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View Full Version : Replace MJ's production with Similar Players. Is he still "Greatest of All Time"?



Giannis94
01-31-2017, 12:02 PM
So over a few threads this past week, there has been discussion(s) that have implied that maybe MJ had benefitted massively from his teammates. I wanted to take a non-joking look at that.

I'm not really sure how to set up the scenario but if you replace MJ with a "similar" player his the teams he played on, do they exeperience the same amount, more, or comparable success?

Another way to look at it is if you put MJ on recent Final contending teams, does he lead to a different or similar result?

1.) So if you replaced MJ with Kobe would the Lakers have 4 in a row? Or if you have Lebon replaced with MJ on his recent finals teams, would MJ have a better or worse record compared to Lebrons 3 Title Wins and 4 Title Losses?

2.) If you put a similar combination of players on MJ's teams, would he have won at least 6 titles?


As far as evaluating if you compared Shaq and Mj I guess the easiest way to find 2 similar players would be to add their WinShare (I assume its similar to WAR in baseball? Good on paper but also flawed once you dig into it?).


So for this, I used WinShare in prime years and looked at his teammates prime years win share.
Assume for this that instead of having Scottie Pippen for 3 years, you have him 6 and replace his and MJ production of 29.76 (rounded to 36).

So this is where it gets interesting:

MJ and Scottie have 29.76 Prime WinShare combined
Kobe and Lebron have 30.34.

That is close enough. So assume you have the same other 3 teammates. What tandem would you take.

I also have the calculations done for the majority contributors on MJ's team in prime years using my judgement, that were on at least 3+ of his title teams.

All #'s taken from Baskeball Reff.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-H1RUIwn-znNk5mNHNweHhNMjg/view?usp=sharing


What do you guys think?

LoveCaliFan
01-31-2017, 12:54 PM
Yes. 37ppg is all you have to say to yourself, then say 6 championships, then say all defensive team 10+ times, then say, playoff leader in ppg, then say 50%fg shooter career as a shooting guard, etc....Hell yeah he's the greatest. Also, ask yourself. What if he didn't retire twice? If that doesn't convince you, then say JORDAN''S...Biggest sports icon ever....

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 01:18 PM
MJ switched to baseball at the peak of his career because he was too good for the league, Lebron begs for all the help he can get just to squeeze out a ring or two. That should tell you enough about who the GOAT is.

Giannis94
01-31-2017, 01:26 PM
MJ switched to baseball at the peak of his career because he was too good for the league, Lebron begs for all the help he can get just to squeeze out a ring or two. That should tell you enough about who the GOAT is.

valid point.

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 01:48 PM
valid point.

I don't know why people have such a hard time admitting that LBJ simply has not lived up to his potential and all the hype. Probably the same reason he still can't admit it himself. I'm not saying he's not an all time great, but I honestly believe that Giannis is going to leave a greater legacy, I'm with you on that one.

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 01:54 PM
I don't know why people have such a hard time admitting that LBJ simply has not lived up to his potential and all the hype. Probably the same reason he still can't admit it himself. I'm not saying he's not an all time great, but I honestly believe that Giannis is going to leave a greater legacy, I'm with you on that one.

It's going to be tough considering Giannis isn't better than LeBron at... well... anything... and hasn't accomplished...well...anything. But good luck.

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 01:55 PM
Yes. 37ppg is all you have to say to yourself, then say 6 championships, then say all defensive team 10+ times, then say, playoff leader in ppg, then say 50%fg shooter career as a shooting guard, etc....Hell yeah he's the greatest. Also, ask yourself. What if he didn't retire twice? If that doesn't convince you, then say JORDAN''S...Biggest sports icon ever....

Yeah the OP is such a rambling incoherent post with like 5 different questions that the only response is "Yes. MJ is the goat."

ldawg
01-31-2017, 02:03 PM
Yep best ever.

ldawg
01-31-2017, 02:04 PM
How he did it is even bigger than the numbers.

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 02:09 PM
How he did it is even bigger than the numbers.

+1

Giannis94
01-31-2017, 02:15 PM
It's going to be tough considering Giannis isn't better than LeBron at... well... anything... and hasn't accomplished...well...anything. But good luck.

Not true, but the NFL Mock has started and I don't want to get banned so I'll sip my tea on this one.You are wrong, though.

ewing
01-31-2017, 02:19 PM
there isn't a similar player to replace him with

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 02:21 PM
Not true, but the NFL Mock has started and I don't want to get banned so I'll sip my tea on this one.You are wrong, though.

we have similar personalities, you are not wrong my friend, but shoving your opinion down people's throat is not going to help you. Sip your tea and be peaceful! I respect you.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 02:27 PM
MJ switched to baseball at the peak of his career because he was too good for the league, Lebron begs for all the help he can get just to squeeze out a ring or two. That should tell you enough about who the GOAT is.

you sure he left the NBA because he was too good? Might have been another reason....maybe one that got him in trouble with the wrong people...

