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View Full Version : Did the Hawks dupe the Cavs?



Chronz
02-04-2017, 02:15 PM
The Cavs are on a slide that Im hoping has little to do with Korver but the results thus far are abit worrisome. The Hawks meanwhile are going through abit of a resurgence. Sounds ludicrous to suggest such a minuscule trade has caused this shockwave but is it fair to say that Atlanta won the trade?

We all thought Atlanta was jettisoning proven talent for a late pick but the numbers did say hes just been too awful defensively, which was the primary reason for his benching in favor of Thabo. That Dunleavy has actually played better for them is what has made what was once seen as such a win for Cleveland, suddenly debatable. Atlanta was done with Korver. Cleveland was done with Dunleavy. Atlanta got a pick.




Stats Per36 : PTS-AST-ORTG (NET RTG)

Korver
Atlanta: 12.3PTS - 3AST - 110 (-10.6)
Cleveland 13.1PTS - 1.1AST - 114 (-14.6)

Dunleavy
Cleveland 10.4 - 2.0AST - 105 (-9.1)
Atlanta 13.8PTS - 2.3AST - 123 (+0.1)




So 2 part question, who won the trade and who do you see helping their teams more (Dunleavy vs Korver)?

Vee-Rex
02-04-2017, 09:09 PM
Who won the trade? Remains to be seen. I wouldn't say the Hawks duped us since Korver's ceiling with us is much higher than Dunleavy's was, and Mo didn't even play a minute for us this year. The 1st round pick will pretty much be a 2nd round pick.

Ha, but you're right about the timing. It's pretty interesting. We started stinking right when we made the Kyle Korver trade. But the culprit points to other factors and not that trade, despite how bad Korver has been defensively. I think it's telling Korver may be having one of the worst defensive periods of his life as a Cavalier as his defense seemed better in Atlanta this year.

Our slide has more to do with the fact that we have the worst transition defense since the 2013-14 Pelicans, and 6th worst transition defense since 2004-05. Last year our transition defense was nowhere near the best either, but when the playoffs started we catapulted to #1 transition defense and it stayed that way, far ahead of the Spurs at #2.

So we've been either fatigued or lazy. But still, even a lackadaisical, bad defense Cavs team with some injuries (JR's perimeter defense is missed and Love missing games sucks because our ONLY other big men are TT and Frye), along with a new addition in Kyle Korver sprinkled in with some inconsistent player rotations from Lue trying to test new things out, combined with a long roadtrip... managed an 8-8 record in 2017.

We haven't played well, but it's not THAT bad. If you wanna look for bad, turn to face the North at a team that would be 1-9 in their last 10 games if not for a miracle Kyle Lowry buzzer beater against the Pelicans.

Our February should be better, but I'm not expecting anything Warriors/Spurs level. We're waiting for a good trade opportunity along with trade deadline buyouts to add much needed depth to our team, and more time to acclimate Korver + JR's return in March/April should have us golden for the playoffs.

Scoots
02-04-2017, 11:55 PM
Hawks offense is what's best for Dunleavy and Korver ... of course both struggle with Cavs.

Yanks All Day
02-06-2017, 01:00 PM
I mean, I think it's more growing pains than anything. Missing JR Smith has been worse for Cleveland than people originally anticipated. He turned himself into a very good wing defender and had the ability to shoot the lights out of the gym when he got going. Felder and Liggins clearly haven't been able to replicate that production, so more playmaking onus has fallen on LeBron and Kyrie. As a result, Shumpert and Korver are probably playing more minutes in roles they wouldn't on a regular rotation. I'd expect that to change in March or April when JR Smith returns.

Korver is going to be a really good piece in sets where the lineup is LeBron-Kyrie-JR-Korver-Love. It will just take some time to get there. Heck, after starting 0-5 from 3 in his first 3 Cleveland games, he's shooting 46% from beyond the arc since. Cleveland knows that struggling in January and February means absolutely nothing if you're ready for May and June. The Cavs are going to win the East for as long as LeBron wants to stay in Cleveland. You take the good with the bad and drudge through seasons, even when things go sideways.

