PDA

View Full Version : Coaching Hot Seat: Unusually Quiet?



Giannis94
01-24-2017, 12:35 PM
Seems like the hot seat for Head Coaches is unusually quiet for this time of year.

Any predictions as to who is next to go? Off the top of my head is Hoiberg, but he may have been dealt a bad deck of cards/roster.

sixer04fan
01-24-2017, 12:53 PM
I think it's still too early to say anyone's on the hot seat. Definitely pretty quiet this year.

Vogel's been a pretty big disappointment so far with Orlando, but he's highly regarded and I don't see them being impatient with him. Joerger in Sacramento - just because it's Sacramento... Hornacek in NY is Phil Jackson gets too impatient? But again, he's in his first year so I don't see it.

Wade n Fade
01-24-2017, 04:36 PM
I think Dwayne Casey should be fired, but the Raptors organization won't do it. If the Bucks end up with a lotto pick again this season, they might let go of Jason Kidd. The Knicks might fire their coach as well. I personally think Phil Jackson should be let go instead because the Knicks are still crap. Pelicans should fire Alvin Gentry.

TheDish87
01-24-2017, 05:20 PM
Why should Casey be fired?

Blink
01-24-2017, 08:41 PM
Detroit fans are calling for SVG to step down.

Clearly dont agree with them. I love SVG.

Giannis94
01-26-2017, 10:23 AM
I officially nominate Jkidd.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-26-2017, 11:09 AM
I had Kidd picked last season already.

72 Wins
01-26-2017, 01:11 PM
Hoiberg is in year 2 of a 5 year/25 million....... If the Bulls had the balls they would have fired him yesterday.

Giannis94
01-26-2017, 01:39 PM
Hoiberg is in year 2 of a 5 year/25 million....... If the Bulls had the balls they would have fired him yesterday.

our coach has connections with the owners so therefore won't be fired before hoiberg.

JasonJohnHorn
01-26-2017, 02:04 PM
There are a couple other issues at play.

1. Teams have realized blaming the coach EVERY time is counter productive. If the Pistons had fired Chuck Daly for not winning soon enough like teams fire coaches this year, they wouldn't have one two titles. The Bulls, in theory, could have fired Phil Jackson after his first season because he failed to perform any better than Doug Collins (both lost to the Pistons in the conference finals). If teams took the same attitude 25 years ago that they took now, half of the great coaches would have never gotten a chance to be a great coach and would have been branded failures after their first or second season on the job. Teams are realizing a great coach may need some time to develop the roster, especially when they are taking over a losing team, or a team in transition.

2. Teams are tanking. They've (as in ownership or the front office) resigned themselves to losing, and are fine with that, and so are leaving the coach in place. How else can you possible explain Brett Brown keeping his job? I mean... he's stringing together the worst 4-season stretch in the history of the league. This will be the first year he's cracked 20 wins (assuming he manages that). That just seems crazy.

3. Team locked themselves into long-term deals with coaches. The Steve Kerr sweepstakes launched this into full swing, but it's happened when trying to lure college coaches to the NBA in the past as well. Kerr spurred the Knicks to join the Warriors because they offered more money and he won a title in his first year, and has been to the finals each season, and is on pace to average 70 wins a year in his first three seasons with the team. Unprecedented success. Problem is, that is a 1-in-a-million chance. Teams are chasing it, so they are throwing big money at new/college coaches, and even vet coaches. Doc has an unhealthy salary, and though he his nepotism policy has clearly impeded the team's growth, he still has a job. Hoiberg has some cash owing to him still. And in these instances it is easy to point to other issues, like the roster or injuries. And small market teams now have to compete with big market teams for coaches, but can't afford to pay three coaches at once like LAL and NY can.


4. Teams who were quick to fire qualified coaches can't now fire the guy they hired to replace him, because they'll have egg on their face. I love Nate McMillan. But that team is regressing when they should be taking a step forward. There was no legit reason to fire Frank Vogel. With Paul George returning to form, and Myles Turner going into his sophomore season and improving on a solid rookie campaign, there is no reason to expect anything less than the Pacer maintaining their record from last season and hopefully improving upon it. Not the case. However, if the Pacers fire the guy they got to replace the guy they fired, they'll just look like idiots (which they are) for firing a top-tier coach they already had. You get this with SVG too. The Pistons hired him and in the process, the new management fired Joe D, which I realize many (even Detroit fans) thought was justified. But Dumars was not only a loyal company man, who often shouldered the blame for calls made above his head, but he also managed to do what no other current GM in the league has done: build a team in a small market and win a title and contend for a long duration. The new management used him as scapegoat (twice over; once for their own coach hiring, and for the general status of the team, which was more about ownership transition than more management) and put all their chips onto SVG. For what? So SVG could have a lower winning percentage than Cheeks did his first season? I mean, they didn't even give Cheeks and entire season! And they blame that on Dumars, when they brought Phil Jackson in to advise on the new coach hiring? Please. I like SVG, but at the end of the day, the progress to a step back, then a small step forward, and are now taking a step back again. Why is SVG not being held to account? Well... he's doing a decent job with what he has (as was Dumars), but there are limits to building a team in a city where there are more homicides than sunsets and is in economic ruin, and the ownership simply didn't acknowledge that when Joe D was there, but seem perfectly fine with it now that a guy they picked is in charge. Anyways....

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-26-2017, 02:20 PM
Don't forget Paul George is a bit moody this year. Shocked he hasn't asked for a trade yet.

JasonJohnHorn
01-26-2017, 02:22 PM
I had Kidd picked last season already.

Right. Because any team with Tony Snell as a starter should be in the finals, right? ;-)

Seriously... I know Bucks fans are high on Gianwlongunpronounceable name and Parker (and with good cause: those two are great, I love Giannis: once in a generation player), but they don't have the supporting cast.