Jordan is the GOAT, for many reasons. His front office got him the right help just as he was heading into his peak, and kept his roster support at a chip level for eternity. Jordan himself did what was necessary to keep his legacy where it was, and ended up. But let's not act like a few lucky scenarios didn't roll his way as well.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 02:28 PM
I don't know why people have such a hard time admitting that LBJ simply has not lived up to his potential and all the hype. Probably the same reason he still can't admit it himself. I'm not saying he's not an all time great, but I honestly believe that Giannis is going to leave a greater legacy, I'm with you on that one.

LeBron didn't live up to his potential? Top 3 ever when done (top 5-8 now), isn't living up to his potential?

Yikes

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 02:28 PM
there isn't a similar player to replace him with

we should pair MJ with Cartwright, and see if there are any duo's that can take them down

valade16
01-31-2017, 02:29 PM
Not true, but the NFL Mock has started and I don't want to get banned so I'll sip my tea on this one.You are wrong, though.

Just curious, but what skill do you think Giannis is better than LeBron at?

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 03:25 PM
Just curious, but what skill do you think Giannis is better than LeBron at?

For starters he's better at being 6'11" ;)

Giannis94
01-31-2017, 03:26 PM
Just curious, but what skill do you think Giannis is better than LeBron at?

You will see when he retires in 15-20 years. It is simply unfair to make a comparrison ATM. And in fear of being trolled, I will again sip my tea. Send me a PM when he retires.

Chronz
01-31-2017, 03:43 PM
LeBron didn't live up to his potential? Top 3 ever when done (top 5-8 now), isn't living up to his potential?

Yikes
Talk About insane expectations.

Giannis94
01-31-2017, 03:44 PM
Talk About insane expectations.

I dslike Lebron but you can't fault him for his first go around with the Cavs. thats on Gilbert.

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 03:48 PM
LeBron didn't live up to his potential? Top 3 ever when done (top 5-8 now), isn't living up to his potential?

Yikes

They sold him as the greatest to ever play, he's not even close to that IMO. If I was starting a team from scratch and everyone is a healthy rookie there is a long list of players I would take over Lebron

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Kareem
Hakeem
D-Rob
Duncan
Iverson
Kobe
Russell
Garnett
Curry
Durant
Oscar
Malone
Malone
Dirk
Barkley
West
Maravich
Pippen
Dr. J
Ewing
Isiah
Rodman
Drexler
Frazier
Hayes
Payton
King
Worthy
Hill
McGrady
Webber
Parker
Mutumbo
Ming
Kemp
Giannis
Harden
Westbrook
Cousins
Embiid
Towns
Porzingas
Wade
Carter
Penny
Stockton
Nash
Kyrie
J. Butler
Draymond
Paul George
AD
Kawhii
CP3
Pierce
Artest
Simmons
Ginobli
Bowen
Kidd
Reed
Wilkins
Allen
Dantley
McGuinness
Wallace
Hudson
Cooper
Amare
Sheed
Grammama
Arenas
MRR
World B. Free
Starbury
Baron Davis
Lamar Odom
Francis
Sprewell
Sampson
Finley
Stackhouse
K-Mart
Rice
C. Butler
Rose
Jay Williams
Marciulionis
Derozan
Lowry
Antonio Davis

You're entitled to your own opinion but I'm not gonna put much stock into it. Plain and simple I wouldn't want Lebron on my team.

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 04:16 PM
I would need to quit my job and put my kids up for adoption to be able to give an appropriate response to that list.

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 04:41 PM
I would need to quit my job and put my kids up for adoption to be able to give an appropriate response to that list.

I'm not saying they are all better players, but if I picked Lebron it would no longer be my team, I would be at his mercy to make bad decisions. I'd have the refs and the commissioner on my side, but I've never been much of a cheater.

valade16
01-31-2017, 04:49 PM
You will see when he retires in 15-20 years. It is simply unfair to make a comparrison ATM. And in fear of being trolled, I will again sip my tea. Send me a PM when he retires.

I mean those are two different things aren't they? I'm asking about the skills Giannis currently has vs the skills LeBron currently has.

I'm not going to say Giannis will never possess a skill superior to any of LeBron's because how can I possibly know that? That's in the future.

KoB said Giannis is not better than LeBron at anything and you said you disagree. I took that to mean currently. I was just curious what skill you think he is better than LeBron at?

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 04:54 PM
Talk About insane expectations.

He came into the league with the hype that he was as good or better than MJ. I didn't put those expectations on him

FlashBolt
01-31-2017, 04:58 PM
Some of you guys swear Jordan could walk on water and then turn your pee into a bottle of Henny.. Do some of you guys blatantly ignore that he wasn't winning a single thing for seven or so years? Giannis leaving a better legacy than LeBron? LMFAO. LeBron is probably going to be the 2nd GOAT. Unless you're saying his potential could've been the GOAT #1, then you would have a point. But none of us expected him to be at this level. I remember they were saying he would be lucky to be as good as T-Mac at that point. Giannis is a very good player but his team should be doing much better than they are. With the improvement of Jabari, Bucks had no excuse not to be a top five team in the East. Giannis needs to do more offensively and stop stat-padding. I watched a few games of his lately and he doesn't take over when the game relies on him to do so. It's come to the point where I think Bucks are more comfortable having Jabari close out the game.

