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View Full Version : What Are The Chances That Kevin Durant Passes Lebron and Hakeem On The ATL?



RocketLoc80
02-06-2017, 10:37 AM
If he lets say wins 4 or 5 rings? Does he surpasses those two?

ewing
02-06-2017, 11:22 AM
Maybe we should watch the games first


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Giannis94
02-06-2017, 11:23 AM
Giannis has a better chance. Especially after SPAK sings with the Bucks after he opts out in 2018 for a MLE deal to play with Middleton, Giannis, Maker, JAbari, Broggy.

Vinylman
02-06-2017, 11:35 AM
If he lets say wins 4 or 5 rings? Does he surpasses those two?

How about he wins 1 before wasting our time with a thread like this.

pacofunk64
02-06-2017, 11:36 AM
The dude hasn't even won one yet.

But since this is a "what if" then I would say at his current pace he passes Hakeem but not LBJ.

Hawkeye15
02-06-2017, 11:57 AM
I mean, I can't think of a superstar in their peak whose ring means less tbh. The reasons are self explanatory.

RocketLoc80
02-06-2017, 12:36 PM
I mean, I can't think of a superstar in their peak whose ring means less tbh. The reasons are self explanatory.
But theyll say Lebron did the same thing with Miami

Giannis94
02-06-2017, 12:41 PM
But theyll say Lebron did the same thing with Miami

He did.

tie-breaker in this could be that KD is not a GM and Lebron is essentially a gm-coach-player while KD shuts up and is only a player.

Miltstar
02-06-2017, 12:48 PM
whoops

Hawkeye15
02-06-2017, 01:02 PM
But theyll say Lebron did the same thing with Miami

cept he didn't. He went to be the best player by a longshot, and lead a team that happened to have 2 all star players and role players to chips. He didn't join an in place, all time team, with the current back to back MVP.

Covered this already 100 times. Whatever you want to claim LeBron did, you can multiply by a **** ton to get what Durant did. Durant doesn't even need to be his teams best player. Hell he could not play for 50 games and they still win the west standings.

Any chip he wins, barring GS having massive injuries that force Durant to carry them, don't mean anything for legacy purposes. They are basically like Wade's 2 chips with LeBron. They just pad the resume a little, they don't lead it..

Scoots
02-06-2017, 01:19 PM
KD has a chance with Hakeem, but no chance of LeBron.

RocketLoc80
02-06-2017, 01:23 PM
So youthink KD passes Lebron all time huh

PhillyFaninLA
02-06-2017, 01:30 PM
Giannis has a better chance. Especially after SPAK sings with the Bucks after he opts out in 2018 for a MLE deal to play with Middleton, Giannis, Maker, JAbari, Broggy.

I'm disappointed in you...I thought you believed Giannis was already better than Jordan, better than Pele at Soccer, Nicklaus at Golf, Hawking at physics......

Giannis94
02-06-2017, 01:40 PM
I'm disappointed in you...I thought you believed Giannis was already better than Jordan, better than Pele at Soccer, Nicklaus at Golf, Hawking at physics......

that should be clear if I think Lebron is going to play 5th fiddle on the bucks.

phantasyyy
02-06-2017, 01:40 PM
But theyll say Lebron did the same thing with Miami

That would have been the case in year 1 with Wade being the leader of that team, but they didnt win against Dallas. Year 2-4 it was clear that LeBron was the unquestioned leader and best player byfar. Bron joined a brand new team that was severely lacking in depth and chemistry as opposed to Durant who joined an NBA Champion that had just rattled off a magical season with 73 wins.

If GS does win multiple chips, it is not a given that he will be the best player out of the run as he is pretty much neck and neck with Curry for that nod - though I have him above Curry this season due to his defensive versalitiy and efficient elite offensive numbers.

Then again if those two Miami ring's werent enough, LeBron winning a chip last season down 3-1 cemented his legacy among the greats. There is nothing KD can do to surpass him.

Hakeem is more of a realistic goal, but even then thats a very tall task. His first ring was won with one of the least talented supporting casts in history. Right up there with Rick Barry.

MarkieMark48
02-06-2017, 02:30 PM
So youre basically asking if Durant will retire a top 2 or 3 player? Ima say the chances slim

JAZZNC
02-06-2017, 03:40 PM
Basically 0%.

Saddletramp
02-06-2017, 04:40 PM
He couldn't get it done when it mattered and now that he cowarded out it won't help.

The only way is if he left GS after this year and went to a non contender (Hornets? Magic? Sacramento?) and led them to a half dozen titles. But he won't go someplace like that and even if he did, he won't lead them to multiple titles. When he said that going to GS was the hardest place for him to win, he didn't mean titles, he meant legacy respect.

nastynice
02-06-2017, 08:31 PM
I don't think either of those guys can be passed. Theyre both tier 1 players, imo, they can only be equaled. If dubs win a few titles with kd being a main offensive threat and playing defense how he has been this year, then he could maybe make a push for it. Given how stacked the team is, its kinda like the showtime lakers (winning a chip then getting magic with the #1 pick), will always be remembered as a team first rather than a given player. That'll make it harder

Jamiecballer
02-06-2017, 08:37 PM
Pretty much zippo

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JordansBulls
02-06-2017, 11:27 PM
cept he didn't. He went to be the best player by a longshot, and lead a team that happened to have 2 all star players and role players to chips. He didn't join an in place, all time team, with the current back to back MVP.

Covered this already 100 times. Whatever you want to claim LeBron did, you can multiply by a **** ton to get what Durant did. Durant doesn't even need to be his teams best player. Hell he could not play for 50 games and they still win the west standings.

Any chip he wins, barring GS having massive injuries that force Durant to carry them, don't mean anything for legacy purposes. They are basically like Wade's 2 chips with LeBron. They just pad the resume a little, they don't lead it..

Wade had led a team to a title as well though and then dominated in the playoffs and finals when Lebron cost them a title with Marion holding him down.

