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Rivera
01-05-2017, 08:40 PM
Vertical Sources with @ShamsCharania: Atlanta is finalizing a deal to send guard Kyle Korver to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Would be a great addition for Cleveland

YAALREADYKNO
01-05-2017, 08:42 PM
Trade just went thru. What a pick up by the cavs

Avenged
01-05-2017, 08:42 PM
Adding another shooter. The rich get richer. I like this acquisition for them. At the end of the day, although premature, they are trying to beat the Warriors in the Finals.

aman_13
01-05-2017, 08:43 PM
Thanks Atlanta smh.

TO Rapz
01-05-2017, 08:43 PM
league over cavs dubs final

Avenged
01-05-2017, 08:49 PM
Not to mention playing with Lebron alone should elevate Korver's game even more. Open 3's for days! The more I think of it, Lebron, Kyrie, and Love all need to be accounted for at all times.. That's going to leave Korver out in the open a lot. May be exaggerating here but this is a HUGE acquisition for the Cavs.

LanceUpperCut
01-05-2017, 08:53 PM
What the hell ATL. What are they getting back?

koreancabbage
01-05-2017, 08:54 PM
It would be either Kyrie or Lebron facilitator and breaking down the D. Whip to the corner for open 3.


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BKLYNpigeon
01-05-2017, 08:57 PM
Great pick up!


http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-hawks-finalizing-deal-to-send-sharpshooter-kyle-korver-to-cavs/

Pfeifer
01-05-2017, 09:02 PM
Wtf? How?

effen5
01-05-2017, 09:02 PM
Bulls couldn't keep korver or MDJ and now the Cavs have both. #firegarpax

Giannis94
01-05-2017, 09:03 PM
Meh

mngopher35
01-05-2017, 09:05 PM
Not to mention playing with Lebron alone should elevate Korver's game even more. Open 3's for days! The more I think of it, Lebron, Kyrie, and Love all need to be accounted for at all times.. That's going to leave Korver out in the open a lot. May be exaggerating here but this is a HUGE acquisition for the Cavs.

Korver is definitely falling off but ya in this role he could still make a big impact (especially if he gets hot in the finals). Curry/Klay guarded by Kyrie/Korver might also make a big impact lol. At the very least I think it has the potential to make a difference in the finals so this was a very nice addition (yes, I am just assuming GS/Cle at this point).

Wade n Fade
01-05-2017, 09:06 PM
Great pick up!


http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-hawks-finalizing-deal-to-send-sharpshooter-kyle-korver-to-cavs/

Depends what the Cavs gave up. Atlanta is really desperate to get rid of Korver and Milsap.

warfelg
01-05-2017, 09:06 PM
Wonder what they gave up...

Chronz
01-05-2017, 09:09 PM
Is Atlanta tanking or something?

Redrum187
01-05-2017, 09:10 PM
Wow... I like Korver with LeBron. I'm curious to see who they gave up.

FlashBolt
01-05-2017, 09:12 PM
Korver is the best shooter LeBron will be playing with. That's scary.

FlashBolt
01-05-2017, 09:17 PM
I would think Cleveland will try to get rid of McRae here. He's a solid player to score points but is lacking elsewhere. I'm guessing Korver plays backup to Smith at this point.

kdspurman
01-05-2017, 09:20 PM
Korver is the best shooter LeBron will be playing with. That's scary.

Ever or this year? Ray Allen comes to mind if the former.
Great pickup for Cleveland tho

kdspurman
01-05-2017, 09:24 PM
Is Atlanta tanking or something?

Idk.. Millsap on the block too. So odd

ewing
01-05-2017, 09:25 PM
****ing hawks


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warfelg
01-05-2017, 09:26 PM
Looks like Dunleavy Jr to a third team VIA Atlanta

warfelg
01-05-2017, 09:27 PM
817180132322504704

warfelg
01-05-2017, 09:29 PM
817181020478902274

warfelg
01-05-2017, 09:31 PM
817181344929378305

Woah. GM LeBron James making moves.

LoveCaliFan
01-05-2017, 09:33 PM
I thought Mo retired?

aman_13
01-05-2017, 09:34 PM
So Milsap is next I guess.

Avenged
01-05-2017, 09:35 PM
817181344929378305

Woah. GM LeBron James making moves.

Yep, not to mention what the heck is a Cleveland 1st even worth??? I am not getting this for the Hawks.. But I am loving it as a fan in general due to the potential Cle vs. GS Finals matchup.

warfelg
01-05-2017, 09:36 PM
817181921792892928

warfelg
01-05-2017, 09:37 PM
So Milsap is next I guess.

Only thing I can think.

Chronz
01-05-2017, 09:37 PM
Had a feeling it was gonna be the let down of a white guy for the new white hope. Its funny, I thought I remember hearing that Atlanta was gonna bench Korver because hes been a let down but hes still raining 3's. Maybe hes declined defensively

warfelg
01-05-2017, 09:43 PM
817184366925324289

FlashBolt
01-05-2017, 09:48 PM
Kinda expected. Dunleavy has been terrible for the Cavs. No chemistry at all and just seems like he doesn't communicate with them at any point of the game.

Eagles4Lyfe
01-05-2017, 09:54 PM
A team with no assets keeps adding key role players, while Masai OveratedJiri keeps sitting on his ***. God he's so ****.

Blink
01-05-2017, 10:01 PM
Soon as I seen Korver was likely to be dealt..I knew Cleveland would end up with him lol

Its a good thing though. Clearly Cavs are head and shoulders above the East and GS in the West.

Already can't wait for this series because the Pistons are nothing to watch.

tredigs
01-05-2017, 10:02 PM
That is one hell of a steal. ****ing Hawks are you kidding me? They got back a "heavily protected Cavs pick in 2019". IE they just straight up gave the Cavs Kyle Korver for nothing.

Clint Olbrock
01-05-2017, 10:20 PM
817181020478902274

Do that to make trading our 2019 1st valid. Can't trade 1st in consecutive drafts.

More-Than-Most
01-05-2017, 10:26 PM
Holy **** this is a good move.

warfelg
01-05-2017, 10:29 PM
Do that to make trading our 2019 1st valid. Can't trade 1st in consecutive drafts.

You traded out your 2017 pick to Portland to get the 2019 back, which went to Atlanta. You still have your 2018 pick.

Vee-Rex
01-05-2017, 10:31 PM
I thought Mo retired?

Mo retired just by word only, and the team was ready to move on but he unretired suddenly. Then it was discovered that he had some kind of injury. He pretty much decided to unretire solely because of that. The Cavs organization and Mo are on terrible terms after that. He's pretty much shunned.

More-Than-Most
01-05-2017, 10:31 PM
This is just stupid... Korver has fallen off esp defensively but they get him for nothing lol... Hawks have to be tanking... This couldnt have been the best they were offered. This closes the gap some but I still have it like this

Warriors






Spurs


Cavs
Raptors

Clippers/Thunder/Rockets

Celtics

Vee-Rex
01-05-2017, 10:32 PM
Love the Korver deal. We just need a backup point guard and a depth center/big man.

More-Than-Most
01-05-2017, 10:38 PM
Love the Korver deal. We just need a backup point guard and a depth center/big man.

yup... Its a great deal... I just dont think they are as close to the warriors as people are making it out to be.. I think the raptors are closer to the cavs than the cavs are to the warriors... I dont think lebron/Kyrie can repeat what they did last year in the playoffs esp on defense and now the warriors have durant.... If the warriors dont fix their interior defense at the deadline then i might be a believer but i am a firm believer we will get klay for noel and lakers picks :hope:

Clint Olbrock
01-05-2017, 11:08 PM
yup... Its a great deal... I just dont think they are as close to the warriors as people are making it out to be.. I think the raptors are closer to the cavs than the cavs are to the warriors... I dont think lebron/Kyrie can repeat what they did last year in the playoffs esp on defense and now the warriors have durant.... If the warriors dont fix their interior defense at the deadline then i might be a believer but i am a firm believer we will get klay for noel and lakers picks :hope:

4-0 against the Warriros/Raptors and didn't even have a complete roster, yet some how we're the inferior team, lol good logic man.

Jamiecballer
01-05-2017, 11:12 PM
Warriors are still above the rest but Korver addition should shelve Raptors pursuit of Millsap imo.

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DarkKnight
01-05-2017, 11:33 PM
Warriors are still above the rest but Korver addition should shelve Raptors pursuit of Millsap imo.

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I agree , warriors are definitely the better team

More-Than-Most
01-05-2017, 11:41 PM
4-0 against the Warriros/Raptors and didn't even have a complete roster, yet some how we're the inferior team, lol good logic man.

The lakers were 2 and 0 over the warriors the last 2 years at one point... Lakers-------->Warriors? Its the regular season man.


Cavs are 0-2 against the bulls this year... Bulls----------->cavs?

Avenged
01-05-2017, 11:42 PM
It's crazy to think a team of LeBron, Kyrie, Love, and Korver are considered underdogs. Talk about 2 star studded teams. I'm sorry but I just don't see how the Raps even stand a chance..

tredigs
01-05-2017, 11:43 PM
4-0 against the Warriros/Raptors and didn't even have a complete roster, yet some how we're the inferior team, lol good logic man.

Warriors have the FAR better SRS and the #1 ranked offense + #1 ranked defense. There's no rational/non-homer argument against them as the top team right now, though it doesn't mean the Cavs can't play spoiler again.

More-Than-Most
01-05-2017, 11:45 PM
It's crazy to think a team of LeBron, Kyrie, Love, and Korver are considered underdogs. Talk about 2 star studded teams. I'm sorry but I just don't see how the Raps even stand a chance..

I really like the raptors as a team... But yea the cavs are better... Its not a knock on the cavs really they are amazing but the warriors are just better.

Clint Olbrock
01-05-2017, 11:49 PM
The lakers were 2 and 0 over the warriors the last 2 years at one point... Lakers-------->Warriors? Its the regular season man.


Cavs are 0-2 against the bulls this year... Bulls----------->cavs?
We were missing SIX players last night :facepalm: hence the need for the trades such as the one this thread is about...

Clint Olbrock
01-05-2017, 11:52 PM
Warriors have the FAR better SRS and the #1 ranked offense + #1 ranked defense. There's no rational/non-homer argument against them as the top team right now, though it doesn't mean the Cavs can't play spoiler again.

That's awesome bro, when Kyrie and LeBron get going like they did in the final 3 games of the 2016 NBA finals and the 4th quarter of the Christmas day game, good luck with whatever stat you want to pull..

Steph struggled ALL game and KD FLOPPED in the 4th quarter :drunk:

Jamiecballer
01-05-2017, 11:52 PM
We were missing SIX players last night :facepalm: hence the need for the trades such as the one this thread is about...
Would you be so kind as to list out the players you DID have available?

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WITZ
01-05-2017, 11:52 PM
We were missing SIX players last night :facepalm: hence the need for the trades such as the one this thread is about...

Why you arguing with someone who said he would take embid over KAT :laugh2:

tredigs
01-05-2017, 11:54 PM
That's awesome bro, when Kyrie and LeBron get going like they did in the final 3 games of the 2016 NBA finals and the 4th quarter of the Christmas day game, good luck with whatever stat you want to pull..

Steph struggled ALL game and KD FLOPPED in the 4th quarter :drunk:

Lol OK BRO. KD "flopped", so the NBA was also in on the conspiracy in admitting he was stepped-on/pushed? It was a home game for the Cavs, that's a game they SHOULD win. And it took a late comeback + luck to pull it off by 1. The Warriors have objectively been far better than the Cavs this season. But, you are a homer and a basketball infant from what posts I have seen, so I don't expect you to acknowledge this.

tredigs
01-05-2017, 11:56 PM
Why you arguing with someone who said he would take embid over KAT :laugh2:

That's not a ridiculous stance by any means. Not unless KAT develops defensively. If I knew Embiid could stay healthy I don't even think it's much of a debate to be honest. He looks like much more of a force than Towns. Problem is, that's still a big question mark for me.

More-Than-Most
01-05-2017, 11:59 PM
Why you arguing with someone who said he would take embid over KAT :laugh2:

Hows Kats defense compared to embiids? I can tell you they are worlds apart even now with Embiid being a rookie and kat being a 2nd year player... Now how was Towns offensive game in comparison to towns his rookie year? People laughed at first because of Embiids health... Now alot more people are asking this question and giving this answer... Not my fault other people cant see the guys potential

More-Than-Most
01-06-2017, 12:00 AM
That's not a ridiculous stance by any means. Not unless KAT develops defensively. If I knew Embiid could stay healthy I don't even think it's much of a debate to be honest. He looks like much more of a force than Towns. Problem is, that's still a big question mark for me.

yup... I worry about his health every day... Will for the next few years. Towns is the safer choice by far... I just think the sixers have the high ceiling player and should live or die with him.

More-Than-Most
01-06-2017, 12:01 AM
That's awesome bro, when Kyrie and LeBron get going like they did in the final 3 games of the 2016 NBA finals and the 4th quarter of the Christmas day game, good luck with whatever stat you want to pull..

Steph struggled ALL game and KD FLOPPED in the 4th quarter :drunk:

I hate KD and the warriors but KD was fouled lol

Clint Olbrock
01-06-2017, 12:01 AM
Would you be so kind as to list out the players you DID have available?

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Sure.

Starters: Jordan McRae, DeAndre Liggins, LeBron James, Channing Frye, Tristan Thompson

Bench: Kay Felder, Iman Shumpert, Richard Jefferson, James Jones

Pretty well known starting back court, huh?

tredigs
01-06-2017, 12:04 AM
I hate KD and the warriors but KD was fouled lol

Lol well it was clear as day. You couldn't have seen the replay and think otherwise. I didn't ***** about it though and frankly didn't really care. Those calls are hard to get in that spot. RJ used to pull that crap all the time in his brief Warriors stint.

Clint Olbrock
01-06-2017, 12:05 AM
Lol OK BRO. KD "flopped", so the NBA was also in on the conspiracy in admitting he was stepped-on/pushed? It was a home game for the Cavs, that's a game they SHOULD win. And it took a late comeback + luck to pull it off by 1. The Warriors have objectively been far better than the Cavs this season. But, you are a homer and a basketball infant from what posts I have seen, so I don't expect you to acknowledge this.
KD went 2/9 in the 4th quarter and 0/5 in the final 9 minutes.. Conspiracy that, genius.

The fact that you call me an infant but don't know what a final 2 minute report is, cute.

73-9 blew a 3-1 lead, so IDC how the Warriors have looked against other teams this season, lol

Checkmate.

More-Than-Most
01-06-2017, 12:06 AM
Its the bulls of this last 16 years.... Not the bulls of the 90s... The cavs should have won period. I am not saying the bulls are better... I am saying its a stupid stance to think because the cavs are 2-0 against a team in the regular season they are the better team.... Does this mean the cavs will lose? No.. Hell no but as easy as it is to give the excuses you are the warriors have legit reasons as well... Dray being suspended... Curry healthy... Bogut hurt and Kyrie/Lebron being other worldly on both ends of the floor to squeak out a series win in 7 games... Thats alot to happen for them to get that championship and that is without having Durant... I hope the cavs win the next 5 championships because they are my favorite team outside of the sixers but Kyrie looks like the kyrie of pre playoff basketball like we assumed.. I cant rely on the defense he played last year when he is right back to being **** on defense this year.

More-Than-Most
01-06-2017, 12:07 AM
Lol well it was clear as day. You couldn't have seen the replay and think otherwise. I didn't ***** about it though and frankly didn't really care. Those calls are hard to get in that spot. RJ used to pull that crap all the time in his brief Warriors stint.

I ***** about the refs not because of the missed calls... I can deal with missed calls all day... I hate the refs because of when they decide to swallow the whistle... A quarter earlier and Durant goes to the line 10/10 times. Its so so stupid and it bothers me so much lol... A foul is a foul nomatter when it happens but the NBA feels differently and its ****ing dumb and part of the reason is because of the tools running **** and the ex players like stupid *** reggie miller saying you need to let the players decide the game even though this ****ing logic gives an unfair advantage to the defense because defenders know they can do any and everything except draymond someone and it wont be a foul on a last second shot.

tredigs
01-06-2017, 12:10 AM
KD went 2/9 in the 4th quarter and 0/5 in the final 9 minutes.. Conspiracy that, genius.

The fact that you call me an infant but don't know what a final 2 minute report is, cute.

73-9 blew a 3-1 lead, so IDC how the Warriors have looked against other teams this season, lol

Checkmate.

I don't know what a 2 minute report is, yet I just explained to you that the 2 minute report admitted they made a mistake in not calling that foul you deem a "flop". Don't get too used to the NBA hooking the Cavs up in crucial moments (or against crucial Warrior players), there is likely some regression to the mean coming. GL in this years Finals (didn't realize you were still stuck on last season, I forgot about 2 years ago a while ago).

30-5 > 26-8
11.76 SRS >>> 6.95 SRS
#1 Offense + #1 Defense >>> #4 Offense + #13 Defense

The Warriors are playing the better basketball, and by a significant margin.

More-Than-Most
01-06-2017, 12:10 AM
KD went 2/9 in the 4th quarter and 0/5 in the final 9 minutes.. Conspiracy that, genius.

The fact that you call me an infant but don't know what a final 2 minute report is, cute.

73-9 blew a 3-1 lead, so IDC how the Warriors have looked against other teams this season, lol

Checkmate.

so you dont care about using other facts and logic... Gotcha no need to continue... If the shoe doesnt fit push until it fits am I right?

More-Than-Most
01-06-2017, 12:11 AM
FML I need to get the **** out of here... I am gonna commit psd suicide arguing for the ****ing warriors... I feel so dirty. I am only suppose to like klay dammit. I am out

TO Rapz
01-06-2017, 12:12 AM
This is just stupid... Korver has fallen off esp defensively but they get him for nothing lol... Hawks have to be tanking... This couldnt have been the best they were offered. This closes the gap some but I still have it like this

Warriors






Spurs


Cavs
Raptors

Clippers/Thunder/Rockets

Celtics

I have it like this.