FlashBolt
01-31-2017, 04:59 PM
He came into the league with the hype that he was as good or better than MJ. I didn't put those expectations on him

His career isn't even over yet... settle down, child. Dude has 5-6 more years and you're already claiming he hasn't lived up to his potential.. Yeah, cause people were saying he could be as good or better than MJ before he even played a college let alone NBA game.. stop your hate. It's SAD.

cmellofan15
01-31-2017, 05:08 PM
They sold him as the greatest to ever play, he's not even close to that IMO. If I was starting a team from scratch and everyone is a healthy rookie there is a long list of players I would take over Lebron

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Kareem
Hakeem
D-Rob
Duncan
Iverson
Kobe
Russell
Garnett
Curry
Durant
Oscar
Malone
Malone
Dirk
Barkley
West
Maravich
Pippen
Dr. J
Ewing
Isiah
Rodman
Drexler
Frazier
Hayes
Payton
King
Worthy
Hill
McGrady
Webber
Parker
Mutumbo
Ming
Kemp
Giannis
Harden
Westbrook
Cousins
Embiid
Towns
Porzingas
Wade
Carter
Penny
Stockton
Nash
Kyrie
J. Butler
Draymond
Paul George
AD
Kawhii
CP3
Pierce
Artest
Simmons
Ginobli
Bowen
Kidd
Reed
Wilkins
Allen
Dantley
McGuinness
Wallace
Hudson
Cooper
Amare
Sheed
Grammama
Arenas
MRR
World B. Free
Starbury
Baron Davis
Lamar Odom
Francis
Sprewell
Sampson
Finley
Stackhouse
K-Mart
Rice
C. Butler
Rose
Jay Williams
Marciulionis
Derozan
Lowry
Antonio Davis

You're entitled to your own opinion but I'm not gonna put much stock into it. Plain and simple I wouldn't want Lebron on my team.

This is so beyond idiotic its actually hilarious

FlashBolt
01-31-2017, 05:10 PM
This is so beyond idiotic its actually hilarious

His act would have worked if he wasn't so blatantly terrible at lying. I wonder if he still thinks he's fooling us...

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 05:14 PM
His act would have worked if he wasn't so blatantly terrible at lying. I wonder if he still thinks he's fooling us...

name calling is what my nieces and nephews do when they don't have anything valid to say, to call me a child only shows your immaturity. I'm not lying, I have an opinion that you disagree with. If you actually believe I would draft Lebron James if given the opportunity than you clearly don't know me.

FlashBolt
01-31-2017, 05:19 PM
name calling is what my nieces and nephews do when they don't have anything valid to say, to call me a child only shows your immaturity. I'm not lying, I have an opinion that you disagree with. If you actually believe I would draft Lebron James if given the opportunity than you clearly don't know me.

When did I name-call you? Maybe your nieces and nephews should stay away from you because you clearly are mental. Saying you are lying is not name-calling. If you truly would take Stephon Marbury over LeBron James, you are:

1) Clearly not mentally capable of thinking.
2) Flat-out hate LeBron.

There is no other answer. I'm sorry if you think I offended you but no one here cares about your opinion when it is as terrible as it is. That's not even an opinion anymore. Not even Marbury's own kids would take Marbury over LeBron.

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 05:52 PM
When did I name-call you? Maybe your nieces and nephews should stay away from you because you clearly are mental.

There is no other answer. I'm sorry if you think I offended you but no one here cares about your opinion when it is as terrible as it is.

You're still name calling lol... I'm not offended don't worry, I couldn't give 2 ***** about your opinion

JAZZNC
01-31-2017, 06:02 PM
You're still name calling lol... I'm not offended don't worry, I couldn't give 2 ***** about your opinion

But yet you keep responding....

You look pretty bad here, maybe you should just stop....but you won't.

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 06:07 PM
But yet you keep responding....

You look pretty bad here, maybe you should just stop....but you won't.

I'm bored bro, I sometimes like to bash Lebron in my spare time, why don't you worry about your own hobbies? I don't know you, why would I care what you think of me?

papipapsmanny
01-31-2017, 06:14 PM
Some of you guys swear Jordan could walk on water and then turn your pee into a bottle of Henny.. Do some of you guys blatantly ignore that he wasn't winning a single thing for seven or so years? Giannis leaving a better legacy than LeBron? LMFAO. LeBron is probably going to be the 2nd GOAT. Unless you're saying his potential could've been the GOAT #1, then you would have a point. But none of us expected him to be at this level. I remember they were saying he would be lucky to be as good as T-Mac at that point. Giannis is a very good player but his team should be doing much better than they are. With the improvement of Jabari, Bucks had no excuse not to be a top five team in the East. Giannis needs to do more offensively and stop stat-padding. I watched a few games of his lately and he doesn't take over when the game relies on him to do so. It's come to the point where I think Bucks are more comfortable having Jabari close out the game.