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 12:06 AM
LeBron will end up as the 2nd GOAT and possibly 1st depending on who you ask.

Kevin Durant has ZERO chance surpassing that. Think about this: Imagine if LeBron went to the Warriors. Would we even look at him the same?

LeBron
Curry
Klay
Draymond

Sorry, but just think about that in terms of perspective. The sad part is Kevin Durant had a chance to cracking the top ten territory had he not choked a 3-1 lead. It was a terrible chokejob. We would have pummeled the Cavs with our frontcourt and Kyrie does not eat WB like he does to Curry. Again, think about LeBron in the Warriors instead of KD.. then tell me if those rings matter as much as we try to make KD's.

Kings Faithful
02-07-2017, 02:25 AM
Zero. Lebron hurt his legacy a little bit by forming a super team in Miami to get his first ring, but going back to Cleveland and winning in the fashion that he did salvaged him in my eyes. Durant joined a team that already was a super team that has won a championship. Near irredeemable as far as the ATL goes, imo.

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 02:30 AM
Durant joining Warriors is the equivalent of LeBron joining the Celtics when they had their big three.

ewing
02-07-2017, 07:52 AM
LeBron will end up as the 2nd GOAT and possibly 1st depending on who you ask.

Kevin Durant has ZERO chance surpassing that. Think about this: Imagine if LeBron went to the Warriors. Would we even look at him the same?

LeBron
Curry
Klay
Draymond

Sorry, but just think about that in terms of perspective. The sad part is Kevin Durant had a chance to cracking the top ten territory had he not choked a 3-1 lead. It was a terrible chokejob. We would have pummeled the Cavs with our frontcourt and Kyrie does not eat WB like he does to Curry. Again, think about LeBron in the Warriors instead of KD.. then tell me if those rings matter as much as we try to make KD's.

Is he going to get better?

YAALREADYKNO
02-07-2017, 09:50 AM
Durant joining Warriors is the equivalent of LeBron joining the Celtics when they had their big three.

It's worse. The celtics big 3 were at the end of there primes. The warriors star players are in there primes right now

Hawkeye15
02-07-2017, 10:23 AM
Wade had led a team to a title as well though and then dominated in the playoffs and finals when Lebron cost them a title with Marion holding him down.

cool. LeBron was the #1 on the Heat, and by a mile in their title years.

aman_13
02-07-2017, 12:54 PM
The one thing LBJ and KD have in common is that they both looked for an easier way to win. LBJ end up having to take on a much bigger role than he expected but he had the same intentions as KD.

Don't get me wrong, how they went about it is obviously very different, but KD didn't exactly have two other all stars hitting FA at the same time. Not to mention be really close friends and share the same agent.

As for the question, I don't see how he can right now. Maybe he can surpass Hakeem.

ManRam
02-07-2017, 01:04 PM
He did.

LeBron to Miami is not at all the same exact thing as KD going to GSW. Similar? Sure. But let's not kid ourselves. Those Miami teams were mostly pulled together that year. KD joined a 73-win team.

The chances he passes LeBron? Incredibly slim. Hakeem? Slightly less slim but still incredibly slim.

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 01:16 PM
Why do people think that Heat team was an all-time great even WITH LeBron? Partly why Heat were never all-time greats is because Wade+Bosh began sucking it up after the first season. Bosh integrated pretty well but he was certainly not a high caliber player compared to the other teams we've seen. Warriors were all-time great WITHOUT Kevin Durant. Now they're just probably the best team assembled. Wade+Bosh would get swept by last year's Warriors with ease.

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 01:16 PM
LeBron to Miami is not at all the same exact thing as KD going to GSW. Similar? Sure. But let's not kid ourselves. Those Miami teams were mostly pulled together that year. KD joined a 73-win team.

The chances he passes LeBron? Incredibly slim. Hakeem? Slightly less slim but still incredibly slim.

How many more titles does KD need than lebron? I mean if he gets 5+ in the next 9-10 years and the Warriors stay together I would be inclined to take him over Lebron. Lebron is/has dug his own grave by starting the super team trend and then becoming an executive-coach.

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 01:20 PM
How many more titles does KD need than lebron? I mean if he gets 5+ in the next 9-10 years and the Warriors stay together I would be inclined to take him over Lebron. Lebron is/has dug his own grave by starting the super team trend and then becoming an executive-coach.

You make every Giannis fan hate Giannis. Stop with your excessive trolling man. How many more titles does KD need than LeBron? How about go back to OKC and get one and then we can speak about the possibility of it. LeBron on the Warriors would be winning rings as easy as it is taking candy from kids. Super team trend didn't start because of LeBron. super teams were already formed before lebron.. it's just lebron is such a polarizing figure that his name attracts headlines.

aman_13
02-07-2017, 01:24 PM
Why do people think that Heat team was an all-time great even WITH LeBron? Partly why Heat were never all-time greats is because Wade+Bosh began sucking it up after the first season. Bosh integrated pretty well but he was certainly not a high caliber player compared to the other teams we've seen. Warriors were all-time great WITHOUT Kevin Durant. Now they're just probably the best team assembled. Wade+Bosh would get swept by last year's Warriors with ease.

They are an all time great team through. They won 2 championships together and reached the finals every yr together. They also won 27 games in a row. The second longest win streak in NBA history.

Obviously not as deep talent wise as the Warriors or some other teams but that's besides the point.

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 01:28 PM
They were one of all time great team through. They won 2 championships together and reached the finals every yr together. They also won 27 games in a row. The second longest win streak in NBA history.

Obviously not as deep talent wise as the Warriors or some other teams but that's besides my point.

They were only very good because of LeBron, though. Look at the all-time great teams we've seen.

Russell's Celtics
Magic's Lakers
Bird's Celtics
Bad Boy Pistons
Jordan's Bulls
Shaq+Kobe Lakers
Warriors last season and this season
Spurs is tricky but their team were always great so I would include them.

