PDA

View Full Version : Rank the "Star" PG's in the East



Giannis94
01-19-2017, 10:35 AM
The East has a PG predicament- in the sense that you could almost slot the top PG's in any order and not be called names. The West has a pretty clear cut top 3 with Harden, Curry, Westy all being super-stars. The East appears to have 5 "Stars".

Sorry MTM, Simmons is not eligible.

In no order:

Kyrie
Giannis
IT
Lowry

The next 2:
Wall
Walker
?

How do you rank them?

BKLYNpigeon
01-19-2017, 10:57 AM
You guys always make these Popularity Rankings up and never factor in DEFENSE.

Folks, The NBA Game is played 50% on Offense and 50% on Defense. Even though you don't pay close attention to it, It makes up half of your game on the floor.


Giannis
Lowery
Wall
Kyrie
IT
Kemba

ewing
01-19-2017, 11:42 AM
You guys always make these Popularity Rankings up and never factor in DEFENSE.

Folks, The NBA Game is played 50% on Offense and 50% on Defense. Even though you don't pay close attention to it, It makes up half of your game on the floor.


Giannis
Lowery
Wall
Kyrie
IT
Kemba


No it isn't

archdevil84
01-19-2017, 12:17 PM
wheres lebron?

cmellofan15
01-19-2017, 12:17 PM
yeah, lets not be dense here. a point guards bad defense can EASILY be covered up and their defense will not be a detriment in the win-loss column.

ie: Giannis being arguably the best defender but having the least amount of wins on the list.

but why is Giannis even on this list? he's not a point guard. he plays a majority of minutes with Delly who is a point guard. if we put him on this list then we might as well put LeBron on here too. but that probably wouldn't fit the troll's agenda...

ewing
01-19-2017, 12:40 PM
yeah, lets not be dense here. a point guards bad defense can EASILY be covered up and their defense will not be a detriment in the win-loss column.

ie: Giannis being arguably the best defender but having the least amount of wins on the list.

but why is Giannis even on this list? he's not a point guard. he plays a majority of minutes with Delly who is a point guard. if we put him on this list then we might as well put LeBron on here too. but that probably wouldn't fit the troll's agenda...

You mean Lindsey Hunter wasn't as good as Steve Nash?

bartron_44
01-19-2017, 01:07 PM
I think there is an argument to be made for best PG in the East for:

Giannis
Lowry
Wall

ranking them is pretty much impossible.

Vee-Rex
01-19-2017, 01:19 PM
You guys always make these Popularity Rankings up and never factor in DEFENSE.

Folks, The NBA Game is played 50% on Offense and 50% on Defense. Even though you don't pay close attention to it, It makes up half of your game on the floor.


Giannis
Lowery
Wall
Kyrie
IT
Kemba

Individual defense is half of the game, but it doesn't weigh quite as heavy as individual offense. The ultimate play in basketball is the bucket. Scoring is the best play on offense. Causing a live-ball turnover is the ultimate/best play on defense, but that doesn't necessarily convert to points.

You can be the best defender in history and still get lit up for 40 points by a sub-par offensive player if he's hot. So while individual defense is critical and often undervalued, you cannot weigh it equally with individual offense.

There is a reason why every GM and sane person on the planet would take Damian Lillard or Isaiah Thomas or Kyrie Irving over Ricky Rubio.

Giannis94
01-19-2017, 01:25 PM
wheres lebron?
I mean we cak include him but if I post a EC SG, SF,PF or C thread I am including Giannis in every single one if you wanna play that way

Jets012
01-19-2017, 01:51 PM
Not including Giannis. He isn't a PG.

Lowry
Walker
Wall
IT
Irving

Lowry I think is clearly the best. Over the last three to four years he's been the best. Now he's not nearly as flashy as the others so he doesn't get the praise the others might, but he's better.

IT's had the second best year. I'm fine with ranking him lower than the rest because this has really only been a 38 game stretch at this high of a level. One of the best offensive players in the league, but piss poor defensively. He makes Kyrie look good.

Wall and Walker are almost identical. I'll take Kemba because he's a fantastic shooter and easier to build around, but can't go wrong with either.

