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View Full Version : Is Kyrie the most clutch player in the league, and potentially most clutch ever?



Vee-Rex
02-07-2017, 10:11 AM
Given that he's only 24 years old, it's remarkable how many clutch shots he has hit in his career so far. And he has been doing it since his rookie year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq1uqR3A6ZY

ewing
02-07-2017, 10:15 AM
Yes and No

RowBTrice
02-07-2017, 10:22 AM
Ever?????? LMAO....stop

Miltstar
02-07-2017, 10:23 AM
He is clutch i'll give you that but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Jamiecballer
02-07-2017, 10:23 AM
Lol

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RLundi
02-07-2017, 10:28 AM
Good god. Ever? Really?

europagnpilgrim
02-07-2017, 10:28 AM
He has no fear for sure in those moments, reminds me of The Answer who was clutch as they get in crunchtime

Vee-Rex
02-07-2017, 10:29 AM
:rolleyes:

I said potentially. You people can't read lol.

TheDish87
02-07-2017, 10:33 AM
ever? come onnnnn hes only played on 2 teams that werent among the worst in the league. Ask again in 5 years.

Jamiecballer
02-07-2017, 10:36 AM
I admit I thought it was funnier before I watched and was reminded of how many times he has come through but as mentioned he's 24 only and played for nothing of significance his first few years. He is impressive though for sure.

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Clint Olbrock
02-07-2017, 10:38 AM
Easily most clutch in the league.. They call the dude Mr. 4th quarter lol

Hawkeye15
02-07-2017, 10:52 AM
yeah he has been great down the stretch since his rookie year. Scoring/shot wise, he is up there with any player I would mention wanting late in games.

mrblisterdundee
02-07-2017, 11:42 AM
Given that he's only 24 years old, it's remarkable how many clutch shots he has hit in his career so far. And he has been doing it since his rookie year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq1uqR3A6ZY

Irving wasn't even the most clutch player in that game. Why don't we talk about James' spinning three, the only reason the Cavaliers even got to overtime?

mrblisterdundee
02-07-2017, 11:46 AM
Easily most clutch in the league.. They call the dude Mr. 4th quarter lol

Are you talking about Isaiah Thomas, the guy who's scoring more fourth-quarter points than any player in at least the last 20 years?

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 11:55 AM
lol

Vee-Rex
02-07-2017, 12:24 PM
Irving wasn't even the most clutch player in that game. Why don't we talk about James' spinning three, the only reason the Cavaliers even got to overtime?

So your point is that because you feel Irving wasn't the most clutch player in last night's game, Irving isn't the most clutch player in the league?

What does last night's game have to do with an argument for most clutch player in the league?

:confused:

Avenged
02-07-2017, 12:43 PM
.. ever. llullz

Clint Olbrock
02-07-2017, 12:45 PM
Are you talking about Isaiah Thomas, the guy who's scoring more fourth-quarter points than any player in at least the last 20 years?

Nope, talking about the guy who has been doing it for 5 years.. Not 5 weeks....

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 01:18 PM
to those laughing, can you offer some objectivity? I mean, which player would you take over him?

Vee-Rex
02-07-2017, 01:31 PM
to those laughing, can you offer some objectivity? I mean, which player would you take over him?

I look at the posts in this thread and see people laughing but offering nothing. Whereas if they simply read the title, they'd know that I was not making the argument that Kyrie is the best clutch player ever. Lol, no way. I'm simply arguing that it's possible (if he continues to be clutch throughout the rest of his career), that he can potentially end up as the best clutch player ever.

I'd love for anyone to name ANY player in the history of the game that has been as accomplished as Kyrie in the clutch at the age of 24.

https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/775343220159111169/photo/1

That chart shows that Kyrie has been the most efficient player in the last 5 years in the last minute of the 4th quarter and OT in a close game (within 3 points). The amount of shots he has hit has been staggering. The kid is 43/44 from the FT line in OT in his career. That's freaking insane.

Against, I challenge any gigglers in this thread to intellectually counter my argument that Kyrie has the POTENTIAL to be the best clutch player assuming he finishes his career the way it has started.

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 01:34 PM
to those laughing, can you offer some objectivity? I mean, which player would you take over him?

