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spreadeagle
01-10-2017, 02:22 PM
According to Zach Lowe of ESPN, the Miami Heat are open for business with any player on the teamís roster being up for grabs.

ďUp and down the roster, literally every player,Ē said Lowe towards the end of his latest podcast. ďLiterally no one is untouchable, not even Hassan Whiteside, by a long shot.Ē

After the Heat had given their franchise player a $98 million contract in the offseason, itís surprising to hear that the prized big man is far from safe.

So far this season, the 7-footer is averaging a league-leading 14.3 rebounds per game to go along with 17.2 points, both career highs. However his blocks average is the lowest its been in three years at 2.2 and many will argue that he hasnít given forth his 100 percent effort every single night.



Another player who seems to be headlining trade rumors on a nightly basis is starting point guard Goran Dragic, who actually may be the teamís most consistent and productive player this season.

The point guard is averaging a team-leading 19.0 points on 45.5 percent shooting from the field to go along with 6.6 assists a game. Heís also played 31 games on a team thatís been ravaged by injuries all season long.

Whatever the Heatís plan is moving forward, itís been made clear by Pat Riley in the past that the Heat are looking to rebuild for the future. So donít be surprised if the Heat acquire young talent and/or draft picks in the near future via trade or the upcoming 2017 NBA Draft. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/everyone-on-the-miami-heats-roster-is-available-for-trade-449517.html

valade16
01-10-2017, 02:25 PM
Whiteside should have gone to Portland.

GiantsSwaGG
01-10-2017, 03:27 PM
I knew once the Whiteside got his money he wouldn't give a **** anymore. Heat future isn't look too good now

Dade County
01-10-2017, 03:50 PM
lol

Avenged
01-10-2017, 04:52 PM
So what happen to the God Pat Riley?

Dade County
01-10-2017, 05:07 PM
So what happen to the God Pat Riley?

Doing what he needs to do. & he isn't a god lol

This is one of the rare years that Miami has their 1st rd pick. If they didn't land KD, it was reported that they would tank. They will have over 50mil in cap space and a top 3 pick hopefully.

What Miami is doing most be done. Pat wants to build a true title contender, there is NO way he can build a team right now that can stay with GS or Cav's; there is no point in building a team that isn't going to truly contend.

Thats not Pat style.

More-Than-Most
01-10-2017, 05:11 PM
they have like 2 players that i would want but wont give up unless they are gang banging you and the only real teams that could afford what they will likely want are bottom teams who wont get much better with their players or mid tier teams who get a tiny bit better but what they will give up will set them back years... i dont see trades happening

More-Than-Most
01-10-2017, 05:12 PM
I knew once the Whiteside got his money he wouldn't give a **** anymore. Heat future isn't look too good now

heats future looks like one of the top 5 worst in basketball. what do they have exactly?

More-Than-Most
01-10-2017, 05:13 PM
Doing what he needs to do. & he isn't a god lol

This is one of the rare years that Miami has their 1st rd pick. If they didn't land KD, it was reported that they would tank. They will have over 50mil in cap space and a top 3 pick hopefully.

What Miami is doing most be done. Pat wants to build a true title contender, there is NO way he can build a team right now that can stay with GS or Cav's; there is no point in building a team that isn't going to truly contend.

Thats not Pat style.

the thing about this is most teams have a **** ton of cap space but much more ideal situations.

TylerSL
01-10-2017, 05:44 PM
Honestly we shouldn't trade Whiteside or Justise Winslow (unless an absolutely incredible offer comes their way) and we won't. Nor will we get rid of Udonis for sentimental reasons as well as the fact that he has no value whatsoever. I'm sure the only reason they are even put on the market is because the team wants to listen to every offer. Everyone else however, should absolutely be on the market.

The fact is the Miami Heat really got a raw deal these last couple years and so we are forced to rebuild the team. The season has been over since mid December and we need to go all in for the #1 pick. We got to this point for a multitude of reasons, than began with Lebron's decision to return to Cleveland. Lebron implanted this notion to Wade that the team was mistreating him (the organization absolutely wasn't) and eventually he left to go to Chicago for literally $3 million more for 2 years (and they're not even good). Injuries killed our season the year after Lebron left and we were still a top 8 team in the league the following year and were one win away from a conference championship series (without Chris Bosh!).

The re-occurrence of Bosh's clots sealed our fates as his career is over. I know he wants and thinks he can come back, but the clots WILL return if he isn't on blood thinning medication and he cannot play basketball while on blood thinners. He may be healthy for 4 months, but he's just going to be sidelined again when the clots return. So losing all three of Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh, through whatever means in how that transpired, has gotten us to where we are now. We used capital to bring in Goran Dragic to try to win with Wade/Bosh/Whiteside and that was a good move at the time and I'm glad the team didn't just sit on their hands and tried to make the team better, but looking back that trade hurt us by circumstance.

We would not have traded for Dragic had we known Bosh's career was going to end in less than a years time and Dwyane Wade was going to bolt for a few million dollars. But this is the hand we have been dealt. Now we are a team void of future assets and who can't win now. Luckily however, we have some young players we have developing and can pick and choose which ones to move and to keep. Another obstacle, they haven't been healthy enough for us to even see what we have this year. So patience is the key here. The only trade that needs to happen, either by the deadline or over the summer, is Goran Dragic. We need to recover at least one pick that we gave up to get him and cap relief to give ourselves flexibility. Dragic still has three years of control left after this year at a good value (considering the going rate for players today) so we should be able to get something for him. The longer we wait the older he gets and the closer he gets to free agency, his value can only go down. Besides a Dragic trade, we are not up against a clock.

Based on the circumstances we have had to deal with we are in this situation and it is going to take a while to dig out of this. If we play our cards right and really hit a home run in this draft and lure a top free agent to Miami in the summer we could be back in the playoffs as soon as next year, but that may not happen either. We have to be prepared for anything while maintaining the flexibility needed to allow a big move. That means we have to keep developing the young guys (even Whiteside) and make good trades when the present themselves.

We won't be an absolute contender again until we get a franchise cornerstone and while that could be Whiteside (he's averaging 18/15/2.4 per 36) it doesn't seem like we have one yet. Whiteside honestly should be used more offensively as I think he could average at least 23 points a game if he touched the ball more (he's averaging 17.2 points on 13.3 FGA/game). There is a plan in place, but we have to hit on our opportunities. Our short term goals are we need to get a return for Goran Dragic, we need a top 3 pick (to get one of Fultz, Ball, or Dennis Smith), and we need the lottery not to **** us. Besides that it's hope Winslow develops a shot, and wait for guys like Richardson and Johnson to become more consistent. We'll be back soon, but what we do over the next year or so will determine how soon.

FlashBolt
01-10-2017, 05:47 PM
I said they screwed up by not resigning Wade.. there is no leadership on this team. Whiteside is probably their veteran/leader.. are you kidding me? Don't get me wrong, Whiteside is a very good player but he hasn't grown at all. He's still just a good rebounder/shot blocker. Their entire roster has no direction -- which makes it impossible for the team to consistently play well. Spo is a terrible coach getting exposed.. I wonder if he still talks about his spiritual crap instead of actually coaching. It's really amazing how an organization falls apart in two years. As soon as they lost out on KD, they should have just resigned Wade and prepare for the next season free agency. No one wants to go to Miami to play with Whiteside.. let's be real.

TylerSL
01-10-2017, 05:56 PM
I said they screwed up by not resigning Wade.. there is no leadership on this team. Whiteside is probably their veteran/leader.. are you kidding me? Don't get me wrong, Whiteside is a very good player but he hasn't grown at all. He's still just a good rebounder/shot blocker. Their entire roster has no direction -- which makes it impossible for the team to consistently play well. Spo is a terrible coach getting exposed.. I wonder if he still talks about his spiritual crap instead of actually coaching. It's really amazing how an organization falls apart in two years. As soon as they lost out on KD, they should have just resigned Wade and prepare for the next season free agency. No one wants to go to Miami to play with Whiteside.. let's be real.

It's not that we didn't re-sign Wade, he chose to leave. We offered him all of our remaining cap space, we couldn't offer him any more than we did. On top of that the team tried to trade McRoberts so we could offer more to Wade but since he's so bad and cannot stay on the court anyway, nobody would even take him for free. And we obviously weren't going to trade Winslow just to cover the couple million dollar difference. Honestly the team really made an effort to keep him and it was choice to go. Things are not as simple as you make them out to be.

FlashBolt
01-10-2017, 06:08 PM
It's not that we didn't re-sign Wade, he chose to leave. We offered him all of our remaining cap space, we couldn't offer him any more than we did. On top of that the team tried to trade McRoberts so we could offer more to Wade but since he's so bad and cannot stay on the court anyway, nobody would even take him for free. And we obviously weren't going to trade Winslow just to cover the couple million dollar difference. Honestly the team really made an effort to keep him and it was choice to go. Things are not as simple as you make them out to be.

You guys tried to do that after they treated him like dirt, though... it's almost as if they expected Wade to continue taking less despite him having done so in previous years. They should have paid Wade the moment KD didn't choose them. Seems like from all accounts, they tried to lowball him and then offered him what he had wanted but Wade felt disrespected.

TylerSL
01-10-2017, 06:22 PM
You guys tried to do that after they treated him like dirt, though... it's almost as if they expected Wade to continue taking less despite him having done so in previous years. They should have paid Wade the moment KD didn't choose them. Seems like from all accounts, they tried to lowball him and then offered him what he had wanted but Wade felt disrespected.

We didn't have the cap at the point because we had to renounce his rights to even get a chance at Durant. I also don't understand where we ever treated him like dirt (we asked him to take less one time in an attempt to remain competitive). Lebron/Wade/Bosh CHOSE to take less in 2010 (and lets be real it wasn't much less at all) and after Lebron left we asked him to take less to try to bring in someone else because we didn't think we could win with just Wade/Bosh. What you are saying is not correct because we didn't have the cap to pay Wade. The only way we could have paid him is if we had forgone the opportunity to get Durant and not renounce Wade. We wouldn't have had the space to go for Durant, but we could have paid Wade.

The team never treated Wade completely unfairly and really did everything they could to help him remain competitive as he aged. But Lebron James pointed out to Wade the business side and told Wade to go for every dollar you can and so he did. Wade, who remembered the two other occasions he took less (really one time though) wanted to paid for past actions and now it has been construed into some notion now that the organization mistreated Wade. That's not the case, was never the case, and he made 11 playoff appearances, and 5 NBA Finals appearances in 13 seasons because the organization was actively doing everything they could to be competitive. Money isn't the only way to take care of a player, no matter what anybody says.

FlashBolt
01-10-2017, 07:52 PM
We didn't have the cap at the point because we had to renounce his rights to even get a chance at Durant. I also don't understand where we ever treated him like dirt (we asked him to take less one time in an attempt to remain competitive). Lebron/Wade/Bosh CHOSE to take less in 2010 (and lets be real it wasn't much less at all) and after Lebron left we asked him to take less to try to bring in someone else because we didn't think we could win with just Wade/Bosh. What you are saying is not correct because we didn't have the cap to pay Wade. The only way we could have paid him is if we had forgone the opportunity to get Durant and not renounce Wade. We wouldn't have had the space to go for Durant, but we could have paid Wade.

The team never treated Wade completely unfairly and really did everything they could to help him remain competitive as he aged. But Lebron James pointed out to Wade the business side and told Wade to go for every dollar you can and so he did. Wade, who remembered the two other occasions he took less (really one time though) wanted to paid for past actions and now it has been construed into some notion now that the organization mistreated Wade. That's not the case, was never the case, and he made 11 playoff appearances, and 5 NBA Finals appearances in 13 seasons because the organization was actively doing everything they could to be competitive. Money isn't the only way to take care of a player, no matter what anybody says.

So you think Wade just decided he wanted to leave even after holding out that long? C'mon, man. It doesn't take a genius to realize that they just didn't handle it properly. If Wade wanted to leave, he would have done so way before it came down to the way it did.

Stunner
01-10-2017, 08:52 PM
Deng Josh Richardson to the bulls

Clint Olbrock
01-10-2017, 09:38 PM
"we didn't have to rebuild once LeBron left."

No, you sure didn't because you had 2 All-Stars still on your roster, lol

But the comparable actually happened and you lost your franchise player.. Wade.. Hey, look.. There's the rebuild you always threw in Cavs fans faces..

I'm loving every second of it!

kobe4thewinbang
01-10-2017, 09:47 PM
I feel bad for Whiteside, but can't blame Riley & co too much. Not much to be excited about in Miami right now. Lost D-Wade for zilch, still haven't traded a useless piece like Dragic, the Bosh nightmare situation, etc, etc. They don't really have much to offer in trades, maybe picks? They signed a bunch of guys to fill out the roster. Still don't know what they paid Tyler Johnson, but really? Let Brooklyn have him.

Dade County
01-10-2017, 11:48 PM
the thing about this is most teams have a **** ton of cap space but much more ideal situations.

I believe you are thinking, lets say Player X is a free agent, and a team like the 76'ers come along and they have 20mil to spend, player X should have the mindset that the 76'ers young core might be a good fit for me.

But the thing that most people don't factor in is that, there is a lot of politics that goes on behind the scenes; and Pat is a master at this. Just think it out a little, would Pat really do all this to Bosh if he didn't have something in motion already for that money?

HEAT trying to see what they can get for Dragic. I mean Miami is already going to free up a little over 50mil bout time free agency begins (Bosh money comes off towards the end of this month).

So you have to think about it as Pat is trying to team up 2 star players, and fill out the roster with whats left; and I believe he will pull it off, he just needs 1, and a domino effect will happen. Plus the top 3 pick Miami will get, he will trade that player away later a couple of months after the draft, for are final piece.

Then Bosh plays he's 25 games with his new team, and his money go right back onto the HEATS cap for the next 2yrs.

Quick rebuild... The End

ewing
01-10-2017, 11:50 PM
do you have to trade for all of them at once?

TylerSL
01-11-2017, 01:06 AM
So you think Wade just decided he wanted to leave even after holding out that long? C'mon, man. It doesn't take a genius to realize that they just didn't handle it properly. If Wade wanted to leave, he would have done so way before it came down to the way it did.

The one area I would agree that the team made a mistake was when we asked Whiteside to take a small pay cut if we got Durant but didn't extend that to Wade. I agree if we expected Whiteside to take less for Durant he should have taken less for Wade too. Had they done that maybe he'd still be in Miami, but I think he was offended that he didn't receive a max offer or something close to it. It is what it is and we move on, but the departure was on him.

In a couple years we'll probably come back and have more acceptance of this severed relationship. Wade gets to live in Chicago where he's from and the organization may get their next franchise player because of it. Hopefully someday soon we can reflect on the 13 years and it's apparent what he meant to the team, but him leaving hurt. Today is not that day and I would find it fitting if he never plays a playoff game in Chicago.