Cavs, Warriors, Spurs

Raps, Clippers, Rockets, Celtics

The Raps and Cavs are not in the same tier. The first 3 are the only true contenders. Makes the NBA kinda annoying.

tredigs
01-06-2017, 12:12 AM
FML I need to get the **** out of here... I am gonna commit psd suicide arguing for the ****ing warriors... I feel so dirty. I am only suppose to like klay dammit. I am out

:laugh2::laugh2:

BKLYNpigeon
01-06-2017, 12:18 AM
Good depth for Cavs, but Korver is such a Liability on defense. Especially against the Warriors. he won't be closing out many games.

Clint Olbrock
01-06-2017, 12:18 AM
I don't know what a 2 minute report is, yet I just explained to you that the 2 minute report admitted they made a mistake in not calling that foul you deem a "flop". Don't get too used to the NBA hooking the Cavs up in crucial moments (or against crucial Warrior players), there is likely some regression to the mean coming. GL in this years Finals (didn't realize you were still stuck on last season, I forgot about 2 years ago a while ago).

30-5 > 26-8
11.76 SRS >>> 6.95 SRS
#1 Offense + #1 Defense >>> #4 Offense + #13 Defense

The Warriors are playing the better basketball, and by a significant margin.

You act like the NBA made a special exception for you and came out and said something, lol EVERY game has a final 2 minute report published, lol

I said FLOPPED, as in 2/9 for a quarter and 0/5 in the final 9 minutes of said quarter is pretty garbage, especially when you managed to shoot 9/14 through the other 3 quarters of said game...

Aw yeah, don't even mention Steph being locked down by DeAndre :censored: Liggins, lol

I was unaware the Warriors played the Cavs 35 times this season, good to know.

tredigs
01-06-2017, 12:26 AM
You act like the NBA made a special exception for you and came out and said something, lol EVERY game has a final 2 minute report published, lol

I said FLOPPED, as in 2/9 for a quarter and 0/5 in the final 9 minutes of said quarter is pretty garbage, especially when you managed to shoot 9/14 through the other 3 quarters of said game...

Aw yeah, don't even mention Steph being locked down by DeAndre :censored: Liggins, lol

I was unaware the Warriors played the Cavs 35 times this season, good to know.

So 1 game played at home in a game you won by a point in a controversial finish is how you determine the best over the course of the season? Gotchya. Quite the BBIQ you've got there I must say.

By the way, the trolly term you are going for is "choked" big guy.

Clint Olbrock
01-06-2017, 12:38 AM
So 1 game played at home in a game you won by a point in a controversial finish is how you determine the best over the course of the season? Gotchya. Quite the BBIQ you've got there I must say.

By the way, the trolly term you are going for is "choked" big guy.

Flop- (of a performer or show) be completely unsuccessful; fail totally.

Flopped is what I meant, why I said it, "big guy". You are just so stuck on one play so you ASSUMED that is what I was referencing. When I clearly said 4th quarter not final play of the game :facepalm: reading comprehension, "big guy", try it sometime.

BBIQ- Based on a player’s court awareness, anticipation, defense, and offense.

Not sure what my BBIQ has to do with determining the best team in the NBA, but sure thing bud :up:

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 01:31 AM
The Warriors obviously have the better numbers and are playing better in the regular season. That doesn't mean jack **** in the playoffs, though.

kobe4thewinbang
01-06-2017, 01:36 AM
Well, that clears up any confusion on the Hawks' plans. Millsap saw the writing on the wall with Horford leaving, losing Demarre Carroll, trading Teague for Shroeder, etc. Shame, too. I guess we'll see what Bud is made out of with this new look Hawks team. Korver was lighting it up a couple years ago, but he's hit a rough patch since last season. Not sure how he's doing this season, but Hawks made a decent move by not waiting until he really stinks. I dunno how a guy loses his 3PT touch. Ray Allen had that cold streak, but I can't see it ever happening to Steph or Klay.

More-Than-Most
01-06-2017, 01:56 AM
The Warriors obviously have the better numbers and are playing better in the regular season. That doesn't mean jack **** in the playoffs, though.

nor does how lebron and kyrie played last playoffs mean **** in these upcoming playoffs... or how the cavs beat the warriors in the regular season and how they beat the raptors... That is the points we are making... regular season means ****... the warriors are better... you are basically making our arguments that the other guy is negating :shrug:

LA_Raiders
01-06-2017, 02:01 AM
Cavs getting a washed out player which averages 9pts per game. Hell of a deal!

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 02:52 AM
nor does how lebron and kyrie played last playoffs mean **** in these upcoming playoffs... or how the cavs beat the warriors in the regular season and how they beat the raptors... That is the points we are making... regular season means ****... the warriors are better... you are basically making our arguments that the other guy is negating :shrug:

They're better in the regular season - which is my point. Each of the last two playoffs they looked far more human and I honestly don't think that's a coincidence.

Adding Durant is incredible but he hasn't been the most reliable playoff performer himself, at least not offensively. Diminishing returns is real, and if those guys underperform (or choke) come playoffs then they may not even reach the finals.

More-Than-Most
01-06-2017, 03:11 AM
They're better in the regular season - which is my point. Each of the last two playoffs they looked far more human and I honestly don't think that's a coincidence.

Adding Durant is incredible but he hasn't been the most reliable playoff performer himself, at least not offensively. Diminishing returns is real, and if those guys underperform (or choke) come playoffs then they may not even reach the finals.

lol this is what we are saying as well though... i think alot of their performance falling off is they are playing better defense and how much basketball they are playing... its why lebron coasts now... curry will now do the same with durant there... that is a big deal.

Nobody is diminishing the cavs and what they did... **** happens much like the first go around with how hurt the cavs were... just by the stats and paper the warriors are by far better... the best team doesnt always win so i wouldnt look past the spurs/raptors/cavs/clippers or even a celtics team once they make a trade.

mrblisterdundee
01-06-2017, 03:18 AM
Wonder what they gave up...

Mike Dunleavy Jr. and a 2019 first-round pick. This is an unadulterated win by the Cavaliers.

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 03:32 AM
Mike Dunleavy Jr. and a 2019 first-round pick. This is an unadulterated win by the Cavaliers.

I hate giving up the 1st rounder but... Korver was a good pickup.

Fun fact: Channing Frye is the #2 leading spot-up shooter with 1.53pps.

The #1 spot-up shooter in the NBA is... yup, you guessed it! Kyle Korver at 1.55pps lol.

IKnowHoops
01-06-2017, 05:10 AM
This is just stupid... Korver has fallen off esp defensively but they get him for nothing lol... Hawks have to be tanking... This couldnt have been the best they were offered. This closes the gap some but I still have it like this

Warriors






Spurs


Cavs
Raptors

Clippers/Thunder/Rockets

Celtics

Oh my.

You underestimate Bron. In the playoffs Bron stays in supers Saiyan

Kyrie (if freaking healthy) and Lebron will both ball up again. They will probably be even more dominant because they are both smarter players together. You add in that Love in back to T-Wolves Love, the Cavs are right there with GS. Its close. Dubs have a grip of talent. Cavs have almost as much talent but they also have LeZues. And when he goes into High-Father mode, he can match any team in game changing plays. Gonna be a great series for sure if everyone is healthy.

IKnowHoops
01-06-2017, 05:15 AM
Warriors have the FAR better SRS and the #1 ranked offense + #1 ranked defense. There's no rational/non-homer argument against them as the top team right now, though it doesn't mean the Cavs can't play spoiler again.

True true, but the gear that Bron kicks it into in the playoffs...the gear that doesn't get a whiff of playing time in the regular season...that gear wills the Cavs to even against the Warriors. The Cavs are just a much better team in the playoffs mainly because Bron goes all out and make super human plays all series to negate much of the talent discrepancy.

More-Than-Most
01-06-2017, 05:23 AM
Oh my.

You underestimate Bron. In the playoffs Bron stays in supers Saiyan

Kyrie (if freaking healthy) and Lebron will both ball up again. They will probably be even more dominant because they are both smarter players together. You add in that Love in back to T-Wolves Love, the Cavs are right there with GS. Its close. Dubs have a grip of talent. Cavs have almost as much talent but they also have LeZues. And when he goes into High-Father mode, he can match any team in game changing plays. Gonna be a great series for sure if everyone is healthy.

I hope youre right... I am not doubting the offense of Kyrie and Bron even though you saying they will be better is just silly when you factor in the historic level of play... That being said its their defense... Kyrie is a bad defender... Bron is getting older... If they want to win another championship its going to be because of Love and the bench of korver/Frye/TT/Jefferson... If these guys are bad its a wrap.

Captain Moroni
01-06-2017, 09:28 AM
Thank goodness the West is fun to watch, because the EC is a joke

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 10:09 AM
I hope youre right... I am not doubting the offense of Kyrie and Bron even though you saying they will be better is just silly when you factor in the historic level of play... That being said its their defense... Kyrie is a bad defender... Bron is getting older... If they want to win another championship its going to be because of Love and the bench of korver/Frye/TT/Jefferson... If these guys are bad its a wrap.

Kyrie is a much better defender in the playoffs. All advanced metrics reflect this.

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 10:10 AM
Thank goodness the West is fun to watch, because the EC is a joke

That's so 2015, bruh

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 10:37 AM
I'm confused by Atlanta's front office here. A few months ago, they sign an aging veteran in Dwight Howard to a 3-year, $70 million deal, I believe all of which is guaranteed. Now, not even halfway through the season, they're looking for a fire sale of all their quality veteran players who are about to be free agents? What's the end game here?

And it's not like this Hawks team is a total train wreck. They've absolutely had a roller coaster season, but they've won five in a row and they're sitting in fourth freaking place in the East right now with 46 games left to play. If the core sticks together and learns to gel over the course of the season, this team could certainly nab a spot in the top 4 teams in the East and possibly make a little playoff run.

So... I guess I just don't get it. For Cleveland, this seems like a huge win. They get a sharpshooter for guys who aren't solid contributors right now and a protected first rounder two years from now. But maybe that was the key? Maybe Atlanta was offered a first rounder for a player who might have already been on his way out this summer, and they couldn't pass it up? If that's the case, then I guess it makes more sense. But if they deal Millsap and Sefolosha in the next few weeks, I'm really going to be confused. I've just never seen a team give up so quickly on a core they put together when they were in a position to make a playoff run less than halfway through the season.

prodigy
01-06-2017, 10:47 AM
Korver is definitely falling off but ya in this role he could still make a big impact (especially if he gets hot in the finals). Curry/Klay guarded by Kyrie/Korver might also make a big impact lol. At the very least I think it has the potential to make a difference in the finals so this was a very nice addition (yes, I am just assuming GS/Cle at this point).

Korver is Shooting 41% from three this season and 50% open shoots from three. Yes thats not the 49% he had two seasons ago but the team isn't nearly as good either. He's gonna be open so much with the Cavs and if he's not open that means Lebron, kyrie and Love will have a much easier team going 1 on 1. love it, He's like a more controlled JR Smith.

GodsSon
01-06-2017, 10:49 AM
Another chip for LeBron incoming.

prodigy
01-06-2017, 10:52 AM
Kyrie is a much better defender in the playoffs. All advanced metrics reflect this.

Irving is not nearly as bad of a defender as people make him out to be. I get it, before lebron Irving didn't give much effort on defense because it was kinda pointless. But since this team has been contending Irvings defense is much better. He's not great or anything, but hes solid. I mean he just had 7 steals a few games back lol.

ewing
01-06-2017, 12:12 PM
lets once again thank LeBron for creating this team up mentality that is ruining the league. Why even have a season? Baring injury there are only two teams that can win. Just have them play now.

mike44
01-06-2017, 12:25 PM
Makes sense for both teams. Korver lost his starting spot to thabo and hardaway has been outplaying him recently. Plus hawks want to give bembry some more playing time. Good get for the cavs, Korver will be getting open looks all day, but they were probably the only team willing to give up a first for a half year of Korver. Good deal all around.

aman_13
01-06-2017, 12:38 PM
I read one tweet that the Hawks prefer to trade Milsap to the West lol.

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 12:39 PM
lets once again thank LeBron for creating this team up mentality that is ruining the league. Why even have a season? Baring injury there are only two teams that can win. Just have them play now.

lol. You realize that Korver was traded, right? It's one thing to get upset over this when something like Durant signing with the Warriors happens last summer, but complaining about it when a competent role player gets traded to a contender in the middle of the season seems pretty asinine.

Hawkeye15
01-06-2017, 12:41 PM
lol. You realize that Korver was traded, right? It's one thing to get upset over this when something like Durant signing with the Warriors happens last summer, but complaining about it when a competent role player gets traded to a contender in the middle of the season seems pretty asinine.

he hates everything about LeBron. Be what it be

Durant pulled the pussiest move I can ever remember.

ewing
01-06-2017, 12:49 PM
lol. You realize that Korver was traded, right? It's one thing to get upset over this when something like Durant signing with the Warriors happens last summer, but complaining about it when a competent role player gets traded to a contender in the middle of the season seems pretty asinine.


The Hawks are a middle of the road team, if two franchises hadn't completely distanced themselves from the pack b/c they had superstars team up no way this type of move happens. The Hawks don't hand Kover to the best team in the East if there is any competitive balance

ewing
01-06-2017, 12:50 PM
he hates everything about LeBron. Be what it be

Durant pulled the pussiest move I can ever remember.

I agree completely. At least Bron had the balls to do it first

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 01:00 PM
The Hawks are a middle of the road team, if two franchises hadn't completely distanced themselves from the pack b/c they had superstars team up no way this type of move happens. The Hawks don't hand Kover to the best team in the East if there is any competitive balance

That's a HUGE stretch you're trying to make there chief. First off, the Hawks would be a middle of the road team regardless of how good the rest of the league was, and any Cavs team with Lebron would still be dominating the East regardless of who else was on the roster. Atlanta's decision to trade Korver to the Cavs has literally nothing to do with that.

But this idea of yours that Lebron is somehow responsible for other players deciding they want to play together is totally ludicrous. Since the beginning of free agency, Lebron is hardly the first player to join other good players and want to win a championship. He's just the most high profile case because he happened to be the best player in the league when he did it.

Seriously, though, why does Lebron making that decision somehow impact other players' decisions? Did Lebron force Durant to sign with Golden State? Did he force Nash to sign with that Kobe, Pau, Dwight Lakers squad or Aldridge to sign with the Spurs? No. Each player is responsible for his own choices. Blaming Lebron for that is totally insane.

tredigs
01-06-2017, 01:01 PM
True true, but the gear that Bron kicks it into in the playoffs...the gear that doesn't get a whiff of playing time in the regular season...that gear wills the Cavs to even against the Warriors. The Cavs are just a much better team in the playoffs mainly because Bron goes all out and make super human plays all series to negate much of the talent discrepancy.

No argument from me there, though I think GS can peak higher on both sides of the ball in the playoffs also. I'd agree with it being a pretty close series where injuries and/or suspensions could be the make or break again if that happens.

ewing
01-06-2017, 01:17 PM
That's a HUGE stretch you're trying to make there chief. First off, the Hawks would be a middle of the road team regardless of how good the rest of the league was, and any Cavs team with Lebron would still be dominating the East regardless of who else was on the roster. Atlanta's decision to trade Korver to the Cavs has literally nothing to do with that.

But this idea of yours that Lebron is somehow responsible for other players deciding they want to play together is totally ludicrous. Since the beginning of free agency, Lebron is hardly the first player to join other good players and want to win a championship. He's just the most high profile case because he happened to be the best player in the league when he did it.

Seriously, though, why does Lebron making that decision somehow impact other players' decisions? Did Lebron force Durant to sign with Golden State? Did he force Nash to sign with that Kobe, Pau, Dwight Lakers squad or Aldridge to sign with the Spurs? No. Each player is responsible for his own choices. Blaming Lebron for that is totally insane.

there are only two teams completing for a title and each have a MVP caliber player that left a contending team to create a super team. That is not comparable to other players you mentioned.

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 01:38 PM
there are only two teams completing for a title and each have a MVP caliber player that left a contending team to create a super team. That is not comparable to other players you mentioned.

But there have been super teams throughout history. The only different today is that players actually have the ability to choose where they play basketball. And why is it so horrible that players want to play with guys they like in bigger media markets and want to win championships? When we judge players in all-time conversations on PSD, isn't championships one of the first barometers we use to judge players? And now we're going to criticize athletes for wanting to win because of the insane expectations that fans (like us) and the media have put on them to succeed in the postseason? That's totally backwards!

I wasn't in love with what Lebron did at the time, and I still don't like what Durant did. But I don't think it's fair to criticize someone for where they want to work. If you could make the same amount of money you make today, but work in a place that made you happier and where you feel like your impact would leave a greater legacy in the world, I wouldn't criticize you for taking that new job. Why should we treat professional athletes any different?

FlashBolt
01-06-2017, 01:43 PM
If you're hating on this deal, it's because you're just biased. Everyone wants Korver on their team. He's probably the best shooter in uncontested shots. His catch-and-shoot ability is also at elite efficiency. There's no doubt Korver will make them a better team and that's what these moves are intended to do. Secondly, Kyrie+LeBron in the playoffs turn it up a notch.. thought I'd let that piece of information be known.

At this point, I don't see any team outside the Warriors beating the Cavs. Spurs are always great but they have a bigger problem than LeBron and that's Kyrie. Whereas they could expose LeBron by forcing Wade to make plays, Kyrie can dominate in ways Wade could never against them. Clippers are finished. They'll just choke it away.

ewing
01-06-2017, 01:45 PM
But there have been super teams throughout history. The only different today is that players actually have the ability to choose where they play basketball. And why is it so horrible that players want to play with guys they like in bigger media markets and want to win championships? When we judge players in all-time conversations on PSD, isn't championships one of the first barometers we use to judge players? And now we're going to criticize athletes for wanting to win because of the insane expectations that fans (like us) and the media have put on them to succeed in the postseason? That's totally backwards!

I wasn't in love with what Lebron did at the time, and I still don't like what Durant did. But I don't think it's fair to criticize someone for where they want to work. If you could make the same amount of money you make today, but work in a place that made you happier and where you feel like your impact would leave a greater legacy in the world, I wouldn't criticize you for taking that new job. Why should we treat professional athletes any different?

