PDA

View Full Version : Which Franchise Would You Rather Be?



sixer04fan
01-23-2017, 02:37 PM
There's been a lot of "debate" about which rebuilding franchise is best off, which is rebuilds are being done "the right way," etc. Let's put some things in perspective here and rethink the debate.

Sixers

Current record: 15-27 (.357)


Current main core (likely): Joel Embiid, Ben Simmons, Dario Saric
Primary trade bait: Nerlens Noel, Jahlil Okafor
Incoming future assets: 2017 Lakers pick (top 3 protected, unprotected in 2018), 2017 draft pick swap rights with Sacramento if Sac ends up with higher pick, two 2017 2nd round picks from DET and/or GS and/or NYK and/or Utah (most and least favorable), 2018 second round pick from Cleveland and/or Brooklyn (more favorable), 2018 2nd round pick from LAC or NYK (more favorable), 2019 first round pick from Sacramento (unprotected), 2019 2nd round pick from MIL or SAC (more favorable), 2019 2nd round pick from NYK, 2020 first round pick from OKC (top 20 protected years 1-3, turns to two 2nd round picks after that), 2020 2nd round pick from BKN, 2020 2nd round pick from NYK, 2021 2nd round pick from NYK
Outgoing future assets: 2017 2nd round pick to NOP
Other intriguing young players: Robert Covington, Richaun Holmes, Timothe Luwawu, Furkan Korkmaz



Wolves

Current record: 16-28 (.364)


Current main core (likely): Karl Anthony Towns, Andrew Wiggins, Zach LaVine, Kris Dunn
Primary trade bait: Ricky Rubio, Shabazz Muhammad
Incoming future assets: 2017 2nd round pick from NOP, 2019 second round pick from Miami
Outgoing future assets: 2017 2nd round pick to BOS, 2018 first round pick to ATL, 2019 2nd round pick to POR or CLE
Other intriguing young players: Tyus Jones



Lakers

Current record: 16-32 (.333)


Current main core (likely): Brandon Ingram, Julius Randle, DeAngelo Russell
Primary trade bait: Jordan Clarkson
Incoming future assets: 2018 2nd round pick from DEN, 2019 2nd round pick from CHI
Outgoing future assets: 2017 first round pick to PHI (top 3 protected, unprotected in 2018), 2019 first round pick to ORL (will turn into two 2nd round picks if their 2017 pick goes to PHI), 2019 2nd round pick to POR or CLE
Other intriguing young player: Tarik Black, Larry Nance Jr., Ivica Zubac

warfelg
01-23-2017, 02:58 PM
Sixers. This isn't much of an argument.

mightybosstone
01-23-2017, 03:09 PM
This won't be a popular opinion, but I actually think the answer is super obvious, and that's the Lakers. Of the three teams, I actually think they haveóby faróthe worst core of young players. They don't have anyone that I think could even touch Karl Anthony Towns or Joel Embiid in terms of potential right now. And both Minnesota and Philadelphia have better assets and prospects around those guys.

But that being said, how many middling cellar dwellers with young potential stars on their rosters have we seen in the last 20 years that did absolutely nothing with them? Hell, Minnesota has done it twice with KG and Love. And in the history of the Lakers franchise, how many times have we seen them go into rebuilding mode for 5-10 years only to come out with a contender because of 1-2 superstar acquisitions?

LA may have swung and missed on superstars over the last couple of summers. But even with a new front office and little star potential on the roster, I don't think that will last. Eventually someone will want to be the player that helps revitalize the Lakers and makes them relevant again. It's just a matter of time.

I guess if the question had been worded differently, I would have picked another team. Like "Which team has the better prospects?" or "Which team has the best chance to make the playoffs in the next 3-5 years?" Both of those answers would easily be teams other than LA. But if we're talking long-term potential, there's few franchises in the league I would probably take over the Lakers, even when they're terrible.

NYKalltheway
01-23-2017, 03:14 PM
Lakers. Just because they're the Lakers.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2017, 03:18 PM
This won't be a popular opinion, but I actually think the answer is super obvious, and that's the Lakers. Of the three teams, I actually think they haveóby faróthe worst core of young players. They don't have anyone that I think could even touch Karl Anthony Towns or Joel Embiid in terms of potential right now. And both Minnesota and Philadelphia have better assets and prospects around those guys.

But that being said, how many middling cellar dwellers with young potential stars on their rosters have we seen in the last 20 years that did absolutely nothing with them? Hell, Minnesota has done it twice with KG and Love. And in the history of the Lakers franchise, how many times have we seen them go into rebuilding mode for 5-10 years only to come out with a contender because of 1-2 superstar acquisitions?

LA may have swung and missed on superstars over the last couple of summers. But even with a new front office and little star potential on the roster, I don't think that will last. Eventually someone will want to be the player that helps revitalize the Lakers and makes them relevant again. It's just a matter of time.

I guess if the question had been worded differently, I would have picked another team. Like "Which team has the better prospects?" or "Which team has the best chance to make the playoffs in the next 3-5 years?" Both of those answers would easily be teams other than LA. But if we're talking long-term potential, there's few franchises in the league I would probably take over the Lakers, even when they're terrible.

part of me thinks the Lakers ownership is a true mess, and the big market appeal not being what it was, makes a difference now.

That being said, it will take a lot longer than a 3-4 year downturn to believe the freakin' Lakers won't regain contender status soon enough, so I tend to agree with you on this.

TheDish87
01-23-2017, 03:35 PM
the only wrong answer is the Lakers.

Vincent
01-23-2017, 03:47 PM
I still think the best player out of any of these franchises is Minnesota (KAT), so I have a tendency to lean towards the best player (and in this case, the best coach).

And while i'm not a particular believer in Wiggins, he's a proven NBA scorer and could demand a haul if you ever decide to move away from him.

I like Tyus Jones quite a bit, and still haven't come close to giving up on Kris Dunn.

There's also the incredible ceiling that Zach LaVine has (which could also demand a haul if you decide he's not the right fit).

Not to mention that you also left out a relatively efficient Dieng off the asset list.

Minny for me

DanG
01-23-2017, 03:53 PM
The Lakers are a mess right now. We don't have a direction, young players aren't being developed properly, wrong system, horrible lineups & rotations etc. Our go to guy right now is Lou Williams and our offense is built for shot jacking. It's early, but I've been really disappointed with Luke Walton so far. We've lost 22 of the last 28 and he hasn't tried to change anything significantly during this stretch.