Let's see He won ROY his first year and took the Bulls to the playoffs.

Then for the next 6 seasons he only lost to the Celtics and Pistons (Teams that Lebron has never come close to facing talent wise in the East he plays in).

Those same 6 seasons after his rookie year included two trips to the Easter Conference finals, an MVP and a DPOY.

Then you factor the next 8 years of time in general, the jordan brand and what he did for Nike... yeah he essentially was above the sport itself

Giannis94
01-31-2017, 06:39 PM
I mean those are two different things aren't they? I'm asking about the skills Giannis currently has vs the skills LeBron currently has.

I'm not going to say Giannis will never possess a skill superior to any of LeBron's because how can I possibly know that? That's in the future.

KoB said Giannis is not better than LeBron at anything and you said you disagree. I took that to mean currently. I was just curious what skill you think he is better than LeBron at?
I thought you said MJ. My bad. On mobile will respond later.
Side note:
Looks like someone else has taken over troll of the NBA forum lol

europagnpilgrim
01-31-2017, 06:40 PM
MJ switched to baseball at the peak of his career because he was too good for the league, Lebron begs for all the help he can get just to squeeze out a ring or two. That should tell you enough about who the GOAT is.


I think he switched to baseball because he was about to give the league a serious black eye with his gambling addiction and hanging around those street thug types and owing them big money from losing those bets, that would have killed his image and would have made the 'be like mike' campaign look like the biggest or one of the biggest jokes in marketing/promo history

Jordan cried like hell to the refs/media about Bad Boys beating him up, Stern made sure he got the protection he needed once he broke through after 6yrs, Jordan won when the league expanded and the other dynasties faded away so he didn't need to beg for help since they were already on deck taking the Pistons 7 games the year prior to breaking through

the best player and most dominant ever in a landslide is Wilt Big Dipper Norman Chamberlain, that should tell you enough about that right here

had they kept track of blocks he would have the most ever 70/60/50/40pt triple doubles by miles, nobody could never be as dominant as that, ever

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 06:40 PM
I thought you said MJ. My bad. On mobile will respond later.
Side note:
Looks like someone else has taken over troll of the NBA forum lol

you were just keeping my seat warm hahaha I come and go as I please. The people who think anything they post on here actually has any real life value are the real suckers lol. I also have to take back saying I respect you, seeing how quick you are to jump on side with the people that were bashing you shows your true character

Chronz
01-31-2017, 06:56 PM
He came into the league with the hype that he was as good or better than MJ. I didn't put those expectations on him

Yeah, name another player with those expectations who's come as close. You cant for the simple reason that nobody was ever as hopeful about a prospect. You're basically punishing LeBron for being a phenom the likes of which we've rarely, if ever, seen.

You remind of my friend who keeps telling me that Kobe came closer to realizing and maximizing his potential than Shaq did. And I keep telling him, cool story bro, Ill take the SUPERIOR PLAYER who gives MY TEAM, the BEST chance of WINNING.

LeBron doesn't have to apoligize for falling short of becoming the next MJ when MANY (not I) consider him to be the guy to come the closest of matching him given their situations.

Mugsey Bogues must be your hero tho, I feel like you would take him over Kobe/LeBron simply because he did more with his diminutive size. Congrats bro, enjoy the sympathy, Ill take the impact.

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 07:09 PM
Yeah, name another player with those expectations who's come as close. You cant for the simple reason that nobody was ever as hopeful about a prospect. You're basically punishing LeBron for being a phenom the likes of which we've rarely, if ever, seen.

You remind of my friend who keeps telling me that Kobe came closer to realizing and maximizing his potential than Shaq did. And I keep telling him, cool story bro, Ill take the SUPERIOR PLAYER who gives MY TEAM, the BEST chance of WINNING.

LeBron doesn't have to apoligize for falling short of becoming the next MJ when MANY (not I) consider him to be the guy to come the closest of matching him given their situations.

Mugsey Bogues must be your hero tho, I feel like you would take him over Kobe/LeBron simply because he did more with his diminutive size. Congrats bro, enjoy the sympathy, Ill take the impact.

I don't think you get it lol, I'm clearly trolling and you guys are all feeding me haha. I don't give a **** what any of you think. Everytime I try to have an actual basketball conversation with you dodos I get bored with your generic responses. None of you could actually teach me anything about basketball and I really don't care if I get banned from this ***** site

Giannis94
01-31-2017, 07:18 PM
you were just keeping my seat warm hahaha I come and go as I please. The people who think anything they post on here actually has any real life value are the real suckers lol. I also have to take back saying I respect you, seeing how quick you are to jump on side with the people that were bashing you shows your true character

I have to play nice untl the NFL Mock is over.

