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sixer04fan
01-31-2017, 08:11 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18589897/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-throws-gauntlet-charles-barkley-hater

Some Lebron quotes:

"He's a hater," James told ESPN of Barkley following the Cleveland Cavaliers' 104-97 loss to the Dallas Mavericks on Monday. "What makes what he says credible? Because he's on TV?"

"I'm not going to let him disrespect my legacy like that," James told ESPN. "I'm not the one who threw somebody through a window. I never spit on a kid. I never had unpaid debt in Las Vegas. I never said, 'I'm not a role model.' I never showed up to All-Star Weekend on Sunday because I was in Vegas all weekend partying.

"All I've done for my entire career is represent the NBA the right way. Fourteen years, never got in trouble. Respected the game. Print that."

"I know he wanted to retire a long time ago, but he can't," James said. "He's stuck up on that stage every week."

"Go watch the '93 Finals when John Paxson hit the shot," James said. "Barkley and Jordan were laughing and joking with each other during one of the games while somebody's shooting a free throw. In the Finals. But, oh, nobody were friends back then."

"And if this makes him want to talk to me, the schedule's out there," James said. "He knows every road arena I'll be in. Don't just come up to me at All-Star and shake my hand and smile."

basch152
01-31-2017, 08:16 AM
Lebron definitely has gotten WAY more hate than he's deserved in his career and he's letting it get to him.

A lot of people are going to say a lot of negative things over this, but i mean, he's gotten way more hate than anyone here can comprehend, and don't understand what it's like. Lebron seems like a guy that needs love, and can't handle that people hate on him despite him never have doing anything wrong. So i can't blame him for that.

SteBO
01-31-2017, 08:25 AM
LeBron has taken the high road so many times. Despite the fact that Barkley was spot on about 95% of what he said (disagree with the "he doesn't want to compete angle"; that's an unfair label to attach to him), if LBJ felt disrespected about what he said, I'm not gonna criticize him for responding in this manner for a change. At some point, enough is enough.

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 08:31 AM
Love it. Put these hypercrit analysts in their place. If Barkley and Shaq had the work ethic of Bron who knows what their careers could have been. Shaq top 5? Barkley top 10?

sixer04fan
01-31-2017, 08:33 AM
This started with Barkley ripping Lebron for whining about his roster. Barkley said something along the lines of Lebron is the best player in the world, the defending champ, and he doesn't want to compete.

It's Barkley's job to have "hot takes" like that. But Lebron has every right to retaliate for all the **** Barkley has talked about him over the years. Everything he said was true. So I think both are right. It's a pretty awesome feud in sports haha

ewing
01-31-2017, 08:34 AM
Barkley got in trouble off the court. LeBron has no loyalty on it. Both guys have valid points.

sixer04fan
01-31-2017, 08:34 AM
Love it. Put these hypercrit analysts in their place. If Barkley and Shaq had the work ethic of Bron who knows what their careers could have been. Shaq top 5? Barkley top 10?

Agreed

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 08:52 AM
Sooo much love for Barkley, Lebron's trying to get ppl thinkin his **** smells like roses but I can assure you it still smells like ****

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 09:00 AM
Barkley got in trouble off the court. LeBron has no loyalty on it. Both guys have valid points.

James Jones disagrees.

Chronz
01-31-2017, 09:02 AM
Barkley got in trouble off the court. LeBron has no loyalty on it. Both guys have valid points.

Barkley got in trouble on the court remember. Barkley knows loyalty? Lmfao wat?

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 09:02 AM
LeBron has taken the high road so many times. Despite the fact that Barkley was spot on about 95% of what he said (disagree with the "he doesn't want to compete angle"; that's an unfair label to attach to him), if LBJ felt disrespected about what he said, I'm not gonna criticize him for responding in this manner for a change. At some point, enough is enough.

Because Lebron is the current player he is supposed to just take it and let the past player rip his character. Nope.

Lebron more than any other NBA player has earned the right to defend himself.

Chronz
01-31-2017, 09:05 AM
James Jones disagrees.
I understand it but isnt it alil odd that big z got zero backlash for leaving Cleveland or does a tv show that raised millions for children really condemn LeBron so much?

SteBO
01-31-2017, 09:08 AM
Because Lebron is the current player he is supposed to just take it and let the past player rip his character. Nope.

Lebron more than any other NBA player has earned the right to defend himself.
Don't recall saying that he should bend over and take it. But Barkley wasn't wrong with what he said and LBJ wasn't wrong in responding the way he did.

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 09:10 AM
I think it all comes down to the fact that if he was truly the greatest of all time, he wouldn't need to tell people he was the greatest of all time, they would just know. Unfortunately for him a lot of people see right through his bull****

kdspurman
01-31-2017, 09:44 AM
Yea, I'm with SteBo. Barkley said what many of us said initially when he was complaining about not having enough help. It's a fair statement for the most part

Lebron chose to go a different route in his response, and that's his prerogative. He may have had his ego hurt a bit with what Barkley said, so he said what he said

STRIKERC
01-31-2017, 10:18 AM
This just proves once again that LeBron is the most weak minded among the best that ever played the game. No wonder he had to join forces with other superstars to win, and he's currently whinning about wanting the world handed to him on a silver platter to enable him to continue winning.

Glad Barkley called him out on it. Too many people are scared to say it.

Vinylman
01-31-2017, 10:19 AM
Lebron Lebron Lebron...

once you make it personal it opens a whole other can of worms...

Here's to hoping Barkley knows where Lebron's skeletons are

gonna be a fun week unless Barkley pusses out.

TheIlladelph16
01-31-2017, 10:27 AM
This just proves once again that LeBron is the most weak minded among the best that ever played the game. No wonder he had to join forces with other superstars to win, and he's currently whinning about wanting the world handed to him on a silver platter to enable him to continue winning.

Glad Barkley called him out on it. Too many people are scared to say it.

Yeah if there's one thing I've learned about Lebron and NBA fans is that people are too scared to ever criticize him. :rolleyes:

Gimme a ****ing break. Bron has taken more criticism than any player in the history of the game, and the vultures keep coming back for more. Good for him for not backing down. Every single thing he said about Barkley was completely true.

JLynn943
01-31-2017, 10:29 AM
I love it on LeBron's part. Charles talks and talks and talks, and he does it out of both sides of his mouth. He started out as entertaining, but it got to his head and now he thinks that he actually knows what he's talking about. Most of what he says is useless BS, super obvious, or hate. He's full of himself and is disrespectful. I love him getting called out on it.

ewing
01-31-2017, 11:20 AM
Barkley got in trouble on the court remember. Barkley knows loyalty? Lmfao wat?


Did Charles walk out on two separate teams that were on the brink? The guy only thinks of himself. No wonder Delonte ****ed his Mom

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 11:23 AM
Barkley got in trouble off the court. LeBron has no loyalty on it. Both guys have valid points.

dude, you are so biased it's unreal. Barkley knew loyalty? Haha

if free agency were actually allowed in the 80's, your whole world would be different when it came to NBA devotion.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 11:23 AM
I love it. Barkley can stfu, LeBron is exactly right here. Many of these old timers like Barkley are the pinnacle example of, "we walked uphills both ways!"

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 11:25 AM
Lebron Lebron Lebron...

once you make it personal it opens a whole other can of worms...

Here's to hoping Barkley knows where Lebron's skeletons are

gonna be a fun week unless Barkley pusses out.

he won't, but he really doesn't do any research, he just talks out of both sides of his mouth. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes not so much. Alas, that is the hilarity of Barkley...

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 11:40 AM
I understand it but isnt it alil odd that big z got zero backlash for leaving Cleveland or does a tv show that raised millions for children really condemn LeBron so much?

Not in my eyes.


Don't recall saying that he should bend over and take it. But Barkley wasn't wrong with what he said and LBJ wasn't wrong in responding the way he did.

I was agreeing with you. I was bringing up the point that retired players tend to say ridiculous things. Barkley. I immediately thought of Oscar Robertson's comments about defending Curry. Because they are older and retired they can attack the current players and the current game but if someone like Curry or LeBron responds then they look like a whiner.

ManRam
01-31-2017, 11:43 AM
This is great. Love when players clap back at any pundit barking incessantly from afar.

I will say, LeBron is clearly a bit frustrated with things right now, as is expected. This is atypical of him but whatever. Roast 'em! Love when hypocrites get flambéd.

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 11:43 AM
I understand it but isnt it alil odd that big z got zero backlash for leaving Cleveland or does a tv show that raised millions for children really condemn LeBron so much?


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18589897/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-throws-gauntlet-charles-barkley-hater

Some Lebron quotes:

"He's a hater," James told ESPN of Barkley following the Cleveland Cavaliers' 104-97 loss to the Dallas Mavericks on Monday. "What makes what he says credible? Because he's on TV?"

"I'm not going to let him disrespect my legacy like that," James told ESPN. "I'm not the one who threw somebody through a window. I never spit on a kid. I never had unpaid debt in Las Vegas. I never said, 'I'm not a role model.' I never showed up to All-Star Weekend on Sunday because I was in Vegas all weekend partying.

"All I've done for my entire career is represent the NBA the right way. Fourteen years, never got in trouble. Respected the game. Print that."

"I know he wanted to retire a long time ago, but he can't," James said. "He's stuck up on that stage every week."

"Go watch the '93 Finals when John Paxson hit the shot," James said. "Barkley and Jordan were laughing and joking with each other during one of the games while somebody's shooting a free throw. In the Finals. But, oh, nobody were friends back then."

"And if this makes him want to talk to me, the schedule's out there," James said. "He knows every road arena I'll be in. Don't just come up to me at All-Star and shake my hand and smile."

I just re-read this for the 3rd time. Each time it gets better than the last. He doesn't just respond. He is trying to bury Barkley. He goes for the jugular.

ManRam
01-31-2017, 11:45 AM
Did Charles walk out on two separate teams that were on the brink? The guy only thinks of himself. No wonder Delonte ****ed his Mom

You mean, left in free agency like literally thousands of players have done before? Why is he the ONLY guy we ever criticize for leaving in free agency, prior to KD. Jesus. Just because he's great doesn't mean it's fair to hold him to this weird standard that we literally hold no one else to.


Charles makes a living being an idiot and ripping players with his ****** insight. It's only right that players clap back.

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 11:47 AM
I understand it but isnt it alil odd that big z got zero backlash for leaving Cleveland or does a tv show that raised millions for children really condemn LeBron so much?


You mean, left in free agency like literally thousands of players have done before? Why is he the ONLY guy we ever criticize for leaving in free agency, prior to KD. Jesus. Just because he's great doesn't mean it's fair to hold him to this weird standard that we literally hold no one else to.


Charles makes a living being an idiot and ripping players with his ****** insight. It's only right that players clap back.

The counter examples are all laughable.

MJ - had pippen
Bird - had dj/aingle/mchale/parish
Magic - kareem
Kobe - shaq then was gonna split until he got pau

Cleveland had 1 job. Get LeBron another teammate to chase rings with...so they went all in... on larry hughes.

Miltstar
01-31-2017, 11:53 AM
Did Charles walk out on two separate teams that were on the brink? The guy only thinks of himself. No wonder Delonte ****ed his Mom

ahahahahaha yes man!!! Sooo funny!!! :)

D-Leethal
01-31-2017, 12:04 PM
Did Charles walk out on two separate teams that were on the brink? The guy only thinks of himself. No wonder Delonte ****ed his Mom

He left a team that was a clear favorite to make the Finals to form a superteam that would absolutely trump the rest of the East in talent. After making the Finals every year on his superteam he bounced on a team still the clear cut favorite to make the Finals to form a superteam that would absolutely trump the rest of the East in talent.

Being the favorite to make the Finals was never good enough for LeBron - he needed to have zero competition on his way there.

That set the precedent for a top 3 player in the NBA to leave a contender to join the best regular season team in history to absolutely trump the rest of the league in talent.

The goal for the top players in free agency has become: join a team that nobody else can come close to competing with. That's all because of LeBron.

I don't really care about loyalty but I do have a problem with trying to find the easiest route possible and crushing the overall competitive spirit of the league.

D-Leethal
01-31-2017, 12:05 PM
That said, I am happy Chuck is calling out LeBron. I am also happy LeBron is taking off the gloves and swinging back at Chuck. I hope this continues.

MarkieMark48
01-31-2017, 12:06 PM
The counter examples are all laughable.

MJ - had pippen
Bird - had dj/aingle/mchale/parish
Magic - kareem
Kobe - shaq then was gonna split until he got pau

Cleveland had 1 job. Get LeBron another teammate to chase rings with...so they went all in... on larry hughes.

:laugh:

MarkieMark48
01-31-2017, 12:13 PM
He left a team that was a clear favorite to make the Finals to form a superteam that would absolutely trump the rest of the East in talent. After making the Finals every year on his superteam he bounced on a team still the clear cut favorite to make the Finals to form a superteam that would absolutely trump the rest of the East in talent.

That set the precedent for a top 3 player in the NBA to leave a contender to join the best regular season team in history to absolutely trump the rest of the league in talent.

The goal for the top players in free agency has become: join a team that nobody else can come close to competing with. That's all because of LeBron.

I don't really care about loyalty but I do have a problem with trying to find the easiest route possible and crushing the overall competitive spirit of the league.

Eh... when Lebron went to Miami the Big 3 were still in Boston, however they were a little more aged and not in their prime like when they first formed, but were still probably going to be the favorite to win the east had Lebron not gone to Miami.

Vinylman
01-31-2017, 12:16 PM
he won't, but he really doesn't do any research, he just talks out of both sides of his mouth. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes not so much. Alas, that is the hilarity of Barkley...

he doesn't need to ... people will furnish him the dirt... the question is whether he will use it.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 12:19 PM
he doesn't need to ... people will furnish him the dirt... the question is whether he will use it.

again though, Chuck just runs with anything, which is part of his charm, and annoyance

Chronz
01-31-2017, 12:51 PM
Did Charles walk out on two separate teams that were on the brink? The guy only thinks of himself. No wonder Delonte ****ed his Mom

Yes. About as much as any you claim for bron. The subtle differences being individual dominance that Chuck lacked to Brons degree.

papipapsmanny
01-31-2017, 01:22 PM
This is great. Love when players clap back at any pundit barking incessantly from afar.

I will say, LeBron is clearly a bit frustrated with things right now, as is expected. This is atypical of him but whatever. Roast 'em! Love when hypocrites get flambéd.

Lebron whining and *****ing is atypical to you?

ManRam
01-31-2017, 01:31 PM
Lebron whining and *****ing is atypical to you?

No. Everyone whines.

This isn't complaining about refs or something silly. This is a bit more than what we see. I'm not sure it's so much "whining" as it's frustration. Roasting Chuck like this is atypical from him. When have we seen him directly go after someone? He's put pressure on front offices before, but the recent one was pretty blunt. Like I said, he's clearly frustrated, but we rarely see it manifest like this.

aman_13
01-31-2017, 01:33 PM
LBJ definitely went too far with his response. I don't see why he needed to be so personal. This is going to get nasty.

D-Leethal
01-31-2017, 01:39 PM
Eh... when Lebron went to Miami the Big 3 were still in Boston, however they were a little more aged and not in their prime like when they first formed, but were still probably going to be the favorite to win the east had Lebron not gone to Miami.

Boston won 50 games and Cleveland won 61 in 2010. Cleveland was significantly better - LeBron just quit on his team mid-series when he found out Delonte banged his mom.

aman_13
01-31-2017, 01:40 PM
Yeah this is not typical LBJ. If I'm not mistaken, he gave this quote after another loss so part of his vitriol must of stemmed from how the team is playing right now. It was a perfect storm and ESPN got themselves a big story.

papipapsmanny
01-31-2017, 01:40 PM
No. Everyone whines.

This isn't complaining about refs or something silly. This is a bit more than what we see. I'm not sure it's so much "whining" as it's frustration. Roasting Chuck like this is atypical from him. When have we seen him directly go after someone? He's put pressure on front offices before, but the recent one was pretty blunt. Like I said, he's clearly frustrated, but we rarely see it manifest like this.

Its all the same in nature, usually he is just passive aggressive, this time just aggressive is the only difference I see. At least it shows some ball this time, because being passive aggressive is such a weak, childish move

KnicksorBust
01-31-2017, 01:47 PM
He left a team that was a clear favorite to make the Finals to form a superteam that would absolutely trump the rest of the East in talent. After making the Finals every year on his superteam he bounced on a team still the clear cut favorite to make the Finals to form a superteam that would absolutely trump the rest of the East in talent.

Being the favorite to make the Finals was never good enough for LeBron - he needed to have zero competition on his way there.

