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View Full Version : Is the 2016 NBA draft class the worst ever?



RLundi
02-08-2017, 10:48 AM
Believe me, I hate labeling/attaching "best ever" arguments to discussions. It just seems so all-encompassing and lazy and exhaustive to be honest. But I honestly can't remember a draft class since I've been alive that has been so awful. I understand that many draft classes can't be truly evaluated until a few years down the line, but this year's draft has been absolutely abysmal.

The 2013 draft class was embarrassing and the 2000 draft also comes to mind when thinking about historically bad drafts. But not a single player from this year's draft is averaging double figure scoring a game. Let that sink in. NOT A SINGLE PLAYER. I don't even know if that's ever happened before (too lazy to look it up). True, Ben Simmons might change that soon, but even if he does, that would be a total of 1 player out of roughly 60 that will average double figure scoring for the season.

Good thing Embiid is still technically a rookie because if he wasn't in line to win ROY in May, I honestly have no idea who the ROY would be, but it would undoubtedly be the worst one since at least 2000, if not of all time.

Thoughts?

Giannis94
02-08-2017, 11:01 AM
I mean we said the that same thing about the 2013 draft and it's developed into a not-the-worst-of-alltime, I think?

McCollum, Schroeder, Adams, Oladipo, Noel, Porter are all slightly above to above average.

Tony Snell, Roberson, Crabbe are solid role players, and got paid.

Giannis is paying off.


In regards to this class from this past year I think we need to give it a bit of time. Murray, Simmons, Ingram (nearly identical stats as dirk so far), Maker could all be stars. Brogdon and TLC look like at at least average players.

I have faith that other players will develop.

tp13baby
02-08-2017, 11:09 AM
Brogdon will be a good starter. TLC depends what is role will be. Murray plays on the deepest team in the league with limited opportunities and sporadic minutes. Dejounte Murray looks really good when Parker didn't play. Zubac looks good.

Not every rookie will come in and contribute significant minutes. We are halfway through the year.

Giannis94
02-08-2017, 11:10 AM
Brogdon will be a good starter. TLC depends what is role will be. Murray plays on the deepest team in the league with limited opportunities and sporadic minutes. Dejounte Murray looks really good when Parker didn't play. Zubac looks good.

Not every rookie will come in and contribute significant minutes. We are halfway through the year.

ZOMG Ingram sucks! Dude is 19 and plays in one of the biggest markets in the NBA with media following his every step.

tp13baby
02-08-2017, 11:26 AM
ZOMG Ingram sucks! Dude is 19 and plays in one of the biggest markets in the NBA with media following his every step.

He is by bar the least productive guy that plays solid minutes in the past few previous drafts, but I can't knock him off yet. Its been a half year. I won't conclude anything.

And also this draft was never considered good so I don't know why its a surprise no one has broke out yet.

Giannis94
02-08-2017, 11:30 AM
He is by bar the least productive guy that plays solid minutes in the past few previous drafts, but I can't knock him off yet. Its been a half year. I won't conclude anything.

And also this draft was never considered good so I don't know why its a surprise no one has broke out yet.

Like I posted in another thread. He has nearly identical stats as dirk did his first year. Give this kid some time. He is a puppy

warfelg
02-08-2017, 12:04 PM
And the number 1 pick hasn't played yet. So give it time.

Hawkeye15
02-08-2017, 12:17 PM
Like I posted in another thread. He has nearly identical stats as dirk did his first year. Give this kid some time. He is a puppy

Dirk had much better efficiency, and was in a different world.

I get that it's early to call Ingram's career, but man has he sucked his rookie year.

Giannis94
02-08-2017, 12:24 PM
Dirk had much better efficiency, and was in a different world.

I get that it's early to call Ingram's career, but man has he sucked his rookie year.

Much better? MAybe slightly better if you look at PER 36

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Dirk+Nowitzki&player_id1_select=Dirk+Nowitzki&y1=1999&player_id1=nowitdi01&hint=Brandon+Ingram&player_id2_select=Brandon+Ingram&y2=2017&player_id2=ingrabr01

TheDish87
02-08-2017, 12:34 PM
jeez its been 50 games, relax.

The #1 pick hasnt played and #2 is stuck on the worst team in the league behind a bunch of gunners.

HandsOnTheWheel
02-08-2017, 12:35 PM
I think the league has improved talent wise throughout (with the exception of a few teams), leading to rookies not getting the minutes/scoring opportunities that were essentially there years ago. Give it a few years and these rookies who are getting bench minutes will certainly have increased roles.

Hawkeye15
02-08-2017, 12:39 PM
Much better? MAybe slightly better if you look at PER 36

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Dirk+Nowitzki&player_id1_select=Dirk+Nowitzki&y1=1999&player_id1=nowitdi01&hint=Brandon+Ingram&player_id2_select=Brandon+Ingram&y2=2017&player_id2=ingrabr01

I have looked. Better PER, TS, WS, etc. Dirk was bad, but he wasn't all wordly bad.