Heat would have been all-time greats had Wade been at his prime but sadly, that wasn't the case. Wade was hobbled after the first year and it just became LeBron carrying them. Heat were just a very good team but they were hardly an all-time great.

aman_13
02-07-2017, 01:34 PM
They were only very good because of LeBron, though. Look at the all-time great teams we've seen.

Russell's Celtics
Magic's Lakers
Bird's Celtics
Bad Boy Pistons
Jordan's Bulls
Shaq+Kobe Lakers
Warriors last season and this season
Spurs is tricky but their team were always great so I would include them.

Heat would have been all-time greats had Wade been at his prime but sadly, that wasn't the case. Wade was hobbled after the first year and it just became LeBron carrying them. Heat were just a very good team but they were hardly an all-time great.

Wade may have not been the same player but he was still really good. I see your point, but we have different definitions of what is considered an time great team. They dominated the league together and the results show that. They probably don't rank high if we start comparing but it's kind of meaningless to compare, because those teams played in different eras. It's a different game now.

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 01:37 PM
You make every Giannis fan hate Giannis. Stop with your excessive trolling man. How many more titles does KD need than LeBron? How about go back to OKC and get one and then we can speak about the possibility of it. LeBron on the Warriors would be winning rings as easy as it is taking candy from kids. Super team trend didn't start because of LeBron. super teams were already formed before lebron.. it's just lebron is such a polarizing figure that his name attracts headlines.

If they wouldnt have traded Harden they would have had one. How about OKC acquired harden, keeps westy and then durant signs back and then we can talk- seeing thats what happened with James? Left Cle, they got Irving, then Lebron and Lebron traded for Klove.

nastynice
02-07-2017, 01:50 PM
You make every Giannis fan hate Giannis. Stop with your excessive trolling man. How many more titles does KD need than LeBron? How about go back to OKC and get one and then we can speak about the possibility of it. LeBron on the Warriors would be winning rings as easy as it is taking candy from kids. Super team trend didn't start because of LeBron. super teams were already formed before lebron.. it's just lebron is such a polarizing figure that his name attracts headlines.

Disagree. People said the same thing about lebron when he went to miami, it didn't hold up. KD is having an mvp caliber year, if he keeps playing like this or even stepping it up for the next few years, then you gotta reevaluate at that time. Outside of two incredibly high usage players in Harden and Westbrook, Durants probably your leading mvp candidate.

Not too bad for someone playing 4th fiddle :)

ManRam
02-07-2017, 02:00 PM
How many more titles does KD need than lebron? I mean if he gets 5+ in the next 9-10 years and the Warriors stay together I would be inclined to take him over Lebron. Lebron is/has dug his own grave by starting the super team trend and then becoming an executive-coach.

It's ridiculous to blame LeBron for something then not blame KD for joining an even better scenario in FA because LeBron "started it".

It's so much more than just counting rings too. There's no magic ring number I can set for the future that he must get to pass LeBron. That's silly. Legacies play themselves out. Only time will tell. This mental exercises are pointless. I will say this though, unless a lot of unforeseen stuff goes down, I don't see how any ring KD gets tops what LeBron did last year in terms of legacy building.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2017, 02:09 PM
How many more titles does KD need than lebron? I mean if he gets 5+ in the next 9-10 years and the Warriors stay together I would be inclined to take him over Lebron. Lebron is/has dug his own grave by starting the super team trend and then becoming an executive-coach.

titles only matter in this argument if you are the one leading your team to them. Otherwise you aren't joining the top 5 ever, where LeBron resides.

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 02:14 PM
titles only matter in this argument if you are the one leading your team to them. Otherwise you aren't joining the top 5 ever, where LeBron resides.

Well KD is leading his team this year.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2017, 02:29 PM
Well KD is leading his team this year.

If KD missed the rest of the year, his team would win the west and be favorites for the chip...

he is part of the machine. He isn't the driver. You can rationalize it all you want, he joined the most stacked team in history, already in place, with a chip in pocket, 2 time current MVP, 3 top 25 players all in their peaks. It's unheard of.

He gets no legacy bump for hopping on a moving train that was already in the lead.

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 03:50 PM
Wade may have not been the same player but he was still really good. I see your point, but we have different definitions of what is considered an time great team. They dominated the league together and the results show that. They probably don't rank high if we start comparing but it's kind of meaningless to compare, because those teams played in different eras. It's a different game now.

They dominated primarily because of one player, though. All-time great teams had more than one player. If you look back at the playoffs and regular season, LeBron was the only player on that team playing consistently and truly dominating. The firepower from that Heat team just doesn't compare to the teams we've seen. Don't get me wrong, they were a really good team but I certainly would not consider them an all-time great.


If they wouldnt have traded Harden they would have had one. How about OKC acquired harden, keeps westy and then durant signs back and then we can talk- seeing thats what happened with James? Left Cle, they got Irving, then Lebron and Lebron traded for Klove.

You mean if KD didn't choke a 3-1 lead? Or how about when KD choked vs the Grizzlies without Westbrook? Last I checked, Westbrook+Ibaka+Adams+Kanter was sufficient enough to win a championship. Dude couldn't hold his own weight and then went to the Warriors so they can do it for him. At least when LeBron did it, he went to an unproven new experiment team. Heat were a trash team when he arrived and he turned them to the best NBA team for four seasons.


Disagree. People said the same thing about lebron when he went to miami, it didn't hold up. KD is having an mvp caliber year, if he keeps playing like this or even stepping it up for the next few years, then you gotta reevaluate at that time. Outside of two incredibly high usage players in Harden and Westbrook, Durants probably your leading mvp candidate.

