Small sample size theater? To an extent, but also a clear indication that there is not the fall-off that those who don't often see him play would imagine. Concerning his FG%, it's the wrong drum to beat when you're all about the narrative that more stars have made it easier on him. Without KD last season he averaged 49% from the field and 39% from three. I think his focus has been so inclusive to passing and defense that his numbers alongside so many stars have taken a significant hit. When you're arguably the most important player on a team with multiple MVP's (one indicator is how often they switch RPM lead positions, with him leading the Warriors and the entire NBA right now), you're no role player. He's an engine on both ends.

Sactown
02-16-2017, 04:48 PM
I'm seriously loving all these slobs on the web saying "I'd average 5 APG on that team!". Multiple posts now to that effect. No, stop being tools and trolls. You wouldn't. You wouldn't average 1 APG or 2 PPG if given 20 minutes to achieve it. On any team.

Dray was not the same player 3 years ago as he has become, nor did he have the same role. Hence, "given the same role". His improvements as a player dictated that more of the offense be ran through him.

The Warriors run a fairly historically average pace of about 101. It's a couple possessions more a game than your average team. There's no meaningful stat inflation there when you're talking about a 2-4% difference spread among all players. He also only plays 32.9 mpg. Per-36 he's an 8 APG palyer. And really, all you have to do is pick up a remote and watch these guys here and there to understand that his vision and passing ability are very legit. And for the 3rd time, I'll point you to his playoff run sans Curry and pre-KD as an illustration that his passing #'s don't see some precipitous decline without the talent. In fact they all went up. Small sample size theater? To an extent, but also a clear indication that there is not the fall-off that those who don't often see him play would imagine. Concerning his FG%, it's the wrong drum to beat when you're all about the narrative that more stars have made it easier on him. Without KD last season he averaged 49% from the field and 39% from three. I think his focus has been so inclusive to passing and defense that his numbers alongside so many stars have taken a significant hit. When you're arguably the most important player on a team with multiple MVP's (one indicator is how often they switch RPM lead positions, with him leading the Warriors and the entire NBA right now), you're no role player. He's an engine on both ends.

Everything you're mentioning is subjective, he's not even remotely close to the most important player on this team.you mention his fg% from last year as if he wasn't still surrounded with killers...

Every team in the league would rather see the ball in Draymonds hands over any of Klay Steph and Durant.

He's 8th in the league in assists per game this season, is he the 8th best playmaker in the league this season? Or perhaps he's the only guy in the league surrounded by that type of offensive talent.

You say his doubling of assists in one season is due to his development and not the increased scoring prowess of Steph and I disagree, I think it has everything to do with Curry and others starting to score at a historic pace.

tredigs
02-16-2017, 04:57 PM
Everything you're mentioning is subjective, he's not even remotely close to the most important player on this team.you mention his fg% from last year as if he wasn't still surrounded with killers...

Every team in the league would rather see the ball in Draymonds hands over any of Klay Steph and Durant.

He's 8th in the league in assists per game this season, is he the 8th best playmaker in the league this season? Or perhaps he's the only guy in the league surrounded by that type of offensive talent.

You say his doubling of assists in one season is due to his development and not the increased scoring prowess of Steph and I disagree, I think it has everything to do with Curry and others starting to score at a historic pace.
You are so clueless and out of your depth here dude. Yes, he does in fact have an argument as the most important player on the team. All 3 have decent arguments in fact. Draymond is clearly the teams best defender and most dynamic defender. Without him, they can't play their same style. And without him offensively they're relegated to an entirely different system where the PF is not tasked with being the decision maker off of high pins and really all screens catered to him. Leading the league in RPM (and always being among the league leaders the past few years) is not a fluke. He is an extremely potent presence on the floor.

But you're right, maybe it's because of Curry's massive scoring increase from a few years ago to his first MVP season that caused the shift, and not Kerr actively deciding to involve Draymond as a focal point in the offensive setup due to his increased aptitude for the role. Sure, one might say that Curry's scoring actually went down from the previous season to his 1st MVP, concurrent with Dray's APG explosion. But what do facts know anyway?

Hawkeye15
02-16-2017, 05:05 PM
Someone like Green, to me, is no way a guy who can be a #1, or run a contender. But he is PERFECT for a team that has a couple of all NBA players on it already, to be the do everything guy.

He is tough to gauge. If he is on the Bucks for example, he isn't going to be an all NBA player imo. Or the Lakers, or the Wolves, or the Rockets, get it yet? I think GS would miss him dearly, but I think Green would miss Curry/Klay, and now Durant much more.

Just looked at his advanced numbers. He is very unique

tredigs
02-16-2017, 05:15 PM
Someone like Green, to me, is no way a guy who can be a #1, or run a contender. But he is PERFECT for a team that has a couple of all NBA players on it already, to be the do everything guy.

