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View Full Version : Should Orlando end the bully ball experiment? How would you fix their rotations?



Chronz
01-13-2017, 05:51 PM
Was watching the Clips game last night and couldn't help but wonder if they should just drop this whole "we're going to beat up the league with size" shtick, they actually played the Clips pretty good with their smaller lineup. To their credit, it does appear as they realize going big hasn't worked out well.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-orlando-magic-news-0113-story.html


Vogel also said he probably will employ more small-ball lineups and rely less often on lineups that feature two big men playing simultaneously.

“We looked at the other lineup, with Biz and Serge [Ibaka] playing together and Vooch bringing us a spark off the bench, and there were some good things,” Vogel said. “But we’re still not playing at a high-enough level. So we’re going to flip it back with Vooch in the starting lineup and Biz coming off the bench.




Their spacing is such a mess that they've benched their best prospect at the 1 and when they attempt to go small its with the likes of Jeff Green. I didn't like the idea of Aaron Gordan as a full-time 3 but hes getting more and more comfortable there, a great development but one I hope is still with the bigger picture of making him a true 4.



Zach Lowe had this to say on the team recently:


Frank Vogel may have mercy-killed this during Orlando's loss against the Clippers on Wednesday night. Let's hope so. Opponents have outscored the Magic by almost six points per 100 possessions when Bismack Biyombo and Vucevic share the floor, and the double-barreled center setup looks positively retrograde.

Early in the season, Vogel had Biyombo defending power forwards so that Vucevic could hang back against opposing centers. That made intuitive sense, since Biyombo is much faster than Vooch. (Don't call him Vucci Mane.) But that gambit also dragged Biyombo away from the rim, wasting his shot-blocking, and Biyombo didn't prove as adept as expected switching onto smaller players.

Vogel has since flipped roles, and assigned Vucevic to chase opposing forwards. That has gone as badly as you'd expect. The Magic need a roster readjustment, and I'd expect at least a slight one at the trade deadline.



So Vucevic and Bismack just cant function together, but Vogel isn't impressed with the Congo Brothers. How do you fix their situation? Who would you start for them?

smith&wesson
01-13-2017, 06:39 PM
They obviosly need to get rid of that log jam. That trade for Ibaka was a head scratcher..And then sighning Biz was even more strange. Tross would be perfect for the Magic

Cracka2HI!
01-13-2017, 06:51 PM
I got some **** on here when I said Orlando had one of the worst off-seasons. One trade I thought up for them was Ibaka for Igudala. But I mean why give up on Oladipo for an Igudala rental? None of their signings made sense and they were all huge overpays. Especially after trading for Ibaka.

LeonFSU
01-13-2017, 07:22 PM
Right now, Payton, Fournier, Gordon, Ibaka, and Vucevic are their best players and should probably start. But I don't know how far that will get them. If they could trade Biyombo that would be ideal, but I can't see anyone trading for him.

Chronz
01-13-2017, 10:14 PM
They obviosly need to get rid of that log jam. That trade for Ibaka was a head scratcher..And then sighning Biz was even more strange. Tross would be perfect for the Magic

I tried to make sense of the moves. Ibaka sounds like THE perfect compliment to Vuce but why find the perfect compliment for a flawed construct? Ibaka spaces the floor but his shot blocking is minimized away from the rim. Is Ibaka really a center in today's game?
So they started the Congo bros but Biyombo is a special level of bad offensively that will only work if you have an explosive backcourt to offset his lack of offense(like Toronto did). Orlando starts a non shooter at the 1 and lost one of their most explosive guards to get Ibaka. Its just a weird roster where many duos fit together but they don't compliment the entire group. They are in desperate need of a direction cuz their rebuild has failed imo. Which is funny cuz many considered them winners of the Dwight jettison and posters like dlee LOVED their future prospects. them drafting guys that filled a positional need doesn't change that they settled on a flawed foundation