Love the Sixers, Embiid-Simmons duo will be great to watch and I like the promise Embiid shows on the defensive end compared to KAT. They just have so many great things going on (possible 2 lottery picks and Noel+Jah as trade bait).

Wolves I'm not that impressed by the young core except for KAT. Wiggins I expected more out of him this year tbh, I know it's early, but he just seems disengaged too often.

1. Sixers
2. Lakers
3. Wolves

I picked LAL over Wolves just because of the history of the Lakers.

europagnpilgrim
01-23-2017, 05:27 PM
Sixers and Lakers, both big market teams with a rich nba history

Minny will always be on the outside no matter the talent, they had a better trio back then in KG/Marbury/Gugliotta and we all know how that turned out, deja vu all over again and they had the only titles won in Minny history taken from them when Lakers relocated so they are just a b- side franchise at best, Thibs will trade for a proven player and probably mess up the process as he shouldn't have total control any way, but I hope I am wrong because I always pulled for KG/Minny and I am glad they have a nice young core finally after killing KG career for most of his duration there

Lakers would help the league more to be contenders now with the wider fanbase of the league but to me Philly has the better core players and depending what Simmons does they will have 2 sure fire franchise players, Embiid is one of the best players in the league right now and I don't care about his minutes restriction I am basing it off what he is showcasing on the floor, like it always has been

Giannis94
01-23-2017, 06:33 PM
Bucks are the clear #2 and could make a strong case for #1 if we include the fact that Oden Jr is a massive question mark going forward

Although, I assume we are not including them as they are no longer in the asset collection stsges.

hugepatsfan
01-23-2017, 06:41 PM
I go Wolves > 76ers > Lakers. I think MIN has a legit, young big 3. PHI has a true stud in Embiid and Simmons should be great too. Lakers have a great core but I don't like their upside as much as the MIN/PHI guys. Lakers can negate that though with a FA splash that they're the most likely to make, though the new rules make it harder than in the past.

mrblisterdundee
01-23-2017, 06:52 PM
The 76ers, as long as Embiid's feet hold out. People underestimate how valuable Noel can be, with his ability to defend all five positions. He's going to be some team's primary rim protector in the near future, and he'll hopefully net the 76ers a star in the back court. I'm actively cheerleading my Blazers to trade McCollum for Noel, at least after their new contracts start.

warfelg
01-23-2017, 06:53 PM
I go Wolves > 76ers > Lakers. I think MIN has a legit, young big 3. PHI has a true stud in Embiid and Simmons should be great too. Lakers have a great core but I don't like their upside as much as the MIN/PHI guys. Lakers can negate that though with a FA splash that they're the most likely to make, though the new rules make it harder than in the past.

I think what puts the Sixers over the Wolves are the traide bait is better, the assets coming in are better, and the intriguing players are better.

I feel like too many people are looking at this with what is there now and not what the future looks like.

Also Sixers have more ability than the Lakers to make a spash in FA because of the space for Multiple Big Contracts.

mrblisterdundee
01-23-2017, 07:01 PM
the only wrong answer is the Lakers.

How is one of the two most storied franchises in NBA history a bad answer? They have at least one young star in the making, and possibly up to three or four. And they have Los Angeles, still potent enough to steal two NFL teams in one year to go along with its two NBA teams.

CELTICS4LYFE
01-23-2017, 08:37 PM
Celtics?

Back in the playoffs already with lotto picks.

sixer04fan
01-23-2017, 08:41 PM
Bucks are the clear #2 and could make a strong case for #1 if we include the fact that Oden Jr is a massive question mark going forward

Although, I assume we are not including them as they are no longer in the asset collection stsges.

Yeah. Although the Bucks are another young core team, I left them out because they're in a more advanced stage of their "rebuild." They are already pretty good and their future has more clarity.

mightybosstone
01-23-2017, 08:50 PM
Bucks are the clear #2 and could make a strong case for #1 if we include the fact that Oden Jr is a massive question mark going forward

Although, I assume we are not including them as they are no longer in the asset collection stsges.

You realize the Bucks aren't on the list, right? I mean, I get that you're a Bucks homer and that's kinda your thing, but let's try to stay on topic here.

Giannis94
01-23-2017, 09:09 PM
You realize the Bucks aren't on the list, right? I mean, I get that you're a Bucks homer and that's kinda your thing, but let's try to stay on topic here.

Although Trump is not making college free like Bernie and crew wanted to, the skill of reading was taught early in grade school, thus there is no excuse for your failed trolling and reading comprehension. I would encourage you to revist your materials from those classes and reread the last sentence (which also features spelling error due to being on mobile. Can you find it?!?!).

More-Than-Most
01-23-2017, 09:11 PM
Saric/Embiid/simmons... our first plus the lakers first and the kings swap makes its clear as day esp with the 2 way potential of embiid.

The weird thing is.... there is one piece alot of non sixers fans dont know about and its our 23rd pick last year who was projected to be a lottery pick but dropped because i think of injury... TLC is raw but man he looks good

More-Than-Most
01-23-2017, 09:13 PM
This won't be a popular opinion, but I actually think the answer is super obvious, and that's the Lakers. Of the three teams, I actually think they haveóby faróthe worst core of young players. They don't have anyone that I think could even touch Karl Anthony Towns or Joel Embiid in terms of potential right now. And both Minnesota and Philadelphia have better assets and prospects around those guys.

But that being said, how many middling cellar dwellers with young potential stars on their rosters have we seen in the last 20 years that did absolutely nothing with them? Hell, Minnesota has done it twice with KG and Love. And in the history of the Lakers franchise, how many times have we seen them go into rebuilding mode for 5-10 years only to come out with a contender because of 1-2 superstar acquisitions?

LA may have swung and missed on superstars over the last couple of summers. But even with a new front office and little star potential on the roster, I don't think that will last. Eventually someone will want to be the player that helps revitalize the Lakers and makes them relevant again. It's just a matter of time.

I guess if the question had been worded differently, I would have picked another team. Like "Which team has the better prospects?" or "Which team has the best chance to make the playoffs in the next 3-5 years?" Both of those answers would easily be teams other than LA. But if we're talking long-term potential, there's few franchises in the league I would probably take over the Lakers, even when they're terrible.

its a different nba for the lakers though... what they did before wont work now... they cant just rely on their market because all teams have a **** ton of money and what you make in popularity you lose in taxes there which is a bit unfair tbh.

