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View Full Version : The Bulls current predicament.



Heatnation80
01-26-2017, 08:35 PM
Wade
I don't know, but we continue to be in these kinds of situations and lose games like this. Everyone don't care enough. You got to care enough, man. It's got to mean that much to you to want to win. And it doesn't. So I don't know what happened....But at the end of the day, you just got to want more for yourself. It's a team game, but it's what you bring individually to the team. You play a good game, you play a bad game, it's how you go down and look at the film. It's how you look at the other opponents and see what you're doing, what you can take away from it. This game is more than just shot makes and misses. I don't know. Guys have to answer that question themselves. I'm not at home with people, but I don't know if I see enough guys who really, really want it. As long as it's like this, it has to hurt them. I'm 35 years old, man. I've got three championships. It shouldn't hurt me more than it hurts these young guys. They have to want it. If they don't want it, then we'll show up and play Friday. Hopefully we win; if we don't, we [do it] again. Keep it going until the season's over. It has to change. It has to hurt inside to lose games like this. This s--- should f---ing hurt."

When Wade was asked about pressure on him and Butler
Nah. It's fine, I can look at Jimmy and say Jimmy's doing his job. Jimmy can look at me and say Dwyane's doing his job. I don't know if we can keep going down the line and be able to say that.

Butler
M-----f-----s just got to care if we win or lose, but at the end of the day, do whatever it takes to help the team win. You play your role to the tee. Be a star in your role, man. That's how you win in this league, man. You have to embrace what this team, what this organization needs for you to do on either end of the floor. On top of everything else, just play every possession like it's your last. We don't play hard all the time. It's very disappointing whenever we don't play hard. If you're not pissed off that you lost, man, something is wrong. This is your job. This is what you're supposed to love to do, and I don't think that everybody looks at it that way. I want to play with guys that care, guys that play hard, that want to do well for this organization, that want to win games, man. Do whatever it takes, just win. Who cares who is shining? When we're winning, everybody looks great, everybody is doing what they're supposed to do. I don't think that's happening right now, I really don't.

Rondo hits back
My vets would never go to the media. They would come to the team. My vets didnít pick and choose when they wanted to bring it. They brought it every time they stepped in the gym whether it was practice or a game. My vets played for the team. When we lost, they wouldnít blame us. They took responsibility and got in the gym. They showed the young guys what it meant to work. Even in Boston when we had the best record in the league, if we lost a game, you could hear a pin drop on the bus. They showed us the seriousness of the game.

It takes 1-15 to win. When you isolate everyone, you canít win consistently. I may be a lot of things, but Iím not a bad teammate. My goal is to pass what I learned along. The young guys work. They show up. They donít deserve blame. If anything is questionable, itís the leadership.

What is happening to the Bulls?

Giannis94
01-26-2017, 08:40 PM
Wade

When Wade was asked about pressure on him and Butler

Butler

Rondo hits back

What is happening to the Bulls?

Roster construction created this?

theducksmuggler
01-26-2017, 09:15 PM
The Bulls front office traded Rose didnt resign Noah and told Jimmy Butler it was his team and then they signed two Alpha Males in Wade+Rondo and expected their to be no problems there are 3 separate guys who think they are the Alpha veteran leader for the team thats just not going to work...I expect them to blow up this experiment around the deadline personally

Cracka2HI!
01-26-2017, 09:44 PM
It looks like Rondo could headed towards a buyout.

tp13baby
01-26-2017, 09:49 PM
Wade might be an alpha but thats a real teammate.

Honestly it was a broken expirement, Hoiberg sucks, Butler won't survive with that roster. Something needs to be done starting with Butler.

mrblisterdundee
01-26-2017, 10:34 PM
They have late-stage Rondo.

warfelg
01-26-2017, 10:46 PM
A look at what they should do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-22tna7KHzI

Giannis94
01-26-2017, 11:17 PM
The Bulls front office traded Rose didnt resign Noah and told Jimmy Butler it was his team and then they signed two Alpha Males in Wade+Rondo and expected their to be no problems there are 3 separate guys who think they are the Alpha veteran leader for the team thats just not going to work...I expect them to blow up this experiment around the deadline personally
Those were the right moves, they just didn't add anyone outside of.Wade, on prefrably short term deals.