Chronz
01-13-2017, 10:19 PM
Right now, Payton, Fournier, Gordon, Ibaka, and Vucevic are their best players and should probably start. But I don't know how far that will get them. If they could trade Biyombo that would be ideal, but I can't see anyone trading for him.
Agreed it's just the timing doesn't align. By the time Peyton becomes anything(if at all) Ibaka will be old. Fournier has stagnated as a player but he's still young. If I were them i would sacrifice depth for a true 3. Then they put AG at the 4 with whatever center they have left.

mrblisterdundee
01-14-2017, 12:01 AM
Gordon's better off playing power forward. If Orlando wants to max Ibaka, they should play him at center. I'd start Ibaka, Gordon, Hezonja, Fournier and Payton. You've got a fast, athletic lineup with three decent shooters, and three decent defenders.
Gordon can overwhelm other power forwards with his speed and strength. If he hits some threes at power forward, that's a plus. But don't depend on his jumper until it's proven.

Quinnsanity
01-14-2017, 01:26 PM
They have absolutely no path towards a star player. They're just stuck in purgatory. I know there are people on here who find tanking distasteful, but if there's any team in the league that should just say "**** it, we're not going anywhere as is," it's Orlando.

warfelg
01-14-2017, 01:49 PM
They have absolutely no path towards a star player. They're just stuck in purgatory. I know there are people on here who find tanking distasteful, but if there's any team in the league that should just say "**** it, we're not going anywhere as is," it's Orlando.

But wait this is how you build the right way!!!

But as someone else said, Gordon at the 3 isn't working. The Magic need to find a way to sell off everything but Fournier and Gordon and retool around them.

Quinnsanity
01-14-2017, 02:41 PM
But wait this is how you build the right way!!!

But as someone else said, Gordon at the 3 isn't working. The Magic need to find a way to sell off everything but Fournier and Gordon and retool around them.

This is such a clear case of a GM trying to keep his job rather than doing what's best for the franchise. Hennigan will never tank because it would mean admitting he's done a ****** job. There are a few other cases like this throughout the league (cough Washington cough), but none this egregious.

mia1619
01-14-2017, 02:55 PM
They are a great matchup trade partner for the heat and ive been saying so since the beginning of the year. Dragic and james johnson could help them a lot. The heat would want their first rounder and hopefully gordon, or maybe just gordon, but i doubt they'd be able to get that. I wanted the heat in the beginning of the year to trade Dragic for Ibaka and see if theyd be willing to give him up because of the possibility of him not re-signing with him at the end of the year.

Dragic and James johnson for Gordon and Jeff green.
or Dragic and James Johnson for Jeff Green, Payton, Hezonja, and their first.

These teams match up really well. Dragic would fit in very well with them. Payton cant be a starter with his lack of shot, at least not on this team as currently constructed.

But what i would actually do if i were the magic GM and wasnt just trying to save my job is trade vucevic, move Ibaka to C and Gordon to PF, try to re-sign Ibaka in the offseason, and find a PG/SF in the offseason.

Draft Pick/Payton
Fournier/Hezonja
Draft Pick
Gordon
Ibaka

6th man- Biyombo. That's not a great core, but Vucevic isnt good and never really has been, and this lineup with Gordon at the 3 is just ignoring how basketball is operating this day and age.

theducksmuggler
01-14-2017, 03:07 PM
I would trade all three big men if I could personally and see if they can get some draft picks back and big man they arent winning anytime soon, Id also look to trade Payton pretty much anyone but Gordon and Fournier and see what you can get try again in the upcoming draft/free agency

valade16
01-14-2017, 03:50 PM
They have absolutely no path towards a star player. They're just stuck in purgatory. I know there are people on here who find tanking distasteful, but if there's any team in the league that should just say "**** it, we're not going anywhere as is," it's Orlando.

Last year they had the 11th pick. The 3 years before that:

Herzonja 5th
Gordon 4th
Oladipo 2nd

Newsflash: Orlando did tank after Dwight. The tank just didn't work. Tanks aren't a guarantee.

5ass
01-14-2017, 03:53 PM
Vogel has been up and down. Biyombo has been mediocre defensively which isn't working when he's trash offensively. Boyombo and Ibaka combo hasn't been good. Both are overrated defensively. Not sure Biyombo is untradeable like some are suggesting. Consider the contracts signed by Noah, Hill, Mahimni, Mozgov, ect. This offseason. I'd still take Biyombo over most of them.