Cleveland is dealing with JR's hand, Love's achy back, Kyrie's legs, etc. None of these are long-term issues if handled properly. That's why you give players extra days of rest, games off, etc. You sacrifice messing with your rotations and losing games in March for having a rested team when the playoffs roll around. Realistically, no one from the East is beating a healthy Cavs team in the playoffs. The entire season is practice for the Warriors (or Spurs) in the Finals. I doubt anyone is concerned with Korver in the slightest.

PhillyFaninLA
02-06-2017, 01:24 PM
You aren't doing a good comparison...the sole reason for the trade was Korver's 3 point shooting to help create more floor spacing.....you aren't addressing the purpose of the trade in the OP

Bostonjorge
02-09-2017, 02:15 AM
Kover showed today why the Cavs made the move for him. Kover came off of zero screens and had zero plays ran for him yet he exploded. He's showing what we all knew Cleveland was getting. A playoff battle tested X factor. When's he's on, Cleveland is even harder to beat.

Dunlevy is a good player but he don't tip the scales like Kover can.

Yanks All Day
02-16-2017, 12:23 AM
3 weeks post trade and I think the Cavaliers won.

Vee-Rex
02-16-2017, 10:00 AM
In the month of February:

Kyle Korver is 44/70 FG = 62%

Kyle Korver is 30/47 3ptFG = 63%

And the Cavs are 7-1

THANKS CHRONZ! please make a similar thread about the rest of our players :D

Vinylman
02-16-2017, 10:16 AM
Enjoy Korver in the playoffs when teams actually play D

Vee-Rex
02-16-2017, 10:38 AM
Enjoy Korver in the playoffs when teams actually play D

It's definitely a concern. We put the clamps on him 2 straight playoff series. I'm just poking fun at Chronz. :)

ManRam
02-16-2017, 11:25 AM
Enjoy Korver in the playoffs when teams actually play D

He'll still be a help. Everyone on that team now, besides TT and RJ (might not get much PT in the playoffs), can shoot. Even if teams are "actually" defending, them having to respect a guy who's shooting 50% from three makes a difference.

ChiTownPacerFan
02-16-2017, 11:44 AM
Korver is the better shooter, so he naturally helps spread the floor better, which is what the Cavs wanted.

Also, I guarantee that Korver will have at least 1 or 2 huge threes in the playoffs on the way to Cleveland making the finals. Maybe they wouldn't have needed him, but he'll help.

Vinylman
02-16-2017, 12:02 PM
He'll still be a help. Everyone on that team now, besides TT and RJ (might not get much PT in the playoffs), can shoot. Even if teams are "actually" defending, them having to respect a guy who's shooting 50% from three makes a difference.

never said he wouldn't be a "help" but if past playoff performance is indicative of future results people need to significantly temper their expectations

Vee-Rex
02-16-2017, 01:33 PM
never said he wouldn't be a "help" but if past playoff performance is indicative of future results people need to significantly temper their expectations

On the flip side, the Hawks have never had a player in recent years offensively talented as LeBron or Kyrie. We were able to stick JR on Korver and run around a million screens, while shifting the defense in his general direction. It'll be harder for teams to do that when LeBron/Kyrie are attacking.

Korver is proving that he's still as automatic on spot-up shooting as anyone in the league and can put up 20 points easily if open. While it'll be harder to do it in the playoffs (I'm in full agreement with you bro), the potential there is still pretty good if the Cavs can run plays/sets with tons of floor spacing that makes the defense pick their poison. The ceiling with Korver is higher than without.

ewing
02-16-2017, 02:33 PM
never said he wouldn't be a "help" but if past playoff performance is indicative of future results people need to significantly temper their expectations


I expect him to be good. you can tell me i was wrong if he isn't. He wont be this good but he will have impact.

Chronz
02-16-2017, 02:38 PM
In the month of February:

Kyle Korver is 44/70 FG = 62%

Kyle Korver is 30/47 3ptFG = 63%

And the Cavs are 7-1

THANKS CHRONZ! please make a similar thread about the rest of our players :D

Ive been doing the reverse jynx for years man. Sadly I cant make these threads unless your players are performing well beneath expectation to a thread worthy degree.