He is tough to gauge. If he is on the Bucks for example, he isn't going to be an all NBA player imo. Or the Lakers, or the Wolves, or the Rockets, get it yet? I think GS would miss him dearly, but I think Green would miss Curry/Klay, and now Durant much more.

Just looked at his advanced numbers. He is very unique

Of course he wouldn't be a "#1", but he would be many teams leader/best player. There's a significant difference that a lot of people have a hang-up getting past in my observations of Draymond being evaluated. As the league is currently constructed, he's probably the most versatile and best defender in the game. And he brings a ton of diversity offensively as well. I'm telling you, he'd make every team he was on significantly better. The #'s back it up in droves. Would he make them a contender? No, that would depend on their makeup and he'd need the offensive talent there. Does Anthony Davis and his 28/12 make his team a contender? Or hell even a playoff team? Nope. Takes help.

5ass
02-16-2017, 05:17 PM
I'd take him over BG no matter what my team looks like.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2017, 05:20 PM
Of course he wouldn't be a "#1", but he would be many teams leader/best player. There's a significant difference that a lot of people have a hang-up getting past in my observations of Draymond being evaluated. As the league is currently constructed, he's probably the most versatile and best defender in the game. And he brings a ton of diversity offensively as well. I'm telling you, he'd make every team he was on significantly better. The #'s back it up in droves. Would he make them a contender? No, that would depend on their makeup and he'd need the offensive talent there. Does Anthony Davis and his 28/12 make his team a contender? Or hell even a playoff team? Nope. Takes help.

I don't think any team with Draymond as their best player contends though. As good as he is.

But I get exactly what you are saying. Teams that contend absolutely benefit from having a Green type player. Dennis Rodman was a similar TYPE player, in that we all know he was fantastic, but he needed the right makeup around him.

He is as unique as they come. His volatility at times is probably frustrating, but there is a reason teams love versatile, glue guys who do it all.

Sactown
02-16-2017, 05:54 PM
You are so clueless and out of your depth here dude. Yes, he does in fact have an argument as the most important player on the team. All 3 have decent arguments in fact. Draymond is clearly the teams best defender and most dynamic defender. Without him, they can't play their same style. And without him offensively they're relegated to an entirely different system where the PF is not tasked with being the decision maker off of high pins and really all screens catered to him. Leading the league in RPM (and always being among the league leaders the past few years) is not a fluke. He is an extremely potent presence on the floor.

But you're right, maybe it's because of Curry's massive scoring increase from a few years ago to his first MVP season that caused the shift, and not Kerr actively deciding to involve Draymond as a focal point in the offensive setup due to his increased aptitude for the role. Sure, one might say that Curry's scoring actually went down from the previous season to his 1st MVP, concurrent with Dray's APG explosion. But what do facts know anyway?

I agree that his defensive versatility and ability to anchor that defense would be extremely difficult to replace, but are you really telling me that his offensive production couldn't easily be replaced? There are plenty of big guys who are more than capable of replacing that production, and fitting into that scheme

tredigs
02-16-2017, 06:04 PM
I don't think any team with Draymond as their best player contends though. As good as he is.

But I get exactly what you are saying. Teams that contend absolutely benefit from having a Green type player. Dennis Rodman was a similar TYPE player, in that we all know he was fantastic, but he needed the right makeup around him.

He is as unique as they come. His volatility at times is probably frustrating, but there is a reason teams love versatile, glue guys who do it all.

He could. It would have to be an '02 Pistons type scenario where they are built around their D and have a few solid offensive pieces. He doesn't have Worms rebounding but overall he's a much better player IMO. The ability to actually create plays and a guy who opposing bigs can't just leave wide open for 3 is a nuisance. He's a better perimeter shooter than Kobe until he hit year 5+, if you can believe that. Somebody teams at the time were willing to give open looks to. Like, I'd consider Kawhi a better all around player than Draymond. But it's not drastic. And he's the clear leader of a contender. Even as a 16/7/2.5 guy 3 years ago a strong argument could be made that Kawhi was their best player.