Exhibit A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=greStrG8iVA)

Exhibit B (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6XAjaNcMWA)

nastynice
02-07-2017, 01:57 PM
I'd love for anyone to name ANY player in the history of the game that has been as accomplished as Kyrie in the clutch at the age of 24.

what about magic and penny? shaq? kobe? kg? Its kinda hard to rate clutchness, but there's lot of players that were doing these things at 24.

tredigs
02-07-2017, 01:59 PM
He is absurdly clutch and I remember this back to his Rookie season, with the numbers backing it up (not sure if your link is just highlights or not). Also just saw that he is 98% on OT Free Throws in his career (~50 or so sample size).

As an 86.9% career FT shooter, that tells you all you need to know about how collected and on point he is under pressure. Last Finals sadly being the pinnacle of the example.

Miltstar
02-07-2017, 02:06 PM
I really like and respect Kyrie's game, it's too bad he has Lebron holding him back from being what he could be.

Vee-Rex
02-07-2017, 02:08 PM
what about magic and penny? shaq? kobe? kg? Its kinda hard to rate clutchness, but there's lot of players that were doing these things at 24.

Right, they were definitely making big shots. But to the extent that Kyrie has? Not even Jordan had the same kind of clutch moments his first 5 years in the league.

Kyrie's list of clutch moments (and by the way, that 11-min video doesn't show everything) from a quantitative measure are more numerous at age 24 than any of those guys you listed in their first 5 years in the league. Kobe ends up with quite a bit of clutch shots by the end of his career, but he wasn't totally efficient with it either.

And we don't even have to talk in terms of quality - the game 7 shot was one of the biggest clutch shots in the history of the game. He clutched the **** out of Detroit in the first round of the playoffs too, but people don't really know/remember it.

I'm taking Jordan on a last shot over any person in the history of the game, but is it possible that when Kyrie retires his name is tossed around those discussions too? I say it's possible (which is my only argument).

ewing
02-07-2017, 02:41 PM
I look at the posts in this thread and see people laughing but offering nothing. Whereas if they simply read the title, they'd know that I was not making the argument that Kyrie is the best clutch player ever. Lol, no way. I'm simply arguing that it's possible (if he continues to be clutch throughout the rest of his career), that he can potentially end up as the best clutch player ever.

I'd love for anyone to name ANY player in the history of the game that has been as accomplished as Kyrie in the clutch at the age of 24.

https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/775343220159111169/photo/1

That chart shows that Kyrie has been the most efficient player in the last 5 years in the last minute of the 4th quarter and OT in a close game (within 3 points). The amount of shots he has hit has been staggering. The kid is 43/44 from the FT line in OT in his career. That's freaking insane.

Against, I challenge any gigglers in this thread to intellectually counter my argument that Kyrie has the POTENTIAL to be the best clutch player assuming he finishes his career the way it has started.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

ewing
02-07-2017, 02:45 PM
what about magic and penny? shaq? kobe? kg? Its kinda hard to rate clutchness, but there's lot of players that were doing these things at 24.

what about KG? Dude was worse in the playoffs and isn't thought of a big shot guy at all. The existence of MJ ruins the his theory.

Rivera
02-07-2017, 03:29 PM
isiah thomas king of the 4th

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 03:34 PM
Exhibit A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=greStrG8iVA)

Exhibit B (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6XAjaNcMWA)

LMAO, Giannis is absolutely not clutch. He's an amazing stat-stuffer but it's quite depressing how he's putting up crazy numbers and is still unable to lead his team despite Jabari being amazing for the Bucks. Your boy Giannis needs to step it up. Dude looks lost out there when the game slows down. He has not upped his game and I am disappointed. Needs to take more shots and stop watching his teammates.


what about magic and penny? shaq? kobe? kg? Its kinda hard to rate clutchness, but there's lot of players that were doing these things at 24.

Well, that's why he's asking for examples and quite frankly, none were given.


I really like and respect Kyrie's game, it's too bad he has Lebron holding him back from being what he could be.

Yeah, Kyrie would be playing to win 30 games if not for LeBron while LeBron would be in championship contention. Totally held him back...

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 03:37 PM
isiah thomas king of the 4th

For this season, he has an argument.