Not too bad for someone playing 4th fiddle :)

1) The issue is, this isn't the same thing. Why are people equating LeBron's decision to KD's? LeBron going to the Celtics Big Three with Ray Allen, PP, KG, and Rondo is what the era of basketball back then would be looking at. That doesn't even compare when you consider Warriors are ALL at their prime and they won a championship without KD and also have a 2x MVP and two of the all-time GOAT shooters.
2) MVP caliber year by the numbers but KD is getting some incredibly wide open shots because of the team he's in. It's padded inflated scoring numbers because Warriors have way too many weapons. He's far from MVP. Defensively, he hasn't been doing anything different from previous seasons with OKC. It's just he's playing in a better system and has to do less on both ends because of that. He literally ran to a team that beat him because he lost his competitive nature. There's no other explanation. He could have went to the Wizards, Celtics, and plenty of other teams that would have been contenders if he went to them. Instead, he runs to the all-time great NBA team. Cavs or Warriors were the two easy choices in terms of competition and it's clear Durant wanted no part of that. Speaking of which, Durant knew he could not beat LeBron James without the Warriors. That's SAD. What an MVP for ya. How can you be the MVP of a team when that team had a better record without you last season?

valade16
02-07-2017, 05:00 PM
KD currently can't surpass LeBron by simply winning more rings on GS for the same reason Scottie Pippen isn't better than LeBron.

Saddletramp
02-07-2017, 05:09 PM
Why are you guys wasting your breath. These kids obviously have no idea what they're talking about if they think KD could even win the next ten titles with those guys and have a better legacy than Lebron. Let alone just a couple.

Remember, Curry already has one extra title over KD and Curry ain't passing up Lebron in all time rankings, So the rings argument is null and void.

The Warriors can have the legacy of being the best team of all time, but none of their players will go down with the likes of Jordan or Lebron. Ludicrous to think so.

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 05:26 PM
Why are you guys wasting your breath. These kids obviously have no idea what they're talking about if they think KD could even win the next ten titles with those guys and have a better legacy than Lebron. Let alone just a couple.

Remember, Curry already has one extra title over KD and Curry ain't passing up Lebron in all time rankings, So the rings argument is null and void.

The Warriors can have the legacy of being the best team of all time, but none of their players will go down with the likes of Jordan or Lebron. Ludicrous to think so.

If KD wins hte next 10 titles and lebron ends with 3 something tells me he would be viewed >>Lebron. I mean 10>>>>>>> (7 in case you were counting) 3. But what do I know.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2017, 05:42 PM
If KD wins hte next 10 titles and lebron ends with 3 something tells me he would be viewed >>Lebron. I mean 10>>>>>>> (7 in case you were counting) 3. But what do I know.

I assume Bill Russell is your #1 all time?

valade16
02-07-2017, 05:43 PM
If KD wins hte next 10 titles and lebron ends with 3 something tells me he would be viewed >>Lebron. I mean 10>>>>>>> (7 in case you were counting) 3. But what do I know.

Tell that to Sam Jones

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 05:51 PM
I assume Bill Russell is your #1 all time?

We're talking Lebron vs. KD here. In all honesty without trolling I could name about 10 player before 1990 sand 5 of them played on the Bucks title team.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2017, 05:54 PM
We're talking Lebron vs. KD here. In all honesty without trolling I could name about 10 player before 1990 sand 5 of them played on the Bucks title team.

I will put is really simple for you to understand. Winning a title as the main reason, is a lot more important than just being another reason.

Saddletramp
02-07-2017, 06:03 PM
If KD wins hte next 10 titles and lebron ends with 3 something tells me he would be viewed >>Lebron. I mean 10>>>>>>> (7 in case you were counting) 3. But what do I know.

Nope. A legacy isn't all just about titles. Kobe wasn't trying to chase Pippen, he was chasing Jordan.


You seriously have no idea what you're talking about and it's pretty pathetic. Stop while you're miles behind.

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 06:06 PM
I will put is really simple for you to understand. Winning a title as the main reason, is a lot more important than just being another reason.
Lets say the teacher fell sick and allowed lebron to pick groups for a year long group project.

A few years later they do the same thing except this time the same teacher allows KD to do to any group in the class after his group let him down.

You would rather finish second while doing all of the work in a group project instead of splitting up the work equally and finishing first?

No bueno.

Count me out.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2017, 06:11 PM
Lets say the teacher fell sick and allowed lebron to pick groups for a year long group project.

A few years later they do the same thing except this time the same teacher allows KD to do to any group in the class after his group let him down.

You would rather finish second while doing all of the work in a group project instead of splitting up the work equally and finishing first?

No bueno.

Count me out.

nope, you're doing it wrong.

valade16
02-07-2017, 06:35 PM
Lets say the teacher fell sick and allowed lebron to pick groups for a year long group project.

A few years later they do the same thing except this time the same teacher allows KD to do to any group in the class after his group let him down.

You would rather finish second while doing all of the work in a group project instead of splitting up the work equally and finishing first?

No bueno.

Count me out.

Obviously finish first but at the same time, if that exact same group finished first without you nobody can say you were the reason they finished first since they could and did do it without you.

Saddletramp
02-07-2017, 07:57 PM
Didn't think this thread could get any dumber. Boy, was I wrong.

In the last six group projects, there were different groups with different group members but there was one constant; one guy was in the top group or second to top group every time. The groups that he was in were pretty bad before and after he left; an afterthought, really.

The other guy was in some good groups and was even in a top two group one project (falling to the group that had the other guy). He missed a project and one of his main project helpers missed another project but all in all, people thought he should have made more of an impact with the projects. He just wasn't good enough to.

Then, when he sees that he's just not good enough to be the best project worker to get a top finish, he goes to this other project team that's already had a top finish (against a depleted project team where the other guy lost two of his best project worker buddies toward the end of the project). He's just a piece to help with the project, he's not THE piece. He's already admitted it by giving up on his high quality project team and going to this other high quality project team. You can now admit it, too.


It's funny, you don't seem to be pro-Durant or pro-GS, you seem to be pro-Giannis and anti-Lebron (and anti-Embiid, but only because he rivals your Giannis). So your words hold no weight. .

ManRam
02-07-2017, 07:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c

FlashBolt
02-07-2017, 09:03 PM
I used to love Giannis. Reading this dude's post has made me an anti-Giannis fan. It's crazy how that worked out.