Huge difference between #1 scoring option and best player to me. Most of the time one and the same, but they definitely don't have to be.

tredigs
02-16-2017, 06:06 PM
I agree that his defensive versatility and ability to anchor that defense would be extremely difficult to replace, but are you really telling me that his offensive production couldn't easily be replaced? There are plenty of big guys who are more than capable of replacing that production, and fitting into that scheme

Defensively it could not be replaced. Offensively there are maybe 3 bigs in the league who could try to mimick his 3pt ability and passing/slashing prowess out of the high post.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2017, 06:07 PM
He could. It would have to be an '02 Pistons type scenario where they are built around their D and have a few solid offensive pieces. He doesn't have Worms rebounding but overall he's a much better player IMO. The ability to actually create plays and a guy who opposing bigs can't just leave wide open for 3 is a nuisance. He's a better perimeter shooter than Kobe until he hit year 5+, if you can believe that. Somebody teams at the time were willing to give open looks to. Like, I'd consider Kawhi a better all around player than Draymond. But it's not drastic. And he's the clear leader of a contender. Even as a 16/7/2.5 guy 3 years ago a strong argument could be made that Kawhi was their best player.

Huge difference between #1 scoring option and best player to me. Most of the time one and the same, but they definitely don't have to be.

that is an outlier though, not the norm. But yeah, probably need that type to make it work.

Green to me is like Leonard. I can't figure out for the life of me how valuable they really are, to no fault of their own. They have played with studs, for a great system, and it's just hard to quantify their individual value.

Man, we can't go down Worm versus Green haha, my bias for Dennis will kick in and I will stop making sense. I personally feel that Rodman was the most versatile defender the game has seen.

Sactown
02-16-2017, 06:11 PM
Defensively it could not be replaced. Offensively there are maybe 3 bigs in the league who could try to mimick his 3pt ability and passing/slashing prowess out of the high post.

Offensively:
DMC
KAT
Marc Gasol
Greak Freak
Al Horford
Blake Griffin
Jokic
LeBron
Davis

All players who can play the high post affectively and with time Porzingis as well.

Chronz
02-16-2017, 06:13 PM
He could. It would have to be an '02 Pistons type scenario where they are built around their D and have a few solid offensive pieces. He doesn't have Worms rebounding but overall he's a much better player IMO. The ability to actually create plays and a guy who opposing bigs can't just leave wide open for 3 is a nuisance. He's a better perimeter shooter than Kobe until he hit year 5+, if you can believe that. Somebody teams at the time were willing to give open looks to. Like, I'd consider Kawhi a better all around player than Draymond. But it's not drastic. And he's the clear leader of a contender. Even as a 16/7/2.5 guy 3 years ago a strong argument could be made that Kawhi was their best player.

Huge difference between #1 scoring option and best player to me. Most of the time one and the same, but they definitely don't have to be.

Rodman had a case with the Pistons as well. The 3 ball gives added spacing to offset the rebounding but you take into account the eras and I think Rodman has a better case simply because spacing wasn't important in a 1v1 league where defenders had to stay attached to even the worst of shooters.

Chronz
02-16-2017, 06:21 PM
that is an outlier though, not the norm. But yeah, probably need that type to make it work.

Green to me is like Leonard. I can't figure out for the life of me how valuable they really are, to no fault of their own. They have played with studs, for a great system, and it's just hard to quantify their individual value.

Man, we can't go down Worm versus Green haha, my bias for Dennis will kick in and I will stop making sense. I personally feel that Rodman was the most versatile defender the game has seen.

Always took offense to that outlier theory. To me they were no different, the most talented team in the league won.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2017, 06:22 PM
Always took offense to that outlier theory. To me they were no different, the most talented team in the league won.

The outlier is, they had no "stars". They had excellent, all star level players, but nobody that the rest of the league coveted at the time. They also ran into a soap opera in the Lakers that year.

Vee-Rex
02-16-2017, 06:36 PM
Offensively:
DMC
KAT
Marc Gasol
Greak Freak
Al Horford
Blake Griffin
Jokic
LeBron
Davis

All players who can play the high post affectively and with time Porzingis as well.

I think he mostly meant controlling/running the offense at the point of attack. Basically a point guard in the half court and especially in transition. His ability to do this is a big part of GS's system.

DMC/KAT/Gasol/Horford/Jokic for sure couldn't do it. Gasol and Jokic are great passing big men, but they don't actually lead the push up and down the floor in the manner that Green can do.

Maybe Blake and AD could do it (obviously Bron and Giannis can), but it's a pretty unique skill for a big man and is why it's probably more likely with hybrid SF/PF's.

tredigs
02-16-2017, 06:51 PM
Offensively:
DMC
KAT
Marc Gasol
Greak Freak
Al Horford
Blake Griffin
Jokic
LeBron
Davis

All players who can play the high post affectively and with time Porzingis as well.
I'm talking specifically about passing/slashing/ability to stretch bigs to 3pt range. Need speed and ball handling on top of everything else.