BTW, we gotta talk about the playoffs before we can label Kyrie one of the most clutch. Dude destroyed the Warriors and brought the Cavs back along with LeBron. He annihilated Curry with that dagger. He will need more defining moments such as those to be up there. Just looking at most games, Kyrie has shown up more often than not. I'm not sure what it is but dude just craves moments like those. I remember the Spurs vs Cavs game a year or two back and this dude was just unreal. Even the Portland game about three years back when he dropped 55. It was unreal. Top ten performance I've ever seen live.

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 03:41 PM
BTW, that spot Kyrie shot over Curry in game 7 for the GW is the same spot he made it vs the Spurs to tie it going to OT, the same spot over Portland for the three point lead, and the same spot against Beal last night. Teams have to start covering him every time he goes to the right and pulls up. That move has been unstoppable for Kyrie in clutch moments.

Miltstar
02-07-2017, 05:09 PM
Yeah, Kyrie would be playing to win 30 games if not for LeBron while LeBron would be in championship contention. Totally held him back...

I'm sorry you don't understand.

ewing
02-07-2017, 05:12 PM
For this season, he has an argument.

BTW, we gotta talk about the playoffs before we can label Kyrie one of the most clutch. Dude destroyed the Warriors and brought the Cavs back along with LeBron. He annihilated Curry with that dagger. He will need more defining moments such as those to be up there. Just looking at most games, Kyrie has shown up more often than not. I'm not sure what it is but dude just craves moments like those. I remember the Spurs vs Cavs game a year or two back and this dude was just unreal. Even the Portland game about three years back when he dropped 55. It was unreal. Top ten performance I've ever seen live.


you were at the game? I remember that game. Dude can light it up

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 05:13 PM
LMAO, Giannis is absolutely not clutch. He's an amazing stat-stuffer but it's quite depressing how he's putting up crazy numbers and is still unable to lead his team despite Jabari being amazing for the Bucks. Your boy Giannis needs to step it up. Dude looks lost out there when the game slows down. He has not upped his game and I am disappointed. Needs to take more shots and stop watching his teammates.



Well, that's why he's asking for examples and quite frankly, none were given.



Yeah, Kyrie would be playing to win 30 games if not for LeBron while LeBron would be in championship contention. Totally held him back...

lol you are such a troll. He has not upped his game? Do you even watch basketball? Jealousy seethes from your posts. Either hit the ignore list or start researching more. Simple research will say that Giannis and crew have been playing a full man down all year. So in my books we are 0-0 at full strength with the worst coach in basketball.

Child Puuuuuhhhhlease

Hawkeye15
02-07-2017, 05:57 PM
I really like and respect Kyrie's game, it's too bad he has Lebron holding him back from being what he could be.

hahaha

Vee-Rex
02-07-2017, 06:21 PM
Just for fun comparisons sake:

Michael Jordan in his career has hit 25 game-winners or go-ahead buckets (playoffs included). If we include his two years with the Wizards, it totals 28. That's not the most game-winners for a player, though.

http://www.nba.com/jordan/game_winners.html

Kyrie, in that highlight video I posted at the beginning of this thread, hit a total of 14game-winners or go ahead (and I researched to make sure the Cavs won those games, because a couple of those shots [most notably the Cavs. vs. Warriors on Dec. 29th 2013 where Kyrie sent it into overtime on a go-ahead 3] didn't result in a Cavs win). That's not counting the Wizards game last night.

So Kyrie has already reached half the game-winners/go-aheads as MJ, yet he has probably only played 30% of his career so far. Obviously, Jordan was a juggernaut in so many different kinds of late game situations and easily the better clutch player as of now. But if Kyrie can maintain his current clutch production or exceed it, when he retires there's a chance his name will be thrown into the conversation.

We all remember MJ so fondly and his career highlights will always stick with us for a lifetime, but that doesn't mean he's going to forever be the best at literally everything he has ever done.

For the record, Kobe has hit more game-winners/go-aheads than Jordan, but his efficiency is much, much worse.