Giannis94
02-07-2017, 09:10 PM
I used to love Giannis. Reading this dude's post has made me an anti-Giannis fan. It's crazy how that worked out.

I used to like Lebron. Then I read your posts and combined with the fact that he turned on his city, which rioted, and he became the first player-coach-executive in NBA history and complains about not having playmakers when he has constructed his team with 3 top 20 players. And he's overrated on top of it. It's crazy how that worked out.

Chronz
02-07-2017, 11:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkodTydUR0E

LA_Raiders
02-08-2017, 12:31 AM
He will pass LeBron for sure; 3 to 4 ships max.

ewing
02-08-2017, 12:42 AM
I used to like Lebron. Then I read your posts and combined with the fact that he turned on his city, which rioted, and he became the first player-coach-executive in NBA history and complains about not having playmakers when he has constructed his team with 3 top 20 players. And he's overrated on top of it. It's crazy how that worked out.

fantastic post

Nikeman
02-08-2017, 12:42 AM
I can't believe people are taking this serious..

Durant left to join the Warriors, who were already favored to win the NBA title without him this year. LeBron is not in Miami and they don't even sniff the finals..

I'm not wishing injury upon anyone, but if KD had a season ending injury, the Warriors are still favorites to win. They won 73 games without him lol.. LeBron went to an 8th seeded Heat.

ewing
02-08-2017, 12:46 AM
Obviously finish first but at the same time, if that exact same group finished first without you nobody can say you were the reason they finished first since they could and did do it without you.

i want to finish top 5 and not do any work. on the other hand a like basketball.

ewing
02-08-2017, 12:49 AM
I can't believe people are taking this serious..

Durant left to join the Warriors, who were already favored to win the NBA title without him this year. LeBron is not in Miami and they don't even sniff the finals..

I'm not wishing injury upon anyone, but if KD had a season ending injury, the Warriors are still favorites to win. They won 73 games without him lol.. LeBron went to an 8th seeded Heat.


i think he was brave to take on such a challenge

IKnowHoops
02-08-2017, 02:18 AM
Durant could end up with more rings getting on this team. He's just not as Impactful as Lebron. They are both on my all-time starting five.

PG Lebron
SG Mike
SF Durant
PF Admiral
C Shaq

rhino17
02-08-2017, 02:40 AM
ZERO

By selling out, he will never accomplish what Hakeem did. And Lebron elevated him self a great deal with his ring last year (the only one I am impressed by). Kevin hasn't won one and really hasn't come close, so there is no way in hell he comes close to those 2 guys

nastynice
02-08-2017, 06:22 AM
1) The issue is, this isn't the same thing. Why are people equating LeBron's decision to KD's? LeBron going to the Celtics Big Three with Ray Allen, PP, KG, and Rondo is what the era of basketball back then would be looking at. That doesn't even compare when you consider Warriors are ALL at their prime and they won a championship without KD and also have a 2x MVP and two of the all-time GOAT shooters.
2) MVP caliber year by the numbers but KD is getting some incredibly wide open shots because of the team he's in. It's padded inflated scoring numbers because Warriors have way too many weapons. He's far from MVP. Defensively, he hasn't been doing anything different from previous seasons with OKC. It's just he's playing in a better system and has to do less on both ends because of that. He literally ran to a team that beat him because he lost his competitive nature. There's no other explanation. He could have went to the Wizards, Celtics, and plenty of other teams that would have been contenders if he went to them. Instead, he runs to the all-time great NBA team. Cavs or Warriors were the two easy choices in terms of competition and it's clear Durant wanted no part of that. Speaking of which, Durant knew he could not beat LeBron James without the Warriors. That's SAD. What an MVP for ya. How can you be the MVP of a team when that team had a better record without you last season?

I'm not equating them, but I'm saying people said the same thing about lebron, people were even saying he was gonna be playing second fiddle to wade haha, I legit remember that! But what happened was lebron just took over and clearly was the far and away best player and leader on that team that got two rings, came back to Cleveland and won for the cavs, just a whole bunch of stuff that you can't deny his greatness. KD might do some stuff like that, not necessarily to the same degree as lebron, but just something that no one can deny is great.

There's still much more to be written, curry isn't even signed yet, but given the circumstances I have some optimism he will get there. It's about rings, dynasty, winning. KD didn't join the Warriors cuz of all that stuff you said, he joined because we got lucky enough with the timing of cap jumps that we actually were in position to add am elite player to an elite team, and that could be something to witness. It's just a 3 year deal, so who knows.

It's like the lakers getting magic. I feel magic, worthy, Kareem all get respect, but also everyone recognize they had each other, so factor that into all time lists. That'll prob be something that holds these guys back on lists like all time list or whatever, but I'm ok with that, only list Im worried about is team/championships.

mightybosstone
02-08-2017, 07:51 AM
I don't think he has a chance for either personally. Even if he wins a title or several in Golden State, it will be on a squad that broke the all-time wins record before he ever got there. And with Curry on the team, his alpha dog status will always be in question. Meanwhile, Hakeem won his first title with an atrocious supporting cast and the second with Drexler well past his prime. And Lebron has so clearly been the No. 1 guy on every championship team he's ever been on.

Plus, I just think they're both superior players to Durant. Lebron plays the same position, and I don't think there's a fan or GM of the league who would take peak Durant over peak Lebron. And Hakeem was an all-time top 5 defensive big man while boasting probably the greatest low post skills of any big man in league history.

Statistically, there might be a case, and Durant could win more rings than both guys. But rings have never been the sole barometer of a player's worth.

mightybosstone
02-08-2017, 07:59 AM
I think Durant's best ending spot is in that top 15 range somewhere around guys like West, Moses, Oscar, Dr. J, etc. And I think he has a shot to pass every other Hall of Fame player of the last 20 years except Lebron, Duncan and possibly Kobe. But the fact that he probably isn't the best player on his own team won't do him any favors when we look back on his career in 20 years. Curry has a much better chance to crack the top 10 than Durant does.

mike_noodles
02-08-2017, 08:14 AM
He's got a long way to go. Has to win more than them because of such early and obvious ring chasing.