JAZZNC
01-31-2017, 07:30 PM
I'm bored bro, I sometimes like to bash Lebron in my spare time, why don't you worry about your own hobbies? I don't know you, why would I care what you think of me?

The fact that your "hobbies" include bashing LeBron shows how sad your life is guy haha!! And don't you worry, I spend a lot more time on my hobbies than I do a stupid sports forum that's nothing but trolls and 3 or 4 guys who (think they) know everything about everything.

cmellofan15
01-31-2017, 11:06 PM
I don't think you get it lol, I'm clearly trolling and you guys are all feeding me haha. I don't give a **** what any of you think. Everytime I try to have an actual basketball conversation with you dodos I get bored with your generic responses. None of you could actually teach me anything about basketball and I really don't care if I get banned from this ***** site

So because you can't construct a coherent argument you resort to trolling...? Fair enough. At least you can admit to incompetency.

More-Than-Most
02-01-2017, 12:00 AM
I don't know why people have such a hard time admitting that LBJ simply has not lived up to his potential and all the hype. Probably the same reason he still can't admit it himself. I'm not saying he's not an all time great, but I honestly believe that Giannis is going to leave a greater legacy, I'm with you on that one.

might be the dumbest thing i have read... he is a top 5 player and will likely be top 3 when all is said and done... how the hell is that not living up to the hype? Lebron is at fault for the mavs series... that being said unlike Jordan the majority of the time he has entered the finals he wasnt the favorite... Jordan had stacked teams for every finals run and did not win until he got pippen and all that talent... the cavs or heat without lebron wouldnt sniff 45 wins let alone damn near 60 like the bulls did.

More-Than-Most
02-01-2017, 12:02 AM
They sold him as the greatest to ever play, he's not even close to that IMO. If I was starting a team from scratch and everyone is a healthy rookie there is a long list of players I would take over Lebron

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Kareem
Hakeem
D-Rob
Duncan
Iverson
Kobe
Russell
Garnett
Curry
Durant
Oscar
Malone
Malone
Dirk
Barkley
West
Maravich
Pippen
Dr. J
Ewing
Isiah
Rodman
Drexler
Frazier
Hayes
Payton
King
Worthy
Hill
McGrady
Webber
Parker
Mutumbo
Ming
Kemp
Giannis
Harden
Westbrook
Cousins
Embiid
Towns
Porzingas
Wade
Carter
Penny
Stockton
Nash
Kyrie
J. Butler
Draymond
Paul George
AD
Kawhii
CP3
Pierce
Artest
Simmons
Ginobli
Bowen
Kidd
Reed
Wilkins
Allen
Dantley
McGuinness
Wallace
Hudson
Cooper
Amare
Sheed
Grammama
Arenas
MRR
World B. Free
Starbury
Baron Davis
Lamar Odom
Francis
Sprewell
Sampson
Finley
Stackhouse
K-Mart
Rice
C. Butler
Rose
Jay Williams
Marciulionis
Derozan
Lowry
Antonio Davis

You're entitled to your own opinion but I'm not gonna put much stock into it. Plain and simple I wouldn't want Lebron on my team.

never-mind about what i said in the previous post... i just seen this post.. i take back what i said because this is infact worse

Giannis94
02-01-2017, 12:16 AM
So because you can't construct a coherent argument you resort to trolling...? Fair enough. At least you can admit to incompetency.
The cardinal sin of trolling: you suck if you have to state you are trolling.

Miltstar
02-01-2017, 07:44 AM
So because you can't construct a coherent argument you resort to trolling...? Fair enough. At least you can admit to incompetency.

blah blah blah, nah I just realize most of you don't understand a word I say so it's pointless trying to talk to you. Every post I make someone tries to come at me with some nonsense it gets tiresome. I'm not much for arguing with pleebs I'd rather just see you make fools of yourselves

Miltstar
02-01-2017, 07:51 AM
shows how sad your life is guy haha!!

If it makes you feel better about yourself think whatever you want lol, but those who feel the need to put down others to feel better about themselves have a lot more issues than I do.

cmellofan15
02-01-2017, 12:03 PM
blah blah blah, nah I just realize most of you don't understand a word I say so it's pointless trying to talk to you. Every post I make someone tries to come at me with some nonsense it gets tiresome. I'm not much for arguing with pleebs I'd rather just see you make fools of yourselves

oh yeah....we're the fools LMAO

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 12:03 PM
They sold him as the greatest to ever play, he's not even close to that IMO. If I was starting a team from scratch and everyone is a healthy rookie there is a long list of players I would take over Lebron