You can defend them all you want. I am just saying they completely distanced themselves from the rest of the league by teaming up with other superstars. That didn't happen before. Yeah, there have been other great teams but the gap wasn't this big and its b/c of these guys teaming up. Charles Barkley didn't go play with Micheal Jordan. Isiah Thomas didn't go play with Larry Bird. I only give a **** about me being entertained. LeBron and Durrant have made the reg season and even the playoff pretty much meaningless.

mia1619
01-06-2017, 01:50 PM
Gotta give David Griffin credit. Granted he had a lot of help from lebron leaving in the first place and allowing them to stink and get thompson, irving, Love (thru Wiggins) in the first place, but he has done a great job with these other little trades throughout the year. From Shumpert, Smith, Frye, Korver, plus good minimum player signings, Griffin has put a great team around Lebron unlike Lebron's first stint there when management failed him.

ewing
01-06-2017, 02:06 PM
I'm confused by Atlanta's front office here. A few months ago, they sign an aging veteran in Dwight Howard to a 3-year, $70 million deal, I believe all of which is guaranteed. Now, not even halfway through the season, they're looking for a fire sale of all their quality veteran players who are about to be free agents? What's the end game here?

And it's not like this Hawks team is a total train wreck. They've absolutely had a roller coaster season, but they've won five in a row and they're sitting in fourth freaking place in the East right now with 46 games left to play. If the core sticks together and learns to gel over the course of the season, this team could certainly nab a spot in the top 4 teams in the East and possibly make a little playoff run.

So... I guess I just don't get it. For Cleveland, this seems like a huge win. They get a sharpshooter for guys who aren't solid contributors right now and a protected first rounder two years from now. But maybe that was the key? Maybe Atlanta was offered a first rounder for a player who might have already been on his way out this summer, and they couldn't pass it up? If that's the case, then I guess it makes more sense. But if they deal Millsap and Sefolosha in the next few weeks, I'm really going to be confused. I've just never seen a team give up so quickly on a core they put together when they were in a position to make a playoff run less than halfway through the season.


I agree it almost like they said **** it. We can't beat Clev, even if they get hurt and something falls in our lap no way we ever beat Clev. Maybe in two years Bron breaks down.

ewing
01-06-2017, 02:07 PM
Gotta give David Griffin credit. Granted he had a lot of help from lebron leaving in the first place and allowing them to stink and get thompson, irving, Love (thru Wiggins) in the first place, but he has done a great job with these other little trades throughout the year. From Shumpert, Smith, Frye, Korver, plus good minimum player signings, Griffin has put a great team around Lebron unlike Lebron's first stint there when management failed him.

we agree for once. They have targeted the right type of role players.

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 02:07 PM
Gotta give David Griffin credit. Granted he had a lot of help from lebron leaving in the first place and allowing them to stink and get thompson, irving, Love (thru Wiggins) in the first place, but he has done a great job with these other little trades throughout the year. From Shumpert, Smith, Frye, Korver, plus good minimum player signings, Griffin has put a great team around Lebron unlike Lebron's first stint there when management failed him.

Yeah, Griff gets almost no credit and he deserves a lot of it. Seems like most people don't know who he is (and attribute former Cavs GM Chris Grant's stupid Anthony Bennett draft pick) to Griffin. DG has been making good moves all throughout his tenure here in Cleveland.

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 02:10 PM
You can defend them all you want. I am just saying they completely distanced themselves from the rest of the league by teaming up with other superstars. That didn't happen before. Yeah, there have been other great teams but the gap wasn't this big and its b/c of these guys teaming up. Charles Barkley didn't go play with Micheal Jordan. Isiah Thomas didn't go play with Larry Bird. I only give a **** about me being entertained. LeBron and Durrant have made the reg season and even the playoff pretty much meaningless.
lol. Larry Bird didn't need Isiah Thomas because he had McHale and Parish. MJ didn't need Barkley because he had Pippen. Those Celtics and Bulls are among the greatest teams in the history of professional sports and they had multiple Hall of Famers on their rosters. The only difference between those teams then and these teams today is that players have more say in where they play than they used to, and the athletes are determining the success of the franchises as much as the front offices are. What's wrong with that?

Also, you say that entertainment is your top priority and act like the league is less interesting with super teams. History and ratings would prove you wrong, my friend. The league finally started gaining popularity in the 80s because of the Lakers/Celtics super teams and the league's ability to market those stars. Whether it's MJ's Bulls, the Kobe/Shaq Lakers or this Warriors/Cavs rivalry, the league has been far more successful when it's had 1-2 dominant teams than when a new team is winning the championship every year. You might like parity more, but I assure you that it's not better for the league.

So basically your argument boils down to "Lebron ruined the league because more star players are actually choosing where they want to play basketball, and I personally, don't think the league is entertaining with super teams." You're certainly entitled to your opinion, chief, but it seems like a pretty ridiculous reason to hate the guy. And I can't imagine it's an opinion shared by many level-headed sports fans.

ewing
01-06-2017, 02:12 PM
lol. Larry Bird didn't need Isiah Thomas because he had McHale and Parish. MJ didn't need Barkley because he had Pippen. Those Celtics and Bulls are among the greatest teams in the history of professional sports and they had multiple Hall of Famers on their rosters. The only difference between those teams then and these teams today is that players have more say in where they play than they used to, and the athletes are determining the success of the franchises as much as the front offices are. What's wrong with that?

Also, you say that entertainment is your top priority and act like the league is less interesting with super teams. History and ratings would prove you wrong, my friend. The league finally started gaining popularity in the 80s because of the Lakers/Celtics super teams and the league's ability to market those stars. Whether it's MJ's Bulls, the Kobe/Shaq Lakers or this Warriors/Cavs rivalry, the league has been far more successful when it's had 1-2 dominant teams than when a new team is winning the championship every year. You might like parity more, but I assure you that it's not better for the league.

So basically your argument boils down to "Lebron ruined the league because more star players are actually choosing where they want to play basketball, and I personally, don't think the league is entertaining with super teams." You're certainly entitled to your opinion, chief, but it seems like a pretty ridiculous reason to hate the guy. And I can't imagine it's an opinion shared by many level-headed sports fans.

:cheers::rock::up:

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 02:22 PM
:cheers::rock::up:

Wow. I was expecting a better fight than this. You folded almost as quickly as the guy in your screen name did to the guy in my sig in 1994. ;)

FlashBolt
01-06-2017, 02:38 PM
Lmao, mighty is straight savage today. Put him down like Broussard did to Skip the other day :D

ewing
01-06-2017, 02:57 PM
Wow. I was expecting a better fight than this. You folded almost as quickly as the guy in your screen name did to the guy in my sig in 1994. ;)


no problem. I don't agree with some of your points but we wont agree on premise regardless. the NBA product is not very good right now IMO and it b/c of the Cavs and Warriors. The Knicks, the Pacers, the Jazz, the Blazers, these teams really thought they could beat the Bulls- hell even Mark Price's Cavs thought they had a punchers shot and weren't giving the Bulls Elho for nothing. I didn't like the product much in the late 90s early 2000s either but it was b/c i think the talent was as down. Right now its b/c the season doesn't matter.

FlashBolt
01-06-2017, 02:59 PM
@Ewing, he's basically saying it's your opinion but that throughout history, your logic is inconsistent with what actually happened. So therefore, your opinion is not a very good one. You can't dispute it so just admit that you don't like LeBron :D.

ManRam
01-06-2017, 03:02 PM
If you're the Cavs it's obviously championship or bust. With that being the case, I don't think this moves that needle much. The needle might not have to move much in order for it to pay off since they're obviously already championship caliber, but I think people are getting a little carried away.

Korver is still a great shooter and you can not have too much shooting around LeBron. He's an absolute one-tool player at this point, plus he's a negative defender. That tool is a much needed tool, but if you're talking about Korver as anything else other than a Channing Frye-like role player, I think you gotta pull in the reins. Hell, Frye's probably the superior player.

Assuming JR's thumb heals, if nothing else they have a guy they can ride a bit more when JR is "off"...which is about every other night.

ewing
01-06-2017, 03:04 PM
@Ewing, he's basically saying it's your opinion but that throughout history, your logic is inconsistent with what actually happened. So therefore, your opinion is not a very good one. You can't dispute it so just admit that you don't like LeBron :D.

again, the gap b/t these two team and rest is not the same as the gap b/t the Bulls and the rest or the Lakers and Celts and the rest. Also no one is good and improving at a rate where they look like they can organically grow into challengers. Which is how prior super teams developed. Btw, i was just as hard on Durrant for being a wuss

europagnpilgrim
01-06-2017, 03:40 PM
Not to mention playing with Lebron alone should elevate Korver's game even more. Open 3's for days! The more I think of it, Lebron, Kyrie, and Love all need to be accounted for at all times.. That's going to leave Korver out in the open a lot. May be exaggerating here but this is a HUGE acquisition for the Cavs.

Here we go again, open 3's for Korver which he already can knock down and proven for years

Lebron wont elevate Korver game but he will open up the opportunity to do what Korver has been doing since he played with The Answer in Philly as a rookie/youngster, or even at Creighton or whatever college he went to

tredigs
01-06-2017, 04:05 PM
Here we go again, open 3's for Korver which he already can knock down and proven for years

Lebron wont elevate Korver game but he will open up the opportunity to do what Korver has been doing since he played with The Answer in Philly as a rookie/youngster, or even at Creighton or whatever college he went to

Right, and since Korver is not capable of creating his own space, an ELITE shot creator like Lebron (specifically as it relates to open 3's), will create a situation where he's able to maximize his talent offensively. That's what playing with certain players and/or in certain systems can do for you. Drop the semantics argument dude. We understand he is the same player (though I do still find it hilarious that you don't seem to grasp that some players improve drastically on their skill set and/or fine tune what they have once they enter the league... ala Giannis this season, but that's for another day), but in this Cavs system and playing alongside 'Bron in particular, he should see more open looks and thus produce at a higher efficiency than he would on most teams.

Hawkeye15
01-06-2017, 04:08 PM
I agree completely. At least Bron had the balls to do it first

or not to run to a superteam that doesn't need him at all to win a title..

tredigs
01-06-2017, 04:09 PM
The saving grace of this for fans of other teams is that Korver is now in his mid (late?) 30's and is swiss cheese defensively. That said, when you're a top spot-up 3pt shooter in the game and in the system the Cavs run, he should have the time of his life. Knowing he's playing for a title for the 1st time will NOT hurt his determination to succeed either.

Hawkeye15
01-06-2017, 04:09 PM
lol. Larry Bird didn't need Isiah Thomas because he had McHale and Parish. MJ didn't need Barkley because he had Pippen. Those Celtics and Bulls are among the greatest teams in the history of professional sports and they had multiple Hall of Famers on their rosters. The only difference between those teams then and these teams today is that players have more say in where they play than they used to, and the athletes are determining the success of the franchises as much as the front offices are. What's wrong with that?

Also, you say that entertainment is your top priority and act like the league is less interesting with super teams. History and ratings would prove you wrong, my friend. The league finally started gaining popularity in the 80s because of the Lakers/Celtics super teams and the league's ability to market those stars. Whether it's MJ's Bulls, the Kobe/Shaq Lakers or this Warriors/Cavs rivalry, the league has been far more successful when it's had 1-2 dominant teams than when a new team is winning the championship every year. You might like parity more, but I assure you that it's not better for the league.

So basically your argument boils down to "Lebron ruined the league because more star players are actually choosing where they want to play basketball, and I personally, don't think the league is entertaining with super teams." You're certainly entitled to your opinion, chief, but it seems like a pretty ridiculous reason to hate the guy. And I can't imagine it's an opinion shared by many level-headed sports fans.

because it's not the 80-90's, and it can never be the same!

I swear the old school mentality of fans is just lost on me, and I am 41. If you would have given players freedom to pick and choose back then, they would have. It's as if fans forget Free Agency wasn't even available back then, and the first real star to even use it was Shaq. Alas, some stars lucked out and had amazing front offices.

ewing
01-06-2017, 04:16 PM
because it's not the 80-90's, and it can never be the same!

I swear the old school mentality of fans is just lost on me, and I am 41. If you would have given players freedom to pick and choose back then, they would have. It's as if fans forget Free Agency wasn't even available back then, and the first real star to even use it was Shaq. Alas, some stars lucked out and had amazing front offices.

You just called KD a ***** and again i am talking about the product. If you like this product and find the season and playoffs leading up to Cavs/ Warriors III interesting cool. I don't. Westy is fun. I like the Celtics team and am holding out a little hope that they can put it together put up a fight but its really pretty boring.

europagnpilgrim
01-06-2017, 04:41 PM
Right, and since Korver is not capable of creating his own space, an ELITE shot creator like Lebron (specifically as it relates to open 3's), will create a situation where he's able to maximize his talent offensively. That's what playing with certain players and/or in certain systems can do for you. Drop the semantics argument dude. We understand he is the same player (though I do still find it hilarious that you don't seem to grasp that some players improve drastically on their skill set and/or fine tune what they have once they enter the league... ala Giannis this season, but that's for another day), but in this Cavs system and playing alongside 'Bron in particular, he should see more open looks and thus produce at a higher efficiency than he would on most teams.

Lebron could create at elite level pre NBA and once he stepped foot in the nba, its well documented

I find it hilarious you feel different

Korver never was able to create space for his shot off the bounce but he could run off screens but his most potent is catch and shoot which will be easier for him playing with an elite play creator in Lebron

Giannis is nothing special, I said players don't make others better and that the best/dominant ones usually just carry over from college/HS, if you don't see that then I don't know what planet you are watching games from but let me know so I can join you from that view

Lebron is not going to make Korver a ''better'' 3pt shooter nor is Korver going to make Lebron a ''better''
creator, fact

Korver is like a 40+ pct 3pt shooter for his career so him being more efficient with Cavs wont make him a better player either, fine tuning means doing what you do over and over on the next level like from HS to NCAA to NBA, nothing drastic about that at all, just like Korver has been fine tuning his 3pt shot since grade school I would imagine

5ass
01-06-2017, 04:43 PM
If you're the Cavs it's obviously championship or bust. With that being the case, I don't think this moves that needle much. The needle might not have to move much in order for it to pay off since they're obviously already championship caliber, but I think people are getting a little carried away.

Korver is still a great shooter and you can not have too much shooting around LeBron. He's an absolute one-tool player at this point, plus he's a negative defender. That tool is a much needed tool, but if you're talking about Korver as anything else other than a Channing Frye-like role player, I think you gotta pull in the reins. Hell, Frye's probably the superior player.

Assuming JR's thumb heals, if nothing else they have a guy they can ride a bit more when JR is "off"...which is about every other night.

100%. I don't know why some are acting like the cavs just added a star...

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 04:47 PM
The saving grace of this for fans of other teams is that Korver is now in his mid (late?) 30's and is swiss cheese defensively. That said, when you're a top spot-up 3pt shooter in the game and in the system the Cavs run, he should have the time of his life. Knowing he's playing for a title for the 1st time will NOT hurt his determination to succeed either.

To add to this: The Cavs for the most part were able to shut down/limit Korver in the playoffs. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard for other teams (especially the Warriors) to use their length and athleticism to do the same.

But yeah, he should definitely play well in this system and in the very least is an upgrade over Dunleavy.

Aust
01-06-2017, 04:54 PM
Gave him away for nothing lmao wow. He's going to knock down SO many wide open 3's.

Pretty ridiculous. NOBODY was willing to give up anything??? He's an expiring too...

tredigs
01-06-2017, 05:11 PM
Lebron could create at elite level pre NBA and once he stepped foot in the nba, its well documented

I find it hilarious you feel different

Korver never was able to create space for his shot off the bounce but he could run off screens but his most potent is catch and shoot which will be easier for him playing with an elite play creator in Lebron

Giannis is nothing special, I said players don't make others better and that the best/dominant ones usually just carry over from college/HS, if you don't see that then I don't know what planet you are watching games from but let me know so I can join you from that view

Lebron is not going to make Korver a ''better'' 3pt shooter nor is Korver going to make Lebron a ''better''
creator, fact

Korver is like a 40+ pct 3pt shooter for his career so him being more efficient with Cavs wont make him a better player either, fine tuning means doing what you do over and over on the next level like from HS to NCAA to NBA, nothing drastic about that at all, just like Korver has been fine tuning his 3pt shot since grade school I would imagine

It's called "opportunity". If you do not have the same opportunities, and you are a guy like Korver who can not create those opportunities on your own, then you are a diminished form of what you are capable of producing at. A team like the Cavs and a player like LBJ will be sure to put him in the best place possible as a shooter. Now, stop arguing semantics with me. We both agree that as a whole he is no different in his CAPABILITY on one team or another. That does not change the fact that the reality of his production will in fact fluctuate based on what system and what players he is along side.

As far as players not improving, you are just so hilariously blind of reality it is actually amusing. Out of curiosity, do you think Giannis was the same player at 13 years old as he is now?

When a player develops a shot midway through their career, or improves their handles and/or ability to finish at the rim over significantly over an off-season between years 5 and 6, what do you consider that?

BKLYNpigeon
01-06-2017, 05:12 PM
Good trade by the Hawks, Korver hasn't been the same since Delladova injured him a few years back.

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 05:16 PM
no problem. I don't agree with some of your points but we wont agree on premise regardless. the NBA product is not very good right now IMO and it b/c of the Cavs and Warriors. The Knicks, the Pacers, the Jazz, the Blazers, these teams really thought they could beat the Bulls- hell even Mark Price's Cavs thought they had a punchers shot and weren't giving the Bulls Elho for nothing. I didn't like the product much in the late 90s early 2000s either but it was b/c i think the talent was as down. Right now its b/c the season doesn't matter.

Is this really true, though? Are you going to tell me that Mourning's Heat, Ewing's Knicks, Reggie's Pacers, etc. had a better chance at taking down MJ's Bulls than the Raptors and Spurs have of taking down the Cavs and Warriors, respectively, this season? Because the Bulls won the finals six of the seven years when Jordan was with the team from 90-98. Only the Penny/Shaq Magic were good enough to take them down, and Jordan had just come back from baseball.

If you honestly think this, I'll heartily agree to disagree. In those six years the Bulls won those titles, they played in only two 7-game series (and no 5-game series in the first round). That's two elimination games out of 24 total series over six years. And in both cases, the worst they were ever down in those series was 0-1 to the Knicks in 91. Last year, the Thunder pushed Golden State to a 3-1 deficit before they had to claw their way back and then ultimately lost to Cleveland. Can you honestly envision a scenario where MJ's Bulls at their peak would have been down 3-1 in a series? I can't. Because it never happened.