FlashBolt
02-08-2017, 09:56 AM
I'm not equating them, but I'm saying people said the same thing about lebron, people were even saying he was gonna be playing second fiddle to wade haha, I legit remember that! But what happened was lebron just took over and clearly was the far and away best player and leader on that team that got two rings, came back to Cleveland and won for the cavs, just a whole bunch of stuff that you can't deny his greatness. KD might do some stuff like that, not necessarily to the same degree as lebron, but just something that no one can deny is great.

There's still much more to be written, curry isn't even signed yet, but given the circumstances I have some optimism he will get there. It's about rings, dynasty, winning. KD didn't join the Warriors cuz of all that stuff you said, he joined because we got lucky enough with the timing of cap jumps that we actually were in position to add am elite player to an elite team, and that could be something to witness. It's just a 3 year deal, so who knows.

It's like the lakers getting magic. I feel magic, worthy, Kareem all get respect, but also everyone recognize they had each other, so factor that into all time lists. That'll prob be something that holds these guys back on lists like all time list or whatever, but I'm ok with that, only list Im worried about is team/championships.

All you've proven was that Durant had to join an all-time great team because he couldn't win on a VERY great team that was up 3-1 against the Warriors before Durant disappeared. I know I'm an OKC fan but literally every fan feels this way outside of the Warriors fanbase. Durant joining the Warriors was a total joke and most GM's know it. He would be the MVP now if he had that record on any other team. Why isn't he projected to be? Because everyone knows those numbers and his performance is only due to being on an historic level team even before he got there. They were a better team by record before KD got there. What makes you think he should be MVP? His chances of passing LeBron is over. He might get into the top ten but he does nothing better than LeBron other than score.

Hawkeye15
02-08-2017, 11:22 AM
fantastic post

you would think LeBron kicked your puppy

mightybosstone
02-08-2017, 11:25 AM
you would think LeBron kicked your puppy

I really thought after Lebron brought Cleveland a title that the haters would have no more legs to stand on. But that doesn't seem to matter. How naive of me...

Hawkeye15
02-08-2017, 12:00 PM
I really thought after Lebron brought Cleveland a title that the haters would have no more legs to stand on. But that doesn't seem to matter. How naive of me...

outside of a few outliers, most the all time greats have a large number of haters. Is what it is. If you didn't stay with your franchise, say everything right, pay your taxes, deliver a baby in traffic, and give puppies to orphans, you are a douchebag and nothing you accomplished counts...

krazylegz
02-08-2017, 02:05 PM
If he lets say wins 4 or 5 rings? Does he surpasses those two?

are you high?

Giannis94
02-08-2017, 02:24 PM
What happens when lebron joins the warriors in 2018?

ewing
02-08-2017, 02:37 PM
you would think LeBron kicked your puppy

your just jealous that complimented Giannis and not you

tredigs
02-08-2017, 02:37 PM
All the pontificating from people pretending like they know what the future holds is pretty funny. We have no clue who will step up/get hurt/leave from GS, or what other potential "super teams" are on the horizon.

Just like Bron had ZERO chance to be a GOAT to most after joining Miami, the majority doesn't know wtf the future holds.

valade16
02-08-2017, 02:40 PM
All the pontificating from people pretending like they know what the future holds is pretty funny. We have no clue who will step up/get hurt/leave from GS, or what other potential "super teams" are on the horizon.

Just like Bron had ZERO chance to be a GOAT to most after joining Miami, the majority doesn't know wtf the future holds.

Not a good example because he still has zero chance of being GOAT

Hawkeye15
02-08-2017, 02:48 PM
your just jealous that complimented Giannis and not you

I can compliment myself thank you

europagnpilgrim
02-08-2017, 03:09 PM
KD wont pass neither, KD is a better perimeter shooter and that's about it, add free throws as well

its funny how people on here and afar say rings mean lesser or more, that is a bunch of bs because rings don't mean nothing when evaluating who truly the dominant solo players are, it means you had a team that was strong to compete for titles

and you could make a case for every player with a ring meaning less than the actual value since it took other players to hit key shots to secure those titles or to advance, or injuries taking place to give another team the advantage, rings weigh about a ounce when discussing the truly best players

KD will go down as one of the best players of his era and all time with his current pace of 9-10yrs of doing what he has done but it will be hard for him to crack to the top 10 because the nba has had that many special players to come through and some players like Dr J are not in most top 10 and he was a beast who went to several Finals and was league mvp in two leagues, if that isn't top 10 then I don't know what is

take away the rings for every player and make a top 20-25 list on who was the best on the hardwood and that will pretty much settle the discussion because its clear that when the most dominant winner of all time with 11 rings isn't top 2 then I don't get how a guy with lesser rings can be over him, especially when you are the mvp/anchor/soul for those 11 titles and won 8 in a row

tredigs
02-08-2017, 03:23 PM
All the pontificating from people pretending like they know what the future holds is pretty funny. We have no clue who will step up/get hurt/leave from GS, or what other potential "super teams" are on the horizon.

Just like Bron had ZERO chance to be a GOAT to most after joining Miami, the majority doesn't know wtf the future holds.


Not a good example because he still has zero chance of being GOAT
You will get a far different answer depending on who you ask if it is still possible. And while it would be a much chopper road/worse story, he's still good enough that there is a path to at least make it arguable.

The point is, we have a lot of bs pontificating going on here about people pretending to know the future. A hundred things could happen that continue to seriously elevate his legacy. I don't see a clear path where he's capable of passing Bron, but KD is young/good enough and his game should age well enough that Hakeem is at the very least in play.

valade16
02-08-2017, 03:43 PM
You will get a far different answer depending on who you ask if it is still possible. And while it would be a much chopper road/worse story, he's still good enough that there is a path to at least make it arguable.