Chronz
02-16-2017, 02:51 PM
He'll still be a help. Everyone on that team now, besides TT and RJ (might not get much PT in the playoffs), can shoot. Even if teams are "actually" defending, them having to respect a guy who's shooting 50% from three makes a difference.

You're saying RJ cant shoot? Timely poster Ewing insists otherwise.

Im with you tho, Korver can attract attention, the key will be his defense. He can still be a net negative player on this team if thats all he can do. Frye is the same way, he helped Cleveland eviscerate the East, right before the Finals began, Frye was leading NBA history in playoff efficiency IIRC, right up there with Birdman when he was just getting the easiest dunks of his life via LeBron. Against GS tho, its more important to be able to defend in space than beat them up inside. There is no Shaq today to truly brutalize them, no Hakeem. Hell there is no Dwight Howard anymore.

Korver still has alot to prove but I think he has one last run in him. I feel like many Cavs are on their final run of glory.

Vinylman
02-16-2017, 03:11 PM
On the flip side, the Hawks have never had a player in recent years offensively talented as LeBron or Kyrie. We were able to stick JR on Korver and run around a million screens, while shifting the defense in his general direction. It'll be harder for teams to do that when LeBron/Kyrie are attacking.

Korver is proving that he's still as automatic on spot-up shooting as anyone in the league and can put up 20 points easily if open. While it'll be harder to do it in the playoffs (I'm in full agreement with you bro), the potential there is still pretty good if the Cavs can run plays/sets with tons of floor spacing that makes the defense pick their poison. The ceiling with Korver is higher than without.

obviously Korver is a plus for Cleveland... I simply pointing out that he has been known to disappear during the playoffs... are the conditions better for his success in Cleveland? certainly... will it be anything close to what he is putting up now? highly unlikely

ewing
02-17-2017, 12:04 AM
obviously Korver is a plus for Cleveland... I simply pointing out that he has been known to disappear during the playoffs... are the conditions better for his success in Cleveland? certainly... will it be anything close to what he is putting up now? highly unlikely

Agreed.


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europagnpilgrim
02-17-2017, 01:34 AM
the way Korver is shooting as of right now its a win for Cavs

but its not like Korver is going to lose his stroke that he has had since Creighton even after his shaky start when the trade first happened

its going to come down to how well he can defend in the playoffs against teams who have a player who can put pressure on him offensively other than that he will be a factor since he is one of the best distant shooters ever and is on a team that value/shoot the 3 ball significantly

ewing
02-17-2017, 01:46 AM
the way Korver is shooting as of right now its a win for Cavs

but its not like Korver is going to lose his stroke that he has had since Creighton even after his shaky start when the trade first happened

its going to come down to how well he can defend in the playoffs against teams who have a player who can put pressure on him offensively other than that he will be a factor since he is one of the best distant shooters ever and is on a team that value/shoot the 3 ball significantly


sometimes he not going to be heavily depended on or in a situation to succeed but i would be semi-shocked if the Cavs don't make the finals and if Kover doesn't have big moments.

prodigy
02-17-2017, 02:12 PM
Hawks offense is what's best for Dunleavy and Korver ... of course both struggle with Cavs.

How bout now?

cavs are 7-1 in Feb and korver is putting up some of his best numbers in years lol.

Cavs won this trade. But neither team took advantage of the other.

ewing
02-18-2017, 12:06 AM
Kover is a knock down shooter. He will have games where he gets looks and is huge and he will have games where he doesn't. They don't need 18 a night from him. A 6 three game here and there is big though. Like i said in another post i would be surprised if Kover doesn't have his moments

FlashBolt
02-18-2017, 08:21 PM
Why were some of you even surprised at the Cavs losing? It was just a terrible month where things didn't go their way. Most of the games they lost were literally due to one bad possession. It was that close. Korver was getting into the system and with Love rumors, it was just weird. I watched every Cavs game (i think) since Korver joined and though their defense struggles, he's been trying. He's having the best shooting spree by % and minimum attempts that I've seen.