MassoDio
02-07-2017, 07:07 PM
Just for fun comparisons sake:

Michael Jordan in his career has hit 25 game-winners or go-ahead buckets (playoffs included). If we include his two years with the Wizards, it totals 28. That's not the most game-winners for a player, though.

http://www.nba.com/jordan/game_winners.html

Kyrie, in that highlight video I posted at the beginning of this thread, hit a total of 14game-winners or go ahead (and I researched to make sure the Cavs won those games, because a couple of those shots [most notably the Cavs. vs. Warriors on Dec. 29th 2013 where Kyrie sent it into overtime on a go-ahead 3] didn't result in a Cavs win). That's not counting the Wizards game last night.

So Kyrie has already reached half the game-winners/go-aheads as MJ, yet he has probably only played 30% of his career so far. Obviously, Jordan was a juggernaut in so many different kinds of late game situations and easily the better clutch player as of now. But if Kyrie can maintain his current clutch production or exceed it, when he retires there's a chance his name will be thrown into the conversation.

We all remember MJ so fondly and his career highlights will always stick with us for a lifetime, but that doesn't mean he's going to forever be the best at literally everything he has ever done.

For the record, Kobe has hit more game-winners/go-aheads than Jordan, but his efficiency is much, much worse.

The bolded does not define "clutch" in its totality. That stat keeps getting used, but it is only one aspect of being "clutch". How many times has he come up with a key block, steal, assist? How many times has he scored 16 of the team's 25 in the last 8 minutes of the 4th quarter when the team was down 12 to start with? There are a lot of things that can be considered when talking about being "clutch".

Is Kyrie the best "clutch" shooter in the NBA now? There could be a good argument for that. Is he the most "clutch" PLAYER in the NBA right now? I would have to hear a lot of examples of things other than shots that he has made in a small window of time that seems to be the only thing that people talk about when discussing "clutch". LeBron is still more of a clutch PLAYER with all things considered, but Kyrie is a more clutch shooter in that small window of time.

Does he have the potential to be the most clutch player ever? Again...he would have to do A LOT more than hit shots in that window to be considered the most clutch player ever, but sure....he has the potential. I also have the potential to go to the moon one day.....but is it likely...probably not.

Vee-Rex
02-07-2017, 07:46 PM
The bolded does not define "clutch" in its totality. That stat keeps getting used, but it is only one aspect of being "clutch". How many times has he come up with a key block, steal, assist? How many times has he scored 16 of the team's 25 in the last 8 minutes of the 4th quarter when the team was down 12 to start with? There are a lot of things that can be considered when talking about being "clutch".

Is Kyrie the best "clutch" shooter in the NBA now? There could be a good argument for that. Is he the most "clutch" PLAYER in the NBA right now? I would have to hear a lot of examples of things other than shots that he has made in a small window of time that seems to be the only thing that people talk about when discussing "clutch". LeBron is still more of a clutch PLAYER with all things considered, but Kyrie is a more clutch shooter in that small window of time.

Does he have the potential to be the most clutch player ever? Again...he would have to do A LOT more than hit shots in that window to be considered the most clutch player ever, but sure....he has the potential. I also have the potential to go to the moon one day.....but is it likely...probably not.

Sound argument. I fully agree that 'game-winner/go-ahead' is a somewhat arbitrary parameter for clutch. It doesn't necessarily hurt the argument for Kyrie being the best in the league since he has performed extremely well in entire 4th quarters and overtime situations. He has consistently taken over games in the last 6 or 8 or 10 minutes. There's a reason why he was called 'Mr. 4th quarter' for years (Of course people are calling IT that because of his performances this year).

MJ was just scary good though and so I don't fault anyone for being inflexible regarding Kyrie's potential. I just feel that people assume Kyrie has only hit a few big shots - which is absolutely wrong.

But I think when most people refer to 'clutch', they are referring to scoring ability (rather than steals, blocks, and assists) and so I disagree with that point. I mean, if Rajon Rondo made a lot of great passes at the end of games, should he be considered one of the best clutch players? No, IMO. Same goes with steals and blocks. The one that hoists up the shots is indisputably the one with the most pressure.

Edit: Google Mr. 4th Quarter and you'll see it's pretty much all Kyrie for years (except for a couple IT ones just made a few weeks ago).