Big Zo
01-11-2017, 01:19 PM
"we didn't have to rebuild once LeBron left."

No, you sure didn't because you had 2 All-Stars still on your roster, lol

But the comparable actually happened and you lost your franchise player.. Wade.. Hey, look.. There's the rebuild you always threw in Cavs fans faces..

I'm loving every second of it!

We at least get to drown the sorrow of this short-term misery in paradise, while all of your success has to be celebrated in Middle Earth.

sep11ie
01-11-2017, 01:35 PM
Deng Josh Richardson to the bulls

Umm, what?

sep11ie
01-11-2017, 01:38 PM
I believe you are thinking, lets say Player X is a free agent, and a team like the 76'ers come along and they have 20mil to spend, player X should have the mindset that the 76'ers young core might be a good fit for me.

But the thing that most people don't factor in is that, there is a lot of politics that goes on behind the scenes; and Pat is a master at this. Just think it out a little, would Pat really do all this to Bosh if he didn't have something in motion already for that money?

HEAT trying to see what they can get for Dragic. I mean Miami is already going to free up a little over 50mil bout time free agency begins (Bosh money comes off towards the end of this month).

So you have to think about it as Pat is trying to team up 2 star players, and fill out the roster with whats left; and I believe he will pull it off, he just needs 1, and a domino effect will happen. Plus the top 3 pick Miami will get, he will trade that player away later a couple of months after the draft, for are final piece.

Then Bosh plays he's 25 games with his new team, and his money go right back onto the HEATS cap for the next 2yrs.

Quick rebuild... The End

Ummm, what?

RowBTrice
01-11-2017, 02:33 PM
Heat stink and they deserve it. This isn't going to be short term either. LBJ set them back a decade at least now.

GiantsSwaGG
01-11-2017, 02:36 PM
Heat stink and they deserve it. This isn't going to be short term either. LBJ set them back a decade at least now.

Idk about decade but they will suck for a very long time

Big Zo
01-11-2017, 03:27 PM
Heat stink and they deserve it. This isn't going to be short term either. LBJ set them back a decade at least now.

Just because the Cows never won anything after Jordan, doesn't mean the Heat have to suffer the same fate.

Quinnsanity
01-11-2017, 05:07 PM
Man, the Heat have some pieces that could really make a difference to the right team. Obviously Whiteside is a game changer for Portland if they could somehow get him without giving up CJ (though that's unlikely). Washington, Chicago, Milwaukee and Charlotte all come to mind as teams that could really use him if they could scrounge together a viable package. Dragic is a great fit in Orlando or Sacramento. Richardson and Philly is a match made in heaven if the Heat don't want to pay him, though anyone would love a young shooter like him. It's rare that a team this bad has this many useful pieces. They could really kick a rebuild into high gear quickly if they committed to it.

5ass
01-11-2017, 05:32 PM
Vucevic to the pelicans
Biyombo to the blazers
Whiteside and Dragic to the Magic
Hezonja, Green and Ezeli (expirings), 2017 Magic 1st, 2019 Lakers 1st (via Magic), 2019 Magic 1st, 2017 Pelicans 1st, 2017 Blazers 1st to the Heat

The Heat get to have four picks in this draft. With each being potentially a lottery pick. They tank this year and in 2018 (since the Suns own their pick) then try to improve significantly in 2019 when the pick is unprotected. They'll get atleast two lottery picks in 2017.

The Blazers bet on making the play offs. They desperately need defense, and Biyombo is a good fit.

The Pelicans get a good player on a good contract. He can be very good alongside Anthony Davis. Even if their pick ends up being a lottery, its still worth it IMO. Vucevic would be their second best scorer and give Davis a long term front court 20-10 partner.

Dade County
01-11-2017, 06:10 PM
do you have to trade for all of them at once?

No, they do not. Some players will get traded by the deadline and others during the off season/free agency.


Ummm, what?

Ummmm, what?


Heat stink and they deserve it.

Deserve what?



This isn't going to be short term either. LBJ set them back a decade at least now.

See you this upcoming off season.

Clint Olbrock
01-11-2017, 07:35 PM
We at least get to drown the sorrow of this short-term misery in paradise, while all of your success has to be celebrated in Middle Earth.

You all are garbage, idc how you spin it, lol

ewing
01-12-2017, 02:48 PM
no, they do not. Some players will get traded by the deadline and others during the off season/free agency.



Ummmm, what?



Deserve what?



See you this upcoming off season.

thank you

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2017, 03:09 PM
Bucks called Heat about a Whiteside, Dragic package. Middleton and Monroe and picks "plural" been kicked around. It was on twitter some Heat insider confirmed it been discussed. Sounds like Blazers are willing to pony up picks. But them will be very late also they own Cavs pick which will be very late.

https://twitter.com/Lefty_Leif/status/817808240285249536

Scoots
01-12-2017, 03:36 PM
Miami essentially had to overpay Whiteside or lose him for nothing. Pat knew that which is why he dangled him for trade last year.

I wonder how many people will support Miami tanking who were against Philly's tanking efforts?

Dade County
01-12-2017, 06:37 PM
Miami essentially had to overpay Whiteside or lose him for nothing. Pat knew that which is why he dangled him for trade last year.

I wonder how many people will support Miami tanking who were against Philly's tanking efforts?

Big difference is that Miami is tanking this season because it makes sense to, because they have their 1st rd draft pick. Miami will hit free agency hard while they have the money to spend.

And just know one thing Pat isn't going to target sub star players to rebuild the HEAT, he will be targeting difference makers; because this is his only open window (is this off season).

Because when Bosh plays 25 games next season with whichever team, his money will come back unto Miami cap.

I know everyone will say, why would player X want to come to Miami...etc

Just wait and see, Miami will be a true contender next season (fyi, I am a homer HEAT fan, so lol).

Dade County
01-12-2017, 06:45 PM
Bucks called Heat about a Whiteside, Dragic package. Middleton and Monroe and picks "plural" been kicked around. It was on twitter some Heat insider confirmed it been discussed. Sounds like Blazers are willing to pony up picks. But them will be very late also they own Cavs pick which will be very late.

https://twitter.com/Lefty_Leif/status/817808240285249536

Yeah, not happening.

I am sure plenty of teams would like Whiteside, but stupid trades like this won't go down. History proves this, Pat Riley aims higher then most.

Most likely Pat will pull off a trade where most people are like how the F did he pull that off. Pat has never done a rebuild where he just gives away are best players for Draft Picks.

But what Pat is doing is trying to pull in 2 to 4 teams, so he can connect all the moving parts and get the player he actually wants. Pat only needs one, then with that one sure star player, he can pull in other players, with the 50mil we will have in free agency.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2017, 07:56 PM
Riley still owes 2 first round picks alone for Dragic. Middleton was like 5 or 6 top SG last year before injury. Centers now days are a dime a dozen like PG's. Not sure I like the trade at all unless Middleton isn't the same player coming back but then Heat wont either. A lot of money with Dragic, Whiteside, Giannis, Parker at max like contracts. I wouldn't give up much more then what the rumor is. I wasn't on board at first. I'm slowly liking it. Whiteside give us the rebounds we lack. Also another shot blocker. So Giannis doesn't have to kill himself every night either. I think I rather get a third team like Kings involved to eat Dragic. Then Gay and Collison to Heat as well. Or whatever for pieces all over. Dragic here creates a log jam unless Brogdon play SG here on out. Yeah this trade alone gets Bucks past Hawks or Pacers for second round. Its interesting........

Dade County
01-12-2017, 08:05 PM
Riley still owes 2 first round picks alone for Dragic. Middleton was like 5 or 6 top SG last year before injury. Centers now days are a dime a dozen like PG's. Not sure I like the trade at all unless Middleton isn't the same player coming back but then Heat wont either. A lot of money with Dragic, Whiteside, Giannis, Parker at max like contracts. I wouldn't give up much more then what the rumor is. I wasn't on board at first. I'm slowly liking it. Whiteside give us the rebounds we lack. Also another shot blocker. So Giannis doesn't have to kill himself every night either. I think I rather get a third team like Kings involved to eat Dragic. Then Gay and Collison to Heat as well. Or whatever for pieces all over. Dragic here creates a log jam unless Brogdon play SG here on out. Yeah this trade alone gets Bucks past Hawks or Pacers for second round. Its interesting........

I'm sure lots of teams would like to get their hands on Whiteside, but this trade offer isn't going to land Whiteside. Sure Dragic might get traded and other pieces for draft pics...etc

Pat more then likely will surround Whiteside with Star players, instead of trading him for non super star players, or a draft pick that can bring in a star player.

Clint Olbrock
01-12-2017, 08:55 PM
Big difference is that Miami is tanking this season because it makes sense to, because they have their 1st rd draft pick. Miami will hit free agency hard while they have the money to spend.

And just know one thing Pat isn't going to target sub star players to rebuild the HEAT, he will be targeting difference makers; because this is his only open window (is this off season).

Because when Bosh plays 25 games next season with whichever team, his money will come back unto Miami cap.

I know everyone will say, why would player X want to come to Miami...etc

Just wait and see, Miami will be a true contender next season (fyi, I am a homer HEAT fan, so lol).
You can say the bold part, again lol

Clint Olbrock
01-12-2017, 09:47 PM
Yeah, not happening.

I am sure plenty of teams would like Whiteside, but stupid trades like this won't go down. History proves this, Pat Riley aims higher then most.

Most likely Pat will pull off a trade where most people are like how the F did he pull that off. Pat has never done a rebuild where he just gives away are best players for Draft Picks.

But what Pat is doing is trying to pull in 2 to 4 teams, so he can connect all the moving parts and get the player he actually wants. Pat only needs one, then with that one sure star player, he can pull in other players, with the 50mil we will have in free agency.
Even without Bosh the Heat won't have $50 million in cap :laugh2:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projecting-2017-18-nba-cap-room-under-new-deal-terms/

Rookie salaries are taking a 15% bump under the new CBA(because of the TV deal). You all currently have the 2nd worst record in the NBA, barring something crazy/the lottery and for argument sake, we'll go with it. Based off last season's number 2 overall picks rookie scale salary($4.4 mm/Ingram got the full 120% btw) that is roughly $5.06 mm.. But under thew new CBA unsigned first round picks will have a 120% cap hold which right off bat turns that $5.06 mm into a $6.07 mm cap hold.

You at the very least will have 5 cap holds for roster spots off the start which is now up to $815,615(from $254,122) under the new CBA, multiply that by 5.. $4.07 mm in cap holds.

Put all your player options picked up + Richardson being guaranteed on June 29th + your already guaranteed deals + both cap holds I presented.. Gives you roughly $70.65 mm(that's not including Bosh's salary) already on your books for summer of 2017. Plus you might want to include James Jonhson's $4.8 mm cap hold since people seem pretty high on him.

The new cap projection is $103 million, subtract what you have already.. The heat have about $32-$27.5 million to play with this summer.. Not $50 million, lol

Scoots
01-12-2017, 10:44 PM
Big difference is that Miami is tanking this season because it makes sense to, because they have their 1st rd draft pick. Miami will hit free agency hard while they have the money to spend.

And just know one thing Pat isn't going to target sub star players to rebuild the HEAT, he will be targeting difference makers; because this is his only open window (is this off season).

Because when Bosh plays 25 games next season with whichever team, his money will come back unto Miami cap.

I know everyone will say, why would player X want to come to Miami...etc

Just wait and see, Miami will be a true contender next season (fyi, I am a homer HEAT fan, so lol).

Feb 9 is the date the Heat can apply to get his contract off their books, but even then it doesn't happen until after an independent doctor says there is no chance he can play again. IF that happens and the Heat cut him he can immediately sign with another team and start that 25 game count down. I wonder if the NBA will consider punishing the Heat if Bosh gets to 25 games in 25 games? Also, will the Heat wait until Bosh has no chance of playing 25 games this season? If they cut Bosh before the season ends he could sign with the Warriors or Cavs and potentially play in 28 games in the post-season alone and screw up Riley's supposed plans.

Also, the Heat could be found to be committing insurance fraud and their insurer could demand their money back from the Heat along with a penalty if Bosh does come back and play healthy.

warfelg
01-13-2017, 10:33 AM
Feb 9 is the date the Heat can apply to get his contract off their books, but even then it doesn't happen until after an independent doctor says there is no chance he can play again. IF that happens and the Heat cut him he can immediately sign with another team and start that 25 game count down. I wonder if the NBA will consider punishing the Heat if Bosh gets to 25 games in 25 games? Also, will the Heat wait until Bosh has no chance of playing 25 games this season? If they cut Bosh before the season ends he could sign with the Warriors or Cavs and potentially play in 28 games in the post-season alone and screw up Riley's supposed plans.

Also, the Heat could be found to be committing insurance fraud and their insurer could demand their money back from the Heat along with a penalty if Bosh does come back and play healthy.

The better question is if an independent doctor says there's no chance he plays again, what team takes a chance on him?

Dade County
01-13-2017, 11:43 AM
Even without Bosh the Heat won't have $50 million in cap :laugh2:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projecting-2017-18-nba-cap-room-under-new-deal-terms/

Rookie salaries are taking a 15% bump under the new CBA(because of the TV deal). You all currently have the 2nd worst record in the NBA, barring something crazy/the lottery and for argument sake, we'll go with it. Based off last season's number 2 overall picks rookie scale salary($4.4 mm/Ingram got the full 120% btw) that is roughly $5.06 mm.. But under thew new CBA unsigned first round picks will have a 120% cap hold which right off bat turns that $5.06 mm into a $6.07 mm cap hold.

You at the very least will have 5 cap holds for roster spots off the start which is now up to $815,615(from $254,122) under the new CBA, multiply that by 5.. $4.07 mm in cap holds.

Put all your player options picked up + Richardson being guaranteed on June 29th + your already guaranteed deals + both cap holds I presented.. Gives you roughly $70.65 mm(that's not including Bosh's salary) already on your books for summer of 2017. Plus you might want to include James Jonhson's $4.8 mm cap hold since people seem pretty high on him.

The new cap projection is $103 million, subtract what you have already.. The heat have about $32-$27.5 million to play with this summer.. Not $50 million, lol




http://heatzone.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2016/07/11/are-the-miami-heat-in-position-to-sign-a-max-player-in-2017/

Bosh money comes off, trade Dragic, McRob (or release/stretch), & whoever else Pat decides to ship away.



http://heathoops.com/2016/12/how-new-cba-changes-will-impact-the-miami-heat/
The summer of 2017 will be a particular emphasis, with the Johnsonís contract remaining affordable for one last summer and the Heat able to begin the process of removing the salary of Chris Bosh from its cap sheet on Feb. 9, 2017.