Gordon at the three is fine. He's averaging like 16-6-3 in the past month. He only just turned 21 a few months ago. Long term he can be a star SF IMO. He's developing his perimeter skills. He'll be able to play both forward positions, but I like him at SF defensively. With that in my mind, I think Ibaka is the perfect PF to compliment him, and I also don't think the Magic overpaid for him. He's better than Oladipo.


Vucevic has been reinserted into the starting line up. Dropped 30-10-4 yesterday. Most magic fans expected Vucevic to start.

Payton is playing well for a PG his age, and if they target Dragic they can bring him off the bench or start him but he'll probably play close to 30 mpg either way.


All that said, they can still make the play offs. I agree they need to play more small ball. I think most Magic fans understood that Vucevic and Biyombo weren't going to stay on the team together for long. They knew the Magic aren't a finished product. They need to use some of their assets to upgrade from Jeff Green and DJ. They need to trade one of the big men, and I'm not sure I'm ready for them to move on from Vucevic.

5ass
01-14-2017, 03:57 PM
But wait this is how you build the right way!!!

But as someone else said, Gordon at the 3 isn't working. The Magic need to find a way to sell off everything but Fournier and Gordon and retool around them.

Hennigan's only big mistake was drafting Mario over Myles Turner IMO. If they got Turner, things would've been very different. Not sure what to make of Mario yet, but I'm not hopeful.

hugepatsfan
01-14-2017, 07:40 PM
Last year they had the 11th pick. The 3 years before that:

Herzonja 5th
Gordon 4th
Oladipo 2nd

Newsflash: Orlando did tank after Dwight. The tank just didn't work. Tanks aren't a guarantee.

This. Tanking for high picks isn't a guarantee. Even picking high it's still pretty rare to get superstar(s). There's very few.

hugepatsfan
01-14-2017, 07:44 PM
As other have said, I think ORL needs to move Gordon down to the 4 and Ibaka down to the 5. Vucevic I think is a great offensive big to have off the bench so I'd keep him. Fournier should be the starting SG. Payton needs to develop more to be a great starting PG but he's certainly worth keeping at the very least as a backup. Mario isn't worth moving on from yet.

Signing Biyombo was so ****ing dumb for them after trading for Serge. I really have no ****ing idea what they were thinking. He needs to go for that team to work.

mrblisterdundee
01-14-2017, 09:46 PM
As other have said, I think ORL needs to move Gordon down to the 4 and Ibaka down to the 5. Vucevic I think is a great offensive big to have off the bench so I'd keep him. Fournier should be the starting SG. Payton needs to develop more to be a great starting PG but he's certainly worth keeping at the very least as a backup. Mario isn't worth moving on from yet.

Signing Biyombo was so ****ing dumb for them after trading for Serge. I really have no ****ing idea what they were thinking. He needs to go for that team to work.

How about Biyombo and Hezonja to Boston for Johnson's expiring, Brown and Rozier? Boston's not losing at a position they don't already have covered. They get a rim protector and a raw but talented young wing.

5ass
01-15-2017, 03:39 AM
How about Biyombo and Hezonja to Boston for Johnson's expiring, Brown and Rozier? Boston's not losing at a position they don't already have covered. They get a rim protector and a raw but talented young wing.

The Celtics wouldn't do that. I haven't seen much of Brown, but he's clearly a better prospect than Mario. Biyombo eats into their cap space next year. So not good long term move. The Magic would have to replace Biyombo with Ibaka for the Celtics to begin to consider.

mrblisterdundee
01-15-2017, 03:59 AM
The Celtics wouldn't do that. I haven't seen much of Brown, but he's clearly a better prospect than Mario. Biyombo eats into their cap space next year. So not good long term move. The Magic would have to replace Biyombo with Ibaka for the Celtics to begin to consider.