More-Than-Most
01-23-2017, 09:15 PM
If wiggins was better and towns was showing signs on defense the only answer would be the wolves... wiggins looks really really bad and really really selfish on the court.... towns will be a god regaurdless but who would have thought levine would be their 2nd best prospect/player?

More-Than-Most
01-23-2017, 09:17 PM
the thing that makes the sixers worrisome is embiid... even i get scared everytime he goes down... he plays like a pg and that might be his downfall with how he goes 1000 percent game in and game out and jumps and flies all over... so if someone says because embiid health they would take the wolves that would be 1000 percent ideal.

More-Than-Most
01-23-2017, 09:18 PM
Yeah. Although the Bucks are another young core team, I left them out because they're in a more advanced stage of their "rebuild." They are already pretty good and their future has more clarity.


You realize the Bucks aren't on the list, right? I mean, I get that you're a Bucks homer and that's kinda your thing, but let's try to stay on topic here.

the bucks being on there might be ideal... they have a big 2 as well who are young and are they really that much better than the sixers/wolves? wolves will eventually turn it around and the bucks dont look like the world team that people seem to be crowning even with the goat like player that is Baby embiid.

Giannis94
01-23-2017, 09:27 PM
the bucks being on there might be ideal... they have a big 2 as well who are young and are they really that much better than the sixers/wolves? wolves will eventually turn it around and the bucks dont look like the world team that people seem to be crowning even with the goat like player that is Baby embiid.

You're forgetting middleton. I could go on but op already said reason they are not on there is because of my last setence in my original post; they're in the advanced stages of the rebuild. Just need to find a good coach

TheDish87
01-24-2017, 09:31 AM
of course the 2 clowns i have blocked dominated this page. Talk about a let down lol.

TheDish87
01-24-2017, 09:35 AM
How is one of the two most storied franchises in NBA history a bad answer? They have at least one young star in the making, and possibly up to three or four. And they have Los Angeles, still potent enough to steal two NFL teams in one year to go along with its two NBA teams.

who cares if they are storied? Whens the last time they signed a major FA? Their young guys are a let down so far outside of Ingram (seems to be coming along) and if you take away Lou and Swaggy they might not even have more than 5 wins right now. They have very few assets too, what are they gonna do if they give the Sixers the 4th pick? Thats gonna be brutal for them.

Giannis94
01-24-2017, 11:13 AM
of course the 2 clowns i have blocked dominated this page. Talk about a let down lol.

y u h8r

tp13baby
01-24-2017, 11:52 AM
Saric/Embiid/simmons... our first plus the lakers first and the kings swap makes its clear as day esp with the 2 way potential of embiid.

The weird thing is.... there is one piece alot of non sixers fans dont know about and its our 23rd pick last year who was projected to be a lottery pick but dropped because i think of injury... TLC is raw but man he looks good

TLC dropped because he played in a run and gun league and scouts questioned whether his game would translate because he isn't exceptionally skilled other than elite athleticism. Still love him and he could of been but if anything a really late lotto pick but ultimately late teens is where I saw him going.

76ers, then Wolves, then LA. I really can't imagine how good they will be 1. Embiid stays healthy. 2. Simmons lives up to potential and improves his shot. 3. Upgrade the guard postion, dear lord.

If they end up with LA's pick that nets them a top PG, which looking at the roster I think Fultz or Smith works better with that team. Allows them to be creative with the 2nd lottery pick. Good lord.

mightybosstone
01-24-2017, 12:57 PM
Although Trump is not making college free like Bernie and crew wanted to, the skill of reading was taught early in grade school, thus there is no excuse for your failed trolling and reading comprehension. I would encourage you to revist your materials from those classes and reread the last sentence (which also features spelling error due to being on mobile. Can you find it?!?!).

I wasn't trolling, chief. Nor do I lack reading comprehension (I edit for a living). My problem is that you randomly feel the need to insert the Bucks or Giannis into every single thread whether they're relevant or not. You didn't even provide a legitimate take on the actual thread itself. It's just a tad on the obnoxious side, and maybe it's something you could work on moving forward. :shrug:

Giannis94
01-24-2017, 01:03 PM
I wasn't trolling, chief. Nor do I lack reading comprehension (I edit for a living). My problem is that you randomly feel the need to insert the Bucks or Giannis into every single thread whether they're relevant or not. You didn't even provide a legitimate take on the actual thread itself. It's just a tad on the obnoxious side, and maybe it's something you could work on moving forward. :shrug:

I thought the Bucks should be in talks if we are talking about future going forward. But then I realized that they are in the advancd stages of the rebuild which is why OP did not include them. I am going to stop/limit my posting.

sixer04fan
01-24-2017, 01:06 PM
I thought the Bucks should be in talks if we are talking about future going forward. But then I realized that they are in the advancd stages of the rebuild which is why OP did not include them. I am going to stop/limit my posting.

Not sure if you answered this already or not - but which of these specific 3 would you rather be/are better off?

Giannis94
01-24-2017, 01:09 PM
Not sure if you answered this already or not - but which of these specific 3 would you rather be/are better off?

Behind the 76ers and ahead of the Wolves and lakers if we are assuming full health.

CC: War, MTM

TheDish87
01-24-2017, 02:22 PM
TLC dropped because he played in a run and gun league and scouts questioned whether his game would translate because he isn't exceptionally skilled other than elite athleticism. Still love him and he could of been but if anything a really late lotto pick but ultimately late teens is where I saw him going.

76ers, then Wolves, then LA. I really can't imagine how good they will be 1. Embiid stays healthy. 2. Simmons lives up to potential and improves his shot. 3. Upgrade the guard postion, dear lord.

If they end up with LA's pick that nets them a top PG, which looking at the roster I think Fultz or Smith works better with that team. Allows them to be creative with the 2nd lottery pick. Good lord.

I knew nothing about TLC coming into the draft but i really like the way hes been developing, kid has game. Should be a key bench piece moving forward for us. Dennis Smith has been lights out lately, really starting to hope we can draft him.

Jetsguy
01-24-2017, 02:44 PM
Bucks are the clear #2 and could make a strong case for #1 if we include the fact that Oden Jr is a massive question mark going forward

Although, I assume we are not including them as they are no longer in the asset collection stsges.