After accounting for the changes,*Miami currently projects to have as much as $14 million in available cap space prior to Bosh relief. With Bosh relief, the total will grow to $39 million. It will grow further, to $41 million if Waiters were to decline his player option ($3.0 million), to $42 million if Reed were to do the same ($1.6 million), to $46 million if the Heat elect to waive and stretch the $6.0 million salary of Josh McRoberts or $47 million if the Heat were to trade him.
A potential trade of Goran Dragicís $17.0 million salary would leave the team with between $55 million and $64 million of room (depending upon the assumptions for McRoberts, Waiters and Reed).



If we assume (i) the Heat will get Bosh cap relief and (ii) the Heat will end up with, say, the #7 pick the draft*as a rough guideline:*Miami would have between $36 million and $44 million (depending upon the assumptions for McRoberts, Waiters and Reed) of available cap space to pursue potential free agents next summer. With a Dragic trade, those figures would increase to between $52 million and $61 million.


Have A Nice Day :hi5:

Dade County
01-13-2017, 11:50 AM
Feb 9 is the date the Heat can apply to get his contract off their books, but even then it doesn't happen until after an independent doctor says there is no chance he can play again. IF that happens and the Heat cut him he can immediately sign with another team and start that 25 game count down. I wonder if the NBA will consider punishing the Heat if Bosh gets to 25 games in 25 games? Also, will the Heat wait until Bosh has no chance of playing 25 games this season? If they cut Bosh before the season ends he could sign with the Warriors or Cavs and potentially play in 28 games in the post-season alone and screw up Riley's supposed plans.

Also, the Heat could be found to be committing insurance fraud and their insurer could demand their money back from the Heat along with a penalty if Bosh does come back and play healthy.


I think players have to be signed with a team before march 1st (or april 1st), in order to be playoff eligible. HEAT will cut him after that of course so he has NO chance of playing with a team this season.

But I think they will just cut him in the off season, so the media backlash isn't that great for this season. So Miami will get his money off their books Feb9th. Then they just wont talk about it, and tell reporters that they will comment on this matter during the off season.

Cut Bosh then, he signs with whatever team, and after he plays 25 games, his money is back on are cap; but before then HEAT would have signed everyone they wanted.

The End

Vinylman
01-13-2017, 01:26 PM
Feb 9 is the date the Heat can apply to get his contract off their books, but even then it doesn't happen until after an independent doctor says there is no chance he can play again. IF that happens and the Heat cut him he can immediately sign with another team and start that 25 game count down. I wonder if the NBA will consider punishing the Heat if Bosh gets to 25 games in 25 games? Also, will the Heat wait until Bosh has no chance of playing 25 games this season? If they cut Bosh before the season ends he could sign with the Warriors or Cavs and potentially play in 28 games in the post-season alone and screw up Riley's supposed plans.

Also, the Heat could be found to be committing insurance fraud and their insurer could demand their money back from the Heat along with a penalty if Bosh does come back and play healthy.

I am confused... has bosh been medically cleared to play by anyone? Why would the heat cut him before they get a determination from the league? How would the league punish the heat? how could the heat be committing insurance fraud? You do realize insurance companies would have their own doctors approve claims...

your response is sorta bizarre

Clint Olbrock
01-13-2017, 07:04 PM
http://heatzone.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2016/07/11/are-the-miami-heat-in-position-to-sign-a-max-player-in-2017/

Bosh money comes off, trade Dragic, McRob (or release/stretch), & whoever else Pat decides to ship away.










Have A Nice Day :hi5:

LAME

I didn't include Bosh's $25 million, because if I did your team would have only $2mm to $7mm at MOST :laugh2:

Until Dragic is traded the dude is on your team.. Therefore his $17 million contract for next year stays on your salary LOL

McBob is obviously going to pick up his option, so the only way you get out of his $6 million play option, is if you stretch him, which will still put some sort of salary on your books. If you flat out waive him, then his $6 million is still on the books, LOL

Reed will 100% pick up his PO because it would be the most he ever made.. Why pass on guaranteed money, smh.

Waiters may waive his player option but that remains to be seen and would only clear $3 million off your books.

You didn't include James Johnson cap hold unless you're going to waive your rights to him, you did not include your first round picks cap hold which is looking to be a 2.. Not a 7 currently.. You also didn't include anything as far as cap holds for having under 13 players which is a little over $800,000 per spot :facepalm:

You AT MOST have $32 million in cap, as things currently stand, not this unrealistic $50-$60 million you wish to be true, based on a bunch of fallacies.

Learn how the CBA works(especially the new CBA) just a little before spouting nonsense, good day.

Dade County
01-13-2017, 07:21 PM
LAME

I didn't include Bosh's $25 million, because if I did your team would have only $2mm to $7mm at MOST :laugh2:

Until Dragic is traded the dude is on your team.. Therefore his $17 million contract for next year stays on your salary LOL

McBob is obviously going to pick up his option, so the only way you get out of his $6 million play option, is if you stretch him, which will still put some sort of salary on your books. If you flat out waive him, then his $6 million is still on the books, LOL

Reed will 100% pick up his PO because it would be the most he ever made.. Why pass on guaranteed money, smh.

Waiters may waive his player option but that remains to be seen and would only clear $3 million off your books.

You didn't include James Johnson cap hold unless you're going to waive your rights to him, you did not include your first round picks cap hold which is looking to be a 2.. Not a 7 currently.. You also didn't include anything as far as cap holds for having under 13 players which is a little over $800,000 per spot :facepalm:

You AT MOST have $32 million in cap, as things currently stand, not this unrealistic $50-$60 million you wish to be true, based on a bunch of fallacies.

Learn how the CBA works(especially the new CBA) just a little before spouting nonsense, good day.


Dear goodness...


So Pat has never planned anything out before when it comes to the cap? I don't understand why people have to be spoon-fed.

It's call planning. You think they just sit around all year and at the last moment things just happen. And when Miami starts to make trades and move contracts, then what, you will act shock that all this is going on.

Don't get mad at me LoL, get made at the reporters writing the articles that can actually see what steps Miami will make to get to that 50mil.

Smh... The Hate is strong with in you. Just enjoy Lbj and move on.

You want me to post more articles on how Miami can move contracts/players around? Will you get upset at each and everyone of them?

Dade County
01-13-2017, 07:23 PM
LAME

I didn't include Bosh's $25 million, because if I did your team would have only $2mm to $7mm at MOST :laugh2:

Until Dragic is traded the dude is on your team.. Therefore his $17 million contract for next year stays on your salary LOL

McBob is obviously going to pick up his option, so the only way you get out of his $6 million play option, is if you stretch him, which will still put some sort of salary on your books. If you flat out waive him, then his $6 million is still on the books, LOL

Reed will 100% pick up his PO because it would be the most he ever made.. Why pass on guaranteed money, smh.

Waiters may waive his player option but that remains to be seen and would only clear $3 million off your books.

You didn't include James Johnson cap hold unless you're going to waive your rights to him, you did not include your first round picks cap hold which is looking to be a 2.. Not a 7 currently.. You also didn't include anything as far as cap holds for having under 13 players which is a little over $800,000 per spot :facepalm:

You AT MOST have $32 million in cap, as things currently stand, not this unrealistic $50-$60 million you wish to be true, based on a bunch of fallacies.

Learn how the CBA works(especially the new CBA) just a little before spouting nonsense, good day.


Just in case you didn't see it... idk


http://heathoops.com/2016/12/how-new-cba-changes-will-impact-the-miami-heat/
The summer of 2017 will be a particular emphasis, with the Johnsonís contract remaining affordable for one last summer and the Heat able to begin the process of removing the salary of Chris Bosh from its cap sheet on Feb. 9, 2017.



After accounting for the changes,*Miami currently projects to have as much as $14 million in available cap space prior to Bosh relief. With Bosh relief, the total will grow to $39 million. It will grow further, to $41 million if Waiters were to decline his player option ($3.0 million), to $42 million if Reed were to do the same ($1.6 million), to $46 million if the Heat elect to waive and stretch the $6.0 million salary of Josh McRoberts or $47 million if the Heat were to trade him.
A potential trade of Goran Dragicís $17.0 million salary would leave the team with between $55 million and $64 million of room (depending upon the assumptions for McRoberts, Waiters and Reed).



If we assume (i) the Heat will get Bosh cap relief and (ii) the Heat will end up with, say, the #7 pick the draft*as a rough guideline:*Miami would have between $36 million and $44 million (depending upon the assumptions for McRoberts, Waiters and Reed) of available cap space to pursue potential free agents next summer. With a Dragic trade, those figures would increase to between $52 million and $61 million.


Have A Nice Day :hi5:

Dade County
01-13-2017, 07:30 PM
Also, you act like Miami has never made a deal with a player to opt out of a contract. I mean this has happen time after time when it comes to Pat Riley making closed door deals.

But it's like the news have to hit you right in the face for you to realize it. You have no foresight what soever. Or maybe you do, but your hate for the hEAT is so strong that you really would like Miami to be a bottom feeder for the next 10yrs, which isn't going to happen.


So we will see what happens this upcoming free agency. This is crazy, you know how many teams are trying to get their hands on Dragic, so soon as Miami does that, then you are going to be like, oh ok, they can have the cap space now near 50mil.

Chronz
01-13-2017, 08:10 PM
Vucevic to the pelicans
Biyombo to the blazers
Whiteside and Dragic to the Magic
Hezonja, Green and Ezeli (expirings), 2017 Magic 1st, 2019 Lakers 1st (via Magic), 2019 Magic 1st, 2017 Pelicans 1st, 2017 Blazers 1st to the Heat

The Heat get to have four picks in this draft. With each being potentially a lottery pick. They tank this year and in 2018 (since the Suns own their pick) then try to improve significantly in 2019 when the pick is unprotected. They'll get atleast two lottery picks in 2017.

The Blazers bet on making the play offs. They desperately need defense, and Biyombo is a good fit.

The Pelicans get a good player on a good contract. He can be very good alongside Anthony Davis. Even if their pick ends up being a lottery, its still worth it IMO. Vucevic would be their second best scorer and give Davis a long term front court 20-10 partner.
The picks might be heavy but that looks like the greatest multi team trade ever

Clint Olbrock
01-13-2017, 08:20 PM
Dear goodness...


So Pat has never planned anything out before when it comes to the cap? I don't understand why people have to be spoon-fed.

It's call planning. You think they just sit around all year and at the last moment things just happen. And when Miami starts to make trades and move contracts, then what, you will act shock that all this is going on.

Don't get mad at me LoL, get made at the reporters writing the articles that can actually see what steps Miami will make to get to that 50mil.

Smh... The Hate is strong with in you. Just enjoy Lbj and move on.

You want me to post more articles on how Miami can move contracts/players around? Will you get upset at each and everyone of them?

Yes, PLEASE keep posting outdated articles from summer of 2016 about how you're going to move everyone to make this magical cap figure happen. *prior to the new CBA being agreed upon*

Keep in mind, you're trying to get at least one first round pick for Dragic if not two.. If either are for this year's draft, guess what? MORE cap holds.

Getting to $50 million+ won't be easy, you're a self proclaimed homer heat fan.. Keep that in mind.

Dade County
01-13-2017, 10:39 PM
Yes, PLEASE keep posting outdated articles from summer of 2016 about how you're going to move everyone to make this magical cap figure happen. *prior to the new CBA being agreed upon*

Keep in mind, you're trying to get at least one first round pick for Dragic if not two.. If either are for this year's draft, guess what? MORE cap holds.

Getting to $50 million+ won't be easy, you're a self proclaimed homer heat fan.. Keep that in mind.


The Article does say " How New CBA Changes Will Impact the Miami Heat " LMAO :laugh2:
http://heathoops.com/2016/12/how-new-cba-changes-will-impact-the-miami-heat/

What more do you want. I think you should call out the person that created the article and not be upset at the person showing you the article :nod:


Also, you have to know that Pat will try to trade picks for real proven talent, and the only reason why Pat hasn't traded are first rd pick, is because he can not trade are pick right now (due to consecutively traded 1st rd picks already).

And just wait, as it gets closer to Bosh money coming off of are Cap, there will be more Articles on this subject.



http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-ira-nba-column-s121816-column.html
The reality is that $60 million (the Heat's approximate 2017-18 cap space without Bosh and Dragic), won't buy you what it used to. And the buying power of outside suitors in free agency is about to be reduced, as well.

This is when you have to get creative, at least now knowing what the rules of the new workplace will be. The draft picks lost for Dragic will hurt, but the potential second-chance at Bosh's cap space will help. That is the new math for the Heat. The challenge now is to make it add up to more than what currently is in place.

You see how the article doesn't bother to mention cap holds and player z & X has to be move...etc

It's because it's common knowledge. So if you want to get upset, just call out the writer and keep it moving.

Clint Olbrock
01-13-2017, 10:50 PM
The Article does say " How New CBA Changes Will Impact the Miami Heat " LMAO :laugh2:
http://heathoops.com/2016/12/how-new-cba-changes-will-impact-the-miami-heat/

What more do you want. I think you should call out the person that created the article and not be upset at the person showing you the article :nod:


Also, you have to know that Pat will try to trade picks for real proven talent, and the only reason why Pat hasn't traded are first rd pick, is because he can not trade are pick right now (due to consecutively traded 1st rd picks already).

And just wait, as it gets closer to Bosh money coming off of are Cap, there will be more Articles on this subject.




You see how the article doesn't bother to mention cap holds and player z & X has to be move...etc

It's because it's common knowledge. So if you want to get upset, just call out the writer and keep it moving.

You literally know nothing, you can't even differentiate between are and our yet want to be crowned a brain child... Sure thing bud.

Go ahead and trade your picks for proven players, it's just more cap on your books.

You don't currently have $50 million in cap for this summer, nor will you come July.. Keep dreaming.

The heat are garbage, 2nd worse record in the league.

Dade County
01-13-2017, 11:01 PM
You literally know nothing, you can't even differentiate between are and our yet want to be crowned a brain child... Sure thing bud.

Go ahead and trade your picks for proven players, it's just more cap on your books.

You don't currently have $50 million in cap for this summer, nor will you come July.. Keep dreaming.

The heat are garbage, 2nd worse record in the league.


YouMad Now LoL

I can tell :laugh:


http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article121518597.html

Minimum salaries are rising 45 percent, increasing the size of cap holds for unfilled roster spots and potentially reducing Heat cap space by $1 million to $2 million, depending on how many holds the Heat needs. (Teams must account for 12 players with contracts or cap holds.)
If Dion Waiters and Willie Reed opt out and Chris Bosh is cleared off Miamiís cap (all as expected), Miami could have $40 million or so in space, depending on where it drafts, far more than that if it trades Goran Dragic, who is due $17 million next season.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article121518597.html#storylink=cpy

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article121518597.html#storylink=cpy

:laugh2:

And yes my HEAT are tanking right now... So I hope we can get the number 1 pick.