That set the precedent for a top 3 player in the NBA to leave a contender to join the best regular season team in history to absolutely trump the rest of the league in talent.

The goal for the top players in free agency has become: join a team that nobody else can come close to competing with. That's all because of LeBron.

I don't really care about loyalty but I do have a problem with trying to find the easiest route possible and crushing the overall competitive spirit of the league.

Completely disagree here. So after 7 pathetic years of trying to build a roster around him, LeBron should be forced to stay on the Cavs? Is it ever okay for a player to sign with a better team? The standards for him are just ridiculous.

Also the idea that Kyrie Irving and a draft pick was leaving to play for a Super Team is too far fetched for me. The Cavs were hot garbage the year before he came back.

Vinylman
01-31-2017, 01:53 PM
again though, Chuck just runs with anything, which is part of his charm, and annoyance

I hear ya...

People's perspectives on this are always going to vary...

My only significant take away is that LeBron knows his days are numbered and that he needs to win now because his real window is probably on this year plus 2 more at the most... That team is in cap hell and has no assets other than players (and most of them aren't worth their contracts )and the hope that someone will sacrifice money at the end of their career to try and win.

Vinylman
01-31-2017, 01:55 PM
Yeah this is not typical LBJ. If I'm not mistaken, he gave this quote after another loss so part of his vitriol must of stemmed from how the team is playing right now. It was a perfect storm and ESPN got themselves a big story.

yeah... it is only the second time since 2006 that he has had a losing month when playing at least 10 games

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 02:18 PM
I hear ya...

People's perspectives on this are always going to vary...

My only significant take away is that LeBron knows his days are numbered and that he needs to win now because his real window is probably on this year plus 2 more at the most... That team is in cap hell and has no assets other than players (and most of them aren't worth their contracts )and the hope that someone will sacrifice money at the end of their career to try and win.

I mean, I am sure it's a mini-eruption from James after trying to take the high road for all these years. But, that is what happens when you are the "King" at like age 15.

Yeah, his window is closing for sure. I don't think they have the horses this year, they have to hope like hell GS shoots themselves again to win.

Frankly, I am kind of glad LeBron is doing this. Some of these older guys need to hear "stfu" from modern day players. It's cyclical, the older guys always had it tougher, that is the way of the world, right?

Vinylman
01-31-2017, 02:33 PM
I mean, I am sure it's a mini-eruption from James after trying to take the high road for all these years. But, that is what happens when you are the "King" at like age 15.

Yeah, his window is closing for sure. I don't think they have the horses this year, they have to hope like hell GS shoots themselves again to win.

Frankly, I am kind of glad LeBron is doing this. Some of these older guys need to hear "stfu" from modern day players. It's cyclical, the older guys always had it tougher, that is the way of the world, right?

definitely on the bolded ... but there is also some truth to it in the sense that the current generation gets paid a lot more before they ever do anything... I really think most of the Jealousy is about the money...

MarkieMark48
01-31-2017, 02:36 PM
Boston won 50 games and Cleveland won 61 in 2010. Cleveland was significantly better - LeBron just quit on his team mid-series when he found out Delonte banged his mom.

:laugh:

papipapsmanny
01-31-2017, 02:39 PM
I mean, I am sure it's a mini-eruption from James after trying to take the high road for all these years. But, that is what happens when you are the "King" at like age 15.

Yeah, his window is closing for sure. I don't think they have the horses this year, they have to hope like hell GS shoots themselves again to win.

Frankly, I am kind of glad LeBron is doing this. Some of these older guys need to hear "stfu" from modern day players. It's cyclical, the older guys always had it tougher, that is the way of the world, right?

I'd say they did, hand checking was allowed, and no defensive 3 seconds. By the very definition of the word. The league was a lot tougher in the 80s and early to mid 90s

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 02:40 PM
definitely on the bolded ... but there is also some truth to it in the sense that the current generation gets paid a lot more before they ever do anything... I really think most of the Jealousy is about the money...

agree 10000%. Hell KG caused the lockout, when guys like Malone had it with the escalating salaries as they were leaving the game.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 02:42 PM
I'd say they did, hand checking was allowed, and no defensive 3 seconds. By the very definition of the word. The league was a lot tougher in the 80s and early to mid 90s

the league was wide open in the 80's, what are you talking about? No zone, track meets. LeBron's numbers in the 80's would have been insane. Any of the great perimeter scorers and big men prefer the older days, when all they had to do was get by a guy trying to grab you. Now there is a wall waiting, and teams don't need to wait for a basketball move to send help. For sure better defenses today, and quite frankly, minus the big hits, the game is more physical today.

The 80's is so overrated as far as "toughness". it was a layup drill for the most part.

Vee-Rex
01-31-2017, 02:54 PM
Boston won 50 games and Cleveland won 61 in 2010. Cleveland was significantly better - LeBron just quit on his team mid-series when he found out Delonte banged his mom.

You really think Cleveland was the better team (let alone SIGNIFICANTLY) just from the regular season record??? :laugh2: :laugh2:

Boston was the better team. Regular season record doesn't mean jack squat. LeBron shat the bucket in a couple of those games, and I agree that he quit during portions of those games. But make no mistake about it that Boston was the superior team. Hell, they probably would've won the finals that year if not for the injury to Perkins and the outrageous free throw attempt differential between them and the Lakers.

papipapsmanny
01-31-2017, 03:09 PM
the league was wide open in the 80's, what are you talking about? No zone, track meets. LeBron's numbers in the 80's would have been insane. Any of the great perimeter scorers and big men prefer the older days, when all they had to do was get by a guy trying to grab you. Now there is a wall waiting, and teams don't need to wait for a basketball move to send help. For sure better defenses today, and quite frankly, minus the big hits, the game is more physical today.

The 80's is so overrated as far as "toughness". it was a layup drill for the most part.

Yeah you lost me..... They call fouls today if you take up a part of a offensive player's oxygen space. Driving to the basket then compared to now is no where near as taxing as it used to be.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2017, 03:21 PM
Yeah you lost me..... They call fouls today if you take up a part of a offensive player's oxygen space. Driving to the basket then compared to now is no where near as taxing as it used to be.

you are confusing a few hard fouls with defense from yesterday's game. The game was wide open in the 80's. It was much, much easier to get to the rim.

papipapsmanny
01-31-2017, 03:34 PM
you are confusing a few hard fouls with defense from yesterday's game. The game was wide open in the 80's. It was much, much easier to get to the rim.

We are arguing different things here. The league was tougher in the sense of physical pain endured throughout a game. Everyone was doing what the Bad Boys were doing.... they just did it more. It was more of beating back then without question.

R. Johnson#3
01-31-2017, 03:40 PM
Barkley spoke some truth but if you're going to chirp then you better be able to take it. Lebron went all out. He had every right to and good on him for doing it. Shaq also made a good point that Chuck has no clue what it takes to go back to back.

MarkieMark48
01-31-2017, 03:41 PM
you are confusing a few hard fouls with defense from yesterday's game. The game was wide open in the 80's. It was much, much easier to get to the rim.

People only see clips of the pistons clobbering people so they assume that's all that the nba was back then.... kinda like 10/15 years from now people will be like vince carter wasn't that good, all he did was dunk

mngopher35
01-31-2017, 03:46 PM
Haha yes, this should be entertaining. Let's see what Barkley responds with.

Chronz
01-31-2017, 03:47 PM
I hear ya...

People's perspectives on this are always going to vary...

My only significant take away is that LeBron knows his days are numbered and that he needs to win now because his real window is probably on this year plus 2 more at the most... That team is in cap hell and has no assets other than players (and most of them aren't worth their contracts )and the hope that someone will sacrifice money at the end of their career to try and win.
You think he has that long of a window? It would be truly amazing

ewing
01-31-2017, 03:47 PM
dude, you are so biased it's unreal. Barkley knew loyalty? Haha

if free agency were actually allowed in the 80's, your whole world would be different when it came to NBA devotion.

Screw that, LeBron is a fascist

kdspurman
01-31-2017, 03:49 PM
We are arguing different things here. The league was tougher in the sense of physical pain endured throughout a game. Everyone was doing what the Bad Boys were doing.... they just did it more. It was more of beating back then without question.

I think it's fair to say there is more emphasis now on protecting the players than their was then. Stuff being called a flagrant 1 or 2 now would be a common foul in the late 80's & 90's. You could get away with much more then physicality wise than you can now.

Chronz
01-31-2017, 03:51 PM
Yeah you lost me..... They call fouls today if you take up a part of a offensive player's oxygen space. Driving to the basket then compared to now is no where near as taxing as it used to be.
It was easier to run up and down and worry more about your individual matchup than having to be Completely on a string defensively against sophisticated sets. I wouldn't say either era is significantly tougher. I mean if hard fouls are all you like then why not say the 50s and 60s were the epitome of tough, back when men brawled

Chronz
01-31-2017, 03:57 PM
I'd say they did, hand checking was allowed, and no defensive 3 seconds. By the very definition of the word. The league was a lot tougher in the 80s and early to mid 90s

Handchecking was curtailed in 1980 (again in 95) and zones were still illegal. By the very definition of the word, it was less tougher. That's without mentioning the inferior athletes and simplistic strategies (cuz the game was more 1v1). See how that works?

Chronz
01-31-2017, 04:00 PM
I think it's fair to say there is more emphasis now on protecting the players than their was then. Stuff being called a flagrant 1 or 2 now would be a common foul in the late 80's & 90's. You could get away with much more then physicality wise than you can now.
I disagree with this much stuff but would any one here admit the 50s were the toughest era of bawl because it was brawl ball? Didn't think so, both eras had their strengths and advantages. The only era i give more credit to defensively in terms of both physicality and defensive strength were the years pre hc yet post zones aka the years That turned off many fans

Chronz
01-31-2017, 04:04 PM
We are arguing different things here. The league was tougher in the sense of physical pain endured throughout a game. Everyone was doing what the Bad Boys were doing.... they just did it more. It was more of beating back then without question.
Disagree. That era saw twigs run up and down for 40+ minutes whereas today, superior athletes can't do That anymore.

tredigs
01-31-2017, 04:08 PM
Lebron is full on losing it. This is great entertainment.

papipapsmanny
01-31-2017, 04:10 PM
Disagree. That era saw twigs run up and down for 40+ minutes whereas today, superior athletes can't do That anymore.

So you think there are more harder fouls today? And size has nothing to do with toughness. You all are trying to make it about scoring and I am talking about the actual physical toll of going to the rim.

A much higher price used to be paid for going to the rim back in that time, where as today a much bigger price is paid by trying to play defense as you will get called for anything and give up an and-one

D-Leethal
01-31-2017, 04:19 PM
You really think Cleveland was the better team (let alone SIGNIFICANTLY) just from the regular season record??? :laugh2: :laugh2:

Boston was the better team. Regular season record doesn't mean jack squat. LeBron shat the bucket in a couple of those games, and I agree that he quit during portions of those games. But make no mistake about it that Boston was the superior team. Hell, they probably would've won the finals that year if not for the injury to Perkins and the outrageous free throw attempt differential between them and the Lakers.

Revisionist history at it's finest. Cleveland was the better team by any measure you want to come up with and were HEAVY favorites to win the East all season long.

For what it's worth, Vegas odds heading into the 2010 playoffs:

BOSTON CELTICS

Sportsbook.com Odds to Win NBA Title: +900
Sportsbook.com Odds to Win Eastern Conference: +400

CLEVELAND CAVALIERS

Sportsbook.com Odds to Win NBA Title: +150
Sportsbook.com Odds to Win Eastern Conference: -300

It wouldn't have changed the following year when Boston was a year older. Cavs were the favorites to win the East, tied with LA as favorites to win the championship and would have continued to be. They were better than Boston by that time regardless if they choked it up and lost to a worse team in the playoffs every year.

FlashBolt
01-31-2017, 04:51 PM
None of us have any clue what it's like being in LeBron's position, though. No player has to deal with the absurd pressure he has to in winning a ring. I think LeBron is just frustrated that Cavs can still make moves but are relatively idle while not acknowledging that LeBron leads the league in MPG. That's absurd for someone who has been in the league for fourteen years. I disliked how he went to the media and called out his teammates but he's not kidding. There simply is no way for the Cavs to beat the Warriors when you're telling Felder and Liggins to become playmakers. They should have gotten someone to replace Delly. Once Felder wasn't capable of doing that, they needed to make moves. Liggins is a pesky defender but he's a waste of a roster spot.

Barkley is wrong here. LeBron does not have the best team. The reason the Cavs won was because of LeBron+Kyrie and also the Warriors choking. LeBron realizes that and just wants the Cavs to match the Warriors in terms of firepower. And this goes way farther than just what Barkley said a few days ago. Remember when Barkley went to Bill Simmons show and said LeBron would never be in his top five and his explanation for it was pathetic. Claiming LeBron has no competitiveness or a lack of is an attack on what LeBron has worked so hard for in his life. Dude came up from the projects and has done amazing things for the league and others. You never attack a man's character and not expect a response.

cmellofan15
01-31-2017, 05:00 PM
Kinda torn on this.

I hate the dynamic of the media-player relationships where the media can say almost anything about a player and they have to take it. So that part of me applauds Lebron for standing up to a guy with no credibility who just talks behind a desk.

But another part of me is disappointed that a guy who has so much influence in impressionable young people is making personal attacks on a guy and everyone is seeing it.

ewing
01-31-2017, 05:08 PM
None of us have any clue what it's like being in LeBron's position, though. No player has to deal with the absurd pressure he has to in winning a ring. I think LeBron is just frustrated that Cavs can still make moves but are relatively idle while not acknowledging that LeBron leads the league in MPG. That's absurd for someone who has been in the league for fourteen years. I disliked how he went to the media and called out his teammates but he's not kidding. There simply is no way for the Cavs to beat the Warriors when you're telling Felder and Liggins to become playmakers. They should have gotten someone to replace Delly. Once Felder wasn't capable of doing that, they needed to make moves. Liggins is a pesky defender but he's a waste of a roster spot.

Barkley is wrong here. LeBron does not have the best team. The reason the Cavs won was because of LeBron+Kyrie and also the Warriors choking. LeBron realizes that and just wants the Cavs to match the Warriors in terms of firepower. And this goes way farther than just what Barkley said a few days ago. Remember when Barkley went to Bill Simmons show and said LeBron would never be in his top five and his explanation for it was pathetic. Claiming LeBron has no competitiveness or a lack of is an attack on what LeBron has worked so hard for in his life. Dude came up from the projects and has done amazing things for the league and others. You never attack a man's character and not expect a response.

I cried a little reading this one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FlashBolt
01-31-2017, 05:09 PM
Kinda torn on this.

I hate the dynamic of the media-player relationships where the media can say almost anything about a player and they have to take it. So that part of me applauds Lebron for standing up to a guy with no credibility who just talks behind a desk.

But another part of me is disappointed that a guy who has so much influence in impressionable young people is making personal attacks on a guy and everyone is seeing it.

Well, I think that has a lot to do with Barkley attacking LeBron's character as well despite LeBron working incredibly hard to get to where he is at now both financially and professionally. You can tell it was building up considering LeBron knew exactly what to say. At the end of the day, I just think LeBron made a terrible decision bashing his teammates and Barkley needs to shut his mouth regarding LeBron. He doesn't have an ounce of credibility regarding him. I mean, this is the same guy who said Klay might be the 2nd best player in the NBA.

Vee-Rex
01-31-2017, 05:09 PM
Revisionist history at it's finest. Cleveland was the better team by any measure you want to come up with and were HEAVY favorites to win the East all season long.

For what it's worth, Vegas odds heading into the 2010 playoffs:

BOSTON CELTICS

Sportsbook.com Odds to Win NBA Title: +900
Sportsbook.com Odds to Win Eastern Conference: +400

CLEVELAND CAVALIERS

Sportsbook.com Odds to Win NBA Title: +150
Sportsbook.com Odds to Win Eastern Conference: -300

It wouldn't have changed the following year when Boston was a year older. Cavs were the favorites to win the East, tied with LA as favorites to win the championship and would have continued to be. They were better than Boston by that time regardless if they choked it up and lost to a worse team in the playoffs every year.

Cleveland was not the better team. You're confusing 'favorites' with 'better'. That Cleveland team was extremely flawed and did not play team ball. Who cares how much they beat up on bum teams during the regular season? Again, separate 'better' from 'favorites'.

I watched every minute of that series and everyone in the world watching it would have told you that Boston was superior.