Cant I read through one ****ing NBA thread without you jumping in and bringing up the Bucks or Giannis?

tp13baby
01-24-2017, 02:52 PM
I knew nothing about TLC coming into the draft but i really like the way hes been developing, kid has game. Should be a key bench piece moving forward for us. Dennis Smith has been lights out lately, really starting to hope we can draft him.

Denver heavily scouted him from what I recall so I heard good amount on him.

Dennis would be a unbelievable fit. I love Lonzo Ball but I don't like the fit in Philly.

TheDish87
01-24-2017, 03:07 PM
I like Ball too and would be fine with him but i have finally been able to see more of Smith lately and i now prefer him.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-24-2017, 03:30 PM
76ers probably. Long as Embiid stays healthy and hits on another high lottery pick. Then land a big free agent they be ready to rock. Lakers be hurting down the road keeping the young core with bad contracts of Mozgov and Deng. Also Russell seems to be a botched pick. Wolves maybe could of been pushing 76ers if Wiggins was playing better but he isn't. Also depends what they get in a Rubio trade. Get Pek scratched off the cap with retirement next summer Wolves be sitting pretty. Wolves will have to hit on their lottery pick as well. Also I don't see Lakers being patient with its young core. I could see them trading for a old star.

ManRam
01-24-2017, 03:36 PM
I trust the process. #FreeHinkie

ewing
01-24-2017, 03:45 PM
I'm going to say Sixers b/c i think they have a guy that will be a legit MVP

TheDish87
01-24-2017, 04:03 PM
I'm going to say Sixers b/c i think they have a guy that will be a legit MVP

i knew you liked Simmons!

Alayla
01-24-2017, 11:30 PM
I'm going to say the 76ers (barring Embiid or Simmons going down longterm) only because the Bucks are not a choice for some odd reason.
We have a wealth of assets and are already turning the corner. People slept on us pretty hard coming into this season but we are starting to prove this team isn't the mess people thought it was.

Quinnsanity
01-25-2017, 01:48 AM
The Sixers have the best player, the Wolves have the most valuable overall assets, the Lakers have the most league wide respect and most flexible future. I don't think any is being run optimally (Lakers are the closest honestly). Just for fun here's what I'd do with each:

If I were running the Wolves I'd be preparing to trade Wiggins either at the deadline or at the draft so I could use my two DPE's on Towns and LaVine and push back the extension clock on the Wiggins asset (I'd be looking to trade him for multiple high draft picks/young players). I absolutely hate his attitude. Try on defense man, you're supposed to be a star player. I also don't like forwards who can't shoot (though I'll make exceptions for great defenders or guys who bring other things to the table, which Wiggins really doesn't). He just screams future high-end Rudy Gay to me. See if you can nab both Brooklyn picks from Boston. See if you can get Winslow and their 2017 pick from Miami. Deals like that. Someone would bite.

If I were running the Sixers I'd go to teams with older guards and offer Okafor. The Spurs with Tony Parker are my dream example (if they want to chase George Hill next summer and need the cap space), Wade if he'd be willing to go there (obviously you'd have to max him out or come close to it, at least on a short term deal), at least sniff around Lowry this summer as an FA (he's from Philly after all), guys who can be starters now and eventually fall into a bench role but really set the example in the locker room for Embiid, Simmons and the young guys. Keep Noel as a long term backup (honestly I see no reason why he, Saric, Simmons and Embiid can't coexist at least in the short term. Saric can play some 3, Embiid is never gonna be a 38 minutes per game guy, Simmons probably shouldn't be at first, let this thing play out). Use their pick(s) on guards (Malik Monk is the one I'm really eyeing because they need shooting, but obviously you don't pass on Fultz or Ball if you have the chance for one). Just keep bringing in the young guys and find some veteran leadership. Frankly I think by next season they should have more than enough in the way of young players and would see diminishing returns if they tried to tank again. There just aren't enough minutes to go around for all of those lottery guys.

If I'm the Lakers, I'm tanking this year, trying to get one last blue chip young guy. It doesn't even have to be a guy from this year's class. Sniff around the trade market. Maybe you can Indiana to give up Myles Turner for a top-3 pick. They need a big guy anyway. Make that kind of offer to Detroit (Drummond), and hell, if you're so inclined, maybe OKC (Steven Adams). If there isn't anything immediately appealing on the table, just grab the BPA and give them a year to see who should stay and who should go. You could do worse than having Fultz and D'Angelo Russell learning to coexist. Both can shoot enough to make that work. In any case, just stay the course, showcase your young dudes and see what happens. If you can nab one of the 2018 max FA's (George, Cousins and Westbrook) even better, but it's not really a necessity at this point. Ultimately my whole goal this year is "how can I get my young guys as much experience as possible while still losing as often as possible?" This whole "Brandon Ingram at point guard" thing is a nice start.

Mave1002
01-25-2017, 04:18 AM
The Sixers have the best player, the Wolves have the most valuable overall assets, the Lakers have the most league wide respect and most flexible future. I don't think any is being run optimally (Lakers are the closest honestly). Just for fun here's what I'd do with each:

If I were running the Wolves I'd be preparing to trade Wiggins either at the deadline or at the draft so I could use my two DPE's on Towns and LaVine and push back the extension clock on the Wiggins asset (I'd be looking to trade him for multiple high draft picks/young players). I absolutely hate his attitude. Try on defense man, you're supposed to be a star player. I also don't like forwards who can't shoot (though I'll make exceptions for great defenders or guys who bring other things to the table, which Wiggins really doesn't). He just screams future high-end Rudy Gay to me. See if you can nab both Brooklyn picks from Boston. See if you can get Winslow and their 2017 pick from Miami. Deals like that. Someone would bite.

If I were running the Sixers I'd go to teams with older guards and offer Okafor. The Spurs with Tony Parker are my dream example (if they want to chase George Hill next summer and need the cap space), Wade if he'd be willing to go there (obviously you'd have to max him out or come close to it, at least on a short term deal), at least sniff around Lowry this summer as an FA (he's from Philly after all), guys who can be starters now and eventually fall into a bench role but really set the example in the locker room for Embiid, Simmons and the young guys. Keep Noel as a long term backup (honestly I see no reason why he, Saric, Simmons and Embiid can't coexist at least in the short term. Saric can play some 3, Embiid is never gonna be a 38 minutes per game guy, Simmons probably shouldn't be at first, let this thing play out). Use their pick(s) on guards (Malik Monk is the one I'm really eyeing because they need shooting, but obviously you don't pass on Fultz or Ball if you have the chance for one). Just keep bringing in the young guys and find some veteran leadership. Frankly I think by next season they should have more than enough in the way of young players and would see diminishing returns if they tried to tank again. There just aren't enough minutes to go around for all of those lottery guys.