Cav's was gifted two number 1 picks when Lbj left, I can only hope Pat got that same deal.

Try again.

Clint Olbrock
01-14-2017, 12:33 AM
YouMad Now LoL

I can tell :laugh:



:laugh2:

And yes my HEAT are tanking right now... So I hope we can get the number 1 pick.

Cav's was gifted two number 1 picks when Lbj left, I can only hope Pat got that same deal.

Try again.

"Tanking" aka took Whiteside from a min to a max, whiffed on KD and lost Wade, Deng and iso Joe in free agency.. Yeah, I'd try to save face and say tanking too if i were you LOL 😂

mia1619
01-14-2017, 03:09 PM
You literally know nothing, you can't even differentiate between are and our yet want to be crowned a brain child... Sure thing bud.

Go ahead and trade your picks for proven players, it's just more cap on your books.

You don't currently have $50 million in cap for this summer, nor will you come July.. Keep dreaming.

The heat are garbage, 2nd worse record in the league.

Ya, you're just straight up wrong on this one. If they trade Dragic and Johnson at the deadline, combined with Bosh's money coming off the books on the one year anniversary of his last game in early february, plus Waiters is going to waive his player option without a doubt as he can probably double his salary after ****ing up his situation last offseason, and stretching Mcroberts, they will have a ridiculous amount of cap room. The exact amount depends on who they include in the Dragic trade at the deadline, but they will have significantly more than 30 million.

Not that cap room is really going to matter for us this offseason. We are going to have a top 3 pick at worst, and we are going to trade Dragic to acquire a 2nd fairly high first rounder. We might try to sign a guy like Hayward or Blake Griffin if he were to leave, but we will have much more than the max available to do so.

You're just straight up wrong on this.


Currently with our entire current team, including bosh, we have 92,978,971 in outstanding salaries for next year. With Bosh coming off the books, that makes it 67,689,581 for next year. A dragic trade for an expiring contract and a first round pick makes that 50,689,131. We will renounce our rights to Derrick Williams and Haslem who will likely retire, so their cap holds wont matter. Waiters can make much more than 3 million, especially when he gets a lot more playing time at the end of the year after we trade dragic, so he will opt out. Willie Reed probably will as well, but his number is inconsequential. If we stretch Mcroberts and save 4 million, that makes our salaries about 46,689,131. We also have Wayne Ellington whose entire 6 million salary for next year is non guaranteed, so we could clear that, but im not sure if the SPOTRAC numbers im using includes that in the outstanding salaries for next year. If that is included, that would mean around 40 million in outstanding salaries for next year, then the cap holds for draft picks only, because we will renounce the rights to any of our other free agents.

But hey, i'm just a guy who actually knows what the **** im talking about. Going off of ******'s numbers for cap holds, if we have the number 2 pick and another later lottery pick, that would be about 7 million in cap holds at the most, depending where the picks are.

The cap for next year is supposed to be around $103 million. I just did the math and even though Ellington's salary was non guaranteed, it was included in the total. So including Whiteside, Winslow, Richardson, Tyler Johnson, McGruder, and stretching Mcroberts for a 2 million cap hit, that is $36,464,297 in total salaries for next year. + the $7 million in cap holds at the very most for the first round picks that is 43 million. 103 million - 43 million? 60 million. Factor in very inconsequential minimum cap holds for the rest of the team, and we will be between 50-60 million.

You are wrong. But hey, im just doing basic math with minimal research. We all know that can be difficult.

5ass
01-14-2017, 04:04 PM
The picks might be heavy but that looks like the greatest multi team trade ever

Thanks, I love it for all teams. One might say Portland wouldn't give a first for Biyombo, but really is it too much? They don't have cap space and they barely have any salary that they could use as trade filler. The rest of their contracts are either untradeable because they're too valuable or they're severely overpaid. They don't have many options in terms of upgrading that C position.

I love it for the pelicans and Vucevic. I think he can be an all star next to AD.


The Heat set a plan in motion to tank this year and the next.

Clint Olbrock
01-14-2017, 04:19 PM
Ya, you're just straight up wrong on this one. If they trade Dragic and Johnson at the deadline, combined with Bosh's money coming off the books on the one year anniversary of his last game in early february, plus Waiters is going to waive his player option without a doubt as he can probably double his salary after ****ing up his situation last offseason, and stretching Mcroberts, they will have a ridiculous amount of cap room. The exact amount depends on who they include in the Dragic trade at the deadline, but they will have significantly more than 30 million.

Not that cap room is really going to matter for us this offseason. We are going to have a top 3 pick at worst, and we are going to trade Dragic to acquire a 2nd fairly high first rounder. We might try to sign a guy like Hayward or Blake Griffin if he were to leave, but we will have much more than the max available to do so.

You're just straight up wrong on this.


Currently with our entire current team, including bosh, we have 92,978,971 in outstanding salaries for next year. With Bosh coming off the books, that makes it 67,689,581 for next year. A dragic trade for an expiring contract and a first round pick makes that 50,689,131. We will renounce our rights to Derrick Williams and Haslem who will likely retire, so their cap holds wont matter. Waiters can make much more than 3 million, especially when he gets a lot more playing time at the end of the year after we trade dragic, so he will opt out. Willie Reed probably will as well, but his number is inconsequential. If we stretch Mcroberts and save 4 million, that makes our salaries about 46,689,131. We also have Wayne Ellington whose entire 6 million salary for next year is non guaranteed, so we could clear that, but im not sure if the SPOTRAC numbers im using includes that in the outstanding salaries for next year. If that is included, that would mean around 40 million in outstanding salaries for next year, then the cap holds for draft picks only, because we will renounce the rights to any of our other free agents.

But hey, i'm just a guy who actually knows what the **** im talking about. Going off of ******'s numbers for cap holds, if we have the number 2 pick and another later lottery pick, that would be about 7 million in cap holds at the most, depending where the picks are.

The cap for next year is supposed to be around $103 million. I just did the math and even though Ellington's salary was non guaranteed, it was included in the total. So including Whiteside, Winslow, Richardson, Tyler Johnson, McGruder, and stretching Mcroberts for a 2 million cap hit, that is $36,464,297 in total salaries for next year. + the $7 million in cap holds at the very most for the first round picks that is 43 million. 103 million - 43 million? 60 million. Factor in very inconsequential minimum cap holds for the rest of the team, and we will be between 50-60 million.

You are wrong. But hey, im just doing basic math with minimal research. We all know that can be difficult.

IDK why you just put all that lackluster effort into minimal research but allow me to take a dump on your post now, thanks..

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/understanding-terms-of-nba-nbpas-agreement/
"The rookie scale for first-round picks also climbs for 2017-18 by 15 percent."

http://basketball.******.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2018 Here is this upcoming drafts salary scale.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projecting-2017-18-nba-cap-room-under-new-deal-terms/" the industry standard 120 percent of rookie scale will also be the teamís cap hold while the player remains unsigned."

With all that knowledge.. Number 1 pick is $5,855,200 number 2 pick is $5,238,800 and number 3 pick is $4,704,500... Multiply all those by 1.2 to get your 120% cap hold that will come with em.. Pick 1 cap hold $7,026,240 pick 2 cap hold $6,286,560 and pick 3 cap hold $5,645,400.. Pick whichever cap hold you want to use.. Heat currently hold the number 2 pick before the end of the season and lottery but you said a top 3 pick at least so your cap holds for a single first round this pick were off, to say the least.. Throw me out whatever you project your other hypothetical 1st round pick to be and I'll do the math and calculate the cap hold for you.. If you get more than those 2.. We can do however many holds you want.

I don't buy you're trading, waiving, opting out and whatever else you're allegedly doing, once you do it we can talk figures because currently none are true but hey I'm just some guy living in the now.

Anyway you only left 5 guys on your roster where this next little piece of knowledge comes into play..

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projecting-2017-18-nba-cap-room-under-new-deal-terms/"Empty roster charges for every open spot under 13 will be the rookie minimum salary of $815,615."

You have to multiply that figure by 7.. For all the empty roster spots you left in you fantasy scenario.. Which right there is $5,709,305 in cap holds for empty roster spots.

Like I told you other little heat buddy, learn the CBA, especially the new one before you start acting like you know what you are talking about, when you clearly don't.

You need SO many domino's to fall properly just to get to $50 million in cap space in your OWN fantasy scenario you presented, let alone reality. :laugh2:

mia1619
01-14-2017, 05:24 PM
IDK why you just put all that lackluster effort into minimal research but allow me to take a dump on your post now, thanks..

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/understanding-terms-of-nba-nbpas-agreement/
"The rookie scale for first-round picks also climbs for 2017-18 by 15 percent."

http://basketball.******.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2018 Here is this upcoming drafts salary scale.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projecting-2017-18-nba-cap-room-under-new-deal-terms/" the industry standard 120 percent of rookie scale will also be the teamís cap hold while the player remains unsigned."

With all that knowledge.. Number 1 pick is $5,855,200 number 2 pick is $5,238,800 and number 3 pick is $4,704,500... Multiply all those by 1.2 to get your 120% cap hold that will come with em.. Pick 1 cap hold $7,026,240 pick 2 cap hold $6,286,560 and pick 3 cap hold $5,645,400.. Pick whichever cap hold you want to use.. Heat currently hold the number 2 pick before the end of the season and lottery but you said a top 3 pick at least so your cap holds for a single first round this pick were off, to say the least.. Throw me out whatever you project your other hypothetical 1st round pick to be and I'll do the math and calculate the cap hold for you.. If you get more than those 2.. We can do however many holds you want.

I don't buy you're trading, waiving, opting out and whatever else you're allegedly doing, once you do it we can talk figures because currently none are true but hey I'm just some guy living in the now.

Anyway you only left 5 guys on your roster where this next little piece of knowledge comes into play..

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projecting-2017-18-nba-cap-room-under-new-deal-terms/"Empty roster charges for every open spot under 13 will be the rookie minimum salary of $815,615."

You have to multiply that figure by 8.. For all the empty roster spots you left in you fantasy scenario.. Which right there is $6,524,920 in cap holds for empty roster spots.

Like I told you other little heat buddy, learn the CBA, especially the new one before you start acting like you know what you are talking about, when you clearly don't.

You need SO many domino's to fall properly just to get to $50 million in cap space in your OWN fantasy scenario you presented, let alone reality. :laugh2:

I mean, not really at all. Your huge "dumping" all over my post was to tell me i was off minimally on the rookie cap holds?

And not sure where you're getting all this "so many dominos" thing to continue to sound stupid. Haslem is going to retire. Derrick Williams has been terrible for us and his 4 million cap hold will be renounced. Waiters would be stupid to opt in to a 3 million deal. James Johnson and Dragic will be traded in the next month as expiring contracts (Johnson)/assets (both Dragic and Johnson). McRoberts being stretched doesnt take "so many dominos to fall properly."

We don't need many dominos to fall properly because once Wade left last offseason we signed a team of mostly one year guys.

Like I said, those 5 guys gives us 36 million. + the draft pick cap hold of around 7 million and maybe another 2 million due to a possible 2nd later first, + 6.5 million for empty roster spots. That is 51.5 million. By your own ****ing calculations. Cap is supposed to be 103 million. That is 51.5 million in cap space.

And im sure youre going to argue how incredibly difficult that will be despite the fact that it isnt at all. You are flat wrong. Whether you guys want to continue to argue semantics whether they will be over that randomly magic number of $50 million in cap space, we will have at least 45 million once we trade dragic and Bosh comes off the books automatically in less than a month.

You are wrong. This isnt tradign a team full of long term contracts and relying on that to calculate cap room. WE have a team full of mostly 1 year contracts, Boshs contract, Dragic's contract which is about to be traded, and Whiteside. And it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest to see us get rid of Whiteside either.

And like I said before, our cap space doesnt really matter after a certain amount for this upcoming offseason. We will be rebuilding for at least another year most likely, and we will have more than enough room if we wanted to land a max player/huge contract + another solid player anyway.

Clint Olbrock
01-14-2017, 06:34 PM
I mean, not really at all. Your huge "dumping" all over my post was to tell me i was off minimally on the rookie cap holds?

And not sure where you're getting all this "so many dominos" thing to continue to sound stupid. Haslem is going to retire. Derrick Williams has been terrible for us and his 4 million cap hold will be renounced. Waiters would be stupid to opt in to a 3 million deal. James Johnson and Dragic will be traded in the next month as expiring contracts (Johnson)/assets (both Dragic and Johnson). McRoberts being stretched doesnt take "so many dominos to fall properly."

We don't need many dominos to fall properly because once Wade left last offseason we signed a team of mostly one year guys.

Like I said, those 5 guys gives us 36 million. + the draft pick cap hold of around 7 million and maybe another 2 million due to a possible 2nd later first, + 6.5 million for empty roster spots. That is 51.5 million. By your own ****ing calculations. Cap is supposed to be 103 million. That is 51.5 million in cap space.

And im sure youre going to argue how incredibly difficult that will be despite the fact that it isnt at all. You are flat wrong. Whether you guys want to continue to argue semantics whether they will be over that randomly magic number of $50 million in cap space, we will have at least 45 million once we trade dragic and Bosh comes off the books automatically in less than a month.

You are wrong. This isnt tradign a team full of long term contracts and relying on that to calculate cap room. WE have a team full of mostly 1 year contracts, Boshs contract, Dragic's contract which is about to be traded, and Whiteside. And it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest to see us get rid of Whiteside either.

And like I said before, our cap space doesnt really matter after a certain amount for this upcoming offseason. We will be rebuilding for at least another year most likely, and we will have more than enough room if we wanted to land a max player/huge contract + another solid player anyway.
No one has ever tried to argue Bosh, it'll come off when it comes off.

Trading Dragic can clearly happen, just the getting ALL expiring deals + at least one first round pick back is asking an awful lot in return. I know you think it's easy and the deal is already in place.. We'll see!

mrblisterdundee
01-14-2017, 07:54 PM
At least the Heat have a few young assets in Winslow, Johnson and Richardson. Whiteside and Dragic are both decent trade chips.
Dragic, who's returned to form and is shooting 40 percent from three, could be a decent point guard for the Kings. I'd ask for a package based around Cauley-Stein.
Whiteside could be a good rim protector for Boston. I'd want Johnson's expiring contract, Smart, Olynyk and the 2017 Brooklyn pick for Whiteside and a role player.
Shooting would be an issue. But Miami would have three guys who can each competently defend almost every position. Johnson and Richardson both show promise as shooters. And they'd have a couple top lottery picks in a stacked draft. Talk about a quick reset.