So don't tell me that the game is unwatchable because the regular season doesn't matter. It mattered even less at Jordan's peak. And at least in this era of basketball we get two legit super teams that have a legit rivalry like we got with the Lakers and Celtics in the 80s. But in the 90s, the Bulls had no legitimate rival, and every series was essentially a foregone conclusion. And I won't even bring up the 50s-60s Celtics. That's a whole other monster. You want to talk about a useless regular season? That team won 11 titles in 13 years, including eight in a row.

valade16
01-06-2017, 05:18 PM
You just called KD a ***** and again i am talking about the product. If you like this product and find the season and playoffs leading up to Cavs/ Warriors III interesting cool. I don't. Westy is fun. I like the Celtics team and am holding out a little hope that they can put it together put up a fight but its really pretty boring.

I am super excited to see Cavs/Dubs III the problem is it takes so long to get there and I really don't care about the playoffs or regular season (part of that is because the regular season is too long anyway). I mean can we all be real? None of this matters until the rematch.

So I think it does create more buzz and popularity to have a few dominant teams but at the expense se of the rest of the league. Luckily the league has Westy's triple double watch and D'Antonis redemption or there would literally be zero exciting developments to watch.

valade16
01-06-2017, 05:22 PM
Is this really true, though? Are you going to tell me that Mourning's Heat, Ewing's Knicks, Reggie's Pacers, etc. had a better chance at taking down MJ's Bulls than the Raptors and Spurs have of taking down the Cavs and Warriors, respectively, this season? Because the Bulls won the finals six of the seven years when Jordan was with the team from 90-98. Only the Penny/Shaq Magic were good enough to take them down, and Jordan had just come back from baseball.

If you honestly think this, I'll heartily agree to disagree. In those six years the Bulls won those titles, they played in only two 7-game series (and no 5-game series in the first round). That's two elimination games out of 24 total series over six years. And in both cases, the worst they were ever down in those series was 0-1 to the Knicks in 91. Last year, the Thunder pushed Golden State to a 3-1 deficit before they had to claw their way back and then ultimately lost to Cleveland. Can you honestly envision a scenario where MJ's Bulls at their peak would have been down 3-1 in a series? I can't. Because it never happened.

So don't tell me that the game is unwatchable because the regular season doesn't matter. It mattered even less at Jordan's peak. And at least in this era of basketball we get two legit super teams that have a legit rivalry like we got with the Lakers and Celtics in the 80s. But in the 90s, the Bulls had no legitimate rival, and every series was essentially a foregone conclusion. And I won't even bring up the 50s-60s Celtics. That's a whole other monster. You want to talk about a useless regular season? That team won 11 titles in 13 years, including eight in a row.

If you do t think the Bulls had a legitimate rival then you probably didn't watch. Bulls-Pistons was as contentious and more of a rivalry than all but a handful of rivalries and Chicago-NYK was not very far behind that.

And what chance do you give for the Spurs or Raptors to take down the Cavs or Warriors? I think most have their chances hovering around 1% so I think the bets you can say is in both eras the underdog had about the same chance.

The Thunder was a pretty poor example considering the star if that team left them for the Warriors, so a down 3-1 series and a 4-3 Dubs series swapped the best player to the other team... do you think it would still be that close lol?

tredigs
01-06-2017, 05:28 PM
I am super excited to see Cavs/Dubs III the problem is it takes so long to get there and I really don't care about the playoffs or regular season (part of that is because the regular season is too long anyway). I mean can we all be real? None of this matters until the rematch.

So I think it does create more buzz and popularity to have a few dominant teams but at the expense se of the rest of the league. Luckily the league has Westy's triple double watch and D'Antonis redemption or there would literally be zero exciting developments to watch.

"zero exciting developments" outside of them? Heavily disagree. How about that out of nowhere we are getting to see the first steps of what could very likely be the games next great big man in Embiid? Not to mention Porzingis and KAT's potential. How about Giannis? Outside of not having a jumper, this 22 yr old put it all together over the off-season and with his athletic ability/size + 2 way dominance, we could be witnessing the onset of a legend-level talent. This from a 15th pick in the draft who many scouts deemed a true boom/bust. Well Valade, business is a boomin'.

Avenged
01-06-2017, 05:30 PM
Gave him away for nothing lmao wow. He's going to knock down SO many wide open 3's.

Pretty ridiculous. NOBODY was willing to give up anything??? He's an expiring too...

That's what I'm saying.. Forget his decline for a minute.. He's going to be left wide open more times than not. A sharpshooter... "Korver from the corner.........BANG!!!!!!"

Avenged
01-06-2017, 05:34 PM
That's what I'm saying.. Forget his decline for a minute.. He's going to be left wide open more times than not. A sharpshooter... "Korver from the corner.........BANG!!!!!!"

Then again... On the next play "Curry for the 3... BANG!!" how many times will Mike Breen say bang? :laugh2:

valade16
01-06-2017, 05:42 PM
"zero exciting developments" outside of them? Heavily disagree. How about that out of nowhere we are getting to see the first steps of what could very likely be the games next great big man in Embiid? Not to mention Porzingis and KAT's potential. How about Giannis? Outside of not having a jumper, this 22 yr old put it all together over the off-season and with his athletic ability/size + 2 way dominance, we could be witnessing the onset of a legend-level talent. This from a 15th pick in the draft who many scouts deemed a true boom/bust. Well Valade, business is a boomin'.

You could go back to 75% of seasons and conjure comparable exciting developments especially if young players. Not to mention you completely discount the possibility those may not occur.

Heck last year and the offseason it was the possible rise of the greatest C of our generation in Towns and many said he was already the best C this very offseason, didn't happen.

Go back a few years and it was getting to see the first steps of the games next great big man only his name was Greg Oden. And before that the next Giannis was Grant Hill.

And aside from ALL THAT, it doesn't matter. Not a one of those developments will impact who wins in the slightest for at least the next 3 years thanks to the Dubs. We have a lot of young talent doing great things! Cool, we have that often.

ewing
01-06-2017, 05:44 PM
I am super excited to see Cavs/Dubs III the problem is it takes so long to get there and I really don't care about the playoffs or regular season (part of that is because the regular season is too long anyway). I mean can we all be real? None of this matters until the rematch.

So I think it does create more buzz and popularity to have a few dominant teams but at the expense se of the rest of the league. Luckily the league has Westy's triple double watch and D'Antonis redemption or there would literally be zero exciting developments to watch.

last year was a great finals. Hopefully this one is too. I don't think anything is really that interesting until then though. I like that D'Antoni is doing well but i don't find his team very fun to watch. Westy quest to say FU to the world and win on his own is the only "team" story line I find interesting. Like i said i like the Celts on paper and enjoy watching IT a lot

tredigs
01-06-2017, 05:53 PM
You could go back to 75% of seasons and conjure comparable exciting developments especially if young players. Not to mention you completely discount the possibility those may not occur.

Heck last year and the offseason it was the possible rise of the greatest C of our generation in Towns and many said he was already the best C this very offseason, didn't happen.

Go back a few years and it was getting to see the first steps of the games next great big man only his name was Greg Oden. And before that the next Giannis was Grant Hill.

And aside from ALL THAT, it doesn't matter. Not a one of those developments will impact who wins in the slightest for at least the next 3 years thanks to the Dubs. We have a lot of young talent doing great things! Cool, we have that often.

Cool dude, so you just don't like the NBA? The Warriors can be beat, as evidenced by last season when everybody said the title was a lock mid-season (granted the Cavs and Spurs were favored pre-season). **** happens. You're probably the same guy who thought nobody could touch the Heat, until they got beat 2/4 seasons.

I personally have Giannis and Embiid as extremely special talents. Never thought the same for KAT, just looks like a promising young big to me. Ditto Porzingis. Both could be special, but with Giannis and Embiid, barring injury, they WILL be special. Giannis is already putting up prime Bird #'s for ****s sake.

Avenged
01-06-2017, 05:57 PM
Cool dude, so you just don't like the NBA? The Warriors can be beat, as evidenced by last season when everybody said the title was a lock mid-season (granted the Cavs and Spurs were favored pre-season). **** happens. You're probably the same guy who thought nobody could touch the Heat, until they got beat 2/4 seasons.

I personally have Giannis and Embiid as extremely special talents. Never thought the same for KAT, just looks like a promising young big to me. Ditto Porzingis. Both could be special, but with Giannis and Embiid, barring injury, they WILL be special. Giannis is already putting up prime Bird #'s for ****s sake.

Not to derail the thread or give Brewer a hard on (lol) but is Giannis really that good? I haven't seen a single Bucks game but if this is so, I will have to tune in.

valade16
01-06-2017, 06:02 PM
Cool dude, so you just don't like the NBA? The Warriors can be beat, as evidenced by last season when everybody said the title was a lock mid-season (granted the Cavs and Spurs were favored pre-season). **** happens. You're probably the same guy who thought nobody could touch the Heat, until they got beat 2/4 seasons.

I personally have Giannis and Embiid as extremely special talents. Never thought the same for KAT, just looks like a promising young big to me. Ditto Porzingis. Both could be special, but with Giannis and Embiid, barring injury, they WILL be special. Giannis is already putting up prime Bird #'s for ****s sake.

Don't get me wrong, I have problems with the current NBA but I don't dislike it at all. I'm not one of those golden age fallacy guys where everything was always better before. I think the talent level of the NBA is about as good as it's ever been and there is more young talent (Embiid, KAT, Giannis, Porzingis) that could be special than I can recall.

And again, bringing up last seasons Warriors is a terrible example because back then nobody thought they could be beat and it took a massive upset and legendary Finals performance to beat them... and they added a top 3 player. So whatever chance there was for an upset last season just went down exponentially.

The Heat aren't a much better example as even thought they went 2/4 they went to the Finals all 4 years (you'll recall I said in this thread the Finals will be worth watching). That really only helps my point of not needing to watch until the Finals.

If you feel that strongly the NBA is not so anti-climactic to expect Dubs/Cavs how about we make a sig bet? I bet it will be the Dubs/Cavs in a Finals rematch. If you don't want to take that bet... doesn't that kind of prove my point?

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 06:13 PM
If you do t think the Bulls had a legitimate rival then you probably didn't watch. Bulls-Pistons was as contentious and more of a rivalry than all but a handful of rivalries and Chicago-NYK was not very far behind that.
Two things here. First, note that I specifically mentioned the run the Bulls had from the 90-91 season to the 97-98 season. They played that Bad Boys Pistons team once over those six years (in 91) and they swept them 4-0. So, no, I don't think there was a legit postseason rivalry with those two teams at the height of Jordan's Bulls teams from 91-98.

Second, I was born in 1987. The Pistons pretty much fell off after 90. Is it really fair to criticize me for not watching a lot of NBA basketball when I was 3?


And what chance do you give for the Spurs or Raptors to take down the Cavs or Warriors? I think most have their chances hovering around 1% so I think the bets you can say is in both eras the underdog had about the same chance.
I'm fairly certain you wouldn't get 100-1 odds in those series, dude. But I'll gladly take that bet if you're willing to give it to me! But I honestly have no idea what odds I'd give those teams in January. We're months away from truly meaningful basketball and a zillion things could happen between now and then. Right now, I'd probably put it at like 20-25 percent in either series. Not very likely at all, but certainly not out of the question.


The Thunder was a pretty poor example considering the star if that team left them for the Warriors, so a down 3-1 series and a 4-3 Dubs series swapped the best player to the other team... do you think it would still be that close lol?
Is it a bad example, though? Because that Warriors team last season won 73 games. By all intents and purposes, they had the best regular season in the history of the NBA and should have been a lock to win the Finals. Not only did they not win the Finals, but they had to win three elimination games in the conference finals just to face Cleveland.

So if that 73-win Warriors team can be beat, why can't this year's team with Durant? Yeah, they're better on paper in terms of talent. But they also added some weaknesses in terms of depth and interior defense when they let some of their veteran rotational guys go. And that's a trend that will only continue as they start having to pay their stars over the next few seasons.

tredigs
01-06-2017, 06:16 PM
Don't get me wrong, I have problems with the current NBA but I don't dislike it at all. I'm not one of those golden age fallacy guys where everything was always better before. I think the talent level of the NBA is about as good as it's ever been and there is more young talent (Embiid, KAT, Giannis, Porzingis) that could be special than I can recall.

And again, bringing up last seasons Warriors is a terrible example because back then nobody thought they could be beat and it took a massive upset and legendary Finals performance to beat them... and they added a top 3 player. So whatever chance there was for an upset last season just went down exponentially.

The Heat aren't a much better example as even thought they went 2/4 they went to the Finals all 4 years (you'll recall I said in this thread the Finals will be worth watching). That really only helps my point of not needing to watch until the Finals.

If you feel that strongly the NBA is not so anti-climactic to expect Dubs/Cavs how about we make a sig bet? I bet it will be the Dubs/Cavs in a Finals rematch. If you don't want to take that bet... doesn't that kind of prove my point?

No, it doesn't mean ****. I too think it will be Cavs/Dubs, but that doesn't mean there are not a dozen different storylines/players worth following. It's the NBA dude, most of the time you have a VERY good read on who will be meeting in the Finals. Granted, this year more-so than most, but this is what the league is. There are always heavy favorites. Your Blazers haven't had a chance to compete for a title since before you were born and seemingly have no chance in the looming future. Why do you watch if that's your sole prerogative? My Warriors didn't have a chance in hell in winning the title my entire youth, and MJ's Bulls simply dominated the 90's and we all knew it. You think I cared? No, not really. Still a hundred different reasons I loved following both them and the league as a whole. And in fact I loved watching the Bulls **** on everyone. Pretty much everyone did. At least now we have a true rivalry.

Hawkeye15
01-06-2017, 06:19 PM
You just called KD a ***** and again i am talking about the product. If you like this product and find the season and playoffs leading up to Cavs/ Warriors III interesting cool. I don't. Westy is fun. I like the Celtics team and am holding out a little hope that they can put it together put up a fight but its really pretty boring.

has there every been disparity in the NBA? Outside a few random years? I mean, it's always been easy to separate 3-4 teams from everyone else.

valade16
01-06-2017, 06:22 PM
Two things here. First, note that I specifically mentioned the run the Bulls had from the 90-91 season to the 97-98 season. They played that Bad Boys Pistons team once over those six years (in 91) and they swept them 4-0. So, no, I don't think there was a legit postseason rivalry with those two teams at the height of Jordan's Bulls teams from 91-98.

Second, I was born in 1987. The Pistons pretty much fell off after 90. Is it really fair to criticize me for not watching a lot of NBA basketball when I was 3?

I'm fairly certain you wouldn't get 100-1 odds in those series, dude. But I'll gladly take that bet if you're willing to give it to me! But I honestly have no idea what odds I'd give those teams in January. We're months away from truly meaningful basketball and a zillion things could happen between now and then. Right now, I'd probably put it at like 20-25 percent in either series. Not very likely at all, but certainly not out of the question.

Is it a bad example, though? Because that Warriors team last season won 73 games. By all intents and purposes, they had the best regular season in the history of the NBA and should have been a lock to win the Finals. Not only did they not win the Finals, but they had to win three elimination games in the conference finals just to face Cleveland.

So if that 73-win Warriors team can be beat, why can't this year's team with Durant? Yeah, they're better on paper in terms of talent. But they also added some weaknesses in terms of depth and interior defense when they let some of their veteran rotational guys go. And that's a trend that will only continue as they start having to pay their stars over the next few seasons.

First, it's a little unfair to specifically not include a rivalry and then claim they had no rivals

Second, :laugh2: I suppose it is not!

Third, if that Warriors team can be beat why can't this Warriors team be? Because that team that was barely beat by a top 5 player ever added an MVP caliber player. And my point was that it's going to be he Warriors and Cavs as the only teams that have a shot, how does saying "they could be upset by the Cavs" really hurt my point lol?

I'd be more than willing to sig bet the Dubs make the Finals if you want.

valade16
01-06-2017, 06:29 PM
has there every been disparity in the NBA? Outside a few random years? I mean, it's always been easy to separate 3-4 teams from everyone else.

I think the point is people would be happy if we could separate 3-4 teams, currently we can only separate 2.

valade16
01-06-2017, 06:32 PM
No, it doesn't mean ****. I too think it will be Cavs/Dubs, but that doesn't mean there are not a dozen different storylines/players worth following. It's the NBA dude, most of the time you have a VERY good read on who will be meeting in the Finals. Granted, this year more-so than most, but this is what the league is. There are always heavy favorites. Your Blazers haven't had a chance to compete for a title since before you were born and seemingly have no chance in the looming future. Why do you watch if that's your sole prerogative? My Warriors didn't have a chance in hell in winning the title my entire youth, and MJ's Bulls simply dominated the 90's and we all knew it. You think I cared? No, not really. Still a hundred different reasons I loved following both them and the league as a whole. And in fact I loved watching the Bulls **** on everyone. Pretty much everyone did. At least now we have a true rivalry.

I'm not trying to convince you not to watch, if you have a number of reasons to watch good for you. I'm saying for many people there isn't a reason to watch because of the dominance of 1 team and that one rivalry.

I'd be curious to see the ratings of the league as whole but this is fairly illustrative of my point:

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2016/12/nba-christmas-day-ratings-abc-warriors-cavaliers-espn-nfl-competition/

Dubs-Cavs was up massively in ratings and virtually every other prime time matchup was down compared to last year. Because people only want to watch their own team play or the Cavs/Dubs. Nobody seems to be caring about other games since they know those teams won't affect the title.

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 06:51 PM
First, it's a little unfair to specifically not include a rivalry and then claim they had no rivals

Second, :laugh2: I suppose it is not!

Third, if that Warriors team can be beat why can't this Warriors team be? Because that team that was barely beat by a top 5 player ever added an MVP caliber player. And my point was that it's going to be he Warriors and Cavs as the only teams that have a shot, how does saying "they could be upset by the Cavs" really hurt my point lol?

I'd be more than willing to sig bet the Dubs make the Finals if you want.