If I'm the Lakers, I'm tanking this year, trying to get one last blue chip young guy. It doesn't even have to be a guy from this year's class. Sniff around the trade market. Maybe you can Indiana to give up Myles Turner for a top-3 pick. They need a big guy anyway. Make that kind of offer to Detroit (Drummond), and hell, if you're so inclined, maybe OKC (Steven Adams). If there isn't anything immediately appealing on the table, just grab the BPA and give them a year to see who should stay and who should go. You could do worse than having Fultz and D'Angelo Russell learning to coexist. Both can shoot enough to make that work. In any case, just stay the course, showcase your young dudes and see what happens. If you can nab one of the 2018 max FA's (George, Cousins and Westbrook) even better, but it's not really a necessity at this point. Ultimately my whole goal this year is "how can I get my young guys as much experience as possible while still losing as often as possible?" This whole "Brandon Ingram at point guard" thing is a nice start.

Three things:

1.) Priority would be to ship Lou Williams / Nick Young to contending teams in exchange for late firsts or second rounders, I don't care. Team needs a final wave of young talent off the 2017 draft.

2.) Josh Jackson needs to be a Laker. Period. Protect the top 3 pick.

Mozgov/Zubac (Black)
Randle/LNJ (TRob)
Deng/Ingram
???/Jackson
Russell/Clarkson (Huertas)

3.) ??? = RFA Andre Roberson

Heediot
01-25-2017, 06:46 AM
Health permitting. Sixers. Embiid is legit. I personally think Simmons is going to be a borderline all-star at worse, no bust at all. He had a poor attitude in college, but at 19 (young and immature) and not wanting to be in College I think he has the support system to grow of it. His dad was a pro ball player, and he has the mentor-ship of guys like Lebron (although that didn't work out for Johnny Manziel lol). Saric and Luwawu will be two nice euro role players with an outside chance of being more. They have a lot of picks and cap room.

I think the Wolves have a chance as well. Wiggins is the key, Towns will be fine and be a annual all-star. Wiggins has the tools physically to be an elite perimeter defender, the thing is he lacks that bull-dog mentality that makes you a great wing defender (Leonard, Butler, George, Crowder, T. Allen etc.). Wiggins he lacks the mental side of the game IMO and as a Canadian homer I was expecting much more out of him. Lavine is a nice prospect, but I'm not the biggest fan. Dunn might be fine if he ever develops a jumper, or he may be elfird payton/mudiay. They key for the Wolves is how much IQ and instincts the team develops individually and as a team, it's more mental vs. physical.

Lakers have the history and a bright coach, but I don't trust the current front office so the history might be mute. If things shake up in the FO and better moves are made, they may change my personal opinion. I personally wouldn't bank on the current structure of the organization as a whole.

Giannis94
01-25-2017, 10:13 AM
If the Lakers don't keep their pick, that should toss them outta the conversation IMO

Vinylman
01-25-2017, 10:21 AM
part of me thinks the Lakers ownership is a true mess, and the big market appeal not being what it was, makes a difference now.

That being said, it will take a lot longer than a 3-4 year downturn to believe the freakin' Lakers won't regain contender status soon enough, so I tend to agree with you on this.

It is and it isn't... once Jeannie bites the bullet and gets rid of Jimbaco and Mitch and brings in a qualified FO things will turn around quickly (unless they get unlucky in the draft).

Jeannie is just following her fathers wishes at this point but don't forget there is a significant minority ownership related to AEG that won't put up with management forever.

They will always be the premier team in the LA market... the Clippers are finished in LA after this year anyway as they head back to irrelevance again. Sterling would be laughing his *** all the way to the bank at this point if he didn't have a mental disorder...

Hawkeye15
01-25-2017, 11:08 AM
It is and it isn't... once Jeannie bites the bullet and gets rid of Jimbaco and Mitch and brings in a qualified FO things will turn around quickly (unless they get unlucky in the draft).

Jeannie is just following her fathers wishes at this point but don't forget there is a significant minority ownership related to AEG that won't put up with management forever.

They will always be the premier team in the LA market... the Clippers are finished in LA after this year anyway as they head back to irrelevance again. Sterling would be laughing his *** all the way to the bank at this point if he didn't have a mental disorder...

That is why the second portion of my post said, until they are in the dumps longer than 3-4 years, it's hard for me to believe the most successful sports franchise of the last 30 years will not regain it's prominence.

I get it, the big market isn't what is used to be. But it's still Los Angeles, it's still the Lakers. You almost have to try and **** it up not to have a relevant team as a Lakers front office group.

Vinylman
01-25-2017, 12:41 PM
That is why the second portion of my post said, until they are in the dumps longer than 3-4 years, it's hard for me to believe the most successful sports franchise of the last 30 years will not regain it's prominence.

I get it, the big market isn't what is used to be. But it's still Los Angeles, it's still the Lakers. You almost have to try and **** it up not to have a relevant team as a Lakers front office group.

As a Laker fan it is pretty frustrating but I am good as long as she fires the dynamic dunces this offseason...

Of course we could be seeing the Jim Dolan Mgmt strategy part deux :speechless:

celtNYpatsHeels
01-25-2017, 01:24 PM
I'd rather be the Lakers. They will sign a superstar in free agency because they are LA. That will make them contenders once again.

The wolves would be 2nd on my list. Their young core are all different positions and skill sets and can compliment each other if management chooses to keep them together.

Third would be philly. There are lots of unknowns. Simmons hasn't played yet. They have 3 guys who play the same position. Embiid has an injury history. Noel may walk in the offseason. I'm not a saric fan. But who knows. Maybe they can spin their pick and the lakers pick into a star. Or draft 2 more guys....

Hawkeye15
01-25-2017, 01:40 PM
As a Laker fan it is pretty frustrating but I am good as long as she fires the dynamic dunces this offseason...