FlashBolt
01-31-2017, 05:09 PM
I cried a little reading this one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who cares what you do. You never have anything interesting to say anyways.

papipapsmanny
01-31-2017, 05:48 PM
Listen Lebron built a super team in Miami, and then did it in Clevland, and now he is crying because the Warriors are beating him at the game he created.

If Lebron wasn't so insecure he wouldn't have felt the need to even acknowledge what Barkley said, (and what Barkley said wasn't even that bad).

He is starting to freak out because he pronounced himself King before he got to the league, wants to claim he is better than Jordan, and is starting to see time running out at getting close to the 6 rings MJ had.

That is really what this all looks like to me

BDawk4Prez
01-31-2017, 06:04 PM
I love Chuck.

Chronz
01-31-2017, 06:50 PM
So you think there are more harder fouls today?
I think focusing on fouls as opposed to the entirety of the game is where people of your ilk miss the boat.


And size has nothing to do with toughness. You all are trying to make it about scoring and I am talking about the actual physical toll of going to the rim.

I know, I disagree with the physical toll you attribute and I used facts to help my point. How much more physically demanding could it be with inferior athletes, under more restricted rules (IMO) in a less advanced era experiencing such higher levels of efficiency whilst also playing way more minutes. Dude the 80's SUCKED Defensively IMO and your reasoning isn't swaying my mind. All Im saying



A much higher price used to be paid for going to the rim back in that time, where as today a much bigger price is paid by trying to play defense as you will get called for anything and give up an and-one

LOL, no. It was a more free flowing game where teams got PLENTY of the easiest baskets you will ever see. I actually just saw a replay of a classic Kemp vs Barkley game where the 2 teams basically took turns just isolating their star and having him work against a defense that couldn't sandwich postups with fronting and roaming defenses. Its literally ILLEGAL to double guys who dont have the ball unless you're committing 2 defenders to the ball handler, thus opening driving avenues for the rest of the team. A practice teams had to be very clever at hiding. Today, you can wall up the rim to degrees that no star ever saw in the weak eras you listed. I even remember when zones were first legalized, Tmac, KD AND Duncan all agreed it should be done away with because it made it harder for them offensively and marginalized the star. Hakeem when he first entered the NBA was RELIEVED to not be facing zones in Colleges. You ask Wilt and Shaq and they had similar experiences in their youths. So yeah you want to pretend if you entered the lane you got whacked, well thats only if they could recover in time to be there, which under those rules was laughably low. Its almost like you dont remember why zones were installed to begin with. With the fast break game dying, offenses were devolving into a purely halfcourt state where 1 on 1 play ran rampant. You guys exaggerate the impact of a few fouls and ignore the **** load of possessions where guys just coasted for easy *** layups because defenses actually had to honor a Dennis Rodman from 3. Hell, remember when the Dubs changed the series vs the Grizz by just having Bogut "Guard" Tony Allen yet totally clogging the lane and completely dissing him out there. That would've never been allowed in the soft 80's, ****, Phil Jackson was whining when MJ had to face simple BOX-1's and you think a few fouls are gonna outweigh all that? Not buying it bro.

Something tells me, LeBron would gladly take those hits if it meant it came from a league that was inferior athletically, incapable of walling up the rim to this degree, was more of a free flowing up and down running game AND he could simply disregard his relative inability to shoot (like Magic Johnson did for most of his career) and pick you apart with his passing and 1v1 ability.

Bron would have tore up the 80's/90's to an even GREATER degree. Not that it matters but other stars have said as much.

europagnpilgrim
01-31-2017, 06:51 PM
Lebron definitely has gotten WAY more hate than he's deserved in his career and he's letting it get to him.

A lot of people are going to say a lot of negative things over this, but i mean, he's gotten way more hate than anyone here can comprehend, and don't understand what it's like. Lebron seems like a guy that needs love, and can't handle that people hate on him despite him never have doing anything wrong. So i can't blame him for that.

after 14yrs its not letting it get to you its more like let me defend myself as a hue-man

everybody has a boiling point and sometimes it takes others a little longer to reach that point

kudos to Lebron for putting Chuck in his rightful place, at least he spoke on stuff that happened, the truth needs no crutches to stand on that's for sure

Chronz
01-31-2017, 07:05 PM
Cleveland was not the better team. You're confusing 'favorites' with 'better'. That Cleveland team was extremely flawed and did not play team ball. Who cares how much they beat up on bum teams during the regular season? Again, separate 'better' from 'favorites'.

I watched every minute of that series and everyone in the world watching it would have told you that Boston was superior.

Im super curious about your opinion on those final 2 years but I dont want to derail the thread or make a new, so Ill just PM you when I'm done writing out my thoughts.

RocketLoc80
01-31-2017, 07:20 PM
I get where Barkley was coming from where you dont complain to the media about team rosters but i think he was kinda out of line questioning if he wants to compete . I kinda get LBJ stance when you neen shitted on by the media at large every year for not winning because society at large has been brainwashed by these piece of s@"t talking heads in the media( Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless punk *****) that the only thing that counts in a career is the ring count. Lets put it this way Tim Duncan has 5 rings and he had a stellar career but i am not put him over a Wilt or Prime Shaq as far as sheer dominance. Would you ? Sam Jones and John Havlichik got 22 rings combined but would you take them over Oscar or Jerry West? If only Lebron would just come out and either Stephen A Smith or Skip Bayless

D-Leethal
01-31-2017, 08:03 PM
Cleveland was not the better team. You're confusing 'favorites' with 'better'. That Cleveland team was extremely flawed and did not play team ball. Who cares how much they beat up on bum teams during the regular season? Again, separate 'better' from 'favorites'.

I watched every minute of that series and everyone in the world watching it would have told you that Boston was superior.

You are confusing winning a 7 game series with being the better team. The better team doesn't always win the series. The better team is usually the favorite based on an entire seasons body of work and statistical analyis.

Cleveland wasn't a better team than the Warriors last year but they won. This is no different.

Vee-Rex
01-31-2017, 08:25 PM
You are confusing winning a 7 game series with being the better team. The better team doesn't always win the series. The better team is usually the favorite based on an entire seasons body of work and statistical analyis.

Cleveland wasn't a better team than the Warriors last year but they won. This is no different.

That Boston Celtics team excelled in the half-court offense and wanted a slow-paced game. That's when they dominated with teamwork on both ends of the court. Thibs had established and sort of revolutionized the way defenses played with his schemes for the Celtics (primarily collapsing defenses that played zone on the weakside, making it difficult for superstars to score and/or pass to the open man).

The LAST way you want to face those Celtics teams was in the half-court, and if you didn't have the matchup advantages with the players then you were in for some trouble.

Those Cavs teams cruised through the regular season with a strict focus on defense and letting LeBron dominate and get open shots for the roleplayers. Mike Brown cemented his style of play and was successful. But when the playoffs came and teams could strategize to limit LeBron, THAT's when the ugliness of those Cavs teams were exposed.

In the 2009-10 playoffs, that Cavs team played at a slow pace (mostly in the halfcourt) off the backs of a 34-year old Jamison (34mpg in the playoffs), and a 34-year old Anthony Parker (30mpg in the playoffs). They didn't utilize JJ Hickson or Jamario Moon or any of the other athletic players well at all, mainly because those players just weren't good players. Our best players (other than 'Bron) were far less talented than the best players on the Celtics, and since we couldn't beat them athletically (lol Andy), they tore us apart in the halfcourt.

Those Cavs teams were easy to game-plan for and limit, and Thibs' defensive strategies really made it harder for 'Bron to succeed. If you're willing to overlook the 60+ win seasons from those Cavs teams and their strong defensive numbers you'll see how they weren't quite as good as they appeared.

Clint Olbrock
01-31-2017, 08:34 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2017/01/31/charles-barkley-fired-back-at-lebron-were-never-going-to-be-friends/97304864/

Very anticlimactic response by Chuck.

D-Leethal
01-31-2017, 08:40 PM
That Boston Celtics team excelled in the half-court offense and wanted a slow-paced game. That's when they dominated with teamwork on both ends of the court. Thibs had established and sort of revolutionized the way defenses played with his schemes for the Celtics (primarily collapsing defenses that played zone on the weakside, making it difficult for superstars to score and/or pass to the open man).

The LAST way you want to face those Celtics teams was in the half-court, and if you didn't have the matchup advantages with the players then you were in for some trouble.

Those Cavs teams cruised through the regular season with a strict focus on defense and letting LeBron dominate and get open shots for the roleplayers. Mike Brown cemented his style of play and was successful. But when the playoffs came and teams could strategize to limit LeBron, THAT's when the ugliness of those Cavs teams were exposed.

In the 2009-10 playoffs, that Cavs team played at a slow pace (mostly in the halfcourt) off the backs of a 34-year old Jamison (34mpg in the playoffs), and a 34-year old Anthony Parker (30mpg in the playoffs). They didn't utilize JJ Hickson or Jamario Moon or any of the other athletic players well at all, mainly because those players just weren't good players. Our best players (other than 'Bron) were far less talented than the best players on the Celtics, and since we couldn't beat them athletically (lol Andy), they tore us apart in the halfcourt.

Those Cavs teams were easy to game-plan for and limit, and Thibs' defensive strategies really made it harder for 'Bron to succeed. If you're willing to overlook the 60+ win seasons from those Cavs teams and their strong defensive numbers you'll see how they weren't quite as good as they appeared.

I'm not willing to overlook that.

Chromehounds
01-31-2017, 08:43 PM
It's puzzling that people are giving LBJ props for standing up for himself, don't kids by age 7 or so started defending their point of view?
Anyway, Charles didn't question LBJ ability to play the game or off court dramas, he was stating the dude is a whiner, which most would agree. Most of the viewers would agree LBJ is a whiner and a very insecure a person. He proudly self-proclaimed himself the King. But here's the catch, when he Wins he is the best player in the world (the King), but when losing, he blames his teammates, the GM, the Owner and the neighbor's dog.
I've said it before, James is as fake as a 3-dollar bill; and it's about time someone called him out for who he is. ;)

More-Than-Most
01-31-2017, 09:09 PM
Barkley has ripped him for years and lebron has never done **** wrong unlike how much of a pos charles has been... lebron not taking the highroad for the first time deserves a flat out :clap:

good ****ing **** lebron

JasonJohnHorn
01-31-2017, 09:29 PM
Love Barkley growing up. As a kid, he was my favorite player, and not everything he's said here is fair. The kid-spitting incident, for example, was a matter of Barkely spitting on a guy who, if memory serves, was using racially charged terms for Barkley, and who then moved out of the way when Barkley spit on him, letting it land, unintentionally, on a little girl.

That said, LBJ is pretty much spot on with this.


Barkley has been caught drinking and driving, soliciting prostitution (on the same night) and doing any number of things. He complains about guys signing up for a super team? That's what he did: TWICE!!! It's just both times he failed to win. Once with Chambers, KJ, Thundr Tan-in-a-can Dan and Ainge (and a couple others), and then again with Hakeem, Drexler, and Pippen.

He complains about LBJ being friends with Wade ect? He went golfing and out for dinner with MJ when they were playing in the finals together, and was heavily criticized at the time for it.


By and large, the criticism Barkley has had of LBJ are criticism he could have just as easily levied against himself when he was playing. It makes no sense.

It is one thing for a commentator without that kind of history to question whether a friendship off the court impedes the killer instinct required to win on the court, of it teaming up with other All-Stars cheapens the win, but when you have yourself done those very same things, you are not in a position to be critical of others. The perspective you should provide is that of the insider who knows full well that these things are part of the game. It's like Barkley has no clue that he used to actually play the game.

In short: LBJ is right. Barkley is just putting his PHD (player hater degree) to poor use.


They hate us cause they ain't us.

Vee-Rex
01-31-2017, 09:48 PM
I'm not willing to overlook that.

That's unfortunate. The 1st seeded Atlanta Hawks in 2014-15 were nowhere near as good as the 2nd seeded Cavs.

The #1 seeded 2010-11 Bulls were nowhere near as good as the 2nd seeded Miami Heat.

I'm pretty sure I can give a lot of examples of this in the last decade. Just because a team is a higher seed DOES NOT mean they're the better team, it only means they were more successful during the regular season. Regular season success is crazy-dependent on so many factors.

There are a ton of variables that happen during the season (chemistry, roster changes, injuries, etc...) that might not be reflected in the end-season standings/statistics on who the better team is.

Edit: It sounds like you're saying that the team with the better regular season record is always the best team, but if they lose, it's only because the better team doesn't always win?

One of the better examples of how that's false is the Atlanta Hawks and Cleveland Cavs in 2014-15. I'd love to hear you try to argue about how the Hawks were the better team that simply lost to an inferior team.

tredigs
01-31-2017, 10:18 PM
Chucks says LBJ is being "inappropriate and whiny" while saying "you're the best player in the world and are already playing with 2 All Stars, nearly all of the off-season signings were his doing, do you have to be the favorite all the time? Why not just go out and be competitive?". Kenny when asked for his take echoes Chuck and says LBJ is just being inappropriate. Those are extremely reasonable, basketball related takes.

LBJ went full child mode in attempting to assassinate Chuck's character as a man. Chuck even made mention that Lebron was a great dude during the question he was posed. Nothing he said was a "hot take". We just had a thread on this and his opinion was square in line with the majority.

Chuck's response to LBJ's pettiness in saying that "Lebron got personal and that's fine. I'm doing my job and won't get personal about an NBA player". He goes on to mention that LBJ's accusations were not even all true, which is again a bad look for Lebron.

Nothing Chuck said was out of line, everything LBJ said was out of line. He is clearly having a breakdown of sorts and it's manifesting itself negatively not only for his own image, but to the detriment of his team. This is the worst stretch of an LBJ team in over a decade, and you can bet everything that if he had simply talked to management himself rather than looking to air his dirty laundry via the media, this would not be the case.

Fantastic entertainment, though. Loving LBJ's self imposed character assassination and allowing the neutral fan to see his inner man (hint: It's not a good look, and it's something I've picked up on for years now - hence me going from a big time LBJ supporter to simply not being able to stand the guy by Miami year 2).

Saddletramp
01-31-2017, 10:18 PM
So let me get this straight, Lebron "punked" Draymond by stepping over him to get back in a play and Draymond tried to slap his googles because he felt that Lebron had disrespected him as a man. And that's ok.

Barkley continuously calls out Lebron for being a whiner and Lebron finally shoots back because he feels that he's been disrespected as a man and that's just Lebron being a *****?


You guys are almost as hypocritical as the majority of Christians in this country.

tredigs
01-31-2017, 10:24 PM
That's unfortunate. The 1st seeded Atlanta Hawks in 2014-15 were nowhere near as good as the 2nd seeded Cavs.

The #1 seeded 2010-11 Bulls were nowhere near as good as the 2nd seeded Miami Heat.

I'm pretty sure I can give a lot of examples of this in the last decade. Just because a team is a higher seed DOES NOT mean they're the better team, it only means they were more successful during the regular season. Regular season success is crazy-dependent on so many factors.

There are a ton of variables that happen during the season (chemistry, roster changes, injuries, etc...) that might not be reflected in the end-season standings/statistics on who the better team is.

Edit: It sounds like you're saying that the team with the better regular season record is always the best team, but if they lose, it's only because the better team doesn't always win?

One of the better examples of how that's false is the Atlanta Hawks and Cleveland Cavs in 2014-15. I'd love to hear you try to argue about how the Hawks were the better team that simply lost to an inferior team.

The bottom line is that going into that Celtics/Cavs series (as well as countless others), the Cavs were seen as being clearly more dominant and expected to cruise to victory. You can spin that any way you want, but the smartest minds and most advanced statistical models had the Cavs as the better team. The Hawks were NOT favorites against the Cavs. Once again the Cavs were clear favorites in that series based on statistical models and those with the final say on picking the betting lines. The regular season W/L record is far from an end-all in who is ultimately considered a favorite or not.

Vee-Rex
01-31-2017, 11:00 PM
Tre,

Favorites /= better.

Yes, sometimes it involves hindsight. Sometimes we don't know it no matter how much data we have. I never mentioned what I thought before the series began but I'll share that:

I thought the Cavs were gonna smoke Boston in 5 games, 6 max. But after watching that series I realized the flaws of that Cavs team more than ever, and the strengths of that Boston team more than ever. I'd bet my life that if that Celtics team played that Cavs team 20 more times, they would win the majority. And gun to your head, I'd hope you would bet the same.

People just have a hard time admitting when they're wrong about favoring a team and just chalk it up to the better team losing. While that's possible, it's not always the case. Sometimes you, the fan, or the analysts, and all the people favoring one team are just flat out wrong.

tredigs
01-31-2017, 11:16 PM
Tre,

Favorites /= better.