YAALREADYKNO
02-07-2017, 08:07 PM
I really like and respect Kyrie's game, it's too bad he has Lebron holding him back from being what he could be.

Without lebron he'd probably be in the lottery

LA_Raiders
02-07-2017, 08:34 PM
No, we will see in 10yrs

Miltstar
02-07-2017, 08:36 PM
Without lebron he'd probably be in the lottery

Without Lebron He'd be the leader of a great young team with Andrew Wiggins and who knows what else. Right now he's just stuck in Lebron's shadow and forced to live with Lebron's bad decision making. At least he got to hit the big shot in game 7, Lebron would have lost that finals too without him.

tredigs
02-07-2017, 09:13 PM
BTW veerex you unintentionally derailed a solid queation/thread with part 2 of the title. Everybody is just going to focus on that as it sounds like you're asking if he may already be the GOAT clutch player, not if he has the potential to be that guy. Which in either case is a bit premature for a guy with ~5 playoff series under his belt.

Also a tough statement to make about a #2 option. Everybody else we would mention are absolute #1 Alphas who defenses have their primary focus on.

koreancabbage
02-07-2017, 09:39 PM
Without Lebron He'd be the leader of a great young team with Andrew Wiggins and who knows what else. Right now he's just stuck in Lebron's shadow and forced to live with Lebron's bad decision making. At least he got to hit the big shot in game 7, Lebron would have lost that finals too without him.

they'd still be in the lottery. Lebron would be in the finals on a different team if not Cleveland.

Kyrie is getting great exposure to winning as a young kid. Living in the shadow until Lebron gets old isn't the worst thing for Kyrie.

Your hate for one of the best players in the NBA of all time is damning.

Miltstar
02-07-2017, 10:48 PM
Your hate for one of the best players in the NBA of all time is damning.

His talent is undeniable but he has turned the league into a joke, he's no different from Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa in my eyes, but at least those guys were properly punished. If you support Lebron, I'm also going to assume you support Donald Trump, and if you support Donald Trump than there is no hope left for you.

Anyways, I'm not going to let you guys de-rail another thread. Kyrie is a very clutch player, already the most clutch on his team. As far as all time goes we'll have to wait and see.

Chronz
02-07-2017, 11:30 PM
I do remember his rookie year where his PER went through the roof come 4th quarter. Sounds odd to say of a team that lost as much as the Cavs have under his watch but it was during critical moments that his game raised to a level of actual ALL-GAME superstars. Its what gave so many hope that he would be a new CP3 of sorts and I still think he can be, hes just a tad behind schedule.

Still the guy has a proven track record of rising to the occasion and its what gives him the tie breaker in close arguments.

Vee-Rex
02-08-2017, 12:24 AM
BTW veerex you unintentionally derailed a solid queation/thread with part 2 of the title. Everybody is just going to focus on that as it sounds like you're asking if he may already be the GOAT clutch player, not if he has the potential to be that guy. Which in either case is a bit premature for a guy with ~5 playoff series under his belt.

Also a tough statement to make about a #2 option. Everybody else we would mention are absolute #1 Alphas who defenses have their primary focus on.

Yeah, I was thinking that I wish I hadn't included that 2nd part. I think the potential is there if all goes right, and I can try to use logic to support it, but I have absolutely no real argument against those that don't see it that way.

It's premature for Kyrie since he has a long way to go before being lumped in with our greatest clutch players.

Scoots
02-08-2017, 12:38 AM
Maybe. No.

ewing
02-08-2017, 12:38 AM
I do remember his rookie year where his PER went through the roof come 4th quarter. Sounds odd to say of a team that lost as much as the Cavs have under his watch but it was during critical moments that his game raised to a level of actual ALL-GAME superstars. Its what gave so many hope that he would be a new CP3 of sorts and I still think he can be, hes just a tad behind schedule.

Still the guy has a proven track record of rising to the occasion and its what gives him the tie breaker in close arguments.


Were sooo many impressed with his rookie year 4th quarter PER that they couldn't help but invoke the great CP3?

Jeffy25
02-08-2017, 12:41 AM
Irving wasn't even the most clutch player in that game. Why don't we talk about James' spinning three, the only reason the Cavaliers even got to overtime?