Kidd, as a coach, is doing about as well as can be expected with that roster.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-26-2017, 02:43 PM
Well the Middleton injury didn't help us. Since Middleton was our best player last season. But Kidd's crazy rotations easily lost us about 8 games this year alone. I don't mind Snell. He's been averaging like over .435 from downtown for December and January. Better then seeing MCW dribble the air out of the ball and turn the ball over like 6 times a game. I still expect the Bucks to make a trade or two at the deadline. Still good chance we cant afford to keep Snell though this summer even as a RFA. Bucks only have like $9.5M before we sign draft picks.

Yeah we can match but be in luxury tax if Moose opts in. Also since our rookies Brogdon and Maker easily can replace the production of Delly, Telly i'd use Delly and Telly as trade bait as well. I'd even trade Snell and Beasily and Moose. Hard to say if we can find any takers for Henson though. Blazers could get desperate for a big man like Henson but all they probably offer up is bad contract of Leonard. But he's more less same player as Telly.

Giannis94
01-26-2017, 03:47 PM
Well the Middleton injury didn't help us. Since Middleton was our best player last season. But Kidd's crazy rotations easily lost us about 8 games this year alone. I don't mind Snell. He's been averaging like over .435 from downtown for December and January. Better then seeing MCW dribble the air out of the ball and turn the ball over like 6 times a game. I still expect the Bucks to make a trade or two at the deadline. Still good chance we cant afford to keep Snell though this summer even as a RFA. Bucks only have like $9.5M before we sign draft picks.

Yeah we can match but be in luxury tax if Moose opts in. Also since our rookies Brogdon and Maker easily can replace the production of Delly, Telly i'd use Delly and Telly as trade bait as well. I'd even trade Snell and Beasily and Moose. Hard to say if we can find any takers for Henson though. Blazers could get desperate for a big man like Henson but all they probably offer up is bad contract of Leonard. But he's more less same player as Telly.

Would you consider the thought of trading Jabari if we could get another young star and trade a few bad contracts in the process?

JasonJohnHorn
01-26-2017, 04:45 PM
Well the Middleton injury didn't help us. Since Middleton was our best player last season. But Kidd's crazy rotations easily lost us about 8 games this year alone. I don't mind Snell. He's been averaging like over .435 from downtown for December and January. Better then seeing MCW dribble the air out of the ball and turn the ball over like 6 times a game. I still expect the Bucks to make a trade or two at the deadline. Still good chance we cant afford to keep Snell though this summer even as a RFA. Bucks only have like $9.5M before we sign draft picks.

Yeah we can match but be in luxury tax if Moose opts in. Also since our rookies Brogdon and Maker easily can replace the production of Delly, Telly i'd use Delly and Telly as trade bait as well. I'd even trade Snell and Beasily and Moose. Hard to say if we can find any takers for Henson though. Blazers could get desperate for a big man like Henson but all they probably offer up is bad contract of Leonard. But he's more less same player as Telly.

I expect that you have a better view on this than I, since I assume, as a Bucks fan, you watch more of their games. I do hear from fans all over the league, if the coach had done this, or this, we would have won that game, or that game. But there are other things the coach did to keep the team in the game up until that point that another coach might not have done. He might have tried similar rotations with similar match-ups before and got burned on it. I'm not siding with Kidd, and you may well be right (I wouldn't make an argument against something I can't quantify). However, when we step into 'what ifs' with rotation changes, then D-Rose wouldn't have gotten that injury because Thibbs would have pulled him out instead of leaving him in to get a 3D game, Vogel wouldn't have pulled Hibbert out early and they would have beat the Heat, and Pop wouldn't have pulled Duncan out on the last play of game six in the finals and given up an offensive rebound, and sent the Heat packing the first, AND second year they played the Heat.

An injury could be the difference between winning 10 games and losing 10 games A rotation could be the difference between winning 10 or losing 10. It's hard to say. And Kidd's roster changes may very well be hurting that team. But as an outsider looking in, on a team gets $#!T calls from officials, and doesn't have a lot of depth, a .500 record (or there abouts) is pretty good all things considered.

I'm not saying Kidd's great.... but I'm not sure many other coaches who would be willing to take the job would be doing much better.

Giannis94
01-26-2017, 08:34 PM
I expect that you have a better view on this than I, since I assume, as a Bucks fan, you watch more of their games. I do hear from fans all over the league, if the coach had done this, or this, we would have won that game, or that game. But there are other things the coach did to keep the team in the game up until that point that another coach might not have done. He might have tried similar rotations with similar match-ups before and got burned on it. I'm not siding with Kidd, and you may well be right (I wouldn't make an argument against something I can't quantify). However, when we step into 'what ifs' with rotation changes, then D-Rose wouldn't have gotten that injury because Thibbs would have pulled him out instead of leaving him in to get a 3D game, Vogel wouldn't have pulled Hibbert out early and they would have beat the Heat, and Pop wouldn't have pulled Duncan out on the last play of game six in the finals and given up an offensive rebound, and sent the Heat packing the first, AND second year they played the Heat.

An injury could be the difference between winning 10 games and losing 10 games A rotation could be the difference between winning 10 or losing 10. It's hard to say. And Kidd's roster changes may very well be hurting that team. But as an outsider looking in, on a team gets $#!T calls from officials, and doesn't have a lot of depth, a .500 record (or there abouts) is pretty good all things considered.

I'm not saying Kidd's great.... but I'm not sure many other coaches who would be willing to take the job would be doing much better.

It's tough because there isn't a "can't miss" coach out there like Thibs, or Luke Walton