Yes, sometimes it involves hindsight. Sometimes we don't know it no matter how much data we have. I never mentioned what I thought before the series began but I'll share that:

I thought the Cavs were gonna smoke Boston in 5 games, 6 max. But after watching that series I realized the flaws of that Cavs team more than ever, and the strengths of that Boston team more than ever. I'd bet my life that if that Celtics team played that Cavs team 20 more times, they would win the majority. And gun to your head, I'd hope you would bet the same.

People just have a hard time admitting when they're wrong about favoring a team and just chalk it up to the better team losing. While that's possible, it's not always the case. Sometimes you, the fan, or the analysts, and all the people favoring one team are just flat out wrong.
It's much easier to Monday Night QB the situation though. At the time, going in with all the information we had, the Cavs were thought to have the series in hand. Had LBJ not mysteriously gone apathetic for multiple games, we'd have had a much tougher fought series. It was the precursor to the Dallas series in seeing that he was capable of playing without passion on the biggest of stages.

D-Leethal
01-31-2017, 11:59 PM
That's unfortunate. The 1st seeded Atlanta Hawks in 2014-15 were nowhere near as good as the 2nd seeded Cavs.

The #1 seeded 2010-11 Bulls were nowhere near as good as the 2nd seeded Miami Heat.

I'm pretty sure I can give a lot of examples of this in the last decade. Just because a team is a higher seed DOES NOT mean they're the better team, it only means they were more successful during the regular season. Regular season success is crazy-dependent on so many factors.

There are a ton of variables that happen during the season (chemistry, roster changes, injuries, etc...) that might not be reflected in the end-season standings/statistics on who the better team is.

Edit: It sounds like you're saying that the team with the better regular season record is always the best team, but if they lose, it's only because the better team doesn't always win?

One of the better examples of how that's false is the Atlanta Hawks and Cleveland Cavs in 2014-15. I'd love to hear you try to argue about how the Hawks were the better team that simply lost to an inferior team.

I didn't say record. I said entire seasons body of work and statistical analysis. Maybe I was too vague, but over the course of a season you get a sense of who is better.

Vee-Rex
02-01-2017, 12:24 AM
Well, the entire seasons body of work would highlight the 08-09 Cavs as the best team in the East. But they were not better than the Magic.

I had a friend once that could normally outperform me in 1-on-1 and '33 and 2-on-2 (when we played with others). But when I decided to go all out and play my hardest, my defense smothered him and he couldn't handle me.

Sometimes, we don't truly know who's the best until we see them deadlocked in an intense, 7-game series. Not only is a team about the players, it's about coaching too. Mike Brown was so inflexible and clueless but that wasn't manifested until his teams were pushed to their limits.

If the overwhelmingly favorite Warriors got pushed to 7 games in rounds 1 and 2 then got swept by the Spurs with an avg loss of 30points, would they still be the best team that lost to an inferior or would they simply be inferior?

My vote is the latter, regardless of whether it's Monday night QB or not.

Vee-Rex
02-01-2017, 12:43 AM
I guess if I try to quantify my argument...

Team A plays at a level of 7 throughout the season. They're older, not going all out, and aren't utilizing a coaching advantage as much due to less scheming and game planning).

Team B plays at a level 9 throughout the season. They're faster, energetic, and can win games based on their aggressiveness. Their coach is simple and while he has great defensive philosophies, can't adjust at all and doesn't have a good offense scheme in place.

Team A has a ceiling of 12 in the playoffs, Team B has a ceiling of 10.

Ultimately, Team A is the better team. While a 7-game series can be arbitrary in determining the best team (best of 9 and the Dubs probably win 2016, best of 5 and KG would have 2 rings), it's what we have. It's our line in the sand, and the team that realizes their higher ceiling will be > than the other with the lower ceiling, regardless of everything that happened up til that point.

Jamiecballer
02-01-2017, 01:33 AM
I liked James before but man he really put chuck in his place here. Awesome stuff.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

More-Than-Most
02-01-2017, 01:44 AM
I still cant understand for the life of me how people can say lebron is whining for trying to better the team around him WHEN HE HAS A TEAM LIKE THE WARRIORS OUT THERE.... Its boggling my mind how some really smart posters can bash the guy for knowing his team isn't good enough which has become apparent considering how bad they are playing... This isnt a guy begging for a superstar... this is one of the smartest basketball minds from a player in the sport seeing an area of need and forcing the organizations hand... Its like this logic isnt comprehending and all people see is lebron and that auto hate happens... HIS TEAM ISNT GOOD ENOUGH... Why the **** wouldnt he want to make it better?

On top of this he got a promise from gilbert that if he came back they would do every and anything they could to make the team around him better.. Lebron held up his end and then some... Not only did he come back he got them a championship.

CTCUBBIES
02-01-2017, 03:04 AM
Lebron isn't a smart man and he's surrounded himself with yes men. Because of his ungodly talent basketball fans are forced to listen to what he says.

More Than Most - what more can Cavs do? Gilbert hasn't broken promises. They paid Thompson too much because of Lebron and his sports agency. Lebron wants to play GM and then cry when the wrong moves are made. He wants it both ways. How can you not see that?

More-Than-Most
02-01-2017, 03:54 AM
Lebron isn't a smart man and he's surrounded himself with yes men. Because of his ungodly talent basketball fans are forced to listen to what he says.

More Than Most - what more can Cavs do? Gilbert hasn't broken promises. They paid Thompson too much because of Lebron and his sports agency. Lebron wants to play GM and then cry when the wrong moves are made. He wants it both ways. How can you not see that?

what moves havent worked out exactly? what wrong moves? They just won a championship with said moves so there isnt any wrong moves... lebron isnt a smart man? is this real life? Lebron who fresh out of highchool with no degree has stayed out of trouble and is on the verge of being the next billion dollar basketball player who helped carry his close friends to become millionaires while being in movies/commercials etc etc etc isnt a smart man? REALLY? What has he done that wasnt smart exactly? he went and formed a super team and won titles... left them the second he had to carry the entire load because of their decline and went home and beat a much better team and brought the city of cleveland a championship in one of the best sport stories of all time....


Man this dude is a moron... making all those smart decisions... oh yea and he is the voice of the players and the face of the league and intervenes on sensitive subjects about race and black lives matter and so on... yea the dude is sooooooooooo dumb... he should do what other athletes do and gamble/cheat/have 12 kids/drink and drive/burn through his cash/***** about practice/spend millions on drugs and strip clubs/drink and drive and end up broke... ya know being a great human being when you are the focal point of the entire world and keeping your family out of the light and helping out the youths and etc clearly isnt the way to go

see this is the problem with the lebron haters... they cant see the difference... the hate clouds their judgement... you wanna have issues with his entitled attitude coming into the league or the decision which i have 0 issue with but whatever then that is fine.... people by pass all this other **** and hate on the dude but then look up to guys like charles or kobe and so on down the list that are/were great players but were vile human beings.

SteBO
02-01-2017, 09:09 AM
I still cant understand for the life of me how people can say lebron is whining for trying to better the team around him WHEN HE HAS A TEAM LIKE THE WARRIORS OUT THERE.... Its boggling my mind how some really smart posters can bash the guy for knowing his team isn't good enough which has become apparent considering how bad they are playing... This isnt a guy begging for a superstar... this is one of the smartest basketball minds from a player in the sport seeing an area of need and forcing the organizations hand... Its like this logic isnt comprehending and all people see is lebron and that auto hate happens... HIS TEAM ISNT GOOD ENOUGH... Why the **** wouldnt he want to make it better?

On top of this he got a promise from gilbert that if he came back they would do every and anything they could to make the team around him better.. Lebron held up his end and then some... Not only did he come back he got them a championship.
You're not wrong, but aside from Barkley saying he's not competitive, he was right in everything he said about LBJ. LeBron has been whiny even if the message was accurate, and to air it to the media, essentially calling out the other players on the team isn't good leadership no matter how you slice it. Also, having watched that TNT show for the longest time, Barkley has largely praised LeBron. His critique was mostly basketball related and LeBron took pot shots at Barkleys character and made it really personal. Charles is clearly in LeBrons head, and I hate to post it.

Vinylman
02-01-2017, 10:21 AM
You think he has that long of a window? It would be truly amazing

I said at the most... I really only think it is this year and next but I was trying to avoid the wrath of all the Lebron polesmokers in the forum...

I just don't think the way the team is constructed that they can add enough. Of course if a guy like Bosh comes back and plays for the minimum that could change things.

In all honesty I don't see Lebron in Cleveland more than another 2 years... I definitely think he will ring chase with someone like your Clippers

Blitzbolt
02-01-2017, 10:34 AM
I agree with Charles most if not all the reporters are afraid of LeBron.Barkley is 100% right on all his points.

Vinylman
02-01-2017, 11:02 AM
I still cant understand for the life of me how people can say lebron is whining for trying to better the team around him WHEN HE HAS A TEAM LIKE THE WARRIORS OUT THERE.... Its boggling my mind how some really smart posters can bash the guy for knowing his team isn't good enough which has become apparent considering how bad they are playing... This isnt a guy begging for a superstar... this is one of the smartest basketball minds from a player in the sport seeing an area of need and forcing the organizations hand... Its like this logic isnt comprehending and all people see is lebron and that auto hate happens... HIS TEAM ISNT GOOD ENOUGH... Why the **** wouldnt he want to make it better?

On top of this he got a promise from gilbert that if he came back they would do every and anything they could to make the team around him better.. Lebron held up his end and then some... Not only did he come back he got them a championship.

what do you want the Cavs to do? They have zero assets and are really only going to be able to pick someone up who gets cut or use the leftover AV TPE... they have no first rounders they can trade, very few 2nd rounders

The team won the chip last year but lost $40 million in the process... one of the worse financial performances ever by a franchise. They have the highest payroll in the NBA which will go up another $8-10 million next year.

To act like Gilbert and Griffin haven't stepped up is ridiculous

What is even more ridiculous is the bolded... the idea that Griffin and Gilbert get no credit is embarrassing...

This next comment isn't directed at you specifically but people need to get real... this whining is about one thing and one thing only...

Lebron is setting up his excuse to leave in two years and chase rings elsewhere... nothing more nothing less

BDawk4Prez
02-01-2017, 11:52 AM
I still cant understand for the life of me how people can say lebron is whining for trying to better the team around him WHEN HE HAS A TEAM LIKE THE WARRIORS OUT THERE.... Its boggling my mind how some really smart posters can bash the guy for knowing his team isn't good enough which has become apparent considering how bad they are playing... This isnt a guy begging for a superstar... this is one of the smartest basketball minds from a player in the sport seeing an area of need and forcing the organizations hand... Its like this logic isnt comprehending and all people see is lebron and that auto hate happens... HIS TEAM ISNT GOOD ENOUGH... Why the **** wouldnt he want to make it better?

On top of this he got a promise from gilbert that if he came back they would do every and anything they could to make the team around him better.. Lebron held up his end and then some... Not only did he come back he got them a championship.

So basically Lebron is Rodgers?

BDawk4Prez
02-01-2017, 11:53 AM
Chucks says LBJ is being "inappropriate and whiny" while saying "you're the best player in the world and are already playing with 2 All Stars, nearly all of the off-season signings were his doing, do you have to be the favorite all the time? Why not just go out and be competitive?". Kenny when asked for his take echoes Chuck and says LBJ is just being inappropriate. Those are extremely reasonable, basketball related takes.

LBJ went full child mode in attempting to assassinate Chuck's character as a man. Chuck even made mention that Lebron was a great dude during the question he was posed. Nothing he said was a "hot take". We just had a thread on this and his opinion was square in line with the majority.

Chuck's response to LBJ's pettiness in saying that "Lebron got personal and that's fine. I'm doing my job and won't get personal about an NBA player". He goes on to mention that LBJ's accusations were not even all true, which is again a bad look for Lebron.

Nothing Chuck said was out of line, everything LBJ said was out of line. He is clearly having a breakdown of sorts and it's manifesting itself negatively not only for his own image, but to the detriment of his team. This is the worst stretch of an LBJ team in over a decade, and you can bet everything that if he had simply talked to management himself rather than looking to air his dirty laundry via the media, this would not be the case.

Fantastic entertainment, though. Loving LBJ's self imposed character assassination and allowing the neutral fan to see his inner man (hint: It's not a good look, and it's something I've picked up on for years now - hence me going from a big time LBJ supporter to simply not being able to stand the guy by Miami year 2).

Excellent post.

PowerHouse
02-01-2017, 12:24 PM
dude, you are so biased it's unreal. Barkley knew loyalty? Haha

if free agency were actually allowed in the 80's, your whole world would be different when it came to NBA devotion.

???

It was.

1988 counts as 80s.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 12:31 PM
???

It was.

1988 counts as 80s.

sure it does. Show me the free agency movement through the 80's...

won't be all that long of a list. Point is, these stars of yesterday talk out of their *** when it comes to "loyalty". Forced trades were in like denim back in the day because of non-existent free agency, and even when it started, it wasn't used by the needle movers of the league.

ewing
02-01-2017, 12:35 PM
sure it does. Show me the free agency movement through the 80's...

won't be all that long of a list. Point is, these stars of yesterday talk out of their *** when it comes to "loyalty". Forced trades were in like denim back in the day because of non-existent free agency, and even when it started, it wasn't used by the needle movers of the league.

show me the superstar that forced a trade from his team when he was on the door step then did it again after getting to 4 straight finals. Bron's a *****. If it was 1680 i'd think he's a *****

Chromehounds
02-01-2017, 12:47 PM
So let me get this straight, Lebron "punked" Draymond by stepping over him to get back in a play and Draymond tried to slap his googles because he felt that Lebron had disrespected him as a man. And that's ok.

Barkley continuously calls out Lebron for being a whiner and Lebron finally shoots back because he feels that he's been disrespected as a man and that's just Lebron being a *****?


You guys are almost as hypocritical as the majority of Christians in this country.

Amen to that! ;)

valade16
02-01-2017, 12:50 PM
show me the superstar that forced a trade from his team when he was on the door step then did it again after getting to 4 straight finals. Bron's a *****. If it was 1680 i'd think he's a *****

First LeBron didn't force a trade either time. But if we're talking actual superstars who did force trades Kareem is a good example. He won a title with Milwaukee and actually lost in the finals the year before he demanded a trade toa bigger market.

Shaq up and left Orlando as a FA despite having gone to the Finals.

Very good players have left very good teams before LeBron.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 12:59 PM
show me the superstar that forced a trade from his team when he was on the door step then did it again after getting to 4 straight finals. Bron's a *****. If it was 1680 i'd think he's a *****

my other top 3 player, KAJ is an easy example.

I get it, you can't stand LeBron.

By the way, LeBron never forced a trade. He left after fulfilling his contractual obligation to join another team. It happens a zillion times a year in the business world.

aman_13
02-01-2017, 01:23 PM
Barkley did respond and it seems like he's taking the high road. He just reiterated what he said last week.

ewing
02-01-2017, 01:31 PM
my other top 3 player, KAJ is an easy example.

I get it, you can't stand LeBron.

By the way, LeBron never forced a trade. He left after fulfilling his contractual obligation to join another team. It happens a zillion times a year in the business world.

he's not a businessman he is a basketball player

Vinylman
02-01-2017, 01:36 PM
First LeBron didn't force a trade either time. But if we're talking actual superstars who did force trades Kareem is a good example. He won a title with Milwaukee and actually lost in the finals the year before he demanded a trade toa bigger market.

Shaq up and left Orlando as a FA despite having gone to the Finals.

Very good players have left very good teams before LeBron.

KAJ wanted out and to a bigger market so he could make more money. it had nothing to do with competitiveness... Lebron left and made less

Shaq left because the Magic FO low balled him... there was no way he was leaving Orlando if they had paid him... Maybe you aren't old enough to remember how it went down but I suggest you watch that 30/30... Mournings offer from Miami set the market and Orlando waited to long to lock up Shaq.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 01:36 PM
he's not a businessman he is a basketball player

you can't really believe that, right?

Look, you can hate a guy for wearing blue, I don't care. Whatever floats your boat, just be consistent...

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 01:38 PM
KAJ wanted out and to a bigger market so he could make more money. it had nothing to do with competitiveness... Lebron left and made less

Shaq left because the Magic FO low balled him... there was no way he was leaving Orlando if they had paid him... Maybe you aren't old enough to remember how it went down but I suggest you watch that 30/30... Mournings offer from Miami set the market and Orlando waited to long to lock up Shaq.

Point is, people have left great situations to pursue other situations.