Ibaka would be great, but he's an unrestricted free agent. Are the Magic supposed to max and then offer him up next year to the Celtics?
Even Ainge said Biyombo was one of the Celtics' top targets over the summer. He's young, signed for under $20 million a season and provides good rim protection, even if he sucks right now because of his situation. Boston needs help on the defensive end, where they're ranked 20th in the league, according to Basketball-Reference.
What if you shrink the deal down — say Biyombo for Johnson's expiring and Rozier? Biyombo only makes $5 million more than Johnson, who's nowhere near as valuable. Boston needs to spend that cap space somewhere, and we've all seen what a rim runner/protector can do for title aspirations. Orlando, meanwhile, washes its hands of Biyombo so it can focus on Ibaka at center and Gordon at power forward.

Blitzbolt
01-15-2017, 10:12 AM
Biyombo was an awful signing but so was vogal I th I think the magic are best suited to run especially with Gordon and Fournier they're not suited for this defensive style vogal likes.

hugepatsfan
01-15-2017, 03:57 PM
How about Biyombo and Hezonja to Boston for Johnson's expiring, Brown and Rozier? Boston's not losing at a position they don't already have covered. They get a rim protector and a raw but talented young wing.

I wouldn't do that for the reasons 5ass stated. We do need rim protection but we also need a star wing. This trade would give us a lesser prospect for that role and eat up cap space that could also be an asset to fill it. The trade certainly addresses a need but at too great a long-term cost. Just not worth it.

5ass
01-15-2017, 05:09 PM
Ibaka would be great, but he's an unrestricted free agent. Are the Magic supposed to max and then offer him up next year to the Celtics?
Even Ainge said Biyombo was one of the Celtics' top targets over the summer. He's young, signed for under $20 million a season and provides good rim protection, even if he sucks right now because of his situation. Boston needs help on the defensive end, where they're ranked 20th in the league, according to Basketball-Reference.
What if you shrink the deal down — say Biyombo for Johnson's expiring and Rozier? Biyombo only makes $5 million more than Johnson, who's nowhere near as valuable. Boston needs to spend that cap space somewhere, and we've all seen what a rim runner/protector can do for title aspirations. Orlando, meanwhile, washes its hands of Biyombo so it can focus on Ibaka at center and Gordon at power forward.
If the Magic are looking to get rid of Biyombo, I think they can get a better fit/return than Rozier. The Magic have no use for Rosier so its like they're getting nothing in return. I think a team like the Blazers would give up a first for Biyombo. I'd also probably take Aminu and Ezeli over rozier. At least aminu can replace Jeff Green.

warfelg
01-15-2017, 05:17 PM
If the Magic are looking to get rid of Biyombo, I think they can get a better fit/return than Rozier. The Magic have no use for Rosier so its like they're getting nothing in return. I think a team like the Blazers would give up a first for Biyombo. I'd also probably take Aminu and Ezeli over rozier. At least aminu can replace Jeff Green.

I doubt they give up Ezeli because his contract is kinda favorable to them, and they love Aminu there. I think they would rather give up a protected first and Crabbe or Turner.

5ass
01-15-2017, 05:20 PM
I tried to make sense of the moves. Ibaka sounds like THE perfect compliment to Vuce but why find the perfect compliment for a flawed construct? Ibaka spaces the floor but his shot blocking is minimized away from the rim. Is Ibaka really a center in today's game? So they started the Congo bros but Biyombo is a special level of bad offensively that will only work if you have an explosive backcourt to offset his lack of offense(like Toronto did). Orlando starts a non shooter at the 1 and lost one of their most explosive guards to get Ibaka. Its just a weird roster where many duos fit together but they don't compliment the entire group. They are in desperate need of a direction cuz their rebuild has failed imo. Which is funny cuz many considered them winners of the Dwight jettison and posters like dlee LOVED their future prospects. them drafting guys that filled a positional need doesn't change that they settled on a flawed foundation

Full time center? I dont think that would work. He's an average rebounder at PF and he isn't good at defending post up centers. He should be playing some minutes at center though.

CityofTreez
01-15-2017, 05:20 PM
They are young and developing, and being bullied is not helping.
The bullied will rise up one day and praise be to God when that moment blossoms.