5ass
01-14-2017, 09:01 PM
You think Boston would give up the potential 1st overall pick for Whiteside? I dont see it. Not in a strong draft like 2017. Whiteside isn't a superstar. He would definitely help the Celtics, but if I was Ainge I'd pass on that deal.

mrblisterdundee
01-14-2017, 09:28 PM
You think Boston would give up the potential 1st overall pick for Whiteside? I dont see it. Not in a strong draft like 2017. Whiteside isn't a superstar. He would definitely help the Celtics, but if I was Ainge I'd pass on that deal.
The top talent in the draft is almost all point guards. Boston already has an all-star point guard who looks like the second coming of Iverson. They also have two young reserve point guards with a lot of promise.
It's not a guarantee that whoever they draft works out. Whiteside, 27, is a proven rim protector who fits well with Horford, matches Boston's timeline and catches them up with Cleveland. He won't really have to be a leader, which I think will be good for him.
What if Miami added their first-round pick? It'll probably be lower, but still high.

Dade County
01-15-2017, 02:04 PM
"Tanking" aka took Whiteside from a min to a max, whiffed on KD and lost Wade, Deng and iso Joe in free agency.. Yeah, I'd try to save face and say tanking too if i were you LOL 😂

Good move by you, to change up this comment. It was very childish and you must have notice that. Thats why it sat there dead with no reply.

I will try again... Just enjoy your team! It takes a very sick person to be so obsessed with another team that even as your team is on top, you want that other team to stay down, for no reason (Wait, this sounds like me when it comes to the Knicks LoL... I never want them to be good, but I really do like Pk).

That other team(HEAT) showed Lbj the blue print to winning (which Lbj always says he has the blue print), and he took that back to middle earth; so why so angry? Shouldn't you be happy.

I just don't understand.

You are all over this thread just trolling, instead of being happy that Lbj is going to bring your team that you love into the final's again. I think a mod just write to you and maybe even remove you from psd for like two week, so you can get your mind right.

warfelg
01-15-2017, 02:51 PM
I find it funny how Heattle fans try to always portray Riley as some genius that runs the league and has this master plan that no other GM can think of.

Clint Olbrock
01-15-2017, 03:42 PM
Good move by you, to change up this comment. It was very childish and you must have notice that. Thats why it sat there dead with no reply.

I will try again... Just enjoy your team! It takes a very sick person to be so obsessed with another team that even as your team is on top, you want that other team to stay down, for no reason (Wait, this sounds like be when it comes to the Knicks LoL... I never wait them to be good, but I really do like Pk).

That other team(HEAT) showed Lbj the blue print to winning (which Lbj always says he has the blue print), and he took that back to middle earth; so why so angry? Shouldn't you be happy.

I just don't understand.

You are all over this thread just trolling, instead of being happy that Lbj is going to bring your team that you love into the final's again. I think a mod just write to you and maybe even remove you from psd for like two week, so you can get your mind right.

Just posted the truth.

I enjoy the Cavs being good BUT i equally enjoy the heat being garbage.. You would think it would humble some heat fans.. Clearly hasn't but maybe a few more years of it will, i doubt it though.

Green_Monster
01-15-2017, 03:59 PM
I find it funny how Heattle fans try to always portray Riley as some genius that runs the league and has this master plan that no other GM can think of.

The funny part is, it's not like he's done much recently. The Big 3 put together the team in Miami, not Riley. You'd think the last couple of off-seasons would've shown them that Riley isn't a god.

hotdalton18
01-15-2017, 04:03 PM
I knew once the Whiteside got his money he wouldn't give a **** anymore. Heat future isn't look too good now

Yes 17/14 is not giving a ****, you sound so smart

His blocks aren't the same cause he stopped chasing them and plays way better team D

hotdalton18
01-15-2017, 04:08 PM
You think Boston would give up the potential 1st overall pick for Whiteside? I dont see it. Not in a strong draft like 2017. Whiteside isn't a superstar. He would definitely help the Celtics, but if I was Ainge I'd pass on that deal.


Whiteside would make them a top 3 team in the league

Add the league leading rebounder and a great shot blocker to there team along with his 17ppg

They'd be competing with the cavs for sure

If they think a rookie PG that would be on the bench behind Thomas is better then that's fine but they don't get Whiteside without that pick being involved

Green_Monster
01-15-2017, 04:14 PM
Whiteside would make them a top 3 team in the league

Add the league leading rebounder and a great shot blocker to there team along with his 17ppg

They'd be competing with the cavs for sure

If they think a rookie PG that would be on the bench behind Thomas is better then that's fine but they don't get Whiteside without that pick being involved

They're not trading the current #1 pick for Hassan Whiteside, Carmelo Anthony, or any other player in that category. That can be dropped and forgotten, it's not happening.

Wade n Fade
01-15-2017, 04:29 PM
I find it funny how Heattle fans try to always portray Riley as some genius that runs the league and has this master plan that no other GM can think of.

People forget how Riley traded for Shaq, Jason Williams, James Posey, and Antoine Walker in major deals. They made up a core of the 06 Heat title squad. Riley is in the upper echelon of FO Executives.

warfelg
01-15-2017, 04:38 PM
The funny part is, it's not like he's done much recently. The Big 3 put together the team in Miami, not Riley. You'd think the last couple of off-seasons would've shown them that Riley isn't a god.

Amen man. Right place right time.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 05:33 PM
The funny part is, it's not like he's done much recently. The Big 3 put together the team in Miami, not Riley. You'd think the last couple of off-seasons would've shown them that Riley isn't a god.

You realize the only reason we had the cap space to sign them, Mike Miller, and re-sign Haslem is because Riley put together a plan starting in 2006-7 where he was able to turn a team with a **** ton of long term contracts and no real future with the aging of Shaq into a team full of expiring contracts that all expired in the same year, correct? Not to mention he convinced all of them to sign here when they could have signed in a few other places to carry out the very same plan?

Or how about when he drafted Wade and constructed a championship team around him in 3 years?

Or when he took a young franchise and made them into a contender in the East in the 90's that would have been a title contender had Jordan not run the league for an entire decade.

Go take a look at pat riley's resume and the consistent winning he has done through 3-4 decades and several different styles of basketball and get back to me.

Green_Monster
01-15-2017, 05:39 PM
You realize the only reason we had the cap space to sign them, Mike Miller, and re-sign Haslem is because Riley put together a plan starting in 2006-7 where he was able to turn a team with a **** ton of long term contracts and no real future with the aging of Shaq into a team full of expiring contracts that all expired in the same year, correct? Not to mention he convinced all of them to sign here when they could have signed in a few other places to carry out the very same plan?

Or how about when he drafted Wade and constructed a championship team around him in 3 years?

Or when he took a young franchise and made them into a contender in the East in the 90's that would have been a title contender had Jordan not run the league for an entire decade.

Go take a look at pat riley's resume and the consistent winning he has done through 3-4 decades and several different styles of basketball and get back to me.

I'm well aware of his history.

My post is still correct, so I'm not sure why you responded to me with this? Riley hasn't done anything recently. He didn't convince the big 3 to sign in Miami. The big 3 did that.

warfelg
01-15-2017, 05:46 PM
I'm well aware of his history.

My post is still correct, so I'm not sure why you responded to me with this? Riley hasn't done anything recently. He didn't convince the big 3 to sign in Miami. The big 3 did that.

I remember like 4 other teams doing the same thing, so it's not like the Heat were the only team able to do it, lol.

I swear Heat fans will be using this for a while as why Riley is a god among men.

warfelg
01-15-2017, 05:47 PM
People forget how Riley traded for Shaq, Jason Williams, James Posey, and Antoine Walker in major deals. They made up a core of the 06 Heat title squad. Riley is in the upper echelon of FO Executives.

And almost every one of those players was being shopped from their teams because they were looking to move them.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 05:52 PM
I'm well aware of his history.

My post is still correct, so I'm not sure why you responded to me with this? Riley hasn't done anything recently. He didn't convince the big 3 to sign in Miami. The big 3 did that.

"He hasnt done anything recently." hahahahahahaha. He was the president of the team that went to 4 consecutive finals and won 2 championships, and 3 in the past 10 years. He signed the big 3. He took a team that won 20 something games in 2002 and turned them into a title contender in two years by acquiring Shaq, and then made the biggest trade in NBA history in getting 3 huge pieces on a championship team in Posey, Walker, and Jason Williams. He then made moves for 4 years with a singular focus on 2010 that was created the second Lebron, Wade, and Bosh signed max contracts in their previous deals.

Your post is not correct. Not even close. Again, the only reason why we were able to even fit all of those guys was because of Riley's ability to convince them to take less and construct a plan for 4 years prior to the time they were actually signed them that gave them the ability to have enough cap space and expiring contracts to sign 3 superstars.

Riley not being given credit for putting that all together is one of the dumbest things ive ever heard, not to mention is just a complete disregard for him coming up with a plan and following through with it for 4 years without the slightest guarantee it would work, as well as only missing the playoffs once in that time due to Wade's knee and shoulder problems.

Or how about losing the best player in the game and possibly the best player of all time, missing the playoffs only once (while not bottoming out and getting a top pick) in the year after due to Bosh's blood clots, and then being right back to being a game away from the conference finals the next year, all without Chris Bosh. You're straight up ****ing wrong, and taking away credit from what Riley did just because the big 3 all agreed to play together is absurd.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 05:53 PM
And almost every one of those players was being shopped from their teams because they were looking to move them.

And? Lakers were shopping Shaq too. Should he not get credit for making the move and having a package of assets available to trade that were enough to get one of the best big men in the games history at the tail end of his prime?

mia1619
01-15-2017, 05:55 PM
I remember like 4 other teams doing the same thing, so it's not like the Heat were the only team able to do it, lol.

I swear Heat fans will be using this for a while as why Riley is a god among men.

Ya, no, there were not 4 other teams who could fit all 3 of those guys under the salary cap, while also resigning/signing 2 other key pieces for a fairly sizable amount as well.

warfelg
01-15-2017, 05:57 PM
And? Lakers were shopping Shaq too. Should he not get credit for making the move and having a package of assets available to trade that were enough to get one of the best big men in the games history at the tail end of his prime?

Meaning it's not like it took something special to convince a team to give up a great player.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 06:04 PM
Meaning it's not like it took something special to convince a team to give up a great player.

he constructed the biggest trade in nba history, and acquired 3 key contributors on a championship team. Who the **** cares how he did it. His job isnt to pull off miracles and convince teams to trade guys they dont want to trade, his job is to put together a championship team and he did so within 3 years of having one of the worst records in the league, and has done so by missing the playoffs only 3 times in the last 15 years, and the only top 3 pick being Michael Beasley. Aside from the Spurs no team has been as successful in the NBA as the heat for the last 15 years, and almost all of that is due to the stability, player acquisition, and consistent long term planning of Pat Riley.

Green_Monster
01-15-2017, 06:19 PM
I remember like 4 other teams doing the same thing, so it's not like the Heat were the only team able to do it, lol.

I swear Heat fans will be using this for a while as why Riley is a god among men.

Yeah, having contracts expire in the same year isn't too difficult when you have 4 years to do it (he said Riley started in 06-07). Not sure why he thinks that's amazing. That's actually super easy.

Green_Monster
01-15-2017, 06:21 PM
"He hasnt done anything recently." hahahahahahaha. He was the president of the team that went to 4 consecutive finals and won 2 championships, and 3 in the past 10 years. He signed the big 3. He took a team that won 20 something games in 2002 and turned them into a title contender in two years by acquiring Shaq, and then made the biggest trade in NBA history in getting 3 huge pieces on a championship team in Posey, Walker, and Jason Williams. He then made moves for 4 years with a singular focus on 2010 that was created the second Lebron, Wade, and Bosh signed max contracts in their previous deals.

Your post is not correct. Not even close. Again, the only reason why we were able to even fit all of those guys was because of Riley's ability to convince them to take less and construct a plan for 4 years prior to the time they were actually signed them that gave them the ability to have enough cap space and expiring contracts to sign 3 superstars.

Riley not being given credit for putting that all together is one of the dumbest things ive ever heard, not to mention is just a complete disregard for him coming up with a plan and following through with it for 4 years without the slightest guarantee it would work, as well as only missing the playoffs once in that time due to Wade's knee and shoulder problems.

Or how about losing the best player in the game and possibly the best player of all time, missing the playoffs only once (while not bottoming out and getting a top pick) in the year after due to Bosh's blood clots, and then being right back to being a game away from the conference finals the next year, all without Chris Bosh. You're straight up ****ing wrong, and taking away credit from what Riley did just because the big 3 all agreed to play together is absurd.

Laugh all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Riley had almost nothing with convincing the big three to sign together. That was all the big threes work. Veterans flocked to them after. Take off the homer shades.

Clint Olbrock
01-15-2017, 06:21 PM
"He hasnt done anything recently." hahahahahahaha. He was the president of the team that went to 4 consecutive finals and won 2 championships, and 3 in the past 10 years. He signed the big 3. He took a team that won 20 something games in 2002 and turned them into a title contender in two years by acquiring Shaq, and then made the biggest trade in NBA history in getting 3 huge pieces on a championship team in Posey, Walker, and Jason Williams. He then made moves for 4 years with a singular focus on 2010 that was created the second Lebron, Wade, and Bosh signed max contracts in their previous deals.

Your post is not correct. Not even close. Again, the only reason why we were able to even fit all of those guys was because of Riley's ability to convince them to take less and construct a plan for 4 years prior to the time they were actually signed them that gave them the ability to have enough cap space and expiring contracts to sign 3 superstars.

Riley not being given credit for putting that all together is one of the dumbest things ive ever heard, not to mention is just a complete disregard for him coming up with a plan and following through with it for 4 years without the slightest guarantee it would work, as well as only missing the playoffs once in that time due to Wade's knee and shoulder problems.

Or how about losing the best player in the game and possibly the best player of all time, missing the playoffs only once (while not bottoming out and getting a top pick) in the year after due to Bosh's blood clots, and then being right back to being a game away from the conference finals the next year, all without Chris Bosh. You're straight up ****ing wrong, and taking away credit from what Riley did just because the big 3 all agreed to play together is absurd.

Yet this same guy ran all 3 outta town LOL

mia1619
01-15-2017, 06:26 PM
Yeah, having contracts expire in the same year isn't too difficult when you have 4 years to do it (he said Riley started in 06-07). Not sure why he thinks that's amazing. That's actually super easy.

Because he stuck to a plan for 4 years and didnt deviate when he could have constructed a different team easily during that time period, while still being a solid, playoff team, and constructed a championship team due to his ability to make the heat able to sign 3 hall of fame players in the same day due to years of maneuvering.