People can hate on LeBron for any reason they wish. But trying to push him as the pioneer for exploring free agency is b.s.

ewing
02-01-2017, 01:40 PM
First LeBron didn't force a trade either time. But if we're talking actual superstars who did force trades Kareem is a good example. He won a title with Milwaukee and actually lost in the finals the year before he demanded a trade toa bigger market.

Shaq up and left Orlando as a FA despite having gone to the Finals.

Very good players have left very good teams before LeBron.


Hawk was comparing forcing a trade then to free agency now. I didn't like how Shaq did Orlando either. Apparently, they did try to low ball him at first which seems crazy... anyway, LBJ and KD are clearly *****es.

MarkieMark48
02-01-2017, 01:42 PM
you can't really believe that, right?

Look, you can hate a guy for wearing blue, I don't care. Whatever floats your boat, just be consistent...

:laugh:

ewing
02-01-2017, 01:42 PM
you can't really believe that, right?

Look, you can hate a guy for wearing blue, I don't care. Whatever floats your boat, just be consistent...

No and that is why he is a *****.

ewing
02-01-2017, 01:52 PM
anytime your defense of a pro althete is "well he's a businessman", that athlete is a tool bag

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 02:09 PM
No and that is why he is a *****.

at least you own up to your irrational despise of LeBron. Kudos senior'

valade16
02-01-2017, 02:25 PM
anytime your defense of a pro althete is "well he's a businessman, that athlete is a tool bag

So Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is a toolbag no?

Vinylman
02-01-2017, 02:27 PM
Point is, people have left great situations to pursue other situations.

People can hate on LeBron for any reason they wish. But trying to push him as the pioneer for exploring free agency is b.s.

I am not hating on Lebron... I am just saying that historically due to the limited pay in the NBA players primary reason wasn't to move to win but rather to make money.

Vinylman
02-01-2017, 02:28 PM
Barkley did respond and it seems like he's taking the high road. He just reiterated what he said last week.

I knew he would puss out

ewing
02-01-2017, 02:34 PM
So Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is a toolbag no?

Thats too old for me to comment but i do know he was considered a jerk off

SteBO
02-01-2017, 02:42 PM
Point is, people have left great situations to pursue other situations.

People can hate on LeBron for any reason they wish. But trying to push him as the pioneer for exploring free agency is b.s.
Hawkeye I'm sure you understand. He's a pioneer in the eyes of many in a sense that he created a superteam in Miami that nobody outside of Miami liked for stupid and petty reasons that stem from the fact he didn't go to their team. They hate that he had exercised that power. Nobody would've *****ed had he stayed in CLE or if he got traded.

ewing
02-01-2017, 02:47 PM
Hawkeye I'm sure you understand. He's a pioneer in the eyes of many in a sense that he created a superteam in Miami that nobody outside of Miami liked for stupid and petty reasons that stem from the fact he didn't go to their team. They hate that he had exercised that power. Nobody would've *****ed had he stayed in CLE or if he got traded.


I never liked LeBron and Wade was always my least favorite superstar to watch in his prime. Believe it or not some people don't like the players you root for and it has nothing to do with jealousy

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 02:54 PM
I am not hating on Lebron... I am just saying that historically due to the limited pay in the NBA players primary reason wasn't to move to win but rather to make money.

absolutely it was. It's so different now. Guys make so much, so early, that the motivations absolutely change.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 02:56 PM
Hawkeye I'm sure you understand. He's a pioneer in the eyes of many in a sense that he created a superteam in Miami that nobody outside of Miami liked for stupid and petty reasons that stem from the fact he didn't go to their team. They hate that he had exercised that power. Nobody would've *****ed had he stayed in CLE or if he got traded.

I get the circumstances. The free agency period of 2010, is something we have never seen before. LeBron, and his FA class, just happened to be the class, and group of players, that will be recognized as the wave of the next concept in how to build teams.

I get it. LeBron will have it held against him, despite the fact that he simply was playing at the right time, in the right place. What happened was coming anyways.

Vinylman
02-01-2017, 03:06 PM
absolutely it was. It's so different now. Guys make so much, so early, that the motivations absolutely change.

The NBA is what it is now. The brand will decline if the superteam trend continues as it is really only appealing to the casual fan who watches the playoffs and more specifically the finals...

the regular season is complete garbage at this point with guys taking days off and the real lack of rivalries...

The NBA is on the same glide path as the NFL was in popularity... It will eventually level off and decline as the NFL has started to this year. Obviously for different reasons (NBA's lack of competitiveness and the wussification of the NFL). Both Leagues have set up the rules to gain viewership with casual fans rather than the hardcore.

Vinylman
02-01-2017, 03:08 PM
I get the circumstances. The free agency period of 2010, is something we have never seen before. LeBron, and his FA class, just happened to be the class, and group of players, that will be recognized as the wave of the next concept in how to build teams.

I get it. LeBron will have it held against him, despite the fact that he simply was playing at the right time, in the right place. What happened was coming anyways.

The NBA likes the offseason drama... hell, people get more excited around draft time and FA because there is no hope for 80% of the teams in the regular season. it is the one time teams like the Kings can actually have a glimmer of hope

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 03:10 PM
The NBA likes the offseason drama... hell, people get more excited around draft time and FA because there is no hope for 80% of the teams in the regular season. it is the one time teams like the Kings can actually have a glimmer of hope

you are talking to a Wolves fan dude....

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 03:26 PM
he's not a businessman he is a basketball player

Well that's a dumb statement.

ewing
02-01-2017, 03:33 PM
^^^^ so funny i forgot to laugh

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 03:33 PM
So Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is a toolbag no?

And don't forget Magic.


I was about to name off a list but honestly, they're all businessmen. Nobody's playing for free. This is a really stupid argument.

Bostonjorge
02-01-2017, 03:34 PM
Lebron fans come off as whinny. They want James to be the enormous favorite every year. They want lebron to have all the good players and don't want lebron to compete.

Now I can ses how James got this way.

James has Kevin love who's is averaging Paul Gasol in LA numbers. Every other great in history would think that's enough to win. Only lebron needs more help then Gasol/Love to win. When the day comes when James wins without a super stacked team then we can take THAT ring seriously.

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 03:35 PM
^^^^ so funny i forgot to laugh

It wasn't a joke. It's ****ing stupid.

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 03:39 PM
Lebron fans come off as whinny. They want James to be the enormous favorite every year. They want lebron to have all the good players and don't want lebron to compete.

Now I can ses how James got this way.

James has Kevin love who's is averaging Paul Gasol in LA numbers. Every other great in history would think that's enough to win. Only lebron needs more help then Gasol/Love to win. When the day comes when James wins without a super stacked team then we can take THAT ring seriously.

Lebron haters come off as whiney. They keep coming up with reasons why they don't like him. I'm not wasting time on you to continue, you're not worth it.

But I'm curious as to what you think about Durant.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 03:47 PM
Lebron fans come off as whinny. They want James to be the enormous favorite every year. They want lebron to have all the good players and don't want lebron to compete.

Now I can ses how James got this way.

James has Kevin love who's is averaging Paul Gasol in LA numbers. Every other great in history would think that's enough to win. Only lebron needs more help then Gasol/Love to win. When the day comes when James wins without a super stacked team then we can take THAT ring seriously.

haters always come off as babies

ewing
02-01-2017, 03:57 PM
And don't forget Magic.


I was about to name off a list but honestly, they're all businessmen. Nobody's playing for free. This is a really stupid argument.

of course they are not playing for free. if you're main interest is your brand and your legacy you're a tool

ewing
02-01-2017, 03:58 PM
And don't forget Magic.


I was about to name off a list but honestly, they're all businessmen. Nobody's playing for free. This is a really stupid argument.

most of them don't have people saying "well he's a businessman" to justify douchy selfish behavior

Vee-Rex
02-01-2017, 04:04 PM
most of them don't have people saying "well he's a businessman" to justify douchy selfish behavior

If your argument is that LeBron is a douche or selfish, I think most people would agree with you. Others are simply saying that if those are the parameters for hating someone, then you should probably hate a lot of NBA players.

If you hate LeBron more because of specific douche/selfish moments that just bug you more than the douchey events from other players, then that's YOUR personal vendetta.

You can understand this, I'm sure?

MarkieMark48
02-01-2017, 04:18 PM
Lebron fans come off as whinny. They want James to be the enormous favorite every year. They want lebron to have all the good players and don't want lebron to compete.

Now I can ses how James got this way.

James has Kevin love who's is averaging Paul Gasol in LA numbers. Every other great in history would think that's enough to win. Only lebron needs more help then Gasol/Love to win. When the day comes when James wins without a super stacked team then we can take THAT ring seriously.

This post :laugh::laugh::laugh:

WestCoastSportz
02-01-2017, 04:32 PM
Lebron is starting to sound like a big cry baby. Man up! He says he wants to compete but his salary takes up 33% of the cap so he's not going to get the supporting cast he wants or needs. How did Golden State do it? Lebron's $31M a year salary is the same as Klay Thompson and Draymond Green's combined salaries which are $15M and $16M. You don't think those guys could have gotten more money? Steph Curry makes $12M this year. And here is Lebron making the most money in the league. The cap is in place to level the playing field and that rarely works, but the Warriors have found a way to make it work. If Lebron really wanted to compete, he'd take less money so that the team would have the ability to sign better players. The guy makes gobs of money from his sponsors like Nike, Kia, Coca Cola, Samsung, Beats and others. He makes around $50M a year just from endorsements alone. Does he really need to handicap his team with the highest salary in the league?

And this guy has helped this team make bad decisions. He wanted JR Smith here and he makes $13M a year and that number rises every year. Tristan Thompson makes $15M a year which is the same as Klay Thompson. Who would you rather have at that price? If they had a real coach, they would be a better team. Lets face it. Tyron Lue is nothing more than a Lebron puppet that runs the offense how Lebron wants it ran.

In the end, Lebron just wants to get paid so that he can take care of his posse and there is not shame in that. Just keep your mouth shut, get paid lots of money doing something you love and life goes on. But don't come out saying how bad you want to compete or this and that. At that point, it becomes pretentious.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-01-2017, 04:36 PM
I don't have a problem with Lebron asking for more help but he didn't need to go after Barkley personally like that. If he said something about him not winning a title and stuff, I wouldn't have a problem but not about gambling and stuff.

Vee-Rex
02-01-2017, 04:40 PM
Lebron is starting to sound like a big cry baby. Man up! He says he wants to compete but his salary takes up 33% of the cap so he's not going to get the supporting cast he wants or needs. How did Golden State do it? Lebron's $31M a year salary is the same as Klay Thompson and Draymond Green's combined salaries which are $15M and $16M. You don't think those guys could have gotten more money? Steph Curry makes $12M this year. And here is Lebron making the most money in the league. The cap is in place to level the playing field and that rarely works, but the Warriors have found a way to make it work. If Lebron really wanted to compete, he'd take less money so that the team would have the ability to sign better players. The guy makes gobs of money from his sponsors like Nike, Kia, Coca Cola, Samsung, Beats and others. He makes around $50M a year just from endorsements alone. Does he really need to handicap his team with the highest salary in the league?

And this guy has helped this team make bad decisions. He wanted JR Smith here and he makes $13M a year and that number rises every year. Tristan Thompson makes $15M a year which is the same as Klay Thompson. Who would you rather have at that price? If they had a real coach, they would be a better team. Lets face it. Tyron Lue is nothing more than a Lebron puppet that runs the offense how Lebron wants it ran.

In the end, Lebron just wants to get paid so that he can take care of his posse and there is not shame in that. Just keep your mouth shut, get paid lots of money doing something you love and life goes on. But don't come out saying how bad you want to compete or this and that. At that point, it becomes pretentious.

I get your point and agree (LeBron could've handled this all much better), but I don't think you should compare the contract/salary situation of the Cavs to that of the Warriors.

The Warriors are an extreme outlier right now. But things will get financially ugly for them soon.

Chronz
02-01-2017, 04:43 PM
of course they are not playing for free. if you're main interest is your brand and your legacy you're a tool

You must love kd

IKnowHoops
02-01-2017, 05:00 PM
This just proves once again that LeBron is the most weak minded among the best that ever played the game. No wonder he had to join forces with other superstars to win, and he's currently whinning about wanting the world handed to him on a silver platter to enable him to continue winning.

Glad Barkley called him out on it. Too many people are scared to say it.

Actually it doesn't prove that at all.

Jordan got his feelings hurt by Barkley too and now once great friends haven't talked in years. Micheal was much more butt hurt over much less. I guess Jordan is the most mentally weak.

SteBO
02-01-2017, 05:15 PM
I never liked LeBron and Wade was always my least favorite superstar to watch in his prime. Believe it or not some people don't like the players you root for and it has nothing to do with jealousy
Nor do they have to, but I for one will never hesitate to call out idiotic reasoning if I feel like it. Just funny how the reasons for hating certain players can be just down right ridiculous and having been around many people of your ilk over the years, it largely has stemmed from envy. Doesn't have to apply to you though.

Chronz
02-01-2017, 05:22 PM
Actually it doesn't prove that at all.

Jordan got his feelings hurt by Barkley too and now once great friends haven't talked in years. Micheal was much more butt hurt over much less. I guess Jordan is the most mentally weak.

Definitely. At least Bron doesn't threaten to retire if his team dare trade away his binkie.

Vee-Rex
02-01-2017, 05:23 PM
Actually it doesn't prove that at all.

Jordan got his feelings hurt by Barkley too and now once great friends haven't talked in years. Micheal was much more butt hurt over much less. I guess Jordan is the most mentally weak.

Heh.

I mean, if people want to dislike LeBron - fine. He's not my favorite person. But some of the reasons behind it are just ridiculous.

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

-Michael Jordan

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

-Michael Jordan

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

-Michael Jordan

"I want to prove the critics wrong... I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

-Michael Jordan

Of course, MJ is too precious/perfect in the eyes of everyone to criticize but when LeBron says similar things, he's a ***** and he's not competitive.

ewing
02-01-2017, 05:37 PM
When you win every time you are above criticism


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Bostonjorge
02-01-2017, 05:42 PM
Heh.

I mean, if people want to dislike LeBron - fine. He's not my favorite person. But some of the reasons behind it are just ridiculous.

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

-Michael Jordan

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

-Michael Jordan

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

-Michael Jordan

"I want to prove the critics wrong... I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

-Michael Jordan

Of course, MJ is too precious/perfect in the eyes of everyone to criticize but when LeBron says similar things, he's a ***** and he's not competitive.

Jordan was just trying to build the type of team that James has now. Mangment has always told all the greats that the Miami and Cleveland type teams where in possible to build. What make James a whinny non competing coward is he has/had those teams and he's still trying to build a even more super team.

The term super team in the NBA started with James. Now he's complaining that other players are taking his road to a ring. Just play with who you have and compete.

papipapsmanny
02-01-2017, 05:44 PM
Heh.

I mean, if people want to dislike LeBron - fine. He's not my favorite person. But some of the reasons behind it are just ridiculous.

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

-Michael Jordan

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

-Michael Jordan

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

-Michael Jordan

"I want to prove the critics wrong... I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

-Michael Jordan

Of course, MJ is too precious/perfect in the eyes of everyone to criticize but when LeBron says similar things, he's a ***** and he's not competitive.

Yeah but when are these quotes? Probably during the time that we won 3 ships in a row, left and then came back and won 3 more.

I like how people think that Lebron is unliked and that it is for no reason at all. I can come up with a lot, everyone can

Vee-Rex
02-01-2017, 05:52 PM
And the excuses for Jordan are rolling in. :laugh2:


Jordan was just trying to build the type of team that James has now. Mangment has always told all the greats that the Miami and Cleveland type teams where in possible to build. What make James a whinny non competing coward is he has/had those teams and he's still trying to build a even more super team.

Jordan also wasn't staring down a freaking behemoth in the Golden State Warriors during his time. No team Jordan has faced had the talent that the Warriors do now.


I like how people think that Lebron is unliked and that it is for no reason at all. I can come up with a lot, everyone can

I can probably one-up you and list more reasons LeBron is unliked.

That doesn't mean I can't point out the unfair double-standards held against him and things he is severely persecuted for that are ridiculous.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 05:52 PM
When you win every time you are above criticism


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how come Trump is getting crushed?

Hawkeye15
02-01-2017, 05:53 PM
Heh.

I mean, if people want to dislike LeBron - fine. He's not my favorite person. But some of the reasons behind it are just ridiculous.

"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."

-Michael Jordan

"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better."

-Michael Jordan

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

-Michael Jordan

"I want to prove the critics wrong... I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet..."