Of course we could be seeing the Jim Dolan Mgmt strategy part deux :speechless:

I didn't even think of that...

mrblisterdundee
01-25-2017, 02:29 PM
who cares if they are storied? Whens the last time they signed a major FA? Their young guys are a let down so far outside of Ingram (seems to be coming along) and if you take away Lou and Swaggy they might not even have more than 5 wins right now. They have very few assets too, what are they gonna do if they give the Sixers the 4th pick? Thats gonna be brutal for them.

They've won the second-most championships ó that matters when looking at how they'll do in the future.
How are Julius Randle and D'Angelo Russell letdowns, while Brandon Ingram's the only one coming along nicely? Randle and Russeell are on their second seasons, after enduring Kobe Bryant's farewell tour, season-long tire fire. They've both come along faster than Ingram, who's still a toothpick shooting 29 percent from three. Give a little time for growth.
Losing the first-round pick if it's outside the top 3 will suck, but the Lakers have a foundation moving forward, and a reputation for doing well.

Hawkeye15
01-25-2017, 02:31 PM
They've won nearly half of all championships ó that matters when looking at how they'll do in the future.
How are Julius Randle and D'Angelo Russell letdowns, while Brandon Ingram's the only one coming along nicely? Randle and Russeell are on their second seasons, after enduring Kobe Bryant's farewell tour, season-long tire fire. They've both come along faster than Ingram, who's still a toothpick shooting 29 percent from three. Give a little time for growth.
Losing the first-round pick if it's outside the top 3 will suck, but the Lakers have a foundation moving forward, and a reputation for doing well.

eh


And while it's entirely premature to render a verdict on 2016 No. 2 overall pick Brandon Ingram, who's still 19, the early returns have not been encouraging.

Ingram's hot college shooting (he shot 41.0 percent on 3s in his lone year at Duke) hasn't held up; he's making just 29.7 percent from 3-point range, seventh worst among players with at least 100 attempts, according to Basketball-Reference.com. Worse yet, Ingram is also making less than 40 percent of his 2-point attempts (39.8 percent), which would make him the 25th player in NBA history to pull off that particular double.

The inaccurate shooting has outweighed the promise Ingram has shown as a playmaker and defender. His 2.8 wins below replacement level by my WARP metric are worst in the league, as is his minus-5.4 rating in ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM).

Naturally, that's partially because Ingram has played more than the typical 19-year-old rookie, but it's hard to find players who have started so poorly and become anything more than capable reserves.

TheDish87
01-25-2017, 02:39 PM
I'd rather be the Lakers. They will sign a superstar in free agency because they are LA. That will make them contenders once again.

The wolves would be 2nd on my list. Their young core are all different positions and skill sets and can compliment each other if management chooses to keep them together.

Third would be philly. There are lots of unknowns. Simmons hasn't played yet. They have 3 guys who play the same position. Embiid has an injury history. Noel may walk in the offseason. I'm not a saric fan. But who knows. Maybe they can spin their pick and the lakers pick into a star. Or draft 2 more guys....

what superstar is singing with the worst team in the league?

TheDish87
01-25-2017, 02:42 PM
They've won the second-most championships ó that matters when looking at how they'll do in the future.
How are Julius Randle and D'Angelo Russell letdowns, while Brandon Ingram's the only one coming along nicely? Randle and Russeell are on their second seasons, after enduring Kobe Bryant's farewell tour, season-long tire fire. They've both come along faster than Ingram, who's still a toothpick shooting 29 percent from three. Give a little time for growth.
Losing the first-round pick if it's outside the top 3 will suck, but the Lakers have a foundation moving forward, and a reputation for doing well.

Lakers fans complain about Randle all the time and Russ just isnt that good, sorry but hes not. LAL do not have a foundation moving forward at all, they dont even have a top 5 player out of these 3 teams. No FA cares that they won however many titles years ago and market size has become less and less relevant seeing how no one good has signed with them in a long time.

sixer04fan
01-25-2017, 02:44 PM
They've won the second-most championships ó that matters when looking at how they'll do in the future.

Huh?

TheDish87
01-25-2017, 02:45 PM
eh

Ingram is shooting 40% from 3 this year so far and averaging 11/4/3

Hawkeye15
01-25-2017, 02:51 PM
Ingram is shooting 40% from 3 this year so far and averaging 11/4/3

in what year? The last handful of games? Meh

He has been awful as a rookie.

TheDish87
01-25-2017, 02:56 PM
in what year? The last handful of games? Meh

He has been awful as a rookie.

12 is more than a handful and thats what you wanna see a developing player do, improve as the season goes on. He is seeing more mins and playing better but also stuck on a team with 3 chuckers.

Hawkeye15
01-25-2017, 03:02 PM
12 is more than a handful and thats what you wanna see a developing player do, improve as the season goes on. He is seeing more mins and playing better but also stuck on a team with 3 chuckers.

well, perhaps with some hard work, he can go from horrible, to bad.

Ingram has not been good. At all. Yes, he is 19. Plenty of room to grow. But you claimed he is coming along nicely. No, he is not. He has been garbage in his very young career.

TheDish87
01-25-2017, 03:10 PM
lol ok. so a bad first two months means a good month cant be had? His defense doesnt count either?

Chronz
01-25-2017, 06:03 PM
lol ok. so a bad first two months means a good month cant be had? His defense doesnt count either?
If by good you mean not dumpster fire bad. Then sure but that's abit worrisome for the number 2 pick. He's19 so you gotta wait but guys like Kobe and Tmac were killing it at younger age.

Just looked it up. He's at like 30mpg this month with a 106 o rtg. With his scoring rate that seems abit below average. Especially since he gives you nothing on the boards.

He's not even as bad as Wiggins was

mrblisterdundee
01-25-2017, 06:14 PM
Lakers fans complain about Randle all the time and Russ just isnt that good, sorry but hes not. LAL do not have a foundation moving forward at all, they dont even have a top 5 player out of these 3 teams. No FA cares that they won however many titles years ago and market size has become less and less relevant seeing how no one good has signed with them in a long time.

I'll say it again: Russell and Randle are on their second years. Give them some time to grow.
Randle averaged a double-double as a rookie on a usage rate barely above 20 percent. He is already a nightly double-double threat at 22 years old, while averaging four assists as one of the better-passing big men in the NBA.
Russell, only 20, has progressed every bit as fast as Kobe Bryant did. He is one of only 18 rookies who have ever scored at least 20 points per 100 possessions with an assist percentage of more than 20. He's the kind of score-first point guard coveted in the modern NBA, and he projects as a better shooter than Bryant.
The Los Angeles market is still incredibly important. That's why the city just stole yet another pro sports team (The Chargers) from San Diego, while taking in The Rams from St. Louis. I wasn't saying the Lakers' history would immediately make any free agent want to sign there. But the organization's proven history makes it more likely than not that they will eventually land big free agents, when they get further out of the rebuild.