RLundi
02-08-2017, 12:45 PM
jeez its been 50 games, relax.

The #1 pick hasnt played and #2 is stuck on the worst team in the league behind a bunch of gunners.

I mean, over 60% of the season has passed. You think suddenly a rookie is going to break out and go gangbusters these last 30 games? Even if ONE rookie does that, still doesn't change the fact that the 59 other ones will still be under 10 points a game. Can you think of a time when no rookie averaged 10 a game in a season? I can't. That's historical (it seems).

Scoots
02-08-2017, 12:51 PM
17 of 60 rookies have yet to play a game another 10 have yet to play in 10 total games. That said there look to be several players who have shown enough to tell that they are at least solid players, and with as raw as players coming out of college we should expect some of them to go from nowhere to star in 2 or 3 years.

per36 several are in double digit scoring :)

RLundi
02-08-2017, 12:52 PM
I mean we said the that same thing about the 2013 draft and it's developed into a not-the-worst-of-alltime, I think?

McCollum, Schroeder, Adams, Oladipo, Noel, Porter are all slightly above to above average.

Tony Snell, Roberson, Crabbe are solid role players, and got paid.

Giannis is paying off.


In regards to this class from this past year I think we need to give it a bit of time. Murray, Simmons, Ingram (nearly identical stats as dirk so far), Maker could all be stars. Brogdon and TLC look like at at least average players.

I have faith that other players will develop.

Off the top of my head, Trey Burke, Noel, Oladipo, and Carter-Williams all averaged over 10 and played pretty significant roles on their teams. The 2013 draft WAS pretty bad, but even then, not as bad as this one was.

I'm not talking specifically about what they'll be in 5 years, but as a rookie class in their rookie seasons, the players from this class have been worse than any draft in recent memory.

Giannis94
02-08-2017, 12:59 PM
Off the top of my head, Trey Burke, Noel, Oladipo, and Carter-Williams all averaged over 10 and played pretty significant roles on their teams. The 2013 draft WAS pretty bad, but even then, not as bad as this one was.

I'm not talking specifically about what they'll be in 5 years, but as a rookie class in their rookie seasons, the players from this class have been worse than any draft in recent memory.

But we were saying that Porter and Snell sucked for the first 2-3 years. Player will develop and emerge over time.

LA4life24/8
02-08-2017, 01:10 PM
This year most of those rookies have been pretty bad. But quite a few of them have shown flashes of what they can become. If ingram wasnt playing behind lou/nick he would have progressed more by now imo. Zubac as well... dude had a double double (or very close to) in 17 minutes the other night. I speak specifically of course for my young guys cuz that's who i pay the most attention to. Theyve been pretty damn bad but im not gonna write any of their futures off just yet.

Vinylman
02-08-2017, 01:20 PM
jeez its been 50 games, relax.

The #1 pick hasnt played and #2 is stuck on the worst team in the league behind a bunch of gunners.

listen to this guy... he knows what he is talking about

Additionally, Ingram has started hitting the wall because he is just so damn physically underdeveloped

TheDish87
02-08-2017, 01:45 PM
I mean, over 60% of the season has passed. You think suddenly a rookie is going to break out and go gangbusters these last 30 games? Even if ONE rookie does that, still doesn't change the fact that the 59 other ones will still be under 10 points a game. Can you think of a time when no rookie averaged 10 a game in a season? I can't. That's historical (it seems).

why do they have to go off this season? again, allow time for players to develop and learn. Not everyone can be Lebron coming out.

tp13baby
02-08-2017, 02:33 PM
Mudiay was arguably the worst guard in the league for the first half of the season. Second half he was a 15 and 6 guy with solid efficiency. Guys improve over the course and until their rookie deal is up I won't judge their bust radar.

But it is still fair to criticize guys who have underperformed so far this season as rookies, especially the number 2 pick. Its not fair to say he will suck long term and his first half doesn't tell you anything more about the individual. Ingram has potential, but thats all we can say. Looking at him, he flat out has sucked for the first half, looks super underdeveloped skill and body wise.

For the comment that said he would develop without Lou or Nick. The best 5 man rotation he is in, Lou and Clarkson are his guards, shot happy. 4 man combo he is best in, still Lou. 3 man, Lou again. Best 2 man rotation he plays with. Lou Williams. Lou is the only guy he is positive with on the floor. Look at the data he plays the best with Lou. The whole team is a bunch of gunners while Russell is not as bad.

Bottom line I have nothing against him, think he has the potential to be good, but right now it sucks and no chucker, a team full of them is a reason he hasn't developed. He just isn't ready in general for the game, but should improve as the year goes on.

jaydubb
02-08-2017, 05:44 PM
This thread is about a year, year and a half too early at least.. Let the young guys at least go through a full offseason (preferably 2) before anybody starts labeling them.