-Michael Jordan

Of course, MJ is too precious/perfect in the eyes of everyone to criticize but when LeBron says similar things, he's a ***** and he's not competitive.

Jordan would have had a ton of haters today if social media was up his *** every moment of his life. Such is the world we live in....MJ just happened to be the man prior to everyone getting second by second updates when he farted

Chronz
02-01-2017, 06:08 PM
Jordan was just trying to build the type of team that James has now. Mangment has always told all the greats that the Miami and Cleveland type teams where in possible to build. What make James a whinny non competing coward is he has/had those teams and he's still trying to build a even more super team.

The term super team in the NBA started with James. Now he's complaining that other players are taking his road to a ring. Just play with who you have and compete.
Nothing you said was true. The bulls without mj were better than any team without Bron

ewing
02-01-2017, 06:15 PM
You must love kd


total *****.

ewing
02-01-2017, 06:16 PM
how come Trump is getting crushed?


who doesn't like Trump :confused:

Chronz
02-01-2017, 06:49 PM
Cleveland is at the point where they need to stop worrying about winning games and start preserving their legs for the PS. AKA the Boston/SAS route with older stars.

Chronz
02-01-2017, 06:50 PM
who doesn't like Trump :confused:

The majority of your country, apparently.

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 07:01 PM
When you win every time you are above criticism


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn't think your take on this matter could get any dumber. You keep surprising me.

kdspurman
02-01-2017, 07:12 PM
Cleveland is at the point where they need to stop worrying about winning games and start preserving their legs for the PS. AKA the Boston/SAS route with older stars.

Especially in the freaking east man. They should be trying to develop some of those younger guards they got for the time being

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 07:14 PM
Lebron is starting to sound like a big cry baby. Man up! He says he wants to compete but his salary takes up 33% of the cap so he's not going to get the supporting cast he wants or needs. How did Golden State do it? Lebron's $31M a year salary is the same as Klay Thompson and Draymond Green's combined salaries which are $15M and $16M. You don't think those guys could have gotten more money? Steph Curry makes $12M this year. And here is Lebron making the most money in the league. The cap is in place to level the playing field and that rarely works, but the Warriors have found a way to make it work. If Lebron really wanted to compete, he'd take less money so that the team would have the ability to sign better players. The guy makes gobs of money from his sponsors like Nike, Kia, Coca Cola, Samsung, Beats and others. He makes around $50M a year just from endorsements alone. Does he really need to handicap his team with the highest salary in the league?

And this guy has helped this team make bad decisions. He wanted JR Smith here and he makes $13M a year and that number rises every year. Tristan Thompson makes $15M a year which is the same as Klay Thompson. Who would you rather have at that price? If they had a real coach, they would be a better team. Lets face it. Tyron Lue is nothing more than a Lebron puppet that runs the offense how Lebron wants it ran.

In the end, Lebron just wants to get paid so that he can take care of his posse and there is not shame in that. Just keep your mouth shut, get paid lots of money doing something you love and life goes on. But don't come out saying how bad you want to compete or this and that. At that point, it becomes pretentious.

Klay and Green didn't take max money but close enough. Curry got his deal because of his ankles and he wasn't MVP Curry at the time he re-signed. In a few years, someone will be pushed out, they just had extreme luck (salary wise) that everything gelled when it did.


But I'm with you in regards to making x amount of dollars in endorsements helps soothe the discount some of these guys could take to win. But at the end of the day, it's not my money and I don't see a lot of Top Ten guys taking discounts. End of career like Dirk or Duncan? Yeah, but they're few and far between.

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 07:17 PM
who doesn't like Trump :confused:

Ahhhhhh, you just explained some things. Thanks for clearing that up.

Chronz
02-01-2017, 07:35 PM
Klay and Green didn't take max money but close enough. Curry got his deal because of his ankles and he wasn't MVP Curry at the time he re-signed. In a few years, someone will be pushed out, they just had extreme luck (salary wise) that everything gelled when it did.


But I'm with you in regards to making x amount of dollars in endorsements helps soothe the discount some of these guys could take to win. But at the end of the day, it's not my money and I don't see a lot of Top Ten guys taking discounts. End of career like Dirk or Duncan? Yeah, but they're few and far between.

Duncan took discounts. And the spurs played Manu so sparingly that it deflated his true market value. Remember when even the spurs told Manu to go find his best offer. Wonder how he does in Denver before the spurs matched

ewing
02-01-2017, 07:40 PM
Ahhhhhh, you just explained some things. Thanks for clearing that up.

come on, that actually was funny :)

Bostonjorge
02-01-2017, 08:08 PM
Nothing you said was true. The bulls without mj were better than any team without Bron

This Cavs team without James can make the eastern finals no problem. Kolver led Atlanta that far so he can do it again with a much more stacked team in a Lebron less Cavs team.

More-Than-Most
02-01-2017, 08:22 PM
This Cavs team without James can make the eastern finals no problem. Kolver led Atlanta that far so he can do it again with a much more stacked team in a Lebron less Cavs team.

:laugh:

the cavs team without lebron doesnt make the playoffs.

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 08:24 PM
:laugh:

the cavs team without lebron doesnt make the playoffs.

I wouldn't go that far (it's the East, remember?) but they're not a threat. And did he really say that Korver lead the Hawks to the ECF? That's LOL.

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 08:25 PM
Duncan took discounts. And the spurs played Manu so sparingly that it deflated his true market value. Remember when even the spurs told Manu to go find his best offer. Wonder how he does in Denver before the spurs matched

The Spurs are a different beast all together. But again, few and far between.

papipapsmanny
02-01-2017, 08:27 PM
Nothing you said was true. The bulls without mj were better than any team without Bron

That is highly debatable. This first year without MJ the Bulls lost in the semi's something the Cavs team could easily do over the last 3 seasons without Lebron.

The toughest competition that Lebron has ever faced in his string of playing in the finals was the Celtics team after they had peaked.... who after that? The Paul George led Pacers.

His road to the finals has been extremely easy

papipapsmanny
02-01-2017, 08:31 PM
:laugh:

the cavs team without lebron doesnt make the playoffs.

That is a joke right. Assuming health you have Kyrie-Korver-Whoever replaces him at SF - Love - Thompson with JR Smith off the bench, you don't think that makes the playoffs in the East?

That would be right in the clump of teams 2-8 right now

valade16
02-01-2017, 08:37 PM
Nothing you said was true. The bulls without mj were better than any team without Bron

I do wonder how that first year Heat team without Bron would do. Wade was still a superstar level player and Bosh could've assumed a bigger role at that point. Both were relatively healthy in the regular season. I have to think that team makes the 2nd Rd

Chronz
02-01-2017, 08:53 PM
This Cavs team without James can make the eastern finals no problem. Kolver led Atlanta that far so he can do it again with a much more stacked team in a Lebron less Cavs team.

The same Korver that has seen a decline in his efficiency and has coincided with Clevelands worst defensive efforts?


Why do you guys troll me ? Am I just a magnet for trolls?

Chronz
02-01-2017, 08:59 PM
That is highly debatable. This first year without MJ the Bulls lost in the semi's something the Cavs team could easily do over the last 3 seasons without Lebron.
3? So their utter collapses over that span without Bron available for the games OR his minutes on the court, are to be ignored? What makes it debatable to you? Show me some inkling of causality. Once we get there, then I can ask you why I would care about reaching an arbitrary round of the playoffs. I've seen superior teams lose in R.1 to teams that made the NBA Finals FFS. Why do you think I would limit myself to such an idiotic standard?


The toughest competition that Lebron has ever faced in his string of playing in the finals was the Celtics team after they had peaked.... who after that? The Paul George led Pacers.

His road to the finals has been extremely easy

Yeah and the statistical probabilities of winning ALL of those rounds is STILL impressive. Do you not know how many would be favorites crumble over that span? I dont care how many Finals Bron makes, thats an arbitrary measure YOU try to impose upon my argument. I care about how he plays given the competition. In other words, CONTEXT isn't a word you can cling to like so many attempt.

Chronz
02-01-2017, 09:00 PM
I do wonder how that first year Heat team without Bron would do. Wade was still a superstar level player and Bosh could've assumed a bigger role at that point. Both were relatively healthy in the regular season. I have to think that team makes the 2nd Rd

I think they make the ECF at best but again, that depends on matchups more than quality of play.

papipapsmanny
02-01-2017, 09:23 PM
3? So their utter collapses over that span without Bron available for the games OR his minutes on the court, are to be ignored? What makes it debatable to you? Show me some inkling of causality. Once we get there, then I can ask you why I would care about reaching an arbitrary round of the playoffs. I've seen superior teams lose in R.1 to teams that made the NBA Finals FFS. Why do you think I would limit myself to such an idiotic standard?


Yeah and the statistical probabilities of winning ALL of those rounds is STILL impressive. Do you not know how many would be favorites crumble over that span? I dont care how many Finals Bron makes, thats an arbitrary measure YOU try to impose upon my argument. I care about how he plays given the competition. In other words, CONTEXT isn't a word you can cling to like so many attempt.

Yeah and his competition sucks. Switch the Spurs to the east and they run a train. You act like this in college BB, no this is the NBA upsets are few in far between in the playoffs. Context is part of an argument it's not really my problem if you choose to ignore it

Lebron fans like to continually run with the narrative that the talent around him actually isn't as good as it is. It started in Miami when we were all supposed to think the Wade and Bosh weren't actually any good anymore, or now in Cleveland where Kyrie and Love are actually that good either.

He didn't have much his first time in Cleveland I'll give him that, but he has had by far the best supporting cast around from his Miami days until this year where now he has the 2nd best talent around him (see Warriors).

Again is is crying because he is getting beat by the game he created, and it looks like he is crying because he only has so much more time to get 6 more rings

Bostonjorge
02-01-2017, 10:00 PM
Today Atlanta best player is Milshap. Love is out rebounding and out scoring milshap but milshap can carry Atlanta to the playoffs but love can't? How does that make any sense?

Cavs remove James and they will make the east finals. They would sweep Atlanta along the way. It's not hard to see. You replace James with prime Barkley and Cavs win a title. So James is just doing what any 50 greatest player ever can do. Win a ring with all the best players on one team.

Saddletramp
02-01-2017, 10:29 PM
Yeah and his competition sucks. Switch the Spurs to the east and they run a train. You act like this in college BB, no this is the NBA upsets are few in far between in the playoffs. Context is part of an argument it's not really my problem if you choose to ignore it

Lebron fans like to continually run with the narrative that the talent around him actually isn't as good as it is. It started in Miami when we were all supposed to think the Wade and Bosh weren't actually any good anymore, or now in Cleveland where Kyrie and Love are actually that good either.

He didn't have much his first time in Cleveland I'll give him that, but he has had by far the best supporting cast around from his Miami days until this year where now he has the 2nd best talent around him (see Warriors).

Again is is crying because he is getting beat by the game he created, and it looks like he is crying because he only has so much more time to get 6 more rings

That's why he wants more firepower? Because he and everyone including his detractors (silently) agree that they're second tier right now? Thanks for saying what others of your ilk won't. I'm sure the I Hate Lebron fan club will be kicking you out within the day.

papipapsmanny
02-01-2017, 11:43 PM
That's why he wants more firepower? Because he and everyone including his detractors (silently) agree that they're second tier right now? Thanks for saying what others of your ilk won't. I'm sure the I Hate Lebron fan club will be kicking you out within the day.

What's wrong with that statement? I mentioned the Warriors are just beating Lebron at the game he created, and now he is *****ing about it.

Saddletramp
02-02-2017, 01:37 AM
What's wrong with that statement? I mentioned the Warriors are just beating Lebron at the game he created, and now he is *****ing about it.

So he sees that they need more help? The Warriors added Durant. The Cavs added no one in the offseason (worth a ****) and Korver a few weeks ago. And Korver ain't no Kevin Durant.


Lol.

MarkieMark48
02-02-2017, 09:07 AM
Today Atlanta best player is Milshap. Love is out rebounding and out scoring milshap but milshap can carry Atlanta to the playoffs but love can't? How does that make any sense?


Love did a great Job leading Minnesota to all their deep playoff runs while he was putting up great numbers in the stat columns

:laugh:

ewing
02-02-2017, 09:58 AM
I didn't think your take on this matter could get any dumber. You keep surprising me.

You mad?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hawkeye15
02-02-2017, 10:31 AM
Today Atlanta best player is Milshap. Love is out rebounding and out scoring milshap but milshap can carry Atlanta to the playoffs but love can't? How does that make any sense?

Cavs remove James and they will make the east finals. They would sweep Atlanta along the way. It's not hard to see. You replace James with prime Barkley and Cavs win a title. So James is just doing what any 50 greatest player ever can do. Win a ring with all the best players on one team.

you ever....take a gander at the Cavs when LeBron doesn't play? Their record is putrid.

But I can guess we can ignore that

MarkieMark48
02-02-2017, 11:54 AM
you ever....take a gander at the Cavs when LeBron doesn't play? Their record is putrid.

But I can guess we can ignore that

I guess there is a reason why hes 2nd in minutes played per game too (by 6 seconds)

koreancabbage
02-02-2017, 12:55 PM
Today Atlanta best player is Milshap. Love is out rebounding and out scoring milshap but milshap can carry Atlanta to the playoffs but love can't? How does that make any sense?

Cavs remove James and they will make the east finals. They would sweep Atlanta along the way. It's not hard to see. You replace James with prime Barkley and Cavs win a title. So James is just doing what any 50 greatest player ever can do. Win a ring with all the best players on one team.

LOL wut? i think the best players are on GSW.

Green > Love
Steph > Kyrie
some say Durant > Lebron, if not equals
and Klay > anyone on the Cavs team outside of the big 3

If you're talking about last year, Lebron > Klay but everything else stands true.

and last year, it was the best team of all time that lost to Lebron and company. you just need to open your eyes.

Chronz
02-02-2017, 01:00 PM
Yeah and his competition sucks. Switch the Spurs to the east and they run a train. You act like this in college BB, no this is the NBA upsets are few in far between in the playoffs. Context is part of an argument it's not really my problem if you choose to ignore it

Lebron fans like to continually run with the narrative that the talent around him actually isn't as good as it is. It started in Miami when we were all supposed to think the Wade and Bosh weren't actually any good anymore, or now in Cleveland where Kyrie and Love are actually that good either.

He didn't have much his first time in Cleveland I'll give him that, but he has had by far the best supporting cast around from his Miami days until this year where now he has the 2nd best talent around him (see Warriors).

Again is is crying because he is getting beat by the game he created, and it looks like he is crying because he only has so much more time to get 6 more rings

Lol i love how you still tried to cling to context whilst ignoring the contextual facts i gave you.

I know this is the nba that's why your argument is bunk. You're not suppose to think those players aren't good, you're suppose to have some inkling of objective truth about their level of play, which vague objections fail to accomplish. Again if context matters, why are you asking me to ignore how his teams have ACTUALLY faired with and without said player. Why would i believe your laughable/arbitrary projections?

Stop preaching to me about what LeBron fans have done to you and actually engage in MY debate.

Chronz
02-02-2017, 01:01 PM
Today Atlanta best player is Milshap. Love is out rebounding and out scoring milshap but milshap can carry Atlanta to the playoffs but love can't? How does that make any sense?

Cavs remove James and they will make the east finals. They would sweep Atlanta along the way. It's not hard to see. You replace James with prime Barkley and Cavs win a title. So James is just doing what any 50 greatest player ever can do. Win a ring with all the best players on one team.

Lol the thing called defense. I also love how you ignore the rest of the team and the points i was making. I don't recall anyone saying they would for sure miss the playoffs btw. Try quoting cuz it's hard to pinpoint just who exactly you're talking to here.

And no, nobody save for the true elite would've won with such a formidable foe in front of them.

Miltstar
02-02-2017, 03:20 PM
Barkley is absolutely owning Lebron and I'm loving every single minute of it! Go Chuck Go!!

Chronz
02-02-2017, 03:55 PM
The only person who owned **** in all this has been the Diesel

Vee-Rex
02-02-2017, 04:40 PM
you ever....take a gander at the Cavs when LeBron doesn't play? Their record is putrid.

But I can guess we can ignore that

Yeah, if LeBron retired tonight we'd lose like the rest of our games. We suck that badly without him.

I do think if we replaced 'Bron, dropped some of the dead-weight off our bench that is built around 'Bron's game and replace them with players that can create their own shot, and had a full offseason with the new squad, we might be able to become a low seed (42-46 wins).

IKnowHoops
02-02-2017, 04:42 PM
Lebron is full on losing it. This is great entertainment.