Results speak for themselves. But you're right, any GM can win 3 championships in 10 years, go the finals 4 straight years, 6 conference championship appearances total, all while only missing the playoffs 3 times and the only top 3 pick being a bust (so he didnt luck into a superstar). He lucked into all of that. How easy. All while being the epitome of professional as an organization and also, along with the spurs, being the epitome of stability in the mordern nba. Riley is given exactly the amount of respect he deserves.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 06:30 PM
Laugh all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Riley had almost nothing with convincing the big three to sign together. That was all the big threes work. Veterans flocked to them after. Take off the homer shades.

Homer shades? They are warranted due to Riley being the president of the team with arguably the most success in the nba over the past 15 years. Why Miami rather than New York, Chicago, etc? Because the heat are the epitome of the most well run and respected and stable team in the league.

Continue to discredit what he's done in any way you want. You are flat wrong. Who cares how he did it? He did it, and did it by convincing them to take a discount. Might want to take those hater shades off.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 06:34 PM
Yet this same guy ran all 3 outta town LOL

He didnt run Lebron off, Lebron lied to his face and ran him through a charade meeting rather than telling him to his face he wanted to go home.

Chris Bosh cant play. Not sure how that is running him off simply because it would probably be slightly bad if Bosh died on the court, similar to how Erik Spoelstra was the PG on the opposing team when the UNLV player died.

Wade wasnt run off in the slightest. You dont get contracts for previous results. You get paid based on what you can provide over the life of the contract. Part of the reason we have missed the playoffs so infrequently is because of Riley's ability to seperate emotion from business. You dont have to agree with it, but its the reason why we have been maybe the most successful team over the last 15 years. The way the heat have played this year on top of how Wade has played given how much money he asked for shows that Riley made the right decision.

Clint Olbrock
01-15-2017, 06:48 PM
He didnt run Lebron off, Lebron lied to his face and ran him through a charade meeting rather than telling him to his face he wanted to go home.

Chris Bosh cant play. Not sure how that is running him off simply because it would probably be slightly bad if Bosh died on the court, similar to how Erik Spoelstra was the PG on the opposing team when the UNLV player died.

Wade wasnt run off in the slightest. You dont get contracts for previous results. You get paid based on what you can provide over the life of the contract. Part of the reason we have missed the playoffs so infrequently is because of Riley's ability to seperate emotion from business. You dont have to agree with it, but its the reason why we have been maybe the most successful team over the last 15 years. The way the heat have played this year on top of how Wade has played given how much money he asked for shows that Riley made the right decision.

The last time the Spurs missed the playoffs was in 1997.. Quit trying to put your team in the same breathe as them.. It's an insult to the Spurs, who are the most classy team in the NBA.

LeBron has went to SIX straight finals.. Your entire organization was taken outta the equation and he still kept truckin' along. Quit trying to take away from his accomplishment.

As far as running the big 3 off.. Pat mismanaged and mishandled all 3 situations individually and collectively, which has now resulted in the heat being a complete dumpster fire and fighting for the leagues worst record...

Green_Monster
01-15-2017, 06:51 PM
Homer shades? They are warranted due to Riley being the president of the team with arguably the most success in the nba over the past 15 years. Why Miami rather than New York, Chicago, etc? Because the heat are the epitome of the most well run and respected and stable team in the league.

No, that would be the Spurs. Homer shades.


Continue to discredit what he's done in any way you want. You are flat wrong. Who cares how he did it? He did it, and did it by convincing them to take a discount. Might want to take those hater shades off.

Any team that LeBron, Wade, and Bosh joined together would've seen the same success. It's cute that you think Riley was the reason for it though.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 06:59 PM
No, that would be the Spurs. Homer shades.



Any team that LeBron, Wade, and Bosh joined together would've seen the same success. It's cute that you think Riley was the reason for it though.

Oh, great response. The second most well run and respected and stable team in the league. I literally said the spurs are the only other more stable team in the league the post before that.

It's cute that you think any other team had the cap space due to great management to fit all 3 of those guys under the cap, AND convince them to take less to make it happen, and not just fill out the team with only minimum salary players. Continue to hate on one of the most successful 4 year runs in NBA history though, you sound like a complete moron.

No **** they would have had that success, but why did they choose miami out of every team in the league? Stability, ownership, and the godfather. DISCOUNTED!

warfelg
01-15-2017, 07:03 PM
The last time the Spurs missed the playoffs was in 1997.. Quit trying to put your team in the same breathe as them.. It's an insult to the Spurs, who are the most classy team in the NBA.

LeBron has went to SIX straight finals.. Your entire organization was taken outta the equation and he still kept truckin' along. Quit trying to take away from his accomplishment.

As far as running the big 3 off.. Pat mismanaged and mishandled all 3 situations individually and collectively, which has now resulted in the heat being a complete dumpster fire and fighting for the leagues worst record...

Worse part is now Dragic and Whiteside are on max deals. Dragic is going to be very hard to trade and will require taking a long term bad contract back, and Whiteside isn't going to bring the haul that they think because of needing to salary match.

I just think it's silly to crown Riley when in each of these big moves, you're talking about something 29 other NBA GM's tried to do.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 07:04 PM
The last time the Spurs missed the playoffs was in 1997.. Quit trying to put your team in the same breathe as them.. It's an insult to the Spurs, who are the most classy team in the NBA.

LeBron has went to SIX straight finals.. Your entire organization was taken outta the equation and he still kept truckin' along. Quit trying to take away from his accomplishment.

As far as running the big 3 off.. Pat mismanaged and mishandled all 3 situations individually and collectively, which has now resulted in the heat being a complete dumpster fire and fighting for the leagues worst record...

We have the exact same amount of championships over the last 15 years. Ill take it.

Lebron has gone to the finals the last 2 years because the cavs were a dumpster fire for 4 years when he left and gave them 3 #1 picks, Tristan Thompson in the top 5, which gave talent around Lebron. You of all people being a Cavs fan should know just how poorly run the cavs have been. Not sure where anyone took away from his accomplishment.

You can argue Pat mishandled lebron. You could also argue Lebron lied and purposely misled and lied to Riley.
Again, not sure how Riley mishandled bosh. He cant play. And Wade getting 23 million at this age would have been a huge mistake to be out in the first or second round. Part of the reason we have won 3 championships and been to 6 conference championships is because we dont do what the Sacramento, Orlando's, etc do and be mediocre for a prolonged period of time. There is no point paying wade 23 million when we arent a championship contender. Its part of the reason we have been one of the most successful teams in the league for the last 15 years.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 07:07 PM
Worse part is now Dragic and Whiteside are on max deals. Dragic is going to be very hard to trade and will require taking a long term bad contract back, and Whiteside isn't going to bring the haul that they think because of needing to salary match.

I just think it's silly to crown Riley when in each of these big moves, you're talking about something 29 other NBA GM's tried to do.

Dragic is not being paid anywhere close to the max, and will be traded to acquire a 2nd first round pick in the next month, and we will have around 50 million to spend this offseason, a top 3 pick, and one of the best centers in the league, as well as talent under contract for cheap in Johnson, Winslow, and Richardson. Yet another reason why we are never like the teams who are stuck in NBA purgatory. We either contend, or blow it up to reinvent the team so that we will contend in the near future. I'd love for you to name 3 better nba GM's other than RC Buford who have the history of championships as well as the lack of prolonged periods of not being relevant.

warfelg
01-15-2017, 07:16 PM
5 years, $90 million signed in 2015 was the max he could get. So yes it was a max contract.

2017/18 - $17million
2018/19 - $18million
2010/20 - $19million

Low low price for a declining PG in his 30, 31, 32 aged seasons.

Also there is only 2 teams in the NBA that can trade for Dragic and his contract without sending you a contract back. They are the Denver Nuggets (no need), and Brooklyn Nets (Marks is smarter than that). Any other team would need to send back contracts. And I can't think of a team that would send expiring contracts back to you to make this deal work.

Green_Monster
01-15-2017, 07:30 PM
Oh, great response. The second most well run and respected and stable team in the league. I literally said the spurs are the only other more stable team in the league the post before that.

It's cute that you think any other team had the cap space due to great management to fit all 3 of those guys under the cap, AND convince them to take less to make it happen, and not just fill out the team with only minimum salary players. Continue to hate on one of the most successful 4 year runs in NBA history though, you sound like a complete moron.

No **** they would have had that success, but why did they choose miami out of every team in the league? Stability, ownership, and the godfather. DISCOUNTED!

They chose Miami because it's a warm weather city and Wade was already there. Basically a dream spot for them. Any GM can make contracts expire in the same year, stop acting like that was a great accomplishment.

"The Godfather". Thanks for proving my point. Goodbye.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 07:34 PM
5 years, $90 million signed in 2015 was the max he could get. So yes it was a max contract.

2017/18 - $17million
2018/19 - $18million
2010/20 - $19million

Low low price for a declining PG in his 30, 31, 32 aged seasons.

Also there is only 2 teams in the NBA that can trade for Dragic and his contract without sending you a contract back. They are the Denver Nuggets (no need), and Brooklyn Nets (Marks is smarter than that). Any other team would need to send back contracts. And I can't think of a team that would send expiring contracts back to you to make this deal work.

That wasn't Dragic's max, his max was 5 years 110 million or so. Also, there are plenty of teams who would send a first for Dragic. The Magic were reported to be interested in him literally 2 days ago and would have a mid first rounder and have jeff greens expiring. Solid try though. Also, i wasnt referring to Dragic's max contract when he signed the deal, i was referring to a max contract now, and the going rate for players in free agency shown last summer, when fringe rotation players were given 15 million a year. His deal is actually pretty solid value for him given how the cap has risen.

mia1619
01-15-2017, 07:34 PM
They chose Miami because it's a warm weather city and Wade was already there. Basically a dream spot for them. Any GM can make contracts expire in the same year, stop acting like that was a great accomplishment.

"The Godfather". Thanks for proving my point. Goodbye.

Why was Wade here?

5ass
01-15-2017, 07:43 PM
5 years, $90 million signed in 2015 was the max he could get. So yes it was a max contract.

2017/18 - $17million
2018/19 - $18million
2010/20 - $19million

Low low price for a declining PG in his 30, 31, 32 aged seasons.

Also there is only 2 teams in the NBA that can trade for Dragic and his contract without sending you a contract back. They are the Denver Nuggets (no need), and Brooklyn Nets (Marks is smarter than that). Any other team would need to send back contracts. And I can't think of a team that would send expiring contracts back to you to make this deal work.

Well within three years the cap will rise another 20%. I don't think his contract is bad. I think the Heat will easily get an expiring and either a first/prospect. The nets, kings, nuggets, magic and sixers could all use his services. If I'm the Kings I'd easily put WCS/Papgiannis on the table. I'm pretty sure they have expiring contracts too.

warfelg
01-15-2017, 07:52 PM
Well within three years the cap will rise another 20%. I don't think his contract is bad. I think the Heat will easily get an expiring and either a first/prospect. The nets, kings, nuggets, magic and sixers could all use his services. If I'm the Kings I'd easily put WCS/Papgiannis on the table. I'm pretty sure they have expiring contracts too.

I don't want him on the Sixers. He's not that great unless he's got the ball in his hands.

Nets could want him, but who do they have to trade. Kings have been getting really good PG play out of Darren Collison, Nuggets have Mudiay, Murry, Harris, and Nelson. I won't speak to your situation, but bringing in Dragic for Green? Why would you guys give up the ability to have cap space again this summer. And you guys need to thin out your big situation a little, and I'm not sure Miami takes that.

5ass
01-15-2017, 08:32 PM
I don't want him on the Sixers. He's not that great unless he's got the ball in his hands.

Nets could want him, but who do they have to trade. Kings have been getting really good PG play out of Darren Collison, Nuggets have Mudiay, Murry, Harris, and Nelson. I won't speak to your situation, but bringing in Dragic for Green? Why would you guys give up the ability to have cap space again this summer. And you guys need to thin out your big situation a little, and I'm not sure Miami takes that.
I remember him being a good fit with Bledsoe. Iirc they mostly just had issues with turnovers. Dragic can play off he ball. I think he's a good fit for the sixers. Dragic is a good point guard.

For the nuggets he's definitely an upgrade over Jameer. It just depends on if they want to fight for the play offs.

Collison is a FA soon. There's no guarantee he'll resign with the Kings. I also think Dragic is an upgrade.

For the Magic, he's an upgrade over DJ. Payton is playing very well but Dragic can play alongside him IMO. Vucevic/bis can be traded in a separate trade for a SF upgrade. Jeff Green sucks. As far as cap space, I haven't looked at the 2017 FAs, but realistically speaking are they going to sign anyone better than Dragic? As long as their players are on good/decent contracts, they're tradable. So they can try to create cap space by moving Fournier/biz/DJ/vucevic if they feel its worth it. If they're going to sign a good FA they probably have to trade one of them anyway to open up playing time.

Wade n Fade
01-15-2017, 08:33 PM
And almost every one of those players was being shopped from their teams because they were looking to move them.

Doesn't change the fact that he pulled off major moves to build a contender. If it wasn't for Rasheed Wallace's dirty play, the Heat would've beaten the Pistons in a Game 7 and won 2 titles with Shaq. Riley is a consummate winner. He won in LA as well. Good thing he left the Knicks too.

5ass
01-15-2017, 08:42 PM
I'll also add the pelicans to the list of teams who could trade for Dragic. They have Tyreke's expiring. Holiday hasn't been very good. They could use another playmaker.

flea
01-15-2017, 10:54 PM
Good choice, better blow it up and start "the process." Winning games is overrated anyway unless you can play with your buddies.

Isn't the state of the NBA great when a team who just gave the most athletic center in the game a max contract (rightly or wrongly) is ready to just tank? Man, talk about must-see TV in the East yet again.

Dade County
01-15-2017, 11:03 PM
Worse part is now Dragic and Whiteside are on max deals. Dragic is going to be very hard to trade and will require taking a long term bad contract back,

:laugh2:

His contract is gold because it's under the old max. I mean seriously you are either playing around or you honestly just don't have enough info to be in this thread.

I mean it's already reported that teams want Dragic and his contract is a big bright spot.



and Whiteside isn't going to bring the haul that they think because of needing to salary match.

Just know that Pat won't be taken back any contracts that goes past this season. I'm not going to explain why, just do some research.

Also Whiteside is going anywhere unless Whiteside can pull of a package to get a Super Star. Other then that Riley doesn't really rebuild like other teams. Thats why this is going to be a very fast rebuild, but for some reason people don't seem to like that.

Crazy


Good choice, better blow it up and start "the process." Winning games is overrated anyway unless you can play with your buddies.

Isn't the state of the NBA great when a team who just gave the most athletic center in the game a max contract (rightly or wrongly) is ready to just tank? Man, talk about must-see TV in the East yet again.