We can't because he missed a finger roll earlier lol

That was a holy **** shot by James btw

Chronz
02-08-2017, 01:08 AM
Were sooo many impressed with his rookie year 4th quarter PER that they couldn't help but invoke the great CP3?
Its kind of hard not to when you look at the stats. We are drawn to comparisons, why do you think we have so many arbitrary accomplishments?

tredigs
02-08-2017, 01:34 AM
We can't because he missed a finger roll earlier lol

That was a holy **** shot by James btw

Well yes, he missed a 3rd graders layup (post travel) and hit his 3rd "clutch" 3 in 33 attempts. He may be the worst clutch 3pt shooter in NBA history. In fact I'd be shocked if the numbers don't back that up in droves. And bear in mind, every team gives Bron all the room in the world on most 3s.

FlashBolt
02-08-2017, 09:47 AM
His talent is undeniable but he has turned the league into a joke, he's no different from Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa in my eyes, but at least those guys were properly punished. If you support Lebron, I'm also going to assume you support Donald Trump, and if you support Donald Trump than there is no hope left for you.

Anyways, I'm not going to let you guys de-rail another thread. Kyrie is a very clutch player, already the most clutch on his team. As far as all time goes we'll have to wait and see.

Lebron campaigned for hillary so why would you even think supporting lebron = trump? you are beyond bad.

ewing
02-08-2017, 11:46 AM
Yeah, I was thinking that I wish I hadn't included that 2nd part. I think the potential is there if all goes right, and I can try to use logic to support it, but I have absolutely no real argument against those that don't see it that way.

It's premature for Kyrie since he has a long way to go before being lumped in with our greatest clutch players.

I don't think he has the potential b/c he isn't good enough to be the best player on the floor in every series. We have a guy was better post season then reg and was always the best player on the floor. I respect you giving props to Kyrie and think he does deserve them

Miltstar
02-08-2017, 02:44 PM
Lebron campaigned for hillary so why would you even think supporting lebron = trump? you are beyond bad.

Why do you resort to personal attacks just because you can't comprehend what I say? BTW Trump is just the face for Hilary, sorry you can't see that. I still don't understand why people are so easily offended by words.

Clint Olbrock
02-08-2017, 03:09 PM
Why do you resort to personal attacks just because you can't comprehend what I say? BTW Trump is just the face for Hilary, sorry you can't see that. I still don't understand why people are so easily offended by words.

Aren't you from Canada? Why do you care about US politics?

BKLYNpigeon
02-08-2017, 04:08 PM
In the East. I would still take John Wall over him.

Blitzbolt
02-08-2017, 04:12 PM
Mario Chalmers.

Miltstar
02-08-2017, 04:16 PM
I'm gonna stop trying to help you guys. Good luck to all of you, I truly wish you the best! Farewell.

mrblisterdundee
02-08-2017, 04:23 PM
to those laughing, can you offer some objectivity? I mean, which player would you take over him?

1. Kevin Durant
2. Stephen Curry
3. Isaiah Thomas
4. Lebron James

Clint Olbrock
02-08-2017, 06:26 PM
1. Kevin Durant
2. Stephen Curry
3. Isaiah Thomas
4. Lebron James

Lol, jokes.

Clint Olbrock
02-08-2017, 06:27 PM
In the East. I would still take John Wall over him.

In clutch factor? Idk about that.

FlashBolt
02-08-2017, 10:20 PM
1. Kevin Durant
2. Stephen Curry
3. Isaiah Thomas
4. Lebron James

Yeah.. no. Thomas gets a pass because he's on a historic 4th quarter pace of that we haven't seen in decades but the rest aren't better than Kyrie. LeBron's lack of shooting prowess makes him iffy when you need to score in the clutch. It's just not a smart thing to have a bad shooter make a clutch shot. Do you think Phil asked Shaq to shoot the three to tie or win or Horry?

mrblisterdundee
02-08-2017, 11:17 PM
Yeah.. no. Thomas gets a pass because he's on a historic 4th quarter pace of that we haven't seen in decades but the rest aren't better than Kyrie. LeBron's lack of shooting prowess makes him iffy when you need to score in the clutch. It's just not a smart thing to have a bad shooter make a clutch shot. Do you think Phil asked Shaq to shoot the three to tie or win or Horry?