Not Draymond level loosing it though right? Haha

Chronz
02-02-2017, 05:13 PM
Yeah, if LeBron retired tonight we'd lose like the rest of our games. We suck that badly without him.

I do think if we replaced 'Bron, dropped some of the dead-weight off our bench that is built around 'Bron's game and replace them with players that can create their own shot, and had a full offseason with the new squad, we might be able to become a low seed (42-46 wins).
. By create their own do you speak of a Carmelo or a Waiters? Cuz that's pretty vague. Role Players who can create Their own are usually the kind of guys who take the ball away from your best Players. It's why waiters has failed at every team that expected to win.

There's an argument to be made that your team could get worse with those players.

Saddletramp
02-02-2017, 06:05 PM
You mad?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nah, I'll live.

Saddletramp
02-02-2017, 06:09 PM
Not Draymond level loosing it though right? Haha

Draymond's always been a mental midget. Lebron finally got fed up with the hate. But hey, homers gonna homer.

tredigs
02-02-2017, 06:16 PM
Not Draymond level loosing it though right? Haha

Correct again Hoops. You are witnessing a mental breakdown from Bron, and everybody's to blame but him (at least that's what his leadership has attempted to lead us to believe). It's especially epic since Curry is back to playing at an MVP level, Draymond is the DPOY, and the whole cast of All Stars are winning at historic levels every night while quietly floating under the radar (so much as they can) while everybody is focused on 'Bron and his/the Cavs breakdown. It's the best of all worlds.

ewing
02-02-2017, 06:44 PM
Nah, I'll live.

A little mad huh? It's ok Bron doesn't read this board


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Chromehounds
02-02-2017, 06:51 PM
Mental breakdown, yes, and it's more like Mentally Unstable. ;) He's a spoiled brat, who cries when he doesn't get what he wants. It goes to show how immature and insecure the guy is, waited a few days to memorize his personal attacks, blurbed them out in sequence of events then asked a reporter to print that! What an idiot! lol
For all you guys that said Chuck puss out in his response. Sir Charles is taking the high road, he didn't stoop down to LBJ level responding with personal attacks.
Wait! someone should ask LBJ a question... Will he be baking cookies with Chuck's name on them? His next Halloween party of course.

Saddletramp
02-02-2017, 07:06 PM
Mental breakdown, yes, and it's more like Mentally Unstable. ;) He's a spoiled brat, who cries when he doesn't get what he wants. It goes to show how immature and insure the guy is, waited a few days to memorize his personal attacks, blurbed them out in sequence of events then asked a reporter to print that! What an idiot! lol
For all you guys that said Chuck puss out in his response. Sir Charles is taking the high road, he didn't stoop down to LBJ level responding with personal attacks.
Wait! someone should ask LBJ a question... Will he be baking cookies with Chuck's name on them? His next Halloween party of course.

This whole post, line by line, is sooooo lol. Mentally unstable? Spoiled brat? Immature and unsure? Charles taking the high road?

And I see you're still bitter about his trolling of GS after GS trolled him. Warriors fans were laughing their butts off when Green talked **** about the injured Cavs team (that they just beat 4-2) with "They suck" and Klay talked **** during the Finals when they were up a few games and when Curry said "the locker room still smells like champagne" but cry like little *****es over the Halloween cookies and a poster. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. Oh wait, that would involve class. You wouldn't understand.

Saddletramp
02-02-2017, 07:11 PM
A little mad huh? It's ok Bron doesn't read this board


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you're confusing anger with "Wow, that guy said some blatantly asinine garbage. What an idiot."

I assumed you knew the difference but, well, I guess I was right about the asinine garbage and idiot part.

tredigs
02-02-2017, 07:12 PM
Barkley's latest response:

Barkley ended the conversation with an in-my-day musing: "It's a different generation," he said. "If we don't say everything positive about them all the time, we're a hater. But I've gotten more support than I saw coming. To be honest with you, it's been great. Especially the guys in the media who are like, 'Thank you. I can't say it because I need to talk to him.' "

Not surprising in the least.

Chronz
02-02-2017, 07:26 PM
Barkley's latest response:

Barkley ended the conversation with an in-my-day musing: "It's a different generation," he said. "If we don't say everything positive about them all the time, we're a hater. But I've gotten more support than I saw coming. To be honest with you, it's been great. Especially the guys in the media who are like, 'Thank you. I can't say it because I need to talk to him.' "

Not surprising in the least.
Well yeah. It was the same thing with Jordan. You gotta mind the hand that feeds you.

Chromehounds
02-02-2017, 07:50 PM
This whole post, line by line, is sooooo lol. Mentally unstable? Spoiled brat? Immature and unsure? Charles taking the high road?

And I see you're still bitter about his trolling of GS after GS trolled him. Warriors fans were laughing their butts off when Green talked **** about the injured Cavs team (that they just beat 4-2) with "They suck" and Klay talked **** during the Finals when they were up a few games and when Curry said "the locker room still smells like champagne" but cry like little *****es over the Halloween cookies and a poster. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. Oh wait, that would involve class. You wouldn't understand.

Well, thank you that was supposed to be funny and opinionated.
And please let's not compare the Drunk and spontaneous Green parade yapping with a planned cookies bake-off. A bit of a difference there don't you think? It's obvious now you only see/hear what you want to see/hear. Can't help you there, Bobbie. ;)

Oh, and you know what! This meltdown could be all about the Spurs, Kawhi is giving LBJ nightmares I tell ya.

Jamiecballer
02-02-2017, 07:52 PM
Barkley is absolutely owning Lebron and I'm loving every single minute of it! Go Chuck Go!!
Are you that dense? I get that you hate lebron, but you are coming in here completely oblivious to your minority opinion.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Chromehounds
02-02-2017, 07:54 PM
Barkley's latest response:

Barkley ended the conversation with an in-my-day musing: "It's a different generation," he said. "If we don't say everything positive about them all the time, we're a hater. But I've gotten more support than I saw coming. To be honest with you, it's been great. Especially the guys in the media who are like, 'Thank you. I can't say it because I need to talk to him.' "

Not surprising in the least.

Besides Chuck, which Billy/Bob or Mary/Jane would state such an opinion piece? Career ending for most!

Saddletramp
02-02-2017, 08:03 PM
I like how Chuck is being compared to random beat writers. If Chuck didn't get fired for DWI and picking up hookers, he's not getting in any trouble for saying what he said. Those reporters could, though.

tredigs
02-02-2017, 08:18 PM
I like how Chuck is being compared to random beat writers. If Chuck didn't get fired for DWI and picking up hookers, he's not getting in any trouble for saying what he said. Those reporters could, though.
You're entirely missing the point. Lebron can shut out the beat writers and their questions/potential interviews if they "slander" him. Barkley doesn't have to care what LBJ thinks of him. He has a massive platform.

Chromehounds
02-02-2017, 08:28 PM
I like how Chuck is being compared to random beat writers. If Chuck didn't get fired for DWI and picking up hookers, he's not getting in any trouble for saying what he said. Those reporters could, though.

I hope you do understand Chuck gave his opinion, and pertaining to your "get in trouble". No false statements were made toward an individual, why would anyone be in trouble? My career ending comment was about the Brand, LBJ is a Brand, too big of a Brand that no national media would dare to criticize such brand!
I'm curious, which part of Chuck's comment you disagree with? Let me briefly paraphrase. Stop publicly berating your teammates and owner with your whining, you're the best player in the world you have enough help. Nut it up and play! I think that's pretty much what Chuck said.

cmellofan15
02-02-2017, 08:51 PM
If you don't know what he said then you are just blindly defending him. Do you have a crush on CB or you just don't like Bron enough to side against him at every given opportunity?

Saddletramp
02-02-2017, 09:16 PM
I hope you do understand Chuck gave his opinion, and pertaining to your "get in trouble". No false statements were made toward an individual, why would anyone be in trouble?

I'm pretty sure Lebron wouldn't do **** to the writers if they called him out for anything but I'm pretty sure the reporters bosses don't want some beat writer making a name for himself by going after Lebron. Chuck though? TNT enjoys the press and ratings and it's not like this kind of stuff is new to Chuck. Chuck has always been abrasive so he's opened the door to be countered.


My career ending comment was about the Brand, LBJ is a Brand, too big of a Brand that no national media would dare to criticize such brand!

Sure, like the Trump brand? Going against him is sure ending a lot of careers, isn't it? You're making it sound like Lebron is the mafia or something. And they're not "going after him" because he wants to add a playmaker.



I'm curious, which part of Chuck's comment you disagree with? Let me briefly paraphrase. Stop publicly berating your teammates and owner with your whining, you're the best player in the world you have enough help. Nut it up and play! I think that's pretty much what Chuck said.

Lebron is frustrated and spoke his mind. I don't totally agree with him dishing that out to reporters but that's the world we live in where there seems to always be a microphone in your face. I don't think the Cavs have enough to win it all and Lebron agrees. Like I said before, they didn't add anyone remotely close to the guy GS added. It's going to take (multiple?) injuries or another massive choke job for anyone to beat the Warriors this year.

Boils down to
Chuck: Lebron, shut the **** up.
Lebron: Chuck, you shut the **** up.

Chuck is basically saying "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" after leaving multiple teams when the going got tough. If this were anyone else, it wouldn't attract this much drama, but for all of the Lebron haters that mock Lebron's drama, they certainly bring a lot of their own to the party. Should Lebron air Chuck's dirty laundry? Nah, but Jesus, that guy gets more scrutiny then anyone alive it seems for warranted and unwarranted things and he eventually scrutinized back. And against a guy who shouldn't throw stones, either.

Again, anyone else and this would be a fun feud. It's Lebron, so the same old haters are same old hatin'. Anything to justify the jealousy, I guess.

Bostonjorge
02-02-2017, 09:20 PM
Yeah, if LeBron retired tonight we'd lose like the rest of our games. We suck that badly without him.

I do think if we replaced 'Bron, dropped some of the dead-weight off our bench that is built around 'Bron's game and replace them with players that can create their own shot, and had a full offseason with the new squad, we might be able to become a low seed (42-46 wins).

Don't know how the only team with a all star in the east will be a borderline playoff team. Let alone a Cleveland team with 2 all starts. Makes zero sense to me. Boston don't have lebron and they are second seed out east. So how is a Lebron less Cavs team going to be a 42 win team? Unless you think 42 wins gets you the second seed out east because that's where they will be. You need to be realistic. If hawks and wizards can win 50 games then so can Irving without love and James.

You need to be realistic. What you think Barkley mean by " lebron wants all the good players",

Saddletramp
02-02-2017, 09:35 PM
You're entirely missing the point. Lebron can shut out the beat writers and their questions/potential interviews if they "slander" him. Barkley doesn't have to care what LBJ thinks of him. He has a massive platform.

That's basically what I'm saying. Barkley can basically say or do (legally)whatever he wants. Hawks Beat writer Johnny Jackson can't. Lebron has taken so much **** over the years from the press and dopes like us on social media that he's used to it. But when hypocritical Barkley starts spewing it a little more vehemently at the wrong time, he fired back. Again, if that's others, it's an entertaining feud. It's Lebron so he's having a "mental breakdown" and is "unstable".

Chromehounds
02-02-2017, 09:38 PM
Chuck is basically saying "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" after leaving multiple teams when the going got tough. If this were anyone else, it wouldn't attract this much drama, but for all of the Lebron haters that mock Lebron's drama, they certainly bring a lot of their own to the party. Should Lebron air Chuck's dirty laundry? Nah, but Jesus, that guy gets more scrutiny then anyone alive it seems for warranted and unwarranted things and he eventually scrutinized back. And against a guy who shouldn't throw stones, either.

Again, anyone else and this would be a fun feud. It's Lebron, so the same old haters are same old hatin'. Anything to justify the jealousy, I guess.

Are you kidding me? If a no name mediocre NBA player publicly throwing his teammates, GM and owner under the bus every time he hits a losing streak, that NBA player would be chastised out of the league. Because it's LBJ so we all should just laugh it off, it's only LBJ being LBJ. lol Bias much?
There's no point debating this subject any further, you're just a bias fan blindly defending your team best player. ;)

Chromehounds
02-02-2017, 09:42 PM
If you don't know what he said then you are just blindly defending him. Do you have a crush on CB or you just don't like Bron enough to side against him at every given opportunity?

Ah, I see a Cleveland pattern here. Deflecting criticisms with personal attacks.

FYI.. I had a man crush once, well, a couple I think. Cool Joe and MJ, love their game. ;)

tredigs
02-02-2017, 09:44 PM
That's basically what I'm saying. Barkley can basically say or do (legally)whatever he wants. Hawks Beat writer Johnny Jackson can't. Lebron has taken so much **** over the years from the press and dopes like us on social media that he's used to it. But when hypocritical Barkley starts spewing it a little more vehemently at the wrong time, he fired back. Again, if that's others, it's an entertaining feud. It's Lebron so he's having a "mental breakdown" and is "unstable".

No, not in any way. Barkley made a perfectly fair take that echoed what everybody who didn't stand to lose anything said about 'Bron after he started this tirade about his GM/Teammates weeks ago. Any top player in the game who has multiple All Stars on his roster under the GM/Owner who outspends every team in the league (who pushed them for/away essentially every player on their roster) would rightfully be panned all the same. Everybody always tries to turn it into, "if this was ANYBODY BUT BRON" BS. It's just not true. He's being called out, and he's freaking out about it. Throwing accusations about commentators that have nothing to do with him or their situation. And most having nothing to do with basketball what so ever.

Once again, Barkley even stated IN HIS COMMENTS, that 'Bron was a great guy. He clearly went out of his way not to assassinate his character. 'Bron, unfortunately, is a child. And he is getting called out on it. Deal with it.

Saddletramp
02-02-2017, 10:00 PM
Are you kidding me? If a no name mediocre NBA player publicly throwing his teammates, GM and owner under the bus every time he hits a losing streak, that NBA player would be chastised out of the league. Because it's LBJ so we all should just laugh it off, it's only LBJ being LBJ. lol Bias much?
There's no point debating this subject any further, you're just a bias fan blindly defending your team best player. ;)

I'm not a Cle fan and the only reason I've ever stuck up for Lebron is because he gets so much unwarranted hate that it's ridiculous.

As far as the rest (and to Tre, too) I'm not talking about what Lebron initially said, I'm talking about these two guys going at each other. If Barkley were to go after any guy in the league for whatever reason, and that guy snapped back at him, people would choose sides but it'd be fun to watch. But when it's Lebron involved, his haters are automatically against him. I don't blindly love the guy but a lot of you guys blindly hate him.

Miltstar
02-02-2017, 10:22 PM
Are you that dense? I get that you hate lebron, but you are coming in here completely oblivious to your minority opinion.

Why does it matter if I have an unpopular opinion??? I'm entitled to think and say whatever I want just like everyone else. I don't hate on all you guys that think he's the GOAT it just makes me laugh quietly to myself. Chuck is coming off as a class act while Lebron is looking like he always does. The fact that he has to "defend" his legacy is hilarious to me, he clearly isn't as good as he thinks he is.

I get most of the posters in here are just sheep that follow the popular crowd, but I'm a dire wolf my friend. It's becoming quite the trend, whenever someone disagrees with me they attempt to attack me personally because they have nothing logical to say... maybe that might remind you of someone :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: this is why I don't want the youth looking up to that clown.

Like I mean if he didn't demand Wiggins be traded for Love maybe the team wouldn't be soo top heavy!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: like seriously what does he expect from them?

papipapsmanny
02-03-2017, 01:06 AM
Lol i love how you still tried to cling to context whilst ignoring the contextual facts i gave you.

I know this is the nba that's why your argument is bunk. You're not suppose to think those players aren't good, you're suppose to have some inkling of objective truth about their level of play, which vague objections fail to accomplish. Again if context matters, why are you asking me to ignore how his teams have ACTUALLY faired with and without said player. Why would i believe your laughable/arbitrary projections?

Stop preaching to me about what LeBron fans have done to you and actually engage in MY debate.

What is your actual debate? His teams record without him? A) No **** it will likely be worse, B) Sample size, C) who was also out in said games?

valade16
02-03-2017, 01:21 AM
I think the part that went above and beyond simply talking basketball was when Barkley said LeBron didn't want to compete. We know that statement can definitely be viewed as crossing a line by the reaction Shaq had to it. It's not like LeBron is the only person who felt Chuck crossed a line, Shaq actually got very heated about it.

Sssmush
02-03-2017, 08:39 AM
Lebron probably feels a tension and a pressure about maintaining his ego and his legend BECAUSE he is overrated to some extent and the legend is manufactured.