Clint Olbrock
01-27-2017, 04:11 AM
they have late-stage rondo.
lol!

More-Than-Most
01-27-2017, 04:38 AM
hate rondo but he is making valid points... seems like the so called leaders are pointing at everyone else except themselves.... love me some butler but he looked like he didnt give a **** on defense the other night... but when all else fails its blame rondo... rondo wasnt the one running to the media and taking shots... seems incredibly selfish from a guy that is suppose to be a champion and another guy who is suppose to be a leader.

Quinnsanity
01-27-2017, 06:40 AM
I think it's pretty clear at this point that GarPax should not be trusted with the prime of a two-way superstar.

SoapySweetness
01-27-2017, 08:07 AM
hate rondo but he is making valid points... seems like the so called leaders are pointing at everyone else except themselves.... love me some butler but he looked like he didnt give a **** on defense the other night... but when all else fails its blame rondo... rondo wasnt the one running to the media and taking shots... seems incredibly selfish from a guy that is suppose to be a champion and another guy who is suppose to be a leader.

Pretty much this. There's been plenty of Wade not giving a crap on defense this year too. If that's rubbing off on Butler, Wade's the one who should be sent packing. But it should all happen in this sequence:
GarPax - incompetence level high. Accountability level low. Bad Mix
Hoiberg - New regime attempts to fix this miss.
Wade - Seems to now be the one leading the toxicity brigade.
Rondo - Unfortunate for him, because he raises some good points. But by taking his retaliation public, he's all but assured himself a buyout.

SteBO
01-27-2017, 08:59 AM
Rondo is the last person on earth who should be talking on the subject of leadership.....which is precisley why I'm down on D-Wade on this one. Rondo is 100% right......you're no leader if you air your greivances to the media w/ out addressing teammates first.

Scoots
01-27-2017, 09:43 AM
There are different kinds of leaders. There are talkers and there are people who show how it's done. When the leaders are the type who show how it's done can't do it at a high level anymore that leadership can turn poison.

Giannis94
01-27-2017, 10:14 AM
There are different kinds of leaders. There are talkers and there are people who show how it's done. When the leaders are the type who show how it's done can't do it at a high level anymore that leadership can turn poison.

I get it. I am personally more of a quiet person/leader and have led small groups but couldn't imagine myself leading a team as a player.

When people ask me, I explain it by saying: I would rsther be the VP instead of President because I am confident that I could take over in time, if needed.

Say Jimmy is the same way.

I think the bigger issue is that the Bulls didn't properly assess player roles. If Wade was supposed to be that guy, the alpa dog, true leader, maybe Jimmy didn't communicate his leadership atyle to Wade and management? Maybe rondo thought he was being brought in to lead with those 2? When actually Rondo is just a veteran player and nothing more.

This whole situation screams to me that no one is on the same page. There was no communication of roles, and they overestimated the talent they had on their roster, failing to replace the lost pieces in any meaningful way

phi2134
01-27-2017, 10:59 AM
Notice how the bulls organization is a giant poop storm the same as the White Sox? Looks like the poop trickles down from up top.

Giannis94
01-27-2017, 11:02 AM
Notice how the bulls organization is a giant poop storm the same as the White Sox? Looks like the poop trickles down from up top.

Except that the White Sox finally came to their senses and blew things up and now have a bright future. Tougher to see that happening with the Bulls

pacofunk64
01-27-2017, 11:54 AM
How the **** does FO people keep giving Rondo chances? I knew the minute we signed this douche that he would be a headache. He's like Percy Harvin, always injured and only cares about himself. Very talented but a cancer to any team. I think Rondo could play well with a veteran team (like Boston) and a HC that has been around. I just don't know why they would want to task their young coach with this either.

phi2134
01-27-2017, 12:07 PM
Except that the White Sox finally came to their senses and blew things up and now have a bright future. Tougher to see that happening with the Bulls

We shall see. The two sports are a lot different in terms of being able to blow up the organization and create a great team. Basketball is lacking depth in great talent, there are tons of mediocre players and few superstars. Baseball seems to be experiencing a surge in great talent.