DMC doesn't have the slashing or passing ability.
KAT doesn't have the passing and is also slower.
Gasol can't slash and will only now take an open 3.
Freak has no range, and he's not a 4/5.
Horford is not a threat to slash/create.
Griffin yes, he has all the tools, though Dray's better from deep (BG has a deep mid-range, but won't take 3's)
Jokic isn't a threat to shoot and is slow, but his passing out of the high post is 2nd to none right now. Unfortunately he can't defend a chair.
Lebron sure, though not really a 4, he could certainly play the part. So that's 1 clear yes. A top 5 player All-Time in his prime.
AD has nowhere near the vision/passing.

Funnily enough you missed the closest comp which is Millsap. He's Draymond-lite in most regards, but with a slightly bit scoring prowess.

Sactown
02-16-2017, 07:22 PM
I'm talking specifically about passing/slashing/ability to stretch bigs to 3pt range. Need speed and ball handling on top of everything else.

DMC doesn't have the slashing or passing ability.
KAT doesn't have the passing and is also slower.
Gasol can't slash and will only now take an open 3.
Freak has no range, and he's not a 4/5.
Horford is not a threat to slash/create.
Griffin yes, he has all the tools, though Dray's better from deep (BG has a deep mid-range, but won't take 3's)
Jokic isn't a threat to shoot and is slow, but his passing out of the high post is 2nd to none right now. Unfortunately he can't defend a chair.
Lebron sure, though not really a 4, he could certainly play the part. So that's 1 clear yes. A top 5 player All-Time in his prime.
AD has nowhere near the vision/passing.

Funnily enough you missed the closest comp which is Millsap. He's Draymond-lite in most regards, but with a slightly bit scoring prowess.

DMC actually has a higher AST% than Draymond , and is every bit the slasher he is. Plus a better deep ball shooter and post player

KAT isn't a bad passer, but probably isn't as good, but a far superior post player , and is better from deep this season.

The Greak freak isn't the deep ball shooter, but a good passer and a much better slasher.

Al Horford is just below in AST%, shoots better from deep and is a much better low post scorer

Jokic isn't the slasher, but can run that offense out of the high post and is a better low post scorer

AD isn't the passer, but his presence would easily create better looks for his teammates as he needs to be doubled

Nobody is an exact carbon copy, but all of these guys can replace and most can out produce draymond on offense.

Chronz
02-16-2017, 08:19 PM
The outlier is, they had no "stars". They had excellent, all star level players, but nobody that the rest of the league coveted at the time. They also ran into a soap opera in the Lakers that year.

Yeah I know what you meant, I guess you're saying it would be hard to replicate?

I personally dont care for perceptions because they often lag behind reality, Chauncey was a star and so was Ben IMO. I get that they weren't pantheon guys but championship contending teams could do worse than Draymond as their best player. Put him in Portland and I think they become demonstrably better and he has something of a case as his teams best player. Maybe even in Toronto

Yeah Kobe ruined the soap opera but so did injuries. That Detroit team still made it to G7 against the Dynastic Spurs in the next Finals and could have easily won.

ewing
02-16-2017, 11:42 PM
Of course he wouldn't be a "#1", but he would be many teams leader/best player. There's a significant difference that a lot of people have a hang-up getting past in my observations of Draymond being evaluated. As the league is currently constructed, he's probably the most versatile and best defender in the game. And he brings a ton of diversity offensively as well. I'm telling you, he'd make every team he was on significantly better. The #'s back it up in droves. Would he make them a contender? No, that would depend on their makeup and he'd need the offensive talent there. Does Anthony Davis and his 28/12 make his team a contender? Or hell even a playoff team? Nope. Takes help.

I don't know if he is the best defender in the league but you are on the money on this one. Dude would absolutely bring a ton of value to any team that played any style. I cant believe we are still debating weather he is awesome. Do people still think kawhi is a role player too?

ewing
02-16-2017, 11:57 PM
I don't know if he is the best defender in the league but you are on the money on this one. Dude would absolutely bring a ton of value to any team that played any style. I cant believe we are still debating weather he is awesome. Do people still think kawhi is a role player in the right system too?




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Scoots
02-17-2017, 08:48 AM
I don't know if he is the best defender in the league but you are on the money on this one. Dude would absolutely bring a ton of value to any team that played any style. I cant believe we are still debating weather he is awesome. Do people still think kawhi is a role player too?

No, because he scores. Even here most people associate value with scoring.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2017, 11:20 AM
Yeah I know what you meant, I guess you're saying it would be hard to replicate?

I personally dont care for perceptions because they often lag behind reality, Chauncey was a star and so was Ben IMO. I get that they weren't pantheon guys but championship contending teams could do worse than Draymond as their best player. Put him in Portland and I think they become demonstrably better and he has something of a case as his teams best player. Maybe even in Toronto

Yeah Kobe ruined the soap opera but so did injuries. That Detroit team still made it to G7 against the Dynastic Spurs in the next Finals and could have easily won.

probably a better way to put it, yes.