I think you might have the 'hopelessness-syndrome' during this regular season, bud. No worries, we all go through those moments with this Warriors team. :D

This Warriors team is different for sure from the last two seasons, but the playoffs is still another thing altogether. Even if the Warriors win the title as long as they face the Spurs/Cavs we'll probably be in for a really entertaining series. They're an extraordinary team... it's easier to appreciate the challenge of trying to topple them in a 'them vs. the field' sort of way.

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 07:01 PM
Third, if that Warriors team can be beat why can't this Warriors team be? Because that team that was barely beat by a top 5 player ever added an MVP caliber player. And my point was that it's going to be he Warriors and Cavs as the only teams that have a shot, how does saying "they could be upset by the Cavs" really hurt my point lol?
I don't necessarily think that the Cavs are the only team that can beat the Warriors. Obviously it's a ridiculously small sample size at this point, but you know what their record is against the 2 and 3 seeds in the West right now? 0-2. I'm not saying that means the Spurs or Rockets should be favored in a series against them or that I would even pick them in a series with Golden State (I absolutely wouldn't), but it shows they're beatable, and the top teams in the West have proven that.

Also, while I think the Warriors have improved on paper this season, I think the Cavs have as well. Both Irving and Love are having career seasons, and this acquisition of Korver (which this thread was about at some point), makes them a more dangerous basketball team than they were when these two teams faced each other a few months ago in the Finals.


I'd be more than willing to sig bet the Dubs make the Finals if you want.
Just because I think the Warriors are beatable doesn't mean I'm willing to bet against the odds. The Warriors are still the heavy, heavy favorites in the West as of right now. But if history has taught us anything, it's that anything can happen in the playoffs.

tredigs
01-06-2017, 07:03 PM
I'm not trying to convince you not to watch, if you have a number of reasons to watch good for you. I'm saying for many people there isn't a reason to watch because of the dominance of 1 team and that one rivalry.

I'd be curious to see the ratings of the league as whole but this is fairly illustrative of my point:

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2016/12/nba-christmas-day-ratings-abc-warriors-cavaliers-espn-nfl-competition/

Dubs-Cavs was up massively in ratings and virtually every other prime time matchup was down compared to last year. Because people only want to watch their own team play or the Cavs/Dubs. Nobody seems to be caring about other games since they know those teams won't affect the title.

On my phone so bear with the lack of links.

I know that going into January national ratings were down slightly from the year prior, but that when you delve deeper, they saw that it was due to 6 national games running opposite the Cubs World Series. And this season TNT had to go against Thursday Night Football being simulcast on NBC instead of just on NFL Network. In those days, NBA ratings were down huge. Outside of those days, there numbers were up over last season. I imagine that with no more TNF and the games adding up, they've probably caught up to last years average (which was an extremely high one). All in all, the game is in VERY good shape - arguably its best ever.

I also know the Finals was the most watched in decades and that the NBA as a whole set a record for revenue last season.

valade16
01-06-2017, 07:05 PM
I think you might have the 'hopelessness-syndrome' during this regular season, bud. No worries, we all go through those moments with this Warriors team. :D

This Warriors team is different for sure from the last two seasons, but the playoffs is still another thing altogether. Even if the Warriors win the title as long as they face the Spurs/Cavs we'll probably be in for a really entertaining series. They're an extraordinary team... it's easier to appreciate the challenge of trying to topple them in a 'them vs. the field' sort of way.

I'm not talking about me specifically, it's the NBA fan base at large. I get that you're not as capable of seeing it since you are a fan of the one team that can compete with them. Cavs-Dubs have been the most entertaining series I've seen in a long time I'll say that much, I can't wait until we see the third iteration, I just wish we could skip all this irrelevance to get there

valade16
01-06-2017, 07:10 PM
On my phone so bear with the lack of links.

I know that going into January national ratings were down slightly from the year prior, but that when you delve deeper, they saw that it was due to 6 national games running opposite the Cubs World Series. And this season TNT had to go against Thursday Night Football being simulcast on NBC instead of just on NFL Network. In those days, NBA ratings were down huge. Outside of those days, there numbers were up over last season. I imagine that with no more TNF and the games adding up, they've probably caught up to last years average (which was an extremely high one). All in all, the game is in VERY good shape - arguably its best ever.

I also know the Finals was the most watched in decades and that the NBA as a whole set a record for revenue last season.

All the leagues are constantly setting revenue records due to the exploding TV rights deals.

And I expect the Finals to be the most watched, as I said everyone wants to see Dubs/Cavs but I'd like to see if there is as much enthusiasm for the rest of the league, there certainly isn't from me or the friends I know (however that's anecdotal).

I agree the league is in possibly its best shape ever, but that isn't what I'm arguing

valade16
01-06-2017, 07:13 PM
I also think it's kind of humorous everyone is like "The Warriors and Cavs can be beaten you never know" then when I offer to bet on it the response is "well I'm not an idiot, no way I'm taking that bet" lol

I guess other teams have a chance due to the principle that something that hasn't happened yet is technically in doubt, but everyone seems fairly certain it's going to happen no matter how much they attempt to convince me (and themselves) otherwise.

europagnpilgrim
01-06-2017, 07:23 PM
It's called "opportunity". If you do not have the same opportunities, and you are a guy like Korver who can not create those opportunities on your own, then you are a diminished form of what you are capable of producing at. A team like the Cavs and a player like LBJ will be sure to put him in the best place possible as a shooter. Now, stop arguing semantics with me. We both agree that as a whole he is no different in his CAPABILITY on one team or another. That does not change the fact that the reality of his production will in fact fluctuate based on what system and what players he is along side.

As far as players not improving, you are just so hilariously blind of reality it is actually amusing. Out of curiosity, do you think Giannis was the same player at 13 years old as he is now?

When a player develops a shot midway through their career, or improves their handles and/or ability to finish at the rim over significantly over an off-season between years 5 and 6, what do you consider that?

Korver is a sniper and him getting those looks depend on the system and better players around him, it was The Answer spoon feeding him early on then went to a couple other teams before landing in Hawks system where he moved off screens more to shoot as prior to with the Bulls but now he will be playing with Lebron who will spoon feed him but he is still a sniper regardless of those situations and opportunities, that's his DNA no matter how much he tries to improve on his creating/playmaking skills which is not in his DNA

So Giannis is just getting more opportunity to show what he was always capable of doing, not that he is really much better and the reason is he is the PG now that his coach moved him to, Westbrook is doing what he was always capable of and minus KD it is even more fascinating on solo level but he wont be sniffing the WCF/Finals with his current squad, I never said a player cant improve on a handle or shooting wise, just look at Rondo, he has improved but it hasn't made him better because back in his Boston days he wouldn't even think about shooting a 3 and even now when he shoots them years later it is still a crap shot but he has more confidence in taking that shot and opportunity, rather he can make it or not is a whole diff. story

Giannis at 13yrs old was probably living off of what he is now, his natural ability/height, which like I said is a carry over, Lebron did the same thing coming straight out of HS, he was getting compared to Magic with his vision/floor game but much more athletic and still plays the same 14yrs later even though his top physical athletic ability has fallen off he still does whats in his DNA, create and drive to the rim at will with occasional jumpers and 3's, the best players are usually what they are if not why is Lebron still shaky from the foul line and 3pt range 14yrs later? you are who you are

doesn't Lebron have a crazy work ethic? then why is he still shaky from those areas he entered the league shaky at?

just because a guy puts in a lot of offseason work doesn't mean he is going to improve/get better, it means he wants to and is trying and putting some work in, Lebron could shoot 10000 three's and free throws every offseason and he will still be what he is from the line/3pt wise but if Curry/Korver etc do it then they are just fine tuning what they are already top notch at, just like they wouldn't be able to play above the rim or play through contact or in the post like Lebron no matter how much they tried

Giannis will not go down as one of the best/most dominant players ever , and the reason why I said he wasn't nothing special is because its been plenty of guys who have filled the stat sheet up and they have the team in title contention talk ever since the 60's, he has Bucks barely at or above 500. ball, Lebron had that type of team winning 60 games with better numbers, now that's special

you guys get caught up in someone being so young but not realizing all he is going to do is age and fall off so being young means you are at your best physically to show what you are capable of and going out and doing it, not waiting 10yrs later if you are truly that dominant/franchise worthy

its like if K Walker makes the all star team this year it wasn't because he magically got better because some people think he was snubbed last or year before, its because his team is winning more because he for sure is playing the same style(way) and with the same skill/grit he showed at UCONN, game film don't lie

you are confusing average-good role players with the best/most dominant players, average role players might improve slightly at something but they still round out to being just that, average role players

Jimmy Butler didn't improve much at all, he just got more usage, he was a defensive minded guard who got the opportunity to score more and it still remains, same with Bradley in Boston, same with I Thomas who showcased his game in Sac town, now in Boston he is the 1st option getting more opportunity to do what he was always capable of and showcased it already

Giannis is a high riser who excels in the open court and can hit an occasional mid range jumper and he will be that way for the next 5-10yrs so get used to it

ewing
01-06-2017, 07:35 PM
Two things here. First, note that I specifically mentioned the run the Bulls had from the 90-91 season to the 97-98 season. They played that Bad Boys Pistons team once over those six years (in 91) and they swept them 4-0. So, no, I don't think there was a legit postseason rivalry with those two teams at the height of Jordan's Bulls teams from 91-98.

Second, I was born in 1987. The Pistons pretty much fell off after 90. Is it really fair to criticize me for not watching a lot of NBA basketball when I was 3?


I'm fairly certain you wouldn't get 100-1 odds in those series, dude. But I'll gladly take that bet if you're willing to give it to me! But I honestly have no idea what odds I'd give those teams in January. We're months away from truly meaningful basketball and a zillion things could happen between now and then. Right now, I'd probably put it at like 20-25 percent in either series. Not very likely at all, but certainly not out of the question.


Is it a bad example, though? Because that Warriors team last season won 73 games. By all intents and purposes, they had the best regular season in the history of the NBA and should have been a lock to win the Finals. Not only did they not win the Finals, but they had to win three elimination games in the conference finals just to face Cleveland.

So if that 73-win Warriors team can be beat, why can't this year's team with Durant? Yeah, they're better on paper in terms of talent. But they also added some weaknesses in terms of depth and interior defense when they let some of their veteran rotational guys go. And that's a trend that will only continue as they start having to pay their stars over the next few seasons.

last year i said the Warriors were beatable this year is I am telling you only the Cavs have a shot if they stay healthy

tredigs
01-06-2017, 07:36 PM
All the leagues are constantly setting revenue records due to the exploding TV rights deals.

And I expect the Finals to be the most watched, as I said everyone wants to see Dubs/Cavs but I'd like to see if there is as much enthusiasm for the rest of the league, there certainly isn't from me or the friends I know (however that's anecdotal).

I agree the league is in possibly its best shape ever, but that isn't what I'm arguing

Well there's not much else to go on besides the league making its most money ever and Finals ratings being the highest in decades. The only ratings I've seen were the ones I discussed, which sounded like outside of the NFL/World-Series h2h's, they were doing very well as a whole.

I get your stance in that you think this is a more telling Finals than normal and as such, "who cares?". But, that's just not the way most fans think. The reality is that it's almost always 4 team at the top and then the rest. So are you telling me in most seasons, that you're willing to watch those 4 and then the hell with the rest? Not buying it. There are too many great players in the league right now and too many fun storylines outside of the Cavs/Warriors for most true fans not to enjoy the current product. We got a guy averaging a triple-double for **** sake, and he's not even the front-runner for MVP!

I don't know, I've always been a fan of the game as a whole, not just who is vying for a title (often times I care less about them then the other storylines brewing). Guess we just view the game differently. That may come from me growing up with a team that I knew never had a chance to win, not sure.

@europa, you're delusional and exhausting, I don't have time to write diatribes back and forth about the fact that NBA players very clearly can and do improve their games once they reach the league.

ewing
01-06-2017, 07:39 PM
has there every been disparity in the NBA? Outside a few random years? I mean, it's always been easy to separate 3-4 teams from everyone else.

Dude people are trying to convince me that the NBA is a good watch b/c of my Knicks and your Wolves!!!!!!! Watching the sixers is also a highlight! Remember when the West was stacked and TMAC and Yao were a 4 or 5 seed- that was entertaining basketball

kdspurman
01-06-2017, 07:39 PM
I also think it's kind of humorous everyone is like "The Warriors and Cavs can be beaten you never know" then when I offer to bet on it the response is "well I'm not an idiot, no way I'm taking that bet" lol

I guess other teams have a chance due to the principle that something that hasn't happened yet is technically in doubt, but everyone seems fairly certain it's going to happen no matter how much they attempt to convince me (and themselves) otherwise.

Nothing is guaranteed imo.

valade16
01-06-2017, 07:47 PM
Well there's not much else to go on besides the league making its most money ever and Finals ratings being the highest in decades. The only ratings I've seen were the ones I discussed, which sounded like outside of the NFL/World-Series h2h's, they were doing very well as a whole.

I get your stance in that you think this is a more telling Finals than normal and as such, "who cares?". But, that's just not the way most fans think. The reality is that it's almost always 4 team at the top and then the rest. So are you telling me in most seasons, that you're willing to watch those 4 and then the hell with the rest? Not buying it. There are too many great players in the league right now and too many fun storylines outside of the Cavs/Warriors for most true fans not to enjoy the current product. We got a guy averaging a triple-double for **** sake, and he's not even the front-runner for MVP!

I don't know, I've always been a fan of the game as a whole, not just who is vying for a title (often times I care less about them then the other storylines brewing). Guess we just view the game differently. That may come from me growing up with a team that I knew never had a chance to win, not sure.

@europa, you're delusional and exhausting, I don't have time to write diatribes back and forth about the fact that NBA players very clearly can and do improve their games once they reach the league.

It's telling that I'm arguing with a Dubs fan and a Cavs fan who are saying fans aren't affected by those two teams dominating. Suffice to say I don't think those fan bases aren't getting the same view of the NBA as most lol.

I specifically mentioned Westy's triple double watch as one of the few genuinely intriguing things to watch. I guess I would classify it as more fans are intrigued and excited by the Dubs/Cavs rematch but not really excited by the intrigue of who is going to go to the Finals, because they already know.

If they find other reasons to watch the NBA good for them, I know many who aren't. I don't think it's some problem for the league or bad because 20 years from now the epic rivalry will outlast the temporary storylines of who developed and other teams. Sacrificing parity for historic achievements is not a bad thing.

You can watch Giannis and Embiid games for the excitement of seeing the next big thing but you certainly won't be seeing very good basketball in the here and now since Philly sucks and Milwaukee isn't much better.

GodsSon
01-06-2017, 07:48 PM
I still think the Spurs come out of the West. Too much size up front for GS.

valade16
01-06-2017, 07:49 PM
Nothing is guaranteed imo.

That is true of all things though. In the history of basketball Dubs/Cavs rematch is about as sure if a thing as we've had in NBA history, behind Russell's Celts winning, Lakers making the Finals and the Bulls winning. Can you think of anything else more certain?

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 07:55 PM
I also think it's kind of humorous everyone is like "The Warriors and Cavs can be beaten you never know" then when I offer to bet on it the response is "well I'm not an idiot, no way I'm taking that bet" lol

I guess other teams have a chance due to the principle that something that hasn't happened yet is technically in doubt, but everyone seems fairly certain it's going to happen no matter how much they attempt to convince me (and themselves) otherwise.

Because it's dumb to bet against the odds. But the odds are often wrong. I'm guessing there weren't many takers on sig bets a few months ago that the Cavs would recover from down 3-1 to beat the Warriors. It still happened.

Sports are only unpredictable to a certain extent. There's a lot of things you can't account for. Aside from the obvious one (injuries), you can't necessarily account for unforeseen matchups, unexpected performances (good or bad), positive or negative momentum, emotions, poor officiating, 50/50 balls, etc. All of those things are in play in a given series. And while a seven-game series somewhat diminishes the impact of these unpredictable factors, it doesn't completely eliminate them. If a team plays poorly enough or well enough in a stretch of a few games, they can beat anybody. Would you take Golden State to beat Philly 9 times out of 10, right? Well there's still that one game that Philly would find a way to win. And teams just have to have that 1 game four times over seven games. Extremely unlikely. But always possible.

ewing
01-06-2017, 07:57 PM
That is true of all things though. In the history of basketball Dubs/Cavs rematch is about as sure if a thing as we've had in NBA history, behind Russell's Celts winning, Lakers making the Finals and the Bulls winning. Can you think of anything else more certain?

I think both the Lakers and Bulls had much greater challenges. the warriors will smoke the west. the cavs will smoke the east

valade16
01-06-2017, 07:59 PM
Because it's dumb to bet against the odds. But the odds are often wrong. I'm guessing there weren't many takers on sig bets a few months ago that the Cavs would recover from down 3-1 to beat the Warriors. It still happened.

Sports are only unpredictable to a certain extent. There's a lot of things you can't account for. Aside from the obvious one (injuries), you can't necessarily account for unforeseen matchups, unexpected performances (good or bad), positive or negative momentum, emotions, poor officiating, 50/50 balls, etc. All of those things are in play in a given series. And while a seven-game series somewhat diminishes the impact of these unpredictable factors, it doesn't completely eliminate them. If a team plays poorly enough or well enough in a stretch of a few games, they can beat anybody. Would you take Golden State to beat Philly 9 times out of 10, right? Well there's still that one game that Philly would find a way to win. And teams just have to have that 1 game four times over seven games. Extremely unlikely. But always possible.

Can we stop with the philosophical "anything is possible" argument? That's the exact same logic people use when saying they're going to win the lottery. I get that technically anything can happen. Nothing is a 100% certainty.

Now can everyone admit that the Dubs and Cavs are the overwhelming favorites to make the finals?

kdspurman
01-06-2017, 08:03 PM
That is true of all things though. In the history of basketball Dubs/Cavs rematch is about as sure if a thing as we've had in NBA history, behind Russell's Celts winning, Lakers making the Finals and the Bulls winning. Can you think of anything else more certain?

Warriors winning it all last year was more certain probably. I know there were things that happened, but still.

Im not ready to pencil that in, but that's just me. Crazy things can happen

mightybosstone
01-06-2017, 08:10 PM
Can we stop with the philosophical "anything is possible" argument? That's the exact same logic people use when saying they're going to win the lottery. I get that technically anything can happen. Nothing is a 100% certainty.