It's a smart move to tank as soon as they didn't land KD. We have a 1st rd pick this season.

Pat Riley knows what he is doing.

5ass
01-15-2017, 11:29 PM
Good choice, better blow it up and start "the process." Winning games is overrated anyway unless you can play with your buddies.

Isn't the state of the NBA great when a team who just gave the most athletic center in the game a max contract (rightly or wrongly) is ready to just tank? Man, talk about must-see TV in the East yet again.
Resigning Whiteside was the right choice either way. Why let him go fir nothing when he can be your best trade asset?

flea
01-15-2017, 11:37 PM
Resigning Whiteside was the right choice either way. Why let him go fir nothing when he can be your best trade asset?

You missed the forest for the trees in my post. I only included that qualifier to make clear that whether the Whiteside contract was a good idea or not was not the point of my post. The point was that the league is in such a sorry state that the team who has just signed the most athletic center in his prime to a max contract is ready to tear it completely apart.

One could also argue that this isn't the way to build a franchise (though that Wade and Fade guy would certainly get his knickers in a knot) and cite the Spurs success in player development but that, again, is not the point of my post. The point is that a team that should be looking to get into the conference Finals after a signing like Whiteside is, instead, giving up. Willingly losing. Deciding not to compete for at least two calendar years.

That is beyond pathetic and it is why the NBA sucks right now.

5ass
01-15-2017, 11:55 PM
You missed the forest for the trees in my post. I only included that qualifier to make clear that whether the Whiteside contract was a good idea or not was not the point of my post. The point was that the league is in such a sorry state that the team who has just signed the most athletic center in his prime to a max contract is ready to tear it completely apart.

One could also argue that this isn't the way to build a franchise (though that Wade and Fade guy would certainly get his knickers in a knot) and cite the Spurs success in player development but that, again, is not the point of my post. The point is that a team that should be looking to get into the conference Finals after a signing like Whiteside is, instead, giving up. Willingly losing. Deciding not to compete for at least two calendar years.

That is beyond pathetic and it is why the NBA sucks right now.

Well Whiteside simply isn't even good enough to have them fighting for the play offs no matter how athletic he is. They're not going to be competitive this year no matter what. Extremely unlikely next year. He isn't very young either at 27. I don't think its a good idea to rebuild around him. Maybe Riley would handle it differently if Whiteside established himself as a legit star.

flea
01-16-2017, 12:10 AM
Well Whiteside simply isn't even good enough to have them fighting for the play offs no matter how athletic he is. They're not going to be competitive this year no matter what. Extremely unlikely next year. He isn't very young either at 27. I don't think its a good idea to rebuild around him. Maybe Riley would handle it differently if Whiteside established himself as a legit star.

Okay if you insist on making this a referendum on Riley's management I will state, as separate from my above argument that the way the league is structured is bad for competition, that re-signing Whiteside was a bad idea if that was all they were willing to do.

I don't personally think they'll get much value for him, at best a late 1st at the cost of sinking a few years and likely ruining the development of the young swingmen on their roster. So if the argument is that letting him walk gets you nothing, at least it doesn't get you 1-3 years of sunk costs which is what they're staring at. Maybe Riley thought Whiteside would be better, maybe he thought he could bilk a desperate GM. Who knows, but until that happens it was a bad strategy. Best case scenario they end up with another Shabazz Napier or Tyler Johnson, 2-4 more years of solid losing in a terrible conference, and even more lukewarm attendance for the flighty south Florida fans.

On the other hand, once he did re-sign Whiteside, he should have addressed the other glaring deficiencies on the roster. Their forwards are awful - ancient Udonis Haslem might be better than Winslow who is the only forward with any hope on the roster (and I say that as a Duke fan, but Winslow is raw and belongs at the back end of a rotation right now and he should have stayed in college). Their guards are terrible outside of Dragic - Waiters is literal trash and the Johnson and whoever development projects are clearly not ready. There was no way that roster would be able to compete unless Bosh was healthy, and it sounds like the Heat didn't want to even consider that a possibility so there's no excuse there.

Really there was no way he didn't end up here based on what he did. He re-signed a notoriously lazy but ultra-talented prime center and gave him a roster that only a handful of elite bigs in the history of the game could have made competitive. That's not even to mention how he's squandered Dragic's prime. He might as well hire Hinkie to lose professionally for him at this point.

5ass
01-16-2017, 12:28 AM
Okay if you insist on making this a referendum on Riley's management I will state, as separate from my above argument that the way the league is structured is bad for competition, that re-signing Whiteside was a bad idea if that was all they were willing to do.

I don't personally think they'll get much value for him, at best a late 1st at the cost of sinking a few years and likely ruining the development of the young swingmen on their roster. So if the argument is that letting him walk gets you nothing, at least it doesn't get you 1-3 years of sunk costs which is what they're staring at. Maybe Riley thought Whiteside would be better, maybe he thought he could bilk a desperate GM. Who knows, but until that happens it was a bad strategy. Best case scenario they end up with another Shabazz Napier or Tyler Johnson, 2-4 more years of solid losing in a terrible conference, and even more lukewarm attendance for the flighty south Florida fans.

On the other hand, once he did re-sign Whiteside, he should have addressed the other glaring deficiencies on the roster. Their forwards are awful - ancient Udonis Haslem might be better than Winslow who is the only forward with any hope on the roster (and I say that as a Duke fan, but Winslow is raw and belongs at the back end of a rotation right now and he should have stayed in college). Their guards are terrible outside of Dragic - Waiters is literal trash and the Johnson and whoever development projects are clearly not ready. There was no way that roster would be able to compete unless Bosh was healthy, and it sounds like the Heat didn't want to even consider that a possibility so there's no excuse there.

Really there was no way he didn't end up here based on what he did. He re-signed a notoriously lazy but ultra-talented prime center and gave him a roster that only a handful of elite bigs in the history of the game could have made competitive. That's not even to mention how he's squandered Dragic's prime. He might as well hire Hinkie to lose professionally for him at this point.

Ok I understand what you're saying, but the heat in particular won a couple of championships this decade. They still went to the play offs last year. They lost Bosh to a heart condition, and Wade in FA. Riley himself has said he ****ed up with Wade, and he should've resigned him. Riley could not get anyone good to sign. Should he sign a bad contract just to sign anyone? He was ultimately faced with two options. Either resign Whiteside or lose him for nothing. Whiteside is currently a good asset IMO that will fetch them way more than a late 1st. So why not resign him and trade him for something that will help long term? They're left with little choice but to rebuild right now.

Its normal for teams to suck after losing their core. One year, two years of tanking is okay. You gain assets (especially in the case of the heat who owe their pick next year to the suns) and reclaim capspace. In less than two years you have a couple of top 5 picks and other assets from the whiteside+dragic trades along with the young guys they have now. You also have a ton of cap space. Figure out which of thoe players you want to keep and trade the rest for vets. Riley himself has said he wants a "quick rebuild". I think you're assuming too much saying he's going to tank for 5 years.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 12:33 AM
We have the exact same amount of championships over the last 15 years. Ill take it.

Lebron has gone to the finals the last 2 years because the cavs were a dumpster fire for 4 years when he left and gave them 3 #1 picks, Tristan Thompson in the top 5, which gave talent around Lebron. You of all people being a Cavs fan should know just how poorly run the cavs have been. Not sure where anyone took away from his accomplishment.

You can argue Pat mishandled lebron. You could also argue Lebron lied and purposely misled and lied to Riley.
Again, not sure how Riley mishandled bosh. He cant play. And Wade getting 23 million at this age would have been a huge mistake to be out in the first or second round. Part of the reason we have won 3 championships and been to 6 conference championships is because we dont do what the Sacramento, Orlando's, etc do and be mediocre for a prolonged period of time. There is no point paying wade 23 million when we arent a championship contender. Its part of the reason we have been one of the most successful teams in the league for the last 15 years.

And if you expand that out to 18 years they have 5 championships.. Don't try to force your argument too much.

Yeah but at least I can acknowledge it...

Loyalty man, have you or Pat ever heard of it? Pat cares more about his ego than anything else. Hence why all the big 3 are no longer there.

You're so into history and numbers.. How about this one, heat have missed the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons.

HandsOnTheWheel
01-16-2017, 01:34 AM
Not even worth it. :)

ewing
01-16-2017, 07:21 AM
And if you expand that out to 18 years they have 5 championships.. Don't try to force your argument too much.

Yeah but at least I can acknowledge it...

Loyalty man, have you or Pat ever heard of it? Pat cares more about his ego than anything else. Hence why all the big 3 are no longer there.

You're so into history and numbers.. How about this one, heat have missed the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons.

No that's b/c the Spurs smoked them and Bron is a *****

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 08:34 AM
No that's b/c the Spurs smoked them and Bron is a *****

Nope, 100% Pat tried to strong arm all of them and they called his bluff.

mia1619
01-16-2017, 12:17 PM
Nope, 100% Pat tried to strong arm all of them and they called his bluff.

You're just straight up making things up for hyperbole. Lebron had met with and decided to go back to Cleveland before Riley even met with him, forced him to have a charade meeting where he and his crew were disrespectful and were watching the world cup rather than having any type of actual meeting. He then wouldnt return his phone calls and only called them minutes before the SI article came out.

Again, not sure what you wanted him to do with Chris Bosh when he cant play? They were going to let him try and play this season and they found another blood clot. How dare he run him out of town by not letting him die on the court!! What an ego!!!!

And you can argue we should have re-signed wade, but that turned out to be a great move. If bosh could have played, maybe we should have re-signed him, but without Bosh being able to play, why would we pay a 34 year old declining player for 25 million a year to be at best a 2nd round exit? And thats the very best considering we didnt have the cap space to re-sign wade, deng, and Joe Johnson from last years team.

mia1619
01-16-2017, 12:20 PM
And if you expand that out to 18 years they have 5 championships.. Don't try to force your argument too much.

Yeah but at least I can acknowledge it...

Loyalty man, have you or Pat ever heard of it? Pat cares more about his ego than anything else. Hence why all the big 3 are no longer there.

You're so into history and numbers.. How about this one, heat have missed the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons.

How's this one for numbers? Your hometown hero lebron spent his 4 best seasons in the league not on your team and needed to be taught how to win down here cause your franchise and city as a whole is such a loser city.

Or how about expanding out the heat's last 7 years compared to the Cavs franchise entire history. Loser fanbase, loser city, loser team.

Im sure all of this hate towards the heat has nothing to do with us embarrassing your franchise for 4 years straight and having your city's biggest sports icon decide to come to a non-depressing city in the middle of his prime.

mia1619
01-16-2017, 12:26 PM
You missed the forest for the trees in my post. I only included that qualifier to make clear that whether the Whiteside contract was a good idea or not was not the point of my post. The point was that the league is in such a sorry state that the team who has just signed the most athletic center in his prime to a max contract is ready to tear it completely apart.

One could also argue that this isn't the way to build a franchise (though that Wade and Fade guy would certainly get his knickers in a knot) and cite the Spurs success in player development but that, again, is not the point of my post. The point is that a team that should be looking to get into the conference Finals after a signing like Whiteside is, instead, giving up. Willingly losing. Deciding not to compete for at least two calendar years.

That is beyond pathetic and it is why the NBA sucks right now.

The NBA has never been more popular. Tanking isnt great, but teams are going to drift toward the path that is most worthwhile if they are going to lose. There is no point with the way basketball and the NBA works to be an 8 seed or just miss the playoffs every year. It's why teams like the Wizards and Kings stink every year. The NBA rewards losing big if you are going to lose. It stinks to watch from a fans perspective but it is the right thing to do.

The way to fix it is simply just make everyone who misses the playoffs gets the same chances at the #1 pick. But that also leads to teams purposely missing the playoffs to get a chance at the number 1 pick rather than getting swept in the first round. There is no perfect system, but the NBA is more popular than ever.

And the heat didnt decide not to compete for 2 years. We had a fairly solid roster, but Chris Bosh had a blood clot in his training camp physical when he was expected to be cleared to play, and from there everything unraveled.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 01:11 PM
How's this one for numbers? Your hometown hero lebron spent his 4 best seasons in the league not on your team and needed to be taught how to win down here cause your franchise and city as a whole is such a loser city.

Or how about expanding out the heat's last 7 years compared to the Cavs franchise entire history. Loser fanbase, loser city, loser team.

Im sure all of this hate towards the heat has nothing to do with us embarrassing your franchise for 4 years straight and having your city's biggest sports icon decide to come to a non-depressing city in the middle of his prime.

No need to get mad man.

The numbers are the Cavs are the CURRENT NBA champions and 1st in the Eastern conference while the heat sit in 14th place in the East and 29th place in the league with a whopping 11 wins on the season..

You would think that reality would serve up a big slice of humble pie, I guess reality just hasn't set in yet.

mia1619
01-16-2017, 01:17 PM
No need to get mad man.

The numbers are the Cavs are the CURRENT NBA champions and 1st in the Eastern conference while the heat sit in 14th place in the East and 29th place in the league with a whopping 11 wins on the season..

You would think that reality would serve up a big slice of humble pie, I guess reality just hasn't set in yet.

congrats. we were also the eastern conference elite for the better part of 10 years or so while you scooped up 4 different number 1 overall picks in what, 10 years? And 3 in 4 years along with another top 5 pick in Tristan Thompson? I'd certainly ****ing hope you'd finally be good after being the laughing stock of the sports universe for years, and the entire city of cleveland being the most pathetic sports city in the country.

No ones mad. I have more going on in my life than to have a message board affect me in any way. Your team and city are one of the worst franchises in the history of the nba.

Big Zo
01-16-2017, 01:37 PM
No need to get mad man.

The numbers are the Cavs are the CURRENT NBA champions and 1st in the Eastern conference while the heat sit in 14th place in the East and 29th place in the league with a whopping 11 wins on the season..

You would think that reality would serve up a big slice of humble pie, I guess reality just hasn't set in yet.

Cleveland is last year's champs, and it took a giant GS meltdown to achieve that. Congrats on your one lucky championship that most people won't remember after the next 4-5 years of Golden State's dynasty.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 01:40 PM
You're just straight up making things up for hyperbole. Lebron had met with and decided to go back to Cleveland before Riley even met with him, forced him to have a charade meeting where he and his crew were disrespectful and were watching the world cup rather than having any type of actual meeting. He then wouldnt return his phone calls and only called them minutes before the SI article came out.

Again, not sure what you wanted him to do with Chris Bosh when he cant play? They were going to let him try and play this season and they found another blood clot. How dare he run him out of town by not letting him die on the court!! What an ego!!!!