The point is, we have a lot of bs pontificating going on here about people pretending to know the future. A hundred things could happen that continue to seriously elevate his legacy. I don't see a clear path where he's capable of passing Bron, but KD is young/good enough and his game should age well enough that Hakeem is at the very least in play.

Obviously a lot can happen and there could be a lot of incredibly unforeseen things that happen to change the outlook, but we are projecting based on the current information. Saying "you never know what might happen" is not really much different than saying don't take tomorrow for granted because you never know what can happen, while technically true, the majority of the 7 Billion people on earth will live to see tomorrow.

In fact, it should be a measure of how unlikely it is that KD surpasses neither that it would take some completely unforeseen thing to happen for him to pass either of them given his current situation. If you're reasoning for why he could is "something crazy may happen", chances are it's more likely than not it doesn't.

ManRam
02-08-2017, 03:52 PM
What's the point of this thread if it's not to "pontificate" about the future? You can't seriously talk about this topic without speculating a ton. So, as I said earlier, this is a pointless mental exercise. I don't think it's likely, but who knows? Maybe Steph gets a career ending injury and KD carries the Warriors to 4 rings in a LeBron-like carrying manner. Maybe he doesn't but KD just fires off 6 of the most absurd individual seasons ever and makes Steph look like a chump. I don't know. And it's stupid to even talk about that ****. It will play out.

But we do know some things...

KD is in his year 28 season, and only once in his 10 years in the league is there an easy argument to be made that he was the best player in the league. What he did in OKC looks worse than what LeBron did in Cleveland. And, again, in the foreseeable future it is hard to see KD winning a ring that looks as good as any of LeBron's, let alone last year's.

So yeah, I think I'm comfortable saying that, at the very least, it is significantly less likely than not that KD passes Lebron...and slightly more likely, but still unlikely, that he passes Hakeem. :shrug:

tredigs
02-08-2017, 04:17 PM
Top 15 for KD feels like the pace he is on, but higher is possible with how great his D has become. As is he would probably crack my top 25.I

valade16
02-08-2017, 04:39 PM
Top 15 for KD feels like the pace he is on, but higher is possible with how great his D has become. As is he would probably crack my top 25.

Off the top of my head KD has almost certainly cracked my Top 25 as well. Top 15 would be very difficult, but he has an outside shot at it.

ManRam
02-08-2017, 04:46 PM
I think KD is one of the 25 best to ever step on the court. We'll see how many guys he can track down...I just don't think, as the thread asks, that he's on an obvious trajectory to topple these two.

mightybosstone
02-08-2017, 04:55 PM
Top 15 for KD feels like the pace he is on, but higher is possible with how great his D has become. As is he would probably crack my top 25.

Yeah I definitely think, as I posted earlier, that top 15 is the right spot for him at his retirement unless he just completely ups his game and does something extraordinary in his career. I think a good comparison is where you think he stands in terms of other all-time greats at the SF position.

I don't think he'll ever surpass Lebron (top 5 easily) as the greatest SF of all-time. And I don't think he'll have the postseason success to surpass Bird (top 10) either for No. 2. But I've got Dr. J at No. 3 somewhere in that top 15-20 discussion. And I think he's definitely on that path to surpass him. After that I've got Pippen somewhere in that top 25 discussion, and you could easily argue that Durant deserves to be higher on any all-time list than him.

After that it's some combination of Hondo, Barry, Baylor and Wilkins, and I couldn't honestly make a strong enough case for any of those guys over KD. I'd like to list Hondo ahead of him because of his career accolades, but then I'd look at his numbers and compare their games on the court, and Durant is just clearly the better player at his peak.

tredigs
02-08-2017, 06:56 PM
All the pontificating from people pretending like they know what the future holds is pretty funny. We have no clue who will step up/get hurt/leave from GS, or what other potential "super teams" are on the horizon.

Just like Bron had ZERO chance to be a GOAT to most after joining Miami, the majority doesn't know wtf the future holds.


What's the point of this thread if it's not to "pontificate" about the future? You can't seriously talk about this topic without speculating a ton. So, as I said earlier, this is a pointless mental exercise. I don't think it's likely, but who knows? Maybe Steph gets a career ending injury and KD carries the Warriors to 4 rings in a LeBron-like carrying manner. Maybe he doesn't but KD just fires off 6 of the most absurd individual seasons ever and makes Steph look like a chump. I don't know. And it's stupid to even talk about that ****. It will play out.

But we do know some things...

KD is in his year 28 season, and only once in his 10 years in the league is there an easy argument to be made that he was the best player in the league. What he did in OKC looks worse than what LeBron did in Cleveland. And, again, in the foreseeable future it is hard to see KD winning a ring that looks as good as any of LeBron's, let alone last year's.

So yeah, I think I'm comfortable saying that, at the very least, it is significantly less likely than not that KD passes Lebron...and slightly more likely, but still unlikely, that he passes Hakeem. :shrug:

My point is that many are brushing aside the notion entirely and already writing his future. A LOT can happen during the next ~6 years of his prime.

Saddletramp
02-08-2017, 08:02 PM
Yeah, but one thing we know DID happen. He quit. I'll never forget that he quit on one of the best teams in the NBA (for years) He couldn't get it done with that group so I doubt he could get it done with any team in the league other than a select few who wouldn't need him anyway. Like the Warriors, Spurs and Cavs.


And before anyone takes the LBJ/Cavs bait for the thousandth time, look at what happened post Lebron with the Cavs (3/4 #1 picks because they were so bad after James left) and what (so far) the Thunder are doing (playoff team with a brighter future). Two totally different situations.

Giannis94
02-08-2017, 08:12 PM
Yeah, but one thing we know DID happen. He quit. I'll never forget that he quit on one of the best teams in the NBA (for years) He couldn't get it done with that group so I doubt he could get it done with any team in the league other than a select few who wouldn't need him anyway. Like the Warriors, Spurs and Cavs.