5ass
01-15-2017, 05:24 PM
I doubt they give up Ezeli because his contract is kinda favorable to them, and they love Aminu there. I think they would rather give up a protected first and Crabbe or Turner.

Ezeli hasnt played a game this year and probably won't. He's no more than an expiring contract. Crabbe and Turner are pretty terrible contracts. Crabbe has a trade kicker too so he'll be something like 21 mill/yr coming off the bench. I wouldn't touch either of those contracts. Neither is a good fit anyway.

valade16
01-15-2017, 09:56 PM
Ezeli hasnt played a game this year and probably won't. He's no more than an expiring contract. Crabbe and Turner are pretty terrible contracts. Crabbe has a trade kicker too so he'll be something like 21 mill/yr coming off the bench. I wouldn't touch either of those contracts. Neither is a good fit anyway.

I know Portland is very high on Aminu, doubt he goes for Biyombo.

Rumors in Portland are Ezeli was saying goodbye to teammates after a recent game and won't be traveling on their 4 game trip. The rumors are Harkless and Ezeli will be traded, not Aminu.

5ass
01-15-2017, 11:26 PM
I know Portland is very high on Aminu, doubt he goes for Biyombo.

Rumors in Portland are Ezeli was saying goodbye to teammates after a recent game and won't be traveling on their 4 game trip. The rumors are Harkless and Ezeli will be traded, not Aminu.
Hey I like aminu too, that's why I want him on the Magic lol. Biyombo is also a good player in the right situation, and I'm sure the blazers would love him too. I don't see Harkless being traded back to the Magic, but his contract is easy to move I think. Definitely a better option than Turner/Crabbe, so he could go to a third team.

TheDish87
01-16-2017, 11:34 AM
it was a horrible idea to begin with. no shock they stink.

mrblisterdundee
01-17-2017, 03:18 PM
I know Portland is very high on Aminu, doubt he goes for Biyombo.

Rumors in Portland are Ezeli was saying goodbye to teammates after a recent game and won't be traveling on their 4 game trip. The rumors are Harkless and Ezeli will be traded, not Aminu.

I hope that trade isn't in the works. Portland needs to hold on to Harkless, a do-it-all combo forward on a ridiculously cheap contract. He might not have the defense of Aminu, but he's more well-rounded and three years younger. He and Aminu both have similar contracts and skill sets, so trade Aminu and hold on to the future.

IndyRealist
01-17-2017, 03:36 PM
I hope that trade isn't in the works. Portland needs to hold on to Harkless, a do-it-all combo forward on a ridiculously cheap contract. He might not have the defense of Aminu, but he's more well-rounded and three years younger. He and Aminu both have similar contracts and skill sets, so trade Aminu and hold on to the future.

Harkless is a better scorer, Aminu a better defender. Which do you need more of around Lillard?

tp13baby
01-17-2017, 05:20 PM
Bully ball? 23rd in points in the paint per game, and 26th in points against in the paint per game.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
01-17-2017, 07:05 PM
Omg a thread about my magic? You guys are making me blush....

But yea we suck and it's hard to watch

The biz signing was a disaster. No idea how to fix this ...and we did tank for 4 years that's the said part the one year we had a high pick was oladipo at 2 he was ok but he was no Wiggins or Parker or towns or embiid.

We got super unlucky we get the 2 in a weak top 5 we get a 4 the year Wiggins Parker and embiid go 1 2 and 3 and the year we get 5th we were 100% taking zinger he was out guy the year before but he ended up not joining the draft but the Knicks take him at 4 and we get MARIO who hasn't done much besides be in the dog house ....

Super bad luck with some weird trades and signings sprinkled in and yea we need to reset again

5ass
01-17-2017, 07:52 PM
Omg a thread about my magic? You guys are making me blush....

But yea we suck and it's hard to watch

The biz signing was a disaster. No idea how to fix this ...and we did tank for 4 years that's the said part the one year we had a high pick was oladipo at 2 he was ok but he was no Wiggins or Parker or towns or embiid.