And you can argue we should have re-signed wade, but that turned out to be a great move. If bosh could have played, maybe we should have re-signed him, but without Bosh being able to play, why would we pay a 34 year old declining player for 25 million a year to be at best a 2nd round exit? And thats the very best considering we didnt have the cap space to re-sign wade, deng, and Joe Johnson from last years team.

You have your timelines all wrong, bud.

Pat Riley said in his post-season interview on June 19th 2014 the BIG 3 should "Stay the course and not run for the first open door" and "You've got to stay together if you've got the guts". Why the heck would you publicly challenge these 3 stars that by your own words had just taken your city/franchise to 4 straight finals?

That was a mistake by Pat, idc what you or any heat fan says.. There was no reason to do that, he e-mailed the big 3 instead of calling or meeting with them face to face.. Yet again another mistake, clear as day. The final straw is Riley and Arison balking at the idea of making LeBron the highest paid player on the heat.. Which he clearly deserved. All that contributed to losing LeBron, which ALL took place before your little "charade meeting" narrative. Pat's ego, got in his way. He thought he was so great he could just do and say whatever he wanted.. WRONG.

Next up is Wade.. Once LBJ left, you all paid Bosh his max/near max so he didn't go to the Rockets(he was dang close) because you couldn't lose 2 of the 3 stars in the same summer, talk about fail. Wade, took less for you. The following summer, there was talk of Wade leaving, because of you guessed it, money. You all pay Dragic his max/near max and again Wade took less for you. This past summer, AFTER Wade single handedly put the team on his back you all came to him offering a contract at the $8-$10 million range.. ARE YOU JOKING?!?! That is down right disrespectful to your franchises most prized player of all time or at least top 3 players. You all give Whitside is max/near max, miss out on KD then bring your offer up to Wade but Riley still had zero hand in the negotiating.. Yet again, lack of communication with a star player, are you seeing a trend here?

After all Wade did for you franchise and all the sacrifices he made, you all disrespect this man and show no loyalty to him at all.. Paying inferior players instead of him THREE SUMMERS IN A ROW! He didn't leave for a couple million to go to the Bulls, he left because you all don't deserve everything he did for you all and will never fully appreciate it, because there is not a humble bone in the heat fan base or the heat franchise.

Lastly, Bosh.. By your own account you say in another post "Chris Bosh had a blood clot in his training camp physical when he was expected to be cleared to play." So with your own words, how is it logical not to pay Wade when you just said it was the assumption Bosh was going to play, you make no sense..

After Bosh witnessed, first hand the mishandling of the other 2 parts of the BIG 3, the lack of communication continued with him. They said they tried to get a hold of Bosh and Bosh says they didn't.. From the heat's history, I think it's safe to say they didn't try very hard to get a hold of him, maybe one e-mail after a couple months? The biggest thing with Bosh, as far as Pat goes is he told the media Bosh's career with the heat was over and he was banned from the team to the media, after that failed physical.. That is SO unprofessional, your player should never have to find anything out through media, especially something that HUGE. Pat's ego is so big, and he has no respect, he didn't give a crap. If there wasn't a massive amount of cap relief to be had by completely cutting off Bosh, I guarantee you any franchise(including your cocky/arrogant heat) would work with a guy to figure out a better solution for player/team but they just wanted to treat the BIG 3 like trash, good job.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 01:42 PM
Cleveland is last year's champs, and it took a giant GS meltdown to achieve that. Congrats on your one lucky championship that most people won't remember after the next 4-5 years of Golden State's dynasty.

WRONG. It's history bud, Warriors blew a 3-1 lead, that's not going away anytime soon, weather your 2nd to last place team likes it or not.

Have some humble pie with your garbage team.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 01:44 PM
congrats. we were also the eastern conference elite for the better part of 10 years or so while you scooped up 4 different number 1 overall picks in what, 10 years? And 3 in 4 years along with another top 5 pick in Tristan Thompson? I'd certainly ****ing hope you'd finally be good after being the laughing stock of the sports universe for years, and the entire city of cleveland being the most pathetic sports city in the country.

No ones mad. I have more going on in my life than to have a message board affect me in any way. Your team and city are one of the worst franchises in the history of the nba.

WERE, key word here is WERE.. What are you right now? A dumpster fire!

Your team is 2nd worst in the NBA, RIGHT NOW! :laugh2: Keep reliving your glory days of the past, Al Bundy.

The "god father" you bow down to is a grease ball, lol

Vinylman
01-16-2017, 01:49 PM
It is going to be so awesome in 3-4 years when the Cavs are irrelevant again.

Big Zo
01-16-2017, 02:12 PM
WERE, key word here is WERE.. What are you right now? A dumpster fire!

Your team is 2nd worst in the NBA, RIGHT NOW! :laugh2: Keep reliving your glory days of the past, Al Bundy.

The "god father" you bow down to is a grease ball, lol

Cavs WERE last year's champs, AKA also the past.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 02:15 PM
Cavs WERE last year's champs, AKA also the past.

AKA they are the CURRENT NBA defending champs, get with the times bud. AKA they are CURRENTLY the 1st place team in the East.

The heat are garbage and it has not humbled a single one of you heat fans, it's truly astonishing.

Big Zo
01-16-2017, 02:24 PM
AKA they are the CURRENT NBA defending champs, get with the times bud. AKA they are CURRENTLY the 1st place team in the East.

The heat are garbage and it has not humbled a single one of you heat fans, it's truly astonishing.
Can't truly be a "Defending champ" when your team (and all other teams, for that matter) all have different players. This isn't boxing. And we don't need to be humble. We live happily in paradise, while those who live in, and around Cleveland depend on a basketball player to be happy, and to drive their local economy.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 02:42 PM
Can't truly be a "Defending champ" when your team (and all other teams, for that matter) all have different players. This isn't boxing. And we don't need to be humble. We live happily in paradise, while those who live in, and around Cleveland depend on a basketball player to be happy, and to drive their local economy.

Man, you're butt hurt. lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NBA_Finals"This was the defending NBA Champions Golden State Warriors' second consecutive trip to the NBA Finals and eighth overall."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NBA_Finals"The best-of-seven playoff was contested between the Los Angeles Lakers, champions of the Western Conference and defending NBA champions."

Man, you sure do sound foolish.

Would only be because it stays warm there year round lol Miami is the former cocaine capital of the the US.. Miami is one of the most violent cities in the US(due to drugs, of course).. While the rich are VERY rich in Miami, the poor are living on next to nothing(money wise) per day.. The wealth gap is astronomical, there is almost no middle class to speak of. Not to mention always at risk of tropical storms and hurricanes.. Yeah, "paradise" whatever you gotta tell yourself to make up for the heat being the 2nd worst team in the NBA :laugh2:

Big Zo
01-16-2017, 02:49 PM
Man, you're butt hurt. lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NBA_Finals"This was the defending NBA Champions Golden State Warriors' second consecutive trip to the NBA Finals and eighth overall."

Would only be because it stays warm there year round lol Miami is the former cocaine capital of the the US.. Miami is one of the most violent cities in the US(due to drugs, of course).. While the rich are VERY rich in Miami, the poor are living on next to nothing(money wise) per day.. The wealth gap is astronomical, there is almost no middle class to speak of. Not to mention always at risk of tropical storms and hurricanes.. Yeah, "paradise" whatever you gotta tell yourself to make up for the heat being the 2nd worst team in the NBA :laugh2:

Lol you know you'd rather live here, and not that middle earth that you're stuck in. Took that garbage organization like 500 years to finally win something. Congrats. Now watch the Cavs start another drought.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 02:53 PM
Lol you know you'd rather live here, and not that middle earth that you're stuck in. Took that garbage organization like 500 years to finally win something. Congrats. Now watch the Cavs start another drought.

I know your reading comprehension is very poor but I don't live in CLE, like I've told you before :up:

Have fun being arrogant your whole life, and also with that dumpster fire bottom feeder heat squad :laugh:

Big Zo
01-16-2017, 03:04 PM
I don't recall you saying you don't live there. But considering most of the teams in your sig are from Ohio, I assume you're from somewhere in or around that area. Either that, or you purposely root for crappy teams.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 03:09 PM
I don't recall you saying you don't live there. But considering most of the teams in your sig are from Ohio, I assume you're from somewhere in or around that area. Either that, or you purposely root for crappy teams.

Kinda like you do for the 2nd to last place heat? :laugh:

Big Zo
01-16-2017, 03:16 PM
Kinda like you do for the 2nd to last place heat? :laugh:

I root for my home team, and don't leech on to teams from other cities.

warfelg
01-16-2017, 03:25 PM
Kinda like you do for the 2nd to last place heat? :laugh:

Worse than the Sixers [emoji23]

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 03:34 PM
I root for my home team, and don't leech on to teams from other cities.

Let me just go ahead and root for the Cincinnati Royals who are now the Sacramento Kings and moved thousands of miles across the country or root for the Kentucky Colonels who ceased to exist the same year the ABA folded.. Sure thing bud, I'll get right on that :facepalm:

Big Zo
01-16-2017, 04:02 PM
Let me just go ahead and root for the Cincinnati Royals who are now the Sacramento Kings and moved thousands of miles across the country or root for the Kentucky Colonels who ceased to exist the same year the ABA folded.. Sure thing bud, I'll get right on that :facepalm:
So you are from Ohio. I never said you were specifically from Cleveland. Now who's reading comp skills suck?

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 05:33 PM
So you are from Ohio. I never said you were specifically from Cleveland. Now who's reading comp skills suck?

Still yours, I'm not from Ohio, lol tri-state, metropolitan area, ever heard of either?

Just focus on your 11 win heat, that is where your focus needs to be and no where else.

Big Zo
01-16-2017, 05:38 PM
Still yours, I'm not from Ohio, lol tri-state, metropolitan area, ever heard of either?

Just focus on your 11 win heat, that is where your focus needs to be and no where else.
Speak for yourself. Is this thread about your team?

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 05:45 PM
Speak for yourself. Is this thread about your team?
Nope but it's about a team that has a bunch of arrogant, self centered, sore loser fans and through 41 games this "great" team has won 11 games.. That is everyone on PSD's business, yet some how you and all other heat fans wanna talk about anything other than how garbage your team is.. You all will do anything to take the attention off your team having the 2nd worst record in the NBA.

You all walked around here dissing every fan base but now when it's your turn to get a dose of reality and MAYBE actually try to be humble you all cry and run around like chickens with your heads cut off because you can't even deal with the reality of how terrible your team is.

mia1619
01-16-2017, 08:43 PM
Nope but it's about a team that has a bunch of arrogant, self centered, sore loser fans and through 41 games this "great" team has won 11 games.. That is everyone on PSD's business, yet some how you and all other heat fans wanna talk about anything other than how garbage your team is.. You all will do anything to take the attention off your team having the 2nd worst record in the NBA.

You all walked around here dissing every fan base but now when it's your turn to get a dose of reality and MAYBE actually try to be humble you all cry and run around like chickens with your heads cut off because you can't even deal with the reality of how terrible your team is.
I really dont think a cavs fan has any right to be talking about crappy teams. they've been the laughing stock of the nba for 50 years and they wasted the first 8 years of Lebron's career, and it took you being gifted 3 number 1 overall picks and another top 5 pick in the time he spent his 4 best years in the NBA in miami for him to even consider wanting to go back to that hell hole.

I witnessed in person my team winning more championships in a 2 year period than the cavaliers have won in the history of their franchise. I'll gladly take a year like this when we have our first round pick, a year the cavs have had how many times in the last 15 years? , having watched my team win the title more in person (let alone total) than your ****** franchise has won in its entire history.

CITY OF LOSERS. And i know your loser city might find this a bit difficult to believe, most people dont pride themselves and base their lives off of how well a sports team is doing.

mia1619
01-16-2017, 08:45 PM
Continue to hate on miami cause you're butt hurt the best player in your franchises history spent the 4 best years of his career not on your team. Because it is more than obvious that you are beyond butt hurt that for the rest of time, Lebron spent his 4 best years in the nba and his first 2 titles in Miami, not hell on earth.

Clint Olbrock
01-16-2017, 09:03 PM
I really dont think a cavs fan has any right to be talking about crappy teams. they've been the laughing stock of the nba for 50 years and they wasted the first 8 years of Lebron's career, and it took you being gifted 3 number 1 overall picks and another top 5 pick in the time he spent his 4 best years in the NBA in miami for him to even consider wanting to go back to that hell hole.

I witnessed in person my team winning more championships in a 2 year period than the cavaliers have won in the history of their franchise. I'll gladly take a year like this when we have our first round pick, a year the cavs have had how many times in the last 15 years? , having watched my team win the title more in person (let alone total) than your ****** franchise has won in its entire history.

CITY OF LOSERS. And i know your loser city might find this a bit difficult to believe, most people dont pride themselves and base their lives off of how well a sports team is doing.

Yeah, thanks for making my point lol

This isn't about me, LeBron, Cavs, Cleveland or any other fan base.

This is about the heat being garbage, keep your focus there. That is your current reality, 2nd worst team in the NBA.. Deal with it.

mia1619
01-16-2017, 09:17 PM
Yeah, thanks for making my point lol

This isn't about me, LeBron, Cavs, Cleveland or any other fan base.

This is about the heat being garbage, keep your focus there. That is your current reality, 2nd worst team in the NBA.. Deal with it.

I'm more than ok with that. Id rather us rebuild than be an 8 seed. Your current reality is that I witnessed more championships in person in a 2 year period than your team has won in its entire history. You can continue to harp on the heat sucking, congrats, we also went to 4 straight finals with the pride of your entire city/state.

Your reality is that the best player in your franchises history played the 4 best years of his career in miami. loser city. loser franchise.

TylerSL
01-17-2017, 02:59 AM
Nope but it's about a team that has a bunch of arrogant, self centered, sore loser fans and through 41 games this "great" team has won 11 games.. That is everyone on PSD's business, yet some how you and all other heat fans wanna talk about anything other than how garbage your team is.. You all will do anything to take the attention off your team having the 2nd worst record in the NBA.

You all walked around here dissing every fan base but now when it's your turn to get a dose of reality and MAYBE actually try to be humble you all cry and run around like chickens with your heads cut off because you can't even deal with the reality of how terrible your team is.

I don't go around saying anything remotely close to your accusations. What I see is you being severely bitter about Miami though. You talk about being humble yet we all constantly see you bring nothing to the discussion but hate on the Miami Heat. This can't be your first account (since you can recall Heat fans being so "arrogant") but you've been on this one since Lebron returned to Cleveland.

If any Heat fan has done you wrong in the past (and that's a big if considering this is only an internet forum) then I would advise you to just stop worrying about us and enjoy Lebron while he's great (he REALLY REALLY is). You're not going to humble anyone, you're just trolling. It's been 2 and one half years since Lebron left Miami, at this point you are only doing more harm than good.