Now can everyone admit that the Dubs and Cavs are the overwhelming favorites to make the finals?

Whoever said they weren't? But how may times can you point to in the history of sports when the overwhelming favorite didn't make the championship? Dozens? Hundreds? My point isn't that it's likely that the Cavs/Warriors won't happen. Far from it. My point is that the likelihood of that happening doesn't diminish the significance of the rest of the season or the playoffs to me. If we played out 100 seasons and postseasons instead of just 1, the Cavs and Warriors would probably face off 80-90 times out of those 100. But the possibility of the 10-20 other outcomes still makes the rest of the season and postseason significant.

Avenged
01-06-2017, 08:22 PM
I also think it's kind of humorous everyone is like "The Warriors and Cavs can be beaten you never know" then when I offer to bet on it the response is "well I'm not an idiot, no way I'm taking that bet" lol

I guess other teams have a chance due to the principle that something that hasn't happened yet is technically in doubt, but everyone seems fairly certain it's going to happen no matter how much they attempt to convince me (and themselves) otherwise.

I hope either of these teams don't come out in their conference just to prove you wrong. But you're so convinced not even that will make you change your mind :laugh2:

Avenged
01-06-2017, 08:24 PM
I think both the Lakers and Bulls had much greater challenges. the warriors will smoke the west. the cavs will smoke the east

But that Finals matchup is going to be ****ing epic! I am already salivating at the thought of it..

It would blow hard to have this be over quick and/or the majority lopsided games.

valade16
01-06-2017, 08:32 PM
Whoever said they weren't? But how may times can you point to in the history of sports when the overwhelming favorite didn't make the championship? Dozens? Hundreds? My point isn't that it's likely that the Cavs/Warriors won't happen. Far from it. My point is that the likelihood of that happening doesn't diminish the significance of the rest of the season or the playoffs to me. If we played out 100 seasons and postseasons instead of just 1, the Cavs and Warriors would probably face off 80-90 times out of those 100. But the possibility of the 10-20 other outcomes still makes the rest of the season and postseason significant.

I understand that, that "there's still a chance" mentality is why we watch sports and why we love underdogs.

But the enthusiasm wanes the more remote the chances become (though the inevitable high is more euphoric when they do win). 10-20/100 yeah it's pretty awesome to watch, but less people would watch if it were 1/100 shot, and way less if it were a 1 in a million shot.

And how many times in NBA history did the best team not win or make it? How many times in recent memory? In the East the Conference Champion has been:

Bron's Cavs
Bron's Cavs
Bron's Heat
Bron's Heat
Bron's Heat
Bron's Heat

In the West it's been:
Warriors
Warriors
Spurs
Spurs
Thunder


Sorry, but the East has been as anti-climactic as Magic's West was when he went every year. Even the West was Spurs and Dubs the last 4 years and the year before that it was the Thunder whose best player now plays for the Dubs. So even when you say there's a chance the Warriors or Cavs don't go the only team anyone can point to with a realistic shot is the Spurs, which still makes essentially 3 teams that have gone to the Finals the past 5 years: Spurs, Warriors or a LeBron led team.

Saying "anything can happen" is pretty much discounting the last 5 NBA seasons.

valade16
01-06-2017, 08:34 PM
I hope either of these teams don't come out in their conference just to prove you wrong. But you're so convinced not even that will make you change your mind :laugh2:

Want to sig bet on it then?

tredigs
01-06-2017, 09:06 PM
It's telling that I'm arguing with a Dubs fan and a Cavs fan who are saying fans aren't affected by those two teams dominating. Suffice to say I don't think those fan bases aren't getting the same view of the NBA as most lol.

I specifically mentioned Westy's triple double watch as one of the few genuinely intriguing things to watch. I guess I would classify it as more fans are intrigued and excited by the Dubs/Cavs rematch but not really excited by the intrigue of who is going to go to the Finals, because they already know.

If they find other reasons to watch the NBA good for them, I know many who aren't. I don't think it's some problem for the league or bad because 20 years from now the epic rivalry will outlast the temporary storylines of who developed and other teams. Sacrificing parity for historic achievements is not a bad thing.

You can watch Giannis and Embiid games for the excitement of seeing the next big thing but you certainly won't be seeing very good basketball in the here and now since Philly sucks and Milwaukee isn't much better.

Milwaukee is actually improving rapidly - they have a better SRS than OKC (8th best in the NBA) and are improving daily under the leadership of the budding superstar. Giannis is also essentially a perfect prototype of the kind of player who could take down 'Bron once he reaches his prime - which is coming very soon if not already season 1 right now. With their 2nd best player back next year in Middleton (one of the more underrated players league wide), I expect this team to challenge next years Cavs. The fact that he has them playing very solid ball in the early going (though completely under the radar apparently, seeing as the likes of yourself have them near the Sixers level) without Middleton is VERY surprising to me and we should take notice.

As far as me "not understanding your point of view". Lmfao. Suck it, Trebek. I have followed the NBA closely for decades and my favorite team (the Warriors) were often in the bottom 10% of the league, never once having a chance at a title. That's going through the Bulls dominance, the Heat's dominance, and now the Cavs/Warriors dominance. I've found plenty of reasons to watch in all eras, and I consider the game stronger now than ever before.

Avenged
01-06-2017, 09:08 PM
Milwaukee is actually improving rapidly - they have a better SRS than OKC (8th best in the NBA) and are improving daily under the leadership of the budding superstar. Giannis is also essentially a perfect prototype of the kind of player who could take down 'Bron once he reaches his prime - which is coming very soon if not already season 1 right now. With their 2nd best player back next year in Middleton (one of the more underrated players league wide), I expect this team to challenge next years Cavs. The fact that he has them playing very solid ball in the early going (though completely under the radar apparently, seeing as the likes of yourself have them near the Sixers level) without Middleton is VERY surprising to me and we should take notice.

As far as me "not understanding your point of view". Lmfao. Suck it, Trebek. I have followed the NBA closely for decades and my favorite team (the Warriors) were often in the bottom 10% of the league, never once having a chance at a title. That's going through the Bulls dominance, the Heat's dominance, and now the Cavs/Warriors dominance. I've found plenty of reasons to watch in all eras, and I consider the game stronger now than ever before.


I am offended you leave out the Lakers dominance :D

ewing
01-06-2017, 09:15 PM
Milwaukee is actually improving rapidly - they have a better SRS than OKC (8th best in the NBA) and are improving daily under the leadership of the budding superstar. Giannis is also essentially a perfect prototype of the kind of player who could take down 'Bron once he reaches his prime - which is coming very soon if not already season 1 right now. With their 2nd best player back next year in Middleton (one of the more underrated players league wide), I expect this team to challenge next years Cavs. The fact that he has them playing very solid ball in the early going (though completely under the radar apparently, seeing as the likes of yourself have them near the Sixers level) without Middleton is VERY surprising to me and we should take notice.

As far as me "not understanding your point of view". Lmfao. Suck it, Trebek. I have followed the NBA closely for decades and my favorite team (the Warriors) were often in the bottom 10% of the league, never once having a chance at a title. That's going through the Bulls dominance, the Heat's dominance, and now the Cavs/Warriors dominance. I've found plenty of reasons to watch in all eras, and I consider the game stronger now than ever before.

Why wouldn't you? I mean you can watch the Knicks, sixers, .... I watch my Knicks bc I'm genetically bound too and I watch the occasional game around the league. I'm not even considering getting the pass this year. There have been years where I loved the NBA pass


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chronz
01-06-2017, 09:51 PM
Want to sig bet on it then?

LOL. Hes gonna say no and prove you right.

Chronz
01-06-2017, 09:53 PM
Why wouldn't you? I mean you can watch the Knicks, sixers, .... I watch my Knicks bc I'm genetically bound too and I watch the occasional game around the league. I'm not even considering getting the pass this year. There have been years where I loved the NBA pass


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You dont want to watch timely hooping?

tredigs
01-06-2017, 09:53 PM
Why wouldn't you? I mean you can watch the Knicks, sixers, .... I watch my Knicks bc I'm genetically bound too and I watch the occasional game around the league. I'm not even considering getting the pass this year. There have been years where I loved the NBA pass


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't know what to tell ya. You're missing out on some incredibly high level basketball from guys around the league.

On the bright side, at least you're able to watch Giannis eviscerate your Knicks on National TV right now. If that's the only time you see him at least it's looking like a good one.

Chronz
01-06-2017, 09:58 PM
I understand that, that "there's still a chance" mentality is why we watch sports and why we love underdogs.

But the enthusiasm wanes the more remote the chances become (though the inevitable high is more euphoric when they do win). 10-20/100 yeah it's pretty awesome to watch, but less people would watch if it were 1/100 shot, and way less if it were a 1 in a million shot.

And how many times in NBA history did the best team not win or make it? How many times in recent memory? In the East the Conference Champion has been:

Bron's Cavs
Bron's Cavs
Bron's Heat
Bron's Heat
Bron's Heat
Bron's Heat

In the West it's been:
Warriors
Warriors
Spurs
Spurs
Thunder


Sorry, but the East has been as anti-climactic as Magic's West was when he went every year. Even the West was Spurs and Dubs the last 4 years and the year before that it was the Thunder whose best player now plays for the Dubs. So even when you say there's a chance the Warriors or Cavs don't go the only team anyone can point to with a realistic shot is the Spurs, which still makes essentially 3 teams that have gone to the Finals the past 5 years: Spurs, Warriors or a LeBron led team.

Saying "anything can happen" is pretty much discounting the last 5 NBA seasons.

Yeah but when is that year of missing the Finals gonna happen with Bron on a contender the way it did twice for Magic when his teams were upset?

Dubs Im on board with, the talent disparity is such an outlier in their case that they should make it but at the same time they face steeper competition too. I actually hope my Clippers face them in R.1 that way they have a something of a gauntlet. Id gladly sacrifice my team if it means they are worn down more in time for the Rockets in R.2 and Spurs in R3 THEN the Cavs.

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 10:23 PM
I'm not talking about me specifically, it's the NBA fan base at large. I get that you're not as capable of seeing it since you are a fan of the one team that can compete with them. Cavs-Dubs have been the most entertaining series I've seen in a long time I'll say that much, I can't wait until we see the third iteration, I just wish we could skip all this irrelevance to get there

Eh, maybe I'm just a fan of sports. If I had the time I'd be fine with watching the two worst NBA teams play. It may not apply to every fan but I love witnessing all the accolades of other non-contending teams. I love following the rookies and the all stars. The fact the Cavs are a contender is amazing and I'm happy for that but don't assume it's the reason I don't wanna fast forward to the finals.

I watch the NFL religiously and it has absolutely nothing to do with how many contenders there are and everything to do with the fact that I just love football. That's coming from a fan of possibly the worst franchise in all sports in the last 20 years.

Maybe, just maybe more people enjoy watching the game of basketball than you are giving credit for.

ewing
01-06-2017, 10:27 PM
Don't know what to tell ya. You're missing out on some incredibly high level basketball from guys around the league.

On the bright side, at least you're able to watch Giannis eviscerate your Knicks on National TV right now. If that's the only time you see him at least it's looking like a good one.

I'm watching the MSG broadcast.

ewing
01-06-2017, 10:28 PM
You dont want to watch timely hooping?

you have to wait for the finals b/c they rest doesn't matter

Vee-Rex
01-06-2017, 10:29 PM
Don't know what to tell ya. You're missing out on some incredibly high level basketball from guys around the league.

On the bright side, at least you're able to watch Giannis eviscerate your Knicks on National TV right now. If that's the only time you see him at least it's looking like a good one.

:laugh:

FlashBolt
01-06-2017, 10:31 PM
You can't say Valade is wrong here, though. I can't be the only one who has watched the least amount of NBA games this season than I've had the past decade. Part of that in large has to do with what the Warriors couldn't do. The fact they went through a historic season and still lost pretty much established that the regular season is just a way for the NBA and media related companies to generate as much money as possible. Does anyone really think it takes 82 games for people to realize that the Cavs and Warriors are by far better than any other team? The only reason I am even interested in watching any NBA game outside the nationally televised ones (only the competitive teams) is because I want to watch the development of future NBA stars such as Giannis, Embiid, Towns, and Porzingis. I'm happy that NBA is growing at a rapid pace but personally, I haven't enjoyed this season as much as I've had the previous ones.

tredigs
01-06-2017, 10:36 PM
You can't say Valade is wrong here, though. I can't be the only one who has watched the least amount of NBA games this season than I've had the past decade. Part of that in large has to do with what the Warriors couldn't do. The fact they went through a historic season and still lost pretty much established that the regular season is just a way for the NBA and media related companies to generate as much money as possible. Does anyone really think it takes 82 games for people to realize that the Cavs and Warriors are by far better than any other team? The only reason I am even interested in watching any NBA game outside the nationally televised ones (only the competitive teams) is because I want to watch the development of future NBA stars such as Giannis, Embiid, Towns, and Porzingis. I'm happy that NBA is growing at a rapid pace but personally, I haven't enjoyed this season as much as I've had the previous ones.

Well, you're in a unique spot in that you were following a contender but your franchises best All Time player left your team in his prime and took those title hopes with him. I'd probably want to take a year off too.

FlashBolt
01-06-2017, 10:40 PM
That too but KD leaving to any other team not named the Warriors or Cavs and I wouldn't have the same feeling.

Chronz
01-06-2017, 10:49 PM
Im watching less but I've been trending downward for the last 3 years anyways. If not for my need to scratch my gambling itch, I prolly would've declined alot more tho.

Chronz
01-06-2017, 10:53 PM
you have to wait for the finals b/c they rest doesn't matter
They do if the other stars hoop it up at the right time

Avenged
01-06-2017, 11:04 PM
Want to sig bet on it then?

LOL. Hes gonna say no and prove you right.

I've never sigged bet I simply don't care enough if he changes his mind or not. I have ridiculous sigs anyway and my sigs are off :D so I really don't care lol

ewing
01-06-2017, 11:14 PM
They do if the other stars hoop it up at the right time

not when you get smoked which is what is going to happen.

valade16
01-06-2017, 11:17 PM
LOL. Hes gonna say no and prove you right.

:laugh:

For real. Everyone is trying to deny the obvious, the Warriors and Cavs are overwhelming favorites to repeat, he'll they've already faced off the last 2 Finals and people are trying to act like there's more than a remote possibility they won't make it.

D-Leethal
01-07-2017, 12:03 AM
The NBA is trending to the point where 2 teams will keep stacking up to out-do each other while 28 others decide to tank because they have no shot.

I'll blame LeBron - he started this FA superteam mess.

D-Leethal
01-07-2017, 12:08 AM
Big regular season nationally televised matchups definitely lose their luster when you know none of these solid playoff teams have any shot of going anywhere. I don't think I've watched a primetime National TV game all season. Its like watching unranked college teams - you know they are going nowhere when it matters.

IKnowHoops
01-07-2017, 12:14 AM
lets once again thank LeBron for creating this team up mentality that is ruining the league. Why even have a season? Baring injury there are only two teams that can win. Just have them play now.

I remember when the Bulls added Toni Kukoch (before they new Jordan was retiring) right after they convincingly won there 3rd ring in a row, and nobody thought is was a week move. Now the Cavs add a washed up Korver (and they are not the consensus best team in the league like the Bulls were) and everyone is crying.

This adds to my belief of why Lebron is better than Jordan. And by better, I mean more impactful and scarier to face. People just die anytime Lebron gets help. People have seen him get to the finals by himself so they hold it against him when he has a great team around him and wins. Its the same mindset as Durant being added to GS. People say, they "already got to the finals without him...the were the best team without him" so on and so forth. In Bron's case he already got to the finals without anyone, so when he actually gets a team around him, people revert back to that same way of thinking. "He had a good team before, why does he need help, he just couldn't get it done." Its like they hold it against him for willing a bunch of D-leaguers to the finals. But anyway, if you haven't made the connection of why I think Lebron was a more impactful player than Jordan...well people didn't react to Jordan getting more talent on his team, the way they react to Lebron adding a washed up one trick pony to the team. That means that they actually fear Lebron more than they feared Jordan. The Haters that is. Jordan Haters weren't runnin around like "oh sh-- they added kukoc...not fair!!!" But Lebron haters get scared no matter who gets added...the haters don't realize it, but there fear is the highest form of respect...so is there hate. Everyone knows that even though Kyle Korver isn't that great, Lebron will turn him into a nuclear weapon because Lebron is just that good. And thats what you people have to start realizing. Lebron can manipulate the game like no body in history. So many skills, so high IQ, so much power, so much speed, so much size. He can do anything and be anything on a basketball court. He is the GOAT.

Chronz
01-07-2017, 12:24 AM
not when you get smoked which is what is going to happen.

They get smoked because the other star has no timely hooping in him.

Chronz
01-07-2017, 12:25 AM
The NBA is trending to the point where 2 teams will keep stacking up to out-do each other while 28 others decide to tank because they have no shot.

I'll blame LeBron - he started this FA superteam mess.

Yeah, that damn LeBron should've just forced a trade.

Chronz
01-07-2017, 12:32 AM
I remember when the Bulls added Toni Kukoch (before they new Jordan was retiring) right after they convincingly won there 3rd ring in a row, and nobody thought is was a week move. Now the Cavs add a washed up Korver (and they are not the consensus best team in the league like the Bulls were) and everyone is crying.