I think Kyrie is last which will obviously upset some people. I just don't think he's as impactful as the other guys. I know he had a clutch postseason last year and made some big shots and he deserves credit for that, but he also shouldn't get bumped up above the other guys because he plays with LeBron and gets those opportunities.

Giannis94
01-19-2017, 01:54 PM
Not including Giannis. He isn't a PG.

Lowry
Walker
Wall
IT
Irving

Lowry I think is clearly the best. Over the last three to four years he's been the best. Now he's not nearly as flashy as the others so he doesn't get the praise the others might, but he's better.

IT's had the second best year. I'm fine with ranking him lower than the rest because this has really only been a 38 game stretch at this high of a level. One of the best offensive players in the league, but piss poor defensively. He makes Kyrie look good.

Wall and Walker are almost identical. I'll take Kemba because he's a fantastic shooter and easier to build around, but can't go wrong with either.

I think Kyrie is last which will obviously upset some people. I just don't think he's as impactful as the other guys. I know he had a clutch postseason last year and made some big shots and he deserves credit for that, but he also shouldn't get bumped up above the other guys because he plays with LeBron and gets those opportunities.

Giannis is a pg.

ewing
01-19-2017, 01:58 PM
I'm not calling Giannis a PG yet. I'll go:

Lowery
IT/Kyrie



Wall/Kemba

If you force to pick bt IT and Kyrie without knowing teammates I'll take Kyrie. If you forced me b/t Wall and Kemba i think I take Wall

Vee-Rex
01-19-2017, 02:05 PM
Here's my rough list, and I'm not counting Giannis because he's not a point guard. He just handles the ball a lot.

1. Lowry
2. Isaiah Thomas/John Wall
3. John Wall/Isaiah Thomas
4. Kemba Walker
5. Kyrie Irving

Kyle Lowry - at this point there's nothing to suggest that Kyle Lowry isn't the best PG in the East. He's having a career year and is a top 15 player easily. His defense took a dive but so have many others. Guys are scoring so well and Toronto's defense hasn't been nearly as good as it has in the past. What's catapulting Lowry above everyone else is his efficiency. His assist totals (7.1 per game) don't reflect the kind of play-making/general he has been for Toronto's incredible offense. My only concern/gripe is that he absolutely HAS to find a way to perform well in the playoffs. I don't care if it's his back or his elbow or his knee or a paper cut, dude needs to stop underperforming in the playoffs or Toronto will treadmill.

Isaiah Thomas - I think IT is kinda interchangeable with Wall here, but I like what he's doing on the Celtics and he has been far more consistent on the offensive side of the ball than Wall has. You can probably call him the best scoring point guard in the East right now. However, IT has terrible defense, some of it due to his size, but also because he has been lazy as crap on that end. He also needs to improve his playoff performances.

John Wall - Best defender and play-maker of this list, and probably the most underrated on this list as well. I like him as #2 honestly, but I wholly respect what IT has been doing. Wall needs better consistency when scoring the ball however, and tends to play a bit too reckless at times which results in turnovers. It would be nice if he was a bit more of a threat from 3-point range, but overall he's definitely well-rounded. Needs to improve playoff performances.

Kemba Walker - Virtually the same player as Kyrie Irving this season, just a tiny bit more efficient and a bit better defense. Man-to-man he does well, but team defense is pretty bad. His shot selection can be pretty bad sometimes but he's the engine of the Hornets, so there's that. He doesn't draw fouls as well as Lowry/Thomas/Wall so that could improve. Despite that, he's capable of scoring from all over the court. His PnR offense is pretty solid and he can take over a game. He sucked pretty badly in last year's playoffs, so we'll see if that can change.

Kyrie Irving - Obviously my favorite and despite playing fairly well, other guys are just outperforming him. His defense leaves a lot to be desired, but he shouldn't be criticized for it any more than Lillard and Thomas are (both worse defenders). Similar to his passing/play-making, he ranks better than people give him credit for. The problem is his vision - while he's capable of play-making, more often than not he makes the wrong decision on what should be obvious plays. His PnR on both sides of the floor is pretty poor. His playoffs for two years straight have been great though, so if that continues he'll always have his name mentioned in these kind of topics. The fact that he's the 2nd banana compared to everyone else should always be a factor, though.