We got super unlucky we get the 2 in a weak top 5 we get a 4 the year Wiggins Parker and embiid go 1 2 and 3 and the year we get 5th we were 100% taking zinger he was out guy the year before but he ended up not joining the draft but the Knicks take him at 4 and we get MARIO who hasn't done much besides be in the dog house ....

Super bad luck with some weird trades and signings sprinkled in and yea we need to reset again

I still like Gordon and Payton picks a lot. Oladipo was a decent pick in that draft. I understand why hennigan drafted him considering he was a new GM. I only really hate that they picked Mario. Hennigan should've drafted Myles Turner. He's not that far off from Porzingis IMO. Drafting turner also means we don't sign Biz/trade for Ibaka.

5ass
01-17-2017, 07:53 PM
Bully ball? 23rd in points in the paint per game, and 26th in points against in the paint per game.

And that's with their PG doing a lot of damage in the paint. He probably scores more than anyone on the team in that area.

IndyRealist
01-17-2017, 08:36 PM
Bully ball? 23rd in points in the paint per game, and 26th in points against in the paint per game.

It refers to the defense, not the offense. Vogel has never had good offensive teams.

LeonFSU
01-17-2017, 08:52 PM
Vogel has been up and down. Biyombo has been mediocre defensively which isn't working when he's trash offensively. Boyombo and Ibaka combo hasn't been good. Both are overrated defensively. Not sure Biyombo is untradeable like some are suggesting. Consider the contracts signed by Noah, Hill, Mahimni, Mozgov, ect. This offseason. I'd still take Biyombo over most of them.

I guess it remains to be seen if he can be traded (or if the Magic want to trade him), but the guys you listed are some of worst contracts signed last year.

5ass
01-17-2017, 10:04 PM
I guess it remains to be seen if he can be traded (or if the Magic want to trade him), but the guys you listed are some of worst contracts signed last year.

Well yes but they're contracts signed after the cap jump so they're more or less indicative of the market price of such players. Also keep in mind that the cap is going to jump another 20% in the coming years, and Biz is still young so the contract will run through what will most likely be his prime years.

mia1619
01-17-2017, 10:34 PM
Hezonja, Payton, and their first for Dragic and James Johnson. Make it happen.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
01-17-2017, 11:35 PM
Hezonja, Payton, and their first for Dragic and James Johnson. Make it happen.

Lol heat fans have dragic value way to high ... Most I'd give is an expiring Jeff green and a pick

With him we are not that much better then we are now, especially with Paytons play improving a lot

Chronz
01-17-2017, 11:38 PM
Well yes but they're contracts signed after the cap jump so they're more or less indicative of the market price of such players. Also keep in mind that the cap is going to jump another 20% in the coming years, and Biz is still young so the contract will run through what will most likely be his prime years.

No, they're indicative of the market that particular year. Biyombo wouldn't get that money once all the outdated contracts run dry. The market will stabilize watch, especially now that we have a new CBA.

Also I dont know about the cap jumping after another year, its been speculated that it may go down after another small bump this year. We'll see tho

5ass
01-18-2017, 12:14 AM
No, they're indicative of the market that particular year. Biyombo wouldn't get that money once all the outdated contracts run dry. The market will stabilize watch, especially now that we have a new CBA.

Also I dont know about the cap jumping after another year, its been speculated that it may go down after another small bump this year. We'll see tho

Last heard its jumping to 120 mill by 2020. Dont get me wrong I think Biyombo is overpaid right now, but these days getting overpaid 2-3 mill isn't the same as before. I think you're right to say the sudden cap explosion caused more teams to overpay. I agree the market will settle, but I still think a great backup (especially a big man) like Biyombo gets 15 mill/yr.

tp13baby
01-18-2017, 12:36 AM
It refers to the defense, not the offense. Vogel has never had good offensive teams.

Still 26th in points against in the paint. In no way do they bully anyone.

IndyRealist
01-18-2017, 10:21 AM
Still 26th in points against in the paint. In no way do they bully anyone.