Hawkeye15
01-25-2017, 06:19 PM
lol ok. so a bad first two months means a good month cant be had? His defense doesnt count either?

dude he has been terrible. Youth is his only friend at this point in time.

Hawkeye15
01-25-2017, 06:21 PM
If by good you mean not dumpster fire bad. Then sure but that's abit worrisome for the number 2 pick. He's19 so you gotta wait but guys like Kobe and Tmac were killing it at younger age.

Just looked it up. He's at like 30mpg this month with a 106 o rtg. With his scoring rate that seems abit below average. Especially since he gives you nothing on the boards.

He's not even as bad as Wiggins was

as a rookie overall? Eh, don't agree.

And that is coming from someone who is ready to trade Wiggins before paying him. He hasn't progressed at all really. Still a chucker supreme who offers nothing else.

More-Than-Most
01-25-2017, 06:32 PM
The thing is... I think wiggins was more of a ready player where is ingram is extremely raw. I think ingram will be fine... I wouldnt give up on russ yet either though he is aggravating the **** out of me.

ewing
01-25-2017, 10:43 PM
dude he has been terrible. Youth is his only friend at this point in time.

really??? with all the money I'd be paying to not be my friend. Like **** me and leave :)

ewing
01-25-2017, 10:46 PM
The thing is... I think wiggins was more of a ready player where is ingram is extremely raw. I think ingram will be fine... I wouldnt give up on russ yet either though he is aggravating the **** out of me.

I agree. I think Ingram's got game. I haven't really watched LA but dude has length and a good skill set. His range looked like it needed to be improved on, his handle needed tightening, and of course he is slight as hell but dude look like he had the tools to me. He has to put in some work but that how most kids drafted these days are. If he puts it in I see a real good pro

Quinnsanity
01-26-2017, 04:36 AM
Shouldn't we have learned by now not to judge guards too early on? I mean the list is practically endless. Mike Conley got $8 million per year on his second contract and we all thought that was ludicrous. Kyle Lowry didn't make an All Star team until his ninth year. Isaiah wasn't even universally seen as a starter until he got to Boston. Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash, the list goes on and on and on and on. To suggest that we know one or the other what kind of player D'Angelo Russell is going to be 80 starts into his career (most of them with Byron goddamn Scott as his coach) is just ludicrous. Guys like Dwyane Wade or Chris Paul who are superstars from the start are extremely rare. Most guards need a lot of time and seasoning. Russell could be James Harden or he could be Lou Williams. We won't know for quite some time.

TheDish87
01-26-2017, 08:59 AM
If by good you mean not dumpster fire bad. Then sure but that's abit worrisome for the number 2 pick. He's19 so you gotta wait but guys like Kobe and Tmac were killing it at younger age.

Just looked it up. He's at like 30mpg this month with a 106 o rtg. With his scoring rate that seems abit below average. Especially since he gives you nothing on the boards.

He's not even as bad as Wiggins was

i never once said he was good this year lol all i said was he is starting to come along i.e having a solid month, his best month. Saying this while keeping in mind he plays for a **** team with 3 guys who are gunners and dont move the ball.

Vinylman
01-26-2017, 09:33 AM
i never once said he was good this year lol all i said was he is starting to come along i.e having a solid month, his best month. Saying this while keeping in mind he plays for a **** team with 3 guys who are gunners and dont move the ball.

3? you must just mean 3 guys when he is on the floor because the Lakers have more than 3 chuckers LOL

Ingram will be fine... I am actually surprised he isn't more worn down because of his slight build... If the Lakers keep their pick they need to package it with Russell or Randle and get an established all star...

the only untouchables on that roster as of right now are Ingram, nance, and Zubac...

Randle and Russell are mental cases that need to leave before they get paid.

Jets012
01-26-2017, 03:35 PM
Ehhh.

I was higher on the T-Wolves core when I thought Wiggins would turn into something. The only problem is, he hasn't. I was expecting his playmaking to go up as he developed as a player, but that really hasn't. He's really not the type of player I would build around. I think the Wolves still have a lot of future holes. I like the coach a lot. I think KAT is going to be a top 5 player for years to come and I do like Dieng as a starting center and LaVine as a 6th man. Besides that, they need work. They need a true PG that could come in and run the offense (someone like George Hill would have been amazing for them). Teague as well this off-season. And they really need unselfish, off-ball players. Too much hero-ball going on up there. They need some pure shooting 3 and D wings, that can play off the ball. Hard to find though.

I'd still probably take Minny because I really do think there's still a sizable gap between KAT and Embiid. And this is coming from someone who loves Embiid, but it's close because the 6ers do have better assets.

LeonFSU
01-26-2017, 06:51 PM
I think the 76ers have some potential with their players and picks. But that's in a vacuum. Its hard for me to not be nervous about the personnel decisions they end up making since Bryan Colangelo is the one making those decisions.

More-Than-Most
01-26-2017, 07:18 PM
I think the 76ers have some potential with their players and picks. But that's in a vacuum. Its hard for me to not be nervous about the personnel decisions they end up making since Bryan Colangelo is the one making those decisions.

most of us are already preparing our ***** for when he ships out oka/saric/lakers pick and our pick plus tlc and a future pick for mccullom

tp13baby
01-26-2017, 08:34 PM
Ehhh.

I was higher on the T-Wolves core when I thought Wiggins would turn into something. The only problem is, he hasn't. I was expecting his playmaking to go up as he developed as a player, but that really hasn't. He's really not the type of player I would build around. I think the Wolves still have a lot of future holes. I like the coach a lot. I think KAT is going to be a top 5 player for years to come and I do like Dieng as a starting center and LaVine as a 6th man. Besides that, they need work. They need a true PG that could come in and run the offense (someone like George Hill would have been amazing for them). Teague as well this off-season. And they really need unselfish, off-ball players. Too much hero-ball going on up there. They need some pure shooting 3 and D wings, that can play off the ball. Hard to find though.