Vee-Rex
01-19-2017, 02:10 PM
Giannis is a pg.

No he isn't.

mightybosstone
01-19-2017, 02:19 PM
I love Giannis, but he should not be in this conversation. Point forward? OK. But in no way, shape or form is this guy a point guard. If Giannis is considered a point guard for this conversation, then so should Lebron. And then this list quickly becomes him and then everybody else much further down. If I'm ranking them based on a combination of this season's production and their productivity up to this point, I'm thinking something like this:

1. Kyle Lowry
2. Kyrie Irving
3. Isaiah Thomas
4. John Wall
5. Kemba Walker

Lowry is the most complete player in the group on both ends of the floor and has proven himself year-in and year-out. Irving is the best pure scorer of the group and closer with Thomas right behind him in both categories. But despite Thomas' stellar season this year, I have a hard time ranking him ahead of Lowry or Irving because of the still somewhat limited sample size. But those three guys are clearly the top three for me.

Wall is having a career season, but I still think the guy is overrated because he's still not a particularly efficient offensive basketball player. If he ever develops a competent 3-point shot, he could be the best PG in the East. But until that happens, I just can't justify him over those three other guys, who also have the benefit of playing for better basketball teams. Walker is also having a career year, but he might be the worst point guard in this group from a playmaking sense, and both he and the Hornets have fallen off quit a bit after their hot start.

mightybosstone
01-19-2017, 02:21 PM
Giannis is a pg.
Unless we're going to start calling Lebron a PG, then Giannis is most definitely not a PG. And if we DID call Lebron a PG, he'd be far, far ahead of Giannis on this list.

No he isn't.
:hi5:

aman_13
01-19-2017, 02:38 PM
I agree that Lowry has to show up in the playoffs. As Tre was saying in another thread, his rep has taken a bit of a hit nationally because of his poor playoff showing. He cannot struggle like he did last yr.

Giannis94
01-19-2017, 03:41 PM
Unless we're going to start calling Lebron a PG, then Giannis is most definitely not a PG. And if we DID call Lebron a PG, he'd be far, far ahead of Giannis on this list.

:hi5:

Debateable.

Jets012
01-19-2017, 04:44 PM
Debateable.

Debatable*

Come on BrewerBoy, that's a mistake a boy makes.

mightybosstone
01-19-2017, 05:01 PM
Debateable.

It's really, really not. There's not an NBA analyst, GM, player or coach on the planet that would suggest Giannis is a better player than Lebron. To suggest otherwise is borderline lunacy. Take off the homer glasses, chief. ;)

europagnpilgrim
01-19-2017, 05:07 PM
You guys always make these Popularity Rankings up and never factor in DEFENSE.

Folks, The NBA Game is played 50% on Offense and 50% on Defense. Even though you don't pay close attention to it, It makes up half of your game on the floor.


Giannis
Lowery
Wall
Kyrie
IT
Kemba

of course the basic split is 50/50 but you also have to factor in the load usage from each side, like Kawhi could lock in way more on defense and less on offense when he first got to the Spurs, Jordan had to score when he first came to Bulls and played decent defense until Pippen got there and he locked in a little bit more but scoring was his forte

so it can be 70/30 or 80/20 depending on the situation, everybody cant be The Dipper and get 50ppg and 20bpg at the same time, now that's what I call a 50/50 split

PhillyFaninLA
01-19-2017, 05:43 PM
Giannis is a pg.

Just because you sometimes play a position doesn't make you that position. He is a SF that sometimes plays the point.

You as a Bucks fan should know that. You as a basketball fan should know that you don't rank a player at a position they sometimes play.

PhillyFaninLA
01-19-2017, 05:44 PM
No he isn't.

Yeah, hell of a player, but not a point guard

Hawkeye15
01-19-2017, 05:50 PM
Lowry
Thomas
Walker
Wall
Irving

after that, not really worth digging into, but that is the order for me this year, top 5 out east.