That makes zero sense unless you think teams only play offense. In Indiana it was referred to as "smashmouth" basketball. Two bigs shut down the paint and protect the rim. Perimeter players run guys off the 3pt line and penetration gets funneled into the shot blocker. You intimidate and beat the crap out of anyone that steps foot in the paint, forcing them into bad midrange shots. At least, that's what it was in Indiana.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
01-18-2017, 10:33 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=huhwpzc

Raptors would be great with serge no doubt in my mind he would stay and easily be a top 2 seed in the East for awhile

5ass
01-18-2017, 06:05 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=huhwpzc

Raptors would be great with serge no doubt in my mind he would stay and easily be a top 2 seed in the East for awhile

I'd pass on that. This makes more sense for the Raptors than the Magic. Ibaka is a top PF in the east and a perfect fit for the Raptors. If they want him they better offer more than two bench players. I like Joseph as a back up guard, but he's no starter. I also don't like the idea of having two PGs who can't shoot threes. I like the balance of having a shooter backing up EP. Ross probably is what he is at this point. If you try to make him a starter, he's likely below average. So I'm not sure this trade helps us now or long term.

I'm not sure they have the pieces to trade for Serge as I think they'll get outbid if he was on the trade block. The players I would be interested in are Powell, Siakam, noguiera, poeltl, ect. If we're trading Ibaka we might as well trade for some potential, and these guys are decent prospects from the little I've seen of them.

Chronz
01-18-2017, 07:56 PM
Ross has never gotten to play alongside a big SF, I think hes a decent break out candidate in another environment. Its not worth Ibaka but as you alluded, hes your best trade chip and do you really want to max out a guy who may not be at his peak when you finally figured out how to play?

Im also a big believer in Pat Pat, his +/- numbers are through the roof good so thats the best role playing stretch-4 to pair with Elfrid and AG(SF version) along with whichever center you choose to keep. Then again, he could just be another Channing Frye for you guys. A useful shooter who doesn't get the quality looks to shoot.

5ass
01-18-2017, 09:14 PM
Ross has never gotten to play alongside a big SF, I think hes a decent break out candidate in another environment. Its not worth Ibaka but as you alluded, hes your best trade chip and do you really want to max out a guy who may not be at his peak when you finally figured out how to play?

Im also a big believer in Pat Pat, his +/- numbers are through the roof good so thats the best role playing stretch-4 to pair with Elfrid and AG(SF version) along with whichever center you choose to keep. Then again, he could just be another Channing Frye for you guys. A useful shooter who doesn't get the quality looks to shoot.

Fournier was having a break out year before injuring his heel. If he didn't play injured recently he'd still be averaging 18-3.5 on efficient scoring and low turnovers. He's also younger than Ross. Not that Fournier is some all star, but he's been pretty good. Ross is still going to have to compete with him for that starting spot/ minutes. I'm just saying if we're going for potential, I'd rather have a young guy or pick instead of a 26 year old.

I'm not sure I'd want the Magic to max out Ibaka, but I think the Magic have the talent to make the play offs. If the Magic are trading Ibaka I'd like to either go for either potential, or impact players. I don't want anything in the middle where the potential and impact both aren't very good.

As for your point about Patterson turning into another Frye, well we heard this offseason how ibaka isn't going to get quality shots playing with EP and AG instead of Westbrook and Durant. Ibaka is currently having a career year offensively and the team is getting him better shots than he got in OKC. I'm not worried much about Patterson not being maximized, but like ibaka he is also a FA who'll get a huge contract. He's an okay player, but all I all I dont like the package. I think there will be better offers out there if Ibaka is getting traded.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
01-19-2017, 12:43 AM
People sleeping on Joseph he doesn't get many chances with Lowry in. Did anyone see him drop like 33 the other night when Lowry was out? Don't be fooled and sleep on him. Also Ross is a shooting threat we need and offers will not get much better for a URFA who can walk on any team

5ass
01-19-2017, 05:45 PM
What if the magic went after Howard? Do you guys think bully ball works? Replace Vucevic and biyombo on the team with Dwight. Dwight is a better paint defender than biyombo, and a much better finisher. Payton I think would play well with Dwight offensively. They could also play small ball with Ibaka at center when Dwight's on the bench.