It's gonna take a lot longer for the bulls to be competitive again with the big dogs.

effen5
01-27-2017, 12:54 PM
Except that the White Sox finally came to their senses and blew things up and now have a bright future. Tougher to see that happening with the Bulls

How many years did it take for the White Sox to blow up the team? It's been 12 years now since the last championship and finally they decided to blow it up.

Whose ready for a long post?

This all started with the feud between Thibs and Garpax.

This **** would NEVER EVER happen under Thibs leadership. He held everyone accountable, including Derrick Rose in his prime. Garpax jealousy and personal feelings got in the way of business and probably thought Thibs was overrated (Actually I know for a fact Gar thought Thibs was overrated just because of the post Thibs firing conference) and let him go.

Lets go back a little bit more. This entire culture of players running the asylum did happen in the last few years under Thibs, but not at the fault of Thibs but because the hatred of the front office had for Thibs. Here is a small tidbit from an article post Thibs firing.


It was in training camp 2014 that the front office told several core players like Rose and Joakim Noah that it was OK to tune Thibodeau out. That was verified by several sources, including current players.

Gar/Pax sold the players on the idea that Thibodeauís perceived heavy workload was leading to injury problems.

Once a roster is empowered like that and given the stamp to ignore coaching itís hard to get them back in line. Hoiberg found that out far too often this season, as sound game plans were forgotten or ignored by this group in far too many key moments.

I just find it ironic, that the reason they fired Thibs was because of heavy work load but your two best players on the team this year says our players aren't practicing hard enough.

So when people look at Thibs final season and say **** like players started to tune out Thibs, that culture, that toxic environment, it started with our front office.

The following year, in the offseason, Gar tried to convince Bulls fans that it was Thibs offense was the reason this team couldn't win and not because of the talent mostly because the team of young players right now are all Gar's picks. Thibs refused to play Niko and Doug because he knew 3 years ago how mediocre or how bad they are.

Now I understand the firing, even though in my opinion it should have been Garpax that should have been let go but now lets fast forward a bit. Instead of doing another exhaustive search for a coach, Gar spends four ****ing days and hires his best friend whom he's known for a long time Hoiberg. A lot of Bulls fans in the Bulls forum loved the idea of Hoiberg. I ****ing hated it. I thought he was going to be a yes man.

Gar in the offseason pretty much said this was a championship caliber team with the roster intact. We missed the playoffs for the first time since 2008. ****ing embarrassing. So instead of blowing this team up, we sign Rajon Rondo. Why? I don't ****ing know, nobody ****ing knows. So maybe blow up the team and rebuild around Jimmy and Rajon? Nope, we sign Dwyane Wade....I have no ****ing clue what this FO is thinking.

So now, you have 3 alpha players whose played under some amazing coaches (Jimmy - Thibs, Rajon - Doc, Dwade - Riley) who now play under a ****ing push over. If Hoiberg showed some balls and acted like this was his locker room, I'd have a little more respect for the guy, but he's essentially Marc Trestman'd this team and let the players run the asylum.

From what I witnessed this year, and it's been harder to watch games this year since I did move to Scottsdale from Chicago, but 1) Thibs was right - our talent ****ing sucks 2) Hoiberg is one of the worst coaches in the NBA. He is essentially Tim Floyd 3) This team needs to blow up and start from scratch.

But garpax has to get fired now.

72 Wins
01-27-2017, 01:27 PM
effen5, well said..... 100% agree.

Cracka2HI!
01-27-2017, 01:51 PM
Damn effen! Had no idea it was that bad and been brewing so long. Good post. I agree it sounds like they need to fire Paxon and I really knew nothing of the situation before your post. Seeing the way things are now I can't imagine it being much different then that.

All that said, I need them to waive Rondo. There is only 1 team in the league that I think can use him and it's my Clippers with Doc. I think that's probably the only coach he'd play for. Even with that I'd only want him cause CP is out and I think Doc can reign him in for half a season. I wouldn't want him long term on anything more than a minimum deal.

Shammyguy3
01-27-2017, 01:52 PM
The Bulls front office traded Rose didnt resign Noah and told Jimmy Butler it was his team and then they signed two Alpha Males in Wade+Rondo and expected their to be no problems there are 3 separate guys who think they are the Alpha veteran leader for the team thats just not going to work...I expect them to blow up this experiment around the deadline personally

the alpha stuff is not the problem- Butler and Wade influence one another and degrade the rest of the roster (which is garbage). It's not three alphas not fitting, it's just two prime time players demanding more publicly that shouldn't expect anything better from a roster that sucks

Shammyguy3
01-27-2017, 01:55 PM
How many years did it take for the White Sox to blow up the team? It's been 12 years now since the last championship and finally they decided to blow it up.