Yeah... yeah. Being clutch is about more than just making some big shots. It's about scoring, defending and distributing.
Statistically speaking, Irving hasn't sniffed the top-10 since 2012-13, when the Cavaliers depended almost entirely on his scoring to win games (same reason Thomas is on such an epic run). Irving makes some big shots and undoubtedly has greater range than James, but he's one-dimensional. If I need to score in the clutch, attacking guys like Irving and Thomas is the best opportunity.
James does everything, whether it's bulldozing to the rim, hitting the occasional three, making a masterful pass or blocking a shot. It's why he's better than Irving in almost every way possible. I'd argue that his speedy chase-down block on Iguodala is more impressive than Irving drilling a last-second shot over another bad defensive guard like Curry.
Here; check the stats:
http://www.nbaminer.com/clutch-time-stats/

nastynice
02-09-2017, 01:25 AM
Right, they were definitely making big shots. But to the extent that Kyrie has? Not even Jordan had the same kind of clutch moments his first 5 years in the league.

Kyrie's list of clutch moments (and by the way, that 11-min video doesn't show everything) from a quantitative measure are more numerous at age 24 than any of those guys you listed in their first 5 years in the league. Kobe ends up with quite a bit of clutch shots by the end of his career, but he wasn't totally efficient with it either.

And we don't even have to talk in terms of quality - the game 7 shot was one of the biggest clutch shots in the history of the game. He clutched the **** out of Detroit in the first round of the playoffs too, but people don't really know/remember it.

I'm taking Jordan on a last shot over any person in the history of the game, but is it possible that when Kyrie retires his name is tossed around those discussions too? I say it's possible (which is my only argument).

Yea, can't say for sure. Was just naming some other elite players who had some experience by 24. He's a monster down the stretch tho, he's def one of the clutchest right now

tredigs
02-09-2017, 01:38 AM
Well Brons wild bank 3 (after missing an open layup) made him 3 for his last 32 on game winning 3s. So, double digits are good! 10% and all.

mrblisterdundee
02-09-2017, 12:10 PM
Well Brons wild bank 3 (after missing an open layup) made him 3 for his last 32 on game winning 3s. So, double digits are good! 10% and all.

The "clutch" is defined as the last five minutes, with neither team up by more than five points. In that context this season, James is 12 of 21 from three. Irving is four of 22.
James has an effective field goal percentage in the clutch of 68.2 percent. Irving's is 41.2 percent.
On last-minute field goal attempts, Irving has a slight edge at six of 14 to James' six of 16.

R. Johnson#3
02-09-2017, 12:40 PM
Kyrie is clutch but he's no Reggie Miller.

ewing
02-10-2017, 01:51 AM
Its kind of hard not to when you look at the stats. We are drawn to comparisons, why do you think we have so many arbitrary accomplishments?

4th quarter PER comparisons are like crack for the kids

ewing
02-10-2017, 01:54 AM
TJ MCCONNELL.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/02/09/t-j-mcconnell-clutch-again-lifts-sixers-over-magic-with-game-winner/

you can't have him Bron

http://cavaliers.247sports.com/Bolt/Cavaliers-trade-for-TJ-McConnell-rejected-by-Sixers-50924939

Chronz
02-10-2017, 03:10 PM
4th quarter PER comparisons are like crack for the kids

Well what would you think of someone who's at his most productive in such moments? Timely hooping only applies if you win i guess.

ewing
02-10-2017, 05:45 PM
Well what would you think of someone who's at his most productive in such moments? Timely hooping only applies if you win i guess.

I actually like your guy a lot. He is a great player. The only criticism i have made of him is that since he got the talent he differs too much when it matters most. For awhile it was like he had too many toys. I think last year i remember him taking the lead role a lot more.

Chronz
02-10-2017, 08:51 PM
I actually like your guy a lot. He is a great player. The only criticism i have made of him is that since he got the talent he differs too much when it matters most. For awhile it was like he had too many toys. I think last year i remember him taking the lead role a lot more.

Twas speaking of Kyrie

ewing
02-10-2017, 09:00 PM
Twas speaking of Kyrie

I like Irving too. He is a hell of a player


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