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Kareem
Hakeem
D-Rob
Duncan
Iverson
Kobe
Russell
Garnett
Curry
Durant
Oscar
Malone
Malone
Dirk
Barkley
West
Maravich
Pippen
Dr. J
Ewing
Isiah
Rodman
Drexler
Frazier
Hayes
Payton
King
Worthy
Hill
McGrady
Webber
Parker
Mutumbo
Ming
Kemp
Giannis
Harden
Westbrook
Cousins
Embiid
Towns
Porzingas
Wade
Carter
Penny
Stockton
Nash
Kyrie
J. Butler
Draymond
Paul George
AD
Kawhii
CP3
Pierce
Artest
Simmons
Ginobli
Bowen
Kidd
Reed
Wilkins
Allen
Dantley
McGuinness
Wallace
Hudson
Cooper
Amare
Sheed
Grammama
Arenas
MRR
World B. Free
Starbury
Baron Davis
Lamar Odom
Francis
Sprewell
Sampson
Finley
Stackhouse
K-Mart
Rice
C. Butler
Rose
Jay Williams
Marciulionis
Derozan
Lowry
Antonio Davis

You're entitled to your own opinion but I'm not gonna put much stock into it. Plain and simple I wouldn't want Lebron on my team.

hahahaha

well, the goal is to win. You clearly have other goals

MJ
KAJ

those are the only 2 I would select without hesitation to build a team around over LeBron.

cmellofan15
02-01-2017, 12:04 PM
If it makes you feel better about yourself think whatever you want lol, but those who feel the need to put down others to feel better about themselves have a lot more issues than I do.

Says the guy who continuously bashes a nba player that he's never met before...

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 12:05 PM
name calling is what my nieces and nephews do when they don't have anything valid to say, to call me a child only shows your immaturity. I'm not lying, I have an opinion that you disagree with. If you actually believe I would draft Lebron James if given the opportunity than you clearly don't know me.

you would make a fine GM

Miltstar
02-01-2017, 12:14 PM
you would make a fine GM

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Miltstar
02-01-2017, 12:14 PM
Says the guy who continuously bashes a nba player that he's never met before...

There is a difference, I'm not a role model to millions of youth.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 12:23 PM
There is a difference, I'm not a role model to millions of youth.

you are going to be bashed, because you don't use basketball talent, literally the single most important aspect of winning a basketball game, when pulling players.

Throwing countless names over one of the top 1-2 most talented players in history, whose impact is also top 1-2, just won't get you a lot of votes of confidence. Something that doesn't bother you, so cheers.

But please understand, you are just dead wrong when it comes to evaluating basketball impact, when it comes to the ultimate goal of winning. Whatever expectations you had for LeBron, clearly didn't have anything to do with W/L's on the court, or individual production is all.

Miltstar
02-01-2017, 01:02 PM
But please understand, you are just dead wrong when it comes to evaluating basketball impact.

Or maybe you just don't understand the value of teamwork.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 01:04 PM
Or maybe you just don't understand the value of teamwork.

Pardon me if I don't care to take basketball advice from someone who would start a team with Antonio Davis over LeBron James.

valade16
02-01-2017, 01:07 PM
Or maybe you just don't understand the value of teamwork.

Or maybe you over estimate it? LeBron won 3 titles, so either superior talent > teamwork or LeBron actually has teamwork no?

Miltstar
02-01-2017, 01:17 PM
Pardon me if I don't care to take basketball advice from someone who would start a team with Antonio Davis over LeBron James.

I'm not asking anyone to take my advice, you can't teach a sheep not to be a sheep. You are free to think as you may.

In my eyes Lebron is a team cancer and the only reason he's won anything is because he's cut every corner and been given every advantage. I'm sorry those are the morals you want to teach your children. I have a different set of values.

Chronz
02-01-2017, 01:42 PM
There is a difference, I'm not a role model to millions of youth.
Don't sell yourself short buddy. I'm sure plenty look up to you. What with how easily you abandon your arguments and expertly troll, they making a statue of you some day

Miltstar
02-01-2017, 01:44 PM
Don't sell yourself short buddy. I'm sure plenty look up to you. What with how easily you abandon your arguments and expertly troll, they making a statue of you some day

I appreciate the respect but I don't see it happening. I don't get the point in arguing with people that don't agree with me. They can feel whatever type of way they want to feel it really has no effect on me.

I'm not sure what you're talking about abandoning my arguments though, if you haven't noticed my stance is still the same despite all the name calling.

Shammyguy3
02-01-2017, 02:30 PM
I'm not asking anyone to take my advice, you can't teach a sheep not to be a sheep. You are free to think as you may.

In my eyes Lebron is a team cancer and the only reason he's won anything is because he's cut every corner and been given every advantage. I'm sorry those are the morals you want to teach your children. I have a different set of values.

What corners did Lebron cut? What advantage has he been given? And perhaps most importantly who do you think GAVE him those advantages? You said in an earlier post that Lebron is a cheater. How? I loathe Lebron, but you're way overboard.