Excuse me but you never saw MJ melting down at the prospect of getting pwned in the playoffs. Kobe got uptight when he had no shot to get near tge finals, but Kobe with a squad defending a title would never be raking managements coals and saying he needs another elite "playmaker" which by the way disses shumpert, kyrie, everybody.

This is ur championship team. Unless it was a faked rigged championship last year then u should just ball out and believe in ur squad

MarkieMark48
02-03-2017, 09:18 AM
What is your actual debate? His teams record without him? A) No **** it will likely be worse, B) Sample size, C) who was also out in said games?

4-18 without Lebron since he came back to Cleveland. Given that is just slightly over 10% of the games played, and if Lebron wasn't on the team of course there would be different schemes to practice ect.... but still only winning 4 out of 22 games, yesh

Miltstar
02-03-2017, 09:27 AM
4-18 without Lebron since he came back to Cleveland. Given that is just slightly over 10% of the games played, and if Lebron wasn't on the team of course there would be different schemes to practice ect.... but still only winning 4 out of 22 games, yesh

I think that speaks to Lebron's talent as a GM

MarkieMark48
02-03-2017, 09:43 AM
I think that speaks to Lebron's talent as a GM

Maybe him and MJ are more alike than people think
:laugh:

ewing
02-03-2017, 09:50 AM
Lebron probably feels a tension and a pressure about maintaining his ego and his legend BECAUSE he is overrated to some extent and the legend is manufactured.

Excuse me but you never saw MJ melting down at the prospect of getting pwned in the playoffs. Kobe got uptight when he had no shot to get near tge finals, but Kobe with a squad defending a title would never be raking managements coals and saying he needs another elite "playmaker" which by the way disses shumpert, kyrie, everybody.

This is ur championship team. Unless it was a faked rigged championship last year then u should just ball out and believe in ur squad

Boom

phantasyyy
02-03-2017, 03:07 PM
I think the part that went above and beyond simply talking basketball was when Barkley said LeBron didn't want to compete. We know that statement can definitely be viewed as crossing a line by the reaction Shaq had to it. It's not like LeBron is the only person who felt Chuck crossed a line, Shaq actually got very heated about it.

It was a very child-like response from both LeBron and Shaq. Especially Shaq who once he has an opinion on things, cannot see the other side whatsoever becoming baby-like in his responses, resulting in petty arguments to get his point across. One ludicrous statement he had was that stars don't win championships, the "others" do, which is fine but LeBron still has two other all stars on the squad.

The whole "does he not want to compete" is taken very much out of context. Barkley sort of said it in a joking manner in which he stated "does he want ALL the good players." Personally, last night's show I thought Kenny had a great take on it when he compared Barkley's comments to KD's decision to join the Warriors, in which he said that him and the rest of the guys were also thinking the same thing "does he not want to compete?" It is the first thing that comes to peoples minds when you see a star with a team like he has clamoring for MORE talent and Chuck just has the abrasive personality to put it out there. In no way, shape or form can you say that LeBron lacks the will to compete and I thinks its a scenario where Bron just cherry-picked this portion of the comment to make his argument.

Then again very few players have been in the situation of LeBron and Shaq where they are coming of a championship and are looking to repeat, so he does share a similar point of view with Bron - in where the championship hanger always requires improvements if your looking to win again.

Phantom Dreamer
02-03-2017, 03:16 PM
dude, you are so biased it's unreal. Barkley knew loyalty? Haha

if free agency were actually allowed in the 80's, your whole world would be different when it came to NBA devotion.

Screw that, LeBron is a fascistWell, his judgement can definitely be scrutinized seeing that he endorsed the racist, corrupt, neoliberal, rapist enabler, war monger Hillary Clinton for president.

ewing
02-03-2017, 03:37 PM
^^^ this guy is sooo weird?!

Hawkeye15
02-03-2017, 04:20 PM
Well, his judgement can definitely be scrutinized seeing that he endorsed the racist, corrupt, neoliberal, rapist enabler, war monger Hillary Clinton for president.

a black athlete that is a democrat? How rare..

valade16
02-03-2017, 04:32 PM
It was a very child-like response from both LeBron and Shaq. Especially Shaq who once he has an opinion on things, cannot see the other side whatsoever becoming baby-like in his responses, resulting in petty arguments to get his point across. One ludicrous statement he had was that stars don't win championships, the "others" do, which is fine but LeBron still has two other all stars on the squad.

The whole "does he not want to compete" is taken very much out of context. Barkley sort of said it in a joking manner in which he stated "does he want ALL the good players." Personally, last night's show I thought Kenny had a great take on it when he compared Barkley's comments to KD's decision to join the Warriors, in which he said that him and the rest of the guys were also thinking the same thing "does he not want to compete?" It is the first thing that comes to peoples minds when you see a star with a team like he has clamoring for MORE talent and Chuck just has the abrasive personality to put it out there. In no way, shape or form can you say that LeBron lacks the will to compete and I thinks its a scenario where Bron just cherry-picked this portion of the comment to make his argument.

Then again very few players have been in the situation of LeBron and Shaq where they are coming of a championship and are looking to repeat, so he does share a similar point of view with Bron - in where the championship hanger always requires improvements if your looking to win again.

Dwayne Wade agreed with a Bron and Shaq too. I don't think you can use the "they're all babies" excuse. Clearly several other superstar level players felt Chuck's comment was inappropriate.

ewing
02-03-2017, 04:35 PM
Dwayne Wade agreed with a Bron and Shaq too. I don't think you can use the "they're all babies" excuse. Clearly several other superstar level players felt Chuck's comment was inappropriate.

Shaq ran away from his challenge in Orlando and Wade is Bron's super team but buddy.

Hawkeye15
02-03-2017, 04:39 PM
Shaq ran away from his challenge in Orlando and Wade is Bron's super team but buddy.

so basically a player needs to stick out a situation, no matter how bad, or be traded with zero involvement, to make your "he is good" list?

you misspelled "butt" (cue the dick response for grammar fix haha)

valade16
02-03-2017, 04:53 PM
Shaq ran away from his challenge in Orlando and Wade is Bron's super team but buddy.

A fact I'm sure neither regrets too strongly considering they got rings because of those decisions.

Whether bolting to greener pastures is competitive or douchey or not, rings place you higher on the all-time list.

Nobody aspires to be the next Malone and Stockton

suic
02-03-2017, 05:00 PM
Maybe Lebron just realized no-way will he beat gs anymore without luck and injuries. No rings and future of losing in the finals.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

IKnowHoops
02-03-2017, 05:01 PM
Shaq ran away from his challenge in Orlando and Wade is Bron's super team but buddy.

Jordan and Charles were best buds and now Jordan won't even talk to Charles because he runs his mouth to much. Jordan must also be a baby.

cmellofan15
02-03-2017, 05:06 PM
Ah, I see a Cleveland pattern here. Deflecting criticisms with personal attacks.

FYI.. I had a man crush once, well, a couple I think. Cool Joe and MJ, love their game. ;)

1. Deflecting criticisms? You don't even know what Barkley said so what exactly am I deflecting, some stuff you made up?

2. Personal attacks...where? I questioned your motives for defending something in which you can't even quote LMAO

tredigs
02-03-2017, 05:33 PM
I think the part that went above and beyond simply talking basketball was when Barkley said LeBron didn't want to compete. We know that statement can definitely be viewed as crossing a line by the reaction Shaq had to it. It's not like LeBron is the only person who felt Chuck crossed a line, Shaq actually got very heated about it.

You sound like Shaq here. Chuck didn't just come out and say LBJ did not want to compete, he only asked the question (that millions of others had already posed - amid a chorus of superlatives talking about how great 'Bron is - going out of his way to defend 'Bron's character - and making note that the Cavs are in fact the defending champs). There is a fundamental difference there.

Shaq did get heated when misquoting Chuck, yes. He took it emotionally, as did 'Bron. Chuck, Kenny, and the vast majority of objective fans saw it from another light.

By the way, concerning this with/without Bron W/L talk, bear in mind that A) This roster is tailor fit to suit him specifically and talent wise they could very easily build a stronger squad to suit Kyrie/Love better if need be and B) When 'Bron sits, it is often in the toils of the mid-season grind (ala his Miami vacation where he left them hanging) or during the 2nd leg of road b2b's (IE the toughest games to win in the NBA). They are not in any way/shape/form indicative of the talent level of that group.

Let's take a look at their 0-3 record without 'Bron this year. Game 1 was the 2nd leg of a b2b in Indiana after winning a tight one against Toronto. Game 2 was the 2nd leg of a b2b @Memphis after playing Memphis. Game 3 was a b2b @Detroit after the Warriors Christmas game. Often times when 'Bron does this (don't blame him btw, these are schedule losses and he's right to save his energy for the playoffs), Love and/or Irving are also out (the case in the Memphis b2b with all 3 out). He's clearly massively important to the team, but use some context when trying to undermine his All Star support and the role-players of his own choosing.

ewing
02-03-2017, 05:49 PM
Jordan and Charles were best buds and now Jordan won't even talk to Charles because he runs his mouth to much. Jordan must also be a baby.

Thats different Jordan can do whatever he wants

valade16
02-03-2017, 06:00 PM
You sound like Shaq here. Chuck didn't just come out and say LBJ did not want to compete, he only asked the question (that millions of others had already posed - amid a chorus of superlatives talking about how great 'Bron is - going out of his way to defend 'Bron's character - and making note that the Cavs are in fact the defending champs). There is a fundamental difference there.

Shaq did get heated when misquoting Chuck, yes. He took it emotionally, as did 'Bron. Chuck, Kenny, and the vast majority of objective fans saw it from another light.

I watched the clip and I could easily see how someone could take offense to what Chuck said, and I'm a huge fan of his on Inside the NBA.

I mean, just because you say something in the form of a question doesn't mean it can't be an insult. Obviously a simplistic example, but if I ask someone "Are you a piece of ****?" It's hard to not take that as an insult.

He said "Does he have to have all the good players? He don't want to compete?" It wasn't tongue in cheek or meant as a joke. I can easily see how someone could think he was questioning LeBron's will to compete.

He did go out of his way to defend LeBron's character and called him a great guy, but he also didn't say that LeBron was competitive or wanted to compete. He basically said the exact opposite in his comments no?

ewing
02-03-2017, 06:04 PM
I watched the clip and I could easily see how someone could take offense to what Chuck said, and I'm a huge fan of his on Inside the NBA.

I mean, just because you say something in the form of a question doesn't mean it can't be an insult. Obviously a simplistic example, but if I ask someone "Are you a piece of ****?" It's hard to not take that as an insult.

He said "Does he have to have all the good players? He don't want to compete?" It wasn't tongue in cheek or meant as a joke. I can easily see how someone could think he was questioning LeBron's will to compete.

He did go out of his way to defend LeBron's character and called him a great guy, but he also didn't say that LeBron was competitive or wanted to compete. He basically said the exact opposite in his comments no?


He is right. LeBron is a *****. Peoples only defense for him is- well other players have been have been *****es and well he's a business man. :confused:

Vee-Rex
02-03-2017, 06:11 PM
. By create their own do you speak of a Carmelo or a Waiters? Cuz that's pretty vague. Role Players who can create Their own are usually the kind of guys who take the ball away from your best Players. It's why waiters has failed at every team that expected to win.

There's an argument to be made that your team could get worse with those players.

True.

I'd say a player like Shaun Livingston would be awesome (I absolutely loved him when he played for us and jealous GS has him). Iggy, at least in the previous 2 years could do more offensively than stand in the corner. A Ginobili-lite would be cool. Those guys can't take over a game or anything (well Livingston is usually GOAT/MJ-level vs. us) but they're not incompetent when the ball touches their hands while they aren't wide open.

Honestly, if you look up and down the rosters of the Spurs and Warriors you got guys that can pretty much drive and kick, or even finish in the paint here and there. Other than the occasional highlight dunk, RJ is a corpse that stands at the 3-point line. So is Frye, so is James Jones (though he doesn't get big minutes). So was Mike Miller.

Stumpert can do a little bit here and there but he's prone to turnovers and doesn't have enough gravity to cause defenses to collapse on his drives. So his drives only result in him miraculously getting around his defender or throwing up some sort of contested, reckless shot.

JR Smith can create a contested fadeaway shot and knock it down or miss but usually nothing towards the rim. Kay Felder is as raw as a thanksgiving turkey on Independence day, and Liggins can't do anything offensively but camp the 3-point line.

Truthfully, besides Kyrie and LeBron, we have no players on the perimeter that are reliable in creating shots for themselves OR others and besides Kevin Love, no big men that can create their own shot.

Vee-Rex
02-03-2017, 06:36 PM
Don't know how the only team with a all star in the east will be a borderline playoff team. Let alone a Cleveland team with 2 all starts. Makes zero sense to me. Boston don't have lebron and they are second seed out east. So how is a Lebron less Cavs team going to be a 42 win team? Unless you think 42 wins gets you the second seed out east because that's where they will be. You need to be realistic. If hawks and wizards can win 50 games then so can Irving without love and James.

You need to be realistic. What you think Barkley mean by " lebron wants all the good players",

Not sure what you mean by 'only team with an all star'...

Anyway, the depth of this Cavs team is built solely around LeBron's strengths. The Cavs are 4-18 without LeBron (or at least that's the number I'm always seeing - I haven't checked myself). It's both because LeBron is an amazing player and because the team is built around him.

tredigs
02-03-2017, 06:45 PM
I watched the clip and I could easily see how someone could take offense to what Chuck said, and I'm a huge fan of his on Inside the NBA.

I mean, just because you say something in the form of a question doesn't mean it can't be an insult. Obviously a simplistic example, but if I ask someone "Are you a piece of ****?" It's hard to not take that as an insult.

He said "Does he have to have all the good players? He don't want to compete?" It wasn't tongue in cheek or meant as a joke. I can easily see how someone could think he was questioning LeBron's will to compete.

He did go out of his way to defend LeBron's character and called him a great guy, but he also didn't say that LeBron was competitive or wanted to compete. He basically said the exact opposite in his comments no?

I'm already tired writing about this, yes, he questioned him. As did we, as we should. As was KD when he joined GS. The difference is that you can't be on a super-team and then whine about it. Not as if KD whined about being on OKC or his teammates or demanded more help. He left for the easier road, sure, but that was similar to me to LBJ leaving for Miami (we don't need to rehash the specific differences.. please). I did not love LBJ going to Miami, but I defended it as his choice and a fair one after carrying his teams for half a decade (regardless of them being a 60+ win contender). Had he complained about this help in the '09 and earlier Cavs? Cool, you have a great point. Unfortunately at this juncture, he has no ****ing ledge to stand on. Another team stacked the deck better than you? Cool, you got beat at your own game. Now try to topple them with your All Star cast and self chosen role players.

tredigs
02-03-2017, 06:48 PM
Not sure what you mean by 'only team with an all star'...

Anyway, the depth of this Cavs team is built solely around LeBron's strengths. The Cavs are 4-18 without LeBron (or at least that's the number I'm always seeing - I haven't checked myself). It's both because LeBron is an amazing player and because the team is built around him.

And that he sits the 2nd half of road b2b's ; )

ewing
02-03-2017, 07:41 PM
has there ever been a more desperate legacy chaser in sports?

Jamiecballer
02-04-2017, 12:55 AM
^ maybe not, but there hasn't been anyone who couldn't just go about their business and play and let the results speak for themselves either. He produced unfathomable results his first ten years in the league and still the major narrative for some revolved around his inability (although I will say desire) to wear a superman cape Ala Jordan or Kobe in the final mins of games. So I can see where he feels like he has to play catch up.

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ewing
02-04-2017, 01:10 AM
^ maybe not, but there hasn't been anyone who couldn't just go about their business and play and let the results speak for themselves either. He produced unfathomable results his first ten years in the league and still the major narrative for some revolved around his inability (although I will say desire) to wear a superman cape Ala Jordan or Kobe in the final mins of games. So I can see where he feels like he has to play catch up.

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I think a lot of guys let results speak for themselves. Lebron is so desperate to be Jordan. 7 titles? Bounces after 4 finals in a row when it's seems that's team window might start to close. Idk


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Shlumpledink
02-04-2017, 01:26 AM
Wow, Lebron is a child. Going personally after pundits? Why not attack Bayless all these years? He had way less credibility and has said worse.

Lebron should apologize for this. He stepped out of line. Talk about how he doesn't know what he's talking about and most everyone can understand that argument. Or argue against the charges themselves.

Barkley goes after Lebron hard sometimes, but he also talks about how great he is and has for many years.