And before anyone takes the LBJ/Cavs bait for the thousandth time, look at what happened post Lebron with the Cavs (3/4 #1 picks because they were so bad after James left) and what (so far) the Thunder are doing (playoff team with a brighter future). Two totally different situations.

I won't take the bait on the first part of the post but how can you be comping these situations and downgrading the fact that OKC has better management and player evaluators working for them? These situations are similar, which is why Lebron came back to CLE as a player-executive-coach. while he succeeded for a little bit, the Warriors trumped him acquisitions.

Saddletramp
02-08-2017, 08:23 PM
I won't take the bait on the first part of the post but how can you be comping these situations and downgrading the fact that OKC has better management and player evaluators working for them? These situations are similar, which is why Lebron came back to CLE as a player-executive-coach. while he succeeded for a little bit, the Warriors trumped him acquisitions.

The bolded is my point. That's what makes the two situations different. People last summer kept saying that it was the same as LBJ leaving the Cavs, and it wasn't from the sense of what they left AND what they went to.

KD could've kept battling the Spurs, Cavs and Warriors for years, but he gave up. And to me, that directly affects his legacy.

tredigs
02-08-2017, 08:30 PM
All the pontificating from people pretending like they know what the future holds is pretty funny. We have no clue who will step up/get hurt/leave from GS, or what other potential "super teams" are on the horizon.

Just like Bron had ZERO chance to be a GOAT to most after joining Miami, the majority doesn't know wtf the future holds.


The bolded is my point. That's what makes the two situations different. People last summer kept saying that it was the same as LBJ leaving the Cavs, and it wasn't from the sense of what they left AND what they went to.

KD could've kept battling the Spurs, Cavs and Warriors for years, but he gave up. And to me, that directly affects his legacy.

No, the vast majority hold your point of view. But in the end, just as in all non on-court decisions, nobody will end up caring. These things are ALWAYS foot notes to a players actual impact on the floor (after the initial jealousy/hate wears off). As they should be.

Saddletramp
02-08-2017, 08:32 PM
People will remember, but ok. We'll revisit this in 20 years.

FlashBolt
02-08-2017, 10:15 PM
People remember the Mavs series as a reason why James can't surpass Jordan but you're telling me people won't remember KD hopping to the greatest team assembled in the regular season? Why do some of you use examples of "precedence" when this has never been a precedent before? KD going to the Warriors was a new level of stacking. If he's going to surpass LeBron, people will bring that up. You don't become the 2nd GOAT without your **** being called out on.

Giannis94
02-08-2017, 10:21 PM
The bolded is my point. That's what makes the two situations different. People last summer kept saying that it was the same as LBJ leaving the Cavs, and it wasn't from the sense of what they left AND what they went to.

KD could've kept battling the Spurs, Cavs and Warriors for years, but he gave up. And to me, that directly affects his legacy.

The same bolded is what clouds lebrons legacy. He's heen a defacto gm, coach and player all at once. He's literally picked hos players since he left cle. Some of its on goblert, but a lot of it is on him as well

FlashBolt
02-08-2017, 10:31 PM
The same bolded is what clouds lebrons legacy. He's heen a defacto gm, coach and player all at once. He's literally picked hos players since he left cle. Some of its on goblert, but a lot of it is on him as well

wow, so lebron has done all those roles and STILL won a ring? You're complimenting him by saying he's all those things. That's absolutely remarkable. How many players can win a ring let alone do it while being the gm and coach? Picked HOS players? I'm guessing you mean HOF. How about we talk about which Finals team LeBron went up against that DIDN'T have a set of HOF player(s)?

Spurs have Manu, Parker, Duncan, Kawhi.
OKC had Durant, Westbrook, Harden.
Warriors, you know the deal.

Only team that didn't was the mavs and that was cause LeBron choked. I guess you want LeBron to win with Mo Williams before you can actually call him great.. your boy Giannis can't even carry his team through the regular season even though he's putting up a historic season. He's a stat-stuffer with zero results. I was convinced he was great and he still is but why the hell are they losing so much with THAT team? Jabari Parker is better than anything LeBron had the first even seasons. They are losing because Giannis will stat-stuff it up but he does not turn it up a notch the others superstars do.

Jamiecballer
02-08-2017, 10:33 PM
Not a good example because he still has zero chance of being GOAT

bingo. the 40 year old guy who mows my lawn could be the next Shaq as well (because anything can happen) but we all know that he won't.

Saddletramp
02-08-2017, 10:50 PM
The same bolded is what clouds lebrons legacy. He's heen a defacto gm, coach and player all at once. He's literally picked hos players since he left cle. Some of its on goblert, but a lot of it is on him as well

This is the stupidest ****ing thing you've said (and that's really saying something).

FlashBolt
02-08-2017, 10:52 PM
put it this way: Lebron is probably going to end up as the 2nd GOAT and possibly GOAT depending on who you ask and how he ends the rest of his career. If you think Durant even has a chance at surpassing Jordan, you are out of your mind.

tredigs
02-09-2017, 12:04 AM
Loving how animated this thread has made the try-hards of PSD.

Saddletramp
02-09-2017, 01:15 AM
Loving how animated this thread has made the try-hards of PSD.

Love the overinflated egos the Warriors have instilled in some of their fans on a message board filled with strangers. But hey, at least you caught a break in life; too bad it's just something as inconsequential as sports fandom.


Go get 'em, kid.

tredigs
02-09-2017, 01:50 AM
Love the overinflated egos the Warriors have instilled in some of their fans on a messagmide board filled with strangers. But hey, at least you caught a break in life; too bad it's just something as inconsequential as sports fandom.


Go get 'em, kid.

I joined this site 8 years ago to A) talk ball with bosses and B) call out clowns.

You're the latter my man. Nothing has changed from a Warriors standpoint on my front.

Saddletramp
02-09-2017, 03:00 AM
Bosses and clowns, for crying out loud. Bosses and clowns.