As far as the thread: swap MJ with Lebron, Lebron has 8 rings because Lebron wouldn't have retired. MJ would probably have the same number as Lebron if he was put on the same CLE/MIA/CLE teams. I don't think there is another player of similar production that an argument can be made.

valade16
02-01-2017, 02:36 PM
What corners did Lebron cut? What advantage has he been given? And perhaps most importantly who do you think GAVE him those advantages? You said in an earlier post that Lebron is a cheater. How? I loathe Lebron, but you're way overboard.

As far as the thread: swap MJ with Lebron, Lebron has 8 rings because Lebron wouldn't have retired. MJ would probably have the same number as Lebron if he was put on the same CLE/MIA/CLE teams. I don't think there is another player of similar production that an argument can be made.

I think at the very least MJ has 4 Rings right now because the Heat don't lose the Mavs series. You could probably argue MJ 4 peats in Miami.

ewing
02-01-2017, 02:39 PM
I think at the very least MJ has 4 Rings right now because the Heat don't lose the Mavs series. You could probably argue MJ 4 peats in Miami.

no doubt MJ 4 peats with the Heat and no way Bron 8 peats LOLOLOL

Miltstar
02-01-2017, 02:56 PM
What corners did Lebron cut? What advantage has he been given? And perhaps most importantly who do you think GAVE him those advantages? You said in an earlier post that Lebron is a cheater. How? I loathe Lebron, but you're way overboard.


As far as the thread: swap MJ with Lebron, Lebron has 8 rings because Lebron wouldn't have retired. MJ would probably have the same number as Lebron if he was put on the same CLE/MIA/CLE teams. I don't think there is another player of similar production that an argument can be made.

I've been over it enough times, it's clear people are sick of hearing it. Replace Jordan with Bron you have 2 Pippens and no Jordan's, but one of those Pippen's has a terrible attitude. I doubt they win any chips. The Bad Boys would have eaten him alive.

Shammyguy3
02-01-2017, 03:03 PM
I think at the very least MJ has 4 Rings right now because the Heat don't lose the Mavs series. You could probably argue MJ 4 peats in Miami.

Ahhhh you're right about them beating Dallas. I'm not sure if they would've beaten the Spurs back to back years though. That was the best offense i've ever seen with their ball movement.


no doubt MJ 4 peats with the Heat and no way Bron 8 peats LOLOLOL

What team would have beaten the Bulls with Bron in place of Jordan? And I think many feel if MJ didn't retire that the Rockets may not have any rings. Why would replacing MJ with a nearly statistically identical player change that?


I've been over it enough times, it's clear people are sick of hearing it. Replace Jordan with Bron you have 2 Pippens and no Jordan's, but one of those Pippen's has a terrible attitude. I doubt they win any chips.

You have 1 Pippen and 1 Lebron. Both of which do not have terrible attitudes.

Chronz
02-01-2017, 03:47 PM
I appreciate the respect but I don't see it happening. I don't get the point in arguing with people that don't agree with me. They can feel whatever type of way they want to feel it really has no effect on me.

I'm not sure what you're talking about abandoning my arguments though, if you haven't noticed my stance is still the same despite all the name calling.
You abandoned it without name calling too. A genuine hero

YAALREADYKNO
02-01-2017, 07:25 PM
I don't know why people have such a hard time admitting that LBJ simply has not lived up to his potential and all the hype. Probably the same reason he still can't admit it himself. I'm not saying he's not an all time great, but I honestly believe that Giannis is going to leave a greater legacy, I'm with you on that one.

Lol chill with the whole Giannis thing. This is his first all star game. Lebron has lived up to his hype and more

Giannis94
02-01-2017, 07:31 PM
Lol chill with the whole Giannis thing. This is his first all star game. Lebron has lived up to his hype and more

That's the thing. Lebron has simply lived up to his hype. Giannis has already exceeded the hype and expectations people had for him, and his potential is higher than any player we have seen

YAALREADYKNO
02-01-2017, 07:39 PM
That's the thing. Lebron has simply lived up to his hype. Giannis has already exceeded the hype and expectations people had for him, and his potential is higher than any player we have seen

😂 Like I said chill. Yes Giannis is turning into a great player but it's been 1 year and as of right now Milwaukee is on the outside looking in if the playoffs were to start today. Lebron took the cavs to the finals his 4th year. Giannis is still trying to get into the playoffs as the clear cut #1 option

Giannis94
02-01-2017, 07:54 PM
😂 Like I said chill. Yes Giannis is turning into a great player but it's been 1 year and as of right now Milwaukee is on the outside looking in if the playoffs were to start today. Lebron took the cavs to the finals his 4th year. Giannis is still trying to get into the playoffs as the clear cut #1 option

Losing in the finals and missing the playoffs is essentially the same result.

YAALREADYKNO
02-01-2017, 07:58 PM
Losing in the finals and missing the playoffs is essentially the same result.