This adds to my belief of why Lebron is better than Jordan. And by better, I mean more impactful and scarier to face. People just die anytime Lebron gets help. People have seen him get to the finals by himself so they hold it against him when he has a great team around him and wins. Its the same mindset as Durant being added to GS. People say, they "already got to the finals without him...the were the best team without him" so on and so forth. In Bron's case he already got to the finals without anyone, so when he actually gets a team around him, people revert back to that same way of thinking. "He had a good team before, why does he need help, he just couldn't get it done." Its like they hold it against him for willing a bunch of D-leaguers to the finals. But anyway, if you haven't made the connection of why I think Lebron was a more impactful player than Jordan...well people didn't react to Jordan getting more talent on his team, the way they react to Lebron adding a washed up one trick pony to the team. That means that they actually fear Lebron more than they feared Jordan. The Haters that is. Jordan Haters weren't runnin around like "oh sh-- they added kukoc...not fair!!!" But Lebron haters get scared no matter who gets added...the haters don't realize it, but there fear is the highest form of respect...so is there hate. Everyone knows that even though Kyle Korver isn't that great, Lebron will turn him into a nuclear weapon because Lebron is just that good. And thats what you people have to start realizing. Lebron can manipulate the game like no body in history. So many skills, so high IQ, so much power, so much speed, so much size. He can do anything and be anything on a basketball court. He is the GOAT.
Kinda agree, its like they expect Bron to win in fashions we've never seen consistently, like he did last year. I kind of get it, I was the same way when MJ had all that talent, its actually what got me into gambling, seeing my father win year after year knowing no one ever stood a chance. Before my parents split, we used to go out celebrating after every Finals. It was such a foregone conclusion that we would plan it in advance.

But even then, I feel differently about KD to GS simply because hes suppose to be making his own champ, not join the team that won so recently. I was not the least shocked when Vegas had them as such prohibitive favorites to win this year. The opposition does have a point about only 2 contenders tho, simply because never in history has a team been seen as such an overwhelming force that they are left lumping the Cavs in there with GS.
Cavs have the best shot but they are much closer to the norm historically in terms of talent than this GS team. If KD had balls, we would have so many more contenders but because the Dubs are sooooooo talented, we can basically only look to the best player in the game for any hope to topple them, whereas if KD has any man juice in him, we would have like 5 contenders.

Media/Fans havent turned against the Dubs for no reason. Its because they stacked the deck to an unprecedented degree, in the words of their management, "thats the point".

Vee-Rex
01-07-2017, 12:33 AM
I remember when the Bulls added Toni Kukoch (before they new Jordan was retiring) right after they convincingly won there 3rd ring in a row, and nobody thought is was a week move. Now the Cavs add a washed up Korver (and they are not the consensus best team in the league like the Bulls were) and everyone is crying.

This adds to my belief of why Lebron is better than Jordan. And by better, I mean more impactful and scarier to face. People just die anytime Lebron gets help. People have seen him get to the finals by himself so they hold it against him when he has a great team around him and wins. Its the same mindset as Durant being added to GS. People say, they "already got to the finals without him...the were the best team without him" so on and so forth. In Bron's case he already got to the finals without anyone, so when he actually gets a team around him, people revert back to that same way of thinking. "He had a good team before, why does he need help, he just couldn't get it done." Its like they hold it against him for willing a bunch of D-leaguers to the finals. But anyway, if you haven't made the connection of why I think Lebron was a more impactful player than Jordan...well people didn't react to Jordan getting more talent on his team, the way they react to Lebron adding a washed up one trick pony to the team. That means that they actually fear Lebron more than they feared Jordan. The Haters that is. Jordan Haters weren't runnin around like "oh sh-- they added kukoc...not fair!!!" But Lebron haters get scared no matter who gets added...the haters don't realize it, but there fear is the highest form of respect...so is there hate. Everyone knows that even though Kyle Korver isn't that great, Lebron will turn him into a nuclear weapon because Lebron is just that good. And thats what you people have to start realizing. Lebron can manipulate the game like no body in history. So many skills, so high IQ, so much power, so much speed, so much size. He can do anything and be anything on a basketball court. He is the GOAT.

I think a large part of it is Jordan played during a time without social media and the Internet was nowhere near used as much as it is now.

I'm not calling LeBron GOAT but man I wish people appreciated his greatness more.

Chronz
01-07-2017, 12:39 AM
I think a large part of it is Jordan played during a time without social media and the Internet was nowhere near used as much as it is now.

I'm not calling LeBron GOAT but man I wish people appreciated his greatness more.

True, but at the same time theres a reason these Dubs were seen as favorites to win to degrees we've never seen in HISTORY. Not even MJ's Bulls coming off 72 wins+championship were seen as this much of a juggernaut (though maybe they should have been). I just keep thinking back to the lines I saw at a certain somewhere once the story came out that KD joined the Dubs. I had to wait to place a bet, I never do that considering Im kind of a big deal.

Avenged
01-07-2017, 12:40 AM
LOL. Hes gonna say no and prove you right.

:laugh:

For real. Everyone is trying to deny the obvious, the Warriors and Cavs are overwhelming favorites to repeat, he'll they've already faced off the last 2 Finals and people are trying to act like there's more than a remote possibility they won't make it.

Nobody is saying they aren't favorites.. Do you even read what everyone is saying :confused:

Chronz
01-07-2017, 12:43 AM
Nobody is saying they aren't favorites.. Do you even read what everyone is saying :confused:

Do you read what he said?

The whole anything can happen isn't something ANYONE has EVER gone against. We've seen 8th seeds make the Finals, does that mean we ignore the odds? LOL

valade16
01-07-2017, 12:48 AM
Nobody is saying they aren't favorites.. Do you even read what everyone is saying :confused:


Do you read what he said?

The whole anything can happen isn't something ANYONE has EVER gone against. We've seen 8th seeds make the Finals, does that mean we ignore the odds? LOL

So far as I can tell everyone is saying:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM

Vee-Rex
01-07-2017, 12:55 AM
So far as I can tell everyone is saying:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM

You don't think the Spurs have a better than 'remote' shot? I feel like they might be a bit underrated here.

IKnowHoops
01-07-2017, 03:04 AM
Cool dude, so you just don't like the NBA? The Warriors can be beat, as evidenced by last season when everybody said the title was a lock mid-season (granted the Cavs and Spurs were favored pre-season). **** happens. You're probably the same guy who thought nobody could touch the Heat, until they got beat 2/4 seasons.

I personally have Giannis and Embiid as extremely special talents. Never thought the same for KAT, just looks like a promising young big to me. Ditto Porzingis. Both could be special, but with Giannis and Embiid, barring injury, they WILL be special. Giannis is already putting up prime Bird #'s for ****s sake.

I feel you, trust me I feel you, but KAT will be better than both. Barring injury, AD will be the best out of all of them. Barring injury, all are first ballot hall of famers. IMO

GoferKing_
01-07-2017, 08:23 AM
league over cavs dubs final

Nothing new, it was set in stone before the season begun.

ewing
01-07-2017, 08:42 AM
You don't think the Spurs have a better than 'remote' shot? I feel like they might be a bit underrated here.

The Warriors have the best PG n the league, the best shooting guard in the league, the 2nd best SF in the league who is a top 5 player, and an All NBA PF. No they don't have a chance. LMA is a nice player, KL is great, Pau is one of my favorite vets in the league but they will get smoked.

ewing
01-07-2017, 08:59 AM
They get smoked because the other star has no timely hooping in him.

it is important i'll give you that

ewing
01-07-2017, 09:11 AM
I remember when the Bulls added Toni Kukoch (before they new Jordan was retiring) right after they convincingly won there 3rd ring in a row, and nobody thought is was a week move. Now the Cavs add a washed up Korver (and they are not the consensus best team in the league like the Bulls were) and everyone is crying.

This adds to my belief of why Lebron is better than Jordan. And by better, I mean more impactful and scarier to face. People just die anytime Lebron gets help. People have seen him get to the finals by himself so they hold it against him when he has a great team around him and wins. Its the same mindset as Durant being added to GS. People say, they "already got to the finals without him...the were the best team without him" so on and so forth. In Bron's case he already got to the finals without anyone, so when he actually gets a team around him, people revert back to that same way of thinking. "He had a good team before, why does he need help, he just couldn't get it done." Its like they hold it against him for willing a bunch of D-leaguers to the finals. But anyway, if you haven't made the connection of why I think Lebron was a more impactful player than Jordan...well people didn't react to Jordan getting more talent on his team, the way they react to Lebron adding a washed up one trick pony to the team. That means that they actually fear Lebron more than they feared Jordan. The Haters that is. Jordan Haters weren't runnin around like "oh sh-- they added kukoc...not fair!!!" But Lebron haters get scared no matter who gets added...the haters don't realize it, but there fear is the highest form of respect...so is there hate. Everyone knows that even though Kyle Korver isn't that great, Lebron will turn him into a nuclear weapon because Lebron is just that good. And thats what you people have to start realizing. Lebron can manipulate the game like no body in history. So many skills, so high IQ, so much power, so much speed, so much size. He can do anything and be anything on a basketball court. He is the GOAT.

It amazing how bent over he has you. I remember last year at the start of the finals i was one of the only posters here that gave the Cavs a shot and i was told I was trying to set him up b/c the Warriors were unbeatable. They got down in the series and i said they can still make a series of it but LeBron has to sack up and shoot jump shots. I was again told i was a hater b/c i wasn't looking at his across the board numbers. Then he starts taking an making Js. He isnt passive at all. He plays like an all time great and the Cavs win. So I give him credit. He played like an all time great but you would have given him that credit regardless.

D-Leethal
01-07-2017, 10:27 AM
Yeah, that damn LeBron should've just forced a trade.

Best player in the game joining superteam via FA was a bad precedent to set. His idea was to build a team that was lightyears better than the rest of the pack. LeBron all but admitted that was his intention during his victory parade where he claimed 7 chips would be easy. Did it work out the way he thought? No, but that was his intention. KD's intention was to join the best team ever and be lightyears better than the rest of the pack. They are looking for teams with as many max players as they can find.

This is going to happen again, and again, and again. And there will probably only be 2 teams worth mentioning for the forseeable future until the league makes some changes. Those two teams will continue to stack up because the other teams don't see any point in giving up assets for players when they can't compete with those two teams. More teams like Atlanta will have fire sales instead of fighting for a middle-seed in the playoffs. Those fire sales will send more quality players to those two teams at the top, because, those two teams at the top will be the only teams willing to part with assets for quality role players, because they are the only teams with a shot at the end of the season.

It will be two teams and a bunch of tankers. Seeds 5-8 are gonna be fighting with each other NOT to make the playoffs instead of making it. Were already trending in that direction.

D-Leethal
01-07-2017, 10:33 AM
I think our best hope is that after a couple more FAs where max guys go star gazing following the precedent of LeBron and KD, we end up with 4 superteams so at least there is a legit 4 team playoff we can watch. It will get to the point where you have 16-20 all stars on 4 teams and the rest of the league is tanking. Wait til players start taking paycuts or measly 20M/year contracts to join each other in this new bloated cap era.

strahan92osi72
01-07-2017, 10:46 AM
Bron does not seem too enthused by this move, interesting.

Clint Olbrock
01-07-2017, 11:48 AM
Bron does not seem too enthused by this move, interesting.

How do you figure?

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/cavaliers-verge-acquiring-kyle-korver-lebron-james-pg/story?id=44612072

"It'll be good for our team," James said. "Got to get him the ball. It adds another dynamic piece to our team. Hell of a sharpshooter and just a great guy. Great professional, as you've seen over his career, so once he gets here, we'll be happy to have him."

"We're going to get him the ball," James said. "He's on the floor for a reason, and we're going to get it to him."

Miltstar
01-07-2017, 12:22 PM
I'm not calling LeBron GOAT but man I wish people appreciated his greatness more.

If he only realized he was great on his own and he didn't try so hard to chase Jordan I think a lot more people would show him respect

Clint Olbrock
01-07-2017, 03:00 PM
Trade call is in and deal finalized.

Cleveland Cavaliers have acquired guard Kyle Korver from the Atlanta Hawks in exchange for guard/forward Mike Dunleavy, guard Mo Williams, cash considerations and Cleveland's 2019 protected first-round draft pick.

Wow, what a steal.

kdspurman
01-07-2017, 03:13 PM
The Warriors have the best PG n the league, the best shooting guard in the league, the 2nd best SF in the league who is a top 5 player, and an All NBA PF. No they don't have a chance. LMA is a nice player, KL is great, Pau is one of my favorite vets in the league but they will get smoked.

Smoked? Doubtful. All that stuff doesn't matter. It's about who plays better at the right time. Super teams have been beaten before.

nastynice
01-07-2017, 03:36 PM
I think a large part of it is Jordan played during a time without social media and the Internet was nowhere near used as much as it is now.

I'm not calling LeBron GOAT but man I wish people appreciated his greatness more.

Bro, that's exactly what it is. There were haters, but not the way there is today with lebron and dubs. Even a while back with Kobe. Haters have reached new heights, and that envelope always seems to be getting pushed more and more

Completely agreed about people not appreciating greatness. I always tell lebron haters and patriots haters, watch, THESE are the guys in 20 years you're gonna look back and think damn, I was so lucky to be able to see those guys real time.

Speaking of which, Pats is another team I have to watch play. It's just unreal what they've been doing, so great for so long

ewing
01-07-2017, 03:36 PM
Smoked? Doubtful. All that stuff doesn't matter. It's about who plays better at the right time. Super teams have been beaten before.

sorry homes. talent and youth wins. what's Tony using to hold his hamstring together these days? :)

nastynice
01-07-2017, 03:44 PM
You don't think the Spurs have a better than 'remote' shot? I feel like they might be a bit underrated here.

Yea, if the playoffs started today, I'm not sure how confident I'd be about them coming out the west. The record looks decent, but that kind of covers how bad this team is actually playing.

Warriors got a LONG way to go, the offense is flat out lost at times

I think these games, the blown 24pt lead vs the grizz, blown 4th q vs the cavs, these are probably the best thing to happen to us, we need a few more of these type of games still

Nobody knows who's in charge at crunch time, KD and curry need to address that asap

valade16
01-07-2017, 03:56 PM
Smoked? Doubtful. All that stuff doesn't matter. It's about who plays better at the right time. Super teams have been beaten before.

One more time,

https://youtu.be/zMRrNY0pxfM

kdspurman
01-07-2017, 03:59 PM
sorry homes. talent and youth wins. what's Tony using to hold his hamstring together these days? :)

Except it doesn't. "older" teams have won more in recent years than the young teams. All that stuff means squat anyway if those guys crap the bed in the playoffs. Which is not something that's impossible, we've seen it happen

And idk, but if you've paid attention to him, he's been balking lately. Whatever he's doing, I hope he keeps doing it :) his hammy hasn't been an issue for some time now.

kdspurman
01-07-2017, 04:00 PM
One more time,

https://youtu.be/zMRrNY0pxfM

Most definitely. I just wouldn't go as far as 1 in a million.

valade16
01-07-2017, 04:33 PM
Most definitely. I just wouldn't go as far as 1 in a million.

Lol, fair enough.

ewing
01-07-2017, 05:05 PM
Except it doesn't. "older" teams have won more in recent years than the young teams. All that stuff means squat anyway if those guys crap the bed in the playoffs. Which is not something that's impossible, we've seen it happen

And idk, but if you've paid attention to him, he's been balking lately. Whatever he's doing, I hope he keeps doing it :) his hammy hasn't been an issue for some time now.

his hamstring is an issue at the end of every season. if they win i'll give the props they deserve. I don't see it happening.

GodsSon
01-07-2017, 08:59 PM
Smoked? Doubtful. All that stuff doesn't matter. It's about who plays better at the right time. Super teams have been beaten before.

I have the Spurs "upsetting" the Warriors in the WCF.

LMA, Pau, Dedmon and Lee are going to cause a lot of problems for the W's front-court. They're going to clean up on the boards.

The only thing in the way is if the Spurs lose to the Rox in the 2nd round (don't think so, but I could see an upset).

kdspurman
01-07-2017, 09:51 PM
I have the Spurs "upsetting" the Warriors in the WCF.

LMA, Pau, Dedmon and Lee are going to cause a lot of problems for the W's front-court. They're going to clean up on the boards.

The only thing in the way is if the Spurs lose to the Rox in the 2nd round (don't think so, but I could see an upset).

It's certainly a possibility, we'll just have to wait and see. We def have some advantages, so it'll be interesting if it happens.

The rockets are interesting, but I feel like their lack of D will eventually haunt them come playoff time.I worry more about the Clips matchup, but they've got their own issues now

IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 02:43 AM
I think you might have the 'hopelessness-syndrome' during this regular season, bud. No worries, we all go through those moments with this Warriors team. :D

This Warriors team is different for sure from the last two seasons, but the playoffs is still another thing altogether. Even if the Warriors win the title as long as they face the Spurs/Cavs we'll probably be in for a really entertaining series. They're an extraordinary team... it's easier to appreciate the challenge of trying to topple them in a 'them vs. the field' sort of way.

Thats 100

IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 03:05 AM
Yeah but when is that year of missing the Finals gonna happen with Bron on a contender the way it did twice for Magic when his teams were upset?

Dubs Im on board with, the talent disparity is such an outlier in their case that they should make it but at the same time they face steeper competition too. I actually hope my Clippers face them in R.1 that way they have a something of a gauntlet. Id gladly sacrifice my team if it means they are worn down more in time for the Rockets in R.2 and Spurs in R3 THEN the Cavs.

And this is what the season is about. Its not a dream/conventional/fairytale season in which 16 teams have a legit shot to win...sorry, but dang, try being a Wolves fan or a Sixers fan and stay true to that. Y'all crying and uninterested cause you know your for sure gonna loose in the eastern conference finals...SMH. This is about the most talented team in history, trying to go through an almost impossible gauntlet to win the title that they should win. I'm excited.

IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 04:25 AM
It amazing how bent over he has you. I remember last year at the start of the finals i was one of the only posters here that gave the Cavs a shot and i was told I was trying to set him up b/c the Warriors were unbeatable. They got down in the series and i said they can still make a series of it but LeBron has to sack up and shoot jump shots. I was again told i was a hater b/c i wasn't looking at his across the board numbers. Then he starts taking an making Js. He isnt passive at all. He plays like an all time great and the Cavs win. So I give him credit. He played like an all time great but you would have given him that credit regardless.

Like Pilgrim always says...he's not any better than he was before he balled out in that game. Thats what you don't get. He is what he is, he puts up monster games his whole career. The question has been the talent around him. Its there so he won. Yes I would of given him credit before the game. But he didn't gain any credit from me after the game. He was already that.

ewing
01-08-2017, 10:59 AM
Like Pilgrim always says...he's not any better than he was before he balled out in that game. Thats what you don't get. He is what he is, he puts up monster games his whole career. The question has been the talent around him. Its there so he won. Yes I would of given him credit before the game. But he didn't gain any credit from me after the game. He was already that.

like i said you love his dick so it doesn't matter what he does.

ewing
01-08-2017, 11:11 AM
[QUOTE=ewing;Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 02:38 PM
like i said you love his dick so it doesn't matter what he does.