Has this class looked bad? Yes, but it's a young class that could definitely get better with time.

mrblisterdundee
02-08-2017, 06:14 PM
The class of 2016 hasn't even played half a season yet. We haven't even seen the top pick play yet. Can't you wait a season for a thread like this?

Sactown
02-08-2017, 06:38 PM
for everyone saying it's too early, he started the thread by acknowledging that.

Has the first half been underwhelming for this draft? Absolutely, it's hard to look at anyone and get too excited. This is a historically bad first half of a season for rookies, doesn't mean we won't have late bloomers

Shammyguy3
02-08-2017, 06:48 PM
i'm gonna edit the title, as the title of "Is this the worst draft class ever" says 2016-17 which would be this upcoming June's draft and those players

Scoots
02-09-2017, 12:03 AM
for everyone saying it's too early, he started the thread by acknowledging that.

Has the first half been underwhelming for this draft? Absolutely, it's hard to look at anyone and get too excited. This is a historically bad first half of a season for rookies, doesn't mean we won't have late bloomers

He also started the thread by saying "worst ever" which really does need a perspective of all time and the first perspective of time and grading a draft class is that it takes a long time to grade them.

Right now the best we can do is give it an incomplete. If we compare this class to 2013 at the half way point of their rookie years 2013 maybe looks worse.

RLundi
02-09-2017, 10:59 AM
The class of 2016 hasn't even played half a season yet. We haven't even seen the top pick play yet. Can't you wait a season for a thread like this?

They've actually played more than half a season so I'm not totally sure what you're saying. Unless you think all the rookies are suddenly gonna go ape *** these last 30 or so games, this draft class -- at least in its first season -- is historically bad. Not much is gonna change at the end of the season.

RLundi
02-09-2017, 11:01 AM
He also started the thread by saying "worst ever" which really does need a perspective of all time and the first perspective of time and grading a draft class is that it takes a long time to grade them.

Right now the best we can do is give it an incomplete. If we compare this class to 2013 at the half way point of their rookie years 2013 maybe looks worse.


Off the top of my head, Trey Burke, Noel, Oladipo, and Carter-Williams all averaged over 10 and played pretty significant roles on their teams. The 2013 draft WAS pretty bad, but even then, not as bad as this one was.

I'm not talking specifically about what they'll be in 5 years, but as a rookie class in their rookie seasons, the players from this class have been worse than any draft in recent memory.

Ahem.

Sactown
02-09-2017, 02:16 PM
He also started the thread by saying "worst ever" which really does need a perspective of all time and the first perspective of time and grading a draft class is that it takes a long time to grade them.

Right now the best we can do is give it an incomplete. If we compare this class to 2013 at the half way point of their rookie years 2013 maybe looks worse.

Yes but the context is obviously "worst rookie season ever" not over the entirety of their career, and there's definitely a valid argument.

eso
02-09-2017, 02:40 PM
All I know after reading through this thread is Hawkeye hates Ingram haha

Scoots
02-09-2017, 04:06 PM
Ahem.

The only value in players is not points per game ... and 3 of the 4 are no longer on their drafting team and the 4th has been on the trade block for near 2 years. Not exactly shining for as short a time it's been.

MCW won rookie of the year ... that illustrates how bad that draft class was.

Scoots
02-09-2017, 04:07 PM
Yes but the context is obviously "worst rookie season ever" not over the entirety of their career, and there's definitely a valid argument.

Fair enough ... I didn't read it as limiting it to rookie seasons. This draft makes the list of worst ever in that context sure.

Sactown
02-09-2017, 05:58 PM
Fair enough ... I didn't read it as limiting it to rookie seasons. This draft makes the list of worst ever in that context sure.
This is the first time for sure that I can remember where tons of top 15 players aren't even really getting minutes on garbage teams.

Dragan Bender plays on one of the worst teams in the league and never plays #4

Chriss doesn't get 20MPG either

Dunn under 20MPG and that's with Rubio missing a stretch on a young team with no playoff aspirations.

Jamal Murray under 20MPG

Jaylen Brown under 20MPG

Thon Maker 6MPG

Most of these guys are on garbage teams.

RLundi
02-09-2017, 06:49 PM
The only value in players is not points per game ... and 3 of the 4 are no longer on their drafting team and the 4th has been on the trade block for near 2 years. Not exactly shining for as short a time it's been.

MCW won rookie of the year ... that illustrates how bad that draft class was.

I understand that but it's still pretty significant nonetheless. In most years, the player with the highest PPG average wins ROY. Just as an aside, if Embiid was hurt, who do you think would win ROY? I think Dario Saric has the highest PPG average of any rookie from this class and he's at 9.9ppg. That would HAVE to be the lowest average in at least the past 25 years, if not more, or ever. I'm not arguing over the course of careers here, but as rookies, this class is historically bad.