Lmao sure because you don't win it all but bron proved he could take a team there his 4th year. Give giannis a couple of years and we'll see where he's at

Giannis94
02-01-2017, 08:10 PM
Lmao sure because you don't win it all but bron proved he could take a team there his 4th year. Give giannis a couple of years and we'll see where he's at

Pm me in 20 years and i can guarantee the only thing u will need to type is about Giannis surpassing those we are talking about in this thread

Shammyguy3
02-01-2017, 08:55 PM
That's the thing. Lebron has simply lived up to his hype. Giannis has already exceeded the hype and expectations people had for him, and his potential is higher than any player we have seen

If you were expected to reach high school, and instead reached high school and started taking college courses too, you exceeded expectations.

If you were expected to become a physician, and not only became a physician but became a top specialist in the field, you only met expectations.


Which is more impressive?

Miltstar
02-01-2017, 09:16 PM
You abandoned it without name calling too. A genuine hero

Always appreciate your support Chronz!

RLundi
02-01-2017, 11:18 PM
That's the thing. Lebron has simply lived up to his hype. Giannis has already exceeded the hype and expectations people had for him, and his potential is higher than any player we have seen

My god you're a homer. Giannis has been elite half a season or so. Give him a few years before you start throwing out "all-time" arguments. He's been underrated for years but you are singlehandedly about to make the guy overrated.

GodsSon
02-02-2017, 12:56 AM
Lol comparing Bron to Giannis??

LeBron was a teen phenom on the cover of magazines since like age 16. The Chosen One. The guy who made the big sports networks broadcast his HS games on national TV. A can't miss prospect that was on the path to potential GOAT status.

Giannis is nice, don't get me wrong; but LeBron is a once in every 20-25 year type of player. He's BEEN living up to the hype.

Miltstar
02-02-2017, 07:05 AM
Lol comparing Bron to Giannis??

Ya it's not much of a comparison is it? Gio soo much better!

Chronz
02-02-2017, 12:40 PM
If you were expected to reach high school, and instead reached high school and started taking college courses too, you exceeded expectations.

If you were expected to become a physician, and not only became a physician but became a top specialist in the field, you only met expectations.


Which is more impressive?
Yeah our new troll tried passing that one on me too. Similar to the Kobe shaq argument, even if Kobe maximized his talents more, shaq would win you more games

Miltstar
02-02-2017, 01:09 PM
If you were expected to reach high school, and instead reached high school and started taking college courses too, you exceeded expectations.

If you were expected to become a physician, and not only became a physician but became a top specialist in the field, you only met expectations.


Which is more impressive?

I'd argue neither is more impressive and you're better off just being yourself but then again I'm just a troll so my opinion does not matter.

Shammyguy3
02-02-2017, 01:16 PM
I'd argue neither is more impressive and you're better off just being yourself but then again I'm just a troll so my opinion does not matter.

You're lying to yourself

Miltstar
02-02-2017, 01:18 PM
You're lying to yourself

I love when people try to tell me how to think lol maybe, just maybe I know something you don't ;), but again why would you listen to me when you could just try to shove your opinion down my throat?

Chronz
02-02-2017, 01:24 PM
I'd argue neither is more impressive and you're better off just being yourself but then again I'm just a troll so my opinion does not matter.

of course it matters man. We Need MORE of you, people willing to say whatever is necessary to support their mindless beliefs. The statue is coming bro

Miltstar
02-02-2017, 01:29 PM
mindless. The statue is coming bro

The only 2 parts of your statement I disagree with.

Shammyguy3
02-02-2017, 05:33 PM
I love when people try to tell me how to think lol maybe, just maybe I know something you don't ;), but again why would you listen to me when you could just try to shove your opinion down my throat?

You're saying it is equally impressive to become a high school graduate taking college courses versus becoming a top physician in his respective specialty.


What's more impressive, making $100 at a lemonade stand one weekend or starting s business and making $100,000 in profits the first year?


Literally the comparison you are saying "is no difference"

valade16
02-02-2017, 05:40 PM
Whether it is more impressive for someone not expected to achieve to achieve over someone who is expected to achieve more achieving more, there is no dispute the man who achieved more achieved more.

While the high school guy going to college may be more impressive, the Phd guy is more educated.
While the lemonade stand that makes $100 in a day may be more impressive, the stand that makes $100,000 earns more.
While Giannis may be more impressive given his draft position, LeBron is better.

Miltstar
02-02-2017, 10:15 PM
You're saying it is equally impressive to become a high school graduate taking college courses versus becoming a top physician in his respective specialty.


What's more impressive, making $100 at a lemonade stand one weekend or starting s business and making $100,000 in profits the first year?


Literally the comparison you are saying "is no difference"

I never said there wasn't a difference, it depends on your values, if you value time with your loved ones over money than the lemonade stand is probably better. Especially if you already have enough money to live comfortably.

Shammyguy3
02-02-2017, 11:21 PM
I never said there wasn't a difference

what does "I'd argue neither is more impressive" mean then?

Miltstar
02-03-2017, 06:08 AM
what does "I'd argue neither is more impressive" mean then?

That's for you to figure out my friend, I can't teach you Philantropy through PSD