Whose ready for a long post?

This all started with the feud between Thibs and Garpax.

This **** would NEVER EVER happen under Thibs leadership. He held everyone accountable, including Derrick Rose in his prime. Garpax jealousy and personal feelings got in the way of business and probably thought Thibs was overrated (Actually I know for a fact Gar thought Thibs was overrated just because of the post Thibs firing conference) and let him go.

Lets go back a little bit more. This entire culture of players running the asylum did happen in the last few years under Thibs, but not at the fault of Thibs but because the hatred of the front office had for Thibs. Here is a small tidbit from an article post Thibs firing.



I just find it ironic, that the reason they fired Thibs was because of heavy work load but your two best players on the team this year says our players aren't practicing hard enough.

So when people look at Thibs final season and say **** like players started to tune out Thibs, that culture, that toxic environment, it started with our front office.

The following year, in the offseason, Gar tried to convince Bulls fans that it was Thibs offense was the reason this team couldn't win and not because of the talent mostly because the team of young players right now are all Gar's picks. Thibs refused to play Niko and Doug because he knew 3 years ago how mediocre or how bad they are.

Now I understand the firing, even though in my opinion it should have been Garpax that should have been let go but now lets fast forward a bit. Instead of doing another exhaustive search for a coach, Gar spends four ****ing days and hires his best friend whom he's known for a long time Hoiberg. A lot of Bulls fans in the Bulls forum loved the idea of Hoiberg. I ****ing hated it. I thought he was going to be a yes man.

Gar in the offseason pretty much said this was a championship caliber team with the roster intact. We missed the playoffs for the first time since 2008. ****ing embarrassing. So instead of blowing this team up, we sign Rajon Rondo. Why? I don't ****ing know, nobody ****ing knows. So maybe blow up the team and rebuild around Jimmy and Rajon? Nope, we sign Dwyane Wade....I have no ****ing clue what this FO is thinking.

So now, you have 3 alpha players whose played under some amazing coaches (Jimmy - Thibs, Rajon - Doc, Dwade - Riley) who now play under a ****ing push over. If Hoiberg showed some balls and acted like this was his locker room, I'd have a little more respect for the guy, but he's essentially Marc Trestman'd this team and let the players run the asylum.

From what I witnessed this year, and it's been harder to watch games this year since I did move to Scottsdale from Chicago, but 1) Thibs was right - our talent ****ing sucks 2) Hoiberg is one of the worst coaches in the NBA. He is essentially Tim Floyd 3) This team needs to blow up and start from scratch.

But garpax has to get fired now.
A lot of truth here but I completely disagree that this wouldn't happen under Thibs because it did start happening under Thibs two seasons ago. The common denominators here are Gar, Pax(idk how much of an influence he has on drafting or signing players tho), and Butler

phi2134
01-27-2017, 02:17 PM
What is Reinsdorf's involvement in the team anymore? Of course, he writes the checks, but does anyone know if he makes any of the calls even? Being in Chicago and seeing dominant owners such as the wirtz family and the ricketts, its not even a question where i think the issues stem from. Hell, look at the bears too, when is the last time the mccaskeys made a public appearance besides to watch their bears lose in awful fashion in an awful stadium.

I imagine GarPax on each side of Reinsdorf with a little Weekend at Bernie's shenanigans going on.

LA4life24/8
01-27-2017, 02:52 PM
Shouldn't have gotten players thats games dont mesh. Wade/butler/rondo just dont fit... then they add mcw... just no shooting, too much alpha and not enough Balance to be successful. Saw this coming even with their pretty good start.

JasonJohnHorn
01-29-2017, 05:05 PM
The Bulls front office is the cause here. They've let guys go because they didn't want to pay, let a great coach go because of ego, and they've been kidding themselves that they are not in rebuild-mode for about three seasons now.


I feel bad for the players all around, because they are just going to look at each other, but it is really the culture this front office has established.