I'd still probably take Minny because I really do think there's still a sizable gap between KAT and Embiid. And this is coming from someone who loves Embiid, but it's close because the 6ers do have better assets.

Wiggins has a lot of improvement to make on the defensive side and playmaking. Other than their big 3 there isn't any shooters.

Kris Dunn is going through struggles as a rookie, but he is already one of the better defensive PG's in the league. I think he will be fine.

They need a better supporting cast which includes 3 and D guys and a playmaker.

Jamiecballer
01-26-2017, 09:07 PM
Lakers being included here is a joke. If you follow basketball there are 2 choices here, not 3, and I will take philly. The only real downside is the clown in charge.
Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

HandsOnTheWheel
01-27-2017, 03:12 AM
Lakers. Can't ignore the FA appeal + plenty of tradable assets. It's LA man c'mon.

TheDish87
01-27-2017, 09:11 AM
lol what tradeable assets? it still cracks me up people think market matters anymore, look at where the best 2 teams in the league play, hell best 3...

Giannis94
01-27-2017, 11:09 AM
lol what tradeable assets? it still cracks me up people think market matters anymore, look at where the best 2 teams in the league play, hell best 3...

The Lakers drop off the list if they lose their pick.

HandsOnTheWheel
01-27-2017, 01:19 PM
So LA has no FA appeal anymore? Ok buddy!

TheDish87
01-27-2017, 01:42 PM
who is the last all star they signed?

Synyster89
01-27-2017, 01:56 PM
So LA has no FA appeal anymore? Ok buddy!

How did that "FA appeal" work out for them last off-season? Unless you consider Mozgov and Deng (who they had to overpay) big gets? LA still has appeal. However, it is drastically less than what it used to be.

Vinylman
01-27-2017, 02:55 PM
To answer the question with my own context added....

As an owner I would always want to be the Lakers... they are worth more than Philly and Minny combined.

Whose future looks better right now... Philly....

when this same question was asked a year ago the majority said Minnie

**** in the NBA changes quickly... people need to realize that this is a star league and until some of these young guys turn into stars all this talk is nothing more than exactly that... TALK

Giannis94
01-27-2017, 02:57 PM
If we're being completely honest, LAL doesn't belong with Philly or Minny in this conversation

Chronz
01-27-2017, 06:03 PM
as a rookie overall? Eh, don't agree.

And that is coming from someone who is ready to trade Wiggins before paying him. He hasn't progressed at all really. Still a chucker supreme who offers nothing else.

I meant to say that the other way around. My fault

Hawkeye15
01-27-2017, 06:05 PM
I meant to say that the other way around. My fault

no worries.

That being said, Wiggins is straight up pissing me off at this point.

Chronz
01-27-2017, 06:07 PM
i never once said he was good this year lol all i said was he is starting to come along i.e having a solid month, his best month. Saying this while keeping in mind he plays for a **** team with 3 guys who are gunners and dont move the ball.

Yeah i remember how people were blaming Kobe for stunting the growth of the prospects but now it's those youngsters holding back ingram. Lakers fans have come full circle in less than a year it seems.

Short story, ingram is holding himself back more than his teammates. It's fine for now but it's still been apoor rookie season.

More-Than-Most
01-27-2017, 08:14 PM
So LA has no FA appeal anymore? Ok buddy!

They honestly dont... not with that tax out there. The tax kills them.. Why would players already take less to go there on top of being taxed even more... when their team has very few assets and looks like the worst in basketball? The tax really isnt fair and that out weighs the media market... Now if you are a top 5 player going there is ideal to a point but top 5 players are now looking to win rings because winning rings gets you just as noticed as being in a superstardom market... the knicks/lakers are in a bad situation.. they have very few assets and cant out spend all other teams while being in the 2 markets that tax the **** out of new players.... so where is the appeal exactly?

More-Than-Most
01-27-2017, 08:16 PM
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/state-taxes-nba-free-agency/#z5ZvVi4Fp24TkqqK.97

sorry but this matters.

For example, Carmelo Anthony is a New York City resident. He will disburse a combined New York state and New York City tax rate of 12.69 percent on his earnings playing professional basketball for the Knicks. With his current contract worth $124 million, thatís over $15.7 million in NY/NYC taxes he will pay over the life of his contract assuming he continues to live in New York City.


Again if you are a top 5-10 player you can off set this with endorsements but why would player take that much less and go to much worse teams? It a different NBA where every team has money and the thunder and raptors are 2 of the most well known teams in the sport... location only matters if you want the party life and then places like Miami and so on step up who have the party life but not the bad taxes... NY and LA cant rely on location as their driving force anymore.

Miltstar
01-28-2017, 09:03 AM
I think they are all pretty similiar and it will come down to player development. IMO the sixers are in the best spot cuz Embiid and Simmons are the best 2 players, but they still need a pg. If they can poach Lowry in the offseason I could see them being #1 in the East next year fairly easily

TheDish87
01-28-2017, 11:22 AM
Yeah i remember how people were blaming Kobe for stunting the growth of the prospects but now it's those youngsters holding back ingram. Lakers fans have come full circle in less than a year it seems.

Short story, ingram is holding himself back more than his teammates. It's fine for now but it's still been apoor rookie season.

of course after i say he is having a nice month he proceeds to go 0-10 over his next 2 games lol

Vinylman
01-30-2017, 08:54 AM
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/state-taxes-nba-free-agency/#z5ZvVi4Fp24TkqqK.97

sorry but this matters.

For example, Carmelo Anthony is a New York City resident. He will disburse a combined New York state and New York City tax rate of 12.69 percent on his earnings playing professional basketball for the Knicks. With his current contract worth $124 million, thatís over $15.7 million in NY/NYC taxes he will pay over the life of his contract assuming he continues to live in New York City.


Again if you are a top 5-10 player you can off set this with endorsements but why would player take that much less and go to much worse teams? It a different NBA where every team has money and the thunder and raptors are 2 of the most well known teams in the sport... location only matters if you want the party life and then places like Miami and so on step up who have the party life but not the bad taxes... NY and LA cant rely on location as their driving force anymore.

except that calculation is totally incorrect ... you pay taxes based upon where the games are played...

Assuming the locale's for the away games don't really change his tax situation (basic agent assumption). Then his additional burden in NY vs a best case scenario (No tax state like Florida) is about $7.8 million...

Of course the difference is smaller if he plays for a team with a state income tax (which is the vast majority of states).