I absolutely love when you cower for some reason.

ewing
01-08-2017, 02:49 PM
I absolutely love when you cower for some reason.

What??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

valade16
01-08-2017, 03:09 PM
Like Pilgrim always says...he's not any better than he was before he balled out in that game. Thats what you don't get. He is what he is, he puts up monster games his whole career. The question has been the talent around him. Its there so he won. Yes I would of given him credit before the game. But he didn't gain any credit from me after the game. He was already that.

What's funny is how much history repeats itself and how much younger people forget the past.

Listen to this narrative: younger player comes in and becomes easily the best player in the league and one of the best ever but everyone rips him because he can't win even though he's facing far deeper and more talented tea,s. He then gets sufficient help and wins several titles and people praise him as amazing and fear him.

To you that's LeBron James, but that was the exact narrative for Michael Jordan too.

Having seen both I can say with certainty teams were more scared to face Michael Jordan than LeBron, and that's not from a LeBron hater, I think in terms of talent he's the 2nd best ever behind MJ.

When it was a foregone conclusion LeBron was going to win with the Heat he went 2/4, when it was a foregone conclusion MJ was going to win he went 6/6 (and trust me, it was a foregone conclusion). The reason nobody was talking about the Bulls getting Kukoc like people are talking about LeBron getting Korver is because it really didn't matter who they added or didn't add, so long as they had MJ (and Scottie) they were a lock to win.

IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 05:12 PM
What's funny is how much history repeats itself and how much younger people forget the past.

Listen to this narrative: younger player comes in and becomes easily the best player in the league and one of the best ever but everyone rips him because he can't win even though he's facing far deeper and more talented tea,s. He then gets sufficient help and wins several titles and people praise him as amazing and fear him.

To you that's LeBron James, but that was the exact narrative for Michael Jordan too.

Having seen both I can say with certainty teams were more scared to face Michael Jordan than LeBron, and that's not from a LeBron hater, I think in terms of talent he's the 2nd best ever behind MJ.

When it was a foregone conclusion LeBron was going to win with the Heat he went 2/4, when it was a foregone conclusion MJ was going to win he went 6/6 (and trust me, it was a foregone conclusion). The reason nobody was talking about the Bulls getting Kukoc like people are talking about LeBron getting Korver is because it really didn't matter who they added or didn't add, so long as they had MJ (and Scottie) they were a lock to win.

I watched both Jordan and Bron. I think people were more afraid to face the Bulls than they are facing Cleveland..Phil + Scottie + Mike but when it comes to actually being on the court with Lebron and Mike, I feel Lebron the individual scares players more than Jordan the individual...mainly because of physicality

valade16
01-08-2017, 05:14 PM
I watched both Jordan and Bron. I think people were more afraid to face the Bulls than they are facing Cleveland..Phil + Scottie + Mike but when it comes to actually being on the court with Lebron and Mike, I feel Lebron the individual scares players more than Jordan the individual...mainly because of physicality

Nah, at the end of the game? They were more terrified of MJ. He had a killer instinct

IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 05:15 PM
What??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was a throw in the towel statement by you that is code for "I hate Lebron...whaaaaaaaaaa"

IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 05:18 PM
Nah, at the end of the game? They were more terrified of MJ. He had a killer instinct

I'd agree
First 43 Lebron
Last 5 Mike

kdspurman
01-08-2017, 05:27 PM
What's funny is how much history repeats itself and how much younger people forget the past.

Listen to this narrative: younger player comes in and becomes easily the best player in the league and one of the best ever but everyone rips him because he can't win even though he's facing far deeper and more talented tea,s. He then gets sufficient help and wins several titles and people praise him as amazing and fear him.

To you that's LeBron James, but that was the exact narrative for Michael Jordan too.

Having seen both I can say with certainty teams were more scared to face Michael Jordan than LeBron, and that's not from a LeBron hater, I think in terms of talent he's the 2nd best ever behind MJ.

When it was a foregone conclusion LeBron was going to win with the Heat he went 2/4, when it was a foregone conclusion MJ was going to win he went 6/6 (and trust me, it was a foregone conclusion). The reason nobody was talking about the Bulls getting Kukoc like people are talking about LeBron getting Korver is because it really didn't matter who they added or didn't add, so long as they had MJ (and Scottie) they were a lock to win.

Agreed with all of this.

ewing
01-08-2017, 06:38 PM
That was a throw in the towel statement by you that is code for "I hate Lebron...whaaaaaaaaaa"

I don't hate Lebron. I root against him but when he is great I give him credit for being great. I think he has been great the last two NBA finals. He was passive to start the series last year. He was passing on Js he has to take and driving solely to pass at times. If he finished that way I would have called him on it. You would have blamed his teammates for any failing. You admitted as much


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IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 07:57 PM
I don't hate Lebron. I root against him but when he is great I give him credit for being great. I think he has been great the last two NBA finals. He was passive to start the series last year. He was passing on Js he has to take and driving solely to pass at times. If he finished that way I would have called him on it. You would have blamed his teammates for any failing. You admitted as much


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All I'm saying is, his game is what it is at this point bro. Don't see why its hard for you to understand that he didn't get any better by winning the ring. Its a team game. The team in totality was talented enough to win the ring. Jordans best years in the NBA weren't when he won rings. Was he sh-- for not winning, and you would only acknowledge his greatness once he won a ring? How idiotic is that? So your hating, and I am using logic. If you didn't think Jordan was the most amazing player in the league before he won a ring, then you are very slow.

ewing
01-08-2017, 08:39 PM
All I'm saying is, his game is what it is at this point bro. Don't see why its hard for you to understand that he didn't get any better by winning the ring. Its a team game. The team in totality was talented enough to win the ring. Jordans best years in the NBA weren't when he won rings. Was he sh-- for not winning, and you would only acknowledge his greatness once he won a ring? How idiotic is that? So your hating, and I am using logic. If you didn't think Jordan was the most amazing player in the league before he won a ring, then you are very slow.

Yes I think how he plays on the biggest stage matters and I actually base my judgements on how he plays. in the post you quoted I gave him credit in a series he lost bc of how he played. You just love him sooooo much that it doesn't matter how he plays. You're in love. if he fails in anyway it is someone else's fault


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IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 08:52 PM
Yes I think how he plays on the biggest stage matters and I actually base my judgements on how he plays. in the post you quoted I gave him credit in a series he lost bc of how he played. You just love him sooooo much that it doesn't matter how he plays.


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1+1=2 in my book. If you have played great and amazing basketball for 12 years straight, and you already lead or are close to being number 1 in NBA history in Winshares, and soon to be #1 in points, I don't need to give props to Lebron when he wins and then take away props when he looses. Thats stupid. There is nothing left to prove, and nowhere to go but up. He's just stacking accolades at this point and will soon be the all time leader in more things than anybody in NBA history. Trends are real, and the trend of Lebron breaking records are going to be crazy and never before seen.

ewing
01-08-2017, 09:07 PM
1+1=2 in my book. If you have played great and amazing basketball for 12 years straight, and you already lead or are close to being number 1 in NBA history in Winshares, and soon to be #1 in points, I don't need to give props to Lebron when he wins and then take away props when he looses. Thats stupid. There is nothing left to prove, and nowhere to go but up. He's just stacking accolades at this point and will soon be the all time leader in more things than anybody in NBA history. Trends are real, and the trend of Lebron breaking records are going to be crazy and never before seen.

You can't write a book


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IKnowHoops
01-08-2017, 09:20 PM
You can't write a book


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I love when you cower

ewing
01-08-2017, 09:36 PM
I love when you cower

Sorry dude your thoughts are not worthy of mass production


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Vee-Rex
01-08-2017, 10:29 PM
Come on kiss and make up

IKnowHoops
01-09-2017, 12:32 AM
Sorry dude your thoughts are not worthy of mass production


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So you needed Jordan to win a ring before you knew he was the best in the league? Hating is just so pitifully pathetic.

ewing
01-09-2017, 07:12 AM
So you needed Jordan to win a ring before you knew he was the best in the league? Hating is just so pitifully pathetic.

You are not making any sense. I gave Bron credit for the way he played both in a winning and losing effort. You responded with he so great it doesn't matter what does on the court. If he ever fails it bc of his help. He has had a great career. He is an all time player but we still have conversations like who would you take first Timmy or Bron etc He is great. He is not infallible . you are just a fan boy and you are not even good at that


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FlashBolt
01-09-2017, 02:21 PM
Hoops is right. LeBron has nothing to prove at this point. Right now, it's all about whether or not he'll win another ring. But on a more magnified level, there is nothing LeBron can do at this part of his career that would make him a better basketball player. His level of playing basketball is up there with any all-time great. Winning a ring doesn't change anything at this point. It would be nice for barbershop talk but realistically, I think we all know LeBron wanting to win more rings has more to do with him trying to satisfy the narrative of the media rather than for his own greatness.

Ewing is incredibly baised when it comes to LeBron. Hoops is as well but Ewing has the most ludicrous arguments against LeBron that makes you believe he's the son of Skip Bayless.

At the end of the day, (someone double check) during their six rings, Jordan didn't lead his team in rebounding, assits, steals, blocks, or defense. In fact, if you just compare Jordan with Pippen, Jordan only led the team in points. You can't possibly say Jordan defeated insanely great teams because he didn't. (*go watch Chris Broussard destroy Skip in Undisputed episode January 3, 2017.) Lakers were clearly not the same caliber. Sonics were a good team but none would say they were all-time greats. Suns were probably the best team they played against in terms of depth. Blazers had no shot. Drexler was their best player and he was just barely better than the Pips so how the hell were they going to beat Jordan and the Bulls? Don't get me wrong, Jordan is an all-time great but 6-6 in the Finals is vastly overrated when you consider that Jordan had the best team in the NBA by far. He played with two all-time HOF's -- both who are legitimately the best perimeter defenders. Rodman was Tristan Thompson on steroids with the rebounding. Pippen held his own. Jordan leaves, they lose two less games and a blown call away from the ECF. I won't attest to Phil's coaching as I think it is also overrated but he's certainly a top ten all-time coach. Do people even consider that in 97-98, Bulls were 62-20 but dig deeper and you'll see that without Pippen, they were 26-12 and with Pippen, they were 36-8? Jordan is the GOAT. No one is disputing that. But he can't walk on water. And everyone keeps saying LeBron team and this or that but Heat became a total dumpster after he left. Cleveland was and are a dumpster when LeBron doesn't play. 4-18 record when LeBron has sat out.. The only slight against LeBron for me has always been against the Mavericks. If I have to put him below Jordan because of that, I will. But you cannot argue that any other player has had a more successful career than LeBron in that six year stretch. He's been absolutely amazing since that Mavericks series.

FlashBolt
01-09-2017, 02:30 PM
@Ewing in giving LeBron credit regardless if he beat the Warriors or not.

I can't find one person who was giving LeBron credit. He wasn't his games 5-7 level of greatness but Warriors were overwhelming favorites on most ballots. Cavs were expected to lose. Only a few individuals in this forum and media gave them a shot. I had the Warriors winning in six games strictly because Love was still struggling and I never knew Kyrie had it in him to destroy the Warriors. In hindsight, no one expected Curry to shrivel up and that the Warriors would succumb to the Cavs the way they did. They were 73-9 coming back from 1-3 against the Warriors while people downplayed how good the Cavs were because they beat the weak East. Stuff happens. Cavs won and the majority expected them to lose. END OF STORY. LeBron in 2015 deserved a massive amount of credit and should have won the Finals MVP. Yet, he was not given credit for that performance and was rewarded the stupid label of 3-4 in the Finals.

valade16
01-09-2017, 02:48 PM
Hoops is right. LeBron has nothing to prove at this point. Right now, it's all about whether or not he'll win another ring. But on a more magnified level, there is nothing LeBron can do at this part of his career that would make him a better basketball player. His level of playing basketball is up there with any all-time great. Winning a ring doesn't change anything at this point. It would be nice for barbershop talk but realistically, I think we all know LeBron wanting to win more rings has more to do with him trying to satisfy the narrative of the media rather than for his own greatness.

Ewing is incredibly baised when it comes to LeBron. Hoops is as well but Ewing has the most ludicrous arguments against LeBron that makes you believe he's the son of Skip Bayless.

At the end of the day, (someone double check) during their six rings, Jordan didn't lead his team in rebounding, assits, steals, blocks, or defense. In fact, if you just compare Jordan with Pippen, Jordan only led the team in points. You can't possibly say Jordan defeated insanely great teams because he didn't. (*go watch Chris Broussard destroy Skip in Undisputed episode January 3, 2017.) Lakers were clearly not the same caliber. Sonics were a good team but none would say they were all-time greats. Suns were probably the best team they played against in terms of depth. Blazers had no shot. Drexler was their best player and he was just barely better than the Pips so how the hell were they going to beat Jordan and the Bulls? Don't get me wrong, Jordan is an all-time great but 6-6 in the Finals is vastly overrated when you consider that Jordan had the best team in the NBA by far. He played with two all-time HOF's -- both who are legitimately the best perimeter defenders. Rodman was Tristan Thompson on steroids with the rebounding. Pippen held his own. Jordan leaves, they lose two less games and a blown call away from the ECF. I won't attest to Phil's coaching as I think it is also overrated but he's certainly a top ten all-time coach. Do people even consider that in 97-98, Bulls were 62-20 but dig deeper and you'll see that without Pippen, they were 26-12 and with Pippen, they were 36-8? Jordan is the GOAT. No one is disputing that. But he can't walk on water. And everyone keeps saying LeBron team and this or that but Heat became a total dumpster after he left. Cleveland was and are a dumpster when LeBron doesn't play. 4-18 record when LeBron has sat out.. The only slight against LeBron for me has always been against the Mavericks. If I have to put him below Jordan because of that, I will. But you cannot argue that any other player has had a more successful career than LeBron in that six year stretch. He's been absolutely amazing since that Mavericks series.

First I disagree that more rings won't matter for LeBron. Look at Tim Duncan, he was usually ranked at the back end of the top 10 and he won another ring at the end of his career and now people have him close to the top 5. That last rung clearly boosted Duncan's legacy and any ring will only help LeBron's.

Second, here is the SRS if the teams both Bron and James faced in the Finals:

Bron
Beat Warriors 10.38
Lost to Warriors 10.01
Lost to Spurs 8.00
Beat Spurs 6.67
Beat Thunder 6.04
Lost to Mavs 4.41
Lost to Spurs 8.35

MJ
Beat Jazz 5.73
Beat Jazz 7.97
Beat Sonics 7.40
Beat Suns 6.27
Beat Blazers 6.94
Beat Magic 6.73

With the exception of the Warriors who MJ never had to face a team of that caliber in the Finals, Bron hasn't beat teams any tougher than the ones MJ beat.

In terms of toughest teams beaten it's Bron, MJ, MJ, MJ, MJ, Bron, MJ, Bron, MJ. So you can't really knock the Lakers, Sonics, Blazers, etc. since they were better than every team Bron beat but the Warriors.

And of course as you admit MJ had no clunkers vs a team like the Mavs. In fact if you look at the teams he lost to in the playoffs:

Magic 6.44
Pistons 5.41
Pistons 6.24
Pistons 5.46
Celtics 6.57
Celtics 9.06
Bucks 6.69

So MJ never lost to a team as statistically bad as the Mavs ever in the playoffs. And Bron did it in the Finals with a super team.

I give Bron all the credit in the world for beating the Warriors (it's why I have him #2 behind MJ).

FlashBolt
01-09-2017, 03:30 PM
SRS doesn't really depict how great a team is.. you can't numerically do that so it's just a bunch of number geeks who are paid to create nothing out of something.

Second, on a pure basketball discussion, I don't think LeBron needs a ring to solidify how great he is. Yes, he can win another ring or two but we already know how GREAT he is. He's proved it. Winning more rings at this point is just a story to tell and that's what makes LeBron's career so exciting. He's had a remarkable story through his career.

As for the Mavs series, yes, that's truly the only blemish on Bron's career.

But I'll play your SRS game.
Year: LeBron's team/Opposing Final's team SRS
2010-2011: 6.76/4.41= 2.35 net
2011-2012: 5.72/6.44 (You put 6.04 for OKC in your post above). = -.72 net
2012-2013: 7.03/6.67= .36 net
2013-2014: 4.15/8 (That Heat team was better than the Mavs 4.41 team but Mavs ranked higher in terms of SRS.)= -3.85 net
2014-2015:4.08/10.01= -5.93 net
2015-2016:5.45/10.38= -4.93 net


Let's look at Jordan's for those six NBA Finals.
90-91: 8.57/6.73= 1.84 net
91-92: 10.07/6.94= 3.13 net
92-93: 6.19/6.27= -.08 net
95-96: 11.80/7.40= 4.40 net
96-97: 10.70/7.97= 2.73 net
97-98: 7.24/5.73= 1.51 net

So when you use context and compare the teams of BOTH players and their SRS (something I don't want to use but since you insisted), you'll see that LeBron's teams the past six seasons had a higher SRS for only two matchups. One of them was a .36 net rating difference so if you want to be technical and realistic, there was only one season out of the past six in which LeBron's team had a higher SRS rating than the opposing Finals team.

Look at Jordan's now.
At 92-93, you'll see that it is a -.08 difference -- the only negative SRS disadvantage Jordan's team had against an opposing Finals team. It's literally less than 1/10th so for technicality purposes, let's assume they were even. Now, that means Jordan's six teams had a higher SRS than five of those Finals teams and was even with one.

So following your SRS argument, RELATIVE to the competition, Jordan's team were by far better than the opposing team compared to LeBron's teams.

FlashBolt
01-09-2017, 03:34 PM
And just in case you want to use Jordan as the reason his team had a higher SRS, it wasn't the case before Pippen finally bloomed or before Pippen got there. His SRS was lower than when LeBron was stuck for the dreadful Cavs. Statistically, Jordan's best years were before he won the rings up until their first threepeat. Jordan's final threepeat wasn't statistically legendary. Yet, the highest SRS for Jordan's teams were in the final threepeat. Wonder why O.O